Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[drafan]

 She really doesn't have anything to lose and she's not pregnant yet, so why not?

Oh, really? You're sure about that? It's been almost two weeks.

 

My guess is that she will do nothing but stay at home and wait to get pregnant. While wearing a skirt. And curling her hair. And making lunch for Derrick. And changing her Pinterest from "wedding planning" to "babies".

 

In her beach pic, she's wearing a T-shirt with shortish sleeves (I actually think the sleeves look shorter when the J-girls are taking selfies cuz the arms rise), and you can see something darker under it around the neck....either another layer...or one of those fundie swim dresses. Nothing's changed.

[Higgins]

I do hope that Jill keeps on training, she was so close to becoming a certified nurse midwife and she must be bored staying at home.

A CNM requires a graduate degree. She is not close to that goal. She is training as a lay midwife.

[Mariva]

A CNM requires a graduate degree. She is not close to that goal. She is training as a lay midwife.

Jill wrote a blog post a while back on the TLC site and she said that she enrolled in a 3 1/2 year program to become a certified professional midwife (CPM). This was back in 2012 so assuming that she kept up with her studies without any interruptions it looks like she still has about a year or so of education left. Not sure what the differences are between a CNM and a CPM. 

 

Speaking of all those rumors about whether she quit midwifery to become a stay at home wife, another person who claims to be in the know had this to say:

Jill did not quit the midwife gig. She is taking a sabbatical. She is learning to adjust to being a married woman, as well as taking care of her new mother in law. She also is still hanging out with her siblings one on one because she misses them. Jennifer stayed at her house last night. She has not stopped, she will be back soon.

Honestly, I find this scenario a lot more plausible than her giving up midwifery altogether. Remember, it was Jill's interest in missionary work/midwifery that drew Derick's attention to her in the first place. I can't imagine that he wouldn't encourage her to continue with her studies considering how much time and effort she has spent on it already. 

Edited July 4, 2014 by Mariva

[Ivy26]

It's kind of heartbreaking that Jenny spent the night with her.  Poor little girl is losing the only mother she really had, and the transition back to Bitchelle can't be easy

[abseedee]

Speaking of all those rumors about whether she quit midwifery to become a stay at home wife, another person who claims to be in the know had this to say:

Jill did not quit the midwife gig. She is taking a sabbatical. She is learning to adjust to being a married woman, as well as taking care of her new mother in law. She also is still hanging out with her siblings one on one because she misses them. Jennifer stayed at her house last night. She has not stopped, she will be back soon.

 

Honestly, I find this scenario a lot more plausible than her giving up midwifery altogether. Remember, it was Jill's interest in missionary work/midwifery that drew Derick's attention to her in the first place. I can't imagine that he wouldn't encourage her to continue with her studies considering how much time and effort she has spent on it already. 

I'm being cautiously optimistic in thinking that this makes more sense and I was also hoping she is spending time with her MIL.

[cmr2014]

 

 

Speaking of all those rumors about whether she quit midwifery to become a stay at home wife, another person who claims to be in the know had this to say:

Jill did not quit the midwife gig. She is taking a sabbatical. She is learning to adjust to being a married woman, as well as taking care of her new mother in law. She also is still hanging out with her siblings one on one because she misses them. Jennifer stayed at her house last night. She has not stopped, she will be back soon.

 

I hope that this is all true, and not wishful thinking on the part of the "person in the know."

 

It certainly makes sense -- I can't imagine the culture shock of going from the TTH to being married, living with just one other person, etc. in such a short period of time.

 

I'm also glad that she has the opportunity for some one-on-one time with Jennifer. This is a huge life-change for that little girl, too.

 

It would be great for Jill to spend some time with her MIL. My hope is that the MIL is weak from chemo, but getting better. It would be a great opportunity to spend some private one-on-one time with someone with a different perspective on life.

[trimthatfat]

Oh, really? You're sure about that? It's been almost two weeks.

 

 

Well, no, I don't know that for sure as I am not inside her reproductive system a la The Magic School Bus, obviously. I was just assuming.

[drafan]

Take for instance her lie about going to the beach on her honeymoon: the false claim that hardly anyone else was there because it's not the busy season at the beach.

 

In her defense, anything is going to seem "quiet" and "not busy" after leaving that houseful of bedlam. And any vacation she ever took was wild and crazy with kids sleeping on top of each other and running rampant over everything and stuffing junk food into their mouths at all hours.

[Fuzzysox]

Our dentist is one of 13 kids. When she finished school she got herself a condo and moved out. She told me that once she moved she had to go back to her parent's home because she missed the "noise" and business of being there.

