Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Snow Fairy]

Poor Joy, that was surely hard to hear

[quarks]

4 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Since it's public record we know who Jane Doe 1-4 were. Does the jury?

I'm not really sure that their identities matter to the jury. Only what happened to them.

[lascuba]

4 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Since it's public record we know who Jane Doe 1-4 were. Does the jury?

I assume if any of them know, it's the same way we do and not officially. All the records of the abuse were destroyed after Joy petitioned the court after the In Touch story.

[Tuxcat]

5 minutes ago, quarks said:

I'm not really sure that their identities matter to the jury. Only what happened to them.

I was referring to the fact that they were relatives of his. But I guess that is actually irrelevant. 

[Rootbeer]

3 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I assume if any of them know, it's the same way we do and not officially. All the records of the abuse were destroyed after Joy petitioned the court after the In Touch story.

It is irrelevant to the case and, since they were minors at the time, no need to go into details.  I suppose Bobye might've referred to his sisters as the victims, but their names are not necessary.  Now, if the defense tries to pretend it didn't happen or Bobye is mistaken about the details, Jill can take the stand, identify herself as one of the victims and rebut that testimony.

[absnow54]

According to the Sun, Jessa left before lunch and Jed was actually Jason. 

[Cinnabon]

26 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

Josh Duggar was then seen talking to his wife, Anna Duggar, for about 20 seconds and she was seen holding his hand the whole time by the Sun reporter.

 

Stupid brainwashed Anna

Or this is the order from the defense

Just think how much applause and support Anna would get if she spurned him. If only she knew.

20 minutes ago, quarks said:

I'm not really sure that their identities matter to the jury. Only what happened to them.

I hope they hear the ages of the victims though.

20 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I assume if any of them know, it's the same way we do and not officially. All the records of the abuse were destroyed after Joy petitioned the court after the In Touch story.

How could she just be learning about the abuses now, if she was the one who petitioned the court to destroy the records?

[Zella]

Now The Sun is saying it was Jason, not Jed. They cannot tell them apart. LOL

Didn't realize @absnow54 already noted this. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Zella

[Gemma Violet]

So wouldn't the prosecution pursue a further line of questioning to Bobye about her being offered payment, or is it better to just let her statement hang there and let the jurors think about who it could be?

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I hope they hear the ages of the victims though.

The Sun didn't mention anything about them being his sisters. The youngest victim was noted as being five, and Bobye did testify that the abuse lasted from the time Josh was 12 to 15. Not sure how much more detailed they got since I've noticed The Sun is weirdly selective in what they report on. 

[mittsigirl]

2 hours ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

That is a SHARP dress! That would look good on ME. 
‘Course, I prefer a bit of a plunge in my neckline, to show off my godly charms…
Derek my man, use a blade in your razor next time.

LOL, godly charms! The dress is very slimming on her with the black lines placed where they are. I would also love this dress, but with a much lower neckline, because I am a heathen.

[GeeGolly]

Uh oh, they're discussing the importance of the info the router contains. The router that wasn't seized or examined. 

[Zella]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

Uh oh, they're discussing the importance of the info the router contains. The router that wasn't seized or examined. 

I imagine the cross-examination on that might get lively. 

[lascuba]

This is an observation and not a criticism of Joy, but I wonder if her apparent upset in court is, at least in part, because she feels guilty that what Josh did to her might help get him convicted.

[Rootbeer]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

I imagine the cross-examination on that might get lively. 

Yeah, and the defense has to somehow make the jury believe that it is more likely that some unknown person remotely entered the Linux partition on the computer and downloaded CSAM while Josh was sitting right there in front of it the whole time.  

The odds of that are prohibitive especially when compared to the odds that the person sitting right there in front of the computer texting and taking photos did it.

[JustRosie]

If the jury finds Josh guilty, can they recommend a sentence?  Or is the judge bound by the sentencing guidelines?  TIA

[lascuba]

29 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

 

How could she just be learning about the abuses now, if she was the one who petitioned the court to destroy the records?

She can't be. It's pure speculation based on...I don't even know.

[absnow54]

Enough with the router! The router logs can show that other devices may have accessed the network, but the computer in question was identified, and it would be able to show the same information as the router, if someone remotely accessed it.

