S07.E10: Choose Your Battles

[ReadMeLattice]

@shelley1005, I have PTSD from that text and he didn't even send it to me, lol.

[SPLAIN]

1 minute ago, Lm2162 said:

@shelley1005, I have PTSD from that text and he didn't even send it to me, lol.

LOL thanks for the laugh. This thread needs it. 

LM2162, I only watched the episode once. Did Leah mention why her girls needed a sitter? Leah was looking rough when she met up with Cory.

[Birdee]

7 minutes ago, SPLAIN said:

LOL thanks for the laugh. This thread needs it. 

LM2162, I only watched the episode once. Did Leah mention why her girls needed a sitter? Leah was looking rough when she met up with Cory.

I don't think she ever said--not even in a voice over. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say she really doesn't care who has them as long as it's not Corey or his family. Her family and friends already know what a P.O.S. mother she is and don't care. Corey Tyler and his danged ol' nosy family might find out more than she wants them to know if they girlses are with them. 

[Mya Stone]

Stop arguing with every point made in every post. If this continues, I will lock the thread. In the motivational words of Babs Evans, here's some guidance to stop: 

 

[ReadMeLattice]

@SPLAIN, I don't think she mentioned it but I assume she was with TR. I agree that she's likely unconcerned about it unless Corey is the one watching them. 

[shelley1234]

I always assumed because Leah already seemed so upset when she got the call....that the scene was a reshoot.  

Why someone else is watching her children when it is her time she fought so hard for???  I just assumed that is because she is Leah and wants to win the battle, but will shove those kids off to anyone else....other than Corey.  

[lidarose9]

To me, it has looked like Leah was already upset about something unrelated when a lot of these scenes have been filmed, and we've been led to think she's upset about (x) when in fact, she was already upset about (y). In some she is just babbling incoherently, like that pathetic conversation with Dawn a few weeks ago. 

Just like that vacuuming, I also didn't buy for a minute that shot of her "checking over" the kids' homework. She can't focus her eyes. She was sitting there with her eyes boggling flipping papers. It wouldn't surprise me if a close-up revealed that it was upside down. There's been a lot of bamboozling in her storyline this season. 

[lidarose9]

This is my theory. Because Leah is either 1. so stoned or 2. so inarticulate that she can't speak properly, the producers go over these conversations in advance with her so she can know what she will say. Like a rehearsal. Then by the time they actually film the conversation 3.5 minutes later, she's forgotten, so she fumbles around and it comes out fragmented and nonsensical. Or she gets performance anxiety and blows it. 

[jacksgirl]

lidarose,  I agree. Leah looked on the verge of tears before the phone call and the visit from annoying Chastity.  Loved her making the beds and fluffing pillows in the scene. I know I always plug in my phone for the 5 to 10 minutes when I make my kids' beds. What a great FU Internet moment. Guess it's her turn to get a redemption arc.

[lezlers]

3 hours ago, Lexie said:

Yeah chelsea is also being that same kind of bitch.   Now that she has pushed javi into isaacs life as a father figure it is Isaac who will suffer because they are getting divorced.   Chelsea is playing the exact same game with Aubree.   

Mtv has nothing else that makes Adam look like a bad father because he isn't even allowed to see Aubree unsupervised.  Which is just the way Chelsea wants it.  now that she picked a douche for her kids father and set it up that he can only see the kid at his parents house (which he deserved at the time) she wants to cry that he's a douche and never around.   She can't even get her story straight about what exactly she did or said about the dance, it's so obvious.  

He's not allowed because of CHELSEA?  Do you know how easy it is to get unsupervised visits with your children?  So long as you're not a total, 100% grade-a fuck up, it's pretty damn easy.  You EARN supervised visits, that's not the jumping off point in visitation orders.  It's really not difficult to get that requirement taken off, as well.  If you're a semi-functional, responsible human being, unsupervised visits are not difficult to obtain.

Also, Chelsea could've requested Adam's visits be supervised at a facility, remember?  She had that choice.  But she said no, even though Adam's useless parents refuse to actually supervise his visitation (gee, I wonder why Adam is such a fuck up) because she felt bad.  So...she actually did him a FAVOR there.   But yeah, Adam being a shitty dad is totally Chelsea's fault.  

Finally, even though Adam's "supervised" visits are with his parents, he's still not even THERE more often than not!  It's been pretty well documented that Adam is very rarely there for his visits.  Yet Chelsea still sends Aubree.  It would be REALLY easy for her to just go to court, show that he's not even there and get his visits reduced.  But she doesn't.  Yup.  She's totally unreasonable and is just trying to screw him over at every turn. 

