The Bachelor Season 21: Spoilers and Speculation

[dom16]

In that 5 to watch article CH talked about how happy he was that this cast was so diverse. And then said that Rachel is someone that all the fans will root for. He may as well have tattooed "next Bachelorette" on her forehead, TBH. Not that I'm complaining!

[thehepburn]

Oh, I totally believe that Elizabeth and Nick just shared a kiss.

On his peen. that is. We all know that oral sex is not real sex, right?

[Bugs Meany]

Am I allowed to say I don't find Rachel pretty/cute?

[Ohwell]

59 minutes ago, Bugs Meany said:

Am I allowed to say I don't find Rachel pretty/cute?

Sure.  Nobody knows where you are. ; )

[Canada]

On ‎2016‎-‎12‎-‎10 at 2:49 PM, Bugs Meany said:

Am I allowed to say I don't find Rachel pretty/cute?

Yes, because she isn't attractive, but be prepared for accusations of racism from the rabid masses.

[Mabinogia]

I'll have to see her in action before I can really decide but I don't see any reason to make Rachel the bachelorette yet. Maybe my expectations were too high because of all the talk about her being perfect to be the first black bachelorette but I must be missing something because she seems pretty average to me. Is it just because she makes it fairly far? Or is there some amazing video out there of her that I just haven't seen yet? Who knows. I just can't wait for Nick! I think he is going to make for a refreshingly relaxed, humorous bachelor.

[chocolatine]

Is being gorgeous a requirement for being The Bachelorette? The two Bachelorettes that I thought were physically beautiful, Deanna and Andi, I ended up hating because of their personalities. From what I can see (only pictures so far), Rachel is not any less attractive than Jillian, Ali, Ashley, Des, or Kaitlyn.

[truthaboutluv]

46 minutes ago, Canada said:

Yes, because she isn't attractive,

That's not a fact though. I'm sure many people may actually think she is beautiful and attractive just like others will not, which to be fair is not that different from many leads. I have personally never been attracted to any of the Bachelor leads until funny enough, Nick.

I wouldn't want to date him but he's the first lead I actually think is legitimately hot. And yet the producers sure did a job selling us that woman were really fighting for Ben Flajnik, Farmer Chris, that weird looking "prince" guy and whoever else. 

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Maybe my expectations were too high because of all the talk about her being perfect to be the first black bachelorette but I must be missing something because she seems pretty average to me. Is it just because she makes it fairly far? Or is there some amazing video out there of her that I just haven't seen yet? 

I don't think it was just about her looks. I think it was her whole background of being an attorney, so she is educated, parents both fairly accomplished in their respective field, so she comes from some pretty impressive pedigree and yes, the fact that she makes it far. And also that yes, some do think she's beautiful, even if others don't see it. 

I personally have no opinion one way or the other because the fact is we haven't seen a single second of any of these people and it is very possible that Rachel may not be very interesting or compelling onscreen, which will not make her great lead material. Or hell she may not want it. I know it seems like everyone on the franchise is looking for more fame but there are still a small few who do one season and leave the franchise behind them. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Canada]

3 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

That's not a fact though. I'm sure many people may actually think she is beautiful and attractive just like others will not, which to be fair is not that different from many leads. I have personally never been attracted to any of the Bachelor leads until funny enough, Nick.

I wouldn't want to date him but he's the first lead I actually think is legitimately hot. And yet the producers sure did a job selling us that woman were really fighting for Ben Flajnik, Farmer Chris, that weird looking "prince" guy and whoever else. 

I don't think it was just about her looks. I think it was her whole background of being an attorney, so she is educated, parents both fairly accomplished in their respective field, so she comes from some pretty impressive pedigree and yes, the fact that she makes it far. And also that yes, some do think she's beautiful, even if others don't see it. 

I personally have no opinion one way or the other because the fact is we haven't seen a single second of any of these people and it is very possible that Rachel may not be very interesting or compelling onscreen, which will make her not great lead material. Or hell she may not want it. I know it seems like everyone on the franchise is looking for more fame but there are still a small few who do one season and leave the franchise behind them. 