[lascuba]

1 minute ago, Namaste said:

If the jury finds Josh guilty, can they recommend a sentence?  Or is the judge bound by the sentencing guidelines?  TIA

Juries are only involved in sentencing if it's a death penalty case. For prison time, it's the judges who decide.

[Cinnabon]

Do you think the potential jurors were questioned about their knowledge of computers, routers, etc? 

[GeeGolly]

29 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Do you think the potential jurors were questioned about their knowledge of computers, routers, etc? 

My fear is during deliberations, a juror may label themselves an expert and advise others, but is actually no expert at all.

Edited December 6, 2021 by GeeGolly

[Lisa418722]

Could Jill possibly be called as a rebuttal witness for the prosecution depending on the defense witnesses.   I got my JD from Law and Order's Hudson University so I don't know if they could call a rebuttal witness, but I thought her testimony could be powerful.

 

Also I was reading elsewhere and people were saying Anna should have Madyson with her so she can feed on demand. I know she can't but if I'm on the jury and I see a man who has been charged with all that Josh has been charged with, and I see a baby not quite 2 months old, I will want to throw the book at him to keep him away from his children.   

[Panopticon]

48 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

According to the Sun, Jed was actually Jason. 

Eh, Michelle can’t tell the Howlers apart either. How can the Sun be expected to manage? 

[lascuba]

9 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Do you think the potential jurors were questioned about their knowledge of computers, routers, etc? 

Maybe--the questions they ask potential jurors can be highly specific. They don't want anyone with any medical knowledge in juries for malpractice cases, for example.  At the very least, they asked what they did for a living and excluded anyone who worked in anything related to the case.

[absnow54]

From The Sun:

Quote

Michelle Bush then explained Linux already had Ubuntu and Transmission programs, with no need to download them.

Transmission would allow access to the dark web.

Bush walked the court through a demonstration and opened Transmission, went to Firefox, looked for a torrent download of a movie, and showed that it wanted to open via Transmission, which was the default.

On Josh Duggar's Macbook, it was explained, Transmission was installed in 2017, and was used to download a Hollywood film.

In the case of the Linux partition in question, it had TOR, a torrent program, and VLC installed.

Gelfand's possible argument could be that Josh Duggar had used Transmission in the past, and he could be trying to question what the reasoning would be for Duggar to download other similar programs with the same goal.

This is like saying, "Why did you download Firefox or Chrome when Internet Explorer comes standard on your machine?" The prosecution established earlier that Josh Duggar used Tor on his Apple devices to watch adult pornography in 2019. Who cares if he used to use another program in 2017?

Edited December 6, 2021 by absnow54

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

After a break, Michelle Bush continued to testify.

She said the Linux partition was installed on the HP computer on May 13, 2019.

That same afternoon,

Defense lawyer Justin Gelfand asked if three files in question were opened on Josh Duggar's personal devices, and Michelle Bush said no. She testified she looked for them.

She said two files, Quiz 1 and Quiz Mommy Amy King Duggar are not the same files.

The Amy King Duggar file was on Josh Duggar's Macbook, and the Sun reporter in the courtroom claimed the prosecution said it could have been on the thumb drive, suggesting that Gelfand tried to debunk that theory today to show someone else plugged in the drive instead.

Michelle Bush said the only user on the partition was Dell_One.

She said it could be autogenerated because an underscore usually isn't allowed for user-generated names.

However, the courtroom Sun reporter noted that the prosecution proved with their questioning of James Fottrell that the username was not autogenerated.

several files were opened from an external thumb drive as well.

 

 

 

Michelle Bush then recreated the process the HP computer went through from May 13-15, 2019.

When she tried to sign up for Linux, the computer displayed an error when she tried to use dell_one.

It said the username should only have lower case, numbers, or dashes. which could show the username was autogenerated.

Gelfand noted no Dell computer was seized in the case, in a possible attempt to suggest the username was autogenerated and the mystery thumb drive was put into a computer before the partition was installed and could have come from a Dell, which Josh Duggar does not have.

Gelfand then moved onto the router for the HP computer in the car lot, and Michelle Bush explained the wires connect from the router to devices through ethernet.

She said she couldn't examine it because it was not seized.

She called the router "extremely important" because it hosted the IP address and they could know what devices were connected to it and how often.

Bush said routers contain logs and store both live data and memory.

Michelle Bush then explained Linux already had Ubuntu and Transmission programs, with no need to download them.

