Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[mimionthebeach]

Why bother having a wedding registry if they didn't plan on sticking around?

Cause the TTH hadn't been restocked since TLC built it?

[Sew Sumi]

A friend went looking, and Jill is no longer listed as a student midwife in AR. I guess she's finishing her training, such as it is, in Guatemala. That's why Derick can call her a future CPM,a title she isn't qualified to have in the States.

[Sew Sumi]

A friend went looking, and Jill is no longer listed as a student midwife in AR. I guess she's finishing her training, such as it is, in Guatemala. That's why Derick can call her a future CPM,a title she isn't qualified to have in the States.

[BitterApple]

Why bother having a wedding registry if they didn't plan on sticking around?

Probably to restock the TTH. She had multiples of everything on her registry including dozens of sets of towels.

The birth episode was so highly edited and sanitized nobody is sure what went down. I'm willing to give the midwife the benefit of the doubt because I can see a know-it-all like Jill hemorrhaging out before she admits she doesn't know what the hell she's doing.

Edited September 11, 2015 by BitterApple

[Guest]

A friend went looking, and Jill is no longer listed as a student midwife in AR. I guess she's finishing her training, such as it is, in Guatemala. That's why Derick can call her a future CPM,a title she isn't qualified to have in the States.

 

So, she is being certified in Guatemala, not the United States? Very interesting. Way to leave out an important piece of information, Derick. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by Guest

[BitterApple]

How can she get certified in Guatemala when she can't even speak fluent Spanish? I'm wondering if this is just another angle to solicit donations.

[Guest]

How can she get certified in Guatemala when she can't even speak fluent Spanish? I'm wondering if this is just another angle to solicit donations.

 

I'm confused, too. I can't decide if they are being intentionally evasive to hide something or if they are just so tone deaf that it appears that way. 

[Fuzzysox]

How does this being a missionary thing pay? 

[Patricia07]

Probably to restock the TTH. She had multiples of everything on her registry including dozens of sets of towels.

The birth episode was so highly edited and sanitized nobody is sure what went down. I'm willing to give the midwife the benefit of the doubt because I can see a know-it-all like Jill hemorrhaging out before she admits she doesn't know what the hell she's doing.

 

I'd like to know what that Dr. said to Jill off-camera.

[GeeGolly]

I guess she can go here:

 

http://www.faithinpractice.org/article/saving-lives-felicity-thompson-and-midwife-training

[Churchhoney]

A friend went looking, and Jill is no longer listed as a student midwife in AR. I guess she's finishing her training, such as it is, in Guatemala. That's why Derick can call her a future CPM,a title she isn't qualified to have in the States.

 

Well, according to this NARM document -- http://narm.org/entry-level-applicants/  -- it looks to me as if you can get the required training and experience without being on a specific state registry and then you could later present your earned credential to states you wanted to practice in and be registered by them then.

 

The training and experience NARM lists is on a generalized, national model, I think, and just requires you to get preceptors who meet the national NARM standards. So being off the Arkansas list doesn't necessarily mean she wouldn't be pursuing the training. ... She could certainly start it now, without being on any official Arkansas list, as long as she found a trainer who met their standards, I think. No way she can do it in a month, though, so she's either planning to get all her training in Central America (do we know it's Guatemala?) or do some of her clinical observation and so on in Arkansas and then finish it in C.A.

 

I was reading a little about Guatemala, and their big midwife tradition seems to be very much related to Mayan culture. Don't know how Jill would relate to folks closely involved in a strong cultural tradition that's not part of Protestantism. My Google perusal also suggests that it would also be pretty strange for a U.S. midwife to go to practice in Central America without having completed trainings and certifications here. No surprise, of course. But I really wonder about the details of what she has in mind. Or whether this is just the usual Duggar pie-in-the-sky, pretend-professional fantasy nonsense that they so often engage in.

[LilyoftheValley]

Why on earth would anyone go on a mission to a country that is so Christian it's name is essentially "Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Savior".  I really want these two to grow some balls and try and convert ISIS.  What are they afraid of?  They have been very clear that God loves them more than anyone.  

[JoanArc]

The media needs to pick up on the midwife thing, especilly with the Scam-ards getting more scrutiny now.

[Sew Sumi]

Interesting if Jill is going that route. She and Jana were both on the student list last year. IIRC, they were due to re up last fall, but didn't.

