S04.E10: Munchkins

[AliShibaz]

On 2016-05-19 at 11:14 PM, maczero said:

How does Stan keep his job?  The man can't keep a secret.  He tells Phil his boss is in Thailand.  He tells his kid about Martha.  And the previews for next week make it look like Stan is sharing more work secrets with Philip.

I'm impressed that Alice has a contingency just in case the Jennings think of getting rid of her & pastor Tim.  If she's smart, she won't turn over the tape and make even more copies just in case the Jennings locate the lawyer holding the first tape.

They can always avoid great difficulty. They may need to get Paige to co-operate - which is no small feat. But right from the start, if I was the Jennings, I would just respond that Paige was suffering emotional difficulties and had made up these stories and we are thinking of committing her. A good FBI office might decide to just investigate the Jennings quietly at that point. So they may have to leave the country. But at least they would not be put into a pen for a long term for being spies. By admitting they are KGB agents, they are vulnerable to having the cuffs placed on them immediately and going to prison for life.

If I was the Jennings and I had to return to Russia (or maybe Cuba would be better), one thing I would not do is to take Paige. Let the pastor and his wife raise her if they think she is such a joy. Let them get a taste of the misery that can only be seen by having Paige as a daughter. Hateful little shit!

P.S. For those of you who may have guessed this ... yes. I had a younger sister and we never got along. I didn't even attend her wedding. That was 20 years ago and we haven't spoken since. I'm probably projecting my feelings for my sister when I watch Paige. But I cannot help that.

My guess is that is why they call it the "subconscious mind". Because we have no control over it. I know it's a terrible result. But I have never been able to control my feelings towards her. I wish you all a better outcome with your younger siblings than I had with mine - much better!

Edited May 21, 2016 by AliShibaz

[Umbelina]

I think they were going to pay Gaad if possible for secrets, if he didn't agree to that, they'd either coerce him by capturing his wife, or drug/torture him to find out anything they could from him.  He wasn't getting out of there without them.

As far as Alice, I thought she was smart, but yes, hormonal and out of control with grief and worry, and she's probably had that worry from the moment they found out they were KGB.  IF she really did make a tape and gave it to a lawyer, that was smart as hell, because it would keep them from killing her as well.  As far as the bug not picking it up?  She could have easily made the tape at the church, so they wouldn't have heard her do it, or had the brains to do it elsewhere since she knew they knew where she lived.  Or simply made it at church because there was recording equipment there for playing songs during sermons or dances.

So the tape may still exist.

[VCRTracking]

Richard Thomas of ‘The Americans’ on Agent Gaad’s Fate, John-Boy and Jimmy Carter

[scartact]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Paige is getting good at this spy stuff.  She is also showing a talent for recruiting.  Holly Taylor has been on fire as of late and although I still miss Alison Wright (Poor Martha's dad the bar scene was heartbreaking) watching Paige manage her way through her new reality is mezmerizing.

I definitely agree that Holly Taylor was great in this episode. I didn't realize till about midway through how much heavy lifting the writers gave her for this episode till the morning after Alice's confrontation when Alice begins to sob in her arms. I'm personally very sympathetic to Paige too, as much as I am almost any character in this show, though I did find myself frustrated by her at certain points. However, I do feel like it's within her character to do and say the things she does, and to have those particular questions she has for Elizabeth and Philip.

Even though a lot of people seem to look down on her for not assuming she and Henry would go with her parents, I still think it was fair for her to want to know what would happen to them in the event that her parents are uncovered, and of course she would want to know too when Henry would find out, perhaps especially because of her difficulties coping with that information.

I was also surprised by how much sympathy I did wind up feeling for Alice and I gotta say that it was definitely very smart of her to create that tape as insurance that in the event that if Pastor Tim and/or she are killed, they would still be able to do something in defense of that. I appreciate the ways the show does allow characters to be smart and true to who they are and what they would actually do, instead of very naive and unrealistic of what could happen. Of course nobody is going to always make smart decisions, but it's much better that we can see the full range of very smart and very stupid decisions people make.

2 hours ago, hellmouse said:

I'm sure she's able to sometimes, but not when it comes to describing how she really feels about what they do. So I think she lies when she needs to and believes what she's saying because it's all part of her work for the cause. 

Which is what makes it so powerful when she says yes to Gabriel at the end of the episode.

Oh man, Elizabeth. Listening to her say to Philip after their post-Alice argument with Paige that she thought she could live like this made me feel so sad for her. As much as it is easy to discuss how she is the "true believer" of the couple and that her resolve is almost always strong enough to staunch her feelings so that she may complete a mission, seeing the armor of her resolve weakening makes me think about how she will view so many of her actions and the things done to her in hindsight. Everything from her mother giving her up to the KGB to being in a strange country with a many she didn't really know or love (until twenty years later), losing her first love to a mission gone awry, putting her family in this incredibly difficult and vulnerable position. How will she regard her actions when she is forced to confront the full weight of their meaning, especially the uglier parts that weren't just about making the world a safer place?

Seeing Elizabeth trying so hard to push down her feelings and trying to mask it with cold logic and rationale, I just wonder if Gabriel hadn't given her that out, would she have suggested it at all? I already believe the answer is no, because Elizabeth always swallows what she's feeling, but the conflicted look that crosses her face at Gabe's offer was so powerful to me. It says so much about how well the show has defined these character arcs that I can easily imagine a scenario where she says no and that would still be completely within character. But as she took what felt like the longest pause ever, I kept urging her to say yes and was just so completely relieved when she did. I'm one of those people who often wants to defend Elizabeth to others because I just don't agree with interpretations of her as a cold-blooded killer, remorseless, or a sociopath (plus other things that have often been lobbed her way) and I do think to pass her off as such is to completely disregard such incredibly finely done character work from the creative team.

Finally, I really like that even though Martha is gone (at the very least from our screens for now), there are still ways in which the show and its plot still continues to deal with the ramifications of Philip pulling her out. The show doesn't just have the FBI suddenly forget the very real impact of this situation.

I also realize that by having Gaad [accidentally] killed (I was so shocked when it happened!), it escalates Stan's desires to find these agents. Of course, he couldn't possibly know how interconnected these events are with the Jennings and their various aliases, but it's just incredibly exciting to see how each side is escalating toward that fifth act conclusion (whether that comes in the next season or two) and continually upping the stakes. Stan (and Aderholt) get the weight of Martha's father asking them not to give up on her and Gaad dying in a incredibly botched mission, while Philip and Elizabeth continue to be taken to task with whether or not the work they do is truly worth it and how deep their resolve is.