Transmission would allow access to the dark web.

Bush walked the court through a demonstration and opened Transmission, went to Firefox, looked for a torrent download of a movie, and showed that it wanted to open via Transmission, which was the default.

On Josh Duggar's Macbook, it was explained, Transmission was installed in 2017, and was used to download a Hollywood film.

[lascuba]

3 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

From The Sun:

This is like saying, "Why did you download Firefox or Chrome when Internet Explorer comes standard on your machine?" The prosecution established earlier that Josh Duggar used Tor on his Apple devices to watch adult pornography in 2019. Who cares if he used to use another program in 2017?

Are they trying to argue that because he already had Transmission, he wouldn't need to download anything else to access the dark web?

And saying that Linux already had Ubuntu makes zero sense. Ubuntu is a Linux distribution, it's not a program you install into Linux.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

In the case of the Linux partition in question, it had TOR, a torrent program, and VLC installed.

Gelfand's possible argument could be that Josh Duggar had used Transmission in the past, and he could be trying to question what the reasoning would be for Duggar to download other similar programs with the same goal.

[absnow54]

Just now, lascuba said:

And saying that Linux already had Ubuntu makes zero sense. Ubuntu is a Linux distribution, it's not a program you install into Linux.

Yeah this also irked me. I'm wondering if it was a transcription error. Ubuntu is a free version of Linux, not a program.

[GeeGolly]

Don't forget, we're getting the reporter's take. He or she may not fully understand what is being said and may be reporting it inaccurately. 

[Cinnabon]

18 minutes ago, Panopticon said:

Eh, Michelle can’t tell the Howlers apart either. How can the Sun be expected to manage? 

Exactly. And those 2 have especially punchable faces, imo.

[Dianaofthehunt]

How do the Duggars justify believing a WOMAN, even one on Team Defense?
First of all, she’s a vagina-owner, which certainly negates any credibility she could possibly have; secondly, she’s a (gulp!) paid professional doing her job FOR MONEY. Independent of her husband, if applicable! 
If anything, I’m hoping it’s doing the adult Duggar kids good seeing women (on both sides of the case) in the workplace and doing real work.  I hope minds are blown.

[SnapHappy]

Derrick looks like he's going to be sitting on that prison bus next to Josh, with that haircut.  Jeez, did Jill hack it off it with Sam's toddler scissors?

[Cinnabon]

1 minute ago, SnapHappy said:

Derrick looks like he's going to be sitting on that prison bus next to Josh, with that haircut.  Jeez, did Jill hack it off it with Sam's toddler scissors?

Maybe she should have asked Jessa for her hair cutting “expertise” 😆.

[RedDelicious]

Is anyone else experiencing major anxiety today? I know I am. Deep breaths.

[Tabbygirl521]

2 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

Jim Holt was called to testify too and recalled the discussion about Linux OS. and quoted Josh as saying "well how would I set that up" 11 years ago

Hmmm, why were they even wondering about it? I know, that’s probably been covered here somewhere. I am way behind on these posts. 

[Dianaofthehunt]

1 minute ago, RedDelicious said:

Is anyone else experiencing major anxiety today? I know I am. Deep breaths.

Yes; I’m not getting a lick of work done, and my ass is tired from being clenched.

[RedDelicious]

14 minutes ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

Yes; I’m not getting a lick of work done, and my ass is tired from being clenched.

Peace be with you, and let's hope that justice is served up like chickenetti on a silver platter.

ETA: I also just want all of you to know that Anna's Chickenetti is really a recipe by Lynne Spears, mother of Britney, and was published in YM magazine over 20 years ago. Now I'm confident the recipe is not original, it was probably a 1970s Kraft recipe from the side of a box, and I admit to having made it and always calling it Britney Spears Chicken Spaghetti 😆

Edited December 6, 2021 by RedDelicious

[MargeGunderson]

It seems like the defense is trying to confuse the jurors about the router in hopes of generating “reasonable doubt.” The router could show that other devices used it to connect to the internet, but that doesn’t negate the fact that the CSA files were found on the computer in Josh’s office. Same with demonstrating that there was no CSA on the Mac or phone - it has no bearing on the fact that it was found on another device that Josh used. Of course it wasn’t on the Mac or phone, that’s what Anna checks. She would presumably not being going into Josh’s office to check that device. 

