S02.E22: Chapter Forty-Four

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

In the second-season finale, Jane's wedding plans become chaotic after the date is moved up. Meanwhile, Jane's displeased with her thesis; Rafael is torn about his feelings for Jane; Anezka's rushed to the hospital; and Xo receives unexpected news.

[nilyank]

Is it the fall yet?

Michael can't be dead. 

Someone needs to save Petra.

[mariah23]

I  have decided to be in willful denial about Michael.

[SeanC]

The instant that "roll tide" anecdote was introduced at the wedding I guessed exactly how the episode would end.

Rose's mask is one of the most ridiculous and awesome things I've seen on TV in a while.

[commadrama]

Loved this episode. Rogelio was cracking me up throughout. The last twenty minutes was so intense--if only because I was tearing up at the wedding, but also waiting for the other shoe to drop.

And poor Petra. Girlfriend just can't catch a break! Yael Grobglas has been doing an excellent job playing twins.

Edited May 17, 2016 by commadrama

[swimmyfish]

You guys, after it was revealed that it was Petra in the hospital, I relaxed. Surely, I thought, they won't harm Petra and Michael. But then the snowglobe broke, and I don't think he's gonna get out of this one.

I mean, overall it was a lovely episode, but that was a very sad end.

[JennyMominFL]

Who wrote this episode, George RR Martin?

[kirinan]

Okay, TV. I lost Agent Carter this season. I lost Captain Cold on Legends of Tomorrow. I lost Josh Lucas on Mysteries of Laura. I lost Castle (well, not that I cared all that much, but I lost Ryan and Esposito). I lost Telenovela. I'm still not over losing Danny Pino from Law & Order SVU last season. So I absolutely, positively refuse to lose Michael and Jane the Virgin, because I WILL stop watching if Michael's dead. Not to mention Petra, although I can't imagine they'd kill her off. 

What a beautiful, family-filled. wonderful, loving wedding. Everything was perfect. Especially Jane and Rogelio's father-daughter dance. And Rafael kept his mouth shut. And I laughed so many times. AND THEY CAN'T KILL MICHAEL OFF. He'll be saved next season, right?

On the positive side, I will have a LOT of time to catch up on my reading next season. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by kirinan

[natyxg]

I KNEW Rose wasn't dead, I called it from the first day! That "death" was just weird. I also knew they were gonna kill Michael in this episode. I spent the whole episode with an intense feeling of dread, specially after Rafael didn't tell Jane the truth and the wedding did happen. Michael seems to have gotten shot in the heart, and though I imagine it could be a cliffhanger, I think the chances of him dying are high. The narrator pretty much told us this. And Jane and Michael actually got married, which is his death sentence, imo. I said it once, the show won't let Jane lose her virginity with anyone but Rafael. *eyeroll*

I expected some switch-aroo with Petra and her sister, but damn, leaving her paralyzed like that is COLD.

Poor Petra, poor Michael.

Rose is still so hot, though.

Edited May 17, 2016 by natyxg

[galax-arena]

I haven't been able to watch this ep yet but I was keeping up with a discussion post elsewhere so I've been spoiled on the major plot twists. Anyway, a lot of us here had already guessed that Rose wasn't really dead so that wasn't super-shocking, but I'm still bummed that Susanna turned out to be shady after all because I just wanted her and Luisa to be happy, dammit. Although, I'm a bit confused on when Rose took over Susanna's identity. Was she masquerading as Susanna the whole time? Did Susanna never technically exist? Guess I have to hurry up and watch this ep. 

Poor Petra. And Michael, too. 

ETA: I guess this article answers my queston. There never was a Susanna. I'm annoyed. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by galax-arena

[nilyank]

Rose is some kind of evil. 

She murders the father of the woman she claims to be the love of her life.

She kidnapped Mateo the day he was born.

She shot (not killed because I refuse to believe it) Michael on his wedding day after faking being his partner for a year on the force.

[Thalia]

Bret Dier does the teary eyed thing better than any other actor on TV.   And I loved the extended hug between the besties at the altar. 

