S22.E11: Finale - Night 2

[KLovestoShop]

As a disabled woman, being that way since I was 2 years old, I'm not so sure how I feel about the "disabled du jour" on this show.  Yes, it's great that we disabled can show what we can do, but I hate all the tears, and scoring on a curve and sympathy votes.  I don't want sympathy because of my disability ( I can't walk due to polio), but only be judged by what I can actually accomplish with my disability and not because people feel sorry for me.  When I saw Nyle, from the very beginning I KNEW he would win not only because of his being deaf, but because of his physical look.  Sorry, but just because you have a hairy chest and a good build doesn't mean you deserve to win anything.  Yes, I can admire that he danced well, but please, don't vote for him just because he's challenged or good looking.

[iMonrey]

Quote

people handle and respond to pressure and nerves differently. Some stare at their feet, some close their eyes, some smile to the point of locked jaw... 

I noticed that while they were waiting for the winner to be announced, Paige, Mark and Peta were all looking down at the floor, while Nyle was all smiles and looking right out into the audience. And I thought, either he's super confident he's going to win or he's just happy to be there. Then I realized . . . if he was looking at the floor like the others he wouldn't be able to see who the winner was. 

[RedFiat]

Quote

I'm not going to blame him or the show for Paige losing because the judges put her at the top of the leaderboard these past 2 weeks and she danced last..short of rigging the votes I thought they at least tried.

Oh but they did rig the scores against Paige.  There's no way in hell her Argentine Tango was a 29  or her Night one Salsa a 29  Those should have been perfect scores.  Since there was only a 3% difference, those 2 points were important. Conversely, Nyle and his Jive were worth a 7 on a good night, I would only push to an 8 because of a semi finale, except Brooke Burke had a hot mess of a Jive in season 7 in the semi finale and got 7's for her efforts. Considering Len gave both Nyle and Paige on their first dance a 9, the fix was in. Len was following the Agenda as Wade wanted it.  Especially since Len told her straight out if it were about dancing she was the one to beat. 

If Nyle were "killing it" in the votes, he should have got the scores he deserved, instead of the inflated ones. 

Edited May 26, 2016 by RedFiat

[RedFiat]

25 minutes ago, KLovestoShop said:

As a disabled woman, being that way since I was 2 years old, I'm not so sure how I feel about the "disabled du jour" on this show.  Yes, it's great that we disabled can show what we can do, but I hate all the tears, and scoring on a curve and sympathy votes.  I don't want sympathy because of my disability ( I can't walk due to polio), but only be judged by what I can actually accomplish with my disability and not because people feel sorry for me.  When I saw Nyle, from the very beginning I KNEW he would win not only because of his being deaf, but because of his physical look.  Sorry, but just because you have a hairy chest and a good build doesn't mean you deserve to win anything.  Yes, I can admire that he danced well, but please, don't vote for him just because he's challenged or good looking.

Thank you.  Well done for his effort, but it paled in comparison to the ones who actually worked on Ballroom technique.  Unfortunately this is a win with an asterisk.  

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 0:59 PM, luvthepros said:

I don't consider JR Martinez disabled at all. He is a burn victim and disfigured but that does not make him disabled.

Well he was also totally deaf in one ear because of his burns. 

[MakeMeLaugh]

10 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I noticed that while they were waiting for the winner to be announced, Paige, Mark and Peta were all looking down at the floor, while Nyle was all smiles and looking right out into the audience. And I thought, either he's super confident he's going to win or he's just happy to be there. Then I realized . . . if he was looking at the floor like the others he wouldn't be able to see who the winner was. 

Yeah, good point, he was probably looking at his translator, who was probably smiling at him and signing "good luck" or something to him right before signing "you won!"

[MakeMeLaugh]

I thought Nyle was better and amazing at the end, personally. An asterisk in his case would be particularly insulting imo. Lots of people win who someone thought weren't the best dancers but they don't get asterisked, do they?

NB: I never vote, including this season.

Edited May 26, 2016 by MakeMeLaugh

[RedFiat]

Well that's how the cookie crumbles - for me it was an asterisk.  A winner should at least meet a minimum standard and he didn't.

[Drogo]

26 minutes ago, RedFiat said:

Unfortunately this is a win with an asterisk.  

Well he was also totally deaf in one ear because of his burns. 

I've had the honor of meeting JR Martinez and he spoke at length about his experience; his outer ear was removed due to the burns but he didn't lose hearing.  I just Googled to see if I'd missed it, but didn't find anything about his being deaf in an ear. 

