S08.E15: All Bets Are Off

[ElDosEquis]

21 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Not silently endure, not advocating that at all.  I loved it when Jules actually could articulate herself about her eating disorder and give Bethenny and Carole the low down about her dealing with it, and how they don't know the works she puts in....but don't cry that the other housewives are talking behind your back, or wonder why everyone is screaming and yelling or whine that the other ladies are not being supportive of your issues.  Give me a break! 

Let's put this into perspective?

If I send a private message to another member and say something like User1234 is a slut, whore and blows Siamese Twins for a dollar behind the Wal-Mart. That message is a private communication between two people. If I say the SAME THING and post it on the board. People will rally to one side or the other.

People will either hate me or side with User1234 - but why cause an uproar or talk shit when there is no need to?

A craftsman only needs a hammer to drive a nail, bring a sledgehammer to do the same job and you are going to end up driving the nail and then fixing all the all the damage you caused because you weren't smart enough to know your tools?

[shoegal]

2 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

Let's put this into perspective?

If I send a private message to another member and say something like User1234 is a slut, whore and blows Siamese Twins for a dollar behind the Wal-Mart. That message is a private communication between two people. If I say the SAME THING and post it on the board. People will rally to one side or the other.

People will either hate me or side with User1234 - but why cause an uproar or talk shit when there is no need to?

A craftsman only needs a hammer to drive a nail, bring a sledgehammer to do the same job and you are going to end up driving the nail and then fixing all the all the damage you caused because you weren't smart enough to know your tools?

Well, are either you or User1234 a cast member of the Real Housewives?  If so, then I'm gonna need you to get it right and call User1234 a prostitution whore....and if you can flip up a table while doing it, we'll make you a millionaire and celebrate it for years!  Years!!

[Yours Truly]

26 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

I can GUARAN-FUCKING-TEE that MOST of us would have the hair on the back of our necks standing straight up and would jump face first into B or C's airspace IF they decided to attack and gang - up on you? Or how's about talking smack about our homes, the way we eat or dress?

I think the most common answer (LIE) is going to be, "Oh I don't pay attention' or 'it's just talk' - but you'd have to be a few ticks away from a coma if you didn't react to the shit that beffy and scare-ole spew?

One of the most satisfying empowerments is to find a voice for any kind of situation and the ability to use it to further some kind of understanding - but that same voice can be used to deride, hurt and embarrass people. Either way?

Something is going to hit the fan.

Fecal matter or platitudes?

One tick away from coma!!!! Oh mannn LOVE THIS!!!! LOL! Beautiful.

[Midnight Cheese]

What happened in Nice is an atrocity and an act of terrorism, driven by any or multiple or no ultimately known cause.

The manner in which Carehole, Anal Tenant and her generalissima, Landlord Frankel, have TH'd and written about John and Jules is vile, disgusting - like Tamra Barney levels of vile for me- and I am completely comfortable with that language in both instances, describing something of global consequence and something I perceive as unnecessary, cruel, deliberate and demeaning.   I know I'm allowed both opinions and  am pretty comfy with my stances.   

Edited July 15, 2016 by Midnight Cheese
Phone typing remains a challenge arrrr

[Yours Truly]

20 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Why not?  I guess no other reason than it makes her look like a fucking idiot.  We are now a decade into the RH experiment, it's no longer about women who have exciting or interesting lives.  It's bitching, it's catfights, it's shit talking and alliances and 'taking people down'.  ....and Jules signed up, walked in eyes wide open.  Poor, pitiful Jules.  LOL!

It doesn't make her look like an idiot. Only to some and quite honestly there are those of us that find her reactions pretty valid, understanding and expected actually so.....

Yeah...

[Natalie68]

23 hours ago, Castina said:

A final note.  I understand now why Jules isn't on next season.  She either walked away from the insanity that is Bethenny or Carole or they were so outraged and pissed off they got her fired. 

Or, if its true, production isn't comfortable with someone in full fledged uncontrolled ED mode.  The season is proving that she isn't far enough into recovery to handle swimming with sharks.  You really have to be a strong person for this show and to be around people so quick on their toes (Bethenny, Tamara, Lisa VP).  It is not for the weak/meek individual.

I am not sure how they should handle Jules.  Ignore her disorder you are a unfeeling creep.  Talk about it you are an unfeeling creep.  SHE made it part of her storyline as a way to help others.  Disorder or not, I am not sure I could have kept my WTF face under wraps if I saw some utensils baked into food.  Yes they shouldn't be assholes to her.  She also cannot use the disorder as a shield to protect her from others IF she dives into the deep end of the pool with the sharks (not saying she is).  I don't think Carol and Bethenny have been awful to her.  Maybe not as gentle as Dorinda Meddler (great name) but they are workmates not besties.

[ElDosEquis]

20 minutes ago, OhGromit said:

It's true.  The constant fighting, paranoia, and nitpicking... it's constant tension.  And it makes people blogging about the show tense, too, I think.  A lot of commenters on Vulture (Brian Moylan RHONY recaps) have noted that the tone of the comments has gotten particularly negative.  The world is too stressful and angry a place for viewers (or at least me) to want to watch a show that's all about infighting, backstabbing, and shaming each other.  Not a respite from the stress of life.  

I am probably way out of the demographic for the show but my reasons for watching was I missed working in an office with women. I loved all the drama, snark, complexities and fun.  The HWs allowed me to watch them interact, but I didn't have to get involved, take sides or referee. I could just turn off the TV set and come back later on.

Where I get tripped up every time (I should know this by now?) Is how fucking cruel people can be to each other. I have cheered all the housewives on at one point or another and hate it when someone I thought was kinda fun to watch, turns into a raging asshole.

And that makes me feel like a raging asshole for liking them.

[shoegal]

42 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

I can GUARAN-FUCKING-TEE that MOST of us would have the hair on the back of our necks standing straight up and would jump face first into B or C's airspace IF they decided to attack and gang - up on you? Or how's about talking smack about our homes, the way we eat or dress?

I think the most common answer (LIE) is going to be, "Oh I don't pay attention' or 'it's just talk' - but you'd have to be a few ticks away from a coma if you didn't react to the shit that beffy and scare-ole spew?

One of the most satisfying empowerments is to find a voice for any kind of situation and the ability to use it to further some kind of understanding - but that same voice can be used to deride, hurt and embarrass people. Either way?

Something is going to hit the fan.

Fecal matter or platitudes?

