Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[CandyCaneTree]

Since Anna was in court today which sucker was lucky enough to watch the kids?

[hathorlive]

Josh is in serious trouble.  I can't see that the Franks hearing will go his way.  As long as LE was acting in good faith, there shouldn't be an issue with the warrant.  Tomorrow will be interesting but today was brutal.  I think at this point, Josh has to seriously consider taking a plea deal.  He is not going to fair well in a jury trial.

[CandyCaneTree]

I wish that I lived in Arkansas I would beg , borrow , steal and lie to be on the jury. 

[hathorlive]

8 minutes ago, CandyCaneTree said:

I wish that I lived in Arkansas I would beg , borrow , steal and lie to be on the jury. 

I've testified in front of a lot of juries.  The one thing they have in common is the way they look at a defendant after they've seen what he downloaded.   The look of disgust and sadness is obvious.

[GeeGolly]

18 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

I've testified in front of a lot of juries.  The one thing they have in common is the way they look at a defendant after they've seen what he downloaded.   The look of disgust and sadness is obvious.

Yea, that's a jury panel I'd never want to sit on. Kudos to you and the jurors who put these guys where they belong.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, BigBingerBro said:

Court denies Josh Duggar’s motions to toss photographs, dismiss child porn case

That's great news!

[Quilt Fairy]

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

Tomorrow will be interesting but today was brutal.

The hearing is continuing to tomorrow?

[emmawoodhouse]

For those who don't want to sift through Reddit.

 

[libgirl2]

4 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

For those who don't want to sift through Reddit.

 

Those are two very smug faces. 

[Lisa418722]

Once upon a time I had sympathy for Anna, but with this last scandal I have lost any sympathy I had for her.  Seeing her smug face makes me wish they had worn masks, at least then we wouldn't see their faces.  I hope that this is just a bad screenshot and she did look worried, but somehow I think the smug look on her face stayed there.  

[BigBingerBro]

My view is that by bringing smug big pregnant Anna into court they thought the judge would sympathize with Pest.  Seems like their logic anyway.   Meanwhile, he looks like absolute sh*t.

[BigBingerBro]

[ginger90]

[Trillium]

They both deserve a punch in their gross  smug faces. I get the impression that if he was on trial for murder, her face would look the same. They suck and deserve each other. Gross. 

[Gigi43]

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

That Reddit Duggar Snark picture appears to be a shot of live video on someone's TV screen. @Zella, do you know if this getting a lot of local coverage?

Anna is still "big pregnant", if the video was actually of yesterday. I can't imagine either of them of feeling too smug at this point. Oh the lies Anna must be telling herself to stand by Josh at this point.

 

 

When is she due? November?

 

Josh and Anna still probably think they can get out of it. Also, I suspect Anna and Josh are of the mindset you see of SVU perps (who are representative of some pedos irl who pride themselves on "look don't touch") that Josh "only looked" and therefore is A) doing better than he did as a kid and B) Isn't as bad as the people who actually took the pictures/video (y'know, the video that's considered to be one of the worst out there)/people who "actually touch" children (jeez, I feel sick even typing this), but I really do think they still are smug enough to go with "only looking" and therefore not as bad, if Anna's being honest with herself that it was Josh who DL'd it and Josh, well, he's just smug from a lifetime of skating and thinks he's still a kid and Mom and Dad will make this go away via lawyers, on top of telling himself he's "only looking."

 

I thought Josh was looking to throw Josiah under the bus but it's someone in Anna's family? What a guy. 

[BigBingerBro]

Duggar's lawyers contend agents intentionally misled federal judge in child pornography case

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, BigBingerBro said:

I still wonder what she knows about what was in the files or whether he convinced her that he didn't even do this. If she knows he downloaded it, is idiot, thoughtless Anna thinking "sexy time" or does she realize that much of it is hideous torture? 

I expect the lawyer told them to look dignified and confident. Interesting that their interpretation of that is "insufferably smug." And flirty, in this case.  

