Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[TomServo]

It sure sounds like the most likely victims were his sisters. Why else would the victims all tell "James" (Dim Bulb) first? 

 

 

I just realized that "James" in the report is JimBob, not James the Duggar child.  There was another section where I thought the interviewee might have been James based on the answers to some of the questions (Josh was still taking "spelling" as a school subject at 16?).

But yes, if that is an actual police report, then it identifies the alleged victims as "[a long list of redacted names] who live with their parents Michelle and Jim Bob" and the crime scene is reported as the Duggar residence.

If it's true, then it's horrible that they let Josh continue to live in the same house with his victims after sending him off to a friend who does construction for a little while instead of getting him real counseling.  Even if it was just teenaged curiosity, the girls (or boys, or both as the case may be) shouldn't have to deal with the mental hurdles of having someone who treated them that way being in their space every day.

Edited May 21, 2015 by TomServo

[SoSueMe]

I don't know the family as well as other posters so I haven't tried to do the math, but which sister (???eek) might have turned 14 in March of 2002?

[Bean421]

I doubt Gothard allows for this but this whole family is in need of some serious counseling. I've always wanted something to derail the Duggar train, but not like this. Knowing the unwanted attention Anna, the victims, and all of the other kids will receive makes me ill.  Even if everyone "knew and moved on", this is going to bring up a lot of terrible emotions. Maybe they need to fade now, get their shit together, and figure out how they recover as a more functional family.

[BitterApple]

From what we saw on the interview show everyone didn't look happy and more fearful than anything else. You have to wonder if the Radar story has been sitting around someone's desk ready to be leaked and they asked the Duggars for a statement before it went to print? That would make sense as to the tension in that living room that night. Jill was just plain strange. IDK something was off.

Most of us have been watching the Duggars for a long time and are pretty familiar with their affects and personalities. I find it telling that we all pretty much agree there was a seriously weird vibe going on during that interview. Jill especially came off as very strained, like she didn't have enough time to properly rehearse her lines and was afraid of messing up. I swear, whichever Duggar kid has the smarts to write a tell-all is going to make bank. The crazy in that family runs deep. Edited May 21, 2015 by BitterApple

[MMLEsq]

My husband met one of the Prosecutors from Arkansas and she said that he molested his brothers. I have no more info than this for now, and if hubby knew I leaked this he would send me to the prayer closet.

Since the report references vaginas and breasts specifically, I doubt this is true.

[Andrews m]

My guess is that they didn't want it known that he touched boys because that would be it for him in their community. Or maybe he did both. Either way, it shows that if you tell your children that all sex is forbidden, masturbation is a sin, things are going to break down. This is also common in fundamentalist polygamous cults as well.

[Isthisok]

I don't know the family as well as other posters so I haven't tried to do the math, but which sister (???eek) might have turned 14 in March of 2002?

Josh turned 14 in March of 2002. So it had to have been someone other than a sister.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Isthisok

[JoanArc]

 

I think Anna was from a different state far away and made an easy target to try to get Josh into a marriage and away from the temptations and defrauding behavior the devil was trying to lay at his feet, or however the fuck they word this stuff

I totally agree with this.

 

Josh has mentioned his 'struggles' in his testimony - so I'm thinking sh might have asked what they were. Hell, if a family member was a victim, you'd really, really hope she'd take Anna aside.

 

 

Anna seems like a very compassionate person and a good mother, and I am as sad for her as I am for the victims.

Again, totally agree. I'm sure Josiah's courtship just hit the crapper, too.

[VioletNevermind]

Holy shit.  I am blown away.  This is worse than anyone ever thought it would be.  My long-standing "wait and see before condemning" personal policy is pretty shaky right now.  It was nice posting reviews and reading all of yours every week while it lasted.  Even if it's not true, I don't think the public would be willing to look past the mere allegations of incestuous behavior.

Edited May 21, 2015 by SuzyLee

[Fuzzysox]

Since the report references vaginas and breasts specifically, I doubt this is true.

I don't want to speculate but what if it was Jana? I would make sense why she is always so unhappy. She doesn't seem to want anything in life. I wonder if they punished her in their Gothard beliefs for being in her bed sleeping with perhaps a nightgown on. Now they go to bed with street clothes----more weirdness that is starting to make more and more sense.