I dunno, I think I could go toe to toe with Bethenny and Carole.  I don't find Bethenny to be that intimidating.....she's quick on her feet but so am I, I think we could hang.  I certainly would know what I was walking in to, regardless. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by shoegal

[jinjer]

42 minutes ago, OhGromit said:

It's true.  The constant fighting, paranoia, and nitpicking... it's constant tension.  And it makes people blogging about the show tense, too, I think.  A lot of commenters on Vulture (Brian Moylan RHONY recaps) have noted that the tone of the comments has gotten particularly negative.  The world is too stressful and angry a place for viewers (or at least me) to want to watch a show that's all about infighting, backstabbing, and shaming each other.  Not a respite from the stress of life.  

ITA and think Bethenny's behavior on the show and Carole's lack of self-awareness as exhibited by her behavior on twitter just drives home this point. They have great fucking lives, and all I am seeing is bitterness and lack of ownership for their treatment of Jules.  Carole admits on twitter that Jules is suffering from a mental illness but even if what Carole says is mean, it's ok to say it, bc it is the truth.  It's like the two of them have never heard the old adage, "If you don't have something nice to say, say nothing."  Generally I am of the opinion that the more snark the better, but Bethenny's never ending criticism and bitter, bile-filled rants have none of the fun, self-deprecating humor or any humor at all any more.  

Like ScoobyDoo said above, I am finding this show almost stressful to watch.  OC is like a breath of fresh air.  And you know what else? OC spends time each episode showing showing family time and it is so nice.  Not grunge Adam or Bethenny's sounding board interns or the ever changing world of interns at Sonja's.  There are families that we can actually enjoy on the other shows.  

Edited July 15, 2016 by jinjer

[Yours Truly]

Vile and evil is used because this sort of disregard for others can affect the outcome of people's lives. Jules is suffering from a very serious disorder where death can and has be the result if not gotten under control. Whether it's The Real Housewives or the Christian channel. Whether it's their responsibility or not. Whether it was a bad decision on Jules part to sign on or not. The truth and seriousness of the matter is that Carole and Beth disregarding how their callous and thoughtless, selfish, self righteous, nasty and dismissive actions and attacks towards a person who can go either way on the health spectrum is akin to heartless, evil and vile because whether anyone wants to validate it or not it CAN adversely affect her health. The same way extreme bullying can drive people to suicide. These type of irresponsible "cattiness" as some like to minimize it as do affect people on a larger level so yeah it does legitimately get under people's skin. Some are insightful enough to actually understand the possible severity of their actions and therefore assign harsher labels on them and their actions. And rightfully so I say.

Anyone who doesn't recognize the real impact being nasty, asshole twats to a person struggling with a potentially fatal disease, a disease with risks that can escalate by environmental contributors is someone unaware, heartless and dangerous. AKA Beth Frankel and Carol Radziwell

Edited July 15, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Natalie68]

14 hours ago, Knuckles said:

I'll take a stab at that. They are the quiet, cringing sorts you run into at offices all over America, who are routinely walked on by everybody. They rarely speak up, and are passed over for promotions and pay raises. But man, they will cheer on old Bethy. The badly used will be the first to cheer on an authoritarian control freak...who insults and crushes any opposition...even if said authoritarian has to start a fight in order to win one.  They have Bethy acting out their revenge fantasies. That the other housewives are actual people means little to them. The skinny chick's monologues about her terrible childhood and her relative poverty, now overcome, are compelling to them. That most of it is a fabrication doesn't matter...Beth's real branding is herself as a victim who has risen from the ashes. And they love watching poor, victimized Beth dominate the other rich bitches. She's turned a princess into a lapdog, and it explains why she keeps going after Luann...she needs to bring down the Countess.

Lu of course ain't playing, and if she marries Tom, she can blow this pop stand. Beth is probably tied to the show as it provides endless free advertising for Beam...I am sure that Beam was behind her return.

Hmmmm.  I mean no disrespect but man this is very insulting to those of us that do not hate Bethenny.  I am not someone who fails to see her flaws but geez.  Way to insult fellow posters.

[Midnight Cheese]

8 minutes ago, jinjer said:

ITA and think Bethenny's behavior on the show and Carole's lack of self-awareness as exhibited by her behavior on twitter just drives home this point. They have great fucking lives, and all I am seeing is bitterness and lack of ownership for their treatment of Jules.  Carole admits on twitter that Jules is suffering from a mental illness but even if what Carole says is mean, it's ok to say it, bc it is the truth.  It's like the two of them have never heard the old adage, "If you don't have something nice to say, say nothing."  Generally I am of the opinion that the more snark the better, but Bethenny's never ending criticism and bitter, bile-filled rants have none of the fun, self-deprecating humor or any humor at all any more.  

Like ScoobyDoo said above, I am finding this show almost stressful to watch.  OC is like a breath of fresh air.  And you know what else? OC spends time each episode showing showing family time and it is so nice.  Not grunge Adam or Bethenny's sounding board interns or the ever changing world of interns at Sonja's.  There are families that we can actually enjoy on the other shows.  

ICAM.  B and C are punching down on someone they knew, while filming, was having a rough go.  Yet their reflection and consideration of their bitchassedness is 'nuh uh I AM THE REAL VICTIM.'  Get the fuck out with that.

I may or may not get excited when Leon rolls into a Real Housewives (Atl) scene.  Point well made.

[ladle]

Am I missing something?  Why would Jules have told Bethenny intimate and potentially damning details about her marriage?  Both Jules and Bethenny seem to agree that this was the case, but WHHYYYYY (*arms raised to heaven in a panoramic shot in the rain*) on earth would Jules ever open up like that to someone she barely knows?  Especially if it's Bethenny?  Does Jules really just have diarrhea of the mouth?  Or is there a dimension to the Beth/Jules relationship that we haven't seen on the show?  Very confusing to me.

[ElDosEquis]

15 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Or, if its true, production isn't comfortable with someone in full fledged uncontrolled ED mode.  The season is proving that she isn't far enough into recovery to handle swimming with sharks.  You really have to be a strong person for this show and to be around people so quick on their toes (Bethenny, Tamara, Lisa VP).  It is not for the weak/meek individual.

I am not sure how they should handle Jules.  Ignore her disorder you are a unfeeling creep.  Talk about it you are an unfeeling creep.  SHE made it part of her storyline as a way to help others.  Disorder or not, I am not sure I could have kept my WTF face under wraps if I saw some utensils baked into food.  Yes they shouldn't be assholes to her.  She also cannot use the disorder as a shield to protect her from others IF she dives into the deep end of the pool with the sharks (not saying she is).  I don't think Carol and Bethenny have been awful to her.  Maybe not as gentle as Dorinda Meddler (great name) but they are workmates not besties.