[lezlers]

Sorry, didn't see the demand to stop arguing on the thread when I posted my reply.

[blubld43]

Quote

Was Leah doing a drug run? Is that why her bitch cousin was babysitting the kids? Leah has nothing else going on. Why does she need a sitter?

I was wondering the same thing myself.  This little bitch and her family need to all attend some co-parenting therapy and hear some truths from a neutral person.  Although that hasn't worked so well with Dr. Tsao.

Quote

I know I always plug in my phone for the 5 to 10 minutes when I make my kids' beds.

Waiting for the text back to confirm said drug run....I do not believe at all that suddenly Leah has pulled herself together, something's fishy in W Virginia.  I think she's likely on opiates, she just has that suddenly-always-in-a-good-mood vibe going on.

[ghoulina]

On 5/27/2016 at 3:57 PM, Lemons said:

Adam brought his daughters to his silly competition, those are the type of activities that he is probably comfortable with.  Chelsea needs to accept that. 

Justy me, personally, but I've never thought of parenting as something where I only do the things *I* feel comfortable doing. 

 

On 5/28/2016 at 10:59 AM, Lexie said:

Mtv has nothing else that makes Adam look like a bad father because he isn't even allowed to see Aubree unsupervised.  Which is just the way Chelsea wants it.  now that she picked a douche for her kids father and set it up that he can only see the kid at his parents house (which he deserved at the time) she wants to cry that he's a douche and never around

A good parent will let nothing stand in the way of seeing their child. If Adumb really cared, it wouldn't matter if he was only allowed supervised visitation at his parents' home. He would be their every time, barring illness or work he cannot get out of. He'd tailor his work schedule around her, actually, if he could. Adumb has consistently shown that he only shows up when it's convenient for him or makes him look good. Of course Chelsea is pissed about it; it hurts her daughter.

[poopchute]

46 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Justy me, personally, but I've never thought of parenting as something where I only do the things *I* feel comfortable doing. 

 

Ha, great point.  I feel comfortable going to the bar for happy hour and then staying until last call.  Is that a good activity for a child? No.  Adam is a shitbag.

[Trace]

While I realize Chelsea's parents got a divorce?  Her dad's a freaking dentist and I am quite sure she never suffered anything close to what a lot of children from broken homes did.  I clearly remember her calling her dad AT WORK, fully expecting him to drop everything and come rushing home to comfort her (because Adumb was being a prick). I was completely taken aback at how clueless and spoiled she was! Like her father could leave a patient in the chair and leave!

Edited May 29, 2016 by Trace

[Chicken Wing]

I really should have become a dentist. Apparently it's the least time-consuming profession in the world, allowing you to devote countless hours to getting into Twitter fights with teen bots and to go running whenever a whiny teenager calls with her latest problem. Randalicious got it made in the shade.

[WhosThatGirl]

40 minutes ago, Trace said:

While I realize Chelsea's parents got a divorce?  Her dad's a freaking dentist and I am quite sure she never suffered anything close to what a lot of children from broken homes did.  I clearly remember her calling her dad AT WORK, fully expecting him to drop everything and come rushing home to comfort her (because Adumb was being a prick). I was completely taken aback at how clueless and spoiled she was! Like her father could leave a patient in the chair and leave!

Well, while yes it was selfish that was when she got the lovely text from Adam when he called her a stretch marked bitch and their child a mistake and was telling her to take away Aubree's last name being his. And yes, she was being a selfish little brat but she was also a 16 year old girl. I might have done the same thing had something like that happened to me when I was 16 and the father of my child was texting me awful things.  I think she has grown up since then. Adam has not. 

Edited May 29, 2016 by WhosThatGirl
I needed to add more.

[ClassyCourtHeels]

On 5/28/2016 at 9:30 AM, shelley1005 said:

Yep.  Adam is responsible for his own behavior.  And we've seen how much Adam can chirp on social media when he thinks Chelsea is doing him dirty...and he's been pretty quiet.  Him not responding and not going to her dance is on him...but I am sure for the Adam apologists it's still Chelsea's fault.  

I actually had a lot of respect for Chelsea when Aubree wanted to ask if both her dads could go to the dance...and even though Chelsea realized it would be awkward for Cole (and probably for Adam too), she supported her because that is what Aubree wanted.  It was a moot point because like usual...Adam didn't show.  And let's be real....what DOES Adam show up for???