 

*all this is making me really sick* Please someone free the kids they deserve parents who will love and more importantly take care of them both physically and mentally.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[ChicksDigScars]

If it was his sisters, this would explain Jana being so willing to stay home and be used as a slave, rather than courting and getting the fuck out. If she was violated at a young age. She may be afraid of men. 

 

But there's something that I don't get. Josh was 14 years old when this happened? He was a minor, too. What happened to protecting the identity and sealing the records of juvenile offenders? I'm not defending Josh's actions, but a 14 year old sexually oppressed young man probably needed therapy. And I blame his parent's attitudes about sex. Your oldest child is entering puberty and you probably treated it like he was going to Hell for waking up with a hard on. He had NO ONE, not an older sibling and certainly not his parents, to ask questions about the changes his body was going through.  

 

Well, except Amy. And she probably knew more than the Duggars were willing to have her tell him. 

 

I'm not defending Smuggar's actions. But this sounds like it was a gigantic clusterfuck all around, starting with his PARENTS. The kid needed to talk to a child psychologist to deal with his sexual urges, and his parents have him arrested, instead. He was basically treated like an adult offender at 14? Am I reading this right?  

 

And that something he did at age 14 will probably cost him his job. Not that I stand by anything that hate group represents, but he has a wife and four kids who depend on his income. Especially if this also costs the Duggars their TV revenue.

 

JillyMuffin needs to thank Baby Jesus for her husband's degree and his job at Corporate WalMart. It may become necessary. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by ChicksDigScars

[Barbie]

I just can not believe that they got on TV with this kind of skeleton in their closet and didn't think it would ever come out... 

[Isthisok]

One of the victims is listed as living in Fayetteville, not Springdale like the rest of the victims. Cousin Amy lived in Fayetteville. She was also born in 1988, I think. She was listed as 27 in January of this year, according to some interviews she gave, but I can't find an exact birthdate.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Isthisok

[Wellfleet]

I'm reading more comments and someone posted an old article about the founder of the FRC being caught with a gay escort. *snort* It's always the rightous ones. One again on my tiny tablet can't post t the link.

 

Very true - it's always the ones who shout the loudest and longest about the evils of Evil who get caught with their own hands in the cookie jar.

[MMLEsq]

I don't want to speculate but what if it was Jana? I would make sense why she is always so unhappy. She doesn't seem to want anything in life. I wonder if they punished her in their Gothard beliefs for being in her bed sleeping with perhaps a nightgown on. Now they go to bed with street clothes----more weirdness that is starting to make more and more sense.

 

*all this is making me really sick* Please someone free the kids they deserve parents who will love and more importantly take care of them both physically and mentally.

The problem with redacting documents like these is that you can still make educated guesses based on how many characters have been blacked out.  Since the font used in the report looks like it's monospaced (all the letters are the same width), it would appear that someone with a 4-character name went to Jim Bob and Michelle -- so, probably either Jana or Jill.  (One thing I used to do when I had to redact a document was convert it to a Word doc., if it wasn't one already, and replace the redacted word with *****, so that each time you had to redact something, it was replaced with five asterisks, regardless of how long the word originally was.....but I digress.)  

 

And, I'm with you -- I feel so bad for the older girls, if this is true.  

[Wellfleet]

I still don't think anything serious can come from this story surfacing now. I don't think Josh will lose his job, nor do I think that the Duggars will make any kind of public statement about it.

I'm thinking of the recent allegations against Bill Cosby. It's at least a dozen women from what I remember reading, and the claims are much more serious than what Josh was accused of. But has there been any investigation of the allegations against Cosby? And other than a couple of cancelled television appearances, has anything further happened with him?

 

In Cosby's case, I think the "statue" of limitations has probably expired on many of the alleged incidents. But from the bits I've seen on TV, I think he may be up to his eyeballs in civil lawsuits - at least if there is no statute on time there.