You missed the third option....

You pull Jules aside and tell her that you noticed she doesn't eat much and you are worried about her. You listen if she talks and offer and ear, shoulder or a few words of support. No need to have flashbacks of being raised in a wolf den or pile your fucked up existence onto the back of another person.

If you can't hold your shit? At least go to the edge of the clearing and empty your bowels. I am sure beffy had used a whole roll of tissue trying to clean up her thighs after a few episodes this season?

We know that she is a slob when it comes to her menses, so why do I expect her take a shit where we can't see it?

[shoegal]

3 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Vile and evil is used because this sort of disregard for others can affect the outcome of people's lives. Jules is suffering from a very serious disorder where death can and has be the result if not gotten under control. Whether it's The Real Housewives or the Christian channel. Whether it's their responsibility or not. Whether it was a bad decision on Jules part to sign on or not. The truth and seriousness of the matter is that Carole and Beth disregarding how their callous and thoughtless, selfish, self righteous, nasty and dismissive actions and attacks towards a person who can go either way on the health spectrum is akin to heartless, evil and vile because whether anyone wants to validate it or not it CAN adversely affect her health. The same way extreme bullying can drive people to suicide. These type of irresponsible "cattiness" as some like to minimize it as do affect people on a larger level so yeah it does legitimately get under people's skin. Some are insightful enough to actually understand the possible severity of there actions and therefore assign harsher labels on them and their actions. And rightfully so I say.

Anyone who doesn't recognize the real impact being nasty, asshole twats to a person struggling with a potentially fatal disease, a disease with risks that can escalate by environmental contributors is someone unaware, heartless and dangerous. AKA Beth Frankel and Carol Radziwell

This makes me think of Kim Richards.  If you have never, take a peek over at the RHOBH thread about Kim. 

Seriously, I fail to see how Bethenny and Carole have treated Jules in such a horrible way as to endanger her life.  Jules has been claiming she is fine, she's healthy, she's in recovery, she's got it covered, she sees someone twice a week!   What I have seen from Carole and Bethenny is them try to suggest that maybe Jules is not fine, despite her protests...and with Jules' relapse admission, it seems they are right. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

1 hour ago, OhGromit said:

It's true.  The constant fighting, paranoia, and nitpicking... it's constant tension.  And it makes people blogging about the show tense, too, I think.  A lot of commenters on Vulture (Brian Moylan RHONY recaps) have noted that the tone of the comments has gotten particularly negative.  The world is too stressful and angry a place for viewers (or at least me) to want to watch a show that's all about infighting, backstabbing, and shaming each other.  Not a respite from the stress of life.  

What's making this show difficult (and now approaching impossible) for me to watch is the tone that Bethenny has set.  It also has everything to do with the unbalance of status between these women.  It throws the show off, that Bethenny is top dawg & everyone is terrified of her -- too terrified to say or do anything to upset her.  Not exactly difficult to do, given the super-duper sensitive nutcase she is.

Look, throw a group of people to work together & sure, you'll get infighting & backstabbing & whatever other unpleasantness which might occur when people may not get along.  It might even be compelling, interesting & fun to watch.  But make no mistake, these are people who work together.  Are any of these women real friends?  Meh, I don't believe it.  I certainly don't believe Carole's horseshit she's throwing out on Twitter now of being 100% real friends with Bethenny.  The woman has no friends.  I don't even think she'd consider her dog her friend.

The thing is, these women are not a group of executives, where one might have higher status or ranking.  They should all be at the same level -- except maybe for a newbie like Jules, trying to fit in with the group & getting comfy with the cams.  That's not the case now.  Everyone's terror, fear & frightfulness of Bethenny has thrown the show so far off.

So whose fault is this?  I don't especially blame Bethenny.  She hasn't changed from who she's been since she became rich.  She's mostly humorless, nasty, vicious, cruel, self-absorbed & horrible.  She is who she is.  The producers know who she is (as we do).  

But I say it's the fault of the producers (and Bethenny is merely one of many of them), this show has gone so off kilter.  As I said before, it can be corrected, but they really need to cast someone (or preferably several) who can effectively stand up to Bethenny.  Otherwise, the show is now just about Bethenny ranting & the others hiding under Carole's ragged, peed on leopard couch, cowering in terror, horror & fear.  And that, I'll pass on.

You know, I get where the producers are at with Bethenny.  Before she came back, the ratings were slipping.  So that has stopped.  The ratings increased slighly -- but not really all that much.  So maybe they feel they could just do nothing & leave this as The Bethenny Ranting Show & ratings wil be fine and dandy.  Shrugging hard because maybe they're right.  Idk.  I just know I won't be watching anymore if it keeps up like this.

Edited July 15, 2016 by ScoobieDoobs

[LIMOM]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

I think Jules is a bust as a cast member. She's not all that smart. She seems to have no real interests. And her life seems to be unraveling in a real and sad way.

This show used to feel really New York. We used to see New York events and New York places. I feel like we lost the last bit of this when Heather left the cast. She sang some cabaret at Birdland. She had her Yummie salon in the Bloomies flagship last season. Heather and Carole would gossip and walk the Highline. This show no longer feels New Yorky.

Even though they are all younger than the RHoNY cast, I would have loved a little bit of crossover with the Blood Sweat and Heels cast. Demetria has always given me a baby Bethenny vibe. She often does women's empowerment seminars like the one Bethenny botched. Mica and Chantelle both have modeling and talent agencies. And Arzo has a clothing showroom for new and upcoming designers and a styling business. These ladies still have a ton of events in and around New York. I don't see why they couldn't be friends of the housewives and invite the RHoNY women to their events. Plus any event the Blood Sweat and Heels women have cannot be stupider than the dog wedding.

She might not be all that smart HOWEVER she verbalized and later wrote a blog that summarized what m

any viewers feel about Beth, therefore she is winning big time. 

As far as being New York, Jules is so New York.......I went to college in NYC with so many chicks like her...

I can't imagine the RHONY cast mixing with the BSH cast. They are so much younger and hipper. No bueno.

[janie2002]

1 hour ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

For me, the behavior (of Bethenny's & Carole too) shoved at us this season is just so ugly & unpleasant to watch, and makes me so tense, I'm honestly ready to give up on the show.  I wasn't especially anxious to even catch this ep, but was drawn in by the preview of Jules telling off Bethenny.  Figured it would be worth checking out to finally see someoe who isn't terrified of Bethenny, or up her ass & who would call her out on her vile behavior.

