Artistic Gymnastics: Stick the Landing!

[EyewatchTV211]

I was only taught to put my hand over my heart for the pledge in the public schools, not for the anthem. I'm with others who never knew it was a legit thing - I just assumed some people were doing it wrong and confusing it with the pledge. I work in public schools as well and haven't seen it taught to children to have their hands over their hearts for the anthem. 

[Minneapple]

I was taught to put my hand over the heart during the pledge and the national anthem. But somewhere along the line I learned that it's also okay to not put your hand over your heart. Last I checked we do have a little thing called the First Amendment in the US, guaranteeing freedom of speech. The women's gymnasts have admirably represented the USA in the arena and out of it. Questioning their "patriotism" is stupid. 

Meanwhile the USA men's gymnastics program needs a serious overhaul. Marta should seriously kick their asses into being competitive.

[choclatechip45]

It's going to be hard to do an overhaul if all the same guys are coming back. No wonder Martha forces people to retire. 

[Rinaldo]

22 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I was never taught to put my hand over my heart for the anthem in the evil public school system, and I was raised during the frikkin Cold War.

Nor was I, and I started school in 1952 -- I remember the day we were told that we would now insert "under God" into the Pledge.

5 minutes ago, VMepicgrl said:

I was only taught to put my hand over my heart for the pledge in the public schools, not for the anthem. I'm with others who never knew it was a legit thing - I just assumed some people were doing it wrong and confusing it with the pledge.

Exactly! I too had figured they (in all recent Olympics) had this vague wish to do the proper thing during the anthem, or observed what others were doing, and did it wrong. Hand on heart for pledge, stand at attention for the anthem, that's what I was taught, as was apparently one whole generation, or maybe more. In any case, I see no reason to chastise anyone for their choice in this situation.

(Though I'm no patriotic zealot, I'm actually more bothered by the use of flags as capes and whatnot by athletes, which I find disrespectful but is apparently quite customary.)

[Daisy]

2 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

Nor was I, and I started school in 1952 -- I remember the day we were told that we would now insert "under God" into the Pledge.

Exactly! I too had figured they (in all recent Olympics) had this vague wish to do the proper thing during the anthem, or observed what others were doing, and did it wrong. Hand on heart for pledge, stand at attention for the anthem, that's what I was taught, as was apparently one whole generation, or maybe more. In any case, I see no reason to chastise anyone for their choice in this situation.

(Though I'm no patriotic zealot, I'm actually more bothered by the use of flags as capes and whatnot by athletes, which I find disrespectful but is apparently quite customary.)

That one bugs me a lot. the cape thing. I know that sometimes Canadian athletes will put it on a pole and skate around with it which is okay but the cape thing buggles me.

[MostlyC]

Marta force people to retire?  What does she do?

And why wasn't Marta on the floor during the team final?  Wasn't she there for 2008/2012?

[EyewatchTV211]

Rinaldo - it appears yours was not the only generation to learn it that way. I'm a bit younger than you. :-p

[FormerMod-a1]

4 minutes ago, MostlyC said:

Marta force people to retire?  What does she do?

And why wasn't Marta on the floor during the team final?  Wasn't she there for 2008/2012?

Is she really going to retire, or just 'retire' from the US coaching?

[choclatechip45]

19 minutes ago, MostlyC said:

Marta force people to retire?  What does she do?

And why wasn't Marta on the floor during the team final?  Wasn't she there for 2008/2012?

"Force" is probably the wrong word. However there was this whole controversy with Chelsie Memmel petition being denied for Nationals to do the all around because she didn't meet the required score for beam at classics while Nastia's petition was accepted for doing beam and bars while she only did beam at classic. Nastia 's score was the above the required scores Plus there were rumors that Chow told Shawn she wouldn't make the team which is why she dropped out of Nationals. I think Martha only cares if you win her gold in the team or all around. Which is why she was so receptive of the comebacks from the 2012 team. when she wasn't so receive with the comebacks from the 2008 team. For  Example putting Bridget, Shawn and Chelsie on the Pan am Games squad in 2011 instead of sending them to worlds. I also think that's why she brought Gabby to the Olympics because she is the only one to win her both. She also gave Nastia a million chances in 2012. This theory comes from an interview she did before the 2012 games were she said  London would be a failure if they didn't win the team and all around gold.