[Sunnybobs]

Ugh it makes for horrid reading and I am surprised how sad I feel for Anna (also as a couple I had really been finding them the most likeable and likely to break a bit free) I wonder if this is why Josh has piled on the pounds and been looking so incredibly stressed and unhealthy lately - stress eating knowing it was coming. The thing about reporting it to the church leaders raises questions - would this mean that Mr Keller might have known about it pre wedding? Is he higher in the Church than the Duggars? What about Gill Bates? I know these are people who have protected and still follow Gothard but would others in their circle have been aware.

[Isthisok]

Somehow the Oprah rumor has made its way back into the story. Most of us never really believed that rumor way back when, but then again, we thought this story was made-up too.

http://www.thesuperficial.com/josh-duggar-police-report-groped-minors-sleep-jim-bob-year-police-turned-in-19-kids-and-counting-incest-sisters-05-2015

[HeyNow]

Wow.  It makes me wonder, more than ever, why Josh and Anna bought that house in Arkansas....

[Aw my lahgs]

I always got a very creepy vibe from Josh, like something was seriously messed up and that the "sin in the camp" was really bad (I get the same creepy vibe from Jim Boob). Until now, this was mere speculation. This is even worse than what I expected. Yuck! 

Shame on Jim Boob and MEchelle to just swipe it under the rug, not getting him proper counseling, letting him continue to live in their house all the while acting like nothing ever happened.

 

Does anyone recall the incident between Jessa and Jana, when Jessa slept in a bunk bed underneath Jana and kicked her the whole night. When Jana complained to her parents, they made her (Jana) give her bully (Jessa) her most prized possession. The jewelry box. Instead of disciplining Jessa & soothing Jana, they punished Jana for complaining. Based on this, one has to wonder if Jim Boob and MEchelle fault the victims in this case & blame them instead of Josh?

Edited May 21, 2015 by Nutella

[JenCarroll]

Somehow the Oprah rumor has made its way back into the story. Most of us never really believed that rumor way back when, but then again, we thought this story was made-up too.

http://www.thesuperficial.com/josh-duggar-police-report-groped-minors-sleep-jim-bob-year-police-turned-in-19-kids-and-counting-incest-sisters-05-2015

The "Oprah rumor" is part of the police report, so -- not so much a rumor.

[Missy Vixen]

Isthisok, you just beat me to it. Names are blacked out, but the report strongly suggests that incest was at play here. This will do more than tarnish the Duggars squeaky clean image. It will destroy it.

It's enough to get them cancelled. Period.

 

And Anna is not my favorite, but I am so sad for her right now. I can't imagine what kind of hell the past 24 hours has been for her.

[BitterApple]

If you read through the police report it's clear one of the victims is a Duggar girl. At several points identifiers like "her" and "his" weren't blacked out. During a portion of the victim statements it said something like "*blacked-out-name* says she lives at home with her parents, JimBob and Michelle Duggar." I also noticed that the blacked out female names are very short, three or four letters at most. That leaves Jana, Jill and Amy. It's not looking good for Josh.

[Isthisok]

The "Oprah rumor" is part of the police report, so -- not so much a rumor.

I totally missed that (Read the report on my iPhone). This is all insane. So was all the crazy Razing Ruth crap true all along?

[ChicksDigScars]

On page 11 of the report it says "the alleged victims are <two words redacted>, <two words redacted>, <two words redacted> and <two words redacted>, who live with their parents, Jim Bob and Michelle <redacted>." 

 

Holy crap. Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger?  Jim Bob essentially panicked and hauled him off to the police. 

[Wellfleet]

ASbsolutely wild theory:    JimBoob turned in his son in 2005 for something the rest of us consider normal, kissing, hugging, whatever.   Why?  Because it was another form of control of his child.   You behaved in a way that I the head of household consider wrong, now you must be punished.   Nothing happened because the rest of the world is sane compared to the Duggars.   The fundies shunned JB because they saw was a moron he was and dangerous to the cause.   No one blaed Josh because his dad was an idiot.

 

Fast forward to 2015 and the story comes out.   Who did it?   Well, Josh has been acting more independent.   Even liking his FRC job and showing he is not coming back to Arkansas and living under JB's thumb anymore.   So JB leaks the story.    He hopes it will get more attention and cost Josh his job.   Thereby giving Josh no choice but to slink back to Arksansas so JB can show how right he is once again that leaving his authority only leads to woe.