They seem to split their time between Guatemala and El Salvador, with occasional side trips to Honduras. I have no idea how her licensure would work.

[Churchhoney]

I guess she can go here:

 

http://www.faithinpractice.org/article/saving-lives-felicity-thompson-and-midwife-training

 

I suppose. But from stuff I read, I expect that that's intended to be training for locals, who have already spent years participating in the local midwifing activities in their communities. I wonder whether somebody from outside that tradition would be welcome or would even have the background needed to do the program.

 

It's all so mysterious and, as usual, so lacking in detail that it makes me suspicious.

[doodlebug]

I guess she can go here:

 

http://www.faithinpractice.org/article/saving-lives-felicity-thompson-and-midwife-training

I don't think she is qualified.  It appears that this program uses actual NURSE midwives and physicians to help train the locals in providing prenatal care and doing deliveries.  In my experience, developing nations often have prenatal care and delivery performed by practitioners with a year or two of training, sort of like EMT's.  They are called to perform home births and, by necessity, their training is just the basics.  If they encounter a complicated situation, they either have to try to get the woman to a hospital or wing it themselves.  This program, which sounds like a great idea to me, allows these minimally trained practitioners to get further training in handling unusual situations and emergencies which is a great thing. I worked a bit with some of these practitioners in Peru and found them to be devoted to their patient who are, after all their neighbors and friends, and eager to learn more. I had one follow me around for two days asking question after question and taking notes.  Jill doesn't have the training, experience or intellectual curiosity to do this sort of thing. IMO.

[Sew Sumi]

Oh, I am SUPER dubious about Derick's claim. I really hope people aren't harmed by what we've already seen as her poor decision making skills.

[LilyoftheValley]

Jill, a woman with a GED and the equivalent of an eighth grade education, has absolutely no business working as a medical professional.  There is not a single person from the Duggar family who is qualified to regularly have the lives of two people in their hands.  First of all, just by watching the show you can see the low level of judgment they all possess, but more importantly the delivery of babies is just too potentially dangerous for mother and child to not have someone qualified there.  I have absolutely nothing against a midwife, but she or he must be an actual nurse practitioner with a real education in medicine, not some homefooling product who never had to study for a test in her entire educational experience.  Jill Duggar thinks she is smart, educated and qualified to to make life and death medical decisions because she has absolutely nothing else to compare it to.  She has never gotten a rigorous classroom experience where she truly had to learn something.  She really needs to sit in on an obstetrics course at a nursing college to see what it really takes to be qualified and educated in that field.  

 

Most of you here understand what I am talking about.  Recall those screw-off classes we had in high school?  That is every single class any Duggar child ever took.  They required minimal effort and you never had to apply yourself.  Now remember that class in college or grad school or law school where you really had to learn all of the subject matter from the entire course for one huge exam?  This is what no one in the fundie cult knows about a truly great education.  To experience that you have to study 12 hours a day for a week straight and still not pull an A.   

 

Now I wonder if the reason none of the Duggar girls have actually become midwives is because their coursework finally did hit the point where they were really going to have to learn some complicated subject matter which required full concentration and dedication.  I mean hasn't Jana been at this for like eight years?  Why does she not have her own little practice?  

[Churchhoney]

Oh, I am SUPER dubious about Derick's claim. I really hope people aren't harmed by what we've already seen as her poor decision making skills.

 

I feel kind of hopeful, since I have a feeling that most folks in Central America are going to be less likely to trust a random, questionably trained U.S. "missionary" to care for them than a bunch of disgruntled, uneducated Arkansas super-fundies would be. In C.A., I expect people will actually be interested in getting good care rather than in rebelling against the ebil librul medical establishment, which I think would probably be Jill's main appeal to people who'd seek out her "care" in the U.S.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Guest]

I mean hasn't Jana been at this for like eight years?  Why does she not have her own little practice?  

 

Jana wasn't pursuing midwifery. She did some doula work simply because Jill needed an accountability buddy. I'm sure that she quit as soon as Jill no longer needed a buddy since she freely admitted that it "scares" her to be involved in these types of life and death situations. 

 

Unlike Jill and many of the Duggars, I think Jana knows what she doesn't know and she doesn't trust herself to be a medical authority in any situation. I hope Jill develops the same kind of self-awareness when it comes to admitting that you are out of your depth. 