Regarding an asterisk on the win, there isn't one.  The winner is the contestant who has the combined total of judges' scores and fan votes, and that person was Nyle. 

[vavera4ka]

if he's an asterisk winner, then so are the majority of this show winners.

[RedFiat]

Oh, I read he lost his ear.  And being in so much pain, it was a miracle he did what he did. He certainly wasn't able bodied  http://soldiers.dodlive.mil/2012/02/from-combat-boots-to-dancing-shoes/

And yet, JR danced so much better than Nyle.  Still an asterisk for me.

Edited May 26, 2016 by RedFiat

[realdancemom]

Since the winner is based on judges' scores and votes, I don't consider Nyle an asterisk winner.  The only one that I do is Kellie Pickler.  That's because the show threw out the online votes for that season.  So we really don't know how many votes Kellie and Zendaya received.  I'm o.k. with it though.  I was rooting for Zendaya all season but I did think that Kellie had the better freestyle.  So she might have won anyway.

I was rooting for Paige because I do think she's the better dancer.  I'm o.k. with Nyle since the show is not just about dancing.  There was no way that Paige and Mark were going to beat their story.  Also, Nyle and Peta did work harder to produce what they did.  I did think a lot of their dances were not synchronized and he needed to work on technique.  But considering where he started and because he's deaf, it's amazing what they did accomplish.

I'm also glad that there is more awareness about the deaf community.  I honestly did not know that certain kids cannot learn ASL.  I just know that it's offered in high schools and colleges but I don't know if it is widely available and affordable for elementary kids.  However, I also think Paige had a message about bullying.  Reading some of the comments, I do think that some people think it can't happen to beautiful cheerleaders or it's not that bad because she's beautiful.  I know this is not true.

[DollEyes]

Quote

I thought Nyle was better and amazing at the end, personally.  An asterisk in his case would be particularly insulting imo. Lots of people win who someone thought weren't the best dancers but they don't get asterisked, do they? 

 ITA. Nyle is a handsome, deaf man, but those aren't the reasons why I voted for him every week. I voted for him and others because their dances moved me in an emotional way. Nyle's dances weren't technically "perfect," but many times they were much better than I expected them to be, especially his Freestyle, which is why I voted for him and why IMO he deserved to win. 

Edited May 28, 2016 by DollEyes

[devonshiredeb]

On 5/24/2016 at 11:17 PM, Runningwild said:

Mark and Paige apparently knew ahead  of time that Nyle won. Paige wouldn't look at the camera and Mark looked ready to stab someone. Geez. 

 

Congratualtions, Nyle and Peta!!! That was so sweet that CAI learned to sign something to him. Made me tear up. 

Unless you had never watched the show, you knew who was winning - especially after Wanya was eliminated the week before.  I did not watch this finale and have no plans to watch the show again.  I'll just follow along here and maybe a dance or two online.  

This season has shown me just how crazy people are with voting.  They are more willing to choose a "good story" over an accomplished or talented or progressing dancer.  Nyles may be a wonderful man, but he is not a better dance than the others in the top 5.

Ahh, this show has jumped the shark for me and that makes me sad - with this and Castle gone, my Monday nights are way different going forward.

[FilmTVGeek80]

29 minutes ago, devonshiredeb said:

Unless you had never watched the show, you knew who was winning - especially after Wanya was eliminated the week before.  I did not watch this finale and have no plans to watch the show again.  I'll just follow along here and maybe a dance or two online.  

This season has shown me just how crazy people are with voting.  They are more willing to choose a "good story" over an accomplished or talented or progressing dancer.  Nyles may be a wonderful man, but he is not a better dance than the others in the top 5.

Ahh, this show has jumped the shark for me and that makes me sad - with this and Castle gone, my Monday nights are way different going forward.

Was this the first season you ever watched? The show certainly didn't jump the shark with Nyle winning. The more popular dancers have been winning over the better "technical" dancers since the very first winner. It's not crazy for people to vote for who they want, especially since everyone's definition of who is "best" differs. I found Nyle better than the other five and apparently plenty agreed. I'll pick the good dancer with great emotional connection to the audience over the "accomplished" dancer who came in with tons of training any day of the week.

[devonshiredeb]

11 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Was this the first season you ever watched? The show certainly didn't jump the shark with Nyle winning. The more popular dancers have been winning over the better "technical" dancers since the very first winner. It's not crazy for people to vote for who they want, especially since everyone's definition of who is "best" differs. I found Nyle better than the other five and apparently plenty agreed. I'll pick the good dancer with great emotional connection to the audience over the "accomplished" dancer who came in with tons of training any day of the week.

