S07.E28: Camp No Counselors, Extreme Vehicle Protection, Gladiator Lacrosse, VPCABS

[yeswedo]

A former business analyst aims to bring back the nostalgic joy of sleep-away camp to adults; two business partners pitch a product that will protect your car from extreme weather conditions; a 15-year-old entrepreneur hopes to win over the Sharks with her redesigned lacrosse equipment; and a man presents a revamped video game version of the classic pinball machine for the home. Also, an update from Misto Box, a coffee subscription “experience” in which Mark Cuban invested in during Season 4.

[Charlesman]

I built my own virtual pinball machine a few years back. Cost me about 200 for the cabinet and glass, 800 for the PC parts, and 1000 for the 3 monitors to run the play field, backglass, and score display. There are a couple other companies that make prefab machines of comparable quality for 3000-8000.

 

It's certainly fun. All the software is free though. Much of is is volunteer based. Quality varies. If they're licensing the games, maybe the quality is higher. Kevin was right that there's little proprietary about it. 

 

It's really just a CAD wire frame of the table, with hires art draped over it. The game is programmed and the physics tuned. All rendered by a good graphics card. It takes a lot of programming and design work,which the table manufacturing company doesn't do. 

Cuban made some good points. They're really just a PC building company. It's just a different kind of case. 

[Kenz]

The lacrosse girl who just turned fifteen was so impressive and mature. She even took the rejection of the sharks in a positive way. She's sure to be successful in life.

[starri]

So, it's Daymond who's the Pinball Wizard.  I am very, very digital (I haven't purchased a physical book that wasn't a textbook in years), and I'm going to be totally screwed when the EPM comes, but I guess I'm a Luddite when it comes to pinball.  The fun part of pinball is watching Chaos Theory in motion, and also I like the way the ball rolls on the track.  It's like a virtual slot machine, there's no satisfaction without the tactile sensation.  Also, someone should tell Beardo that there's no crying in pinball.

I'll admit straight-out that I probably act inappropriately younger than my almost-middle age.  However, perhaps it might be suggested to Wet Hot American Summer that it might be time to put on his Big Boy pants.  Also, if this is seasonal business, and they do it in summer camp offseason, it seems that at least the New York market, going upstate or into the Poconos would be goddamn chilly to slide down your adult-sized Slip-N-Slide.  If you just want to go out into the woods and drink, you don't need to play dress-up in matching t-shirts, short shorts, and athletic socks.

Teentrepeneur....nope nope nope.

I really liked that Car Condom guy eventually developed moral issues with repo-ing cars.  Especially because his awakening came when, instead of having to punish poor people for the crime of being poor, he had to start ruining the day of middle-class white people.

[BusyOctober]

Camp for adults doesn't appeal to me, but I know a few people who would be all over that for college reunion get togethers.  Any excuse to sit around a bonfire and drink will sell to the late 20-30 crowd. I just don't see how it makes money and grows, or why established camps wouldn't just do this kind of event themselves.

The zip lock Baggie for cars was a good idea.  I think protecting the interior and wiring would be very helpful in the event of crazy floods and hurricanes.  However, for all the waterproof protection it offers, it won't prevent the car from washing away and floating down the street.  Even if it's zipped up in its Baggie, if your car is washed down stream and crashes into other cars or a bridge abutment, your vehicle will still be totaled.

Lacross girl was very poised and I bet she will be successful.  I think her gear was too "niche" for Shark Tank.  Hopefully the tv exposure amps up her business.

No interest in old school pinball, and I stopped playing video games when the slaughter of hundreds of innocent frogs started to weigh on my conscience (aka Frogger Fail of 1987). For anyone who is interested in gaming, nothing is preventing a bunch of other enthusiasts from doing what Weirdo with a Beardo did.  As Charlesman noted above, it can be done for less money by someone with the know-how.

[Primetimer]

You know what's not investable? Good manners, if the pompous plutocrats on Shark Tank are anything to go by.

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[Auntie Anxiety]

Quote

Camp for adults doesn't appeal to me, but I know a few people who would be all over that for college reunion get togethers.  Any excuse to sit around a bonfire and drink will sell to the late 20-30 crowd. I just don't see how it makes money and grows, or why established camps wouldn't just do this kind of event themselves.

There is nothing proprietary about this.  My 30something son and his high school friends (and their wives) do something similar every Labor Day weekend and over the 15+ years, that weekend has become sacrosanct. In fact, since they are scattered all over the country now, a number of them have had their weddings on Labor Day week because they know everyone will be in one place and not have to travel across the country a second time.  