Spoiler

Despite my frustrations last week about the Young Hee storyline and the lack of information we've received on it, I'm excited to see where the next episode will take us. I have a love/hate relationship with how slowly they've been going with revealing more and more details about this plot.

[Bannon]

It would be better writing for Elizabeth to tell Gabriel that Don is just a really bad blackmail target, because, ya' know, he really is, and blackmail is a fundamentally risky way to coerce people, especially when you are trying to trick an innocent target into thinking he did something that he really didn't do. I really hope they don't write Don as a moron. This show does too much of that already for E & P's targets. The bugging of Kimmy's dad is just plainly ridiculous. Make Don smart, please.

I don't know why so many people think Paige is so awful. Her parents entire life is a lie, there is no rational reason for her to have even a smidgen of her parents' ideological devotion, and if she has an IQ greater than a chipmunk's, she has to know that they are still lying to her. If you want your kids to hold you in utter contempt, look them in the eye, and lie to them, over, and over, and over, again. That'll do it.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Bannon

[jjj]

2 hours ago, mjc570 said:

Sure, you're right, but I wonder how many other people Gaad would have told specifically he was going to Thailand, since he told Stan when he was at Gaad's house, not at work with other employees around.  And, I don't think Stan would have mentioned it to any other non-FBI people,

No, that is too much of a stretch -- and Stan has not mentioned Gaad's name.  To say an un-named person is traveling in a country, and that Philip could put the pieces together from that and kill the un-named person in a specific city (who might just have fallen into the window for all they know)?  So many people had to know Gaad was in Thailand, and even where in Thailand.  Might as well suspect Agent Aderholt. 

I have to think this all hooks up somehow with another plot line -- I'd think they were there to tell Gaad to get word back to Martha's parents that she is all right -- but that does not take three Russian men.  I had such a bad feeling when Gaad's wife left him alone.  "Why are we looking at him all alone in the room?" 

Edited May 19, 2016 by jjj

[Umbelina]

Loved your post @scartact and I agree with every word, especially about Elizabeth.

Oh My Gaad
 

Quote

 

Gaad's demise in tonight's episode is truly shocking. As recently as two episodes ago, I assumed Gaad had ridden off into the Thai sunset (my favorite Yankee Candle scent, by the way), disgraced professionally but still able to live out a happy life with his wife. When he first turns up in "Munchkins," it's a pleasant surprise, an unexpected denouement to a character whose arc had supposedly wrapped. When a group of heavily accented goons show up in Gaad's hotel room with a "proposal," it seems like The Americans may have found a way to prolong his story through the end of the season. (Perhaps somehow in conjunction with Martha's Russian adventures? It seems entirely possible those hired thugs want to broker a trade with Gaad for Martha.) And then it all goes out the window — literally.

Gaad's fatal flight through the plate-glass door is both an out-of-left-field surprise and chilling in its implied repercussions. The looks on the goons' faces — and their repeated apologies to a dying Gaad — indicate that this is not how it all was supposed to go, and whomever hired them will not be pleased.

 

 

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This episode title references Stan's nickname for Gaad's replacement, whom he views as one of an army of sycophantic clones, but it could also be interpreted in the more traditional sense of the word, as a nod to The Americans' adolescent characters. Much of "Munchkins" is about children grappling with their perceptions of their parents and what they do. Granted, Paige has been doing that for some time now, but this episode forces her to face the implications of her parents' work. She's joined in teen angst by Matthew Beeman, of all people, who's distressed — or impressed? — by Stan's stories about Martha and her dad ("It's intense, you know?"), and our old pal Kimmy, who unloads on "James" after her dad tells her he works for the CIA, not the State Department. 

I hadn't thought about a trade deal with Gaad, and I like this idea for the title of the episode more than Stan's which really didn't make sense to me.

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Loved your post @scartact and I agree with every word, especially about Elizabeth.

Oh My Gaad
 

 

I hadn't thought about a trade deal with Gaad, and I like this idea for the title of the episode more than Stan's which really didn't make sense to me.

The goons who killed Gaad were clearly KGB, given Arkady's remarks later in the episode. They wouldn't be trading Martha. Martha is valuable to them. My best guess is that they were going to bribe Gaad for a debriefing, or kidnap him if he refused. The kidnapping thing is a bit far-fetched.

[Umbelina]

Yes, I already said that.

Quote

Let's start in Thailand, where Gaad is dead. Richard Thomas was likely going to be off the show either way — it badly undercuts the Martha defection storyline if Gaad somehow remains involved in Stan's work, even as a civilian offering free advice — and this way, he goes out with a bang, and a crash, and a cut on his midsection that no amount of aftershave would do anything for. We don't know exactly what those KGB agents wanted to discuss with him(*), other than that Arkady (devastated afterwards to learn of his former counterpart's death under the stupidest of circumstances) knew about the operation, but whether they were there to abduct Gaad or simply recruit him as an asset, this could (assuming the US figures out what happened in that room) lead to blowback from the FBI that will make the reaction to Chris Amador's murder look like a mild temper tantrum. When last Gaad and Stan were in a room together, the former boss warned his former agent to stop forgetting that people like Oleg are his enemy. Knowing what we know about how Stan Beeman responds to the death of a colleague in Soviet hands, I wouldn't be shocked to see him go full-on Terminator before the end of the season.

On 'The Americans,' Paige has had just about enough of this spy nonsense

Quote

The episode opens with the kind of cross-cut sequence the show doesn't do very often, particularly in its pre-credit sequences: Philip telling Paige a story about his childhood in Tobolsk, and the extreme lengths his own mother took to protect him, alternating with glimpses of Elizabeth at an uncomfortable dinner with Young-Hee's family. They say all men marry their mothers and all women marry their fathers, and Philip has wound up with a woman even more ruthless about protecting her family (and her country) than his own mama(**). In that context, it's again hard to blame Alice for going to extremes regarding the very real threat posed to her own family.

(**) Elizabeth's father, meanwhile, was a deserter during the war, and her husband would defect in a heartbeat if she ever gave him the okay to do it.

Quote

(***) From my notes during that scene (with apologies to Mark Ronson and Bruno Mars): "Gabriel is smoother than a fresh jar of Skippy." As with the seven-month vacation, this is him looking after his top asset, but it's also him getting her to trust him more, especially since it's a request the Centre is all but certain to deny.

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Umbelina

[Bannon]

5 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Yes, I already said that.