Nope, I've watch every season and been disappointed before, but for some reason this season really just left a bitter taste in my mouth.  Heck, in season 1, I was not a Kelly Monaco fan, but she won me over....  I am certain many people enjoyed Nyles and his story (and even his dancing) but IMO, Nyles never showed he was getting better, just that the choreography was made to suit him better.  And yes, for me season 22 was the JTS moment. 

[RedFiat]

30 minutes ago, devonshiredeb said:

Nope, I've watch every season and been disappointed before, but for some reason this season really just left a bitter taste in my mouth.  Heck, in season 1, I was not a Kelly Monaco fan, but she won me over....  I am certain many people enjoyed Nyles and his story (and even his dancing) but IMO, Nyles never showed he was getting better, just that the choreography was made to suit him better.  And yes, for me season 22 was the JTS moment. 

I totally agree. He might be top 5, only because the show decided that his story was more interesting than anybody else's.  Perpetually shoving his "story" down my throat was a turn off, and since Wanye and Jodi were both so much better dancers with interesting stories to share, this season felt like a downer, since good dancing wasn't going to get rewarded.  A semi finals where a guy gets a 60 and then turfed is case in point.  And regardless if they're going to bring in hired guns to do the freestyle, to me it just reeked of the crap to come. No more Ballroom experts to at least control the product. Everything is going to go Mandi Moore and whomever else they can get without Ballroom experience to run the show. The very people who professed to love Ballroom, namely the C brothers sold out and Val probably even threw his freestyle, (WTF is that, if you can't tap don't) just so that the show can get a SYTYCD style Emmy nom.  Sad to throw Ballroom and Latin under the bus. I always admired those guys for keeping it real before, now this season only Mark seemed to give a damn about great Ballroom and Latin dancing and went back to his roots to give us some of the best routines with good content, namely the Jive and the Samba. Thanks Mark for caring.  

Edited May 26, 2016 by RedFiat

[howmanywords]

3 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

 Sorry, but just because you have a hairy chest and a good build doesn't mean you deserve to win anything.  Yes, I can admire that he danced well, but please, don't vote for him just because he's challenged or good looking.

There have been some insanely gorgeous men over the years, even better looking than Nyle and they lost. If viewers were really as shallow as you think then William Levy and Gilles Marini would have won.

[Mbeaker]

Eh, when we've gotten Helio over Mel B, Donald over Katherine, Melissa over Shawn/Apolo/Gilles in the All-Star season, Donny over Mya, and so many more, I can't say that Nyle's win gets an asterisk. This show has never been about the best dancer winning. And how could it be when the result is based not only on scores but audience votes. People at home vote for all sorts of reasons. And I'm fine with that. My voting criteria are not somehow better than someone else's. And while good dancing is high up on my list, there are several proficient dancers that have left me cold over the seasons. Why would I vote for someone that doesn't make me feel something when they dance, no matter how good? Furthermore, DWTS would be a pretty boring and predictable show if the best technical dancer always won. 

[RedFiat]

It never has to be a best dancer, but it should be one that shows improvement. There's no way that fusion was any better than week one Cha Cha.  In fact it was worse. I have never watched a finalist who didn't even care about finishing his steps, or correcting his posture. Ever other winner, at least in my memory, made the attempt and shown improvement. This winner, not so much.   

[Mbeaker]

Even if that is your criteria, I don't agree that every other winner showed improvement. I found several of them to have had plateaued or regressed. 

[RedFiat]

Okay well the ones you listed all showed improvement over the course of the season. Helio's Quickstep is held up as an all time great,  Donald's Trio Jive was the first time they had a trio and it's still one of the best, the guys just didn't cut it in the All Stars, so the win for Melissa maybe debatable, but she still showed improvement over her first season.  Donny Osmond is an asterisk for me, another one that I just don't get the admiration over dance.

[Mbeaker]

Mileage varies because Helio's Quickstep being held up as a great has little to do with his technique for me. It was incredibly sloppy. His technique was never better than it was in his Foxtrot... and that was in week 1. And, again, Helio isn't the only example for me. You may have seen improvement in some of those others, I did not. 

Edited to add: apologies to the mods for steering off this episode and onto past seasons. I will cut it out now. 

