All Episodes Talk: Picture It. PTer. Today.

[qtpye]

On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 10:05 AM, sasha206 said:

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but as much as I love Blanche and Rue's portrayal of her,  I don't see her as being attractive. But I guess if she is known as being easy, she'd be able to get dates.  Dorothy ends up being the most attractive one of the bunch at the end of the show.

 

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 7:39 PM, aquarian1 said:

I agree. I never understood how/why they painted Dorothy as ugly, or Blanche as fat.  Those "jokes" just fell flat for me.

I hate to say this, but at that time if you had a group of women they always painted "the smart one" as unattractive (until she had her makeover, which usually included extraordinary things like taking off glasses).  I have no clue why this was...most men I know find intelligence to be sexy and do not want to date an idiot.

Blanche was far from fat, so those jokes never made sense.  I think Blanche had a way about her that would make men find her sexy, even if she was not the most conventionally attractive woman in the room.

[Aja]

I always thought Blanche's over-inflated sense of her own beauty was part of the joke (her "perky bosoms" and "petite ears", for example.) Like Bastet, I much prefer seeing this to the usual opposite--attractive people who would rather DIE than admit it. :D

[ShadowSixx]

I always thought Rose should have gotten married in the end since she was the only one to be in the longest relationship with Miles.

[Bastet]

It would have made a hell of a lot more sense than Dorothy leaving the household to marry a man she'd known for about five minutes - and to whom she'd become engaged as a prank.  I know the ending came about because Bea Arthur was leaving, and there really isn't another plausible reason other than killing Dorothy off, but I wonder how much notice they had of her intention to move on; unless it was an eleventh-hour announcement, they should have set up a more plausible relationship.  It has always bugged me, and I hardly ever watch those final two episodes in syndication.  (Besides, who wants to see that awful dress again?)

[AndySmith]

They also couldn't marry off any of the other girls since they probably needed them to be single for storyline purposes for The Golden Palace.

[Lady Iris]

16 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

I always thought Rose should have gotten married in the end since she was the only one to be in the longest relationship with Miles.

Come to think of it, what happened to Miles? I remember he was able to get out of the witness protection program but don't recall anything after that?

[ShadowSixx]

Rose and Miles stayed together after he got out of Witness Protection and contemplated marriage but decided against it. It was odd how Miles wasn't in the episode when Rose needed triple bypass. You think one of the girls would have called him after notifying Kirsten. Assumed that they stayed together until they sold the house to be on Golden Palace. On Golden Palace Miles reveals to Rose that he loves another woman and he marries the other woman.

[slf]

I recently saw one of my favorite Blanche moments- when she's stayed up all night writing and is delirious the next day:

Blanche: My brain's gone. My body is limp with exhaustion. I suppose all the greats knew this feeling. [Dorothy rolls her eyes.] And the thing is, after all this, I've decided not to sell my book. It's too good to sell. They can publish it after I'm dead, like Vincent van Gogh.

Dorothy: Van Gogh was a painter, Blanche.

Blanche: Whatever. It's all the same thing. We're all artists, we're all misunderstood. He cut off his hair, maybe I'll cut off mine. [yanks her hair]

Dorothy: He cut off his ear.

Blanche: [purses her face] I have too many earrings...

[legaleagle53]

9 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

Rose and Miles stayed together after he got out of Witness Protection and contemplated marriage but decided against it. It was odd how Miles wasn't in the episode when Rose needed triple bypass. You think one of the girls would have called him after notifying Kirsten. Assumed that they stayed together until they sold the house to be on Golden Palace. On Golden Palace Miles reveals to Rose that he loves another woman and he marries the other woman.

Not only that, but he even married the other woman in front of Rose.  The jerk had the nerve to book his wedding and reception at the girls' hotel, and poor Rose was forced to watch the wedding from the other room in order to get closure after the revelation about Miles cheating on her.

The character assassinations that routinely took place on Golden Palace are the main reason that so many viewers (including yours truly) hated that show and have been pretending for the past 20 years or so that it never existed.