I'd honestly like to know WTF Adam defenders think Chelsea should have said in this situation. 

 

They seem to think Chelsea just actively said Adam may or may not be there. But I would bet Aubs actively ASKED Chelsea about her sperm donors attendance at the dance. Since Adam can't be bothered to give a simple yes or no, Chelsea has to cover for him by keeping the answer open ended....ie your sperm donor may be able to go, but he might not either so don't be too upset when he doesn't show. At least Cole can take you and maybe Adam will show. 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

1 hour ago, Chicken Wing said:

I really should have become a dentist. Apparently it's the least time-consuming profession in the world, allowing you to devote countless hours to getting into Twitter fights with teen bots and to go running whenever a whiny teenager calls with her latest problem. Randalicious got it made in the shade.

It was my plan but.....organic chemistry, yo. The dental schools require it. It was back to Liberal Arts for me.

On May 28, 2016 at 2:22 PM, lidarose9 said:

To me, it has looked like Leah was already upset about something unrelated when a lot of these scenes have been filmed, and we've been led to think she's upset about (x) when in fact, she was already upset about (y). In some she is just babbling incoherently, like that pathetic conversation with Dawn a few weeks ago. 

Just like that vacuuming, I also didn't buy for a minute that shot of her "checking over" the kids' homework. She can't focus her eyes. She was sitting there with her eyes boggling flipping papers. It wouldn't surprise me if a close-up revealed that it was upside down. There's been a lot of bamboozling in her storyline this season. 

I think she was upset because the producers made her make those beds. Household chores make Princess Leah sad.

[Scarlett45]

I finally got a chance to watch the episode. Leah was never the  most articulate person to breathe air, however its clear to me there is something WRONG with her. Her speech patterns are manic, she's very defensive yet flat at the same time.....it seems as if something is not there. I am not making light of depression or any other mental health issue she may have, but that cannot be addressed until she acknowledges she has a problem and stops trying to blame Corey for wanting his daughters to be well cared for. Backpack gate? PLEASE. I cannot believe that warranted a phone call. 

I am glad Aubrey had fun at the dance. The main goal of things like that is for Aubrey to have a good time, Aubrey did not choose her father and shouldn't be made to feel poorly for wanting him around. I know that Chelsea loves her daughter and is doing what she thinks is best, but IMO Aubrey is going to internalize her Mom's attitude towards Aubrey's affection for Adam. More articulately Aubrey may feel that her Mom does not "like" that she wants her Dad around or she may think she is being disloyal to her Mom for wanting Adam in her life. Children are far more emotionally perceptive than people tend to give them credit for. Aubrey can adore both Cole AND Adam, its not an either or situation. 

 

Kailyn acts as if she hates Javi's guts. I speak with more warmth to the people that give me my beverages at Starbucks than she is speaking to Javi lately. Its as if she resents him for existing. Assuming there is another season of Teen Mom 2 seeing their divorce in action should be interesting. 

Edited May 30, 2016 by Scarlett45

[iheartla]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Assuming there is another season of Teen Mom 2 seeing their divorce in action should be interesting. 

I'm fairly certain they are filming a new season. It should be interesting indeed, or raise my blood pressure. Kai's attitude has essences of Farrah.

[FaithsMum]

I loathe Jenelle with the heat of a thousand suns but, as an addict and a nurse, I think the US laws regarding narcotics are ridiculous and cause unnecessary suffering. IF Jenelle truly is suffering from anxiety then she should be treated as anyone else would because to not do so is cruel and goes against everything, as medical professionals, we are taught.

I have epilepsy and osteoporosis as a result of anorexia which aren't the best combination since I frequently break bones; I almost always have a broken bone or two but I am prescribed analgesics regardless of my addiction because pain is pain. When I was well enough to work, prior to my hospitalisation, I worked on A+E where addicts were a daily occurrence. Even if we were almost certain they wanted a prescription to get high on and their "injury" was invented, we were told to believe them and to give them pain relief since it is far worse to leave someone who is truly suffering (addict or not) in pain than it is to give an addict a weeks supply of a weak opiod.

As much as it pains me to say it, Jenelle has a point about the benzos and her addiction to heroin. They're not the same. There is this misconception that addicts will take whatever drug, anytime and for many of us that isn't true. I am a picky addict; I abused opiods since they're my drugs of choice. I have had brief periods of abusing (pharmaceutical) stimulants to lose weight but I had neither a physical tolerance or a psychological addiction to them; I used them purely when I hit a wall in weight loss and in that respect are unrelated to my drug addiction - they're an "anorexia thing" rather than a "drug thing" because I hate stimulants and I wouldn't touch them otherwise. I have smoked weed maybe three times in my life back when I was a teenager. I take benzos as a recovery drug for my epilepsy and a low dose of diazepam PRN when my anxiety is bad and I have never abused either because I hate them too and could quite happily never have to take either the midazolam or diazepam again for the rest of my life.