 

She was on the floor in '08 because it's required to have one female coach on the floor and all the girls head coaches were Males.  That's why Kyla's coach was on the floor in 2012 while the males kept switching out. I remember they kept saying this during the trials in '08 because Tim kept using this as a reason to take Jana. 

Edited August 11, 2016 by choclatechip45

[kittykat]

32 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

 

Meanwhile the USA men's gymnastics program needs a serious overhaul. Marta should seriously kick their asses into being competitive.

As far as returning gymnasts, I could see Sam doing one more even he is inconsistent.  Even though he placed 7th he performed well in AA.  Looking at the overall scores he had the 3rd highest in Floor and Parallel Bars and Top 5 in High Bar.  He seems to consistently score in the 14s for Pommels and Rings which is par for the course on any US man save for Naddour.   Realistically though I would not surprised if the 2020 team was all new blood.

I doubt we'll see Alex, Danell or Chris in Tokyo.  If anyone was the most consistent in Team Finals it was Jake Dalton.  But with the teams dropping down to four there is going to be more pressure than ever to find at least three all-around performers.  Countries won't be able to pad their teams with specialists.  But in order for US to get back into medal contention they need to find people who can score in the 15s on Pommel and Rings without compromising the other events.  Maybe have one or two focus on higher CoP.   It's harder with the men having six events to get the right three people for each apparatus without risking injury or overtiring them for later event finals.  

An ideal lineup would be two consistent all around performers you can put up in Team finals on five or all events, someone who consistently scores high on Pommel/Rings with the fourth being someone who can get a 16 in P. Bars and high 15s in high bar.  It's a fair combo of elevating our weakest and strongest areas.

Edited August 11, 2016 by kittykat

[KenyaJ]

5 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

If hand to heart during the anthem was the yardstick, most of the country would be deported to Canada!  ;-)

He's your problem now, Canada! LOL.

 

36 minutes ago, VMepicgrl said:

I was only taught to put my hand over my heart for the pledge in the public schools, not for the anthem.

Same. I was taught that men shouldn't wear hats when the anthem is played, but never that putting one's hand over their heart was mandatory. In any event, I wouldn't dare judge anyone's patriotism on that basis.

[walnutqueen]

2 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

He's your problem now, Canada! LOL.

Oh, SNAP!!!  ;-)

[Fostersmom]

We took Beiber, fair is fair. 

What's the over under on gymnastics actually getting ANY airtime tonight? Maybe they'll show 1 routine at 11:53 tonight and the rest will be overnight with Ryan Seacrest again. 

[Mrs. P.]

Will the women's AA competition tomorrow happen during the afternoon or will it be live that night?

[scarynikki12]

The NBC site says 2pm Central time.

[Daisy]

2 minutes ago, Fostersmom said:

We took Beiber, fair is fair. 

What's the over under on gymnastics actually getting ANY airtime tonight? Maybe they'll show 1 routine at 11:53 tonight and the rest will be overnight with Ryan Seacrest again. 

the last swimming event ends at 10. so we'll see then. 
 

1 minute ago, Mrs. P. said:

Will the women's AA competition tomorrow happen during the afternoon or will it be live that night?

it will be at 3:00 EST, but depending on anything nuts, it will air 8pm NBC time.

[kittykat]

So far they've aired beach volleyball, swimming is on right now and they may even show diving (US got silver).  With all that maybe a few routines, utterly ridiculous.

