Season 4 Discussion

[wendyg]

Watching this episode was excruciatingly uncomfortable for me. I guess it was meant to be a light-hearted moment of escape, like the hijinks stealing maple syrup last year (which I also really disliked), but as much as I support legalizing marijuana (especially for medical use) I find it hard to believe that in that group of alcoholics and drug addicts not *one* will suffer further consequences or start telling themselves, "Well, I was high that time and nothing bad happened, so I could do it again once in a while."

[ExplainItAgain]

12 hours ago, wendyg said:

"Well, I was high that time and nothing bad happened, so I could do it again once in a while."

I agree. I think Jill is the most vulnerable here too - with all the emotions of losing the baby. Not sure if they'll go this route or not.

[iMonrey]

They never did revisit what happened to Regina (the one played by Octavia Spencer) when she started drinking again. Probably hard to get her back on the show again, but that was a dropped plot line.

[ExplainItAgain]

David James Elliott! Swoon. Bonnie, you fool! Go for Joe! (I did feel a little bad that Adam assumed it was because of the wheelchair.)

We all knew the drinking was going to be a problem sooner or later.

[greekmom]

11 hours ago, ExplainItAgain said:

David James Elliott! Swoon. Bonnie, you fool! Go for Joe! (I did feel a little bad that Adam assumed it was because of the wheelchair.)

We all knew the drinking was going to be a problem sooner or later.

Adam isn't just a social drinker. He's a controlled alcoholic and recreational drug user. The relationship was doomed from the beginning.  Plus he always made fun of Bonnie's AA group.

[Sarahsmile416]

33 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Adam isn't just a social drinker. He's a controlled alcoholic and recreational drug user. The relationship was doomed from the beginning.  Plus he always made fun of Bonnie's AA group.

Exactly. The fact is, she should have ended it a long time ago. She already struggles with her sobriety and you are sticking her with someone who drinks frequently and smokes pot around her. I can't believe Marjorie or any of the other ladies haven't said anything to her about that.  

Joe would have been a good fit for her - I just wish they had not framed the episode in that way. If they had them as friends and then realize Adam wasn't a good idea for her then it could've worked better. 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Sarahsmile416

[Packerbrewerbadger]

I loved Adam his first season and their chemistry was off the charts. Their banter was clever and hilarious so I was happy they brought him back.   But the writers turned him into such a jerk I'm surprised they have lasted this long.  I wish they could have kept it a good storyline without resorting to character destruction .

[MaryMitch]

When Bonnie went into the bedroom to wake Adam, I thought he was going to be dead. And I thought, "well, I didn't see that coming!"

I'm glad to see the end of Adam, and I'm glad Bonnie didn't backslide due to his influence.

[hnygrl]

Well. Did not see that coming. We all figured BONNIE would do the dumping, that she would see the difference between the two, and realize that, while she loves Adam, he wasn't good for her and end it.

Did NOT expect ADAM to be such a huge dick. Seriously. He's got all  this hate on for AA and the AA crowd. Nothing good to say about it even though it's her whole life now. Drunk 2/3 of the time, hungover the last 1/3rd. And when she mentions the drinking, he dumps her. DUMPS HER cause it bothers her he gets wasted. So. That's love huh?

I think Bonnie's sobriety, and the fact that Adam is the first guy since baby daddy died that she's met, dated, and loved stone cold sober, is a lot of the reason she put up with so much.

Now we get 2 or 3 episodes of "poor Bonnie' Begging Adam to take her back and him not answering the phone.

I hope this story arc ends with Bonnie realizing how toxic they were as a couple, otherwise I may have to mentally kick some writers' asses. What a wasted opportunity. 

[iMonrey]

Yeah, my gut reaction was that Joe was better suited to her than Adam, but on the other hand Joe is probably a lot more stable than Bonnie so maybe not. I think the reason Bonnie and Adam worked is because he's more "broken," like she is, for lack of a better word. Then Adam turns out to be kind of a huge jerk, so  - I give up.

[Chaos Theory]

I think this last episode was a good indicator of where Bonnie is in her life compared to Adam and why they don't work even if they do love each other.  Adam likes to drink and he isn't an alcoholic so he should be allowed to but he feels alone when he drinks with Bonnie there so he might overindulge more The he might have otherwise.  Bonnie feels alone being the sober one sitting next to a guy getting drunk all the time.

They are just in two different places in their lives.  

[possibilities]

I think they were both at fault, to be honest. They didn't have any problem-solving or negotiation skills between them, and any long term relationship is going to require some ability to handle differences and conflicts.