Edited May 26, 2016 by Mbeaker

[vibeology]

22 hours ago, kitcloudkicker said:

Poor Mark and his Resting Bitch Face. People always think he's peeved. 

I feel bad for him but it is nice to see this happening to a guy for a change. I think he was much happier dancing with Paige than he was last season with Alexa last season.

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I noticed that while they were waiting for the winner to be announced, Paige, Mark and Peta were all looking down at the floor, while Nyle was all smiles and looking right out into the audience. And I thought, either he's super confident he's going to win or he's just happy to be there. Then I realized . . . if he was looking at the floor like the others he wouldn't be able to see who the winner was. 

At one point when Bruno was judging him, Bruno did a gesture to try to get Nyle to look him in the eye. I died laughing because if Nyle had looked Bruno in the eye, he wouldn't have been able to see what notRamon was signing. Dumb Bruno. 

[SunFun]

All 3 final dancers were good. Paige, w/ all her dance background, was superb. Loved to watch her. But, it was Nyle, w/ no dance or performing experience and deaf, who had me totally captivated. I thought what he accomplished was remarkable. Fun to watch, but often beautiful and touching, too.

No * for me. Instead, one of my favorite winners.

[Uke]

15 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I noticed that while they were waiting for the winner to be announced, Paige, Mark and Peta were all looking down at the floor, while Nyle was all smiles and looking right out into the audience. And I thought, either he's super confident he's going to win or he's just happy to be there. Then I realized . . . if he was looking at the floor like the others he wouldn't be able to see who the winner was. 

http://www.gossipcop.com/nyle-dimarco-live-kelly-video-dance-peta-murgatroyd-watch/ 

Live With Kelly Show (video starting at 1:58)

Kelly: "How was it...finally hearing your name called." (uh, yea, she said that)

Nyle: " ... Our story is unique and I think we really deserve it".

I guess Nyle was just super confident.  Also after Len's "if it were based on dancing" remark, that would have been confirmation for Mark that he and Paige did not win and he would have prepped Paige for that.   (Standing there listening to that heartbeat results sound effect, I'm sure they just wanted to get it over with.)   Peta, hearing Len's remark, would have known what was coming and probably kept her face down to shield her excitement.  No need for her to prep Nyle - she just let him have a natural reaction. 

Edited May 27, 2016 by Uke

[truthaboutluv]

15 hours ago, Mbeaker said:

Eh, when we've gotten Helio over Mel B, Donald over Katherine, Melissa over Shawn/Apolo/Gilles in the All-Star season, Donny over Mya, and so many more, I can't say that Nyle's win gets an asterisk. This show has never been about the best dancer winning. And how could it be when the result is based not only on scores but audience votes. People at home vote for all sorts of reasons. And I'm fine with that. My voting criteria are not somehow better than someone else's. And while good dancing is high up on my list, there are several proficient dancers that have left me cold over the seasons. Why would I vote for someone that doesn't make me feel something when they dance, no matter how good? Furthermore, DWTS would be a pretty boring and predictable show if the best technical dancer always won. 

Yup...basically. This show has been on over 10 years and 20 plus seasons and it continues to boggle my mind that some still get so pressed about the "best technical dancer" did not win. I guess it helps that I don't vote so I don't get invested because sorry, I refuse to get invested in a show where the glory is a cheesy mirrorball trophy. But this show is what it is and always has been what it is. And for some who suggest removing the viewer voting aspect - that was one of the very things that made the show a hit. That the audience feels like they play a part in who ultimately wins the ugly trophy. So I don't see how that's going to help the show with their core viewers and fanbase. Of which I'm not talking about the handful of people who post on message boards. 

 

Quote

Sorry, but just because you have a hairy chest and a good build doesn't mean you deserve to win anything.  Yes, I can admire that he danced well, but please, don't vote for him just because he's challenged or good looking.

But why not? The show says vote for your favorite. There is no criteria and rule on how and why that favorite should be chosen. People have voted for people because of showmances, because they like that they were not natural dancers and had no background in performing, some people have not voted for a celebrity because they were too good because they found that boring. Many people watch this show for the stories and "journey", etc. Some people vote for a pairing just because they like the partnership or the celebrity is seen as adorable or a great personality (e.g. Tommy Chong, Bill Engvall). Some people have huge pre-existing fanbases that vote for them regardless of how they dance on the show. Some people vote because they love a Pro and will vote for them regardless of who they are paired with. All perfectly valid in my book. 