On 'The Americans,' Paige has had just about enough of this spy nonsense

 

Yeah, I should have quoted some other posts which were speculating on the identities of the goons, and trading for Martha. Even bribing Gaad is problematic. He might just take the cash, spew a bunch of nonsense, and report back to the FBI what happened.

[Umbelina]

Hopefully we will find out what the plan was, they had to know bribing the former head of the DC branch of the FBI wasn't going to be bribed.  Maybe they had something else to use, or were about to abduct his wife, but even then, I don't think he would have ever willingly talked.  It's possible they were just trying to get him out of there quietly, but he'd know the next step would be truth serum and torture if needed.

Still, I hope they wrap it up, and I think they will, since they involved Arkady in the scheme.  Maybe he'll tell Oleg, and Stan will get the information from Oleg somehow. 

Walls are closing in, and as that other great review said, to the FBI, this murder will make Stan a dog with a bone.  Additionally, won't the CIA get involved, since it happened off American soil?  It would be nice to see the CIA step into the show, and this is one way for that to logically happen.  In general, the CIA and FBI didn't play well together, but in this case?  They probably would.

I love reading these reviews, and the PTV recap is wonderful as well, but somehow, they always catch at least one thing I kind of realized but it didn't quite click.  I didn't like much of this review but it did catch something very important that I haven't read elsewhere.This paragraph did that for me in this

The Americans "Munchkins" Review: Secrets Hurt Like a Glass Shard in the Stomach

Quote

Part of being initiated into adulthood is also learning how to share mature burdens, like we're seeing with Paige. When she visited Alice, the teenager collapsed in tears, but then soon found the pastor's wife in need of even more tearful comfort right back. Then Paige did that thing that characters do where her face showed that she knew more than she was letting on, but had to stay in the moment to be a certain person to Alice. Sympathy, or just smart espionage groundwork? Both? Whether she likes it or not Paige has become dependable enough to be seen as someone to lean on, both in terms of her real family and her church family. With her secret though, the only people Paige can seek comfort in are the same ones who have put her in such a lonely position. Which is tough because those are the same people you'd kind of be pissed at. 

Somehow it was only after reading this that I realized Paige has NO ONE to be completely honest with.  Maybe that is the real reason she asked her parents when they were going to tell Henry?  If at least she had one safe place to talk things out, it would be such a relief to her.  I agree with everyone here who said the actress was amazing tonight.  A+

Edited May 19, 2016 by Umbelina

[Bannon]

23 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Hopefully we will find out what the plan was, they had to know bribing the former head of the DC branch of the FBI wasn't going to be bribed.  Maybe they had something else to use, or were about to abduct his wife, but even then, I don't think he would have ever willingly talked.  It's possible they were just trying to get him out of there quietly, but he'd know the next step would be truth serum and torture if needed.

Still, I hope they wrap it up, and I think they will, since they involved Arkady in the scheme.  Maybe he'll tell Oleg, and Stan will get the information from Oleg somehow. 

Walls are closing in, and as that other great review said, to the FBI, this murder will make Stan a dog with a bone.  Additionally, won't the CIA get involved, since it happened off American soil?  It would be nice to see the CIA step into the show, and this is one way for that to logically happen.  In general, the CIA and FBI didn't play well together, but in this case?  They probably would.

I love reading these reviews, and the PTV recap is wonderful as well, but somehow, they always catch at least one thing I kind of realized but it didn't quite click.  I didn't like much of this review but it did catch something very important that I haven't read elsewhere.This paragraph did that for me in this

The Americans "Munchkins" Review: Secrets Hurt Like a Glass Shard in the Stomach

Somehow it was only after reading this that I realized Paige has NO ONE to be completely honest with.  Maybe that is the real reason she asked her parents when they were going to tell Henry?  If at least she had one safe place to talk things out, it would be such a relief to her.  I agree with everyone here who said the actress was amazing tonight.  A+

That's why I don't the anger so many viewers have at the character of Paige. She's a teenager whose parents lie to her all the time, while spewing a bunch of crap about how the people within the family have to be truthful with one another. Of course, her parents demand that she lie to everybody else in her life. Whenever things get tense, Mom screams at Paige that Paige is the source of all woes, ignoring the fact that it was Murderin' Ma who roped Paige into this conspiracy. This is like having the two worst alcoholic parents on earth.

[millennium]

Maybe the Russian goons were just there to feel him out as a potential double-agent.   After all, they knew who he was and probably that he got a raw deal and was maybe a disgruntled ex-employee -- in other words, ripe for turning.   I'm not sure any strong-arming was necessarily in the works.

I am very sorry to lose this character.

[Conan Troutman]

5 hours ago, gwhh said:

I don't think Alice made a tape. Sounds to complicated for a preacher wife. Plus the office bugs/wire tap did not pick up anything about it. 

You'd think she called their lawyer, if they have one at all - what use would they have for one? So maybe she did make a tape, but gave it to a friend and simply invented the lawyer part. Or there was no tape at all and it was a total bluff she didn't think Philip and Elizabeth would ever risk to call.
On the other hand, since she believed Philip and Elizabeth had him abducted/killed, it wouldn't be a stretch for her to think her phone might be tapped, so absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. 

 

What information could Gaad possibly have, now that he's retired? Some details about internal stuff that Martha didn't know? Names of his superiors? A list of potential double agents they were circling in on? 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Conan Troutman

[Ina123]

My interpretation of the Thailand scene was that Gaad knew they were there to interrogate him and he knew the possibility of giving up secrets when tortured. I saw his mad dash to the glass door as suicide.

I thought the scene with Henry bouncing the ball against the garage was so American family. You know they all wanted to scream at him to stop but it provided a way for them to know where he was while they talked spy craft. It reminded me that when we were small a neighbor complained because our swing set squeaked so badly it drove him crazy. My mom always said it was comforting to her because then she knew what we were up to.

[rehoboth]

I was so shocked at Gaad's death but that scene was probably better to witness than him being tortured for information by the KGB.  A 'regular' citizen might stop to wonder what a 'conversation' with those thugs would lead to but Gaad knew from the moment he saw them what it would lead to hence his flight to the roof.

My first thought went to Stan telling Phillip about Gaad's vacation plans.  Did we see Phillip pass that onto Gabriel?  Was this done to get Stan thinking about who would know Gaad's travel plans? 

[DrSpaceman73]

I think Gabriel is being too easy on Elizabeth and Phillip now.  Now simply because Elizabeth does not want to lose a friend she has become too close to who is supposed to be a target they are going to change the mission?  Thats a pretty weak excuse

Also Phillip/Elizabeth have basically become like Paige's handler now.  They are to her what Gabriel is to them. 