I have no idea which camp Jenelle falls into, she may be the type of addict who will take whatever is available, but just because a drug is addictive doesn't necessarily mean an addict will become addicted to it since it's untrue that all addicts are non discrimatory.

[ReadMeLattice]

@ghoulinaGHOULINAGHOULINAGHOULIN

@FaithsMum, thank you for sharing that, I 100% agree. The way the medical system is run, especially with regards to mental health, is so screwed up. Especially since they hand out dangerous medications with horrible side effects like candy and even force them nonconsensually on people in institutions, as long as they are considered to "control" the person's issues (or what the doctor perceives as their issues after an often too-short "examination" period). But if the meds might be addictive, oh no! None for you. *eyeroll*

My husband is paralyzed. Some people have sensation all over despite paralysis; others don't. He does. His foot was injured once and he was nearly sobbing in pain for almost an hour before the hospital would give him pain meds because they didn't believe he could feel pain in his legs/feet and thought he was just trying to get a fix. He also had to remind them of the reality of autonomic dysreflexia. They eventually did give him the pain meds, but only after an excruciating ordeal. It was horrible. The rampant obsession with addiction we have in this country is really sort of out of hand. We don't want to help people with the underlying problems that actually cause addiction, just punish them when they have one. 

@ghoulina, that "reply" to you wasn't deliberate. I don't know why it did that and I tried in vain to delete it but couldn't. Sorry!

[Trace]

16 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Well, while yes it was selfish that was when she got the lovely text from Adam when he called her a stretch marked bitch and their child a mistake and was telling her to take away Aubree's last name being his. And yes, she was being a selfish little brat but she was also a 16 year old girl. I might have done the same thing had something like that happened to me when I was 16 and the father of my child was texting me awful things.  I think she has grown up since then. Adam has not. 

Even at 16 years of age, I made sure I never got knocked up in high school.  And when I was 16, my alcoholic father was 3 years dead, having died at the age of 45.  Had my father been alive?  Calling him at work, no matter what some snot-nosed prick said to me, would never have entered my mind.  I realize in the past 6 or so years Chelsea has grown, like most people, beyond being a silly teenager.  The main thing she has done is get over the silly fantasy about Adam being the love of her life.  But she is still somewhat immature and that baby voice she uses is not cute - it's grating.  I think she has done better than any of the other 16 and Pregnant girls because of the privileged upbringing she had.  I like her, but she annoys the holy fuck out of me at times. So saying she is better than Janelle, Leah or Kailynn really isn't saying that much.

[ReadMeLattice]

@Tatum, unfortunately the snot nosed prick was the father of the child she'd just had, and she was likely hormonal and deeply depressed. And what he said to her was abusive and traumatizing. I give her a pass on that. 

That said, Chelsea would maybe be marginally better than Leah/Kailyn without their background, but I don't think it's possible to say either way. She's been so, so privileged compared to the others in terms of family, support, and resources that it's really barely comparable. Chelsea's parents were paying her rent at incredibly nice apartments and giving her free childcare while Kailyn was living in the basement of her baby daddy's family after he dumped her with no parents of her own to speak of and no car, trying to get herself to school, and working, and Leah was bouncing from trailer to trailer and had Mama Dawn for a parent and no dad. It's so hard to imagine Chelsea in either situation. 

Edited May 30, 2016 by Lm2162

[shoovenbooty]

I don't know if it's been brought up already, but I kind of attributed the recent lack of Ali's parents having her use the wheelchair to MTV showing scenes out of order, as usual. The wheelchair may still have been broken when these other episodes were taped, and fixed by the time they were done filming this season, so they threw the scene into an earlier episode. I wouldn't put it past MTV to show Ali getting the wheelchair back early on, then showing all these episodes with her not using it, to stir up the social media drama. It drives me crazy when they show a scene, then show the "Later that day..." caption at the bottom of the screen, and everyone is wearing different clothes/makeup/hairstyles than they were "earlier that day". They do it all.the.time. Annoying!

Not that I'm defending either Leah or Corey, because I think both of them have handled the entire wheelchair situation poorly. I'm just saying that I think MTV may be screwing with the timelines here.