I don't wanna be "moaning" about Bethenny's & Carole's vile behavior, but sheesh, that sure as fuck is what's being thrown out (again & again & again & again -- endlessly) particularly in this ep.  But this fowl shit has been going on all season with both of 'em.  They're horrible & I hate watching 'em.  Am I hooked on watching 'em?  No!!!! Am I hate watching now?  No!!!!  I'm ready to give up & stop watching, exactly as I did with BH.

I agree with above complaints how they're really not using the NYC setting in the best way.  The show could be so much better.

I think they desperately need to cast someone who can effectively stand up to Bethenny.  Someone richer, younger, better looking, who would drive Bethenny crazy & get her seething with rage & jealousy.  Someone tougher, who could give Bethenny some of that "I'm up here & you're down there" shit, which Kelly was too stupid to carry off.  They need someone who could literally punch Bethenny right square in her re-jiggered jaw & just knock her right off her feet.  Now, that I would love to watch!  But what we're getting now?  Meh & blech.

I'd much rather leave the "moaning" to Moaner.

They had someone cast who was pretty, smart, tough, competitive, rich and had earned it all herself, good marriage and lovely kids... and Beth ran her off.

I still miss Heather!

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

A-to-the-freaking-men!  I am willing to go farther and say that the main reason Jules was cast is because she has an eating disorder and Jules freaking knows it! Obviously the desire for reality TV fame is the most important thing to Jules.  Then she wants to clutch her pearls (or pearl necklace as the case may be) and be outraged that the other housewives dare to talk about her eating disorder??  On camera??  "behind her back"??  Bitch, please.  Get a clue. 

Or a verb. 

There is a difference between gossiping and talking about someone/something behind their back and Bethenny/Carole go the gossip route IMO (something they are not alone in doing as it is HW's 101).

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

Not silently endure, not advocating that at all.  I loved it when Jules actually could articulate herself about her eating disorder and give Bethenny and Carole the low down about her dealing with it, and how they don't know the works she puts in....but don't cry that the other housewives are talking behind your back, or wonder why everyone is screaming and yelling or whine that the other ladies are not being supportive of your issues.  Give me a break! 

Then why does Bethenny get so worked up when she finds out someone is gossiping about her behind her back, to the point of angrily confronting them? Why are Bethenny/Carole so upset that Dorinda is talking about them to the others, spreading gossip just like they do? It's just not Jules that "clutches her pearls", Bethenny and Carole do it as well. If Bethenny and Carole were that concerned about Jules, talk to her face to face, not accuse her of things behind her back, that was Jules point. Well that and the fact that Bethenny uses the others for fodder/jokes at their expense. Her jokes are not funny, they are designed to draw blood/hurt/belittle the HW. 

[ElDosEquis]

36 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Well, are either you or User1234 a cast member of the Real Housewives?  If so, then I'm gonna need you to get it right and call User1234 a prostitution whore....and if you can flip up a table while doing it, we'll make you a millionaire and celebrate it for years!  Years!!

No, I wouldn't want to be a cast member because I don't like to be photographed, am stupid with my money, never show anger or call people out in public. I would do it for a chance to be able to touch one of The Ramoana-coasters boobs. They intrigue me.

[LIMOM]

7 minutes ago, ladle said:

Am I missing something?  Why would Jules have told Bethenny intimate and potentially damning details about her marriage?  Both Jules and Bethenny seem to agree that this was the case, but WHHYYYYY (*arms raised to heaven in a panoramic shot in the rain*) on earth would Jules ever open up like that to someone she barely knows?  Especially if it's Bethenny?  Does Jules really just have diarrhea of the mouth?  Or is there a dimension to the Beth/Jules relationship that we haven't seen on the show?  Very confusing to me.

It is either bullshit that Beth is spewing or Jules is so fucking stressed and confused that she revels intimate details of her marriage to strangers either ways Beth is an asshole for blackmailing her.

[shoegal]

3 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

There is a difference between gossiping and talking about someone/something behind their back and Bethenny/Carole go the gossip route IMO (something they are not alone in doing as it is HW's 101).

Then why does Bethenny get so worked up when she finds out someone is gossiping about her behind her back, to the point of angrily confronting them? Why are Bethenny/Carole so upset that Dorinda is talking about them to the others, spreading gossip just like they do? It's just not Jules that "clutches her pearls", Bethenny and Carole do it as well. If Bethenny and Carole were that concerned about Jules, talk to her face to face, not accuse her of things behind her back, that was Jules point. Well that and the fact that Bethenny uses the others for fodder/jokes at their expense. Her jokes are not funny, they are designed to draw blood/hurt/belittle the HW. 

Bethenny and Carole were upset because they claim what Dorinda (allegedly) said wasn't true and didn't happen. As Carole said at the dinner, "talking behind each other's backs" is par for the course. 

Carole at least has confronted Jules about her ED and issues with food, and Jules didn't like that either.  I never got what Carole and Bethenny were accusing Jules of behind her back?

Edited July 15, 2016 by shoegal

[ElDosEquis]

1 minute ago, shoegal said:

Bethenny and Carole were upset because they claim what Dorinda (allegedly) said wasn't true and didn't happen. As Carole said at the dinner, "talking behind each other's backs" is par for the course. 

Well, there is a chance for either one to shoot a hole-in-one....but the probability is pretty low?

[zoeysmom]

I am honestly one who wants to know more details about Jules and her eating disorder journey.  Where I think Bethenny and Carole come off as uncaring is they have failed to recognize her progress.  From the little Jules has provided we know she at one time weighed only 80 pounds.  So if she gained 30% of her body weight (24 lbs) she would weigh 104 pounds, since she told Carole she did not know how much she weighed and Carole pushed for an answer (115 lbs.) so she and Bethennny could call her dishonest and debunk her lack of progress.  So I see Jules progress as gaining back 30-40 percent of her weight when she hit rock bottom.  If Jules were a former 200 pound woman who lost 30% (60 lbs.) of her top weight, would it be right to say the now 140 pound should should weigh 115 pounds, because that is Bethenny or Carole's idea of perfect?  I think that is where the lack of empathy stems from-the lack of acknowledging progress.  I don't know if the meal Jules threw up three days earlier was a McDonald's Happy Meal, or a sixteen course meal because no one cared enough to ask. What she was feeling when she slipped.  Was she angry, lonely, spending too much time in front of the mirror?  Or how often she slips? 