Please point out where exactly in my statement I said it was a fact.  I'm pretty sure I was just offering an opinion like everyone else.  Yeesh.

[Mabinogia]

2 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I personally have no opinion one way or the other because the fact is we haven't seen a single second of any of these people

This is where I'm at. Until I see them in action I can't even begin to say who would or wouldn't make a good bachelorette. After all, Andi was a lawyer and she was my absolute least favorite B'ette of all time, to the point I couldn't actually watch her season because she's unbearable to me. (I'm not a huge lawyer fan. Maybe there are too many of them in the least favorite branch of my family, or I've watched too much Law and Order, but I don't think lawyer is a selling point. lol)

I find it amusing that the season hasn't even aired and we are already discussing who will be the next lead. Personally, I would love it if it were none of them. Someone who has never been part of the bachelor nation. Fresh meat!

[truthaboutluv]

3 minutes ago, Canada said:

Please point out where exactly in my statement I said it was a fact.  I'm pretty sure I was just offering an opinion like everyone else.  Yeesh.

I didn't intend for my comment to be confrontational, so sorry if you took it that way. Honestly this is The Bachelor, it's really not deep to me. 

Quote

This is where I'm at. Until I see them in action I can't even begin to say who would or wouldn't make a good bachelorette. After all, Andi was a lawyer and she was my absolute least favorite B'ette of all time, to the point I couldn't actually watch her season because she's unbearable to me.

I found Chris Harrison's comment about her in his 5 to Watch interesting, particularly the part about her personality not always playing well with others in the house. That and the whole, "can she let her guard down" made me think about Marquel from Andi's season where on paper, he was a good choice and he was a good looking guy. But he was kind of boring and not very engaging onscreen. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[ApprenticeFan]

RS has posted yesterday about the tidbits on the upcoming season (link):

Quote

-There will be two 2-on-1 dates this season. Both are filled with some dramatics.

-There was a pool party on Nick’s birthday during filming. One girl got pretty drunk and basically didn’t show for the either the cocktail party or rose ceremony. Or both.

-One girl that gets eliminated during her 2-on-1 date comes back after her elimination in the same episode and goes off on Nick. Heard it’s pretty epic.

-I believe there is a rose ceremony where no one gets eliminated.

-There are at least 4 people who are eliminated before a rose ceremony that I’m aware of as of now. Whether it be through not getting a rose, or Nick sending them home. Definitely know of 4 at this point. Elizabeth Sandoz is one as I mentioned that way back in October when I reported her. She leaves during the “Museum of Broken Relationships” group date in episode 2.

-There’s a group date where teams face off against each other, and the winning team gets extra time with Nick and losing team has to go home. Except the losers were crying a lot, so Nick decided to keep both teams around for extra time.

[ApprenticeFan]

RS also posted his tweet column on his Twitter page about the first episode spoilers:

Quote

1. (SPOILER): Recap of Nick's time on "Bachelor," "Bachelorette," and "Bachelor in Paradise." Footage of him at home w/ family...
2. (SPOILER): Then Nicks gets advice from Sean, Chris, and Ben. Riveting stuff I tell ya'.
3. (1/2) (SPOILER): The 10 women's intro videos you see are (in this order): Rachel, Danielle L., Vanessa, Josephine, Raven...
4. (2/2) (SPOILER): Corinne, Alexis, Danielle M., Taylor, & Liz. Liz's previous history with Nick is a major part of episode 1.
5. (SPOILER) And yes, despite Chris Harrison saying Nick & Liz only "kissed" at Tanner & Jade's wedding, they didn't. Liz admits they had sex.
6. (SPOILER): Three sexually themed limo entrances in a row. One girl says, "Do u know what a girl wearing underwear says? Neither do I."
7. (SPOILER): When Liz greets Nick, he never references their past. But he knows she looks familiar and they talk about their past later.
8. (SPOILER): 3 comments he makes about girls after their greet: "She's cute" (Corinne), "That's a keeper"(Vanessa), "Really cute voice"(Raven)
9. (SPOILER) Not a whole hell of a lot of drama once inside. Corinne definitely is the shit stirrer making out w/ him that other girls see
10. (SPOILER) His talk with Liz is all kinds of awkward. Rachel will be a fan favorite. As will Raven I think. U could tell he was into Vanessa

[MsPH]

I'm glad to hear he thinks Rachel will be a fan favourite, especially considering his earlier insinuations. I think she's very pretty. Not a stunner, but then again not many Bachelorettes have been. JoJo may be the closest, but her personality has a lot to do with it. I definitely don't want Corinne as the next lead, nor do I think she even has a chance, and Raven is already annoying me by selling TeamRaven shirts in her shop.