Edited May 22, 2016 by Thalia

[natyxg]

2 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Rose is some kind of evil. 

She murders the father of the woman she claims to be the love of her life.

She kidnapped Mateo the day he was born.

She shot (not killed because I refuse to believe it) Michael on his wedding day after faking being his partner for a year on the force.

She really is. And Bridget is so good at playing her so wickedly.

[Irlandesa]

I've been counting on Michael dying so he won't be dead.  He'll either have amnesia or a personality transplant or paralysis or something I can guarantee you I won't care about but he'll be alive.

I guessed the declaration from Rafael in the promo was just going to be a fantasy.

I feel like that mask was a step too far but it looks like Bridget Reagan is available now which is why they went that route over the most obvious and a touch more believable plastic surgery angle.

So Rafael has his sperm stolen twice and now he sleeps with someone deceiving him as to who she is.  I guess I just find that really icky and not entertaining at all.  (Predictable as soon as they had Raf sniffing around Petra again for no good reason and Anezka showing up.) Petra will be fine too once the plan is finished.  Whatever the plan is.  We were supposed to find out about it today but I don't think this show plans things much.

Xio ending up having an unwanted pregnancy was also predictable.

Sorry for ranting. I feel like this show is an absuive relationship I need to get out of.  Its negatives for me far outweigh its charms. 

[cardigirl]

Dammit show!!! Nooooooooooo!!

[Lee4U]

It will kill it for me if they have Michael die - it will go from a fun lovable show to something that is not enjoyable for me if they kill off some such a terrific character but Rose came back and like on regular soap operas, people don't seem to stay dead.  

Maybe it will have been a shot that just misses the deadly spot, he doesn't die but somehow winds up with amnesia or something.  What??  It's not like crazier stuff hasn't happened on this show already.  

He's magic with both Jane and Rogelio - so much chemistry.  

Or, maybe he really is dead.

I'm not understanding why someone thinks Jane has to lose her virginity to Rafael - is there some reason for thinking that?  I sure don't.  

[vixenbynight]

37 minutes ago, mariah23 said:

I  have decided to be in willful denial about Michael.

I'm cruising down the river of Denial, because there's no way that Michael's really dead. It'll be revealed in the 3rd season, about a third way through the episodes, that Michael's sargeant knew something was off about "Susanna". Michael's going to end up in a coma.

I also believe, that once the news about how Michael was put into a coma and the connection to Sin Rostra, Rafael and his crazy/criminal crime family, there's no way in hell that any sort of romantic relationship could ever blossom again between Jane and Rafael.

29 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Rose is some kind of evil. 

She murders the father of the woman she claims to be the love of her life.

She kidnapped Mateo the day he was born.

She shot (not killed because I refuse to believe it) Michael on his wedding day after faking being his partner for a year on the force.

Yet, she's the love of Luisa's life. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by vixenbynight

[natyxg]

8 minutes ago, Lee4U said:

I'm not understanding why someone thinks Jane has to lose her virginity to Rafael - is there some reason for thinking that?  I sure don't.  

I've been saying it, yes. Not because it's my personal opinion, but because this is the kind of stuff shows do. Jane and Rafael are the main characters, he is the father of Jane's son and her virginity is a big deal in this particular story. Not only do I think they will end up together (though I preferred Michal and Jane *sniffs*), but whenever Jane loses her virginity I'm pretty sure it will be with Rafael. It's why I was so sure, as the episode progressed and nothing stopped the wedding, that something WAS gonna happen to Michael before they could consummate the marriage. When he went to get ice or whatever I knew he was doomed.

[Lee4U]

Oh, I don't take it that way at all.  I knew they were going to do something dramatic to halt her losing her virginity and I figured it would be something happening to Michael but I just assume they aren't going to have her marry anyone for a number of seasons or maybe even until the very end, so she remains as the title (virgin) of the show but, I don't feel her and Rafael are the end game at all; maybe they are but I don't get that feeling - I guess time will tell.  

[elle]

Quote

 Xo receives unexpected news.

I knew it!   I was more worried about this development than the whole Michael plot!

