S04.E10: Munchkins

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

When Paige's long-ago indiscretion threatens to resurface and destroy the family, Philip and Elizabeth find themselves scrambling – and Paige finds herself reevaluating who her parents really are.

Promo:

[sistermagpie]

The promo makes me wonder if Alice will bring up Philip's visit to Pastor Tim in Martial Eagle at all.

[crgirl412]

Maybe she doesn't know about it.  But it sounds like she might if she has come up with this plan to protect herself and the baby. 

Also, I have to work nightshift tonight so I had better be able to watch at least one of the showings outside of an empty patient room while charting my 8 pm assessments!  (Yes, the 8 pm medication administration and assessments can take 2-3 hours if I have 6 patient who have a lot going on.)      

[sistermagpie]

43 minutes ago, crgirl412 said:

 

Maybe she doesn't know about it.  But it sounds like she might if she has come up with this plan to protect herself and the baby. 

 

Yeah, I'd never thought that scene with reference to Alice before but it seems like Pastor Tim would have told her, and if she's now accusing them of killing him I could see her bringing it up.

Good luck on catching the ep!

[Umbelina]

Tonight's show will run long, by 7 minutes I think.  Set your VCRs accordingly!

[PinkRibbons]

Scene from the episode:

Spoiler

 

Watch yourself, Alice. You're pregnant, I'm not even rooting for these people and I still want to beat your ass for abuse of your husband's position as a private confidant. My hope is that when it comes out that Tim is alive and stupid as ever, Paige will have an out of the whole church business because she can genuinely cite not being able to be around Alice anymore. And Tim might feel like a big enough dick for causing the situation (by telling Alice) that he lets it go. I mean they'd still need to have to surveillance on him but maybe, just maybe Paige can get out of this operation.

 

Felt the spoiler cut was necessary, but it's mostly just speculation.

[sistermagpie]

Spoiler

No surprise whatsover that Pastor Tim would wander off to "another village" with some other guy. Alice has probably been harboring fantasies of him being martyred so she can turn in the Commies since he told her about them. Scratch that--I think she hated them even before she knew they were Russian. 

[AimingforYoko]

This show, man.  I was yelling at the TV for Elizabeth to tell Gabriel "Yes".

Sort of a shocker about Gaad. What was the plan there, I wonder.

[Shriekingeel]

Funniest line in four seasons of this show had to be when Killizebeth says to Paige: "what do you think, we kill people?? THAT'S CRAZY TALK!"

The very Russian expletive "chort!" (The devil!) from one of the goons when Gaad died. What did they want with him anyway?

Edited May 19, 2016 by Shriekingeel
Word change

[SeanC]

I feel bad for poor Page, being guilted by her parents for having gotten the accurate read that they would be killing to kill Pastor Tim.

[FormerMod-a1]

You killed Gaad!  You bastards!

I wonder what the operation was Arkady wanted him for.

[Primetimer]

(Yes, he's a pastor, but that's not how the quotation goes.) When Pastor Groovyhair runs into trouble on his mission trip, Paige suspects her parents' bosses were involved...and so do her parents.

View the full article

[TimWil]

Night, John-Boy.

[gwhh]

What does Department / Directive 12 do for the KGB? 

So was the KGB going to do something in Ethopia?  

Did groovey hair wife REALLY make a tape?

What the name of the city in Siberia that Phillip come from?

why do you send 3 KGB agents to make a gladd an offer to work for the KGB. Seems like personal overkill to me. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by gwhh

[tennisgurl]

Poor Gaad! He actually made it to retirement, and now this! 

I love hearing more Philip backstory. So he`s from Siberia? Did we know that? I assume he was giving Paige a PG rated version of his life story, because every flashback we ever have to Philips life when he was Mikael is just filled with misery

Great episode, as always

At least we were spared the continuing horror that is Pastor Tim's hair.  

Edited May 19, 2016 by tennisgurl

[maczero]

How does Stan keep his job?  The man can't keep a secret.  He tells Phil his boss is in Thailand.  He tells his kid about Martha.  And the previews for next week make it look like Stan is sharing more work secrets with Philip.

I'm impressed that Alice has a contingency just in case the Jennings think of getting rid of her & pastor Tim.  If she's smart, she won't turn over the tape and make even more copies just in case the Jennings locate the lawyer holding the first tape.

