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Celebrating 1,000 NCIS-franchise episodes

Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

Chris Knight

By Chris Knight
in Counting On

CM-CrispMtAir
Message added by CM-CrispMtAir,

Shout out to everyone participating in the conversation about Jill’s miscarriage/stillbirth. You’re navigating a difficult topic with respect and thoughtfulness and your contributions are kind, considerate, constructive and informative. 

Thank you. 💚💚

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Zella

Zella

2 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

 

I’d like to believe Derick will save her, but he’s got his own issues.

Indeed, he really does. I'm leaning more and more toward what he is saying is largely true, but I think he's still an incredibly bitter, petty person who is very deeply resentful of how the universe had wronged him time and time again. 

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Tikichick

Tikichick

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1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I guess I have a different view of JB & M. I see a gullible young couple who fell into a cult after seeing the wrong MD for Michelle's miscarriage. I don't see a calculating evil couple who set out to damage their kids.

I see a couple who are shitty parents, following some shitty beliefs. JB is definitely an opportunist who tries to make a buck with the least amount of effort. However, when the family was highlighted after his failed run for office, reality TV shows featuring families weren't even a thing. No one, not even JB, could have fathomed they'd still be on TV.

I don't find it odd JB & M didn't tell interviewers or TLC about the molestations. Most folks don't openly share family trauma. I don't think they kept the molestations private because they thought TLC wouldn't continue to film them. I think not sharing it probably was due to shame, guilt, embarrassment and compassion for the girls.

How many rulers going back centuries started out with good intentions and ultimately wound up as paranoid, controlling and completely out of touch with reality and empathy for any experience or viewpoints besides their own?  

Just because JB and M started off naive doesn't mean they haven't made ugly choices for bad and selfish reasons since then.  Once they built their brand on their godliness leading to fruitfulness and multiplying their blessings and it paid off financially and with attention, nothing was going to stop the train.  Why on earth would they want to stop a train that applauded them for frequent sex that resulted in more blessings?  Why on earth would they want to stop a train that allowed the money to flow in without answering to heathen overseers?  Why on earth would they want to stop a train that allowed them to loll about in bed as they saw fit, operating everything on Duggar time?  Why on earth would they want to stop a train that plastered their images up everywhere as the best parents ever who were raising their children in the methods most pleasing to God with the bonus of not actually having to do the labor of earning the $$ to feed them, house them, clothe them or for that matter actually tend to them personally when simply putting themselves out there as the ultimate image of the godliest parents ever assured there were plenty lining up to take care of that for them?

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QuinnInND

QuinnInND

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1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

If Jill shakes the shackles, I have very high hopes for her. She has a few things going for her that others who have left toxic environments don't always have; a partner, and one that seemingly supports her, food, shelter and some ties to a healthier community.

It'll be a lot of little steps forward and giant leaps backward, but I think she could come out of this and be a happy, productive person, with some extra struggles here and there.

If she gets the right support and help from a therapist and Derwood, she could indeed come out a whole person. It's going to take work. I'm proof that it's possible with the right people. 

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Albanyguy

Albanyguy

3 hours ago, Lunera said:

I read on a Reddit thread that it was a male friend of the family who wrote the letter. I always wondered if it was Dim Bob's father who did it and that's why he loathed him so much.

It once crossed my mind that "Alice" was actually Jim Bob's sister, Deanna. She is not part of the Gothard cult and Jim Bob has always seemed to have a disapproving "on again, off again" relationship with her. In a weak moment, Grandma Mary may have confided the whole sordid story to her and then Deanna decided to expose what was going on in her brother's house in a backhanded way that couldn't be traced back to her. She might have been motivated by a desire to protect her nieces or, more likely, to settle old scores with her brother by bringing down his house of cards.

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Tikichick

Tikichick

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

@Tikichick, Your post responding to mine confuses me. I think I clearly stated that JB & M have, and continue to, make poor parenting choices.

I'm suggesting that their motives are arguably not so pure or unintentional, nor have they been for many, many years.  IMO once their heads were turned it became a calculated process of shaping a narrative that would allow them to get what they want with the least amount of effort on their part, both shaping the public opinion that whatever benefits flowed their way were righteously deserved and ultimately believing it themselves.   The kids became merely a means to their ends -- which at this "season of life" is providing JB and M larger numbers of grandchildren than anyone else can claim.  