Edited May 27, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[boyznkatz]

I really doubt they tell people beforehand whether they won or lost. That would be super unethical, even for them. I think the judges probably know, but I really doubt Paige and Nyle knew. Some people smile when they wait for the results, and others look at the floor. I don't think it means anything.

I thought it was a good final, anyway. I really couldn't tell who was going to win.

[Runningwild]

On May 25, 2016 at 2:30 PM, movement said:

If she stopped taking dance classes in middle school, she didn't have massive dance experience.  And just because you take classes doesn't mean you have massive performance experience (dance studio recitals and child competitions do not count).  I wish people would just admit that they voted for Nyle because they admired him, thought he was cute or whatever.  Prior dance experience should not be used for not voting for a person unless that's what you've done since the early seasons.  And looking at some of the winners, I don't think that's the case.

She may have not officially taken any more lessons, but her mother is a dance instructor. And there are plenty of YouTube videos of Paige showing off her dancing skills. It just feels like her backstory of lacking confidence is a complete fabrication. 

I don't see why people should admit to anything about why they voted for Nyke other than he was their favorite. That is the criteria. 

Should people who voted for Paige just admit she had a ton of pre-existing dance skills and knowledge?

[simplyme]

24 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

Should people who voted for Paige just admit she had a ton of pre-existing dance skills and knowledge?

I don't have a problem admitting I knew Paige had years of dance training and I voted for her.  I don't really see the issue.  We've had lots of celebs with extensive prior dance experience who weren't nearly as good as Paige was.  Also, I saw definite improvement in her technique.

People do vote for different reasons.  I thought Nyle was amazing and really broke a lot of stereotypes.  I'm happy for him (and Peta) that they won, and that he moved and inspired people.  That said, I personally could not get past his posture issues to vote for him.  Being a bit out of sync or things like that were always going to be exponentially (if not impossibly) harder for him.  Having the right frame and posture was certainly attainable, but I saw little improvement.

Ginger improved a lot too.  Too bad I had to prop my eyelids up with toothpicks to notice this.

One more thing about Nyle: A lot of people seem to either somewhat blindly adore him or think he's an arrogant jerk getting a free pass.  He seems strangely polarizing to me.  I'm pretty sure he's just a normal human.  I don't think he's the second coming or more altruistic than your average celebrity.  He's got a great cause that works well with his narrative.  He's a confident person, which can be read as arrogant especially when you consider we're hearing his words and inflections through a translator.  That whole business of comparing himself to Val seemed like making a mountain out of a molehill to me.

Or maybe it's just that DWTS itself can be very polarizing?

[mtlchick]

Quote

Nyle's dances weren't technically "perfect," but many times they were much better than I expected them to be, especially his Freestyle, which is why I voted for him and why IMO he deserved to win.  

 

That's why I felt he was going to win, personal story aside.  Mark had probably the BEST contestant he had in a while (though Sadie and Willow were game for anything) and I think is one of the most original choreographers on the show now.  So I was hoping with that combo he can create one outstanding freestyle.  

He didn't.  I felt that it was generic and plain with a song that has been done to death on shows.  I remember his Super Mario Bros freestyle with Sadie because as bizarre as it was, it was fun and it stood out.  This one didn't grab me at all.
 

[boyznkatz]

32 minutes ago, simplyme said:

One more thing about Nyle: A lot of people seem to either somewhat blindly adore him or think he's an arrogant jerk getting a free pass.  He seems strangely polarizing to me.  I'm pretty sure he's just a normal human.  I don't think he's the second coming or more altruistic than your average celebrity.  He's got a great cause that works well with his narrative.  He's a confident person, which can be read as arrogant especially when you consider we're hearing his words and inflections through a translator.  That whole business of comparing himself to Val seemed like making a mountain out of a molehill to me.

Well as someone who rooted for him, I neither idolized him or thought he was arrogant. I found him the most interesting because I can't even imagine trying to dance without hearing anything at all. Ginger and Paige, as good as they were, weren't very interesting when they were interviewed. I enjoyed seeing them dance, but that was it.

BTW like many people here, I didn't care enough about the outcome to vote for anyone.

[SnarkyTart]

10 hours ago, Uke said:

Kelly: "How was it...finally hearing your name called." (uh, yea, she said that)

Nyle: " ... Our story is unique and I think we really deserve it".

Well.  Humility and gracious winning, thy name is Nyle. < /sarc>

[realdancemom]

2 hours ago, Runningwild said:

She may have not officially taken any more lessons, but her mother is a dance instructor. And there are plenty of YouTube videos of Paige showing off her dancing skills. It just feels like her backstory of lacking confidence is a complete fabrication. 