[Chaos Theory]

Poor Agent Gaad.  It was a nice vacation while it lasted.  {Insert Jokes here)  

Paige is getting good at this spy stuff.  She is also showing a talent for recruiting.  Holly Taylor has been on fire as of late and although I still miss Alison Wright (Poor Martha's dad the bar scene was heartbreaking) watching Paige manage her way through her new reality is mezmerizing.

Kim's back but once again it was in large part to show the damage of a child blabbing their parents secrets.  Which has always bee Kimmy's roll anyway.  She has always been the mirror for Philip into his fears about Paige and telling Kimmy she should never have told him about her father was more or less about Paige Telling their secrets to Pastor Tim and his wife.

Hey everyone apparently Elizabeth has a heart.   Nice to know there is one in there somewhere.

Line of the night is by Paige:  "You can't be Russian spies in Russia."  

Edited May 19, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[TheRealWendy]

Department 12 is Bioweapons.

[JennyMominFL]

I just realized that martha's dad is Larry from Three's Company. Glad to see he finally settled down

[benteen]

WTF with Gaad?!

Another really good episode.  I liked the Philip backstory too.  Even though they dodged another bullet, the noose continues to tighten.

It's not a surprise that Matthew is likely to be drawn into Paige's church.

[tennisgurl]

Also, glad to know that apparently Oleg is smart enough to see that Tatiana is playing him, at least I think that was what he was saying. Even though she says she is being honest with him, I still do not trust her in the slightest. She seems to be a specialist in bioweapons, but she might also be dipping into internal affairs. According to previews for next week 

Spoiler

Oleg is still talking with Stan, so apparently something is still happening there. Its too much of a coincidence that Tatiana decides she is all into Oleg right after he starts becoming disillusioned. 

The scene with Martha's dad was hearbreaking. At least she is still alive (as far as we know). For me, no news is good news on the Martha front.  

[AimingforYoko]

5 minutes ago, benteen said:

It's not a surprise that Matthew is likely to be drawn into Paige's church.

Let's get the son of an FBI counter-intelligence agent in a church with a pastor who happens to know a couple of KGB spies. What could possibly go wrong here?

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Shriekingeel said:

The very Russian expletive "chort!" (The devil!) from one of the goons when Gaad died. What did they want with him anyway?

Russian but as Pink Ribbons will no doubt verify, much too clean for what he'd actually say in that situation.

I think my favorite scene was Jim and Kimmie where he has the opposite reaction to her blabbing than Pastor Tim. Instead of asking her to find out more what he does to tell her older guy friend he warns her that this is a choice to not be close to her father. Since he has a very different pov on all this. That's probably why they started with Philip telling something about his past for the first time. The truth was bringing them closer together, then they were enemies. But I love that he's now also advising her on her boyfriends and she's not hitting on him.

But then, nobody was keeping secrets in this ep. Stan's telling his son about Martha now? And Matthew gets it's kind of a bribe--funny how in the past they did bond over Stan being honest and now Matthew's like yeah, he's really chatty. (Note that Matthew is also almost always alone when we see him.So much neglect!  /jk )

Elizabeth was hilarious with her "that's crazy! We would never do that!" But it was frankly more insulting than crazy--you think we'd kill the Pastor and leave his wife running around blabbing? Give us some credit. I don't know why Elizabeth's lying so blatantly about how they'd never do this stuff. I mean, is she really believing what she's saying? It's Elizabeth so maybe.

Personally, I had very little sympathy for Paige. I was looking forward to her figuring out that what she did would actually effect her own life, but of course she reacted just like Mrs. Tim, by becoming indignant like somebody demanding to speak to the manager when they're told their reservation has been lost. And then wondering when they're going to tell Henry. Because telling her went so damn well. Every time it seems like she's finally had her eyes opened, it turns out there's another layer of lid.

I guess we got a clue about why Philip loves Elizabeth so much. He had a tough mom.

2 minutes ago, gwhh said:

What the name of the city in Siberia that Phillip come from?

Tobolsk. He said it in S2 as well. So what do we think "he was tired" was a euphemism for? Drinking himself to death? Beating his son? Both?