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, MsPH said:

Raven is already annoying me by selling TeamRaven shirts in her shop.

Oh dear god! Welp, that's me on Team anyone but Raven. Guess I should be glad she's not hiding her wrong reasons flag.

[truthaboutluv]

I would say Corrine is unlikely based on the villain status but then Nick is the lead. Of course that took like two other shows and a "redemption" edit on BIP so yeah I'd say Corrine is unlikely. And yeah I heard about Raven's shilling, much like Robby last season, which she apparently started before the show had even officially released the names of the contestants. But based on Chris Harrison's comments about her in his 5 To Watch, I did feel like they're potentially setting it up to be between her and Rachel for the next lead. 

[gator12]

Does RS have a good gage on who will be a fan favorite. 

The only thing I think could stop Rachel from being the next lead (beside the audience not warming up to her like they didn't to Caila) is her job at a private law firm. She already took a lot of time of and would need to take a lot more to do this show and publicity round. I'm not sure they would be willing to do that and I'm not sure she would be willing to quit her job to do this show again

[gator12]

Wait a minute, RS said in the first episode, Elizabeth said Nick ask for her phone number at Tanner and Jade's wedding but she said no and later admitted that they had sex or whatever. Yet she comes on the show for him? What senses does that make? And where is he a jerk in that scenario? 

[gator12]

Reading that transcript of Nick and Liz convo from RS (reading it through the Bach forum). I'm like girl why are you there? Nick bought up a great point, I for your number you said let leave it that, and you could have easily gotten my number and you had like 9 months to get it. He should have let her go night 1. 

Good for her for having a one night stand and I guess taking the guy role of hitting and quitting it not giving out her phone number or bothering with the guy but why did she have to go on the show? She's just making a fool of herself. 

I can't believe this is real life, she had had to have sign up for Luke

I got to see this for myself b/c I don't believe it.

Edited December 15, 2016 by gator12

[huahaha]

1 hour ago, gator12 said:

Reading that transcript of Nick and Liz convo from RS (reading it through the Bach forum). I'm like girl why are you there? Nick bought up a great point, I for your number you said let leave it that, and you could have easily gotten my number and you had like 9 months to get it. He should have let her go night 1. 

Good for her for having a one night stand and I guess taking the guy role of hitting and quitting it not giving out her phone number or bothering with the guy but why did she have to go on the show? She's just making a fool of herself. 

I can't believe this is real life, she had had to have sign up for Luke

I got to see this for myself b/c I don't believe it.

Yes, she obviously signed up just so she could be part of the bachelor family, maybe go on BiP. She applied when Luke was the lead (doesn't meant she was actually interested), and her story line changed to a much worse one when Nick became the lead.

[thehepburn]

*Gasp* You mean Nick and Liz actually did the nasty and not just shared an innocent kiss? I'm shock, shocked I tell ya!

[truthaboutluv]

I think most people accepted Nick and Liz slept together when US Weekly first broke the story weeks back that they'd hooked up at the wedding. Chris Harrison is the only one who out of nowhere talked about them just kissing, which makes even less sense with them flatly saying what happened in the first episode. And there's no way Chris Harrison doesn't know what's in the episode because he's a producer on the show. 

The whole thing does seem incredibly embarrassing for Liz. I can't help gloating slightly that I said when the story first broke that I found it amusing some just assumed Nick had to be the douche in the situation and Liz wasn't just as interested in having a good old fashioned hookup as he was. And what do you know, he actually asked for her number and she pretty much shut it down and made clear what the situation was which he respected and accepted. 