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I think they were both at fault, to be honest. They didn't have any problem-solving or negotiation skills between them, and any long term relationship is going to require some ability to handle differences and conflicts.

Exactly - they both were not happy with certain aspects of their relationship yet did not bring it up until it was too late i.e. in a situation way too volatile for rational problem solving. I wish we had seen some of that instead (even if it would not have worked out in the long run) instead of this insta-relationship kaboom.

In defense of Adam: I can't remember him being dismissive about the AA group, maybe I missed it. I thought he was really concerned for all of them when he realized what Bonnie had done in last week's episode.

Loved Marjorie's admission at the end of deserving her food being spilled on her - she really deserved it.

Edited February 10, 2017 by MissLucas

[Canada]

I'm so glad Adam is gone and I hope it's permanent.  He was so disgusting and I don't understand how Bonnie could be with him. 

[luna1122]

I find William Fichtner to be miles more appealing than Jag (just a personal taste thing), so I wasn't cheering for her to dump Adam. But yeah, they're no longer a good match. I don't think Adam is a jerk, tho. I haven't seen actual disdain for the AA group. I do think he's possibly a functioning alcoholic himself tho, or at least has a problem, and they are NOT good for each other at this stage of things.

I hate to see Fichtner go, tho, if he really is gone.

[Blakeston]

On 2/10/2017 at 5:05 PM, MissLucas said:

In defense of Adam: I can't remember him being dismissive about the AA group, maybe I missed it. I thought he was really concerned for all of them when he realized what Bonnie had done in last week's episode.

He was dismissive of the way some of the women went on and on (like the woman who was ranting about how her car heater blows cold air when she first starts her car - or maybe it was that the air conditioner blows hot air into the car, whichever.)

But I don't think he was completely dismissive of AA. At least, not once he realized that it was extremely important to Bonnie.

Adam should have been more sensitive with how he handled his use of substances around Bonnie. But so far as we saw, Bonnie never communicated to him that it was an issue for her sobriety, so there's blame to go around. Especially considering how badly Bonnie treated him whenever she went on one of her crazy spells.

I have a hard time believing he's really gone, because there's a whole lot they never directly addressed about his drinking/pot smoking and its effect on her.

[Ina123]

I hate to admit it but I would love to see Adam go. I just cannot get into the actor. He played the part of a father to a well-loved character in the soap "As the World Turns" back in  the late 80s. Later it was found that the he had raped the girl's mother and the daughter was a result of that incident. That's what I remember every time he is on screen so I just don't care for him in anything. So shallow...I know. Just a part he played. Strange, what the mind can't let go of.

[abstractstuff]

I see him as adorable Ryan Sparks from Grace Under Fire. I haven't liked him in this from the start. I just wish they would just figure it out. I'm not at all invested in them, so the whole will they or won't they just annoys me. Especially when it takes up a large part of the episode. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Ina123, Yes, I recall the Adam actor from ATWT too! Loved that show.  Lilly's bio dad.  Anyway, his character really made an impression, because I still think of him in that role!  Still, I like the character of Adam  more than Bonnie.  I love the show and I like Christy a lot, but, Bonnie is not a very likable person to me and I would think that she would have a lot of conflict regardless of who she is with.  I find the writing quite clever and funny.  It's the only comedy that I currently watch on tv. 

I think that most of what the writers have set up with Bonnie's character is for comic relief.  I mean, she, Christy and their AA friends make for an amusing group. I can't see much interest if she was a regular kind of sensible, calm, rational, doting mother.  She does seem to treat her men better than other people. Except she can be pretty harsh with them too.  She's deeply flawed and I can accept that, but, I can see why a lot of men would not.  She actually seems to be a dishonest person.  When that's at your core, what's left? (I'm thinking back about things like the handicapped parking space incident, dealings with tenants in the complex, and all the stuff she admits too AFTER becoming sober.

[iMonrey]

Can we just be done with Adam and Bonnie now and move onto other things? It feels like the show has revolved around them for the past month at least. There are other characters, show. I wonder if Anna Faris resents the fact that this show has turned into The Bonnie Show.

[hnygrl]

@iMonrey, not yet. I think they still have maybe 2 more episodes, possibly 3 before they give up on those two. Now we are going to be forced to sit through the "they bang like horny bunny rabbits because they are incapable of communicating any other way" Stage of the final break up. You know, where every time anything the least bit real or heavy comes up, they have monkey sex?