[BucFan]

That pig should shave. Does he think he’s Don Johnson from Miami Vice? 

[farmgal4]

10 hours ago, CandyCaneTree said:

I was on Reddit Duggar Snark and there was a photo of Smuggar and Anna leaving the courthouse and Anna looked as smug as he did. 

She has completely ruined her reputation by continuing to support the sick POS.  I’m sure that there are hardcore fundies who admire her for standing by her man, but IMO the majority of people think that she’s close to being just as twisted as he is.

[iwantcookies]

His hand is in his pocket, not even holding her hand.

Smuggar and Smuggara indeed.

Anna is as soulless and creepy as Josh. They deserve each other.

Edited September 28, 2021 by iwantcookies

[Rootbeer]

10 hours ago, hathorlive said:

Josh is in serious trouble.  I can't see that the Franks hearing will go his way.  As long as LE was acting in good faith, there shouldn't be an issue with the warrant.  Tomorrow will be interesting but today was brutal.  I think at this point, Josh has to seriously consider taking a plea deal.  He is not going to fair well in a jury trial.

Thank you for your insight into this terrible world.  I've learned a lot about the justice system from your breakdown of this case and I am very grateful that there are people like you willing to do battle against these horrific criminals.

[libgirl2]

49 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I expect the lawyer told them to look dignified and confident. Interesting that their interpretation of that is "insufferably smug." And flirty, in this case.  

I think you might be right, maybe in her case.... but it doesn't come off as confident, it comes off as smug and arrogant. 

[Albanyguy]

3 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

My view is that by bringing smug big pregnant Anna into court they thought the judge would sympathize with Pest.  Seems like their logic anyway.   Meanwhile, he looks like absolute sh*t.

They’re probably hoping that she can hang on until the trial, so that she can go into labor in the court room and give birth in the jury box.

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, farmgal4 said:

She has completely ruined her reputation by continuing to support the sick POS.  I’m sure that there are hardcore fundies who admire her for standing by her man, but IMO the majority of people think that she’s close to being just as twisted as he is.

Conversely in Anna's mind the narrative is likely to be that she's being persecuted for adhering to her beliefs, as is her husband.  She may well see herself as a righteous martyr.

[IndianPaintbrush]

1 hour ago, BucFan said:

That pig should shave. Does he think he’s Don Johnson from Miami Vice? 

Seriously, it is not that hard to shave and it shows real laziness/hubris on the part of Josh and his defense team. The first rule of criminal defense is that you shouldn't appear in court looking exactly like the kind of person who would do what you're charged with.

[Tikichick]

On 9/26/2021 at 5:01 PM, Absolom said:

My daughter, a lawyer, and I have had that discussion a few different ways.  She isn't the type lawyer that Jim Bob hired 95% of the time.  She prefers to lay it out for the client that this motion has a .1% chance of working and will cost you about $x to prepare and defend.  If they really want to do it, she will.  Everyone is entitled to a zealous defense and a lot of people want the best or most defense that they can afford.  Some lawyers seek clients who want that kind of defense and that's the difference as my daughter sees it.  She'd rather not have the Josh/JB types as clients.  She'd rather not be filing motions that to her look like a waste of her time and the court's time and the client's money.  It's part of the job though if the client wants every teeny tiny thread pulled.  

Why JB/Josh are doing this and why they sought out a lawyer where it seems this is one of his specialties is really the question.  I don't think either JB or Josh wants to face what a creep Josh is.  I wouldn't shell out the money this is costing JB for what looks like a likely conviction.  No case is a slam dunk until it's over, but this one is not unusual at all.  I don't think Josh or the case is worth the expense, but that's my opinion.  I think JB should have said if you did it, tell me and we'll find someone to get you the best plea deal we can, but if you did the crime, you have to accept the consequences.  