 

I don't blame Jill at all for taking in her brothers or sisters. It might change after she has her own kids but it's the only life she ever knew.

[MrMattyMatt]

 

 

I don't blame Jill at all for taking in her brothers or sisters. It might change after she has her own kids but it's the only life she ever knew.

Exactly.  Why would she suddenly shut them out?  They are not only siblings but basically great friends.  I am sure now that she's married, she'll be allowed to venture out and make new friendships that are not part of the Duggar Dynasty, but will most likely remain close with her family.

Edited July 4, 2014 by MrMattyMatt

[mmmsoap]

I can only speak to my own experience, but sometimes the less sexy-feeling partner can start feeling surprisingly sexy with a little, um, attention. That's where being willing to meet the other halfway can have some unexpected dividends. (When I hear a woman complaining about sex with her husband like it's some kind of chore, I always want to ask, "Are you sure he's doing it correctly?")

You. I like you.

I really hope that Derrick spent some time to themarriagebed or something. He's going to need to be armed to overcome Jill's bizarre and unhealthy views. I think it's pretty obvious that they both struggled to keep their hands off each other during the courtship, but that poor girl had a lot of deprogramming that needs to be done.

[Mom24kids]

I just wanted to clarify the difference between a Certified Nurse Midwife and a Certified Professional Midwife. A CNP Is a Registered Nurse who has completed 4 years in the Science of Nursing. Then completes 2 more years in the study of women's health and Midwifery. A CNP can the work in a hospital setting. She/he can also treat female problems before during and after pregnancy, as well as treat pre and post - menopausal women for a variety of female related complaints. She/he also has certain prescription writing allowances. A CPM completes 18 months to 2 years of training in a Certificate Program to assist with pregnancies in a birth center or home setting. They are trained to observe for any complications that may arise and send the Mother to the hospital if needed. A CPM can accompany a Mother to the hospital and the act as a Dola but does not practice in the hospital. Both are important in a birth scenario and can be knowledgeable in the field of Midwifery. Approximately 28 states recognize CPM's. If Mom is healthy and having an uncomplicated pregnancy the a CPM can be a great choice.

[ChicksDigScars]

Judging from the rainbow of striped infinity scarves that Jill wears in her Instagram photos, she cleaned out the selection at Walmart. Last time I was in my local store, they had about 20 color combos of the same striped scarf. (I'm embarrassed to admit that I bought black/white, navy/white and turquoise/white). Hey, for five bucks each?

[trimthatfat]

Exactly.  Why would she suddenly shut them out?  They are not only siblings but basically great friends.  I am sure now that she's married, she'll be allowed to venture out and make new friendships that are not part of the Duggar Dynasty, but will most likely remain close with her family.

 

Yeah, it's clear that the children have a basic affection for one another. I believe the kids when they say one of the best things about their family is that they always have someone to play with or talk to. Jill is still their sister at the end of the day and just because she's married doesn't mean that changes. If anything, I think it's a blessing that Jill has her own place but is still relatively close.

[PecanSandie]

I'd really like to know how the clash of cultures is working out. If photos and scuttlebutt are any indication, it looks like Jill and her oft mentioned virginity have pulled Derick firmly into the freakish fundamental Baptist world and out of his previous liberal Southern Baptist world.

[bigskygirl]

Was it Jill's decision to take some time off from her training or was it someone else's idea? I hope she does not become too dependent on her siblings, Derick and his mother for company and friendships. She should be going out and meeting others and exploring the big, wide world by herself.  The poor girl has been brainwashed to believe she has to rely on someone else when she goes outside her new home because of the evil heathens out there might defraud and tempt her  to have impure thoughts and act out on them.

[SongbirdHollow]

Take for instance her lie about going to the beach on her honeymoon: the false claim that hardly anyone else was there because it's not the busy season at the beach.

This is a prim example of being so frightened of what the people in the cult will think of her for going to the beach that she decides a bold faced lie to a national magazine is a better idea.

I'm not really sure I understand why you say this is a lie...I was there the same week they were and it's the truth that it's early in the season and not very busy yet. In fact, I remember noticing how many cottages were vacant that week. My own rental company was advertising part-week specials because places weren't booked.

 

I also have never heard that Gothardites frown upon vacationing at the beach. I know they wear modest swimwear (as do some Jews like Mayim Bialik) but I thought they simply looked away from "defrauding" sights as necessary. 

[AnyoneButYou]

Isn't it hurricane season wherever Jill and Derrick honeymooned? I think that's part of the reason why it's not very busy there around this time.