Not sure what the plan was with Gaad but sorry to se him die like that.  I knew when they brought him up in the previews it could not be good

I can't believe Henry would not here anything with the pastor's wife screaming like that in their house. 

So did Paige figure out that the Martha was connected to Phillip and Elizabeth? 

[DrSpaceman73]

7 hours ago, Bama said:

Heh.  Philip is Kimmie's Pastor Tim.

But with pot instead of Jesus.

I was wondering if she was going to tell him she knew who he was, or that he is not who he claims to be, more accurately. 

But yes, Kimmie is in Elizabeth's position now.  You'd think she would be more careful about who is in the house.  ANd you wonder why that conversation came up between her dad and Kimmie. 

[Conan Troutman]

3 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

So did Paige figure out that the Martha was connected to Phillip and Elizabeth? 

I don't know if she figured it out already, but I'm sure she'll connect the dots eventually once she gets a bit time to think about it (it was pretty hectic day after all). Maybe she tells Philip? He did want to contact Martha's dad, so a warning from Paige that Stan talked with him could be helpful. 

[Chaos Theory]

Of course Paige is being graded on a scale.  This is not a show that's entire premise is putting one over on your parents.  Plus Paige from the start has been written as a honest person. When she gets told a big secret she almost immediately tells an adult so she can process it.  It is only this season that she is learning the art of deception and she is already adding detailed "mom says hi." And making intelligent observations "asking about the blackmail tape now would be suspicious."  That is hardly entry level lying.

 

of course there are better liars like her parents and she still fails to notice half truths coming from them but I still maintain she has gotten better not that she is the best liar on the show.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Midnight Cheese]

5 hours ago, Bannon said:

It would be better writing for Elizabeth to tell Gabriel that Don is just a really bad blackmail target, because, ya' know, he really is, and blackmail is a fundamentally risky way to coerce people, especially when you are trying to trick an innocent target into thinking he did something that he really didn't do. I really hope they don't write Don as a moron. This show does too much of that already for E & P's targets. The bugging of Kimmy's dad is just plainly ridiculous. Make Don smart, please.

I don't know why so many people think Paige is so awful. Her parents entire life is a lie, there is no rational reason for her to have even a smidgen of her parents' ideological devotion, and if she has an IQ greater than a chipmunk's, she has to know that they are still lying to her. If you want your kids to hold you in utter contempt, look them in the eye, and lie to them, over, and over, and over, again. That'll do it.

Thank you!  The writers and showrunners have also, for the limited amount that it's worth, said repeatedly, consistently, since the beginning to the current season that they see Paige as a great kid, innocent, in a terrible position - serious, studious, looking for more, aging into seeing her parents more as people, and picking up on the strangeness of their family life.  I find the reactions to her predicament completely bizarre and there is a constant 'explain your position' perspective (upvoted, natch) if posters have a decidedly different take on Elizabeth and Paige in particular.  We all have our perspectives.  By mine, Paige is a relatively sheltered American teen living in the age of the perception of the exact existential threat P&E have - from the diametrically opposed philosophy, and she was lied to constantly her entire life and is now treated as if she must lie to her brother or else also have the fragmentation of her family on her head -- there is so much insanity and unfairness that it blows me away that Paige is at fault, a jerk, a brat for being like, uh, did you kill my friend?  What's going on?

The slow shots showing Gaad bleeding to death were merciless.   What a horror.  Nothing's clean here.  My favorite character is Arkady and I am worried big-time about him. 

[shura]

7 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Wow, Dr. Taub is now in charge of the DC office of the FBI!

Or at least in charge of margins. He must have done a stint as a grade-school teacher between this and Princeton-Plainsboro.

1 hour ago, Conan Troutman said:

I don't know if she figured it out already, but I'm sure she'll connect the dots eventually once she gets a bit time to think about it (it was pretty hectic day after all). Maybe she tells Philip? He did want to contact Martha's dad, so a warning from Paige that Stan talked with him could be helpful. 

I don't know if Paige can reasonably connect Martha to her family. What dots can she connect? She doesn't know anything about this. She could, of course, start thinking that her parents are responsible for absolutely everything suspicious, Soviet- or FBI-related, she doesn't need a solid reason for that, but that's not really figuring anything out. That's just paranoia.

[stagmania]

I think Paige is a perfectly constructed character. Her reactions are so authentically adolescent that there is often a knee jerk frustration response from adults, but when you take a step back and really consider her age and maturity level against the situation she's been put in, especially with the knowledge that Phillip and Elizabeth absolutely do lie to her about the truth of their jobs, she's entirely sympathetic. She's a thoughtful kid who is too smart not to consider the more sinister possibilities of what her parents do, and she's intuitive enough to know they're still hiding things. At the same time, she's still naive and sheltered enough that the full ramifications of them being discovered just won't compute in her brain. 

The final scene with Elizabeth and Gabriel was powerful. I could feel the weight of the decision for Elizabeth-the thought of asking for help or requesting an out from a mission is huge for her. It kind of breaks my heart that she found the strength to do that, but it won't matter in the end. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I can muster little sympathy for Paige.  For a smart girl, she makes horrible decisions, like taking Matthew to her church.  Come on? And as others has stated, why put Henry in misery with the spy secret? What if he tells his buddies or Matthew?  She seems to have no survival skills. Her parents CAN'T be honest with her.  She needs much more monitoring by her parents.  She's STILL a huge liability, EVEN though she knows the risks, she keeps creating leaks. 

Does anyone know if Gaad was running to the glass door to escape the men or was it a suicide mission, since he knew they were KGB?  I think that Gaad could have still been useful to the KGB.  He was still in contract with Stan and they could have continued to meet and Gaad could have gotten current intel from Stan....and then pass it to the KGB.  They didn't realize that Gaad was not a good target though.

Alice lied about contacting a lawyer, since their house is bugged and there was no phone call to one.  Still, she and Pastor Tim are loose cannons.  They have to be dealt with eventually.   Paige won't like that.  

Did the scene with Martha's dad seem odd to anyone else?  Perhaps, I have forgotten when he was at Martha's wedding, but it seemed from the phone calls that Martha's dad was more elderly, frail, and had a little dementia.  That's the the way Martha addressed it when she called home.  You know, "Don't wake daddy." I thought he was a little senile. Even his voice was rather sickly.  He sounded weak and pitiful as he called Martha his little girl.  That's not the same man we saw having a cocktail with Stan.  Now, he's full of vigor?  Hmmm....And he just happened to be in town?  Too contrived for me. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by SunnyBeBe

[Bannon]

10 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

They can't make Stan more of a moron than he already is, the dude doesn't even know that his kid is drinking his beer?  There are only two people in that house.  If Stan isn't drinking it, it is obvious that his kid is.  Stan has no awareness when it comes to anything that is going on around him.