 

3 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Paige is getting good at this spy stuff.  She is also showing a talent for recruiting.  Holly Taylor has been on fire as of late and although I still miss Alison Wright (Poor Martha's dad the bar scene was heartbreaking) watching Paige manage her way through her new reality is mezmerizing.

Paige seems to get graded on a remedial level for these things. Any random episode of Freaks & Geeks has teens being far more realistically skilled at spy stuff or recruiting.

4 minutes ago, benteen said:

It's not a surprise that Matthew is likely to be drawn into Paige's church.

Are we really supposed to believe that yet another kid is going to be drawn to this church? Following Paige there in hopes of hooking up yes, but church is stretching it.

[shura]

What was that Gabriel said about a librarian? I missed it, it went too quick for me. Is that related to Tatiana's request to Oleg?

The "Erithrean border" threw me at first since I'm pretty sure there was no Erithrea in 1983. But I suppose Alice could have been referring to the general area of the Erithrean insurgency.

I wonder what Paige would accept as a solution to her parents being exposed. What is she picturing exactly? Relocating to Russia is off the list apparently. 

[AliShibaz]

"long ago indescretion"? They're talking about Paige telling PT that her parents are spies for the USSR?

How does that rate being called "long ago". Even given the way time passes in this series, that happened just a few months ago. They make it sound as if it was something that happened several years ago.

25 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

I just realized that martha's dad is Larry from Three's Company. Glad to see he finally settled down

LOL ROFL! The best laugh I've had in years and years. Thank you oh so much!

[shura]

18 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Note that Matthew is also almost always alone when we see him.So much neglect!  /jk

No kidding. Kind of assy of Stan to insist on Matthew staying with him and then not actually being there to spend time with Matthew. On the other hand, Matthew probably doesn't mind having a house (and his mom's car) to himself. I'm surprised he is not bringing girls there.

When the door bell rang and Philip went to answer it, I was almost expecting Stan and Martha's dad to be there to invite Philip for a drink with them. "Philip, is it? Hmm, you look familiar... Have we met before?"

Edited May 19, 2016 by shura

[madam magpie]

It was the 1980s. Helicopter parenting wasn't a thing yet, and Stan is the dad, not the mom. I'm not surprised he isn't around much to spend time with Matthew.

[hellmouse]

25 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

...Elizabeth was hilarious with her "that's crazy! We would never do that!" But it was frankly more insulting than crazy--you think we'd kill the Pastor and leave his wife running around blabbing? Give us some credit. I don't know why Elizabeth's lying so blatantly about how they'd never do this stuff. I mean, is she really believing what she's saying? It's Elizabeth so maybe.

Personally, I had very little sympathy for Paige. I was looking forward to her figuring out that what she did would actually effect her own life, but of course she reacted just like Mrs. Tim, by becoming indignant like somebody demanding to speak to the manager when they're told their reservation has been lost. And then wondering when they're going to tell Henry. Because telling her went so damn well. Every time it seems like she's finally had her eyes opened, it turns out there's another layer of lid.

 

I keep thinking about Elizabeth telling both Paige and Pastor Tim/Alice about what they do and how she talks about how they fight for peace and for people who can't stand up for themselves, etc, which doesn't really resonate with her very American listeners. She is such a true believer that she isn't able to modulate into a more conversational, personal approach. I'm sure she's able to sometimes, but not when it comes to describing how she really feels about what they do. So I think she lies when she needs to and believes what she's saying because it's all part of her work for the cause. 

Which is what makes it so powerful when she says yes to Gabriel at the end of the episode. 

And as for Paige, ITA. I thought the whole Alice with a tape thing was going to bring Paige into a better understanding with her parents. Instead, it made her even more of a teenager (although I loved her line about how you can't be Russian spies in Russia), who thinks she knows way more than she does. Why on earth does she think they should tell Henry? Because it's gone so well with telling her? It seems like it's one step forward two steps back with Paige. 

And can I just say thank goodness "Jim" has become kind of a friend to Kimmie rather than a lover. 

3 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

It was the 1980s. Helicopter parenting wasn't a thing yet, and Stan is the dad, not the mom. I'm not surprised he isn't around much to spend time with Matthew.

I'm not surprised either, but it is kind of lame on Stan's part given how he wanted to have more of a relationship with Matthew. Although I guess he is talking more, telling Matthew about his work, which probably he shouldn't be doing.