[maraleia]

Come on everyone. The only reason why Gabby was criticized is because she's a Black woman and people can't stand her success so they will find anything to nitpick her about including this. As others have mentioned, Phelps is never called out for his behavior.

[HartofDixie]

Nice story for the Final Five!

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/08/10/sports/olympics/gymnastics-parents.html?_r=1

[Sew Sumi]

23 minutes ago, Daisy said:

the last swimming event ends at 10. so we'll see then. 
 

it will be at 3:00 EST, but depending on anything nuts, it will air 8pm NBC time.

Nope. We have yet to see Phelps and Lochte. It's going longer than that. Women's 200 Fly is going on right now, so it's going to be 11 or not at all...

[Daisy]

It's 10:00pm... Do you know where Men's Gymnastics is? 
Not even a hint or a mention. 

2 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Nope. We have yet to see Phelps and Lochte. It's going longer than that. Women's 200 Fly is going on right now, so it's going to be 11 or not at all...

i was reading the race times on a tweet, but i just saw what time it was, and realised there were at least 3 more races to go.

[BitterApple]

11 minutes ago, maraleia said:

Come on everyone. The only reason why Gabby was criticized is because she's a Black woman and people can't stand her success so they will find anything to nitpick her about including this. As others have mentioned, Phelps is never called out for his behavior.

I don't know, I think the race card is overplayed any time people dare to criticize a black athlete. I don't think Gabby did anything disrespectful or wrong, nor do I think it warranted this kind of attention, but in context, it looked odd for Gabby to be standing with her arms at her sides while the rest of her teammates adopted the same posture. 

[Aliconehead]

14 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I don't know, I think the race card is overplayed any time people dare to criticize a black athlete. I don't think Gabby did anything disrespectful or wrong, nor do I think it warranted this kind of attention, but in context, it looked odd for Gabby to be standing with her arms at her sides while the rest of her teammates adopted the same posture. 

I disagree mainly because on the same night you have St Phelps laughing and carrying on during the anthem and NO ONE is calling him out on it and having him apologize. She was much more respectful of the anthem and the moment. White male athlete v black female athlete. 

 

Edited to to add he was laughing because it buds changed the words which has ALWAYS bothered me when sports fans do it for there team: Chiefs, O's and others

Edited August 11, 2016 by Aliconehead

[scarynikki12]

I'm watching the NBC stream and Horton really is delightful during Kohei's high bar.  "This is not fun at all!!!" and his sweating confession are so much fun. 

[SophiaD]

I'm surprised that criticizing Gabby's reaction during the anthem.  She was standing there and listening respectfully.  I, too, was always taught to put my hand on my heart during the Pledge, but not necessarily during the Anthem.

Apropos of nothing, that new lipstick color was lovely on her.  

Edited August 11, 2016 by SophiaD

[EVS]

36 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

Nice story for the Final Five!

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/08/10/sports/olympics/gymnastics-parents.html?_r=1

Great title and beautiful accompanying picture.  Take that, Trautwig. 

[caprice]

FFS, NBC, can't we at least get an ETA on when you might show a few highlights of some of the male gymnasts?

 

If I could maintain a consistent internet connection on my laptop, I'd totally be live streaming with the rest of y'all.

Oh, and m. caprice has Canadian citizenship, so if worse comes to worse, it'll be easy for us to return to Canada. :D

[Fostersmom]

13 minutes ago, SophiaD said:

Apropos of nothing, that new lipstick color was lovely on her.  

It really was. It seemed a bit almost out of place for gymnastics when it's usually frilly and sparkles, but the color was great on her and I just kept thinking it would look amazing with a really great gown, almost a red carpet look in my head. I liked her hair too. I was NOT a fan of the buns she and Aly have been sporting earlier this Olympics. Those looked like they had a horn growing out of the tops of their heads. 

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, VMepicgrl said:

I was only taught to put my hand over my heart for the pledge in the public schools, not for the anthem.