This show has been on the air for all these years, and I don't think I have seen any competent "Americans" on it yet.

By making that threat about the tape, the pastor's wife made her entire family a target.  They are going to have to be dealt with sooner or later, whether a tape exists or not. 

I am still finding it very difficult to believe that Elizabeth is turning into a caring human being.  It doesn't seem to be in her DNA, and the writers seem to have pulled that out of nothing but thin air.  It wasn't all that long ago when she killed her other friend.

My frustration with this show, which I have liked for the most part, is that it could have been so much more. I think they were afraid of making it to slow-moving, so they had to have E & P running ops at breakneck speed, which required the targets to be, generally, idiots. Only the Martha op was allowed to breathe a little, giving the target some nuance and depth. I bought it because they took the time to show how deperately lonely Martha was, and desperately lonely people do very irrational things.  I've never understood how the character of Stan was developed; a guy who was able to operate, uber-competently, undercover, in the Aryan Brotherhood for years, but becomes a blundering blabbermouth once stationed in Washington D.C., to the point where his target plays him like fiddle, because she's gorgeous, and Mr. Undercover Skinhead is lonely. Huh?

In any case, I always say all is forgiven with a well written resolution. If Gaad's  murder can act as a catalyst to get Stan to do his job better, good. It appears that Oleg has been made generally aware of the bioweapons op being run now, and Stan is supposed to be trying to manipulate Oleg. Maybe there is an intersection  between the Gaad murder, which Stan or Arkady could make Oleg aware of, and Oleg's newly obtained knowledge of the bioweapons op, which can present some intresting scenarios. The previews hold out the possibility that Don isn't going to be a complete moron, so there is reason for optimism  that the writers will not make a mess of it.

[Tetraneutron]

10 hours ago, AliShibaz said:

"long ago indescretion"? They're talking about Paige telling PT that her parents are spies for the USSR?

How does that rate being called "long ago". Even given the way time passes in this series, that happened just a few months ago. They make it sound as if it was something that happened several years ago.

There was the time jump so this happened about 8 months ago in show time. That's a whole school year. And I think they're showing the tension really well. Elizabeth is worried about Paige telling people, and now Paige gets how scary that is in terms of personal safety. But then Elizabeth gets so mad that Paige could possibly believe the murder people who might reveal their secrets, which I honestly laughed at. And it's funny that Elizabeth feels so guilty and horrible about hurting YoungHee's marriage but not about lying to or manipulating Paige. Or putting her kids in danger. YoungHee is the thing that's breaking Elizabeth. 

10 hours ago, benteen said:

It's not a surprise that Matthew is likely to be drawn into Paige's church.

I don't think he's drawn into the church. I think he wants to get into Paige's pants, which means there's one teenager on this show who acts like a normal teenager. 

 

10 hours ago, hellmouse said:

IAnd as for Paige, ITA. I thought the whole Alice with a tape thing was going to bring Paige into a better understanding with her parents. Instead, it made her even more of a teenager (although I loved her line about how you can't be Russian spies in Russia), who thinks she knows way more than she does. Why on earth does she think they should tell Henry? Because it's gone so well with telling her? It seems like it's one step forward two steps back with Paige. 

The point is that Paige is a normal teenager who needs to trust her parents. She was saying "How can you lie to my brother about something so important, about the very fact of who you are and what you believe." It was showing that, despite everything, and her maturity in this episode and the way she handled Alice, who could blow the whole thing, she's still a teenager who needs her parents. Just like Kimmy, in this episode, needs adults to be adults. And Matthew. I don't know why people are expecting Paige to just get on board with her parents and start being a Russian spy. Finding out your parents have lied to you your whole like (and Elizabeth is still doing it) is going to have consequences for the family relationship. It would be weird if Paige WERE like "OK, I guess we're moving to Russia for the cause. Call me Natalya!"

[FormerMod-a1]

I thought Gaad was trying to escape, even if he knew it was useless. But, when he ran, one of the Russians tackled him and sent him crashing through the glass door.

[sistermagpie]

8 hours ago, madam magpie said:

I was a latchkey kid from the age of 10 and was raised by a single parent who worked two jobs, so the fact that the kids are left alone and unsupervised so often on this show looks totally normal to me. My mother did stuff with me on some weekends and holidays, but she didn't make a concerted effort to spend time with me. She was too busy. 

My mother didn't even have a job and I feel more like Henry than Paige when I think of my own life. If I was at home I was more than likely doing my own thing, talking to my parents if they happened to be there, or often at somebody else's house. Frankly, I find it odd not that Matthew is alone but that he isn't just out with his friends when Stan goes out. He lived in Fall's Church long enough to already know people.

8 hours ago, Umbelina said:

 

Wow, Dr. Taub is now in charge of the DC office of the FBI!

 

I saw on his Twitter that he's also on another show....in Russia. 

8 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

I don't believe that's all of Philip's story. I'm guessing the father might have been stepfather, and almost definitely a drunken beater as a lot have said. It was amazing what even the strongest women put up with in post-war Russia just to have a man.

Yeah, I was amazed that he had a father even until 6 (was he agreeing that that story was real, that he died at 6?). 

8 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

I liked how now that Paige doesn't have time for Matthew, he's completely into her. I didn't care for what she said to her parents but I like that she doesn't seem to be looking at Alice and Tim as the White to Phil and Liz's Black anymore, as the episode ended.

Interesting too that her suggestion of not bringing up the tape immediately made sense especially because Paige had agreed with Alice throughout the episode, mostly unaware of the danger to herself. Like when she said, "What if she sends the tape?" and then was shocked that this meant her life was over. She seemed to have the same pov as Alice that this had "nothing to do with Paige." Another kid would have been openly terrified about the tape the whole time. Paige was offended at Philip trying the logical route to show her they didn't kill Pastor Tim by pointing out it was a disaster for them.

7 hours ago, scartact said:

I was also surprised by how much sympathy I did wind up feeling for Alice and I gotta say that it was definitely very smart of her to create that tape as insurance that in the event that if Pastor Tim and/or she are killed, they would still be able to do something in defense of that.

I think this episode proved that she was the smart one of the couple (no surprise). Even if her thinking that P&E were responsible for what happened to her husband was in its own way  denial. She couldn't deal with the fact that dropping yourself in a dangerous country means you might get killed so it could only be a conspiracy. But still making that tape etc. showed she had some clue who she was dealing with. Meanwhile her husband, fittingly, has caused everyone tons of worry by wandering into the jungle with some other Missionary and no guide and not enough gas and getting lost. No doubt he'll be bragging about it next week.