I was surprised that none of the sharks thought about how useful the car bags would be for dealerships in flood-prone/hurricane locations.  A few years ago when the south was pummeled by torrential rain/floods for weeks at a time, a lot of new and used cars were rendered unsaleable (did I just make up a word?) because their undercarriages were damaged by the water.

[candall]

I missed the summer camp segment, but the thing that was so great about summer camp was "activities."  (I got a rudimentary introduction to tennis, riflery, archery, canoeing, sailing and certain artsy-crafts.  None of that was available at home, but it's amazing how many of those things popped up later in life.)

So, I still think it's fun to try new things.  Was that part of the featured sales pitch or was it pretty much a Wet Hot American Summer--heh, good call, starri--bonfires & booze schmooze?

P.S>I also had a pinball phase and those virtual flippers were not at all convincing.

[Merneith]

Nothing to add except that I had a Merlin! It was fun, in an 80's sort of way.

[mjc570]

I was surprised by how dismissive the sharks were to the "car condom."  Sure, people like them have no problems replacing their cars - it's like me replacing a pair of sneakers.  For a lot of us, though, we do think about the effect on our cars of  bad weather.  If some flood is predicted, I would really like to be sure my ungaraged car is at least somewhat protected from rain and wind damage (ie, branches, etc).  When there is a weather warning or advisory, we secure our property and do our best to make sure our cars are protected, so I can totally see the value of this.

[starri]

My husband and I lost one of our cars in Sandy (this is pre-NYC, when we had more than one).  Ain't no way that car condom would have done anything to hold back the storm surge.  There's no way that two-sided zipper was water-tight.  It might work in six inches of floodwater, but not in a few feet.

I did enjoy Robert's being nonplussed by the Chevy Volt.  I guess Mr. Fun Shark can't conceive of a world where not everyone drives a sports car that sounds like a jet and burns a gallon of gas for every 11 miles.  I assume they had to have the electric car because they couldn't have exhaust on the set.

[ClareWalks]

The Car Bag confused me because I had no idea how one person was supposed to get their car into it by themselves. Wouldn't you need someone to hold open the bag? And make sure it didn't come off the floor/ground?

[designing1]

To use the car bag you need an actual parking space for the bagged car to ultimately sit plus another car length behind that where you start driving from. This makes it largely useless in big cities like NY, where not everyone has a driveway and where you're lucky to find one parking space, much less two adjacent ones.

[bilgistic]

I live in an apartment complex in a major Southern U.S. city and couldn't pull one full car length straight out of a parking space. But let's be real, that car condom isn't made for my 12-year-old Honda Civic any more than it was made for the Chevy Volt on which it was demonstrated.

[Charlesman]

Car condom didn't do it for me, either. You have to buy the thing in advance, why aren't you just getting out of the flood zone? Or do you expect people to buy it and keep it years? 

I would think most people would just assume if something happens to their car, they'll get insurance or reimbursement somehow. Not that flooding is actually covered every time, but most people might assume it is and not think they need the added expense of the car bag. Adding flood insurance to a car policy is probably cheaper than the bag, too. 

[marketdoctor]

I think the car condom would work better if your insurance company gave you a discount for having one.  If the benefit doesn't support the cost of having one, I'd be dubious unless the car had more sentimental value than replacement value.  That's a market, but you'd also have to live in an area with flood risk and have cars you weren't willing to drive away from the flood zone before it comes.  As the Sharks often point out, that's a subset of a subset..  Also, some types of plastic breaks down over time; I'm not sure if it would still work if you didn't store it properly.

Lacrosse products woman should consider loan financing instead of equity.  For some of these businesses, a loan would be too risky, but she's already got orders, profit, etc.; she might need a parent to co-sign, but interest rates are probably lower than what she'd have to give to equity investors.  (There's also the PR of the show, but she seemed sincere about being open to a deal.)  Maybe she wanted to try the Sharks first, but her product fills a need, so I hope it works out for her.  Also, have the sharks ever MET a teenager?  They like being treated like grown-ups, not "whiz kids."

[Saylii]

The problem with the car condom is that you can't easily put it on in the middle of the road.  I live in a very flash flood prone area, but I wouldn't put one on every time it rains.  The last major floods have been random rain events that the weathermen didn't even predict would get bad.  I do have friends in hail prone areas that would buy a similar product if it prevented against hail damage, but those severe storms are easier to predict.

[Jersey Guy 87]

If I'm going to buy a big, bulky pinball machine I'm going to buy an actual pinball machine that plays real pinball.  Not a computer simulation. Sure, it only plays one game but pinball should be analog.

Camp weekend for adults seems like a weak idea.  I get the impression he uses kids summer camps when they don't have kids there which means your season for anywhere that has real seasons (like the northeast) is limited. And there's nothing to stop the camps from doing it themselves.  Although a weekend of open bar certainly has its appeal.