Edited May 30, 2016 by shoovenbooty
spelling

[ReadMeLattice]

@Spiderella2, I'd say that may be true but Leah admits it stays at school...which means that she uses it at neither Corey nor Leah's house. 

[blubld43]

Quote

IF Jenelle truly is suffering from anxiety then she should be treated as anyone else would because to not do so is cruel and goes against everything, as medical professionals, we are taught.

I agree completely.  Whatever was truly going on with her, she was clearly suffering. People don't realize just how much people truly suffer with depression and anxiety;  I'm not inclined to believe Jenelle as a rule, but I don't think she was faking.

Edited May 30, 2016 by blubld43

[shelley1234]

Interesting because I totally saw Jenelle's behavior and symptoms as faking and drug seeking behavior.  The long exhaustive list...how her symptoms seem to all but go away and then be so severe that she couldn't seem to deal with anything.  The social media reports that the evening after she is in such pain she can't move...she is out with Dave and bowling like she doesn't have a care in the world.  

[ReadMeLattice]

@shelley1005, I hate hate hate to possibly defend Jenelle, but that's often what things like chronic pain, hormonal issues, and depression/mental illness look like...mood swings, trying to cover up your anxiety by 'having fun,' symptoms that come and go, things that are intangible and hard to explain...it's part of why chronic pain issues and mental health problems are so misunderstood. I also don't know why she wouldn't just use other drugs or buy them on the black market (quite an easy thing to do, and she's got a lot of money) if that's all she wanted...She has a dark past/present and lots of friends who use drugs (Tori, all her exes) who could hook her up if she truly wasn't suffering.

Also, even if she's an addict, it doesn't mean she ISN'T severely depressed, suffering, or anxious. Actually, they often go hand in hand...and being addicted to something doesn't mean you have no real medical problems or that every time you seek medication, it's because of an addiction.

[shelley1234]

14 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

@shelley1005, I hate hate hate to possibly defend Jenelle, but that's often what things like chronic pain, hormonal issues, and depression/mental illness look like...mood swings, trying to cover up your anxiety by 'having fun,' symptoms that come and go, things that are intangible and hard to explain...it's part of why chronic pain issues and mental health problems are so misunderstood. I also don't know why she wouldn't just use other drugs or buy them on the black market (quite an easy thing to do, and she's got a lot of money) if that's all she wanted...She has a dark past/present and lots of friends who use drugs (Tori, all her exes) who could hook her up if she truly wasn't suffering.

Also, even if she's an addict, it doesn't mean she ISN'T severely depressed, suffering, or anxious. Actually, they often go hand in hand...and being addicted to something doesn't mean you have no real medical problems or that every time you seek medication, it's because of an addiction.

That's fine that you see it that way.  I don't.  And it's not that I don't understand mental health, depression or chronic pain.  I just see drug seeking behaviors.  When I was working in sub abuse treatment in the corrections field...this is often what it looked like.  

And Jenelle can't as easily just get drugs on the black market because of her history, because she had legal charges pending at the time and because she is on television.  It makes it so that if she wants to use...she needs to get prescribed the meds.  That is what I see her doing.   

[ReadMeLattice]

@shelley1005, and most of those people are suffering from mental health issues--people with mental health problems are disproportionately incarcerated, justly or not. It's hard to separate the two. It's a complicated issue, not just one or the other. We also know she has been diagnosed with severe mental health problems that are likely going untreated. Just saying that drug abuse doesn't mean one doesn't have mental health problems as well; often they're just a symptom of the larger problem. If you're seriously addicted, you wouldn't be going out and having 'fun' then either without access to your drug of choice, you'd be having withdrawals and in a lot of pain, psychological and physical. Then again, I have a very different view because I am a therapist & psychology professor, so I have pretty much the opposite view of someone working in corrections. I see a very different side of people's issues. It's just different entirely.

That said, I find it hard to believe anything with Jenelle except that she's a scary liar. I don't think it's even for drug abuse reasons, I just think she's a scary attention seeker, for whatever reason. She probably did all of it just to get on 'The Doctors.' MTV may even have told her to say that stuff so she could be on. I don't trust her, I mean seriously, ever, so I'm not all that interested in defending anything she does personally. But that doesn't mean the pharmaceutical industry/the way we go about treating mental health problems isn't extremely fucked up and untrustworthy itself.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Lm2162

[shelley1234]

I never said that because someone is an addict that they don't have mental health problems.  Saying I believe she is med seeking has nothing to do with the fact that most addicts have comorbid mental health disorders.  