Edited July 4, 2014 by AnyoneButYou

[Lillybee]

If I remember correctly, Josh and Anna honeymooned at a fairly crowded beach.

[BitterApple]

On one hand I think it's great Jill is maintaining close relationships with her siblings but on the other it seems weirdly co-dependent. Does Jill realize she's 23 and is allowed to go to Wal-Mart alone?

She's only three weeks into marriage and already acting like a bored housewife. Picnic basket work lunches and Jenny sleeping over? I think Derick is going to get tired of the Duggar sibs real quick.

[SongbirdHollow]

Isn't it hurricane season wherever Jill and Derrick honeymooned? I think that's part of the reason why it's not very busy there around this time.

 

Hurricane season is June 1 to October 31 -- all summer and then some. It is still early for a major storm; many people don't buy trip insurance for trips this early, but a lot buy it for September.

 

I think "busy" and "crowded" is a YMMV thing. It was not that busy that week IMO. And it's never as busy in OBX as say, Ocean City or Myrtle Beach, as there are no high rises in OBX. But again, I don't understand the relevance anyway. Where does Gothard say you can't vacation at a busy beach?

[Higgins]

Isn't it hurricane season wherever Jill and Derrick honeymooned? I think that's part of the reason why it's not very busy there around this time.

Hurricane season lasts from early June to November on the east coast. People don't avoid the beach for those months but it gets busier after July 4th as it gets much hotter and more humid late July, early August.

[PecanSandie]

Posted earlier in the thread with a link from Michelle talking about why they frown on beach goers.

Jill was at the beach 3 weeks before the hurricane, so no, that didn't have an effect on how busy/not busy the beach is/was.

But she is straight out bald faced lying when she claims that the 3rd week of June isn't busy at the beach in NC. It's the height of busy.

I don't care that she went to the beach, more power to her. It's the ATI/Bill Gothard cult teaching that she is sinning for going to the beach.

[AnyoneButYou]

Eh, I live on the west coast so I really don't know anything about the weather on the east coast. I just remember seeing a few comments on Jill's Instagram honeymoon picture that they got out just in time.

 

Hasn't Anna said in the past that her family went to the beach a lot when she was growing up? I can't imagine her family had access to a private beach or anything. I don't remember anyone on the show ever saying that going to the beach is a no-no just that they wear modest swimwear. Either way, I don't think Jill is going around lying to show how virtuous she is in her Gothardism.

[MrMattyMatt]

There's a lot of beach up and down the coast - even in the height of the season it's not hard to find somewhere fairly private.

[trimthatfat]

I don't think Jill was lying. I don't even think saying the beach was mostly empty is something worth noting as suspicious. It's just a non-factor, imo.

 

On one hand I think it's great Jill is maintaining close relationships with her siblings but on the other it seems weirdly co-dependent. Does Jill realize she's 23 and is allowed to go to Wal-Mart alone?

 

Jill knows what it is to be trapped in the family home. She could go to Wal-Mart alone, but if she has a sibling she wants to take along for company for less than an hour, why not? It would be really unusual and a huge red flag if she were able to just remove her family from her life this abruptly. Jill is mature enough to recognize that her siblings care for her and likely want to hang out with her. When she's hosting sleepovers every day of the week a year from now, yeah, that's cause for alarm, but at this point, less than 2 weeks from marriage? Not seeing the issue.

Edited July 4, 2014 by trimthatfat

[PecanSandie]

The issue for me is not that Jill lied, the issue to me is the fear she lives with everyday that pushed her to lie.

The Gothard cult is very judgemental about what they call standards. A week on one of the most popular beaches in NC surrounded by people who are according to Gothard and Michelle "naked," is not keeping up the cult standards.

[Lillybee]

Is Jill being held to a higher standard than Josh and Anna? If so, why?

[MrMattyMatt]

Is Jill being held to a higher standard than Josh and Anna? If so, why?

I've been wondering the same thing!!

[bigskygirl]

Because she is a young woman, and a young woman can lead males into trouble by defrauding him and leading him to temptation. Women in the Gothard movement are considered second class citizens and must be watched closely.

 

And on the subject of Jill taking her siblings out of the trappings of the family home. She is not their keepers. She should be out making new friends and having new experiences in the real world. She is clinging to her old life instead of focusing on a completely new life with her husband. I did not remember hearing about Joshie spending a lot of time with his siblings after getting married.

[RedheadZombie]

It's kind of heartbreaking that Jenny spent the night with her. Poor little girl is losing the only mother she really had, and the transition back to Bitchelle can't be easy

Poor Jenny. I wonder if she expected to cuddle in bed like they used to? That's very good for Jenny, but I feel bad for Jordyn. I don't think Jessa will be missing her much. To bad she can't accompany Jennifer.