I think the worst possible scenario for JB and Josh is if the lawyer does find a way to get the case tossed or bamboozles a jury.  Josh can giggle he got away with it and will continue down the path of perversion and JB will be convinced of his own wisdom and power.

 

On 9/26/2021 at 7:13 PM, MargeGunderson said:

For the lawyers and lawyer-adjacent here, a question. If Josh (and JB) tell the lawyers to pursue some argument and the lawyers don’t, could Josh, if convicted, claim that he didn’t have adequate counsel as a way to appeal the ruling? Maybe that plays a part in the willingness of the lawyers to throw a Hail Mary.

 

18 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Prisons are filled with inmates who all claim they did not have adequate counsel after a guilty verdict.  Josh could try this tactic if he is found guilty, but the odds are low that he will succeed.  The appellate courts are too busy dealing with cases that were truly miscarriages of justice to bother with Josh.  Also, appeals cost.  At some point, JB will have to cut his losses.

Josh's defense team signed onto this case knowing what it's about and having no doubt their client wants to be acquitted.   They also know the odds and are aware they either need to find a kill shot to prevent the prosecution from being able to use most or all of the evidence or they are fighting a battle to minimize the damage, get him the lowest sentence possible -- and hopefully open some chinks and cracks for appellate attorneys to go to work.   The motion hearings on their face aren't a total failure simply because they have been denied.   They can also be ripe for appellate issues.   Pretrial motions are fertile appellate grounds.

A lawyer does not have to file every motion and make every argument a client suggests.  Clients float pie in the sky ideas all the time -- the lawyers are the ones who know the legalities.  Given the reputation and the fact Josh's team is filing a string of pretrial motions it's not at all likely this opens up an appellate issue in this case. 

Yes, appeals courts are clogged, but it's not a matter of courts being too busy to deal with something and therefore an appeal being denied for consideration.   If there are potentially ripe appellate issues to be considered the courts accept the case for appeal.  As far as $$ being a bar, no.   If Josh is convicted of these charges he likely will automatically qualify for an appeal even without request -- and counsel will be provided if he can't afford it  -- which in his case with no means of independent income and dozens of children to support won't be a high bar.  JB's assets cannot be considered regarding what Josh can afford.  

[Insert Username]

17 hours ago, hathorlive said:

Actually, there are ways to find pointers to dark web addresses.  That's why you use google.  And that's why you can bet Josh used Google to find sites that referenced what he wants, because otherwise, he'd have to be freaking omniscient to know where to go.  However, my reading of the information indicates that some of the CP was downloaded via bit torrent, which is not a dark web app.  So he probably got the series names from somewhere and that somewhere was probably Google. 

Correct - what I meant is that once you are on the dark web, there is no search function. You use the regular web to find where you are going - those "pointers"  There are lots of places to find these on the regular web. He can't use the excuse that he was "accidentally" on the dark web and "accidentally" stumbled across and downloaded CP while looking for something innocuous (if there is such a thing on the DW) If he got it from bit torrent. that is even worse!

 

ETA: He should have at least shaved and looked like he cared. Anna looks like hell, even for being 100 months pregnant with her 7th kid. It will also be hard for him to claim ineffective counsel when he basically has the best in the biz. That appeal generally only succeeds with people using overworked and/or inexperienced public defenders.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Insert Username

[iwantcookies]

2 hours ago, BucFan said:

That pig should shave. Does he think he’s Don Johnson from Miami Vice? 

He is no Rico Suave! Josh looks exactly what he is. 

[Minivanessa]

32 minutes ago, Insert Username said:

It will also be hard for him to claim ineffective counsel when he basically has the best in the biz. That appeal generally only succeeds with people using overworked and/or inexperienced public defenders.

That's my take on it too. His lawyers have been aggressive with their motions practice in his case, and they are as noted considered to be among the best in the biz.