[FaithsMum]

1 hour ago, blubld43 said:

I agree completely.  Whatever was truly going on with her, she was clearly suffering. People don't realize just how much people truly suffer with depression and anxiety;  I'm not inclined to believe Jenelle as a rule, but I don't think she was faking.

I don't think she was faking either - anxiety is often irrational and it's often perceived as someone simply being a drama queen. Of course, it doesn't help because Jenelle IS dramatic. Generally speaking IME if she had merely wanted drugs, she'd have been way more calculated about it and less all over the place; she'd have picked a couple of symptoms and stuck to them. Addicts who want drugs and have invented symptoms generally don't want tests done because MRI's, blood work etc can catch them out yet Jenelle was desperate for the results of the MRI and I don't think that desperation was fake.

Do I think there's anything physically wrong with Jenelle? No. But I think she thinks there is. I fully believe Jenelle suffers with anxiety and as someone else in that position (although mine is treated since we don't punish addicts for the rest of their lives here) and though I loathe her, I can't help feel bad for her because she is suffering, and that is cruel.

If/when she eventually ends up back on heroin because she's self medicating, I am going to wonder if her anxiety had been treated, would she be in that position now?

Edited May 30, 2016 by FaithsMum

[Tatum]

am

6 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

@Tatum, unfortunately the snot nosed prick was the father of the child she'd just had, and she was likely hormonal and deeply depressed. And what he said to her was abusive and traumatizing. I give her a pass on that.  

Huh? Don't think you meant to tag me.

[DangerousMinds]

Mostly agree with you, BUT Jenelle specifically stated she did not think her symptoms were due to anxiety. FWIW, my own psychiatrist told me that most deaths from heroin involve both benzos and opiates, not opiates alone. 

[FaithsMum]

3 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Mostly agree with you, BUT Jenelle specifically stated she did not think her symptoms were due to anxiety. FWIW, my own psychiatrist told me that most deaths from heroin involve both benzos and opiates, not opiates alone. 

Recognising anxiety for what it is, is a process and requires some self analysis which I suspect Jenelle isn't capable of otherwise she'd be a better person, lol.

I have suffered from anxiety since my teens; it is treated and has been for eight years but it's severity is directly linked to the severity of my anorexia at that time. Most of mine is related to my calorie consumption but I do have other issues. Like, at weekend I had a home visit from hospital and went to stay at my best friends. At 2am, my best friend had to call FaithsDad to come get me because I was having a meltdown since I wanted to go home. I was fine until I wasn't. It's completely irrational; it's my best friend and I am comfortable there and I don't feel unsafe but I NEED to go home because I have a hard time being away from home/hospital if it's overnight. Ten years ago though, I wouldn't have recognised that as being part of my anxiety disorder - I used to just put it down to being a homebody .

Plus it's very difficult to recognise that something is caused by your anxiety when you're actually in it. It takes way more self awareness than Jenelle has to recognise that this is anxiety and you're being irrational. It doesn't help either that Jenelle doesn't have normal, well adjusted people around her, she has sycophants and Babs... Uncle Dave was basically indulging her and Babs is over it. I don't blame either of them for those reactions but they're unproductive.

[DangerousMinds]

7 hours ago, FaithsMum said:

Recognising anxiety for what it is, is a process and requires some self analysis which I suspect Jenelle isn't capable of otherwise she'd be a better person, lol.

I have suffered from anxiety since my teens; it is treated and has been for eight years but it's severity is directly linked to the severity of my anorexia at that time. Most of mine is related to my calorie consumption but I do have other issues. Like, at weekend I had a home visit from hospital and went to stay at my best friends. At 2am, my best friend had to call FaithsDad to come get me because I was having a meltdown since I wanted to go home. I was fine until I wasn't. It's completely irrational; it's my best friend and I am comfortable there and I don't feel unsafe but I NEED to go home because I have a hard time being away from home/hospital if it's overnight. Ten years ago though, I wouldn't have recognised that as being part of my anxiety disorder - I used to just put it down to being a homebody .

Plus it's very difficult to recognise that something is caused by your anxiety when you're actually in it. It takes way more self awareness than Jenelle has to recognise that this is anxiety and you're being irrational. It doesn't help either that Jenelle doesn't have normal, well adjusted people around her, she has sycophants and Babs... Uncle Dave was basically indulging her and Babs is over it. I don't blame either of them for those reactions but they're unproductive.