How old is Matthew supposed to be? A year or two older than Paige?

Edited May 19, 2016 by hellmouse

[Knuckles]

Kudos to Stan's son Mathew for being a completely believable teenager...he so had it down. And his efforts with the overwrought Paige were perfect...especially as he sized up the church boy hugging Paige. But joining the youth group at church...no frigging way. 

Alice and her tape...who knew she would make such a ballsy move...and refusing to keep her voice down. Yeah, her husband is missing in Ethiopia and the 2 Russian spies she knows are possibly responsible and Philip wants her to not disturb Henry while he does his homework? 

Elizabeth looked a little affronted when Paige reacted to the idea of being sent back to Russia as a ticket to a leper colony. Philip looked a little shocked that Paige assumed Phil and Liz would be sent back, but she and Henry would be free to stay in the USA. I was waiting for him to say, hey, we're a family here...where we go, you go, but I guess he didn't want to push it...since clearly it was not a winning idea. Suggest Paige already sees he and Elizabeth as distinct from herself and Henry; the Americans and the 2 Russian spies.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Knuckles
already see Philip and Elizabeth as distinct

[sistermagpie]

20 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

It was the 1980s. Helicopter parenting wasn't a thing yet, and Stan is the dad, not the mom. I'm not surprised he isn't around much to spend time with Matthew.

Just to be clear, I was just making a joke since people are always saying Henry's neglected (even though we've seen many scenes of him with his family this season) and that's why he hangs out with more stable Stan. But of course Stan is, in fact, working crazy hours too.

20 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

And as for Paige, ITA. I thought the whole Alice with a tape thing was going to bring Paige into a better understanding with her parents. Instead, it made her even more of a teenager (although I loved her line about how you can't be Russian spies in Russia), who thinks she knows way more than she does. Why on earth does she think they should tell Henry? Because it's gone so well with telling her? It seems like it's one step forward two steps back with Paige. 

Yes! I was really shocked at all her reactions in this ep. I didn't consider it bad writing at all--it was totally believable from her, but wow, it wouldn't have occurred to me to think it until she said it. I was amazed, especially, that after Alice comes in and threatens the family it immediately becomes about Paige and how she feels. Like yes, I think it makes sense to wonder if your parents did this because yes, of course the KGB might kidnap someone. But she literally did not react to this like a threat at all. Even Alice is like "Paige, sorry, I know you have nothing to do with this..." as if she's not literally coming to tell them she's probably going to effectively make her and her brother orphans. Then it turns out Paige feels the same way. Oh, you and dad might have to leave? And me and Henry will live in the house like always and you'll send me grocery money or something? Like you're working very very late?

 

20 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

How old is Matthew supposed to be? A year or two older than Paige?

I think at the start he was 3 years older? She was 13 and he was 16?

10 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

Alice and her tape...who knew she would make such a ballsy move...and refusing to keep her voice down. Yeah, her husband is missing in Ethiopia and the 2 Russian spies she knows are possibly responsible and Philip wants her to not disturb Henry while he does his homework? 

I think Alice has wanted to turn them in for a long time but her Pastor's Wife thing means she's only open about her feelings when Tim isn't around. At least to other people.

10 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

Suggest Paige already sees he and Elizabeth as distinct from herself and Henry; the Americans and the 2 Russian spies.

Also she just rarely thinks practically or longterm about any of these things. She still doesn't have any fear of her family being split up or being sent away. She thinks she can just explain how that's unfair and that's that.

It's funny, when we were discussing Pastor Tim last week and whether he would see himself as a threat the analogy I thought of was if I was a high school teacher with a good relationship with a student. One day he tells me he's just learned he and his family are in the US illegally. He feels dishonest, feels like a criminal, but is scared for his parents etc. Even if all I ever did was assure him and his family I wouldn't tell, I'd expect them to always see me as a threat. But that kid would probably have a more realistic fear. Paige's rare moments of fear are forgotten.

Edited May 19, 2016 by sistermagpie

[madam magpie]

32 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

I'm not surprised either, but it is kind of lame on Stan's part given how he wanted to have more of a relationship with Matthew. Although I guess he is talking more, telling Matthew about his work, which probably he shouldn't be doing.

How old is Matthew supposed to be? A year or two older than Paige?

