S04.E08: Unfaithful

[Luckylyn]

As inappropriate and disturbed as Norman is, I think he had a valid point about Norma keeping him too close all these years.   She helped create this dynamic and has outgrown it, and Norman feeling abandoned makes some sense.  Of course, Norma isn't abandoning him but trying to make room for Romero, but Norman isn't capable of feeling anything except threatened.  I feel like Norma has gotten healthier as Norman has become less healthy.  

I love the pairing Dylan and Emma so much and want them out of there.  Norma/Norman are the sinking ship and Emma is Dylan's life raft.  I'm worried something will happen to make him stay, and it will be his doom.

 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Luckylyn

[Spartan Girl]

Crap I didn't know someone else started a thread. Oh well.

That dinner scene was so intense. I know Norman is way off the deep end, but I loved him finally calling Norma out on her double standard. She wanted to be the only woman in his life for so long, but now that she's got a new husband he's supposed to step aside and not interfere.

It was almost sad watching his one scene with Emma because that was the only moment where it was the old sweet Norman. The rest of the episode he was playing the cuckholded husband to a T, right to that disturbing scene of him weeping while watching Norma and Romero through the peephole. Yikes.

When he came at him with the axe, I really thought that was it. But it's coming. I can feel it...

[Luckylyn]

I was extremely worried when Norman had the axe.  I just don't think anyone can reason with Norman at this point.  I'm glad that Romero gets that Norman is dangerous now, but Norma still refuses to really accept the danger even though there have been moments when she feared Norman.  The end is near.  We've hit the point of no return.  Things can only get worse.  The only hope is Dylan and Emma and the chance that they can get out unscathed but with Chick wanting vengeance and what Norman did to Emma's mother hanging over them I'm anxious.  Will anyone survive what's coming?

I think the show is setting up how Norman could kill Norma and Romero and get away with it.  With authorities closing in, people might expect Romero and his wife to flee or get killed by Romero's enemies.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Luckylyn

[raven]

Wow that was something.  I had to laugh at Norma at the tree place, she was in full-on Norma mode and Norman was acting like a scolding parent, chasing her around and demanding to know why she was in a bad mood. 

That was about all the fun though.  That look on Freddie's face right before he threw up - I thought for sure he was going to switch to Mother.  He is doing a terrific job. 

Norman to Norma at dinner needed to be said.  Everything he said was true; doesn't excuse him, but true.  I also loved Norma yelling at him about not telling her what to do; she has had ENOUGH of men and boys pushing themselves on her, similar to her screaming at Chick. 

Norman's creep factor was off the charts - wanting to get into bed with her, his continued obsession with Norma having sex; the PEEPING on his mother, the scary ax wielding at Romero.  Still, like Spartan Girl I can still see flashes of S1 Norman though.   This is that repressed, mentally ill boy struggling to be a man the way he thinks it should be done - accepting what Norma had always told him, that it would be just the two of them and now verbally trying to smack her down when she asserts herself.   He has a child like mentality exacerbated by being mentally ill and is playing at being adult by putting on a facade, which he has seen Norma do his whole life. 

No way Romero puts up with this for much longer.  Plus the feds are sniffing around.  You can practically hear the bells tolling doom.

Aw Dylan - it's too late, I don't think you've escaped the Norma/Norman black hole, though I hope you can.  Did Dylan ever tell Norma that Norman came at him with mallet in blacked out state?  Or that he saw Norman dressed up as Norma in the kitchen?

Edited May 3, 2016 by raven

[thuganomics85]

Freddie Highmore apparently wrote this episode!  I'm sure he had some notes and help from the showrunners and whatnot, but that's still pretty neat. Sounds like this is becoming more then just an acting job for him.

The tension and intensity just keeps increasing this season.  I'm glad Norma at least told Norman the truth in this episode, but it's wait too late, I suspect.  Norman is not going to accept her and Romero, and I really fear for both of their lives.  Romero is a bigger (or possibly dumber) person then I am after that axe scene.  He so should have just hightailed it out of there as soon as Norman started pointing it at him in that threatening manner.  I hope Romero uses this to try and convince Norma to commit him to White Panes for good, but I'm 100% sure it won't work.