I guess it would be easy to blame Bethenny and Carole for not wanting to give up camera time to hear her story, or perhaps they just don't have the gene for compassion towards others because the show does not lend itself to that model.  Jules felt as if she offered up her story and even went so far as to say by telling her story she would be receptive to red flags.  What Jules monologue revealed is Bethenny and Carole had to admit they just don't care about her.  This is Jules who saw Bethenny go after Dorinda, John, Luann, heard about Sonja and had a few barbs thrown her way.  For Bethenny to claim it is okay because she is funny and she doesn't care just isn't passing muster.  It is as fake as her blanket apology to Sonja.   Bethenny doesn't have the time or the common courtesy to allow someone to finish a thought, as if that person's stuttering has robbed her of five seconds she will never get back.  I noticed during the Jules conversation, Bethenny stuttered, the word she repeated three times I, I,  I.  Bethenny is a repeater, if she doesn't get the desired response, laughter or agreement she goes back down the same road.   

[mostlylurking]

I think Jules held her own and then some. Beth is not used to anyone coming at her so you could tell she was completely taken off guard. Then she tried to deflect and make everything about her by saying she's keeping her distance because of Jules' eating disorder, when in actuality the issue was more Beth always talking shit about everyone and literally laughing in Jules' face. And then Beth starts whining about Jules yelling at her, when in fact SHE was speaking louder than Jules was! Jules was open, honest, and vulnerable without completely loosing it.

Carole, no one cares about you so I don't know why you kept desperately trying to interject your opinion. Dorinda was right, she is mean. But alas, I don't think anyone cares.

[LIMOM]

28 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I dunno, I think I could go toe to toe with Bethenny and Carole.  I don't find Bethenny to be that intimidating.....she's quick on her feet but so am I, I think we could hang.  I certainly would know what I was walking in to, regardless. 

Sure, until you realize that your livelihood depends upon kissing up Beth ass which is why Carole is calling Beth "framily".

[KungFuBunny]

8 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

No, I wouldn't want to be a cast member because I don't like to be photographed, am stupid with my money, never show anger or call people out in public. I would do it for a chance to be able to touch one of The Ramoana-coasters boobs. They intrigue me.

Speaking of my favorite Craymona, I can't wait till they go to Miami

I want to see her + Floaty Noodle

I was disappointed seeing Sonja's "Flipper" This means her tooth fell out and it wasn't captured for the show

[shoegal]

7 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I am honestly one who wants to know more details about Jules and her eating disorder journey.  Where I think Bethenny and Carole come off as uncaring is they have failed to recognize her progress.  From the little Jules has provided we know she at one time weighed only 80 pounds.  So if she gained 30% of her body weight (24 lbs) she would weigh 104 pounds, since she told Carole she did not know how much she weighed and Carole pushed for an answer (115 lbs.) so she and Bethennny could call her dishonest and debunk her lack of progress.  So I see Jules progress as gaining back 30-40 percent of her weight when she hit rock bottom.  If Jules were a former 200 pound woman who lost 30% (60 lbs.) of her top weight, would it be right to say the now 140 pound should should weigh 115 pounds, because that is Bethenny or Carole's idea of perfect?  I think that is where the lack of empathy stems from-the lack of acknowledging progress.  I don't know if the meal Jules threw up three days earlier was a McDonald's Happy Meal, or a sixteen course meal because no one cared enough to ask. What she was feeling when she slipped.  Was she angry, lonely, spending too much time in front of the mirror?  Or how often she slips? 

I guess it would be easy to blame Bethenny and Carole for not wanting to give up camera time to hear her story, or perhaps they just don't have the gene for compassion towards others because the show does not lend itself to that model.  Jules felt as if she offered up her story and even went so far as to say by telling her story she would be receptive to red flags.  What Jules monologue revealed is Bethenny and Carole had to admit they just don't care about her.  This is Jules who saw Bethenny go after Dorinda, John, Luann, heard about Sonja and had a few barbs thrown her way.  For Bethenny to claim it is okay because she is funny and she doesn't care just isn't passing muster.  It is as fake as her blanket apology to Sonja.   Bethenny doesn't have the time or the common courtesy to allow someone to finish a thought, as if that person's stuttering has robbed her of five seconds she will never get back.  I noticed during the Jules conversation, Bethenny stuttered, the word she repeated three times I, I,  I.  Bethenny is a repeater, if she doesn't get the desired response, laughter or agreement she goes back down the same road.   

I honestly don't think that they were trying to call her dishonest and debunk her lack of progress, I think they saw it as another sign of her denial.

[babykin]

As someone with an eating disorder, it is forever. It does not leave. EVER.

• You do not ask an anorexic what she weighs.
• You do not comment on their food.

This is just common decency, which B and C both lack. Leave Jules the fuck alone. For Beth to make this about her mother and herself is so narcissistic it's painful. They are basically bullying Jules. 

Few things about food rituals: not ALL people with an ED serve huge spreads of food. Not all people with an ED put cutlery in their food. Everyone has different stuff so Beth can stop pretending she is an expert. And if she is an expert, she would know that what she is doing is vile.

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

Why not?  I guess no other reason than it makes her look like a fucking idiot.  We are now a decade into the RH experiment, it's no longer about women who have exciting or interesting lives.  It's bitching, it's catfights, it's shit talking and alliances and 'taking people down'.  ....and Jules signed up, walked in eyes wide open.  Poor, pitiful Jules.  LOL!

As many here have pointed out, the Bethenny from season 1 thru 3 is not the same Bethenny we see now. She is harder, nastier, more vulgar and so much angrier than ever before. Even had Jules seen/studied every episode from the start of MM thru last season, I don't think it would/could have prepared her for the Bethenny she encountered during filming.

42 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Or, if its true, production isn't comfortable with someone in full fledged uncontrolled ED mode.  The season is proving that she isn't far enough into recovery to handle swimming with sharks.  You really have to be a strong person for this show and to be around people so quick on their toes (Bethenny, Tamara, Lisa VP).  It is not for the weak/meek individual.

I am not sure how they should handle Jules.  Ignore her disorder you are a unfeeling creep.  Talk about it you are an unfeeling creep.  SHE made it part of her storyline as a way to help others.  Disorder or not, I am not sure I could have kept my WTF face under wraps if I saw some utensils baked into food.  Yes they shouldn't be assholes to her.  She also cannot use the disorder as a shield to protect her from others IF she dives into the deep end of the pool with the sharks (not saying she is).  I don't think Carol and Bethenny have been awful to her.  Maybe not as gentle as Dorinda Meddler (great name) but they are workmates not besties.

By talking to her face to face, 1 on 1, even on camera. Ask questions, listen to the answers and don't make it about yourself (Bethenny). That's how you handle it, not these nasty gossip sessions designed to either make fun of or shame Jules.