 

Considering how competitive JB is and how much attentionJosh gets apart from being just 1 of 19, I can see JB's insecurities taking over.  "Oh my goodness, my son is going to overshadow me, must stop this now."   So he does something like this.

 

Sorry to say I would not be shocked if this turned out to be the case. It would be a little startling to think that Boob could come up with such a crafty idea - he definitely doesn't give off the "crafty" vibe. But I think it could be possible. Right now it could be anything though... 

[Aw my lahgs]

I sincerely hope TLC pulls a Honey Boo Boo on this family for their own dignity. I pray they get the girls that were victims the much needed therapy.

Sorry to say I would not be shocked if this turned out to be the case. It would be a little startling to think that Boob could come up with such a crafty idea - he definitely doesn't give off the "crafty" vibe. But I think it could be possible. Right now it could be anything though... 

 

The police report has since been published, you can read it yourself.... http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/bombshell-duggar-police-report-jim-bob-duggar-didn-t-report-son-josh-s-alleged-sex-offenses-for-more-than-a-year-58906 He was not fooling around with some teen his own age but with a handful of his sisters.

[JenCarroll]

It's interesting that during the victim (witness?) interviews, the investigator showed some of the kids both male and female anatomical drawings, and others only female. I have to think some of those victims/witnesses were boys. Because there's no hint of anything like the perpetrator exposing his own genitals.

This is bad. I feel sorry for all of them, Josh included (but not Jim Bob or Michelle).

[Isthisok]

I think Jana, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Amy, who was the same age as Josh and lived in Fayetteville. Poor Jana. Poor, poor Jana. Wasn't she also at Journey to the Heart when the Gothard sex scandal broke?

[VioletNevermind]

Instead of disciplining Jessa & soothing Jana, they punished Jana for complaining. Based on this, one has to wonder if Jim Boob and MEchelle fault the victims in this case & blame them instead of Josh?

 

Also, as fundies, the girls are taught to respect and obey their menfolk at all costs, which explains how the girls "forgave" him and continue to associate with him to this day (if this is all true, of course).  I can picture MEchelle blaming the girls for the impure thoughts their visible elbows or shins stirred up in Josh, making it inevitable that he would have to find a way to fulfill them.  The real victims in this are the girls who may have been touched, Anna, and her children- in that order.  Their lives are about to be turned upside down in the worst possible way.  

 

When the dust settles, if this is all true, I hope Jana tells her parents to stick their side hugs and jurisdictions up their asses sideways and gets the hell out of there.

Edited May 21, 2015 by SuzyLee

[ChicksDigScars]

Holy shit (again). On page 15, when Jim Bob went to the church elders, they discussed a treatment program for Josh (something that should have been done), but the church elders shot it down. One of the elders was an ex-prison guard and told him that "programs for juveniles were finishing schools where offenders learn how to offend from other offenders." HOLY CRAP, what fucking ignorance. So, Josh and whoever he inappropriately touched, never got any kind of therapy. I don't count Journey of the Heart, as qualified therapy.

 

Way to go, Parents of the Year.

[Guest]

ASbsolutely wild theory:    JimBoob turned in his son in 2005 for something the rest of us consider normal, kissing, hugging, whatever.   Why?  Because it was another form of control of his child.

I don't believe this is at all true. The police were considering prosecuting what occurred as sexual assault in the fourth degree. (Which the state of Connecticut defines as such. (I imagine the same definition applies in Arkansas.) If I were a teen fooling around with another teen with consent, there's no crime involved. In this case, there was no consent. Despite the charges being serious, and the case forgotten (or ignored) by the officer, Child Abuse services was alerted once the allegations were reviewed by someone else (and ultimately dropped because of the statute of limitations). Regardless, this was not a case of Jim Bob trying to punish his kid for doing what kids who hate Jesus do. Something happened. And I give Jim Bob credit for turning Josh in and trying to do the right thing.