The dinner scene was crazy as expected and Norman has gone beyond unhinged, but amongst all that, he actually was right about how Norma's overprotectiveness has effected him and she was hypocritical on that level.  I remember how crazy she was over just the idea of him and Bradley, and while I'm not going to say Bradley (RIP) was the best girlfriend for him, Norman at least earned the right to date like a normal human being, and learn about heartbreak and finding the right person.  But he never really got any of that because Norma was so controlling.  The only time she was ever accepting of a girlfriend was Emma, and I suspect that was because she didn't find Emma to be a threat to her "innocent boy", due to her illness.  But this is what I like about this show in it's own twisted way.  I find both Norman and Norma tragic in their own way, both made mistakes, and sadly this will end with both paying for it in their own ways.

Uh oh!  Dylan and Emma now have sex, which according to most TV/horror law, means something bad is going to happen to at least one of them. Just go, you two!  Don't stop by the hotel and say good-bye!  Just haul your ass to Seattle and maybe send everyone a nice letter or Skye message. But I know that will not happen.

So, it looks like Romero's banker ex's main purpose is be used as another threat to Romero, by having the DEA use her to try and bring him down. Have no idea how this will play out in the endgame.

The show still manages to work some humor amongst everything.  Norman and Norma's argument while looking for Christmas trees was perfect. Vera Farmiga and Freddie Highmore are just so much fun together. 

Two episodes left for the season!  No way do I see this not ending with at least one major death.  Maybe even more.

[Jade Foxx]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

No way do I see this not ending with at least one major death.  Maybe even more.

Including mine, if one can die from having an anxiety attack whilst watching this all unfold!

Whew. Talk about an overwhelming sense of dread....

Great episode. Norma and Norman having their spat between the Christmas trees cracked me up.

RUN FAR AND FAST, DYLAN AND EMMA!  SCRAM, HIGHTAIL IT, DON'T LOOK BACK

[Luckylyn]

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Freddie Highmore apparently wrote this episode!  I'm sure he had some notes and help from the showrunners and whatnot, but that's still pretty neat. Sounds like this is becoming more then just an acting job for him.

 

Uh oh!  Dylan and Emma now have sex, which according to most TV/horror law, means something bad is going to happen to at least one of them. Just go, you two!  Don't stop by the hotel and say good-bye!  Just haul your ass to Seattle and maybe send everyone a nice letter or Skye message. But I know that will not happen.

I didn't realize Freddie wrote this episode.  He did a great job.  The build up in the tension was so well done.

I'm in total agreement about wanting Dylan/Emma to just escape before something happens to one or both of them.

[queenanne]

Dylan feels like he's being "dragged into a black hole" and "can't live"?

Ut-oh...  

[sugarbaker design]

At this point I'm worried for every main character on the canvas.  It's not a question of who will die this season, but how many will die this season.

[ari333]

Weird. THe DVR didn't pick this up. Maybe it's on On Demand.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Freddie Highmore apparently wrote this episode!

And last week Nestor Carbonell directed. I wouldn't be surprised if Vera also took a hand in writing or directing some episodes. I think these brilliant actors want to control how their characters are portrayed because they have climbed inside their skin by now.

[islandgal140]

This show has become nerve wracking, which means it is doing its job and then some. It just gets more and more claustrophobic and stifling as each episode passes. Like watching people slowly choke to death in an airless room. Only thing is the people you are watching don't yet realize they are about to run out of oxygen. So disconcerting. So disturbing. So damn good!  

I'm so glad Norman told Norma about herself during that dinner scene. It is incredibly hypocritical for Norma to have cut off all avenues for Norman to have any type of relationship with anyone else but her (romantic or otherwise - he couldn't even do after school activities without her making a federal case and accusing him of abandoning her), but than when she finally finds a man, now suddenly there's enough love to go around and we need our own lives and space? 

I just can't fathom sleeping under the same roof with someone just released from a mental institution yesterday against doctor's orders who said they hated you while holding an axe looking like they wanted to cleave you in two with it. Romero ought to know better. It just never fails to surprise how everyone around Norman has either failed him miserably or looked the other way and made allowances for .... reasons. Every time Norma lies about Norman not being violent, I just want to shake her. HARD!