THIS SHOW!  So much greatness in this episode!  Alba's story,  Alba teaching Michael to say the vows in Spanish,   the whole rehearsal disaster, her advisor helping her with the wedding dress.  But my favorite part?  All Jane and Rogelio, for the win!  You could tell those two were having so much fun during the father/daughter dance.

I'm just going to ignore the rest of the telenovella plot.  Although I will say that I was convinced that it was Anezka not Petra at the wedding because of the very big un-Petra like smile she gave Jane, but they tricked me.  That is all I'm going to say about that.

Edited May 17, 2016 by elle
trouble with first post

[AlliMo]

I giggled for a good five minutes at the chorus exhorting Jane to "Go get laid!"

I can see the show going the route of Michael being in a coma/presumed dead, Jane leaning on Rafael, and being torn between the two of them, again.

Man, Petra really cannot catch a break.

[natyxg]

Quote

I've been counting on Michael dying so he won't be dead.  He'll either have amnesia or a personality transplant or paralysis or something I can guarantee you I won't care about but he'll be alive.

I guess I could see coma followed by amnesia happening, as an alternative to him dying, though he did get shot in the chest/heart?

[AnnaRose]

14 hours ago, Lee4U said:

Oh, I don't take it that way at all.  I knew they were going to do something dramatic to halt her losing her virginity and I figured it would be something happening to Michael but I just assume they aren't going to have her marry anyone for a number of seasons or maybe even until the very end, so she remains as the title (virgin) of the show but, I don't feel her and Rafael are the end game at all; maybe they are but I don't get that feeling - I guess time will tell.  

Producer Jennie Urman, in the article linked above, explains about the title and Jane's virginity

Quote

Spoiler

Jane’s virginity: Urman and co. have a plan for how to deal with the show’s title once Jane is no longer a virgin — run the title card as usual, then cross out “The Virgin”– but they won’t have to worry about that just yet.

“I’ve said it before, but the loss of her virginity is imminent,” Urman reiterated. “We’re not holding it until the end of our series, but I never wanted it to be in a season premiere or finale. I feel like that puts too much pressure on her virginity as this sacred thing that the show is about, and it’s really not about her virginity. It’s about Jane and her journey to motherhood and her family, so I just never wanted to do it at the end of a season or the beginning. That was my only personal rule. And we knew this would be the wedding, at the end, and what would happen afterwards would complicate that. People will not be waiting forever for Jane to lose her virginity.”

Urman declined to specify whether it would definitely happen in Season 3, saying only, “It’s coming soon.”

 

 

I'm glad we can finally put that to rest.  I never saw it as being an issue.  Then again, I watched Cougar Town, and they played around with the title and title card on a weekly basis.

I loved Rogelio throughout, especially the groom/bestie extended hug and the father/daughter dance.  He was particularly awesome.

Damn, Anezka is stone cold.  Poor Petra.  And Raphael.  I hope that gets resolved quickly.

I saw Xo's pregnancy coming a mile away.  I'm not happy about that.

And poor Michael.  I hope he survives somehow.

Edited May 17, 2016 by AnnaRose
added spoiler tags

[Lee4U]

Oh, good - it would be odd to have her remain a virgin.  I don't read articles about shows for the most part so miss all that sort of info.

[Irlandesa]

23 minutes ago, vixenbynight said:

I also believe, that once the news about how Michael was put into a coma and the connection to Sin Rostra, Rafael and his crazy/criminal crime family, there's no way in hell that any sort of romantic relationship could ever blossom again between Jane and Rafael.

I don't see the show drawing that line.  Every time Sin Rostro has brought danger into Jane's life, it has been because of Michael not Rafael.  Isn't that why Michael stayed away until after he thought Rose was dead? This isn't Rafael's crazy family, it's Michael's crazy partner. 

[elle]

5 minutes ago, AnnaRose said:

Damn, Anezka is stone cold.  Poor Petra

Was anyone else thinking she Anezka should have removed Petra's pretty blue dress before she started dying her hair dark?  Too risky to get either dye (blond or brown) on the dress.