That would be my guess too. I don't think it's lame either, really. He thinks his kid should be around and they should have a relationship, so he pushes for that. It's only lame by modern (overbearing) standards. At the time, the fact that Stan--breadwinning FBI tough guy--wants much to do with his kid at all is pretty remarkable.

Edited May 19, 2016 by madam magpie

[mjc570]

Poor Gaad!  I think this is what makes Stan begin to have suspicions about Philip, since I assume he didn't mention Gaad's vacation to many people.  It looked to me like he was thinking about this after Stan told him.  Perhaps the Russians should have made more of an effort to make it look like a robbery.

I truly hate Paige, and I would have killed her long ago, not just for getting them into this mess in the first place, but her attitude.  She refuses to believe that her parents lives are literally on the line, so when they start making plans, she is utterly dismissive. Hey, Paige, I'm pretty sure that Elizabetjh and Philip will be able to support themselves in Russia.  I sure wouldn't want that little rat living with me, vastly increasing the stress that Philip and Elizabeth operate under,  Speaking of that, it was nice to see Philip relaxing with Kimmie.

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, mjc570 said:

Poor Gaad!  I think this is what makes Stan begin to have suspicions about Philip, since I assume he didn't mention Gaad's vacation to many people.  It looked to me like he was thinking about this after Stan told him.  Perhaps the Russians should have made more of an effort to make it look like a robbery.

Would his vacation really have been a big secret? So much that only Stan could have been a leak? He's traveling under his own name, isn't he?

2 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

I sure wouldn't want that little rat living with me, vastly increasing the stress that Philip and Elizabeth operate under,  Speaking of that, it was nice to see Philip relaxing with Kimmie.

There is potentially a lot of subtext in what Philip says in that scene, like about what his own feelings for himself are about this situation. At home almost everything he says is a defense of Paige or understanding or Paige. It's that thing where he's always having to think about how the other person feels to put them in the right frame of mind.

Even in the first scene in the kitchen she asks if he liked Tobolsk and it's never occurred to him to ask himself that, because why would he? It's not like he grew up dreaming of getting out of the sticks and going to Moscow asap.

[mjc570]

3 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Would his vacation really have been a big secret? So much that only Stan could have been a leak? He's traveling under his own name, isn't he?

Sure, you're right, but I wonder how many other people Gaad would have told specifically he was going to Thailand, since he told Stan when he was at Gaad's house, not at work with other employees around.  And, I don't think Stan would have mentioned it to any other non-FBI people, since he doesn't seem to have many (if any) other friends, although he might have mentioned it to Matthew.  Anyway. just speculation on my part, of course, since I assume that at some point there is going to have to be some movement toward a plot line where Stan finally catches on to the possibility that Elizabeth and Philip are the spies he's been chasing.  I assumed that it was going to be through Martha/Clark, but this could also be something that makes Stan start to wonder.

[Umbelina]

17 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

Kudos to Stan's son Mathew for being a completely believable teenager...he so had it down. And his efforts with the overwrought Paige were perfect...especially as he sized up the church boy hugging Paige. But joining the youth group at church...no frigging way. 

Alice and her tape...who knew she would make such a ballsy move...and refusing to keep her voice down. Yeah, her husband is missing in Ethiopia and the 2 Russian spies she knows are possibly responsible and Philip wants her to not disturb Henry while he does his homework? 

Elizabeth looked a little affronted when Paige reacted to the idea of being sent back to Russia as a ticket to a leper colony. Philip looked a little shocked that Paige assumed Phil and Liz would be sent back, but she and Henry would be free to stay in the USA. I was waiting for him to say, hey, we're a family here...where we go, you go, but I guess he didn't want to push it...since clearly it was not a winning idea. Suggest Paige already sees he and Elizabeth as distinct from herself and Henry; the Americans and the 2 Russian spies.

I loved Paige's reaction at the idea of living in Russia, and her parent's reaction to her reaction.  Honestly?  I can buy that she never even considered that they would plan to make her or her brother live in Russia.  Although, it's been nearly a year, you'd think that just might have occurred to her, in spite of the stress she's been under.

I liked Alice being ballsy and smart about the tape.  I do think boys will do just about anything for a girl they have their eye on, so Mathew could join, if not the church, then at least the youth group events, music whatever.  That would certainly be weird though.