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

(edited)
8 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I'm suggesting that their motives are arguably not so pure or unintentional, nor have they been for many, many years.  IMO once their heads were turned it became a calculated process of shaping a narrative that would allow them to get what they want with the least amount of effort on their part, both shaping the public opinion that whatever benefits flowed their way were righteously deserved and ultimately believing it themselves.   The kids became merely a means to their ends -- which at this "season of life" is providing JB and M larger numbers of grandchildren than anyone else can claim.  

But the money and celebrity didn't come until long after the molestations and they already had 14 kids before anyone knew who they were.

Edited by GeeGolly
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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

But the money didn't and celebrity didn't come until long after the molestations and they already had 14 kids before anyone knew who they were.

Don't forget that Boob and his family had some exposure through his stint at the State House. They weren't completely unknown.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

Just now, Sew Sumi said:

Don't forget that Boob and his family had some exposure through his stint at the State House. They weren't completely unknown.

True, but I doubt many outside of the local politics knew who he was.

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Zella

Zella

(edited)
2 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Don't forget that Boob and his family had some exposure through his stint at the State House. They weren't completely unknown.

True. I think Jim Bob popped up on my dad's radar in the late 90s when he first ran for office. That was about the time someone told my dad not to get between jim Bob and a dollar. He also had the real estate stuff going in the 90s. I doubt everyone had heard of him in the area, but he was not exactly an anonymous nobody to people in the surrounding area. 

Edited by Zella
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

1 minute ago, Zella said:

True. I think Jim Bob popped up on my dad's radar in the late 90s when he first ran for office. That was about the time someone told my dad not to get between jim Bob and a dollar. He also had the real estate stuff going in the 90s. I doubt everyone had heard of him in the area, but he was not exactly an anonymous nobody. 

I live in a very politically active state, but I bet if you did a poll more folks could name a good well known pediatrician or plumber than could name all our politicians.

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Zella

Zella

Just now, GeeGolly said:

I live in a very politically active state, but I bet if you did a poll more folks could name a good well known pediatrician or plumber than could name all our politicians.

I don't doubt that, but I think his real estate business may have made him more prominent than his politics to locals. I don't live in that county, but all the local real estate people in my county have name recognition. You can't escape the billboards and ads.

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Zella

Zella

Another thing I was reminded of while digging around on JB's failed 2002 campaign. His website at the time said that incest and rape should be punishable with the death penalty. This is the same time Josh was molesting his sisters and that Jim Bob and Michelle were aware he was doing it and months before he was even sent away since that didn't happen until the following year.

Further evidence Jim Bob really did fund his own campaign. His website didn't mention donations. It talks about if you want to volunteer, get bumper stickers, get emails, or pray. Nothing about if you want to donate to him.

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JoanArc

JoanArc

41 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Don't forget that Boob and his family had some exposure through his stint at the State House. They weren't completely unknown.

 He also had no problem exploring his family, both his children, and  his parents accumulated wealth to try to take over the freaking world via politics. He was always going to be an asshole no matter what. Michelle would have been one too.

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lascuba

lascuba

6 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Two facts:

  1. JB and Michelle hid the molestations from TLC and therefore got their big fat TV contract with all the attendant fame and money and freebies. Which brought TV crews into their house and put all their kids on public display to a degree they would have never experienced absent the TLC shows.
  2. That TV contract came along after JB had spent a quarter of a million dollars on a losing and stupid primary campaign to unseat a sitting US Senator, while his family lived literally squashed into a little ranch house. He could have housed them much more comfortably in that area, at that time, with even half of the money he spent on his political ego trip.

Obviously, there are differences of opinion as to how admirable the Duggars' parental response was to the molestations. Those two facts above are why I don't admire or respect their response to what was, yes, a horrible situation for any parent to face. The welfare of their children is not the primary concern of those parents. It's clearly down on the list of priorities after money and power. IMO. Obviously YMMV.

I'm not so sure about #1. I know I'm veering into conspiracy theory territory, but considering the timing--they filmed the first special while Josh was still being "punished" and they were filming while dealing with DCF and the courts--I wouldn't be at all surprised if JB partially told TLC what was going on. It would certainly explain TLC's refusal to cancel the show--hell, they aired a 19K marathon when the story broke--and to put on a facade of cancelling it and then almost immediately announcing CO. 