[LilyoftheValley]

Jana wasn't pursuing midwifery. She did some doula work simply because Jill needed an accountability buddy. I'm sure that she quit as soon as Jill no longer needed a buddy since she freely admitted that it "scares" her to be involved in these types of life and death situations. 

 

Unlike Jill and many of the Duggars, I think Jana knows what she doesn't know and she doesn't trust herself to be a medical authority in any situation. I hope Jill develops the same kind of self-awareness when it comes to admitting that you are out of your depth. 

I could have sworn that Jana was pursuing midwifery.  Well, whatever.  All these Duggars are incapable of fully committing to a job or a course of study.  It is more apparent now that several of them are in their mid-twenties.  I am not saying anyone should have it all completely figured out at that age or anything, but the "piddling years" should be coming to a close and their should be a clearer focus on what you're going to do with your life.  I strongly suspect that Jill and her siblings were convinced that they would have the TV show income forever and so they saw no reason to do anything else.  

[doodlebug]

 

I feel kind of hopeful, since I have a feeling that most folks in Central America are going to be less likely to trust a random, questionably trained U.S. "missionary" to care for them than a bunch of disgruntled, uneducated Arkansas super-fundies would be

Alas, I don't think that is the case.  In my experience, the people in developing nations have a great deal of respect and admiration for the US and they know that the general standard of medical care available here is higher.  They avidly seek out American caregivers, often wanting them to give second opinions on what the local practitioners have done for them.  I always worked in a setting where I was licensed and approved by the local government to practice, but the actual people we treated never asked, didn't know a thing about our backgrounds.  At my most recent mission, I screened men with hernias for the general surgeons to operate.  I haven't examined an adult male in more than 30 years, but nobody asked.  I might also add, however, that I did at one time, get trained in how to examine for hernia and did have general surgeons available to me if I had a question. I also have examined women for hernias and diagnosed them, too, so I had the general gist of it. Of course, I didn't have a darned thing to do with fixing the hernias, just taking a look and confirming the diagnosis.

 

Here's a good example of how it goes:  I was working in a clinic in Kenya this summer as an OB/GYN.  A young pregnant woman came in and said she had malaria (very common there and folks know when they have it) and came to me for treatment,  I diverted her to the native practitioner who ran the clinic because 1) I've never seen malaria in anyone, let alone a pregnant lady 2) I don't know what drugs to use without doing some fairly extensive reading.  Meanwhile, the local treats malaria every day, including in pregnancy, and knows the drugs and doses off the top of his head.  After I sent her to him, she returned and got back in line to see me twice more!  Finally my translator explained it, 'She wants the white doctor.  She thinks you know more than anyone from here.". Not in this case I wasn't, but that's the mindset.  She was stunned when I told her that I had never treated malaria before-so was my translator, a college student, for that matter.  Luckily, our native-born pharmacist knew what she needed and saved the day.  Another time, in Peru, we were working at a local clinic specializing in Obstetrics.  The physician in charge had arranged for several patients with problem pregnancies to come in to see me to see what I might be able to add.  One was a pregnant lady with an advanced case of TB.  He was very interested in knowing how we treat active TB in pregnancy in the US and was stunned to hear I'd never seen it.  Luckily, my translator was a recently graduated med student who'd just taken the Peruvian medical board exams and she confirmed that he was doing the right things.  I was sorta glad the doc didn't speak English and didn't know that she was telling me what to do,

Edited September 11, 2015 by doodlebug

[Churchhoney]

Alas, I don't think that is the case.  In my experience, the people in developing nations have a great deal of respect and admiration for the US and they know that the general standard of medical care available there is higher.  They avidly seek out American caregivers, often wanting them to give second opinions on what the local practitioners have done for them.  I always worked in a setting where I was licensed and approved by the local government to practice, but the actual people we treated never asked, didn't know a thing about our backgrounds.  At my most recent mission, I screened men with hernias for the general surgeons to operate.  I haven't examined an adult male in more than 30 years, but nobody asked.  I might also add, however, that I did at one time, get trained in how to examine for this and did have general surgeons available to me if I had a question.  I also didn't have a darned thing to do with fixing the hernias, just taking a look and confirming the diagnosis.