[starfire]

The issue for me is not that Jill lied, the issue to me is the fear she lives with everyday that pushed her to lie.

The Gothard cult is very judgemental about what they call standards. A week on one of the most popular beaches in NC surrounded by people who are according to Gothard and Michelle "naked," is not keeping up the cult standards.

 

I think it's a stretch to keep insisting Jill "lied", especially when someone else here posted that they were there the same week and it was the truth.  And if married couples going to the beach was that big of a deal to Boob and Clown Car, then I tend to doubt Jill and Derick (and Josh and Anna) would have honeymooned at a beach.

Because she is a young woman, and a young woman can lead males into trouble by defrauding him and leading him to temptation. Women in the Gothard movement are considered second class citizens and must be watched closely.

.

 

Anna is a young woman, too. Does she not belong to the same church as Josh and the rest of the Duggars? I tend to doubt either Anna or Jill was running around the beach in a bikini defrauding men, so I am not clear what the difference is.

 

I'm curious, after a couple is married, like Jill & Derick, could Jill wear things like shorts or camisoles at home if it was just her and Derick, or is that still a no-no?

[PecanSandie]

Late June is a very busy time on NC beaches. That's just a fact of life. It's summer in the South, it's what we do, go to the beach.

It's normal. What isn't normal is being so afraid of what people in your cult will think is lying about it.

What did she do when they walk down the beach and naked (to her) women walk by? Scream Nike?

So another part of this that comes to mind is that Jill went somewhere her parents and the cult don't really approve of. And that's good.

[Almost 3000]

Question, it appears both Josh and Jill had private beach houses for their honeymoons. Is this an east coast thing? I'm west coast and a private house wouldn't be the norm here.

[starfire]

Eh, as much as I like to snark on the Duggars I am not convinced that  J&D and J&A honeymooning on beaches were rebellious acts. I think if they were that afraid of what Gothard thought, they would not have gone to a beach at all.

 

Question, it appears both Josh and Jill had private beach houses for their honeymoons. Is this an east coast thing? I'm west coast and a private house wouldn't be the norm here.

 

I live on the west coast. There are lots of vacation rental agencies that offer houses for rent. A lot people list them in the paper and on places like Craigslist, too. We stayed at a really cool house on the Oregon coast not long ago. It was on a bluff overlooking the ocean and the view was amazing!  Renting a beach house can be much nicer than staying at a hotel.

[bigskygirl]

Mullet said she defrauded her one neighbor by wearing a bikini while mowing the lawn and this cause his wife to divorce him. Anna has Josh to keep her straight, and Josh has authority over her. Jill married a man who has been out there in the real world by himself (went to college, been overseas without a chaperone tagging along to keep him out of trouble.)

[starfire]

...and Derick has authority over Jill....or are you saying he doesn't because he's not a Duggar?

[Almost 3000]

Eh, as much as I like to snark on the Duggars I am not convinced that  J&D and J&A honeymooning on beaches were rebellious acts. I think if they were that afraid of what Gothard thought, they would not have gone to a beach at all.

 

 

I live on the west coast. There are lots of vacation rental agencies that offer houses for rent. A lot people list them in the paper and on places like Craigslist, too. We stayed at a really cool house on the Oregon coast not long ago. It was on a bluff overlooking the ocean and the view was amazing!  Renting a beach house can be much nicer than staying at a hotel.

Yes, I know there are rental houses on the west coast it just doesn't seem to be as much of an option here (So Cal for me) as it does on the right side. By renting a private home it seemed like the Duggar/Dillard honeymoons could be a bit more private and less Nike. What I was really asking was is home rental as common as a resort for honeymoons in that area.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Almost 3000

[Absolom]

The Outerbanks is not covered with hotels.  Beach cottages and houses are more of a standard there. 

[Almost 3000]

Thank you @Absolom that answers my question.

[bigskygirl]

Derick probably does have some authority over Jill, but he seems to be less of an ass about it than Smuggar is. Anna does seem to toe the Gothard line and blindly goes along with what Joshie expects of her. Jill does seem to be toeing the same line, but Derick was not raised the same way she was. He has a lot more worldly experience than all the Duggars put together, and this may make JimBoob a little nervous. Smuggar can pretend to be independent and be his own person until the cows come home, but in reality, JimBoob still has some control over him. He is probably hoping Derick will be more like Ben. Ben seems to a butt kisser when it comes to the Duggar way of life, Derick may be going along with the flow to make Jill happy, but he may not enjoy the invasion of the Duggars into his life.