With all walls closing on all sides, Chick and the DEA gunning for Romero as a dirty cop, perhaps Romero been found out as the killer of Bob, I can see how Norman might slip under the radar to kill again. 

[Nutjob]

Quote

Romero ought to know better.

He should, but his cop instincts definitely took over, as did his urge to protect Norma. For all his flaws, I'm completely sold that Romero has fallen for our crazy Norma and really doesn't want to see anything bad happen to her. He knows Norman is a threat, but also knows this situation is... complicated beyond belief.

 

At first, I didn't know if Norman was going to spy on Emma and Dylan or Norma and Romero. I couldn't make up my mind at first which would be creepier, but it's DEFINITELY worse to watch your mother have sex. Just... ick.

[designing1]

1 hour ago, ari333 said:

Weird. THe DVR didn't pick this up. Maybe it's on On Demand.

You can watch it on aetv.com.

[ari333]

Wow thanks. Can I see yesterday's eppy? Let me go check. Thanks!

[designing1]

Yes, the episodes are available the day after they air...for which I am very grateful, as I've cut my cable package to the bone and don't get A&E.

[mwell345]

The big red flag for me was the repairman telling Norma that turning on the old furnace could gas them.  Norman heard every word.

[RCharter]

16 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

As inappropriate and disturbed as Norman is, I think he had a valid point about Norma keeping him too close all these years.   She helped create this dynamic and has outgrown it, and Norman feeling abandoned makes some sense.  Of course, Norma isn't abandoning him but trying to make room for Romero, but Norman isn't capable of feeling anything except threatened.  I feel like Norma has gotten healthier as Norman has become less healthy.  

I love the pairing Dylan and Emma so much and want them out of there.  Norma/Norman are the sinking ship and Emma is Dylan's life raft.  I'm worried something will happen to make him stay, and it will be his doom.

 

He saw that bear, and said he wouldn't give up looking for Emma's mother....I don't know....

I feel like the cracked furnace leaking gas is going to come into play at some point, I just don't know if its going to take out Norma and Romero, just Romero, Romero and Dylan or what the deal is.

16 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Crap I didn't know someone else started a thread. Oh well.

That dinner scene was so intense. I know Norman is way off the deep end, but I loved him finally calling Norma out on her double standard. She wanted to be the only woman in his life for so long, but now that she's got a new husband he's supposed to step aside and not interfere.

It was almost sad watching his one scene with Emma because that was the only moment where it was the old sweet Norman. The rest of the episode he was playing the cuckholded husband to a T, right to that disturbing scene of him weeping while watching Norma and Romero through the peephole. Yikes.

When he came at him with the axe, I really thought that was it. But it's coming. I can feel it...

See, I was wondering if that wasn't Mother?  It seemed like such a "lady in a rocking chair pulling the covers up around her" type pose...and the way Norman was talking....I don't know.  It was probably Norman, it was just sort of giving me Mother vibes too.

I did agree with Norman on the part about the double standards, they are both messed up. 

[Avaleigh]

3 hours ago, mwell345 said:

The big red flag for me was the repairman telling Norma that turning on the old furnace could gas them.  Norman heard every word.

This is what I was coming to post about. That's how Norman is going to kill them both. I'm just not sure if the authorities will chalk it up to being an accident or suicide but the repairman definitely spelled it out. The only thing about this is that there would be no final confrontation between Norma, Alex, and Norman and I'm not sure how I'd feel about that. I always assumed that Norman would look his mother in the face before he killed her and that reliving it would be what made him unable to deal with the reality that he committed matricide in addition to double murder.

I agree that Norma needed to hear that outburst about how her abnormal behavior is what helped lead to this situation. Frankly, Romero needed to hear it too because he hasn't really seen that creepy ass side of Norma that treated Norman like a pseudo husband. It was also incorrect when Romero said that it's hard for Norman because it's always just been the two of them. Norman's asshole father was in the picture and Dylan has always been around for the most part. Her relationship with Dylan was distant but when she considered fleeing her abusive rapist husband, she didn't think about leaving Dylan behind. 

Norma doesn't treat Romero very well at all. This isn't just about her being damaged. She's a selfish individual and I don't really see what she's done to earn such devotion from Alex when she isn't offering much loyalty in return. 