 

Here's a good example of how it goes:  I was working in a clinic in Kenya this summer as an ONB/GYN.  A young pregnant woman came in and said she had malaria (very common there and folks know how to diagnose it themselves) and came to me for treatment,  I diverted her to the native practitioner who ran the clinic because 1) I've never seen malaria in anyone, let alone a pregnant lady 2) I don't know what drugs to use without doing some fairly extensive reading.  Meanwhile, the local treats malaria every day, including in pregnancy, and knows the drugs and doses off the top of his head.  After I sent her to him, she returned and got back in line to see me twice more!  Finally my translator explained it, 'She wants the white doctor.  She thinks you know more than anyone from here.". Not in this case I wasn't, but that's the mindset.  She was stunned when I told her that I had never treated malaria before-so was my translator, a college student, for that matter.

 

Argh. That's bad news.

 

You did work under the auspices of an actual clinic or something, though, right? .... I guess I picture Jill wandering around in the company of the lame-ass mime troupe, clearly knowing far less about birthing than local folks with experience and no training, and therefore giving people no reason to trust her. But I suppose that's just wishful thinking....

[Sew Sumi]

Jana was training to be a licensed doula. Her name still appeared in the student trainee rolls with Jill. I don't remember if it differentiated between their educational goals. If so, I don't remember it.

[GeeGolly]

Okay Jill, my advice to you is to put down the Doppler and back away slowly.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Jill and Derick posted a mission update. Here are the important highlights:

1. They are staying in the US for one month.

2. Jill is studying to take the test to become a certified professional midwife.

3. They have moved out of the McManson.

Edited because it was supposed to say "midwife," not "wife." LMAO! MY BAD!

Looks like you have to submit evidence of certain experiences, and it looks as if at least a few of hers would count. Don't see how most of her experience would count, though. And there's no way she could do all of this stuff that's required in a month. Maybe she has a mentor lined up in their mission location so she can complete the experiences she needs and prepare for the test? Here are the U.S. midwife association's requirements for being certified as an entry-level CPM -- http://narm.org/entry-level-applicants/

A friend went looking, and Jill is no longer listed as a student midwife in AR. I guess she's finishing her training, such as it is, in Guatemala. That's why Derick can call her a future CPM,a title she isn't qualified to have in the States.

Yeah, my response to Jill is studying to take the Certified Professional Midwife exam:

Sure, Jan.

Edited September 11, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Guest]

Yeah, my response to Jill is studying to take the Certified Professional Midwife exam:

Sure, Jan.

 

Best. Response. Ever. 

 

We can only hope that her new preceptor is George Glass. Teehee. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by Guest

[3girlsforus]

Jana was training to be a licensed doula. Her name still appeared in the student trainee rolls with Jill. I don't remember if it differentiated between their educational goals. If so, I don't remember it.

But I never got the impression she really wanted to do this. It seemed like something she was doing because Jill was doing it and frankly it was the only thing she was allowed to do. I'm actually glad she never finished her training because I never really felt like she wanted to do it in the first place.

[doodlebug]

 

 You did work under the auspices of an actual clinic or something, though, right?

Not always.  We often set up makeshift clinics in schools and churches or other public buildings in locations that were far from the nearest clinic in order to give people access who didn't have it.  Much of our work was done under the auspices of the Catholic Church and we did have the local missionary priest, men who spoke the language fluently and were very involved in the local community and well loved by the people for their work to aid the people and make their lives better.  We referred people who needed more than we could do and the priest would arrange transportation for them to the closest place where it could be done; often piling them into his truck and taking them himself.  The priests often paid for any extra care or meds for the locals out of their own funds because the people were too poor. Not sure that Jill would know what she doesn't know in order to refer people out nor that her particular religious faith would be as devoted to helping the people as the priests I've encountered.  I suspect they might use a bait and switch approach; draw people in with the offer of free care from an American medical professional and then hammer them over the head with their rigid beliefs instead.  I don't picture Jill opening her purse and handing a local 10 bucks to pay for prescriptions.

Edited September 11, 2015 by doodlebug

[Sew Sumi]

But I never got the impression she really wanted to do this. It seemed like something she was doing because Jill was doing it and frankly it was the only thing she was allowed to do. I'm actually glad she never finished her training because I never really felt like she wanted to do it in the first place.