I guess it is possible that Liz did sign up for Luke (apparently some claim Jade campaigned online for her to be on the show for Luke before they announced Nick as the lead) and when they announced Nick she stupidly told the producers what happened, maybe thinking it might be an issue. And instead the producers saw a jackpot for drama, especially because Nick requested they not bring anyone from his past on and/or former contestants from the franchise. 

I can see them convincing her that considering Nick was attracted to her enough to hook up with her and even ask for her number after, that she had a good chance or at least a better chance than most of the women at being his final choice. And despite not being interested enough to want to give Nick her number months before, she probably saw the beautiful paid wedding, Instagram shilling and other opportunities that came for Jade and her marriage to Tanner and convinced herself of some possibility with Nick.

Except Nick shut that down very fast. I think he kept her to the second episode so they could better clear the air since RS says their conversation on night one gets interrupted. And I believe Nick sends her home during a night group date in the second episode and not at the rose ceremony. 

Edited December 16, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[MsPH]

This whole scenario makes Liz look like an idiot. She had sex with Nick despite thinking he's a sleazebag, rejected him, then supposedly changed her mind after seeing him on BIP and decided to go pursue him on TV? More likely she wanted to be part of the Bachelor family like her bestie and applied thinking Luke was the Bachelor. Then all of a sudden it was her previous one-night-stand instead, but the lure of fame was too strong to pull out at that stage, so she had to come up with that stupid explanation about BIP, which makes little sense considering she could've easily got in touch with him if she really wanted to. I'm glad Nick apparently had a frank discussion about it first thing, since that's what I'm expecting from his season. Real discussions, honesty and cutting through the BS. I guess he didn't get a chance to talk to her again that night, so he gave her a rose, but let her go as soon as the discussion continued on the group date.

[kingshearte]

Quote

-There’s a group date where teams face off against each other, and the winning team gets extra time with Nick and losing team has to go home. Except the losers were crying a lot, so Nick decided to keep both teams around for extra time.

This sounds like a terrible plan. A bachelor could end up sending all his favourites home because they happened to suck at whatever game they were playing. I'd insist on keeping them all, too. If I'm going to reject someone, I want to have some say in the rejecting.

[Canada]

48 minutes ago, kingshearte said:

This sounds like a terrible plan. A bachelor could end up sending all his favourites home because they happened to suck at whatever game they were playing. I'd insist on keeping them all, too. If I'm going to reject someone, I want to have some say in the rejecting.

I don't think they go home, as in where they live.  I think it means that they go back to the mansion, or wherever it is they're living for the show.

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, kingshearte said:

This sounds like a terrible plan. A bachelor could end up sending all his favourites home because they happened to suck at whatever game they were playing. I'd insist on keeping them all, too. If I'm going to reject someone, I want to have some say in the rejecting.

They do this like almost every season. They're not eliminated from the show because that would make the season a lot shorter. They just don't get to spend more time that day with the lead until the next rose ceremony. In fact, that's why all the tears and histrionics when the one group doesn't win is always so eye rolling to me because it only means they miss out on a few hours with the lead. Granted this whole process is so short and like really, really fast speed dating that a few hours feels like months. 

[kingshearte]

Oops. Sorry. Over-interpreting "home." Definitely should have known that's what was meant. I also roll my eyes every time. What can I say? It's been a very long month. Looking forward to the new season for some much needed levity.

[dom16]

RS is doing a short Q&A on Twitter right now. A couple of interesting things he's said is that he "hasn't heard great things" about Nick and Vanessa's relationship post-filming, and that Vanessa wasn't liked in the house and may get a mini-villain edit. I doubt they'll actually give her that edit, since they tend to try and make the F1 look as good as possible unless it's someone like Courtney, who basically made her entire season (and they already have Corinne to fill the villain role), but it would be very fitting if the Most Controversial Bachelor Ever™ managed to find himself a fellow Controversial Fiancée™ who he can remain "engaged" to until he gets eliminated from DWTS. 