I hate that she's screwing up such a good thing they could have had. 

I also felt angry at the way Norman belittled the first great relationship that she's ever had in her life. He should be happy for her. Seriously, Norman's going to knock everything that she's been doing that's been making her happy? He's such a little snotty shit. Norma was so happy making those curtains so of course Norman has to insult them. The idea of Norma and Alex doing something simple like enjoying movies together is a capital offense.

I cringed when Norman was watching them through the peephole because I was sure that he was going to start jerking off. He's actually worse now than when he left for Pine View.

I'm very curious what his next session will be like. 

Great episode. 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Avaleigh

[mwell345]

Quote

 

The episode was full of subtle little things  - the repairman's comment, and also Norma asking Dylan and Emma to stop by the next morning before they left.  Dylan and Emma have been sort of wasted so far this season, while I think Emma could go to Washington and not be missed, Dylan has always been a fairly integral part of the show, so there has to be something that stops him from going to Washington. 

[Avaleigh]

1 minute ago, mwell345 said:

The episode was full of subtle little things  - the repairman's comment, and also Norma asking Dylan and Emma to stop by the next morning before they left.  Dylan and Emma have been sort of wasted so far this season, while I think Emma could go to Washington and not be missed, Dylan has always been a fairly integral part of the show, so there has to be something that stops him from going to Washington. 

I've been trying to figure out how Emma's mother's body might be discovered but don't see how that could happen without implicating Norman and we all know that Norman is going to get away with everything that happens in this series. 

Maybe they'll leave and come back after something happens with Norma and Alex?

One of the most painful moments in the episode for me was Alex hearing that Norma was hiding in the bathroom so that she could talk to him. He disrupted his entire life for her and has made sacrifices and she's hurting his feelings at every turn while there's seemingly no end to his patience and understanding. 

I didn't even really see the old Norman in his scenes with Emma. He's so cold he couldn't even stand up to give her a hug. I also haven't forgotten about how he lied to the doctor acting like he was so concerned about Emma after her surgery that he wanted to find out how she was doing only to use Emma so that he could be creepy with Norma. Norman is not a good friend to Emma and hasn't been one since back in the second season. He doesn't seem like he cares about her at all. Norman is just as selfish as Norma is from what I've seen.

Quote

I feel like Norma has gotten healthier as Norman has become less healthy.  

I absolutely agree with this. The problem is, Norma was so damaged that even though she's better now she still has miles to go before she becomes 'healthy'. She's a lot healthier than Norman but that isn't saying all that much. 

Frankly, I'm surprised that Alex isn't side eyeing Norma's role in all of this. He seems to think that it's all Norman and doesn't seem to recognize that there is something deeply fucked up about his new wife. Knowing that she's been raped by more than one man and that one of these men was her brother and seeing Norman acting like a jealous husband--I'm not saying he should dump Norma, quite the opposite. I'm rooting for Norma and Romero and hope that they have some more happiness before it's all snatched away. I'm just wondering why he isn't asking a few more questions at this point. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I cringed when Norman was watching them through the peephole because I was sure that he was going to start jerking off.

So was I. It was startling to see that single tear rolling down his cheek. I thought it was epic. And speaking of the actors taking over writing and directing duties: I noticed the house itself looking a lot more forbidding and even Gothic this week. I think that like Anthony Perkins before them, they get that the House is very much a main character in this tragedy.

[mwell345]

43 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

One of the most painful moments in the episode for me was Alex hearing that Norma was hiding in the bathroom so that she could talk to him. He disrupted his entire life for her and has made sacrifices and she's hurting his feelings at every turn while there's seemingly no end to his patience and understanding. 

Yes...the look on his face when he realized it.  

[FilmTVGeek80]

Quote

One of the most painful moments in the episode for me was Alex hearing that Norma was hiding in the bathroom so that she could talk to him. He disrupted his entire life for her and has made sacrifices and she's hurting his feelings at every turn while there's seemingly no end to his patience and understanding. 

Yeah, that was a horrible cringe-worthy moment. I felt so bad for him and I have to imagine he was wondering, even though he loves Norma so much, just what he signed himself up for.