Oh, I agree. She was really nothing more than Jill's accountability partner.

[JoanArc]

Malpractice lawsuits are a bitch, Jilly Muffin.

[MarysWetBar]

If I'm not mistaken Jill began training with someone else after her original sponsor lost her license. The new sponsor is the one who practices out of the dilapidated Deliverance shed next to a large Propane tank. She was featured during Jill's pregnancy epis.

I think you purposed to have me choke on that Dorito while perusing the threads.

[BitterApple]

I think you purposed to have me choke on that Dorito while perusing the threads.

I'm sending you a virtual glass of wine to wash down the offending Dorito! This forum should come with a warning label that the Duggars are potential choke hazards.

[Guest]

I have to say that I find this part of Derick's update super creepy:

 

"I am so proud of all the hard work she has put in over the years to prepare to be a midwife. As it should be in all Christian’s lives, she is using this skill as a means to an end, and that end being the spread of the message of the greatest love story ever told, that is, the work of Jesus Christ upon the cross so that all people who believe what he said and choose to make him the Lord* of their life will enjoy life with him forever in paradise. "

 

So, Jill isn't becoming a midwife to help mothers and babies? She's becoming a midwife as a means to an end to proselytize about Jesus? Will she only accept converted clients or attempt to convert them in between contractions? Oy. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by Guest

[Itsnotreality]

Or is that how he is justifying the expense of flying back to Arkansas for a month. It is then more deeply related to the real "mission".

Midwifery with intent to convert.

[kokapetl]

Labour might not really be the best time to start selling Jesus to a pregnant woman, they're in pain and busy trying to push out a baby. And considering the whole non nurse midwife thing is barely tolerated by medical authorities, she'd practically be daring them to revoke her Mickey Mouse "license" if she was using midwifery as a Jesus sales system.

[Itsnotreality]

Ha! You just reminded me of my labours... And when my poor hubby made the mistake of suggesting music (you know, straight from the prenatal class handbook). Somehow I was able through very gritted teeth turn to him and say "do you REALLY think a little music is going to help anything right now?!?!?!!" What is it about Jill that just makes you want her to meet some "real" people who would tell her what they really need, through very gritted teeth.

[LilyoftheValley]

I have to say that I find this part of Derick's update super creepy:

 

"I am so proud of all the hard work she has put in over the years to prepare to be a midwife. As it should be in all Christian’s lives, she is using this skill as a means to an end, and that end being the spread of the message of the greatest love story ever told, that is, the work of Jesus Christ upon the cross so that all people who believe what he said and choose to make him the Lord* of their life will enjoy life with him forever in paradise. "

 

So, Jill isn't becoming a midwife to help mothers and babies? She's becoming a midwife as a means to an end to proselytize about Jesus? Will she only accept converted clients or attempt to convert them in between contractions? Oy. 

Okay so I am not a Christian and I am not religious, so maybe I just don't get it, but surely coercing or bribing a person to convert to Christianity (or Evangelicalism in the case of El Salvador) is not exactly a real conversion?  I mean shouldn't something that stem from true sincerity and belief?  BTW, though I deeply respect the work that medical aid workers do in many countries, the ones that are associated with a religious mission also reek of this.  It seems that there is a "catch" to many of these missions and it involves subtly providing non-religious services in exchange for conversion.  Again I am not a Christian and I do not believe in God but my understanding of the Christian God is that he cannot be tricked.  

[SometimesBites]

Yes, White Christian Woman, come to the village and show the women how to birth.

 

Honestly, I'm really uncomfortable with the idea that someone who never even took a biology course is considered a "professional" in that field.

Indeed. I'm uncomfortable with the idea that someone who believes dinosaurs and humans lived on earth simultaneously could be considered to have the critical thinking skills needed to help deliver babies.

 

she is using this skill as a means to an end

 

Yes, that's what a midwife is SUPPOSED to do. Only the "end" is only supposed to be the safe delivery of a child and the health of the mother. PERIOD.

Edited September 11, 2015 by SometimesBites

[sometimesy]

Absolutely astonished that a midwife doesn't need to go to a University and get a BSc Nursing first. What a farce!

Edited September 11, 2015 by sometimesy

[JoanArc]

 

I admit, I giggled.