[LIMOM]

4 minutes ago, babykin said:

As someone with an eating disorder, it is forever. It does not leave. EVER.

• You do not ask an anorexic what she weighs.
• You do not comment on their food.

This is just common decency, which B and C both lack. Leave Jules the fuck alone. For Beth to make this about her mother and herself is so narcissistic it's painful. They are basically bullying Jules. 

Few things about food rituals: not ALL people with an ED serve huge spreads of food. Not all people with an ED put cutlery in their food. Everyone has different stuff so Beth can stop pretending she is an expert. And if she is an expert, she would know that what she is doing is vile.

Who on earth ask any women about their weight?

What's next? our age? ;-)

Fuck this shit.

While bullying rarely applies in adult relationships, it is totally applicable here as Beth is Andy's right hand maiden.

[Yours Truly]

11 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I honestly don't think that they were trying to call her dishonest and debunk her lack of progress, I think they saw it as another sign of her denial.

But they were wrong.

How is a women admitting left right and center that she has a problem in denial?

Even after all that Carole sat back and said she knows about denial.

Who does that? Even after Jules declaration to the whole table. How is that dick move NOT completely obvious?

[WireWrap]

19 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Bethenny and Carole were upset because they claim what Dorinda (allegedly) said wasn't true and didn't happen. As Carole said at the dinner, "talking behind each other's backs" is par for the course. 

Well, it remains to be seen what Bethenny/Carole have said to Dorinda about Jules because we do know they talked about her to Ramona and Dorinda but didn't really talk to Jules about it face to face. As for Carole's comment, she gets angry when anyone talks about her behind her back as we have seen for a few seasons now as well. LOL Oh, and Bethenny hates it as well, she goes ballistic on whoever talks about her in a negative way. There is no way in Hell that either Bethenny or Carole would just sit back and take it if any of the others gossiped about them like they did Jules or Luann.......never, they would explode all over them! LOL Can you imagine if Luann gossiped that Bethenny was overreacting about her fibroids/bleeding on camera to the others or that Bethenny wasn't handling it in the correct way on camera? LOL

[zoeysmom]

9 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I honestly don't think that they were trying to call her dishonest and debunk her lack of progress, I think they saw it as another sign of her denial.

Here is the problem, when one is being deposed you are told, don't guess or estimate.  So if the person is asked how many people were standing at the dock, and they answer I don't know, it is pretty poor form then to come back and say, "how many people do you think were standing at the dock?" If the deponent says five and there were ten, it doesn't make them dishonest or in denial, it makes the asker disingenuous because the person already said they didn't know.  In this case Jules said she had to be weighed with her back turned.  So maybe the 115 pounds is what she weighed the last time she looked.  It doesn't make her in denial if she doesn't know.  It is also contrary to her recovery to get stuck on numbers.   Since these ladies do not spend much more than a few hours together, short of Jules giving them a rundown of what and when she eats everyday at every meal they have no basis for her being in denial and quite frankly Carole was inappropriate to suggest it.  Jules admitted she slipped.  To use terms like the disease is based on dishonesty is harsh.  People lie to themselves everyday it is not necessarily dishonest it is just human nature.   

[shoegal]

10 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

But they were wrong.

How is a women admitting left right and center that she has a problem in denial?

Even after all that Carole sat back and said she knows about denial.

Who does that? Even after Jules declaration to the whole table. How is that dick move NOT completely obvious?

Jules seems to be saying both things, that she's fine and that's she's still has a problem.  Her interactions with Carole have been Jules insisting she's fine, brushing off concern, claiming she's healthy enough to have her period and birth two children, that the bizarre calzone incident wasn't a "food issue" and there wasn't an issue with an anorexic/bulimic taking Adderall, even during the Joanne discussion she was like 'I love my bony arms' and 'I just threw up my food'....seriously she's all over the map, so I don't think that Jules is admitting left right and center that she has a problem.  I think she's kinda been doing the opposite.

Edited July 15, 2016 by shoegal

[ElDosEquis]

14 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

Who on earth ask any women about their weight?

What's next? our age? ;-)

Fuck this shit.

While bullying rarely applies in adult relationships, it is totally applicable here as Beth is Andy's right hand maiden.

I know better than to ask a woman's age in years, they don't seem to be so up tight when you ask them about how many "summers" they have left? ; )

[Midnight Cheese]

Agreed, ZM. 'Dishonest' is Beth saying "I've never had surgery" as puzzled viewers Google and bring up her televised discussions of her foob job and a puzzled (as puzzled as her current rictus permits) Carole stumbles briefly and says, uh oh rilly?   Way to keep it 100, Frisbee Face.

Admitting to an active-phase, recent-episode ED is honest.  Hard to see how that can be spun if your vision isn't blurred by the wrinkles in B's rectum.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Midnight Cheese

[zoeysmom]

23 minutes ago, babykin said:

As someone with an eating disorder, it is forever. It does not leave. EVER.

• You do not ask an anorexic what she weighs.
• You do not comment on their food.

This is just common decency, which B and C both lack. Leave Jules the fuck alone. For Beth to make this about her mother and herself is so narcissistic it's painful. They are basically bullying Jules. 

Few things about food rituals: not ALL people with an ED serve huge spreads of food. Not all people with an ED put cutlery in their food. Everyone has different stuff so Beth can stop pretending she is an expert. And if she is an expert, she would know that what she is doing is vile.

Thank you I was hoping someone with real life experience would contribute it to the conversation.

I believe Carole and Bethenny at some level know they went down the wrong path and instead of using it as a learning experience, they are defending a position that is indefensible and using the show as a basis for violating common sense and decency.

[Yours Truly]

2 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Here is the problem, when one is being deposed you are told, don't guess or estimate.  So if the person is asked how many people were standing at the dock, and they answer I don't know, it is pretty poor form then to come back and say, "how many people do you think were standing at the dock?" If the deponent says five and there were ten, it doesn't make them dishonest or in denial, it makes the asker disingenuous because the person already said they didn't know.  In this case Jules said she had to be weighed with her back turned.  So maybe the 115 pounds is what she weighed the last time she looked.  It doesn't make her in denial if she doesn't know.  It is also contrary to her recovery to get stuck on numbers.   Since these ladies do not spend much more than a few hours together, short of Jules giving them a rundown of what and when she eats everyday at every meal they have no basis for her being in denial and quite frankly Carole was inappropriate to suggest it.  Jules admitted she slipped.  To use terms like the disease is based on dishonesty is harsh.  People lie to themselves everyday it is not necessarily dishonest it is just human nature.   