Wow, I don't if or what kind of help Freddie had writing this episode, but regardless bang up job on his first screenwriting credit. The episode was well-built and some of the dialogue was really on point (the argument at the Christmas tree lot, the dinner table meltdown.)

My God, Dylan and Emma close the door before you're about to have sex. For some reason as soon as he walked into that room I knew it would probably lead to a love scene (it probably says a lot about how much they've wasted Dylan and Emma this season that I couldn't think of what another purpose for the additional scene between them) so I immediately cringed when he didn't close the door all the way. I know they tried to set up that Will was asleep, and apparently deep sleep since he was snoring so loud, but still the least they could have down was close the door if they're going to have sex with her father a hallway or whatever away.

Ugh, Norma! She's such a complex character and it's amazing how I can sometimes instantaneously go from wanting to strangle her to wanting to hug her. Had many moments like that in this episode. As usual, I think she was trying her best, but she really didn't handle the situation well at all. I wish that, other than warning her not to let Norman out, that either Dylan or Alex, had suggested that she seek some therapy herself (and not from some idiot she would end up sleeping with.) If not to talk about her own issues, then at least to know how to better handle situations with Norman. She shouldn't have agreed to sleeping in the same bed together. There was no reason for her to lie about stupid little things, like lying over why the Western was in the house.

Constantly lying to Norman and coddling him only to then blow up at him wasn't super smart. A part of me was glad that she put her foot down at the end, but she should have acknowledged that Norman definitely had a point when he talked about how possessive she used to be over him and how she isolated him.

I definitely had an "Alex, how dumb are you?" moment when he decided to seek Norman out after his outburst. It probably wasn't his place and it just seemed like it was destined to make things worse. I actually didn't think he was that dumb for choosing to stay after their confrontation. He's a cop and he loves Norma, so of course he'd want to watch out for Norma and think he could handle the situation.

I probably should have felt more for Dylan during his talk with Emma at the Christmas tree lot, but I just wasn't feeling it. He's right that Norman and Norma are messed up and are probably not going to change, but the way he talked about them dragging him into their black hole just didn't really jibe for me in what we've seen on-screen over the years. Yeah, Dylan has had to deal with a lot of crazy Norma and/or Norman moments - tops probably being Norma flipping out and running away and then having to deal with a mentally spiraling Norman and him dressing up as Norma in the kitchen. But because Dylan's storyline had usually kept him segregated from Norma and Norman for a good deal of the time, I've never really felt like Dylan has been really adversely affected by anything that's been going on with Norma and Norman. I mean, when and if they find out Norman killed Emma's mom, it will affect him somewhat, but it's not like Norma or Norman has deliberately tried to drag him into their situation. Immediately this season after they found out Norman was in a mental hospital, Dylan decided to peace out to check on Emma and Norman didn't give him any grief over it. Other than one moment of frustration, she hasn't yelled at him about moving or begged him to stay to help with Norman.

Dylan's never seemed to have had trouble separating himself from his family. Even a couple of episodes again, he talked about how when things were bad with Norman's father, he just kept away from the house more and more. I just don't feel like Dylan has this desperate need to escape his family.The scene just mostly felt like potential foreshadowing.

I hate to say it, because I used to really love Dylan, but this season has made it so that if he is a major death this seasons, I won't be as sad as I would have been. To me it's almost better him (or Emma) now than Norma or Alex (who I know will bite it eventually, but still...)

That line about the furnace is definitely going to come back in some way. I don't know if it will harm Norma and/or Alex, possibly Dylan.

Edited May 3, 2016 by FilmTVGeek80

[Anela]

I was thinking the same about Norman's outburst, and what he said about his mother. I felt so bad for him as he said that, because it's true. Now here she is, happy and glowing, in love, and as someone said above, suddenly it's okay for someone else to be there. I can understand why he isn't falling over himself with happiness for his mother. 

Edited May 4, 2016 by Anela

[Fable]

I know episodes are getting a bit more awkward and more tense, but I didn't think anything would happen to Romero.  The ex still had things to say about him, which led me to believe he had more plot left to go.  

[Guest]

7 hours ago, mwell345 said:

The episode was full of subtle little things  - the repairman's comment, and also Norma asking Dylan and Emma to stop by the next morning before they left.  Dylan and Emma have been sort of wasted so far this season, while I think Emma could go to Washington and not be missed, Dylan has always been a fairly integral part of the show, so there has to be something that stops him from going to Washington. 