Ineffective assistance of counsel is rarely a basis for reversing convictions and as noted often involves inexperienced/overworked trial counsel. Here's a very general statement of what's required:  "To prove ineffective assistance [on appeal], a defendant must show (1) that their trial lawyer's performance fell below an 'objective standard of reasonableness' and (2) "' reasonable probability that, but for counsel's unprofessional errors, the result of the proceeding would have been different.'"  Please note, this is a very general statement offered for the purpose of perspective.

Typical examples of ineffective assistance of counsel are that the lawyer had a conflict of interest (represented a co-defendant or witness), failed to investigate the case, or failed to interview potential exculpatory/alibi witnesses. It has to be something that could have changed the outcome of the case (acquittal, conviction of lesser offense, or the like) when looked at reasonably. 

Josh's lawyers appear to be working hard on his case. I doubt they are going to lay down on the job, fail to investigate the case, or leave any reasonably viable legal/factual argument out of their case. 

ETA: Just a note. If a defendant wins reversal of their conviction on the basis of ineffective assistance of counsel, that doesn't mean it's all over. The usual result is that the case is sent back down to the trial court for a new trial. In practical terms there may not be another trial - the prosecution and defense may work out an agreement for a plea to a lesser offense and depending on the nature of the crime, release for time served (appeals can take awhile and usually the defendant's in prison doing time, rarely are they out on an appeal bond). Or depending on the facts, the prosecution may realize they can no longer prove the case and just fold, which of course they don't like and don't do very often. Just wanted to note that "winning on appeal" for the defendant in a criminal case rarely is a complete or final win; it goes back to the trial court. All this is speculation as to Josh since we don't know if he'll go to trial or take a plea - but it is a very general comment on how criminal cases like his can proceed.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Jeeves

[Ijustwantsomechips]

59 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Conversely in Anna's mind the narrative is likely to be that she's being persecuted for adhering to her beliefs, as is her husband.  She may well see herself as a righteous martyr.

If that’s the case, then she’s not wrong at all. She is being persecuted for having twisted, disgusting beliefs that led her to marry, stay with and continually procreate with a sleazy, smarmy, sex pest and molester. 

[3 is enough]

Anna’s face looks bloated. Maybe it is just the angle but I don’t think she looked like that with any of her other pregnancies. 

[MamaMax]

4 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Anna’s face looks bloated. Maybe it is just the angle but I don’t think she looked like that with any of her other pregnancies. 

honestly, her blood pressure could be through the roof. i watched the video, that smirk is on her face the whole time. i really do wonder what does through her head, total denial of reality, or a martyr complex, or is she just an asshole too? 

[BigBingerBro]

I wonder if she's just so used to smiling for cameras she just did it as a reflex.  Or it could have been a directive from their legal counsel.  Who knows?  It is very off-putting and certainly has not made anyone feel any sympathy for her.

Edited September 28, 2021 by BigBingerBro

[Snow Fairy]

7 minutes ago, MamaMax said:

honestly, her blood pressure could be through the roof. i watched the video, that smirk is on her face the whole time. i really do wonder what does through her head, total denial of reality, or a martyr complex, or is she just an asshole too? 

Brainwashed into sticking with her husband

Just now, BigBingerBro said:

I wonder if she's just so used to smiling for cameras she just did it as a reflex.  Or it could have been a directive from their legal counsel.  Who knows?  It is very off-putting and certainly has not made anyone feel any sympathy for het/

It also crossed my mind, that she was advised by the counsel to be there, so everyone sees how pregnant she is, sticking to her husband. In the "smile and wave" type of way

[drafan]

5 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

Joshley looks like Bill Murray...not the young Bill Murray...the present one.

Anna in a white dress...OMG...please. And she probably already has given birth to the M and stuffed Mullet's  BreastFriend under her angel costume to garner more sympathy. I swear that gown has wings.

Anna is gross but at least Joshley must like the boobs.

[hathorlive]

12 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

The hearing is continuing to tomorrow?