Yeah. And every time he wants to drink now, instead of telling her that, he's gonna disappear and we are going to be forced to sit through Bonnie the psycho stalker chick making sure that's all he wanted to do (you know, like last night's shit show? He wanted to watch the game and have a few beers but couldn't be bothered to tell his GIRLFRIEND so she had to stalk him?)

I think the next three or four episodes are gonna suck. I am so tired of these two and I just want Bonnie to come to herself and admit they're wrong for each other already.

Just looked at a list of upcoming episodes.

Adam ain't goin' nowhere anytime soon. Dammit. I hope it's at least FUNNY...and not in a slap-sticky way.

[Canada]

Why why why?  Why would the show make the break up all Bonnie's fault?  Why is Christy pushing Adam to 'take back' Bonnie???  When did Adam being a dick become Bonnie's fault?  I hated this week's episode and the direction the show took.  They made Bonnie look so pathetic.  Thank god she walked away from him at the end.  That's the only thing that saved the episode for me.

[theatremouse]

I don't think they were implying Adam being a dick was Bonnie's fault. I think they were saying that Bonnie kissing another dude was the line she crossed with Adam that he deemed unacceptable. He broke up with her over that. His earlier boorish behaviour wasn't her fault, but she also didn't dump him over it. That's the only reason why it was framed as him taking her back. Then at the end she broke it off again so maybe they're both getting round to not being right, but also not quite wanting to let go.

[msani19]

14 minutes ago, Canada said:

Thank god she walked away from him at the end.  That's the only thing that saved the episode for me.

 

I felt the same exact way too UNTIL I saw the preview for next week. Come on show! I'm not interested in watching Bonnie/Adam for a few more episodes. His arc on the show started out with such promise, and I was ok with him drinking around her b/c I thought it would be an opportunity for them to add that dimension to the show. I'm curious how addicts really do manage if they have close friends/family drinking around them. They decided to take it down a weird Adam is a jerk route instead. If it's more than 1-2 more episodes of them, I'll pass until they move on to other stories.

[ExplainItAgain]

Well, the Bonnie and Adam show continues...

I wonder if his ex-wife is going to be around more since they cast Wendie Malick or if she's a one-off.

[Sarahsmile416]

50 minutes ago, ExplainItAgain said:

Well, the Bonnie and Adam show continues...

I wonder if his ex-wife is going to be around more since they cast Wendie Malick or if she's a one-off.

I hope not...Wendie Malick was one of the only parts of this episode I liked ?

[Michel]

Wendie Malick!  I thought I recognized her!  Wow!  She really has landed on her feet since Hot in Cleveland ended!

I don't get why this episode isn't getting its rave reviews so far.  We at least got more of a look into Adam and why he lost it on Bonnie over kissing that guy.  So his ex-wife, Danielle, cheated on him.  And she wants him back.  And amazing to say, she actually likes Bonnie despite her breaking into her house!

Christy keeps talking about different guys she likes.  What, she didn't stay with Nick (the guy played by Anna's real-life husband)?  I thought that end-of-episode fuck was a sign that she was going to stay with him regardless of his insanity and creepiness.

Samson was cute.  But incredibly old.

Loved Beverly, the neighbor lady, complaining about Bonnie, then coming over to enjoy her and Adam fighting, and then actually yelling in response to Adam through the ceiling.

[Ina123]

Funniest line of the episode was the wise crack about Marjorie's hair style being so Ben Franklin.

[wendyg]

Wendie Malick has done one-off guest shots in Chuck Lorre shows before. She appeared on CYBILL as a one-episode date for one of Cybill's ex-husbands (and was very funny).

[msani19]

Wendie Malick looks so great! She's almost 70! It as a nice surprise to see her on the show and I really liked her appearance, brief as it was. 

11 hours ago, Michel said:

Loved Beverly, the neighbor lady, complaining about Bonnie, then coming over to enjoy her and Adam fighting, and then actually yelling in response to Adam through the ceiling.

 

That was really funny! She had snacks! 

[hnygrl]

I figure if Samson the beautiful, make-me-miss-my-babies shepherd is 14? That's what...98 in human years? Poor thing. Why ya'll trying to walk a dog that old? He must be in pain 24/7. Let the old guy rest.

I still don't like this storyline. It's taking a strong, independent, knows what she wants and how to get it woman into yet another slave to her hormones. She's in love. She knows this dude is toxic. She knows they're no good together. She knows, other than being in love and orgasms, they have zero, absolutely ZERO, in common.