[vixenbynight]

Just now, Irlandesa said:

I don't see the show drawing that line.  Every time Sin Rostro has brought danger into Jane's life, it has been because of Michael not Rafael.  Isn't that why Michael stayed away until after he thought Rose was dead? This isn't Rafael's crazy family, it's Michael's crazy partner.

How is it not connected to Rafael's crazy family. Susanna is Sin Rostra. Susanna never existed. Whelp. More theories until the next season begins.

[mrsbagnet]

See, this is why I hate lingerie. If they had just gotten it on immediately, no one would have been shot.

I was never on the "Michael will die" train, but when Bruno Mars pointedly sang "until the day I die" twice, I lost all hope.

When Michael started speaking Spanish at the wedding, I got a little verklempt.

 

Quote

Was anyone else thinking she Anezka should have removed Petra's pretty blue dress before she started dying her hair dark?  Too risky to get either dye (blond or brown) on the dress.

I thought the lying-down dye job was far-fetched because, wouldn't she have to rinse? But then Susanna pulled her face off, so I guess anything is possible on this show.

Edited May 17, 2016 by mrsbagnet

[natyxg]

Just now, mrsbagnet said:

I was never on the "Michael will die" train, but when Bruno Mars pointedly sang "until the day I die" twice, I lost all hope.

And the wedding vows talking about till death do us part and all that. Maybe they're just trolling, but they've definitely done the work of foreshadowing Michael dying. 

[Gin and Tonic]

Quote

So Rafael has his sperm stolen twice and now he sleeps with someone deceiving him as to who she is.  I guess I just find that really icky and not entertaining at all. 

Yeah. This trope never gets called out for what it is, which is rape by deception. It's gross to me too.

I'm not sure what was funnier, Jane's advisor saying she felt like she was locking Jane into the patriarchy or Rogelio singing about Jane having sex with his best friend. I laughed at both.

I'm willing to see what happens in the beginning of season 3, but I still don't see how Michael can be dead. Coma, sure. Amnesia, okay. But death? I feel like it would undermine the show if they didn't take Jane's widowhood seriously, but I also don't see how the show can stay the frothy, vibrant show if they have Jane (and let's be real, Rogelio) grieving.

I guess we'll see in a few months.

ETA: Really glad Rafael didn't say anything. It made me respect the character more.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Gin and Tonic

[Irlandesa]

16 minutes ago, vixenbynight said:

How is it not connected to Rafael's crazy family. Susanna is Sin Rostra. Susanna never existed. Whelp. More theories until the next season begins.

I see it more of a past relationship  The legal connection died the minute she killed Emilio. But either way, I still don't see how this would prohibit a rekindling between Jane and Rafael if she's ever unattached in the future.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Irlandesa

[Lady Calypso]

This episode was full of surprises, the major one being that they actually went through with the wedding, and Jane and Michael got more than a few minutes of happiness after their wedding.

Bruno Mars! What a surprise!

I had a feeling Susanna was bad for sure and might shoot Michael the moment Michael met Rogelio's friend and he learned that saying "roll tide". Also, too many anvils of Michael dying and they went through with him possibly dying as a cliffhanger. 

No! The snowglobe! 

No! Petra! I knew that was coming the moment Anezka and Raf were talking to the doctors.

I'm proud of Rafael for sacrificing his own happiness to let Jane be happy. I hope he doesn't move in on Jane too soon, though. 

I'm just going to pretend Michael is fine and just in a coma. I'll bet he's not dead and he'll be in a coma for a few episodes, wake up, have amnesia, and that's going to break Jane and Michael up so Raf can have Jane.  That's my guess, not that I really want it to happen. I don't quite know how we'll go from this to Jane/Raf getting together, but they've breezed straight to romance before. I just don't see it being genuine without Jane doing it out of grief for Michael, and then it wouldn't feel right to me. Jane/Michael being so in love and Jane not showing her romantic feelings for Rafael anymore makes it seem impossible to pair them off....at least right away. Not unless Michael divorces Jane, so that's where the amnesia plot would come in, I guess....which would REALLY suck and no thank you.