[parisprincess]

There are secluded areas on many beaches and, as someone said above, they could have rented a place with a private beach, so I'm not about to call Jill a liar.  I also don't think she lives in fear of Gothard on a daily basis. 

 

There's so much speculation about their lives, but that's all it is..... speculation, since we don't know them personally.  I'm just glad Jill found a man who is more worldly than she is and I hope he teaches her a lot about life outside the Duggar compound, but lets give it some time.  Good lord, they just got married, so I don't expect to see her detaching from her family and running around Walmart alone immediately just because she's out from under JimBob's thumb.  And the fact that she's not doesn't mean she's being controlled by Derick.     

Edited July 5, 2014 by parisprincess

[bigskygirl]

Sad when her husband has to be the one who is more worldly and has to teach her about real life. She should be able to learn this on her own without depending on a man to do for her.

[PecanSandie]

I don't think Jill is afraid of what Bill Gothard may personally think. She has grown up being indoctrinated to believe that what Gothard teaches is what GOD thinks, so there is where it gets tricky.

The other part of the issue is the judgemental nature of her specific cult (ATI) and somewhat less specifically, the IBF, the fundamental baptist group the Duggars are members of. You just can not imagine what these people think of the slightest hint of immodesty.

The way I see it, the Older duggar girls are less impressed with those rules and standards. Jill taking her new hubby to Nike-ville is a good picture of that.

The other girls wearing Hooter girls make up and shorter skirts with the tight tops is more evidence.

But it's hard because they also try and retain their fundy baptist cred and speaking engagements.

[Rhondinella]

There's so much speculation about their lives, but that's all it is..... speculation, since we don't know them personally.  I'm just glad Jill found a man who is more worldly than she is and I hope he teaches her a lot about life outside the Duggar compound, but lets give it some time.  Good lord, they just got married, so I don't expect to see her detaching from her family and running around Walmart alone immediately just because she's out from under JimBob's thumb.  And the fact that she's not doesn't mean she's being controlled by Derick.

 

 

I'm Rhondinella, and I approve this message.

[abseedee]

Sad when her husband has to be the one who is more worldly and has to teach her about real life. She should be able to learn this on her own without depending on a man to do for her.

Honestly if I were Jill, I would rather marry a worldly man and learn something than marry someone like the Smugger and not learn anything at all. 

[bigskygirl]

In my opinion, if Jill and Derick are living in a house that JimBoob owns, and her wedding was filmed by TLC and People magazine was sold some pictures and did a few articles about it, she is still under his thumb. I do remember seeing one picture of her and a few family members at a parade, and she mention she was helping campaign for a candidate for governor. Yes, she is still under her father's thumb, and the poor girl knows nothing except being a part of the dog and pony show even after getting married. Derick may go along with this to keep the peace, but he may not be too happy about it.

[Bella]

I guess I'll weigh in with my own NC/Outer Banks beaches experience:

• June is not the height of the season; it's pretty easy to rent a house then compared to July and August.
• Some East Coast school districts teach until the middle of June, especially when the school year is extended by snow days, which happened this year. This is another reason why the beaches are not as populated as they are later in the summer.
• There are houses of various sizes for rent. I once went to the OBX with a friend, renting a 2-bedroom house. Most are larger; one house we stayed in accommodated 14 people.
• Even at the height of the season, it's not hard to find small patches of beach you can call your own. For example, on our last trip, our group included an adventurous 3-year-old girl and an 18-month-old boy who was firmly convinced that the word "no" only had meaning when he said it. They were easy to watch, however, because we had a nice spot of beach without other people between us and the water. If you want crowds, you can find them; it you want peace and quiet, that's available, too.
• The only thing Jill said about the trip that struck me as "off" was her comment about getting out just in time. I might be remembering the statement wrong, she might have been joking, or her isolation from news and any science education outside of her midwife training might have made her unfamiliar with how hurricanes form, move, and function.

 

Sorry for the bullets; that's how I think.

[Almost 3000]

Thx Bella. I find all the water rentals on the east coast charming and that includes all the "camps" and such in the mountains too. It seems like having second homes is more common there then I'm used here in So Cal. When married I had a mountain home and friends had Palm Springs second homes but no body seemed to rent them out when not in use.

[Higgins]

I don't believe she was being literal with the we just got out in time. I sure would hate if people constantly scrutiniz3ed everything they think I said both in and out of context and thought that meant that they know me or my thoughts and intentions. Maybe Jill is happy living the life her family has chosen. Why can't that be?