Goodnight John-boy.  That was a shocker.  Why not just listen to those dudes and get information?  Maybe because he knew they would drag him out and drug/torture him to get inside information about the FBI?

OMG, she IS going to tell Don she's pregnant!  Someone here guessed that, and we are really moving right along on the timeline.  So far, I loved Don's reaction "Abort it."  I am kind of hoping Don really turns the tables here somehow.

2 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

Sure, you're right, but I wonder how many other people Gaad would have told specifically he was going to Thailand, since he told Stan when he was at Gaad's house, not at work with other employees around.  And, I don't think Stan would have mentioned it to any other non-FBI people, since he doesn't seem to have many (if any) other friends, although he might have mentioned it to Matthew.  Anyway. just speculation on my part, of course, since I assume that at some point there is going to have to be some movement toward a plot line where Stan finally catches on to the possibility that Elizabeth and Philip are the spies he's been chasing.  I assumed that it was going to be through Martha/Clark, but this could also be something that makes Stan start to wonder.

It's decent speculation, but I'm pretty sure the KGB can track people as well as we can.  It may play into everything at some point.

I'm glad Martha hasn't been forgotten, we may hear more!  Also, obviously, Clark has not been allowed to contact him.  Good job Gabe.

[hellmouse]

44 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

Poor Gaad!  I think this is what makes Stan begin to have suspicions about Philip, since I assume he didn't mention Gaad's vacation to many people.  It looked to me like he was thinking about this after Stan told him.  Perhaps the Russians should have made more of an effort to make it look like a robbery.

I truly hate Paige, and I would have killed her long ago, not just for getting them into this mess in the first place, but her attitude.  She refuses to believe that her parents lives are literally on the line, so when they start making plans, she is utterly dismissive. Hey, Paige, I'm pretty sure that Elizabetjh and Philip will be able to support themselves in Russia.  I sure wouldn't want that little rat living with me, vastly increasing the stress that Philip and Elizabeth operate under,  Speaking of that, it was nice to see Philip relaxing with Kimmie.

I don't think Stan suspects Philip at the moment, so I don't think he'll assume he was involved in informing the KGB about the Thailand trip. I think Stan will use Philip as a friend to confide in. Eventually that will change (it must, right?!) but I don't see it happening because of this. 

As for Paige, I think she's a teenager. I've always thought that Paige and Henry are such good children. They're generally well-behaved, responsible and reasonable. The past season, Paige has been acting more like what I'd expect a teenager to do. She doesn't understand all the ramifications of her actions and she doesn't want to accept them when she's told. She wants everything to be normal again, and she blames her parents for when things are not the way she wants. That is a very adolescent response. 

But at the same time, she is growing up, as all teenagers do. Part of her growing up is learning how to manage an asset who can harm her family. She has accepted the responsibility of staying close to Tim and Alice. She reports back to her parents, and suggests which moves she thinks will be helpful (the whole family going to the Ethiopia farewell trip, not asking for the tape yet). So she is in an awkward in-between place, not fully believing what her parents say, but still doing what they tell her to do in order to protect the family. She's even thinking more about the extended family - asking Philip about his parents and his life in Russia. She's imagining what her parents' lives were like when they were her age. That's a quiet but definite sign of her still wanting to be close to her parents and be part of the family. 

It would not surprise me at all to find that she decides to take Russian lessons in an upcoming episode, the better to be prepared for an eventual move. It also wouldn't surprise me if she investigates the missing secretary from the FBI and interrogates her parents about it. She's that unpredictable. I like it even though it is frustrating.

Edited May 19, 2016 by hellmouse

[gwhh]

I don't think Alice made a tape. Sounds to complicated for a preacher wife. Plus the office bugs/wire tap did not pick up anything about it. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by gwhh

[Bama]

Heh.  Philip is Kimmie's Pastor Tim.

But with pot instead of Jesus.

[ptuscadero]

I notice that the manner of Gaad's death was never specifically mentioned by anyone. Is it possible that it may be perceived as accidental, since he basically fell through the glass door? He doesn't have any other wounds, does he?

[shura]

12 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

Sure, you're right, but I wonder how many other people Gaad would have told specifically he was going to Thailand, since he told Stan when he was at Gaad's house, not at work with other employees around.  And, I don't think Stan would have mentioned it to any other non-FBI people, since he doesn't seem to have many (if any) other friends, although he might have mentioned it to Matthew.