[LilWharveyGal]

I wonder if Betty and/or Harold Gould ever voiced concern or surprise about this plot to the writers, or if they were content to just cash their checks and go about their business.

[camom]

Quote

I recently saw one of my favorite Blanche moments- when she's stayed up all night writing and is delirious the next day:

Rue was at the top of her game in that episode, IMO.  So, so funny.  "Sunshine in a bag."

[schnauzergirl]

1 hour ago, LilWharveyGal said:

I wonder if Betty and/or Harold Gould ever voiced concern or surprise about this plot to the writers, or if they were content to just cash their checks and go about their business.

I love the Girls and enjoyed Rose/Miles together, but as the series went on I had the sense the writers didn't care about inconsistencies or coherent plot lines.  Sure it's "only" a TV show, but there's no excuse for what I see as carelessness on the part of the production and writing staffs.  

[AndySmith]

Quote

as the series went on I had the sense the writers didn't care about inconsistencies or coherent plot lines

They were pretty inconsistent with continuity from the beginning...

[schnauzergirl]

1 hour ago, AndySmith said:

They were pretty inconsistent with continuity from the beginning...

I agree, but it snowballed and by the end I don't think anybody cared and, worse yet, maybe assumed viewers didn't notice.  

[AndySmith]

My point is I don't think they cared from the start lol

The amount of inconsistencies became worse because as it went on, we got more contradictory information...but I honestly believe that continuity was just something they didn't care about. At all.

[LilWharveyGal]

That's what made me wonder if the cast ever brought it up to the showrunners.  I mean, I wouldn't expect Rue to remember to question whether Blanche's mother's name was Elizabeth or Samantha, for example.  But with something as overt as Miles's Golden Palace plotline, I'd love to know if anything was ever said, even if it was as innocuous as Betty and Harold muttering, "Well, this is...different," at a table read.

[BitterApple]

It is rather interesting considering all the actresses seemed like pretty sharp ladies. It never occurred to Bea Arthur to say, "hey shouldn't my kids be in their 40s instead of their 20s if I got pregnant in high school?". Or Rose being a high school dropout in one episode while a member of a college sorority in another? 

[Aja]

We just need to track down some of the writers and send them a questionnaire. 

[moonb]

I figured Dorothy's wedding dress in the finale was a deliberate wink to the audience regarding her bad wardrobe. Although, it was 1992, so maybe not.

I was watching the episode where Rose gets groped by her dentist recently and had forgotten its contemporary take on sex and consent (you weren't given an option...you were given nitrous oxide!). Played for laughs, but still.  Sometimes the show wasn't exactly consistent about that (surprise). 

Imo Blanche gets the best emotional moments on the show - Big Daddy's death, Mrs George Devereaux, her phone calls to her distant daughter Janet. I guess I like the understated stuff, or I'm a sucker for complicated parent-child relationships. You could see both where Blanche truly wanted a connection with her kids, but would also have been a little nightmarish as a mother (her granddaughter in the pageant comes to mind). 

[BloggerAloud]

The phone call with her daughter is one of my favorite "emotional" moments on the show because the writing, acting, music choice and the slow zoom in by the camera is just all perfect together.

[Bastet]

The one where Blanche thinks she's pregnant (but is actually going through menopause) is on right now, and even for a sitcom I just can't deal with this storyline.  Blanche, who sees herself as younger than she is, skipping her period and going to pregnancy rather than menopause I buy.  And maybe even Rose, as something of an idiot, would just stick with the pregnancy narrative once Blanche puts it out there.  But neither Sophia nor, especially, Dorothy, says, "Um, you know there's another possibility here"?  Someone Blanche's age misses two periods, and menopause, not pregnancy, is my first thought, yet here no one seems to even consider it.

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

The one where Blanche thinks she's pregnant (but is actually going through menopause) is on right now, and even for a sitcom I just can't deal with this storyline.  Blanche, who sees herself as younger than she is, skipping her period and going to pregnancy rather than menopause I buy.  And maybe even Rose, as something of an idiot, would just stick with the pregnancy narrative once Blanche puts it out there.  But neither Sophia nor, especially, Dorothy, says, "Um, you know there's another possibility here"?  Someone Blanche's age misses two periods, and menopause, not pregnancy, is my first thought, yet here no one seems to even consider it.