Some of Jenelle's "symptoms" seem like the result of years of heavy pot smoking. If she is still smoking pot, it's not appropriate for her to be taking benzos as well. Even if not, there are medications that treat anxiety that are not addictive. Regardless, no out of state physician is going to prescribe a known drug abuser with benzos. She would need to be treated by a psychiatrist local to her that could follow her closely.

[lovesnark]

24 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Some of Jenelle's "symptoms" seem like the result of years of heavy pot smoking. If she is still smoking pot, it's not appropriate for her to be taking benzos as well. Even if not, there are medications that treat anxiety that are not addictive. Regardless, no out of state physician is going to prescribe a known drug abuser with benzos. She would need to be treated by a psychiatrist local to her that could follow her closely.

This x1000. If she truly is racked with anxiety, she needs to be seeing a therapist of some sort. Of course, she won't do that because a doctor of any kind would tell her to do everything in her power to stop creating situations that induce anxiety. Like having kids you don't want, hopping from boyfriend to boyfriend, using your kids to keep the drama going in your life, fighting with everyone, etc. Jenelle creates anxiety riddled situations because she's miserable if she's not making someone else's life miserable.

[lidarose9]

I used to have a really stressful job. It pushed me to find ways to take care of my mental health. I did everything I could to take care of myself in that environment. I was in counseling. I did my best to focus on eating well and getting regular exercise of some kind. I took meditation classes and started meditating. I used to come home and take really really hot baths which just baked the stress out of my body. I got massage when I could. I consciously identified things that relaxed me and soothed me and tried to build more of that into my life. I used to listen to Enya on my commute home to let go of the day's stress. I planned really fun vacations so I always had something to look forward to. I ended a couple friendships that were just not healthy. I worked hard to keep sane. 

There are so many things that a person can do to reduce the anxiety in their lives besides take a xanax. Yet for these girls, that is the first thing they go for. It never occurred to me to ask my doctor for a drug to help me with my stressful life. I felt that was my own responsibility. 

I have a good friend who started having generalized anxiety a few years ago. So now he takes a variety of drugs for it. Sometimes they help, other times not so much. Other than that, he does nothing else. I have offered many times to go with him to a meditation class or recommend a counselor -- he has zero interest, so for the sake of the friendship I keep my mouth shut. But I wish he would at least try some things. 

If Jenelle really truly does have anxiety disorder, she needs to be under a doctor's care, following a treatment plan, like a normal responsible human with a health problem. Taking steps in her life to reduce the stress. Isn't she supposed to be bi-polar? What about those drugs? What about that doctor? Why is she not in counseling working through all these issues with her mother not loving her enough? To me it looks like classic drug-seeking behavior couple with extreme narcissistic drama queen disorder. 

In the scene with Babs, Jenelle immediately became very defensive about drugs, which leads me to suspect she has started using again and wants a legit prescription for something she can blame a dirty pee test on, if one is called for (which is very likely with her). She learned that trick from Leah. 

I think Leah was supposed to work in that comment about how before she went to "therapy" she would have reacted totally differently to Backpackgate, and how much better she is now. That line was fed to her and that scene was meant to show us the value of going to "therapy" for your drug prob... oh, i mean emotional problems. 

Edited June 2, 2016 by lidarose9

[ghoulina]

I agree that it would be beneficial for Jenelle to try something other than/in addition to medication. If anything, she needs some good coping mechanisms. You can't even walk in and compliment her kid's haircut without getting your head bit off. 

[lovesnark]

I can't see Jenelle ever doing anything to work through her 'anxiety'. It requires effort. Years ago, a couple we'd been friends with for years decided to go to marriage counseling because they were arguing all the time about everything. After two sessions, the husband quit going and told my husband that he thought the counselor was going to tell his wife that it was all her fault and if she'd stop bitching at him, their marriage would be great. The minute the counselor wanted the husband to be accountable for his role in the dysfunction, he was done. I can totally see Jenelle having the same attitude. It's everyone else's fault and if they'd just leeeeeaaave her aloooonnnne and give her a lifetime supply of xanax everything would be fine.

[ReadMeLattice]

She was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, so I trust that clinician's diagnosis. It seems accurate, but I don't know her, so won't speculate about any personality disorders, as those are highly complex and require quite a bit of prolonged observation not on television. She does have quite a bit of childhood trauma to contend with. However much I dislike her, her suffering, both externally and self-inflicted, is palpable. It's why I don't find her particularly fun to complain about, though I find her personally extremely  distasteful. 