5 hours ago, Bannon said:

She's a teenager whose parents lie to her all the time, while spewing a bunch of crap about how the people within the family have to be truthful with one another.

I don't think peoples' reactions to characters always follow the same lines. For some people Paige being a teenager whose parents lie to her is the most important thing, for others that she ratted on her family, to others that she's whiny or whatever. She can be all those things. 

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Also Phillip/Elizabeth have basically become like Paige's handler now.  They are to her what Gabriel is to them. 

There's elements of handling in parenting and elements of parenting in handling. 

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

So did Paige figure out that the Martha was connected to Phillip and Elizabeth? 

I don't see what connection she could have made. A secretary in Stan's office is a spy. I think what Paige was reacting to was that she "disappeared" like Pastor Tim did. But more to the point, her parents might. 

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

 It is only this season that she is learning the art of deception and she is already adding detailed "mom says hi." And making intelligent observations "asking about the blackmail tape now would be suspicious."  That is hardly entry level lying.

It's pretty average for teenagers, though. Lying is an everyday human activity. I'm not saying she hasn't gotten better (though it's not like she didn't lie easily enough back when it was about her own business with less on the line) but "Mom sends her love" is pretty entry level.

18 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

She seems to have no survival skills. Her parents CAN'T be honest with her.  She needs much more monitoring by her parents.  She's STILL a huge liability, EVEN though she knows the risks, she keeps creating leaks. 

Yeah, that's the thing. It's not that Paige is a terrible person. Or even a bad person. Annoying to some. She didn't commit a bad act by telling her Pastor as if her parents were these innocent people she made up a story about to hurt them. But at the same time everything she does makes it really hard for her parents to give her what she wants--stability, a safe view of the world, honesty. When you want to know your parents, you're just not guaranteed they're going to be who you want them to be. It's not Paige's job to protect them--she'd be justified in turning them in if she decided to do that. But what she's more often doing is trying to have it all ways at once, which just makes her dangerous. Like she does something with practical consequences and would rather talk about whose fault it is.

Which brings me to something this ep made me think about, when Philip was talking about his father. Although I don't think this show has any intentional message about class, class often seems to play a part in characters they create (as it should). I get the feeling that Philip and Elizabeth are way more comfortable dealing with working class/under class Americans. Although they're still foreign, I think they get each other, and those characters often seem to get them in ways others don't. I mean, the FBI gets them on the espionage level the way other characters don't (like Joyce, Robert's wife). 

But people like Viola or the truck driver or even maybe the factory worker, for instance, don't have the expectation of safety that people like the Tims have. Or remember the ep--I think it was when they were tracking down the German assassin--where they go to the house of the guy who sells firearms. Elizabeth is talking to him when the guy's daughter who's like 10, levels a rifle at her (which Philip grabs away). That was something I really thought about when Philip was talking about his past. When speaking about their mother both he and Elizabeth immediately characterize them with a story of when they stood up for them (Elizabeth's mom yelling at the neighbors to be quiet, Philip's getting his full paycheck). They see themselves in a world where people can be hurt, oppressed or killed at any moment and there's nobody to go to to demand things be made right. Philip's not shocked by a child with a rifle. He probably used to be one.

One more on that note--Philip had a job making rakes as a kid? Wonder if he was thinking of that during Kimmie's big rake/little rake story.

[Gella]

  10 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Tobolsk. He said it in S2 as well. So what do we think "he was tired" was a euphemism for? Drinking himself to death? Beating his son? Both?

Re: Philip's dad - I vote for both. Beating his son and wife and drinking himself to death. Good times.

That's a bit of a stereotype. Domestic violence was not really a widespread problem at that time. Especially with the way Phillip described his mother. Drinking though -- definitely.

[jrlr]

I don't like Paige as a character mainly because I just don't like the actress (maybe if they did something about her eyebrows and put her in jeans like a normal 80s teenager she'd be easier to take), but I do understand her teenage impulsiveness.  That includes telling Pastor Groovyhair and his 1950's era wife about her parents, and it includes her taking Matthew into the church with her.  Paige's rebellion seems perfectly understandable to me - I came from an ultra-left home and knew from an early age that the only thing I could do to REALLY upset my parents would be to convert to Christianity and marry a Republican (I did neither), so I get Paige turning to tradition and religion to fill some void her parents don't or can't fulfill.  

I thought her last suggestion about waiting to take the tape was brilliant and it indicated that she is already becoming a spy-ette, if only to save her family or make up for the mess she created.  I'm still shaking my head over poor Gaad's demise, but what a great scene.  

And what was the deal with Kimmie telling Phillip that she discovered her dad is CIA, not State Department?  

[topanga]

2 minutes ago, jrlr said:

I don't like Paige as a character mainly because I just don't like the actress (maybe if they did something about her eyebrows and put her in jeans like a normal 80s teenager she'd be easier to take), but I do understand her teenage impulsiveness.  That includes telling Pastor Groovyhair and his 1950's era wife about her parents, and it includes her taking Matthew into the church with her.  Paige's rebellion seems perfectly understandable to me - I came from an ultra-left home and knew from an early age that the only thing I could do to REALLY upset my parents would be to convert to Christianity and marry a Republican (I did neither), so I get Paige turning to tradition and religion to fill some void her parents don't or can't fulfill.  

I thought her last suggestion about waiting to take the tape was brilliant and it indicated that she is already becoming a spy-ette, if only to save her family or make up for the mess she created.  I'm still shaking my head over poor Gaad's demise, but what a great scene.  

And what was the deal with Kimmie telling Phillip that she discovered her dad is CIA, not State Department?  

That's so funny about Paige (Holly Taylor, that is). Ironically, as I watched the episode last night, I was thinking about how striking the young actress is--in a good way. I like her eyebrows, her doe-like eyes, and even her turned-up nose. She's pretty but also has a very distinct look.

I think Paige is still worried about her parents harming people--especially Alice. I don't blame her. I was ready to reach through the TV and harm that impulsive and hysterical woman myself. And I usually don't advocate violence--especially not against pregnant women. 

I wonder if Gabriel has been getting more privileged information from the tapes than he would have if the dad were just State Department/

[snarktini]

3 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I was wondering if she was going to tell him she knew who he was, or that he is not who he claims to be, more accurately. 