I don't see why people should admit to anything about why they voted for Nyke other than he was their favorite. That is the criteria. 

Should people who voted for Paige just admit she had a ton of pre-existing dance skills and knowledge?

A person can have confidence on the dance floor and still be bullied.  It seems that some people think that she made up the story because beautiful girls that are cheerleaders are not bullied.  As I previously posted, that is not true.  One of my DDs goes to a ballet academy and one of the students in her level is gorgeous and very talented.  She is well liked at the academy and does well at YAGP competitions.  However, she was bullied so badly at school, that her parents allowed her to quit this year.  She will be home schooled next year.  So beautiful and talented girls can be bullied and can go to dark places.

I don't mind admitting that I voted for Paige and that she has pre-existing dance skills and knowledge.  That is nothing new to DWTS.  I just want to watch good dancing and don't want to see a bunch of clunkers.  That is the reason why I don't mind that Peta used an outside choreographer for their freestyle either.  I actually preferred Nyle/Peta's freestyle to Mark/Paige's.  Out of all the contestants, I was looking forward to Paige's and Wanya's freestyles the most.  I was disappointed that Wanya didn't make the finals.  I was also disappointed in Paige's freestyle.  It was technically the best freestyle and it fit her message.  But I wanted something more creative from Mark.  I still voted for her with my five measly votes because I looked at the whole season.  Her technique was not only the best but she also did more advanced moves.  I enjoyed her Austin Powers and Tina Turner numbers the most.

I'm fine with Nyle winning.  People can vote for whoever they want and for whatever reason.  Sometimes, it's a little frustrating like when Bristol made the finals.  But that's what also makes the show not so predictable.

Edited May 27, 2016 by realdancemom

[simplyme]

17 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

Well as someone who rooted for him, I neither idolized him or thought he was arrogant. I found him the most interesting because I can't even imagine trying to dance without hearing anything at all.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest everyone reacted to him this way.  I understand most people either felt a connection or respect for Nyle if they voted for him.  My apologies if it came across that way. :)  Maybe I should have said "certain people" or "some people" or phrased it differently, rather than saying "a lot."

That comment was prompted by quite a few posts Internet-wide (not necessarily here) that were either along the lines of, "OMG! Nyle is the nicest guy ever!!! That was amazing!!! SQUEEE!!" to things calling him a conceited pretty boy who constantly played the deaf card.  I was kind of like, "Wow.  Calm down, people.  He neither walks on water nor kicks small, orphaned animals for the joy of hearing their pained cries." :P  To be fair, the majority of posts were somewhat reasonable, but I was still bothered by the large number of hyperbolic reactions.  It just felt like more than usual to me.

(Honestly, I only bothered to vote one week myself, but it was for Paige.)

[boyznkatz]

28 minutes ago, simplyme said:

I certainly didn't mean to suggest everyone reacted to him this way.  I understand most people either felt a connection or respect for Nyle if they voted for him.  My apologies if it came across that way. :)  Maybe I should have said "certain people" or "some people" or phrased it differently, rather than saying "a lot."

No worries, I knew what you were saying, so no offense taken :-)

I do agree that some people get obsessed with certain pros and contestants; either they love them or hate them.

Edited May 27, 2016 by boyznkatz

[Uke]

9 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

I really doubt they tell people beforehand whether they won or lost. That would be super unethical, even for them. I think the judges probably know, but I really doubt Paige and Nyle knew. Some people smile when they wait for the results, and others look at the floor. I don't think it means anything.

I thought it was a good final, anyway. I really couldn't tell who was going to win.

I didn't mean to imply that anyone told Mark beforehand. He is pretty well connected to knowing what's happening in media/social media.  He can read the tea leaves, just like Derek and a few others.  He and some other pros  have often mentioned during the season that they had a pretty good sense of, for example, being eliminated that night, even when it wasn't apparent by the scoreboard.  Something in the air, something in how things are being done on set, who's getting the attention, etc. 

But I do believe the judges, or at least Len, knows the results and every season one of them spills the secret during the finale judging.  They can't very well have the judges tell the winning couple "very nice, thanks for playing, now move along" or the 3rd place couple "that was the greatest dance ever danced". Of course the judges know.  It's a produced reality show.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Uke

[radishcake]

Keep reminding yourself to make "I" statements. In my opinion, I think, etc... your opinions on the show not other posters and not other posters opinions on the show.