[mittsigirl]

I just wish they wouldn't have left that darn router behind, that's what is making me very nervous. And there sure could be a doppelganger of Josh on that jury who thinks they are the same kind of know-it-all and could influence the rest of the jury. Ugh, it's far from being 5 o'clock here, but my wine glass has found me early today.

[Zella]

I wonder if James and Jason got a note from someone to not pull a Justin for the cameras. They looked pretty serious in the lunch break pictures. 

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

I wonder if James and Jason got a note from someone to not pull a Justin for the cameras. They looked pretty serious in the lunch break pictures. 

Is that Laura behind them?

[Zella]

I'm not seeing a lot of commentary on Josh having VLC player, but that tells me he watches a lot of something online. It's not my preferred media player, but it will play files that elude the one I prefer (PowerDVD). It doesn't mean you are watching anything disgusting, but people with the alleged lack of tech knowledge his defense is claiming he had don't have VLC on their computer, imo. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Zella

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

I'm not seeing a lot of commentary on Josh having VLC player, but that tells me he watches a lot of something online. It's not my preferred media player, but it will play files that eludes the one I prefer (PowerDVD). It doesn't mean you are watching anything disgusting, but people with the alleged lack of tech knowledge his defense is claiming he had don't have VLC on their computer, imo. 

I used to use VLC all of the time, because it didn't have codec incompatibilities, which you run into when downloading any tv show or movie. I'm the same age as Josh, and that was the player of choice when I was a teen/young adult, so it may just be a brand loyalty thing. 

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I used to use VLC all of the time, because it didn't have codec incompatibilities, which you run into when downloading any tv show or movie. I'm the same age as Josh, and that was the player of choice when I was a teen/young adult, so it may just be a brand loyalty thing. 

Right but my point is that it is something you have to download. People I know who don't torrent don't have that on their computer. Their defense has been poor homeschooled Josh Duggar lacks the technical know how to do any of this stuff, but I think the VLC program shows that he knows more than they are depicting. 

It is certainly a workhorse. I just think the interface is hideous looking and only use it when MKV files don't want to cooperate. Lol

Edited December 6, 2021 by Zella

[emmawoodhouse]

12 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Is that Laura behind them?

Yes, Laura is there.

[Madtown]

[Tuxcat]

From Carrie Jernigan's lunchtime live she said a few things to note. Number one, her impression is that the family is all close and that there didn't seem to be any ill will toward Josh even after the Holt testimony. Of course that's just her impression. Hard to tell. They all sat on the front row. She said Mrs. Holt cried several times and said she didn't want to testify and that she still loves Josh. She also mentioned the "money" thing but it seems that Holt was referring to "in the past" - probably tabloids.

The federal agents who testified are still in the gallery so they will surely be called back up at some point. Carrie has a degree in computer science but admitted she was confused. But to her - it was a mistake not to take the router - because at the very least you could see how many devices were connected at any given time. It would help to eliminate this whole remote theory. The defense is building a case that Josh was set up. She also mentioned, like the Sun article, that they argued that Josh wouldn't have needed uTorrent (I think she meant TOR) because he had transmission. But as others have said, that's silly since he had TOR on his MacBook - it's obviously what he prefers. She said that the witness testified that using the universal player with something else - left a computer "extremely vulnerable." Again, trying to build the hacking case. She did say something about the quantity of CSAM being in question - which will be addressed in a later post. 

And then there is the mystery thumb drive with one filed named "quiz" which she argued is not the same as the "quiz mommy Amy" file on the Mac. So no one knows what those files were that were loaded on the same day that linux was.

Again, this is all her notes. I think we are getting a bunch of jumbled reporting like before - alot of it misunderstood by the reporter.

[mittsigirl]

Please don't throw rotten tomatoes at me, but I am just a mom, wife and dog nutritionist, my law knowledge comes from Law and Order SUV. Because so much has been said about not having that router to examine, can the router be taken now to be examined, or is that just wishful thinking and it's far too late to bring that in now? And I am just new to learning about the CLOUD, but would there not be any information about what he was accessing stored there? Forgive me for being so dumb:)

[GeeGolly]

Gotta question - please note my lack of computer knowledge and lack of CSA/porn knowledge and my wildly speculative imagination.

Is it possible Josh was trying to make porn using Amy's images?