[Guest]

Okay, I did a little research. Certified Professional Midwives (CPMs) are licensed by the North American Registry of Midwives. Here is their website wherein they lay out the requirements necessary for licensure. It sounds like Jill has completed Step 1 and she is in the midst of Step 2 as she prepares for the exam. 

 

http://narm.org/entry-level-applicants/

 

This sounds so scarily simple that I actually might consider becoming a Certified Professional Midwife now. No offense to CPMs who go through a reputable midwifery school, but the fact that **I** could easily bypass that step and become a certified midwife should be terrifying to anyone. 

 

Edit: I should add it's my hope that becoming a CPM is not as easy as it appears. I'm hoping that exam is difficult as hell, because it would certainly weed out the pretenders from the professionals. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by Guest

[LilyoftheValley]

Absolutely astonished that a midwife doesn't need to go to a University and get a BSc Nursing first. What a farce!

It varies by state, though I suspect Arkansas has limited regulation.  Many states require that a midwife be "supervised" by a doctor, similar to how a nurse is technically under a doctor's supervision at a hospital.  What the word "supervise" means in this context has be litigated many times and, again, it varies from state to state.  Sorry this is probably not that great of an answer but I took a healthcare law class in law school and it has been ten years and I never practiced in this field.  

 

Anyway, to me being a midwife is a serious calling and not something to sort of dabble in.  Either you have the character type to stay up all night, fix problems, keep calm in the face of catastrophe, and above all know your own limits, or you don't.  Look, an easy birth with zero complications doesn't require a midwife at all (if you really stopped to think about it).  It is the harder ones that require one.  To me the hardest thing about being a midwife would be to know when you have reached the limit of what you can do and that it is time to go to the hospital. I grew up in total hippie culture and we used midwives long before these fundies got on board (well post 1950's).  At any rate I have heard of two babies dying and several very scary emergency hospital trips.  The midwife who delivered me (at home 30 + years ago and I was only her second) is now completely against home births and will only practice in a hospital under a doctor's supervision.  That woman was an intelligent and professional person who understood that she had limitations.  Jill is not mature and she is not professional.  Whenever you read or hear about a baby or mother dying or suffering a serious problem in a home birth, there was always a point where the midwife wasn't able to set her ego aside and call 911.  It was that point where two lives were in jeopardy.  A great midwife recognizes this point and immediately takes action even if it "robs" the mother of her home birth.  It's sort of like the guide on those Everest trips who needs to turn around but instead pushes to get their client to the top.  This is why I cannot fathom that midwifery would ever be a good match for any of the Duggar women.  It requires that the practitioner have her feet solidly in the realm of reality and constantly assessing her ability to handle a situation.   Jill, at the age of 24, went straight from her parents to her husband.  She never got those years where you are in bad situations and the only person you can count on is you.  If you really think about it, the Duggar children have never had to make a hard or difficult decision on their own.  

Edited September 11, 2015 by LilyoftheValley

[Celia Rubenstein]

Indeed. I'm uncomfortable with the idea that someone who believes dinosaurs and humans lived on earth simultaneously could be considered to have the critical thinking skills needed to help deliver babies.

 

Jill Duggar doesn't have the critical thinking skills needed to help deliver a pizza.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[Guest]

Jill Duggar doesn't have the critical thinking skills needed to help deliver a pizza.

 

Hey now. She could deliver it, but if she ever gets lost on the way, it might take 70 hours before she stops to ask for directions. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by Guest

[JenCarroll]

Midwifery with intent to convert.

That sounds like a felony.

Sadly, it's not.

[CofCinci]

I have to say that I find this part of Derick's update super creepy:

"I am so proud of all the hard work she has put in over the years to prepare to be a midwife. As it should be in all Christian’s lives, she is using this skill as a means to an end, and that end being the spread of the message of the greatest love story ever told, that is, the work of Jesus Christ upon the cross so that all people who believe what he said and choose to make him the Lord* of their life will enjoy life with him forever in paradise. "

So, Jill isn't becoming a midwife to help mothers and babies? She's becoming a midwife as a means to an end to proselytize about Jesus? Will she only accept converted clients or attempt to convert them in between contractions? Oy.