 

As for not having documents to look at, it's fairly safe to say that even tabloids should be given the benefit of the doubt when this type of shit is uncovered. If it were not true, the Duggars would be billionaires from the ensuing, and rightful, lawsuit.

[Fuzzysox]

Somehow the Oprah rumor has made its way back into the story. Most of us never really believed that rumor way back when, but then again, we thought this story was made-up too.

http://www.thesuperficial.com/josh-duggar-police-report-groped-minors-sleep-jim-bob-year-police-turned-in-19-kids-and-counting-incest-sisters-05-2015

A long while back someone sent me a message about this Oprah story saying it was a myth while on TWOP. I didn't think much about it then since it seemed to be untrue but now I'm not so sure. If Oprah was involved, herself being a victim of abuse, I think she would have rallied harder to expose the story and get the kids to a safe house. JMHO

[Spencer Hastings]

This is terrible. I thought we were just discussing those tired campaign rumors and then all of a sudden I'm wanting to cry for all of those girls and Anna. Poor Anna. Part of me hopes that she knew about this because to be blindsided suddenly would just tear her whole world apart. Like her or not, nobody deserves this.

[Missy Vixen]

This is bad. I feel sorry for all of them, Josh included (but not Jim Bob or Michelle).

And this puts a new spin on Jim Boob and J-Chelle's traveling as well. IMHO.

 

I hope TLC will step in and finally get those kids the professional help they need.

[Literata]

 

I think Jana, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Amy, who was the same age as Josh and lived in Fayetteville. Poor Jana. Poor, poor Jana. Wasn't she also at Journey to the Heart when the Gothard sex scandal broke?

I read that report and literally felt tears come. Boob and MEchelle deserve any consequence that comes their way, and shame, SHAME on them for not getting Josh the help he needed and getting their daughters (and Amy, if she was impacted as well) to counseling STAT. OMG, those poor girls. No wonder Jana, as she shared in girls' book, "had a problem with someone in (her) family." Poor Anna, and her poor kids. I am just sick.

 

ETA: If this happened, no wonder Jana won't leave home. Even though Josh isn't there anymore, she knows what potentially could happen to her little sisters at the hands of someone else.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Literata

[BitterApple]

So the big question, is who made the initial call to authorites? My interpretation is that Boob only brought Josh into the police station after an anonymous call was placed to the abuse hotline.

Either way the Duggars are fucked. There's no running away from this one. Josh clearly admitted to molesting several of his siblings. I just wonder if Anna was made privy to all this info before she agreed to marry Josh. My guess is no.

[SoSueMe]

On page 11 of the report it says "the alleged victims are <two words redacted>, <two words redacted>, <two words redacted> and <two words redacted>, who live with their parents, Jim Bob and Michelle <redacted>." 

 

Holy crap. Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger?  Jim Bob essentially panicked and hauled him off to the police.

Yeah, we're talking sisters, folks, and maybe Amy (Fayetteville?).

[ChicksDigScars]

No wonder Jana, as she shared in girls' book, "had a problem with someone in (her) family."

 

Boom. And there it is. I'm thinking that Jana was the main victim. The other girls have moved on while she still looks haunted. And she's the only one of the girls who has been sent to reprogramming camp. The other girls pushed it to the back of their minds while Jana still had nightmares, or outbursts, or mood swings or any kind of justifiable reaction that an untreated victim has? There has to be a reason she was sent to Journey of the Heart and the others were not. 

 

I find myself more pissed at JB and Michelle than Josh. A fourteen year old, sexually confused and repressed boy?  These idiots did not get ANY of the kids involved in this, proper therapy. They sent them to some Gothard approved religious deprogramming camp and then claimed in the report that they are confident that everything is back to normal. Everyone is cured! Yay! Now we can get back to charting Mama's menstrual cycle and having everyone in the house know when Daddy is sexing up Mama to bring more blessings into the dysfunction. 

 

No wonder these kids are so confused. And the ones who are not, can't wait to find someone to marry so they can get the fuck OUT.

Edited May 21, 2015 by ChicksDigScars

[Fuzzysox]

This is terrible. I thought we were just discussing those tired campaign rumors and then all of a sudden I'm wanting to cry for all of those girls and Anna. Poor Anna. Part of me hopes that she knew about this because to be blindsided suddenly would just tear her whole world apart. Like her or not, nobody deserves this.