Ditto for me, and I went to Department of Defense schools on military bases during the Cold War. You did the hand on the heart for the pledge, stood at attention for the national anthem, especially if you were singing. If you're wearing a hat, you might take it off and put it over your heart, but I don't recall ever putting a hand on the heart for the anthem. I always just stand at attention with hands at my sides, mostly because I was so used to being in band, where you had to hold an instrument while standing, or now because I'm usually singing. This is such a huge non-issue. She wasn't making any kind of protest sign, looking away, or doing anything at all disrespectful. Also, Gabby Douglas has grown up into a stunningly gorgeous young woman.

I'll be curious to see what the coverage of the women's All Around is like. I've so far found the women's events commentary to be rather mansplainy. Maybe it's because Tim is the senior analyst and he's supposed to do the talking while Nastia just provides commentary, but it strikes me as rather odd that a man who competed 30 years ago in different events under a different scoring system is doing all the talking about the women's gymnastics when a woman who won the All Around gold two Olympics ago under the current scoring system is sitting right there. I would think that she knows a ton more about the gymnastics actually being done by these women than he does, with the bonus perspective of being the daughter of former Soviet Olympians who are coaches.

[Fostersmom]

Are we supposed to feel sorry for them?  Poor, poor neglected men. Maybe this guy should talk to pretty much every single female athlete in every other sport with the slight exception of figure skaters and then he can talk about the inequality of money and opportunity. I just can't with this. 

[pivot]

Maybe with this 7th place finish Sam will finally hang it up. 

Can't wait for Simone to win AA tomorrow. I am #TeamGiveGoldtoBestGymnast. Simone is the best female gymnast of all time and I can't wrap my head around wishing for her to have a disastrous AA final just for some drama. And it would have to be a disaster because Aly isn't even in the same ballpark as a gymnast. Aly is a 3 event gymnast (her UB are atrocious) and she has had bad form for years. Her floor is entertaining but that's it.

In my dream scenario, Simone wins AA, Floor, Vault and gets silver on Beam. Laurie gets gold on Beam, Maddie and Gabby go 1-2 on UB and Aly can win AA silver and retire finally so we can have a true AAer as US's #2.

And the bitching about Gabby and hand over the heart is pure racism. Same way the right never gave a shit about this until Obama became president.

[Dots And Stripes]

3 minutes ago, Fostersmom said:

Are we supposed to feel sorry for them?  Poor, poor neglected men. Maybe this guy should talk to pretty much every single female athlete in every other sport with the slight exception of figure skaters and then he can talk about the inequality of money and opportunity. I just can't with this. 

I loved their fourth place medal blog, but yahoo has had some terrible coverage with figure skating and gymnastics in the past. This feels pretty typical for them. Good for Chris Brooks for this quote:

“It’s absolutely frustrating that it’s not equal, but I think it’s about winning,” said U.S. Olympian Chris Brooks. “The women have a wonderful track record of producing champions and medals over and over again. Companies want to be involved with champions and medal winners. If we’re going to complain about it, we also have to do better.”

[SophiaD]

The men's team should really have a chat with the US Women's Soccer Team.  Or the US Women's Basketball Team.  Two of the most dominant teams in their respective sports, and they get paid a fraction of what the men do and only the few, most marketable, stars get endorsement income.

[EyewatchTV211]

13 minutes ago, Fostersmom said:

Are we supposed to feel sorry for them?  Poor, poor neglected men. Maybe this guy should talk to pretty much every single female athlete in every other sport with the slight exception of figure skaters and then he can talk about the inequality of money and opportunity. I just can't with this. 

And the article suggests that the men have been neglected, attention-wise, even when they've "won." That this is the rare sport where the viewing public will always care more about the women, no matter what. Bronze medals are not the same as gold, sorry. Can't really compare.