 

Her casual manner didn't support the theory, but I wondered the same. "It explains so much in my life... like why a middle aged guy shows so much interest in me, coming to my house with pot every week, and doesn't want sex." Maybe she'll still figure it out?

[sistermagpie]

19 minutes ago, jrlr said:

And what was the deal with Kimmie telling Phillip that she discovered her dad is CIA, not State Department?  

Just that Kimmie's dad had had "the talk" with her like Philip and Elizabeth did. And just like Paige (and Matthew, really) she told.

11 minutes ago, snarktini said:

Her casual manner didn't support the theory, but I wondered the same. "It explains so much in my life... like why a middle aged guy shows so much interest in me, coming to my house with pot every week, and doesn't want sex." Maybe she'll still figure it out?

I don't think she was referring to Jim at all in saying it made her life make sense.

21 minutes ago, jrlr said:

maybe if they did something about her eyebrows and put her in jeans like a normal 80s teenager she'd be easier to take),

I've been wondering about her ponytails post time-jump. Does Paige just want to have 70s hair? She already has the long hair without any 80s haircut, but that low ponytail where her hair goes over her ears in an almost Amish-way seems very 70s to me. Originally she was obviously copying Elizabeth even down to that fetish for having her hair over one shoulder, but I wonder about this look. I don't mean they have to go full cliche high side-ponytail or anything, but that over the ears thing surprises me.

[SunnyBeBe]

It was my impression that Philip knew all along what Kimmie's daddy really did. That's why he was getting intel from him. 

I sensed that Philip seemed disappointed that Kimmie confided in him about it in an attempt to encourage her to tell no one else AND to not her her dad know that she told him.  The less he knows about "James" the better. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by SunnyBeBe

[snarktini]

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't think she was referring to Jim at all in saying it made her life make sense.

23 minutes ago, jrlr said:

Agreed, she did not go there at all. But when she first started talking, I wondered if she might.

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It was my impression that Philip knew all along what Kimmie's daddy really did. That's why he was getting intel from him. 

Of course! They first targeted another member of the group and got to Kimmie through him. Her dad is the head of the Afghan CIA group and that's why Philip's there.

 

5 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

The less he knows about "James" the better. 

I think they both understand that Kimmie's dad must never know of Jim's existence at all. He doesn't know this dude exists.

[attica]

Paige is soooo growing up to be Homeland's Miranda Otto, I just know it.  I was delighted they showed how similar she is to Elizabeth with their joint reaction to Henry and the garage door v. tennis ball.

I calculated the odds of Elizabeth saying 'yes' at the end at even money. Could have gone either way. I was rooting for her to say yes, but it wouldn't have surprised me if she hadn't.

[SunnyBeBe]

My concern with Paige taking Matthew to the church is that if Pastor Tim and Alice know that Matthew's dad is an FBI agent, who is friends with the Jennings family, Pastor Tim and Alice will assume that they are spying on Stan and that he is their mark.  They have no way to know that that is NOT the case. I mean, it is rather unbelievable that they don't actively seek info about and from him, but the only thing that comes from him is stuff that falls in their laps.  lol

[scartact]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I think this episode proved that she was the smart one of the couple (no surprise). Even if her thinking that P&E were responsible for what happened to her husband was in its own way  denial. She couldn't deal with the fact that dropping yourself in a dangerous country means you might get killed so it could only be a conspiracy. But still making that tape etc. showed she had some clue who she was dealing with. Meanwhile her husband, fittingly, has caused everyone tons of worry by wandering into the jungle with some other Missionary and no guide and not enough gas and getting lost. No doubt he'll be bragging about it next week.

I try to be as very fair as possible to all the characters, especially because I do believe the creative team has done a lot of legwork to create very grey and complex characters. I guess just as Nina brings up all the way back in season one, I often read the greys of the show and resist the urge to make it black and white.

 

So, on some level, I'm like, of course Pastor Groovyhair means well and wants to believe the best in people, but on another level there's always just one way or another he makes me so irritated! He leaves his very pregnant wife to go to Ethiopia, and then when he and his buddy run out of gas, stupidly wanders through dangerous territory and everyone believes he's missing and has very good reason to worry about his safety. Ugh, c'mon Groovyhair, get your shit together! And I know he may have had no choice and was probably in just as much danger sitting there too, I just have such an irrationally ugh reaction to him. Just this along with his, "Let's debrief and see where we're all at once I'm back," in the last episode just irk me.

 

Basically, I don't mean to be a Groovyhater, but I can't help it.

[Corgi-ears]

"You can't be Russian spies in Russia." Hee. Yes, Paige; also, in China, Chinese food is just called "food."

[SunnyBeBe]

I hope that Stan doesn't get paranoid.  I mean, it is understandable. His office has suffered some serious misfortunes. Gene bites the dust, then Martha disappears, now Gaad is dead.....PLUS Nina, someone who he loved was killed.  He might start taking this personally. 

[hellmouse]

20 minutes ago, scartact said:

I try to be as very fair as possible to all the characters, especially because I do believe the creative team has done a lot of legwork to create very grey and complex characters. I guess just as Nina brings up all the way back in season one, I often read the greys of the show and resist the urge to make it black and white.

 

So, on some level, I'm like, of course Pastor Groovyhair means well and wants to believe the best in people, but on another level there's always just one way or another he makes me so irritated! He leaves his very pregnant wife to go to Ethiopia, and then when he and his buddy run out of gas, stupidly wanders through dangerous territory and everyone believes he's missing and has very good reason to worry about his safety. Ugh, c'mon Groovyhair, get your shit together! And I know he may have had no choice and was probably in just as much danger sitting there too, I just have such an irrationally ugh reaction to him. Just this along with his, "Let's debrief and see where we're all at once I'm back," in the last episode just irk me.

 

Basically, I don't mean to be a Groovyhater, but I can't help it.

I am a Groovyhater too. I know he means well, and evidently he is the one who wants to give the Jennings family a chance vs Alice who wanted to turn them in right away. But I get so irritated by him. He is clueless. It's crazy that on a show with people literally being stuffed into suitcases, the one who most often makes me mad is Pastor Tim. It's Pastor Tim's world and the Jennings family just lives in it. 

The show has masterfully made me feel probably exactly how Philip and Elizabeth feel. This guy is so annoying, but they can't just kill him. They need to stay on his good side, which means indulging his clueless well meaning grandiosity. And I want the Jennings family to survive, so I have to hope that he won't screw it up for them. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by hellmouse

[sistermagpie]

44 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

My concern with Paige taking Matthew to the church is that if Pastor Tim and Alice know that Matthew's dad is an FBI agent, who is friends with the Jennings family, Pastor Tim and Alice will assume that they are spying on Stan and that he is their mark.