Because they both know that Blanche will cut any bitch who dares to accuse her of being over 45.

[Bastet]

6 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Because they both know that Blanche will cut any bitch who dares to accuse her of being over 45.

They don't exactly exhibit a pattern of being afraid to introduce reality into Blanche's fantasies.

[WendyCR72]

Dorothy and Sophia not thinking menopause was admittedly out of character for them, but I can sort of see the other side, too. Now, granted, she may more than likely have had "help" to do so, but look at Janet Jackson, who just had a baby at 50. Is it common? No, but it does happen.

And since the show was always so fluid (to put it kindly) about the ages of the girls, I can see where a pregnancy scare late in life would be deemed an option, albeit a remote one!

[Aja]

The whole episode is worth it for Sophia saying "Maybe she could name it after the father, RickJoeBobDonDave."

[babyhouseman]

18 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Dorothy and Sophia not thinking menopause was admittedly out of character for them, but I can sort of see the other side, too. Now, granted, she may more than likely have had "help" to do so, but look at Janet Jackson, who just had a baby at 50. Is it common? No, but it does happen.

And since the show was always so fluid (to put it kindly) about the ages of the girls, I can see where a pregnancy scare late in life would be deemed an option, albeit a remote one!

Adrienne Barbeau, an actress, had twins at 51. It was 1997. I just love this episode because of the great lines. 

[WendyCR72]

3 minutes ago, babyhouseman said:

Adrienne Barbeau, an actress, had twins at 51. It was 1997. I just love this episode because of the great lines. 

And, ironically, Adrienne Barbeau played Bea Arthur's character's daughter, Carol, on Ms. Arthur's prior show Maude in the '70s! (I was actually born back then, but I know my TV culture!)

[Maherjunkie]

Did she work to get them, or were they "natural"?

[Lady Iris]

On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 3:24 PM, ShadowSixx said:

Rose and Miles stayed together after he got out of Witness Protection and contemplated marriage but decided against it. It was odd how Miles wasn't in the episode when Rose needed triple bypass. You think one of the girls would have called him after notifying Kirsten. Assumed that they stayed together until they sold the house to be on Golden Palace. On Golden Palace Miles reveals to Rose that he loves another woman and he marries the other woman.

 

On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 0:52 AM, legaleagle53 said:

Not only that, but he even married the other woman in front of Rose.  The jerk had the nerve to book his wedding and reception at the girls' hotel, and poor Rose was forced to watch the wedding from the other room in order to get closure after the revelation about Miles cheating on her.

The character assassinations that routinely took place on Golden Palace are the main reason that so many viewers (including yours truly) hated that show and have been pretending for the past 20 years or so that it never existed.

Thank you both, I vaguely recall some eps of Golden Palace but didn't remember there was a Miles follow up story involved.

Which was worse? After-Mash or Golden Palace?

[ShadowSixx]

I always wondered why Rose & Dorothy thought that Blanche would have an affair with Gil Kessler. Gil Kessler was ugly, and didn't even look like a man Blanche would date. You haven't seen Blanche have an affair with a married man on the show. Dorothy & Rose did, Dorothy with Glenn even though she didn't know at first but then after she knew she continued on with the affair and Rose with Al Beatty even though she didn't know he was married so Rose gets a buy on that.

The first actor to play Glenn wasn't eyecandy at all when Dorothy said a gorgeous gym teacher and then I saw Glenn, I was like...okay then. Also didn't get why they all fawned over Lazlow, he wasn't cute either nor was the guy Blanche flew in the plane with and she didn't want to be a mother to young children.

I'll admit that the girls did have some nice looking gentlemen, of course Lucas and there was Jake, Miles, Glenn (Jerry Orbach), Ken the clown, Patrick Vaughn, and John Neretti. If I was Dorothy I would be pissed too that she turned John away during my prom. Dorothy had the most attractive men while Blanche had the cutest in Jake.

[AndySmith]

I think mileage varies when it comes to looks. For example, I love Jerry Orbach as an actor, especially when he was on Law & Order, but do I find him to be a nice looking man? Eh, not so much.