Is this a Chuck Lorre show? It's not is it? Cause just lately they're acting like they are.

I thought it was sad and funny, or funny and sad, that she'd break into the woman's house, look around, make a snack, then wait for her outside and not one soul thought that was creepy. Or possibly illegal. 

Show works best when it's just the core group with no outsiders.

Liked it mostly, but the Bonnie/Adam storylines are harshing my buzz.

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, hnygrl said:

 

Is this a Chuck Lorre show? It's not is it? Cause just lately they're acting like they are.

Not sure if you are joking, but it IS a Chuck Lorre show.

[iMonrey]

Ugh - enough with Bonnie and Adam already! Jeepers! How many more episodes are going to revolve around Bonnie and Adam? How much mileage do they think they can get out of this relationship? What do the actors think, week after week, showing up for table reads, getting their scripts and going "Jeez, another Bonnie and Adam episode." Everyone who isn't Allison Janney or William Fichtner must be bored out of their minds and as sick of this as I am. 

Not for nothing, but Christie is supposed to be the lead character on this show, not Bonnie. At least, that's what I'm assuming based on the opening title sequence that shows pictures of Christie, not Bonnie. Yet lately it feels like Bonnie is the lead and Christie is fast becoming a smaller and smaller supporting character like Marjorie, Wendy and Jill. 

Last week's episode ended with what seemed like Bonnie and Adam breaking up and this episode hit a total reset. I don't get it. 

[Chaos Theory]

Christy was supposed to be the lead until Alison Janey won a couple of awards for her roll as Bonnie.  Since then it's kind of flipped.  Not sure if that is a good thing.  I like Bonnie but I liked the show better when Anna Farris was the lead and the show was about Christy trying to get sober.  

[ExplainItAgain]

I agree Christy has been sidelined a bit lately. We never see her at work or school and the kids are nonexistent now. Violet I get because she's an adult now but it's like Baxter (ETA: meant Roscoe) doesn't even exist. I also wish she'd get a new hairstyle.

I hope we're not heading for a love triangle or a season finale "who will Adam pick?" story.

Edited February 25, 2017 by ExplainItAgain

[hnygrl]

56 minutes ago, GussieK said:

2 hours ago, hnygrl said:

Is this a Chuck Lorre show? It's not is it? Cause just lately they're acting like they are.

Not sure if you are joking, but it IS a Chuck Lorre show.

Nope. Wasn't Joking. Freaking figures.

Well hell. No wonder. I'm beginning to think Mr. Lorre has a real Hate-On for strong, independent women.

He always, without FAIL, makes them into monsters or too pathetic to even JOKE about creatures in the end. *cough PENNY*

[EtheltoTillie]

I'm of two minds on the Chuck Lorre influence.  On the one hand, he sometimes makes women characters into ball busters, e.g., Bernadette.  On the other hand, he showcases strong women favorably.  I think the other women in Mom are great role models, e.g., Christy, going back to school, and Marjorie, the den mother.  Amy Farrah Fowler on BBT is another good role model.

He also showcases substance abuse issues:  Grace Under Fire, Two and a Half Men, and Mom. 

Edited February 24, 2017 by GussieK

[wendyg]

I would like Beth Hall (Wendy) to get a storyline. The actress is so great - compare her here to her work as Roger Sterling's secretary, Caroline, on MAD MEN - and yet so far is only given snippets to suggest her character has a lot more facets than we see.

[UsernameFatigue]

I love Wendy Malick so wouldn't mind if she shows up for a few more epis. Though I don't buy that she is trying to get Adam back, unless she is also an alcoholic drug user. I actually like the shows when they have some characters other than the core group. I love Baxter's wife (or did they ever get married?) much more than Baxter. I also don't buy that Christy and the AA friends are so supportive of Bonnie dating someone with the lifestyle she is trying to avoid. 

Love Bonnie's line calling the dog Son of Sam. I thought Adam said the dog's name was Samsung and thought "What an odd name for a dog". Glad that the name was Samson - lol.  I wondered if the dog really is old and had trouble walking or if the dog was taught to walk that way? I would love to see him again on the show but lying down relaxing is just fine. 

[juliet73]

Can we get rid of Adam and keep Wendie Malick? 

[Michel]

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I love Baxter's wife (or did they ever get married?) much more than Baxter. 

No, Candice is still just engaged to Baxter.