Derrick is just as Fundie as JB, which is why he hand-selected Derrick for his daughter. People had these high hopes for Derrick. He's vile. More of the same. I'm surprised that he's letting Jill even take the classes or study for the exam -- but I guess he sees it as "means to an end". How Machiavellian of him.

[Churchhoney]

Not always.  We often set up makeshift clinics in schools and churches or other public buildings in locations that were far from the nearest clinic in order to give people access who didn't have it.  Much of our work was done under the auspices of the Catholic Church and we did have the local missionary priest, men who spoke the language fluently and were very involved in the local community and well loved by the people for their work to aid the people and make their lives better.  We referred people who needed more than we could do and the priest would arrange transportation for them to the closest place where it could be done; often piling them into his truck and taking them himself.  The priests often paid for any extra care or meds for the locals out of their own funds because the people were too poor. Not sure that Jill would know what she doesn't know in order to refer people out nor that her particular religious faith would be as devoted to helping the people as the priests I've encountered.  I suspect they might use a bait and switch approach; draw people in with the offer of free care from an American medical professional and then hammer them over the head with their rigid beliefs instead.  I don't picture Jill opening her purse and handing a local 10 bucks to pay for prescriptions.

 

Thanks for all the information! .... Very interesting. (and that terrible useless Catholic Church -- we all know that, per the Dullards, it's merely a road to hell)

 

I guess what I'm saying is-- there was a "we" in what you did. (and in at least some cases an additional "we" in country). As far as I can see, Jill's only possible "we" is the mime troupe. And while I guess SOS is not all mime troupe, I remember the looks on the locals' faces when they were herded into that compound watching that monstrosity, and I wonder how many would actually trust that organization. They were clearly dumbfounded by the insulting mime. And I'm sure they know that that's the group that brings round the fingernail painters. So I wonder how many would trust them to bring around any actual skilled professionals, in health care or otherwise. I think you're probably right on the money with your suggestion about the bait and switch. I think they are really all about conversion.

 

And I'm increasingly skeptical that Jill will get any kind of certification. I doubt that she can get one in country, and the U.S. certification even for an entry-level CPM is far far off, given the list of requirements. More and more, I think that, if anything, they're just going to help SOS do the kind of bait and switch you mention while Jill does the usual Duggar pretense of working toward the certification goal but never ever getting there. It would take quite a while for anyone to meet the requirements while living in an unfamiliar place where they barely know the language, I think, let alone for Jill.

[doodlebug]

FWIW, CPM's (certified professional midwives) do not practice in hospitals nor do they usually have affiliation with a physician.  They do home births, period.  Many states, including the one where I practice, do not certify or license them, it is technically illegal to be a CPM and charge for services in those states.  The reason the CPM organization plugs their own 'certification' is because they are aware that many places don't license or certify their grads because they just aren't good enough.I don't think they can write prescriptions in states where they are legal.  Where I live, there is a loose group of practitioners, some of them CPM's, who do home births.  When things go awry, the 'midwife' drops the woman off at the ER and reminds her that, if anyone asks, she was planning to deliver herself with no attendants.  Jill's skill set, as seen on TV, seems to be on a par with the CPM's I've encountered.  The ones I've seen tend to ignore any warning signs that things aren't going well and instead have this fantasy of birth in which nothing bad ever happens.  By the time they wake up and seek care, something bad has already happened.   There are some CPM's who have worked hard to become competent providers, but most of what they've done is considered above and beyond.

 

BTW, CNM's (certified nurse midwives) are an entirely different, well trained and licensed, profession.  CPM's are many, many rungs below them in the quality and extent of their training.

Edited September 11, 2015 by doodlebug

[Liz Tudor]

I have to say that I find this part of Derick's update super creepy:

 

"I am so proud of all the hard work she has put in over the years to prepare to be a midwife. As it should be in all Christian’s lives, she is using this skill as a means to an end, and that end being the spread of the message of the greatest love story ever told, that is, the work of Jesus Christ upon the cross so that all people who believe what he said and choose to make him the Lord* of their life will enjoy life with him forever in paradise. "

Great discussion on what Derick was trying to say, but damn, I got mired down in trying to read this hot mess of a grammatical nightmare. I recently taught developmental reading & English at a community college for 5 years, and this is the kind of crap writing that hurt my head. Sometimes, I'd just stop reading, and write "try again." This is definitely one of those. Just another issue in a long list of issues these people have.