But yeah, Gil Kessler was definitely not someone I would see Blanche going for.

[BitterApple]

I never understood why Sophia didn't tell Dorothy about John showing up for prom? I can't imagine letting my teenage daughter think she got stood up by a boy she had a crush on. I know Sophia was always a fan favorite, but she was kind of a shitty parent in many aspects. 

[AndySmith]

Didn't John admit later on in the episode that Sophia made the right call about him at the time?

[FormerMod-a1]

I took that to mean she made the right call about sending him away, he wasn't showing respect with his crummy attire.  Not that she made the right call not to tell Dorothy.

[ShadowSixx]

23 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I never understood why Sophia didn't tell Dorothy about John showing up for prom? I can't imagine letting my teenage daughter think she got stood up by a boy she had a crush on. I know Sophia was always a fan favorite, but she was kind of a shitty parent in many aspects. 

I agree, Sophia wasn't always the best parent towards Dorothy, especially that Monkey Show episode. Sophia was just the worst. It seems when Gloria shows up is when Sophia is at her worst. When Gloria first visited she tells Dorothy not to expect a miracle for her makeover. What kind of mother says that to her child?

[BitterApple]

9 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

I took that to mean she made the right call about sending him away, he wasn't showing respect with his crummy attire.  Not that she made the right call not to tell Dorothy.

Thanks, I probably should've clarified my post a little better.

Yes, I didn't have an issue with Sophia sending John away, I had an issue with her never telling Dorothy he showed up in the first place. It would've been better for Dorothy to temporarily hate her Mom rather than suffer a huge blow to her self-esteem that led her to make a piss poor choice in hooking up with Stan.

[LilWharveyGal]

I don't know.  I'm not a parent but I was once a teenage girl, and I think Sophia telling Dorothy would have blown up into a different set of problems.  I don't think there were any great options for Sophia in this scenario.  (And I'm not a fan of her as a parent, either.)

Now that I think of it, we've seen their Brooklyn apartment and it wasn't spacious.  How did Dorothy not hear John arrive, particularly if a verbal altercation ensued?  Was she down in the cellar practicing her slow dancing with a rake?

[Bastet]

I think if Sophia had told her she sent him away, Dorothy would have flipped her lid, and John would have been all the more attractive to her.  But I think better to try to explain why she sent him away, giving a lesson on demanding respect, than to let your daughter think she was stood up for prom.  Self esteem is so fragile at that age.

[qtpye]

I think Dorothy was the dutiful kid that Sophia could depend on, but not favored.  Sophia like Gloria and Phil, until Phil started dressing up like a woman.  It was funny the way Sophia ragged Dorothy on her looks and life choices, but in real life it would be cruel, particularly since Dorothy was the child taking care of her in her old age.

[ShadowSixx]

In The Custody Battle, Gloria wasn't great in that episode either when her and Dorothy are going to bed, Gloria just rubs it in Dorothy's face that her life is better saying how her marriage worked out while Dorothy got divorced, her kids are practicing professionals while Dorothy's children aren't, and how she lives in a big house and have money while Dorothy doesn't. If I was Dorothy I would have had Gloria sleep on the floor.

[moonb]

I thought Gloria 1.0 and Dorothy had a believable older/younger sister dynamic, although I wish Gloria 2.0 didn't exist. It's also why I like Kate and Michael's episodes, even though I don't like them as characters - they seem like kids Dorothy and Stan would have raised.  Gloria bragged about her money and her kids' money because she felt that was the one thing she had going for her (and apparently they didn't grow up with a lot of extra), while Dorothy got the intelligence, job she liked, and loving friends. Sort of like there being a "smart" sister and a "pretty" sister. My sister and I behave like this and we're middle-aged too.  I can imagine Sophia paying more attention to Gloria because Gloria was needier or something, and that looking like favoritism. 