There's Gaad's wife, too. She may have told her friends they are going to Thailand. Stan shouldn't really have a solid reason to assume the leak must have come from him.

31 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

That would be my guess too. I don't think it's lame either, really. He thinks his kid should be around and they should have a relationship, so he pushes for that. It's only lame by modern (overbearing) standards. At the time, the fact that Stan--breadwinning FBI tough guy--wants much to do with his kid at all is pretty remarkable.

He doesn't seem to spend time with his kid though. Stan has arranged to have his kid available when he can find time to spend with him, even though he knows he himself might not be available much of the time. I wonder why. To feel like a parent on those rare-ish occasions he has time be a parent?

[hellmouse]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Tobolsk. He said it in S2 as well. So what do we think "he was tired" was a euphemism for? Drinking himself to death? Beating his son? Both?

Re: Philip's dad - I vote for both. Beating his son and wife and drinking himself to death. Good times.

[madam magpie]

21 minutes ago, shura said:

He doesn't seem to spend time with his kid though. Stan has arranged to have his kid available when he can find time to spend with him, even though he knows he himself might not be available much of the time. I wonder why. To feel like a parent on those rare-ish occasions he has time be a parent?

Sure. Also, though, it's kind of what you do. Stan's not a total jerk, so he's not just going to ditch Matthew. You get divorced in the '80s, you take some responsibility for your kid. But Stan works a lot, so Matthew fends for himself. Stan is as involved as if the parents were married. Plus Matthew has to be 17 or 18 by this point. He doesn't need all kinds of bonding time with his dad (according to 1980s standards; I realize that nowadays parents want to go to college with their kids).

I was a latchkey kid from the age of 10 and was raised by a single parent who worked two jobs, so the fact that the kids are left alone and unsupervised so often on this show looks totally normal to me. My mother did stuff with me on some weekends and holidays, but she didn't make a concerted effort to spend time with me. She was too busy. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by madam magpie

[NitneLiun]

2 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

You killed Gaad!  You bastards!

I wonder what the operation was Arkady wanted him for.

I got the impression that it wasn't Arkady's operation, when he said it should never have been planned.  It seems it was an operation being run completely by Moscow Center.

[tennisgurl]

16 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

Re: Philip's dad - I vote for both. Beating his son and wife and drinking himself to death. Good times.

That is what I assumed as well. Everything we ever hear about Philips past is endlessly depressing, and I assume that his family life is basically the same. Just the tone of his voice seemed to be very considering, like he was trying to figure out how to phrase things in the nicest way possible. I do like that we are getting some more hints about his past though through Paige. 

[Umbelina]

Wow, Dr. Taub is now in charge of the DC office of the FBI!

[snarktini]

I was holding my breath from the moment we saw Gaad. He was probably about to die, with an outside chance he was faking retirement and on a mission. Even on full alert, I didn't think he'd be dead in a minute flat! Damn. This show doesn't play.

Waiting for Elizabeth to decide at the end was excruciating! I kept nodding my head, willing her to say yes. Poor Don and Young Hee. Many here feel he should be smart enough to realize he's being played. Maybe true! I'd love to see that. But he seems to have a very strong sense of honor/shame, which we saw kick in both in doing favors for his wife's friend and when he scurried out the morning after. He was horrified and assumed blame, where someone else might have gotten angry or defensive. If he's that kind of guy, Elizabeth's odds are better. Shame can overcome rational thought.

[PinkRibbons]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Russian but as Pink Ribbons will no doubt verify, much too clean for what he'd actually say in that situation.

Yes and no. I do think they'd say something stronger, but the general attitude of those guys gave me the impression that they were overall more genteel folks. IME, Russians swear the most when they're happy or angry. In this case it seemed a lot more like these men were upset and sadly surprised by what happened, so the lack of profanity didn't bother me as much as usual. Incidentally I'm pretty sure Gaad died from bleeding out of a pierced artery. Nice to see a tv show not pretend that any trauma not center mass or to the head is "just a flesh wound".

I don't believe that's all of Philip's story. I'm guessing the father might have been stepfather, and almost definitely a drunken beater as a lot have said. It was amazing what even the strongest women put up with in post-war Russia just to have a man.