Yeah, Xo being pregnant was obvious. Now, realistically Xo would probably have an abortion if she really didn't want kids, but I'll bet she either changes her mind or Rogelio/Alba convince her to keep the kid for whatever reason...although Rogelio convincing her is less likely. I mean, she's having Esteban's kid, right? 

I burst out laughing at the 'Have Sex' chorus. 

Honestly, I'm really happy Jane and Michael actually got married. They got to be happy, and Brett and Gina really work well together. I really felt for them with their giddiness. Also, I absolutely teared up at Michael learning the Spanish vows for Jane. That was such a beautiful moment.

Oh, and Susanna being Sin Rosetro? I'm going to have to rewatch that ending just to figure out how she did it, but alrighty then! I think some people jokingly brought this theory up before 'Rose' was killed, so I never discounted it as a possibility. Not officially, anyway. But oh man, Luisa told Raf that she fell in love after Rose....except now it's been Rose this entire time. This is going to make for an awkward retcon of her speech to Raf. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by Lady Calypso
sometimes i type too fast and have spelling and grammar mistakes

[Artsda]

I loved the wedding, it was light, it was fun. Michael break dancing with his friends, Jane and Rogelio's dance, Michael speaking his vows in spanish brought tears to my eyes. It was all so well done. 

Rogelio hugging Michael so long at the altar and his calling him his son. Awww. 

I knew the second Michael went to get ice he shouldn't do it. I said "no, don't leave the room!" Really really hoping someone gets him to the hospital and this is a fake out. He can't be dead. 

Xo being pregnant with Esteban’s baby. Poor Rogelio.

Bruno Mars! Wow great cameo. Wasn't expecting that. 

Glad Raf wasn't so selfish like the promo suggested. When his sister is even being a voice of reason, he had to realize how horrible he would be for ruining Jane's day when she's so in love with Michael.

Poor Petra, her sister had that all planned. Just crazy. It needs to be September now!

Edited May 17, 2016 by Artsda

[twoods]

I really don't want to watch this finale because the wedding is going to make me cry, and then Michael getting shot is going to make me cry harder. I have been dreading this moment and now that it's here, I want to be in denial and not watch it! And Petra is hurt too? I really want Rose and Petra's mom dead already. 

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, twoods said:

I really don't want to watch this finale because the wedding is going to make me cry, and then Michael getting shot is going to make me cry harder. I have been dreading this moment and now that it's here, I want to be in denial and not watch it! And Petra is hurt too? I really want Rose and Petra's mom dead already. 

Listen, those moments are definitely worthy of tears, but watching it is worth it for the beauty and the happiness up until the last ten minutes. It truly is a beautiful episode, filled with so many beautiful moments from all the characters...even if there are several anvils being dropped throughout. 

[natyxg]

Just now, twoods said:

I really don't want to watch this finale because the wedding is going to make me cry, and then Michael getting shot is going to make me cry harder. I have been dreading this moment and now that it's here, I want to be in denial and not watch it! And Petra is hurt too? I really want Rose and Petra's mom dead already. 

The Petra thing is REALLY fucked up. Her sister injected her with something that basically left her fully paralyzed (can only move her eyes and blink), yet fully conscious, and swapped places with her. So now Petra is that the hospital basically screaming internally for who knows how long. Something like that is one of my biggest fears, not gonna lie. I find it quite horrifying.

[Anisky]

56 minutes ago, Gin and Tonic said:

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

So Rafael has his sperm stolen twice and now he sleeps with someone deceiving him as to who she is.  I guess I just find that really icky and not entertaining at all. 

Yeah. This trope never gets called out for what it is, which is rape by deception. It's gross to me too.

I agree with both of you, but I'm holding out hope that Jane the Virgin will actually treat what happened like the rape it is, and have characters identify it as rape and show Rafael struggling with what happened to him.

For one thing, the woman Rafael thought he was sleeping with was drugged so that she's paralyzed, but aware, unable to communicate and let people know that she's herself, but knows her clearly ill-intentioned twin is pretending to be her and moving in on at least one of her loved ones. That's really hellish and dark, when you think about it; we definitely weren't supposed to find the Raf/Anezka sex cute or funny. That much is a good sign.