[Sarahsmile416]

21 hours ago, hnygrl said:

I figure if Samson the beautiful, make-me-miss-my-babies shepherd is 14? That's what...98 in human years? Poor thing. Why ya'll trying to walk a dog that old? He must be in pain 24/7. Let the old guy rest.

I still don't like this storyline. It's taking a strong, independent, knows what she wants and how to get it woman into yet another slave to her hormones. She's in love. She knows this dude is toxic. She knows they're no good together. She knows, other than being in love and orgasms, they have zero, absolutely ZERO, in common.

Is this a Chuck Lorre show? It's not is it? Cause just lately they're acting like they are.

I thought it was sad and funny, or funny and sad, that she'd break into the woman's house, look around, make a snack, then wait for her outside and not one soul thought that was creepy. Or possibly illegal. 

Show works best when it's just the core group with no outsiders.

Liked it mostly, but the Bonnie/Adam storylines are harshing my buzz.

This. I was glad to see Christie finally say that this wasn't good for her and that she was scared that her mother would start to drink again. I just wish Marjorie would voice the same objections. I don't know if she is Bonnie's sponsor- but I just can't see any sponsor green-lighting this horrible relationship for her...

[DXD526]

This show has changed so much, it's hardly recognizable. It started out as being about Christie struggling to keep her life together, working hard at a low-paying job, a single mom raising two kids, trying to get through another day of sobriety. Bonnie was a tertiary character. Now Bonnie's basically the main character and the kids are virtually never seen or mentioned, nor is Christie's job. Does she still work at the restaurant? I can't remember the last time we even saw the place. 

I still enjoy it, but it's really a different show.

[illdoc]

I believe she still works at the restaurant, since she has been seen in her server outfit (black pants, vest and tie(?), white shirt) a couple of times. We just haven't seen the actual restaurant. I thought she was also working part-time with that lawyer that Bonnie dated a few times too.

[Sarahsmile416]

51 minutes ago, DXD526 said:

This show has changed so much, it's hardly recognizable. It started out as being about Christie struggling to keep her life together, working hard at a low-paying job, a single mom raising two kids, trying to get through another day of sobriety. Bonnie was a tertiary character. Now Bonnie's basically the main character and the kids are virtually never seen or mentioned, nor is Christie's job. Does she still work at the restaurant? I can't remember the last time we even saw the place. 

I still enjoy it, but it's really a different show.

Even last year they made an attempt to focus on the other characters...Christie getting into law school, Violet getting together with Gregory and then breaking up with him...there was a good mix of characters.

As you mention, it's still a good show but this focus on Bonnie and her dysfunctional relationship is just overwhelming it so that is all we see...and while I love Bonnie and Allison Janney, there is only so much of the Bonnie/Adam show I can take...

[Blakeston]

I actually don't have a problem with Bonnie getting more focus than Christy. Anna Faris is great and all, but I really don't care about her kids (especially Violet), or the restaurant, or college or law school or whatever the hell educational institution she's in right now.

I just wish the Bonnie stuff wasn't all revolving around a relationship that's obviously doomed. William Fichtner is clearly very talented, but IMO the character of Adam is nowhere near as funny as the writers think he is.

[iMonrey]

Nor is there much more to be mined from the relationship until the writers address the elephant in the room: namely, that Adam still drinks and smokes pot, and that Bonnie is an alcoholic/addict. Little has been mentioned about it, and the drama has mostly been assigned to the fact that Bonnie is emotionally too high maintenance. Even though Christy finally brought up the fact that she's worried Bonnie might start drinking again, her fear was based on the fact that Bonnie is a basket case emotionally, rather than because of the temptation with Adam always drinking or getting high.

[EtheltoTillie]

2 hours ago, stewedsquash said:

Also, in the associate the actor category: I can't see Jill without thinking: Wow, Joy dumped Crab Man and got a man with money. She will always be Joy to me. That isn't really a diss though because I think Jaime is a talented comedy actress. I just wish she could be like Julia Louise-Dreyfus, and make me forget the last character. I never thought of Elaine the whole time she played Christine, ever. 

Aw, Crab Man. I loved him!  Still, I think Jaime plays this character differently, and it's written differently.

[EtheltoTillie]

I think I'm the only person here who hasn't seen ATWT or that actor before. 

[MissLucas]

Well, I've never seen ATWT but I know William Fichtner mainly from Prison Break and Crossing Lines. But he's been in tons of things (West Wing for example) - he's one of my favorite actors and I always root for him to finally get the recognition he deserves by scoring a leading part in a hit-show. Until then I'm fine with what I get even if I can see the problems with the Adam story-line.