I think we are all sitting here worried about the girls as well as the boys in that family. It's over for them. I hope they saved their money because I doubt America will let this go. 

 

If this is true then why wasn't DCFS involved? I know we aren't supposed to talk about DCFS but this is an important issue that needs answers as we all try to understand what the heck happened. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[Isthisok]

Have any of the Duggars responded to this yet?

[BitterApple]

As sad as this story is, it puts so much of their family dynamics into perspective. I can see Michelle blaming the girls and taking Josh's side. I can also see Boob trying to make up for some of the damage by gifting the girls cars and McMansions.

Not only is Anna likely blindsided by this but Derick and Bin as well. Derick barely knew Jill when he married her so there's no way they were able to discuss something so intimate with chaperones around. Since many women are afraid of being viewed as "damaged goods" I doubt it came up after marriage as well.

Edited May 21, 2015 by BitterApple

[Isthisok]

I hope TLC provides real counseling to the children, like they made available to Honey Boo Boo's family. I hope they force them to see an outside counselor to collect their next paycheck. Not a Church-of-the-Basement approved pseudotherapist that never graduated high school.

[java23]

an old police report, no charges ever filed, Josh was a minor, the statute of limitations is over, children and family services not involved. Actual evidence anything occurred? 

I don't see anything coming of it, except maybe a defamation case.

[CofCinci]

So the big question, is who made the initial call to authorites? My interpretation is that Boob only brought Josh into the police station after an anonymous call was placed to the abuse hotline.

I think the initial call was made by whoever found the girls' "please help us" letter in the book??

Earlier today I felt bad for Josh. Now I feel sick to my stomach.

Poor Jana is so traumatized by the abuse that she is hypervigilant with the safety of her little sisters. She'd rather sacrifice her young adulthood than to leave her little sisters to the care of her carefree parents.

I don't think Jinger is a possible victim because her name is too long. Jana, Jill, Amy and maybe Jessa.

Edited May 21, 2015 by CofCinci

[SoSueMe]

Gosh, if this is true it is very very sad. There's a time for schadenfruede, but to me this isn't it. Anna and the kids, my heart breaks for them and I can't imagine what twisted guilt might have been heaped on the girls through the years as a result of being victimized.

[3 is enough]

Wow, just wow.  Left for a quick errand and came back to this?

 

Those poor girls. I can't even imagine.  No support at all, and probably made to feel that this was somehow their fault?  That explains the transition from nightgowns to sleeping in clothes.  Also explains the fact that the girls share a room.  Safety in numbers, after all.

 

Poor Anna.  Very pregnant and hit with this bombshell? 

 

As far as Jim Bob and Michelle are concerned I have no words.  Worst.parents.ever.

 

I always thought the rumors were just that.  Silly me.

 

Surely this must be addressed. Some sort of statement, TLC has to say something?  

 

Jessa and Derick are still posting random instagram photos like nothing is wrong.

[MMLEsq]

Josh tweeted this on May 17th:  "Do right and risk the consequences. - Sam Houston"

 

https://twitter.com/joshduggar

 

Ironic.

 

If a person is honest and truly repentant, the public will forgive almost anything.  If the family would just come clean about what happened, openly and honestly (not necessarily going into graphic details), but just admit that there was a problem, it could help so many others.  Use the situation to encourage victims to come forward and perpetrators to seek help.  Do the right thing now, even if they didn't necessarily do the right thing back then.

 

My big fear is that the girls will somehow be labeled "damaged goods" by all this.   

[Seashell Lover]

No wonder Jana is like she is because she feels she is now tainted.

[CofCinci]

As far as Jim Bob and Michelle are concerned I have no words. Worst.parents.ever.

They are ducking terrible! First Jim Bob tells the investigators that they sent Josh to a Christian program where they mix counseling with hard labor. Then, Michelle later says "nah, we sent him to go remodel a friend's house." Then, JB says I'm not speaking to you all without an attorney.

How did this case fall through the cracks?!! WTH.