Hell I know what denial is too just look the definition up in the dictionary but Carole is far from informed enough to make such a declaration about JULES life. Just cause you've been privy to some of her symptoms you now KNOW she's in denial? What's also pissing me off is that they are coming to these conclusions based on the symptoms she's displayed. Symptoms of HAVING ED not by examples of her trying to hide it or distance herself from the problem (hint, hint Beth). There has been no proof that Jules is in denial. What they've seen are symptoms of her disorder play out. How is that denial? When Jules said she see's her therapist but doesn't have anything to say... I sure she had something to say after she threw up... but I think that was her way of telling Carole that even when there haven't been any setbacks she's still religious about following through with the deterents she has set in place so that if SHE DOES have a setback she's already got the therapist on retainer and she doesn't have to fight herself to initiate those steps when the need arises.  They are already in place and the only thing she has to focus on is to voice to her therapist that she's slipped. She doesn't have to struggle with making the call, making the appt, going in. These are things she's already incorporated into her normal routine so that it's not as intimidating. With all that out of the way all her efforts are focused on relaying the details to her therapists. I think that is incredibly progressive. That she's that committed and that accepting of her disorder that she's put a regiment in place that would make her setbacks less of a challenge to tackle since a lot of the logistics are already taken care of. That's what I think Jules was trying to get across to Carole when she said she sees her therapist althought (at the time) she didn't have anything to share with him/her.

[breezy424]

I think what Jules was saying is that she is doing good - good for her and her history.  However, because an ED is an ongoing thing, she does have slip ups.

It's not that different than a person who has a problem with obesity saying they're doing good but sometimes they slip up. 

[ElDosEquis]

2 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

nSpeaking of my favorite Craymona, I can't wait till they go to Miami

I want to see her + Floaty Noodle

 

It's not fair that such a crazy brain lives inside that body.

I draw the line at someone with a bigger noodle than I own.

All kidding aside? I am sure there are guy lining up to ride the ramoaner-coaster - she's got a great body, but so-so hair extensions..........

Edited July 15, 2016 by ElDosEquis

[Yours Truly]

7 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Jules seems to be saying both things, that she's fine and that's she's still has a problem.  Her interactions with Carole have been Jules insisting she's fine, brushing off concern, claiming she's healthy enough to have her period and birth two children, that the bizarre calzone incident wasn't a "food issue" and there wasn't an issue with an anorexic/bulimic taking Adderall, even during the Joanne discussion she was like 'I love my bony arms' and 'I just threw up my food'....seriously she's all over the map, so I don't think that Jules is admitting left right and center that she has a problem.  I think she's kinda been doing the opposite.

Well damn maybe the Calzone thing WASN'T a food thing and it was more of a pain meds and booze thing.

The adderall thing came out of nowhere and no one is anywhere near as informed about that particular diagnosis or Drs. decision to prescribe it her in spite of her ED issues to even claim it as an official part of her ED problem. PULEEZ! I'm guessing the girl needs adderall.

What the hell does admitting a problem look like to you? Cause I'm completely confused.

[Yours Truly]

9 minutes ago, Midnight Cheese said:

Agreed, ZM. 'Dishonest' is Beth saying "I've never had surgery" as puzzled viewers Google and bring up her televised discussions of her foob job and a puzzled (as puzzled as her current rictus permits) stumbles briefly and says, uh oh rilly?   Way to keep it 100, Frisbee Face.

Admitting to an active-phase, recent-episode ED is honest.  Hard to see how that can be spun if your vision isn't blurred by the wrinkles in B's rectum.

See I don't get this? I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. How is someone ADMITTING her disorder and constant struggles in denial? And if it's cause she's not visually demonstrating enough HEALTHY behavior to satisfy those scrutinizing her then WOW...... No really WOW!

[Juneau Gal]

51 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

Carole, no one cares about you so I don't know why you kept desperately trying to interject your opinion. Dorinda was right, she is mean. But alas, I don't think anyone cares.

Yes! I laughed at Carole's complaint "What she directed at you (B) she just as well could have said about me". She was upset that Jules hadn't taken her on; Jules knew that a parasite always gets what the host creature gets, so she just addressed the host. Besides Jules had addressed Carole in regards to her lockjaw, sophisticated, witty remark that all friends talk behind their friends' backs and Carole dismissed her. 

Carole came on the show first season with the stated intent of being part of some sort of sociological experiment of her own making; she was going to serve as an embedded journalist, if you will, and report back to us on this weird reality show phenomenon. She was all above it, don't you know. Well, that is fine one season, but when you come back season after season, you are no longer above it, you ARE it. Her mocking of posters on Twitter of "Well at least I get paid to be on this show" is nonsensical at best, idiotic really. Being paid doesn't make you better than the viewer Carole, it makes you a dance, monkey dance.

Each day I am getting closer and closer to believing Aviva was right about the ghost writer. I think Carole was so anxious to share with everyone the message she sent Lu because it is the only thing she has written on her own in years. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Juneau Gal

[shoegal]

11 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

I think what Jules was saying is that she is doing good - good for her and her history.  However, because an ED is an ongoing thing, she does have slip ups.

It's not that different than a person who has a problem with obesity saying they're doing good but sometimes they slip up. 

I can't help but think of Kim Richards and her 100% pain pill non-relapse relapse.  I dunno, Jules throwing up her food seems like more than just a slip up to me. 

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

2 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

 

This was supposed to be in response to the post about casting someone who can take on Bethenny w/the message Kelly tried to deliver..... They need to find out who Bethenny's BFF was in the racetrack days in NY growing up or in high school/boarding school and cast that person. B's nemesis. Then watch Bethenny's story unravel. Kinda like when Melissa Gorga got cast on NJ, a great foil to Tre's delusions. 

1 hour ago, ladle said:

Am I missing something?  Why would Jules have told Bethenny intimate and potentially damning details about her marriage?  Both Jules and Bethenny seem to agree that this was the case, but WHHYYYYY (*arms raised to heaven in a panoramic shot in the rain*) on earth would Jules ever open up like that to someone she barely knows?  Especially if it's Bethenny?  Does Jules really just have diarrhea of the mouth?  Or is there a dimension to the Beth/Jules relationship that we haven't seen on the show?  Very confusing to me.

I bet she opened  up to B when they had the heart to heart the first time about her ED. 

1 hour ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

 She hasn't changed from who she's been since she became rich.  She's mostly humorless, nasty, vicious, cruel, self-absorbed & horrible.  She is who she is.  The producers know who she is (as we do).  