She doesn't appear to be seeking any therapy, nor do those around her encourage it. I doubt she ever will. It's one of the many things that makes this show immoral. If MTV truly had personal relationships with these girls as they constantly claim to, they would push Jenelle in particular to seek extensive help. Instead, I assume they encourage the opposite so that she provides more on camera drama. 

Edited June 2, 2016 by Lm2162

[lovesnark]

I'm not sure if it was this season or last season but, Barb mentioned Jenelle having bipolar disorder and Jenelle went into one of her usual tirades. Screaming at Barb that she was stupid and that she has anxiety disorder, not bipolar, DUDE! Personally, I think Jenelle suffers from a terminal case of raging The World Revolves Around Me And Fuck Everyone Else Bitchitis.

[ReadMeLattice]

@lovesnark, right, but that doesn't take away the doctor's diagnosis. She likely has both. High levels of comorbidity. 

[shelley1234]

I also think that just because someone got a diagnosis put on their chart once....doesn't mean it is still accurate or honestly, ever was.  If you have 10 clinicians meet with a person and give a diagnosis....there can easily be a bunch of different ones.  In reality, it's just a code to put on the chart so that you can bill insurance.

When I was a MH counselor...I remember meeting with someone who by the time they came to me in the late teens....already had 10 different diagnoses.  Some I agreed with and many I did not.  It can also be difficult to get an accurate diagnosis when dealing with people with comorbid substance abuse disorders because some it is usually recommended to diagnose people with some sustained clean time, but that is rarely able to realistically be done.  

I generally didn't care about the diagnosis.  I cared about the presenting issue and working on that.  

[ReadMeLattice]

There's no way for us to know unless we see her medical chart. We don't have access and it would require a lot more than TV observation to know the complexity of her everyday symptoms, as well as her interiority and motivations. Psychiatrists' diagnoses are as valid as any other doctor's, and mental health diagnoses are medical like any other, but they can shift, just as with other diagnoses, when new symptoms emerge or existing symptoms increase or decrease. Unfortunately some psychiatrists and mental health clinicians do approach it as "just a code," but those who are responsible do not. I'm not comfortable commenting on her potential mental health issues any more than I would be on any other medical problem, especially due to the stigma and misunderstandings associated with certain diagnoses, except to say that she is clearly suffering and causing others to suffer, and I hope she gets it in her head to seek treatment. Though I doubt it.  

Edited June 2, 2016 by Lm2162

[DangerousMinds]

Bipolar disorder does not go away, as depression or generalized anxiety might. If Jenelle was correctly diagnosed as bipolar, she needs to be appropriately medicated to treat the chemical imbalance.

Edited June 3, 2016 by DangerousMinds

[ReadMeLattice]

51 minutes ago, shelley1005 said:

Thanks for the shade that when I was a practicing mental health clinician that I was not responsible.  Appreciated.  

Or maybe those who know that the diagnosis doesn't equate to the person....and focus on the presenting problem and issue that the client presents and not worrying about the label.  

Diagnosis has many flaws, that's definitely true, and it doesn't define a person, but it certainly matters. It matters in terms of the medication they will be prescribed by current and future doctors, how they will be perceived in society, how criminalized they are likely to be by law enforcement, the kind of treatment they seek for themselves, the kinds of support groups they attend, the kind of therapy that might work for them (DBT vs CBT, for example), the kinds of stigmatization they will experience, how they perceive themselves if they do their own research, and how they will be treated if ever institutionalized. That's unfortunate because it would be better if we didn't have diagnoses based on the DSM at all, in my opinion.

I did not throw any shade, that's your perception. I had no idea you were talking about yourself, I actually thought I was underscoring your point. I was responding to your statement that young people are given 10 or more diagnoses (I have seen that often) and have been thrown around to different doctors, and felt that you were saying that people throw out random inadequate diagnoses without spending enough time with patients for the purposes of health insurance. That's never appropriate.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lm2162

[shelley1234]

12 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Bipolar does not go away, as depression or generalized anxiety might. If Jenelle was correctly diagnosed as bipolar, she needs to be appropriately medicated to treat the chemical imbalance.

If in fact she was diagnosed as Bipolar...I have to wonder when that diagnosis happened.  When people are using or in a naturally stressful or abusive environment, it is pretty common for a misdiagnosis.  I don't like to diagnose people from watching them on tv since that is what I would consider irresponsible, but I do think she carries some of the diagnostic criteria from what we've witnessed, even during her clean time.  

And I spent most of my practice working with people with GAD...and I'd say it doesn't go away.  It is managed (just as bipolar is), but it doesn't come and go and it is rarely situational.