Another thing giving me hope is that Jane the Virgin is definitely feminist and the writers clearly are also very knowledgeable about feminism-- for example, the episode where they made a point of demonstrating the Bechdel Test throughout so that all their viewers would really be aware of it. That rape by deception is rape is definitely something knowledgeable feminists would aware of, and feminists are also way more likely to apply the same standards to both genders, and treat what is viewed as raping a woman the same as what is raping a man. 

I mean, this is more of a hope than a prediction. But honestly, I will be REALLY, REALLY disappointed in this show if they just gloss over it and don't point out that Rafael was raped. It would seriously lower my opinion of Jane the Virgin. But I think there's reason to hope that Jane the Virgin actually will call the trope out.

 

EDIT: Oh, also wanted to say, Jane's new thesis/novel idea sounds interesting, and incidentally, also like something that her advisor is actually a lot more likely to like. Given how much she loves The House of the Spirits, the relocation of a lot of the story to South America makes me think she'll probably end up writing it with at least some magical realism. Also, for better or worse, a magical realism novel that has a love story is viewed as a lot more "legit" and "literary" than a romance novel, so that being the result of her time in graduate school would feel a little more realistic. 

I also like how they're making Professor Donaldson more and more sympathetic-- in particular, it's been showing that she's actually quite reasonable.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Anisky

[possibilities]

That article with the showrunner was really good, galex-arena. Thank you for linking to it. I love that they are trying to minimize the significance of the virginity issue by not making it part of a season finale, and that they are promising not to keep Jane a virgin forever. It's things like this that give me hope they are also not going to glorify or gloss over the evil of Anezka deceiving Rafael. If any show will make a statement like this, calling a rape for what it is, it's this one.

Xo needs to have an abortion. Please, show. Please.

If Rogelio wants kids, why is he basically screwing around, and not actually making any kind of concrete plan, either to be a single dad or to find a partner who is into being a mother? I know the biological clock is not as big a deal for men as it is for women, but still-- he's all tell, no show, in this area.

I couldn't believe it when Jane and Xo laughed about the veil being a flea market find, and not a family heirloom. I loved that so much.

I also liked Jane's new idea for her thesis.

Has anyone seen that movie about the author with locked in syndrome? I can't remember the name of it. But there are ways to help people communicate, using eye blinks. I am hoping Petra will be able to do that-- this is not the way they did it in the movie I saw, but I'm thinking it would be fun if she uses morse code. And who knows what was in the syringe Anezka used? Maybe it's temporary, or they can find an antidote. Still-- the heartbreak of being betrayed by her sister would be as bad as the paralysis (it's not a coma; she's awake, just paralyzed). Both Petra and Rafael seem to be magnets for drama, betrayal, and disappointment.

I don't suppose there's any chance Michael was wearing a vest on his wedding night? There was blood, wasn't there? Or that he had his badge on under his shirt and the bullet ricocheted off that and he's OK? I don't know how they could make his death comedic, so there has to be a twist. I don't like the coma or amnesia options, because it's too obvious. Also, didn't Abuela have a coma already, after being pushed down the stairs? And to think I was worried Xo and Grandma were going to walk in on Jane and Michael in bed together-- until the ice bucket was mentioned.

This made me laugh so much:

Quote

this is why I hate lingerie. If they had just gotten it on immediately, no one would have been shot.

 

Edited May 17, 2016 by possibilities

[Irlandesa]

24 minutes ago, Anisky said:

I agree with both of you, but I'm holding out hope that Jane the Virgin will actually treat what happened like the rape it is, and have characters identify it as rape and show Rafael struggling with what happened to him.

Another thing giving me hope is that Jane the Virgin is definitely feminist and the writers clearly are also very knowledgeable about feminism-- for example, the episode where they made a point of demonstrating the Bechdel Test throughout so that all their viewers would really be aware of it. That rape by deception is rape is definitely something knowledgeable feminists would aware of, and feminists are also way more likely to apply the same standards to both genders, and treat what is viewed as raping a woman the same as what is raping a man. 