Spoiler

Looks like that's happening anyway--the "Dinner for Seven" of next week's title seems to be the Tims having dinner with the Jennings...and Stan.

That's a spoiler for the preview for next week above.

20 minutes ago, scartact said:

And I know he may have had no choice and was probably in just as much danger sitting there too, I just have such an irrationally ugh reaction to him. Just this along with his, "Let's debrief and see where we're all at once I'm back," in the last episode just irk me.

Frankly, he was irresponsible to decide to hope over to the next village with what sounds like another missionary too. Like not even a local guide. Because he can't just stick to the program.

16 minutes ago, Corgi-ears said:

 

"You can't be Russian spies in Russia." Hee. Yes, Paige; also, in China, Chinese food is just called "food."

 

LOL!

3 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

I know he means well, and evidently he is the one who wants to give the Jennings family a chance vs Alice who wanted to turn them in right away.

I don't even give him that much. I think he'd hate having to turn the Jennings over to the FBI when he could be in charge of their family. If they get sent away and they want to adopt Paige she can probably expect to spend a lot of time giving testimony about how Pastor Tim saved her and brought her to Jesus even if he couldn't help her misguided atheist parents.

Still, like I said above, you can see that ultimately Pastor Tim and Alice are "her people" in ways her parents aren't. Not just because of being American, but because of the bubble of entitlement and safety they live in.

5 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

This guy is so annoying, but they can't just kill him. They need to stay on his good side, which means indulging his clueless well meaning grandiosity. And I want the Jennings family to survive, so I have to hope that he won't screw it up for them. 

Yeah, and this is also part of my reactions to Paige. When she handed the whole family into the hands of the Tims she not only put them in danger she sentenced me to having them at the Centre of the family just like Tim wanted them to be. It seems she rarely if ever makes decisions based on pure survival, because she believes she's fine. Except for isolated moments of panic (much like Alice's here) that she can then forget.

Though also it really does sound like at times the showrunners think he's being normal when he's not. Like there's actually a lot to judge him for as a pastor. How would the rest of the congregation feel if they know everything they confided in him as a spiritual advisor probably also went to his wife with whom they just talked at the potluck without knowing she knew?

[shura]

14 minutes ago, scartact said:

So, on some level, I'm like, of course Pastor Groovyhair means well and wants to believe the best in people, but on another level there's always just one way or another he makes me so irritated! He leaves his very pregnant wife to go to Ethiopia, and then when he and his buddy run out of gas, stupidly wanders through dangerous territory and everyone believes he's missing and has very good reason to worry about his safety. Ugh, c'mon Groovyhair, get your shit together! And I know he may have had no choice and was probably in just as much danger sitting there too, I just have such an irrationally ugh reaction to him. Just this along with his, "Let's debrief and see where we're all at once I'm back," in the last episode just irk me.

And the way Alice was saying "The police told me to call the State Department, and the State Department told me Ethiopia is a Soviet satellite state! Soviet, Carl!" made me think that it was news to her. You'd think the Tims would know a detail like that about the country he is going into. Maybe it wouldn't matter to them, but shouldn't she have known that?

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I hope that Stan doesn't get paranoid.  I mean, it is understandable. His office has suffered some serious misfortunes. Gene bites the dust, then Martha disappears, now Gaad is dead.....PLUS Nina, someone who he loved was killed.  He might start taking this personally. 

Well, it's an occupational hazard to some extent. He works at the FBI, in counterintelligence, dealing with Russian spies. It would be like a doctor starting to worry that he sees only sick people for some reason.

[BananaRama]

13 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Are we really supposed to believe that yet another kid is going to be drawn to this church? Following Paige there in hopes of hooking up yes, but church is stretching it.

Well, considering how much their parents leave them by themselves, I am not surprised that Matthew and Paige would be pulled in to something.

[tennisgurl]

I can never figure out how I feel about Pastor Tim. On the one hand, I do now think he is genuine in his do gooderness, and, unlike most people on this show, he does not seem to have any hidden agenda, and is just trying to help the world (although you can say that several characters do what they do out of a desire to help the world. That is another debate). On the other hand, he just does such stupid things, I want to roll my eyes at his groovy haired ass. Most recently, going off to Ethiopia with his wife about to pop out a kid, and then wandering around off roads leaving everyone else to freak out! Who does that? As amazed as I am that Martha made it out alive, I am even more shocked at the continued existence of Pastor Tim. I mean, holy crap, Philip and Elizabeth now have to worry that he is going to get his ass killed without them even doing anything! 

Edited May 19, 2016 by tennisgurl

[scartact]

32 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Frankly, he was irresponsible to decide to hope over to the next village with what sounds like another missionary too. Like not even a local guide. Because he can't just stick to the program.

I completely forgot that's why he was in a stupid half tank car in the first place or some shit and this just makes me even more irritated by him! That white savior complex martyrdom attitude don't fly with me, Groovyhair.

[hellmouse]

Although it would infuriate me, I would also really enjoy an episode solely from Pastor Tim's perspective. Watch as he tells his wife he's going to Ethiopia when she's 7+ months pregnant. Watch as he decides to go off into another Ethiopian village with a fellow American do-gooder and not much else. Watch as he tells his wife that Paige's parents are Russian spies. Watch as he considers whether or not Philip and Elizabeth should stop spying or have his okay to continue. Watch as his wife bails him out of jail after getting arrested at the anti-nuclear march. Watch as he talks to the busful of admiring teenagers about what it was like to be arrested. Watch as he bravely and boldly lives his noble, humble life, guiding his flock and just being Pastor Tim. It's a tough job but he's got God on his side. 

I don't understand why he bugs me so much, but he does.

ETA: I wonder if Pastor Tim will give any sermons about his time wandering in the desert, and how he wondered if God had deserted him, etc etc. You know he'll at least think about doing that.

Edited May 19, 2016 by hellmouse

[BananaRama]

Isn't it odd that the show wasn't more subtle about the 3 Russian guys visiting Gaad's room being "Russian"?  Their accents were very strong.  That must be why Gaad tried to escape - if the Russians aren't even going to try to hide the fact that they are Russian, then yeah - this is going to end badly.  He might as well die now then spill secrets and then die.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Will Someone Rid The Americans Of Their Troublesome Priest?

(Yes, he's a pastor, but that's not how the quotation goes.) When Pastor Groovyhair runs into trouble on his mission trip, Paige suspects her parents' bosses were involved...and so do her parents.