Car condom seems like it only serves a very limited purpose - protect your car when there's a flood and you have advance warning and room to drive your car into a large plastic bag.  I'd be worried about the zipper being a source of leaks.  I'm not sure how big this business can become.

The lacrosse products seemed good, but I'm not sure she really differentiated her products from competing products.  There are a lot of lacrosse rebounders on the market, they've been around for years and the one we bought for my son four years ago cost about the same as hers and works very well.  She did a good job building a company, she seems to have a lot of drive and initiative but other than "the company is run by a 15 year old high school student" I'm not sure what makes her products stand out.

[basiltherat]

The Camp Frat-House idea seems like a nightmare as far as insurance liability (drunk campers hiking and twisting ankles, falling into the lake) as well as canoodling amongst the sexes getting out of hand.  Let the reunion group or frat house individually make arrangements with the camp and take all the responsibility. 

[NikSac]

That camp made no sense to me. There are adults who like to camp and those who don't - I'm in the latter group so maybe that's part of my resistance to it, but I was having a hard time understanding what made it different. A few more activities to do I guess, in the "off season" of course. And I totally agree on the liability. I was really surprised they barely touched on that.  I was also thinking that all it'd take is one group of heavy drinkers and their profit would be gone for that group.

The giant Ziploc bag for cars also didn't make much sense to me. Maybe I'm picturing bigger floods than what it's intended for, but I was picturing the air trapped inside the thing causing the bag with the car inside to float and start banging into things. of course, that's assuming no leaks. I was wondering if it had a weight or tether or something on it.

I wish the Lacrosse girl well in the long run. That much ambition at her age is great to see. Seemed like she had some ideas for how to expand as well, so that was good.

The pinball machine was kind of neat but didn't seem proprietary enough, and personally if I'm going to get something like that I think I'd want the real thing.

[needschocolate]

A bunch of adults can re-live their youth and spend a weekend at a camp, playing pinball and laCrosse, and cover their cars with car condoms in case other campers get drunk and decide to start egging cars.  

If I had Mark Cuban's money, I would have given the LaCrosse girl a deal. and it would have been a nicer version of what Kevin often goes for - the royalty.  I woudl give her the amount she wanted, then collect $5 on every one sold until I made bake my loan plus $100 (Gotta make a profit, right) and then the deal would be done - I get no equity, she pays the $100 in interest.   

I think the camp guy was there for free advertising and I think he is going to regret it when a bunch of camps suddenly think, "hey, why don't we have adults camp on the weekend?" and he stops being the only option.

I was going to say that the car condom guys should market it as a car cover, but then I check out what car covers go for, and their cover isn't worth the price.  

Hey, pinball was fun and the sharks said that the video version was better than the original.  I know people that would buy it.  I am not one of them.  But the guy';s valuation was wrong, and the market isn't as big as he thinks - those machines take up a lot of space.  

On 5/14/2016 at 5:10 AM, starri said:

Also, if this is seasonal business, and they do it in summer camp offseason, it seems that at least the New York market, going upstate or into the Poconos would be goddamn chilly to slide down your adult-sized Slip-N-Slide.  If you just want to go out into the woods and drink, you don't need to play dress-up in matching t-shirts, short shorts, and athletic socks.

Originally, I thought he meant that he was using these camps in the winter time, which would be pretty ridiculous.  However, later he made it sound like he uses these camps during their regular season, but he uses them on the weekends.  Of course, this still makes his camp a seasonal thing.  

[theatremouse]

I don't think he even really needed to give camps the idea. There are some camp-physical-locations who exist only to rent out their venue to other camp-organizations, who don't have a permanent space or only run limited weeks a year. So depending on what week you're there, it might be a music camp or an archery camp or something else. I imagine he may use spaces like that too (although he may also be using some places that are both a place and the org).

[Ottis]

Quote

 I do have friends in hail prone areas that would buy a similar product if it prevented against hail damage, but those severe storms are easier to predict.

You can't predict hail storms any better than floods. Hail can come out of nowhere, when it is barely cloudy. That said, hail protection was exactly what was missing. They should invent something that pops over your car quickly when it hails, and stays on if it is windy. In Colorado hail is such a problem that it isn't unusual for dealerships to have "hail damage sales."

Edited May 18, 2016 by Ottis

[Eolivet]

From the recap:

But when Kenny asks what Daymond's marketing plan would be for EVP, Daymond acts like he's been mortally insulted. That's...less good. Oh, I apologize, Guy Who Wants A Third of My Business. I hadn't realized that asking exactly what you expected in return for your investment was such an act of impertinence.