[sab85]

That quote from Chris Brooks is nice. Also, Danell from the WSJ article:

"Danell Levya, the individual all-around bronze medalist in London, says there is one reliable way they can be as popular as the U.S. women: winning.

America’s female gymnasts “should be popular—and even more popular,” he said. “It’s one of the few events in this country where women do get the amount of credit they deserve.”"

I've never really like Danell because he seems cocky and Yin drives me bonkers but I really appreciate him giving the women their props. 

[Minneapple]

8 minutes ago, Fostersmom said:

Are we supposed to feel sorry for them?  Poor, poor neglected men. Maybe this guy should talk to pretty much every single female athlete in every other sport with the slight exception of figure skaters and then he can talk about the inequality of money and opportunity. I just can't with this. 

At least they realize that it's largely about not winning medals. 

OH LOOK THEY'VE PUT GYMNASTICS ON THE TELEVISION.

[Sew Sumi]

5 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

Men's Gymnastics faces an uphill battle in the USA. Boys tend to get steered to football, soccer, baseball, and basketball when they are young. Gymnastics is never on the radar as even an after-school activity. If a boy does have some flexibility he's likely to get sent to wrestling or swimming before gymnastics. 

Maybe wrestling, but boys who grow up to be gymnasts are generally too small to be competitive swimmers. Kohei is only what, 5'3"? So was Horton, if memory serves. 

[Fostersmom]

4 minutes ago, SophiaD said:

The men's team should really have a chat with the US Women's Soccer Team.  Or the US Women's Basketball Team.  Two of the most dominant teams in their respective sports, and they get paid a fraction of what the men do and only the few, most marketable, stars get endorsement income.

I heard a radio talkshow host talking about what the women's soccer team gets paid a few weeks ago. It was something crazy outlandishly uneven. Like here you go men's team, here's a billion dollars and here you go women's team… you get a free tee shirt and you owe us for your lodging and transportation. 

[caprice]

3 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

At least they realize that it's largely about not winning medals. 

OH LOOK THEY'VE PUT GYMNASTICS ON THE TELEVISION.

And they're showing more than just US gymnasts!

[Daisy]

14 minutes ago, pivot said:

Maybe with this 7th place finish Sam will finally hang it up. 

Can't wait for Simone to win AA tomorrow. I am #TeamGiveGoldtoBestGymnast. Simone is the best female gymnast of all time and I can't wrap my head around wishing for her to have a disastrous AA final just for some drama. And it would have to be a disaster because Aly isn't even in the same ballpark as a gymnast. Aly is a 3 event gymnast (her UB are atrocious) and she has had bad form for years. Her floor is entertaining but that's it.

In my dream scenario, Simone wins AA, Floor, Vault and gets silver on Beam. Laurie gets gold on Beam, Maddie and Gabby go 1-2 on UB and Aly can win AA silver and retire finally so we can have a true AAer as US's #2.

And the bitching about Gabby and hand over the heart is pure racism. Same way the right never gave a shit about this until Obama became president.

No one here has wished Simone to have a disaster. I know I certainly haven't. 
and I am team give the gold medal to the person who has the best meet. I'd like someone to have the meet or her life and beat Simone. That's all. 
 

[SophiaD]

Jonathan Horton is only 5' 1".  He was on American Ninja Warrior a few years ago, and much was made of him being the shortest man ever to get up their Warped Wall.

[Daisy]

4 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

At least they realize that it's largely about not winning medals. 

OH LOOK THEY'VE PUT GYMNASTICS ON THE TELEVISION.

LOL Tim. "Sam hasn't done 6 for 6...for ... a very long time."

hm. SU Al, Tim, and Nastia aren't really going at Ukraine. just "explaining" 

[Sew Sumi]

1 minute ago, SophiaD said:

Jonathan Horton is only 5' 1".  He was on American Ninja Warrior a few years ago, and much was made of him being the shortest man ever to get up their Warped Wall.