I mean, this is more of a hope than a prediction. But honestly, I will be REALLY, REALLY disappointed in this show if they just gloss over it and don't point out that Rafael was raped. It would seriously lower my opinion of Jane the Virgin. But I think there's reason to hope that Jane the Virgin actually will call the trope out.

I don't have much hope that's what they'll do mainly because I think the sperm stealing, especially the second time, was really glossed over and so Jennie could create her "frankenfamily."  

Quote

For one thing, the woman Rafael thought he was sleeping with was drugged so that she's paralyzed, but aware, unable to communicate and let people know that she's herself, but knows her clearly ill-intentioned twin is pretending to be her and moving in on at least one of her loved ones. That's really hellish and dark, when you think about it; we definitely weren't supposed to find the Raf/Anezka sex cute or funny. That much is a good sign.

I'm not sure I agree with that.  The whole pan into the sex was meant to make us think it was Jane and Michael (even though Rafael and Michael have different skin tones so I don't think anyone was fooled.)  And then they focused on Anezka's happy face and the narrator saying something like "leaping lizards."  That's not exactly approval but it's not dark.  It's not "oh this is a really ugly thing that is happening."

This may be a feminist show but I do think there are times when feminist writers would do things to male characters they would never do to female characters and don't even see the double standard (as opposed to if they were trying to make a point and the double standard was intentional.)

Edited May 17, 2016 by Irlandesa

[voiceover]

Ugh.  Hoping that Raf's sperm doesn't suddenly reappear.  Can't take anymore unexpected pregnancies in this show.

[natyxg]

4 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Has anyone seen that movie about the author with locked in syndrome? I can't remember the name of it. But there are ways to help people communicate, using eye blinks.

The French one? yeah, I saw it and immediately thought of it when I saw what they did to Petra. Basically, someone would say the alphabet and he would blink to indicate the letter he wanted, and then on to the next letter. That was a pretty heartbreaking/terrifying movie, and it was based in real life which made it worse.

[Lady Calypso]

13 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm not sure I agree with that.  The whole pan into the sex was meant to make us think it was Jane and Michael (even though Rafael and Michael have different skin tones so I don't think anyone was fooled.)  And then they focused on Anezka's happy face and the narrator saying something like "leaping lizards."  That's not exactly approval but it's not dark.  It's not "oh this is a really ugly thing that is happening."

 

They may have treated this moment as less than completely serious, but I do think they were trying to make a point that this wasn't right. They just did it in a subtle way. Then again, the narrator seemed to want to get away from all the angsty, serious moments, such as Petra-as-Anezka being passed out on the floor. He literally said "Let's get back to the wedding" to avoid the angsty moments (except after that, there came two more angsty twists and another big twist so he couldn't avoid it like he wanted to). I do think that it's wrong and I hope they address the fact that Anezka just slept with Rafael while he thinks it's Petra. I hope he's grossed out by it and everyone acknowledges that it was wrong. Anezka just really shot to the creep and criminal factor, with drugging and paralyzing Petra for who knows how long, and sleeping with Rafael just because of her feelings for him while not informing him that she's not Petra. 

I don't even know what Magda's plan is by having Petra drugged and paralyzed and Anezka posing as Petra. 

[nilyank]

Another horrible part of Magda's plan which Anezka is happy to comply with, is that Petra finally appeared to be bonding with her daughters.

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Another horrible part of Magda's plan which Anezka is happy to comply with, is that Petra finally appeared to be bonding with her daughters.

That was awful. I honestly feel like this was the first genuine moment that Petra connected with her daughters. There were small moments here and there, but this is probably the first instance where I felt like she was opening up to being a mother. She got to see Elsa laugh and I think she was having an inner reflection of her motherhood, maybe even accepting herself as being able to be a good mother....and then Anezka traps her within herself. 

Also...narrator, I didn't see the #Petrafied coming until it was too late. And dare I say it, I kind of laughed. That's a perfect example of black comedy.