Anyway, Gloria's marriage was over later on, too. Were we supposed to think of Dorothy and Stan's marriage as mostly happy? mostly not because of the shotgun wedding and yutz jokes? I love Stan as a character, but their marriage would the kind of conflicted one that makes for good sitcom jokes, rather than Blanche and Rose's loving marriages. Guess that's why Charlie and George don't appear in flashbacks except the one. 

[ShadowSixx]

It was odd how neither Dorothy or Michael called Stan when Michael was getting engaged/married to Lorraine. Also didn't like how we didn't get to see Michael & Lorraine's child after.

[ShadowSixx]

That guy Rose dated who was impotent was a jerk. He couldn't get it up and then the minute he could he tells Rose he's going back to his wife. He just used her and if I was Rose I wouldn't have been so understanding. Would have Lorena Bobbitt his ass and see if he'll want to work it out with his wife then.

[HoboClayton]

That would have been an interesting way to go with it.... EEK! 

[Miss Chevious]

On 3/31/2017 at 0:39 PM, ShadowSixx said:

It was odd how neither Dorothy or Michael called Stan when Michael was getting engaged/married to Lorraine. Also didn't like how we didn't get to see Michael & Lorraine's child after.

We don't even know for sure if Michael and Lorraine's child was even born. She says she's pregnant and we see them going into the chapel to get married but that's it. In a later episode Michael mentions he and Lorraine have split but there's no mention of a child at all. 

[BookThief]

15 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

That guy Rose dated who was impotent was a jerk. He couldn't get it up and then the minute he could he tells Rose he's going back to his wife. He just used her and if I was Rose I wouldn't have been so understanding. Would have Lorena Bobbitt his ass and see if he'll want to work it out with his wife then.

But Rose does get in a good dig at his expense when Blanche says she gave him back his manhood and Rose responds, "If he can find it, he can have it!" For Rose that's pretty mean! I don't think he used her though. I don't think he was like "she'll get me to have sex again!" I take it that he realized that part of him was still working after all and that having this back on the table meant he could get back together with his ex. It wasn't a particularly kind thing, but I don't think he was trying to be a dick (errrr.....).

[ShadowSixx]

There's no episode but I always wondered why they recasted so many characters. If I'm remembering correctly only characters not to be recasted was Clayton, Virginia, & Michael. They recasted Big Daddy, Rebecca, Gloria, Kirsten, Glenn and reused Harold Gould playing Arnie & Miles. Were the original actors that unavailable? Maybe I should check their IMDB page lol.

Was the teacher that wanted to sleep with Blanche to pass a test the same guy who played Gary Tucker who cheated on Blanche with Holly?

[AndySmith]

Quote

That guy Rose dated who was impotent was a jerk

But the scene at the restaurant was hilarious.

[Snow Apple]

4 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

There's no episode but I always wondered why they recasted so many characters. If I'm remembering correctly only characters not to be recasted was Clayton, Virginia, & Michael. They recasted Big Daddy, Rebecca, Gloria, Kirsten, Glenn and reused Harold Gould playing Arnie & Miles. Were the original actors that unavailable? Maybe I should check their IMDB page lol.

Was the teacher that wanted to sleep with Blanche to pass a test the same guy who played Gary Tucker who cheated on Blanche with Holly?

Speaking of recasts, I remember hating the second Kate (Dorothy's daughter). I also remember the actress in the sitcom Too Close For Comfort and hated her style of acting there too.

[qtpye]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 11:11 PM, Bastet said:

It would have made a hell of a lot more sense than Dorothy leaving the household to marry a man she'd known for about five minutes - and to whom she'd become engaged as a prank.  I know the ending came about because Bea Arthur was leaving, and there really isn't another plausible reason other than killing Dorothy off, but I wonder how much notice they had of her intention to move on; unless it was an eleventh-hour announcement, they should have set up a more plausible relationship.  It has always bugged me, and I hardly ever watch those final two episodes in syndication.  (Besides, who wants to see that awful dress again?)

They could had a story, that Dorothy just wanted to closer to kids/grandkids and that would be a perfectly legitimate reason for her to move out.  I think they wanted to give the character a romantic send off with a handsome silver fox to make for all those "Dorothy is lonely and unattractive jokes".  That wedding dress is the stuff of nightmares, though.