 

 

35 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

As many here have pointed out, the Bethenny from season 1 thru 3 is not the same Bethenny we see now. She is harder, nastier, more vulgar and so much angrier than ever before. Even had Jules seen/studied every episode from the start of MM thru last season, I don't think it would/could have prepared her for the Bethenny she encountered during filming.

 

Scoobiedoobs & Wirewrap the 3 of us are always on the same page with Bethenny however I could not disagree more that she has changed. Bethenny has ALWAYS been this girl she was just better at weaving her story arc when she was on her way up and did not have the big money yet. Now that she has it, it is FUCK everyone and fuck the consequences. I knew it immediately with the no parents, poor orphan, no advantages in life, scurried her way to the top w/no help blah blah. No one was tasting her samples in the damn grocery store. Her mouth got her air time while the kept throwing shit at the walls to see what would stick.  Her father died in November 09 when they were filming Season 3 and she inherited... my gut says she did, and a quite a lot. That's when the fuck you money came in to play then the spinoffs and the Beam deal. She has always been this person. She has/had parents, advantages (private school, education, Sweet 16 parties on a yacht, VERY influential father and stepfather) etc. Homeless. Lost at sea. Doesn't have parents. Bleeding out of every orifice. Vagina problems. Lies, lies lies.  She was always this girl. Just held it together better for self preservation. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

19 minutes ago, babykin said:

As someone with an eating disorder, it is forever. It does not leave. EVER.

• You do not ask an anorexic what she weighs.
• You do not comment on their food.

This is just common decency, which B and C both lack. Leave Jules the fuck alone. For Beth to make this about her mother and herself is so narcissistic it's painful. They are basically bullying Jules. 

Few things about food rituals: not ALL people with an ED serve huge spreads of food. Not all people with an ED put cutlery in their food. Everyone has different stuff so Beth can stop pretending she is an expert. And if she is an expert, she would know that what she is doing is vile.

Thank you for sharing your experience.  

What made me shudder, cringe & wince was when Bethenny laughed at, mocked & "joked" about Jules' said weight of 115.  Clearly, she just threw that number out there.  Whether she didn't know her actual weight or didn't want to share it or that's the weight she'd like for others to believe she is, we don't know.  But for Bethenny to laugh hysterically, joke & mock Jules for this said weight (and for Carole to join on this) was exceptionally thoughtless & cruel -- as was Carole for asking Jules her weight in the first place.

My theory with Jules' casting is she was a one trick pony.  This was stunt casting.  That is, she was cast absolutely & ONLY because she has ED's.  And I'm certain this was ALL Bethenny's idea.  And I'm sure she could recognize Jules suffered from ED's since Bethenny suffers from the same.

I'm also sure it was always Bethenny's intention (remember, she is now a producer on this thing) to roast Jules on cam for her ED's -- and she ordered Carole to go along with her on this cruelty.  This has all been tightly planned, if maybe not tightly scripted.  I believe absolutely NONE of the crap Carole is spouting in defense of her behavior toward Jules or the realness of her friendship with Bethenny.

As far as Jules' bad marriage?   That was just icing on the cake.  The producers & Bethenny couldn't have known about that when they cast her.  As far as lack of sympathy for Jules?  I don't agree with it.  Yes, maybe she made a mistake to agree to be on the show.  Still doesn't take away the overload of blatant cruelty -- of what we're seeing from Bethenny & Carole toward Jules.  And make no mistake, they're both behaving in a hideously cruel manner.

It still baffles me why Bethenny would mock someone for suffering from something (I strongly suspect) she suffers from herself.  Is she deflecting?  Is she fearful of people knowing she's suffered from ED's for most of her life because it could negatively impact the sales of her brand -- given the name?  OK, we know Bethenny is cruel, thoughtless, self-absorbed & nasty as all hell.  We expect her to be this way.  But her cruelty to Jules has been pretty nuts -- even for an awful shithead like Bethenny.

[Lisin]

Ok gang, it's getting a bit shouty in here. Lets all take a step back, remember everyone is entitled to their own opinions and that they don't have to justify them. We're all here just giving our own thoughts and opinions. Please watch your tone. Thanks. 

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

I dunno, I think I could go toe to toe with Bethenny and Carole.  I don't find Bethenny to be that intimidating.....she's quick on her feet but so am I, I think we could hang.  I certainly would know what I was walking in to, regardless.

Exactly!  I am quick on my feet too and appreciate others who are. As opposed to those who are still searching for a verb - lol.

What I find even more interesting than the show is reading that Bethenny has the power and ability to control pretty much everything and everyone on it. It is totally fascinating. But even if Beth didn't have that apparent power she would be one of my favs on the show. But then I pretty much like them all, including Carole, Ramona and Sonya. And Dordina when she isn't drunk. I used to find LuAnn more tolerable in the earlier years. Desperate Lu is not so much fun. And Jules, marriage problems and eating disorder aside, is just a dud.

Edited July 15, 2016 by UsernameFatigue

[WireWrap]

4 minutes ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

This was supposed to be in response to the post about casting someone who can take on Bethenny w/the message Kelly tried to deliver..... They need to find out who Bethenny's BFF was in the racetrack days in NY growing up or in high school/boarding school and cast that person. B's nemesis. Then watch Bethenny's story unravel. Kinda like when Melissa Gorga got cast on NJ, a great foil to Tre's delusions. 

I bet she opened  up to B when they had the heart to heart the first time about her ED. 

 

Scoobiedoobs & Wirewrap the 3 of us are always on the same page with Bethenny however I could not disagree more that she has changed. Bethenny has ALWAYS been this girl she was just better at weaving her story arc when she was on her way up and did not have the big money yet. Now that she has it, it is FUCK everyone and fuck the consequences. I knew it immediately with the no parents, poor orphan, no advantages in life, scurried her way to the top w/no help blah blah. No one was tasting her samples in the damn grocery store. Her mouth got her air time while the kept throwing shit at the walls to see what would stick.  Her father died in November 09 when they were filming Season 3 and she inherited... my gut says she did, and a quite a lot. That's when the fuck you money came in to play then the spinoffs and the Beam deal. She has always been this person. She has/had parents, advantages (private school, education, Sweet 16 parties on a yacht, VERY influential father and stepfather) etc. Homeless. Lost at sea. Doesn't have parents. Bleeding out of every orifice. Vagina problems. Lies, lies lies.  She was always this girl. Just held it together better for self preservation. 

In the beginning, Bethenny was more self deprecating not this vicious attacker we now see. It is possible that she just controlled herself better back then but now she doesn't even bother to rein in the vicious behavior, so we are seeing who she really is clearer.