[natyxg]

Quote

I don't even know what Magda's plan is by having Petra drugged and paralyzed and Anezka posing as Petra. 

Maybe she thinks she can control Anezka better.

[Anisky]

36 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm not sure I agree with that.  The whole pan into the sex was meant to make us think it was Jane and Michael (even though Rafael and Michael have different skin tones so I don't think anyone was fooled.)  And then they focused on Anezka's happy face and the narrator saying something like "leaping lizards."  That's not exactly approval but it's not dark.  It's not "oh this is a really ugly thing that is happening."

This may be a feminist show but I do think there are times when feminist writers would do things to male characters they would never do to female characters and don't even see the double standard (as opposed to if they were trying to make a point and the double standard was intentional.)

True, but if they were trying to subvert the trope, that is the way they'd play it, isn't it? Have something objectively horrifying, but not point out that it's a really ugly thing. Because as Gin and Tonic pointed out, this is a trope that is almost never called out. If they want to jolt the audience, show the event without putting too much emphasis on it, so that people who don't call out that sort of thing don't even pick it out as the horror it is. That way, if they point out how it actually was rape sometime in the beginning of the third season, those people realize they watched this finale and were aware of it all through the summer, but never thought about it. That's much more of a jolt, much more effective at making such a point, than if they showed it as so horrible as it happened. This was the finale; there wasn't enough time, and a lot of those people would just be confused by why the Narrator was making *such* a big deal about it. If they play it the way I hope, I think they would lull the intended targets of this point until the fall.

That idea is a little like how on Veronica Mars (er, Spoiler Alert if you haven't seen it and are intending to?), partway through the first season, they show Aaron Echolls beating a guy to a pulp for over a minute-- a long time in a TV show-- but had the guy he beats bloody be unsympathetic, and had funny music running over the whole thing. That he's so violent is a huge clue, but most people completely missed it, because it was framed as funny. Obviously it's not an exact parallel, but good shows do sometimes present something significant in a falsely light way in order to misdirect the audience. 

On the other hand, again, I'm not saying that you're wrong, or that I particularly think that the writers will pull through on this. As I said, it's a hope, not a prediction. :) 

Edited May 17, 2016 by Anisky

[Irlandesa]

Don't get me wrong, I do think they will say it was wrong.  They said Petra stealing sperm was wrong too.  But there's "that's wrong" and "let's discuss whether Rafael feels raped" wrong.  If I were a betting women...I would be shocked if they acknowledged that. 

[LaughingOne]

How can anyone not love this show?!?!?! Seriously, that episode was just a great illustration of what make JtV so good. From the matching lavender #OTB t-shirts to Alba helping Jane put on her veil to Raf's growth in not confessing his feelings to Michael's vows in Spanish - so, so, so many touching moments. And then add in the awesomely over the top "face off" and Petra-fied hair dying moments - just a great finale all the way around.

I agree that Michael is probably going to have amnesia or a personality change or something that blows up the marriage, but there's no way that he's dead.  It's just a typical telenovela twist to reset the triangle, which is fine by me. I like both guys, but there's only so much schmoopy, domestic bliss I can take - couples falling in and out of love is just simply more entertaining to me, so bring on whatever romantic drama the next season has in store.

And most importantly... #SavePetra!

[jjj]

I just should have stopped watching about 60 seconds before the ending, because I knew it would not be good.

But #petrafied did make me laugh.

I thought that was one of the sweetest wedding ceremonies I've ever seen on television.  The tiny nod from Alba to Michael, then the Spanish, told us how many hours they had worked on that surprise.

[movingtargetgal]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

 

I

.

I feel like that mask was a step too far but it looks like Bridget Reagan is available now which is why they went that route over the most obvious and a touch more believable plastic surgery angle.  

On General Hospital they had a character pose as his obsession's "dead" ex husband by using a similar mask.  The villain was exposed when her first ex husband threw a pot of cheese fondue in his face and melted the mask. Oh the bubbling cheese fondue was on hand because they were on a ski vacation in Switzerland.

Edited May 17, 2016 by movingtargetgal