They are supposed to do the Franks hearing today, to see if the officer's lied or misled the judge in obtaining the search warrant.

[Kellyee]

Does anyone know if Jim Bob and Michelle were at the hearing, or was it just smug-looking Anna standing by Josh?

I wonder if Anna realizes that even on the chance that Josh beats the charges, their lives are still crap. He's unemployable at this point, and he wasn't that employable before. And I'm pretty sure all his siblings hate his guts. And they have 7 kids to feed. 

[Ohiopirate02]

26 minutes ago, Kellyee said:

Does anyone know if Jim Bob and Michelle were at the hearing, or was it just smug-looking Anna standing by Josh?

 

JB, Michelle and their brood are on vacation at the moment.  They are somewhere in America in their RV after visiting South Dakota last week (??).

[BigBingerBro]

Josh Duggar Leaves Court with Pregnant Wife Anna After Push to Dismiss His Child Porn Case Fails

[3 is enough]

So if Jim Bob and Michelle are out west with the younger kids who was watching the M’s while Anna went to court?

[ozziemom]

6 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

So if Jim Bob and Michelle are out west with the younger kids who was watching the M’s while Anna went to court?

Jana and Laura would be my guess. 

[3 is enough]

2 minutes ago, ozziemom said:

Jana and Laura would be my guess. 

Of course!  What was I thinking?  Like Michelle would ever babysit her grandchildren?  She never even took care of her own kids! 🤦🏼‍♀️

[CandyCaneTree]

16 hours ago, hathorlive said:

I've testified in front of a lot of juries.  The one thing they have in common is the way they look at a defendant after they've seen what he downloaded.   The look of disgust and sadness is obvious.

I agree 💯 I work as a CASA Volunteer and I cry myself to sleep when I have to bring a child into the courtroom. 

[hathorlive]

1 minute ago, CandyCaneTree said:

I agree 💯 I work as a CASA Volunteer and I cry myself to sleep when I have to bring a child into the courtroom. 

CASA volunteers are awesome.  They provide so much support for kids.  Thank you for helping them out.  Kids should just not know about the stuff they testify to.   We live in a wonky world.

[Westiepeach]

@Churchhoney, if I never hear the term “erecting his manhood” ever again… it will be way too soon.

[galaxygirl76]

1 hour ago, 3 is enough said:

So if Jim Bob and Michelle are out west with the younger kids who was watching the M’s while Anna went to court?

Mac is probably old enough in their eyes. 

[Quilt Fairy]

59 minutes ago, ozziemom said:

1 hour ago, 3 is enough said:

So if Jim Bob and Michelle are out west with the younger kids who was watching the M’s while Anna went to court?

Jana and Laura would be my guess.

The last I heard, all of the M kids had been farmed out to various relatives so that Anna could spend all her time with Josh in his bunker. 

[JoanArc]

Here's the clip

[Cinnabon]

35 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

The last I heard, all of the M kids had been farmed out to various relatives so that Anna could spend all her time with Josh in his bunker. 

I  bet she’s incredibly uncomfortable sleeping with him in a strange bed while so pregnant. And I don’t care.

[ChiCricket]

On 9/25/2021 at 3:10 PM, Temperance said:

I believe Anna will leave Josh once a plea is entered or he has been found guilty. 

I wonder if Anna is on bedrest for the pregnancy. 

Anna said the baby was due in "fall" so I think she is still pregnant. It is fall though so she could have had the baby.

JB should take care of Anna and the kids regardless of the Josh situation. It's doesn't good for him to abandon his grandchildren and Anna knows a lot about his cult family. 

Still predicting this baby (M7) is going to be named Michelle.

https://www.4029tv.com/article/josh-duggar-in-court-for-hearing/37761044

She's definitely "big pregnant" here and still walking around, so not on bed rest.

Ps apologies if this has been shared already, I'm jumping around the boards.😁

(screenshot from the video)

Edited September 28, 2021 by ChiCricket