I thought Holly Taylor was great in this episode. She looked like she was about to throw up out of anxiety the whole episode, to the point where I really did want to slap Alice for not alleviating her fears more after the good news came in. I mean the look on er face, I feel like she's going to have an ulcer by season's end.

I liked how now that Paige doesn't have time for Matthew, he's completely into her. I didn't care for what she said to her parents but I like that she doesn't seem to be looking at Alice and Tim as the White to Phil and Liz's Black anymore, as the episode ended.

(Full disclosure -- this forum moves so fast that I tend to panic and not read if I'm more than a page behind in the discussion. Please tag me if you want me to see something specifically, I would really appreciate it.)

[chocolatine]

"You can't be Russian spies in Russia" won the episode for me, followed closely by the side-eye Philip gave Elizabeth after she said "thank G-d" at the news that Pastor Groovyhair was safe.

As for Matthew being alone at Stan's house a lot, don't you guys think Matthew might prefer it that way? He must be in his late teens by now, and having the freedom to drink beer and play video games with Henry for hours probably beats spending time with either of his parents at this point. It's not the same as Henry being left alone at age 11/12, when he clearly wanted more family time.

What a sad ending for Gaad. The main KGB thug thought so too, the way he kept asking for forgiveness.

I was surprised that Elizabeth answered "yes" at the end, because, as she said to Gabriel, she knows that her feelings don't matter when there's a job to do. 

Spoiler

Too bad that she'll have to go through with it anyway.

[AliShibaz]

I really despise this Alice character (I worded it like this to acknowledge I understand the diff between the actor and the character).

It's so completely stupid for her to come into the Jennings home and refuse to lower her voice thereby endangering the Jennings.

Wouldn't the logical approach have been to come to the Jennings and since Eithiopia is aligned with the USSR, to ask the Jennings for help? They could contact their people in that country and try to help. But instead, Alice acts like a lunatic. I'm not a violent person. But when she refused to lower her voice, I just really wanted to take a big heavy brick or iron or hammer and bash her in the head to make her shut up. I find myself hoping now that both the pastor and his wife die and as soon as possible.

Forgive me if I failed to see any posts about this. But I thought the most interesting part of this epi was the question of just what would those three Russian people want to suggest to Gaad. The fact they sent 3 people seems very unusual to me. I suppose the logical assumption would be these were agents of the KGB. One of them looked very much like Oleg. I was sure he was a relative. But if they were agents, why send three? They seemed to time their entry so that Gadd would be alone.

Is it possible they weren't agents at all but perhaps some Russian dissidents looking to make a contact into the USA? Maybe they were Christians or some other religious group looking for help? If they were agents, I would guess they might want to make a proposal regarding Martha. Although I can't imagine what that would be. Does anyone have any ideas as to just what they may have proposed to Gaad if he hadn't died?

The fact that one of them says, "I'm sorry" 2 or 3 times would lead me to believe these were not KGB operatives but just some young people who didn't really have any experience. But what could they have wanted? Maybe one or more of them wanted to defect?

To summarize, either these 3 people were KGB operatives or they weren't. If they were, why send 3 of them and what could they have wanted with Gaad? He is a retired FBI agent. Maybe they wanted to ask him to give them info in return for money? Or to give them some names of FBI agents who might be able to be turned? After all, Gaad was likely not very happy with his treatment by the FBI.

But, if they were not KGB agents, who the heck could they have been and what might they have wanted? Seems like a very interesting question to me.

Edited May 19, 2016 by AliShibaz

[VCRTracking]

RIP Gaad. The Russians plan wasn't to recruit him was it? Arkady took his death pretty hard.

God that opening dinner with Young Hee's family was awkward with poor Don feeling guilty. Also later hearing Young Hee's message.

Man, we get it show, Oleg and Tatiana have great sex.

Phillip's assignment with CIA teenage daughter  continues to be icky.

Looking at recent photos of Keri Russell on the red carpet confirmed that the lighting on the show is extremely unflattering towards her, probably on purpose. It makes her look way older and harsher.

Found out on Twitter that Martha's dad was played by Larry from Three's Company and it blew my mind. I did not recognize him!

Edited May 19, 2016 by VCRTracking