He mentioned today that his mother is only 4'8". He was talking about someone (forget who) being 5'7" and he remarked that would be tall for his family. :)

2 minutes ago, Daisy said:

LOL Tim. "Sam hasn't done 6 for 6...for ... a very long time."

hm. SU Al, Tim, and Nastia aren't really going at Ukraine. just "explaining" 

I don't get this for 3 more hours. What did they say about the Ukraine situation?

[Daisy]

3 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

He mentioned today that his mother is only 4'8". He was talking about someone (forget who) being 5'7" and he remarked that would be tall for his family. :)

I don't get this for 3 more hours. What did they say about the Ukraine situation?

Basically, "so ________ (Ukraine guy, not Oleg), went up. and touched. and then he went to the bars. and touched, and went to the floor, annnnnnd didn't perform. And it was really weird at the time, and we really don't know."

And then nastia was like well, Oleg felt really embarassed and tried to explain things, then Tim was like yah he even apologised to Switzerland because they were 9th and the Ukraine could have scratched, but didn't. 

and then that's it. and then went how Oleg went 4th for a few times. 

and Sam had a crap vault. Oh wow. Sam's knees actually hit the mat. 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Daisy

[Sew Sumi]

2 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I was speaking more about if a kid is found to be super bendy at a young age. Also, it wouldn't be impossible to be a gymnast if you're over 5'3". It's just harder. Taller gymnasts look beautiful as they swing on the high bar. 

I just used 5'3" as an  example. I think Leyva is 5'7", which isn't uncommon. However, they usually don't get much taller. There was that guy in quals who was trying to tumble on the floor at 5'11", and it looked painfully awkward. It would be problematic on Pommel Horse, too.  

[photo fox]

I love how they're pretending Sam has any chance of an AA medal.

I'm certainly not rooting for Simone to lose, but I think it's more interesting to watch if things are at least somewhat close. Coronations are boring, IMO. If the person who was supposed to win always won, then why even have meets? I always think it's fun when somebody outperforms expectations at the Olympics. (Basically repeating what I just posted in the beach volleyball thread.) #teamdrama

[LeafontheWind]

I know I am late to this party, but Max Whitlock is a cutie and I am glad he earned a spot on the podium. 

[maraleia]

One more thing about Gabby. She got crapped on in 2012 and it was all about her race so that's why I said what I said in my previous post. You better believe if Simone or Laurie had done the same thing they would be feeling the heat from social media critics. People are that mean and vindictive when it comes to anybody in the US who isn't white doing well in any aspect of society.

[Daisy]

Just now, photo fox said:

I love how they're pretending Sam has any chance of an AA medal.

I'm certainly not rooting for Simone to lose, but I think it's more interesting to watch if things are at least somewhat close. Coronations are boring, IMO. If the person who was supposed to win always won, then why even have meets? I always think it's fun when somebody outperforms expectations at the Olympics. (Basically repeating what I just posted in the beach volleyball thread.) #teamdrama

Exactly. like I bet i know exactly what you said in the beach volleyball thread too. ;) (I watched that game, and I was chanting for Drama lol).- and i've said this like three-four times already. If Simone wins. I'll be happy for her. I'll be excited to watching something exciting and historic. You know what would also make it more fun? if Simone had a challenge.  I know some people don't mind the domination (and sometimes I don't, like hell, if we were talking about Hockey, I want the Men/Women to go perfect, and win their golds, thanks you kindly. but you know what was so memorable about the 2010 Men's gold? the fact that they weren't perfect. I appreciate and <3 that win a hell of a lot more than the 2014's repeat. For the women - 2002/2014's golds stand out to me more than 2006-2010. Why? because it was drama.).  Colour me weird I suppose. 

anyway. i just want a close meet.

[Scovies]

Is anyone else annoyed at the "Oleg's country has never won a gold medal in gymnastics" narrative? It's like Lilia Podkopayeva never existed. Qualify your hyperbole, NBC!