[Bugs Meany]

I think Corinne will be the mildest villain in a long time. She and some of the other girls (esp. Lauren, Lacey, Christen, Kristina, Jasmine G., Alexis) have had a mutual Instagram love-fest going for quite some time now. Whereas Olivia didn't go to the post-TWTA parties last season, and only just started to make friends with the girls in New York; Courtney had only Casey S.; and Tierra was never friends with anyone.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Bugs Meany

[CindyBee]

If Nick & Vanessa are already having problems, her edit might go the way of Courtney, especially if they want to make sure Rachel is the beloved one from this season, not the final "couple".  Or they could edit the season like Farmer Chris' where the drama comes from the secondary characters & final outcome is a big snooze fest. 

Looking forward to reading RS episode spoilers on Monday--glad I'm off from work!

[truthaboutluv]

Right on cue I see.  Here's the thing, the odds of any pairing coming from this franchise making it is always low (although the last three are still holding on) and there are some very important factors working against Nick and Vanessa, notably that they live in completely different countries and yes Nick is totally a famewhore like all the others. That said, it's not really much of a leap for RS to say, "I haven't heard great things" regarding the status of their relationship.

It's vague enough that he's not really putting himself out there, as opposed to him saying flat out that JoJo and Jordan were over, prior to the ATFR but it's sufficient enough that if they do break up, like so many other pairings from the franchise have, he can always gloat and crow about how he called it first. As to Vanessa's not being liked by some of the women, a person not being best friends with others does not necessarily make them a bad person or mean they're a villain. But of course in the world of reality television, it doesn't always take much to get that label. We'll see I guess.

[TomGirl]

Just watched an interview with Nick in which he said, "I don't think 'everything happens for a reason'."  That statement alone makes him one of my all-time favorites on this entire franchise.

[thehepburn]

The profundity of that sentence escapes me. Shrug.

[huahaha]

1 hour ago, thehepburn said:

The profundity of that sentence escapes me. Shrug.

It's not profound, but it's the opposite of what basically every other Bachelor contestant says. 

[truthaboutluv]

The statement fits in with other things Nick has said and his general philosophy about life and relationships. I will always remember the moment he became my favorite during Andi's season. It was during their first 1 on 1 date and he said that he didn't really like the idea of soulmates and didn't find it romantic because basically it's like saying you're together because you're supposed to be.

Instead, what he found romantic was the idea that he'd meet someone, they make a choice to be together and even when things got hard, they'd think, "I can leave and find someone else but I don't want to." As someone who's never bought into fairytales myself and have always believed that different people come into your life at different times and even if they weren't your "til death do us part", it doesn't mean the relationship was a failure, I completely agreed with Nick's sentiment. 

[TomGirl]

I agree with it, too.  The whole "soulmates" thing makes my skin crawl, and "everything happens for a reason" is like nails on a chalkboard to me.  It's such BS.

[MsPH]

That conversation with Andi is what piqued my interest as well when it comes to Nick. Before that I didn't really get what Andi saw in him and after that he was my favourite. It's so refreshing to hear some thoughts on this show that have taken some formulating. They could be anything really, as long as they don't come from the Bachelor handbook of clichés. That's my number one wish for this season, some interesting conversations. If anyone can deliver, it's Nick. Thank heavens they didn't pick Luke, because just the thought of him makes me sleepy.

[Mabinogia]

41 minutes ago, MsPH said:

They could be anything really, as long as they don't come from the Bachelor handbook of clichés. That's my number one wish for this season, some interesting conversations. If anyone can deliver, it's Nick.

That is why I was so happy they picked Nick. I think, if anyone can break the monotony of Bachelor cliché's it's Nick. I don't think he actually takes this too seriously, nor does he feel like pretending to take this seriously. I think part of it is being a little older. He's a bit more sure of who he is than most of the younger fame whores who will be whoever TPTB tell them to be to get more internet followers.

[DEL901]

Reality Steve now has his episode by episode spoilers posted.

[ApprenticeFan]

5 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Reality Steve now has his episode by episode spoilers posted.