I didn't see this like the recapper saw it at all. I saw Kevin making an unreasonable, blood-sucking offer (per usual) and Daymond offering an alternative. Rather than being happy at getting another offer (as most presenters would be), the guy seemed almost hostile or like Daymond had to prove something. Sharks have made offers where they say "I'll make you an offer because I like X and I would do Y," but that's not always the case. I thought the guy was way out of line and I was glad Daymond sort of called him on it. I mean, say thank you first or massage the shark into it ("Thanks for the offer. I'd love to hear your thoughts on where we could take the business.") Don't come on a show, asking for money and when someone offers you money, turn around like you're doing the shark a favor.

I agree that the sharks can be rude, but you're asking them for money. You are the asker, not the askee. The askee is under no obligation to be nice -- he/she has plenty of money already. The entitlement of some of these presenters is outrageous -- I'm glad the sharks don't kowtow to them. Don't come on TV if you're so incredibly successful that you have all the answers and a shark has nothing to offer you. It will come out in your attitude.

[mjc570]

I thought the guy asked Damon about his marketing plan only because Kevin had brought it up.  It seemed to me that he hadn't even thought about it before that.

[Jesse]

Even in the Northeast, you could do the adult summer camp a couple of weeks before and after the camp season. My friends did their wedding that way, and it was super fun. But again, not an original idea or something that's not happening already. 

[HawaiiTVGuy]

Quote

I think the car condom would work better if your insurance company gave you a discount for having one.  If the benefit doesn't support the cost of having one, I'd be dubious unless the car had more sentimental value than replacement value.  That's a market, but you'd also have to live in an area with flood risk and have cars you weren't willing to drive away from the flood zone before it comes.  As the Sharks often point out, that's a subset of a subset..  Also, some types of plastic breaks down over time; I'm not sure if it would still work if you didn't store it properly.

I agree @marketdoctor I also feel if the Zip Bag Car guys went to insurance companies and convince them to give credits to their customers in flood-prone areas when purchasing one for each car (like I think they did with the Club) that this would be a nice way to spread the word and create demand.  I mean the idea is that this would help reduce the outlay the insurance companies would end up paying when cars get totaled so the insurance companies should be interested in promoting it.

Quote

Car condom seems like it only serves a very limited purpose - protect your car when there's a flood and you have advance warning and room to drive your car into a large plastic bag.  I'd be worried about the zipper being a source of leaks.  I'm not sure how big this business can become.

I might be wrong, but if they make the opening for the zipper pointing downwards, wouldn't the natural pressure not allow it to leak INTO the bag?  like there would be a natural air pocket?  I would think there would be some way of making sure it would seal, or the leaking would be minimal to the point of not harming the car.  I am thinking that if they have it as a semi-permanent structure to drive and out, like Draymond says, it would double as an everyday car cover (to protect from sun and debris and bird poop).  If they insulated it enough, it would keep the car cool in hot days.

Edited May 24, 2016 by HawaiiTVGuy

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 5/18/2016 at 10:09 AM, Eolivet said:

From the recap:

 

 

I didn't see this like the recapper saw it at all. I saw Kevin making an unreasonable, blood-sucking offer (per usual) and Daymond offering an alternative. Rather than being happy at getting another offer (as most presenters would be), the guy seemed almost hostile or like Daymond had to prove something. Sharks have made offers where they say "I'll make you an offer because I like X and I would do Y," but that's not always the case. I thought the guy was way out of line and I was glad Daymond sort of called him on it. I mean, say thank you first or massage the shark into it ("Thanks for the offer. I'd love to hear your thoughts on where we could take the business.") Don't come on a show, asking for money and when someone offers you money, turn around like you're doing the shark a favor.

I agree that the sharks can be rude, but you're asking them for money. You are the asker, not the askee. The askee is under no obligation to be nice -- he/she has plenty of money already. The entitlement of some of these presenters is outrageous -- I'm glad the sharks don't kowtow to them. Don't come on TV if you're so incredibly successful that you have all the answers and a shark has nothing to offer you. It will come out in your attitude.

I actually see both sides of what happened.  I think the Sharks are used to the presenters all fawning over them and automatically knowing what kind of infrastructure and logistics they have behind them, so it throws them for a loop to have someone actually call them on their vision for THEIR product.  I can understand their surprise by the question because of that, and it kind of does put them in an uncomfortable position to try to outline a gameplan within minutes of first being presented with an idea without seeing the true behind-the-scenes working of the company.  It seems like kind of an "on the spot" kind of question to be asking.  However, I can see the presenter's perspective as well, and my gut feeling on the guy was he didn't really know much about the Sharks, so his question in his mind was important and reasonable, especially for giving up that much equity.