The thing is, while they didn't tell anyone that mattered and could provide legitimate help, JB and Michelle weren't exactly discreet either. They told friends; they told church elders; they paraded their children in front of their entire church to a make a show of repentance and forgiveness. In Touch would never have submitted that FOIA request if some random person who lived in the area hadn't contacted them to tell them about the rumors that everyone in the area new about. That's why I think Derick and Ben knew. Maybe a sanitized version, sure, but Jill especially was the type that would tell the person she was dating absolutely every detail of her life. And at least until Ashley Madison, Jessa and Jill were very clear that they were over what Josh did and it was no big deal to them. JB and Michelle wouldn't have problem with them telling their fiances because they saw the whole incident as proof of Jesus saving and all that jazz. 

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Zella

Zella

(edited)

I'm not sure any of the girls would have told their future husbands, even if they claimed it was no big deal in the interviews, which is a damage control moment and should probably be taken with a grain of salt, especially since they were never allowed to think for themselves or feel negative emotions and were required to forgive Josh. They may very well have thought at the time that they forgave Josh, but it doesn't mean they would have felt comfortable telling a man they were courting or even married to that their brother molested them.

With the Gothard material stressing that men attack women through some fault of the woman, I don't think even Jill was going to tell her future husband that she was molested by her brother. Because in their fucked up way of thinking, Josh may not have done something unforgivable, but they brought it on themselves. I suspect they were worried about being seen as impure by their spouses, even if it didn't occur to them said spouse would be mad at Josh. 😞

and I think deep down, the Duggars know from a societal perspective that what Josh did was going to be frowned upon and shouldn't be advertised to outsiders, including suitors or in laws. A lot of things get shared within the context of a church congregation or with close friends, but that doesn't mean it's something they would share freely with anyone in the inner circle. In fact, the police hotline report person says they asked Michelle and Jim Bob and were told then. It doesnt seem like they were actively sharing the info unsolicited. 

Edited by Zella
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

(edited)

So, are they still part of IBLP, or is the rift not because they're not a part of IBLP? Came back to add that that answer from Derick is to someone else. I'm still figuring this IG shit out.

oldmeanoldmanmike

@derickdillard Does the rift have anything to do with IBLP and your family no longer participating

7hReply

derickdillard

@traveling_momma_30 no they weren’t

Edited by GeeGolly
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floridamom

floridamom

I believe that Jill mentioning anything to Derick about her body before marriage would have been inappropriate conversation at that time. Heck, they couldn't even talk about the weather unsupervised. Jill would have never said a thing to Derick. I don't trust that Jim Bob said anything either because they wanted to sweep that and keep those events under the rug. Remember, it was 'no big thing' and it happens in lots of homes. How could Jim Bob have said that on TV, I'll never know. 

If Derick really cares about his sons, he will insist that they attend a school starting now. I think it will give Jill a more definitive window of opportunity to get her housework and errands done while the boys are in school. It may help all of them.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

2 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Wasn't "Jill and Jessa: Counting On" supposed to be a show about the 'kids'? 

Maybe he means their own contracted show? But anyways, he said a couple of days ago that filming was forced on them, so it doesn't make much sense.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

The first Duggar special, 14 Children and Pregnant Again aired September 2004. A year and a half after Josh was sent away.

The next specials, 3 shows with variations of 16 Children it the title, aired two years later when they moved in March 2006 and during a trip in June of 2006. The phone call and investigation happened six months after the last air date, in December of 2006.

The next special, the birth of Jennifer, aired in September of 2007. It seems whatever happened after the investigation, happened when they weren't filming, but they already had a relationship with TLC.

The series started September 2008.

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QuinnInND

QuinnInND

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28 minutes ago, PradaKitty said:

I must admit, Derrick is looking a lot healthier these days. Both families look as though they’re relaxed and having a good time.
 

Worlds better than Christmas in Duggarville. 

This. And Jilly looks cute with her braids. The kids look like they're having fun too. 

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Nysha

Nysha

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I don't know if it's the break from the Duggar circus, Derick being more secure in his life's purpose, or they managed to navigate through a very rocky period, but the whole family looks more relaxed and happy with each other.

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Totally

Totally

On 1/1/2020 at 6:10 AM, Zella said:

 

The increasing chaos and apparent filth they live in has not been a wake-up call about the way they live their lives. 

Have I missed something? Apart from Jessa attempting to be relatable photos, I haven’t seen filth in photos, is it the TTH that is manky?

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Higgins

Higgins

48 minutes ago, Totally said:

Have I missed something? Apart from Jessa attempting to be relatable photos, I haven’t seen filth in photos, is it the TTH that is manky?

I don’t see filth either. 

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