It appears the boot order you will see as follows:

(SPOILER WARNING: Do not click the spoiler box and will you please stop reading now if you want to be surprised on the Bachelor until its ending)

 

Week 1, Season Premiere: Angela, Briana, Ida Marie, Jasmine B, Lauren, Michelle, Olivia and Susannah

Week 2, Los Angeles: Liz (eliminated in GD), Elizabeth, Hailey, Lacy

Week 3, Los Angeles: Dominique (eliminated in GD), Brittany, Christen

Week 4, Milwaukee: Astrid, Sarah

Week 5, New Orleans: Taylor (eliminated in 2-on-1), Alexis, Jaimi, Josephine

Week 6, St. Thomas: Jasmine G (eliminated in GD), Whitney, Danielle L (both eliminated in 2-on-1); no contestant has eliminated in the RC

Week 7, Bimini: Danielle M (eliminated in 1-on-1), Kristina

Week 8, Hometowns: Corinne

Week 9, Overnight Dates: Rachel

Week 10, Finale: Raven (runner-up), Vanessa (winner)

Edited January 3, 2017 by ApprenticeFan

[Wings]

Liz was clearly a producer pick and probably told her to tell someone she slept with him to create the drama the clearly got.  

I don't pay atttentio to what RS says about relationships after the show wraps.  He has good source info as it films but a lousy track record on survival. 

[TheFinalRose]

11 hours ago, wings707 said:

I don't pay atttentio to what RS says about relationships after the show wraps.  He has good source info as it films but a lousy track record on survival. 

 

I'm still waiting for the JoJo and Jordan break up that supposedly happened before the After the Final Rose aired, according to RS. 

[Wings]

 Corinne makes it to the F4, right?  Ugh. This is going to annoy viewers and the other women.  We are going to hear, if he likes her then I should jut leave because I am nothing like her.  

I am not sure I believe RS when he says the girls don't like Vanessa and she turns out to be the mini evil one (paraphrased).  I suppose that could mean they see that Nick favors her early on, though. 

[MsPH]

Judging by SM, it seems as though Vanessa was closest to Danielle M., while Rachel, Raven and Corinne were close with each other. So I think there were some cliques going on. If Vanessa didn't like Nick keeping Corinne around even over her friend Danielle, then that probably caused some tension with the others.

[DEL901]

I think he keeps Corinne around so long just to get to the home town date and meet the nanny! :)

[Lamb18]

Maybe he will propose to the nanny.

[ByTor]

Apparently Jasmine & Corinne became great friends.  Jasmine says she does not have a bad thing to say about her.  As annoying as I'm finding Corinne's portrayal, I kind of like that at least someone's saying she's nothing like she appears to be.

http://www.prodancecheer.com/?p=27157

Edited January 17, 2017 by ByTor

[backformore]

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 9:26 AM, wings707 said:

 Corinne makes it to the F4, right?  Ugh. This is going to annoy viewers and the other women.  We are going to hear, if he likes her then I should jut leave because I am nothing like her.  

Well, it could be that the producers really wanted a hometown visit with a woman who seems to be a flake and a sleaze, but says she runs a multi-million dollar corporation.  And come on!  she calls her housekeeper her NANNY!  How could they NOT keep her around for hometown visits?

From Jasmine's interview linked above, it seems that Corrine hosts "watch parties"  for the show.   Imagine her friends and family gathering around to see her whore herself out like that!  

Edited January 18, 2017 by backformore
subject/verb agreement

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

Apparently Jasmine & Corinne became great friends.  Jasmine says she does not have a bad thing to say about her.  As annoying as I'm finding Corinne's portrayal, I kind of like that at least someone's saying she's nothing like she appears to be.

http://www.prodancecheer.com/?p=27157

Actually, post-show most of the women seem to get along just fine with Corinne. A number of them were all together for New Year's Eve in Florida - Corinne, Rachel, Raven, etc. There has been a lot of social media gushing and love notes to each other on Instagram. 

Edited January 17, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[hnygrl]

Is it just me, or do most of these women seem to not really be that into Nick?

I get the feeling a lot of them are still there because the powers that be promised them a trip to paradise if they stayed.

As much as I'm liking this season (and I am, Nick is such a slut!) I just think these women are too damn young.

Wonder how Vanessa is taking all the slutty sluttiness of her "Fiance?" And it's gonna get worse...