Emma going missing will stop Dylan from going.  As in because Norman killed her.  Another subtle thing was this... didn't Norma give Emma her coat or scarf or something, when they talked about Emma's coat being wet from hot chocolate or something?   I can see Emma wearing it on her last visit to their house and Norman killing her by mistake, thinking she's Norma. 

We both had to walk away for that axe scene.  It's almost getting too uncomfortable.  I'm not sure I like knowing that the innocent bystanders are going to die.  Norma I actually don't care about.  She used to have a sweet, funny side but now I just blame her and her horrible parenting for 99% of this. 

[RCharter]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Emma going missing will stop Dylan from going.  As in because Norman killed her.  Another subtle thing was this... didn't Norma give Emma her coat or scarf or something, when they talked about Emma's coat being wet from hot chocolate or something?   I can see Emma wearing it on her last visit to their house and Norman killing her by mistake, thinking she's Norma. 

We both had to walk away for that axe scene.  It's almost getting too uncomfortable.  I'm not sure I like knowing that the innocent bystanders are going to die.  Norma I actually don't care about.  She used to have a sweet, funny side but now I just blame her and her horrible parenting for 99% of this. 

I would assume that Dylan would drop it off before he left...and he would confront Norman/Norma about Emma's mother.  Dylan saw that teddy bear that belonged to Emma, and so I think he is suspicious.  To me, though, even from the back Norma and Emma look totally different, but perhaps he will be blinded by rage?

I feel like focusing in on Dylan seeing that teddy bear means something...I'm not sure what...but something.

[spiderpig]

I kept wondering during the whole freezing house scenes why they just didn't take advantage of the "12 rooms, 12 vacancies".

[rue721]

9 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Frankly, I'm surprised that Alex isn't side eyeing Norma's role in all of this. He seems to think that it's all Norman and doesn't seem to recognize that there is something deeply fucked up about his new wife.

Alex's nonchalance isn't surprising to me, because I think that Norman's angst over accepting Alex as his stepfather is actually one of the most normal things about him so far. I mean, it's weird that Norman expresses his fear/anger through hysterical outbursts and by violently swinging an ax around, etc, but the fear/anger itself is pretty understandable imo.  Especially since Norma has such a terrible history with men that Norman has pretty legitimate reasons to be suspicious of anybody she brings home.

 

11 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

It was also incorrect when Romero said that it's hard for Norman because it's always just been the two of them. Norman's asshole father was in the picture and Dylan has always been around for the most part. Her relationship with Dylan was distant but when she considered fleeing her abusive rapist husband, she didn't think about leaving Dylan behind.

 

Yeah, Alex was incorrect -- and, judging from Norman's flashback last episode, Norman's asshole father being in the picture was a big part of why Norma and Norman became so close in the first place. I mean, they seemed to be clinging to each other for comfort and security because he terrorized them. If they'd been alone, they wouldn't have had to cling to each other like that, and probably wouldn't have become so close.

 

I didn't really put much weight on Norma not leaving Dylan behind in that flashback, though. If Norman was six or seven, then Dylan would have only been ten or eleven years old. And given that he seems to have absolutely no relationship with his dad (or the man he thought was his dad until he found out about Caleb, anyway), he was probably completely dependent on Norma. Just because Norma wasn't willing to orphan her fifth grader doesn't mean that she had much of a relationship with him, though.

 

I mostly bring that up because Dylan's absence in that flashback was pretty strange/significant to me. Even though they apparently care about each other now, it seems like Dylan was more-or-less a nonentity to Norman when they were growing up? I mean, Norman said specifically that their escape failed because they couldn't find Dylan, and then there was that whole horrific sequence of the consequences Norma and Norman suffered for getting caught -- but there was no mention of what happened once Dylan finally got home. I find it hard to believe that Dylan didn't face pretty significant consequence from Norma for being (in a sense) to blame for the HELL that Norman and Norma caught from Sam when they tried and failed to escape -- but it seems like whatever happened to/with Dylan had no impact on Norman? Norman just seems indifferent to everything/everyone except Norma and himself. I mean, Dylan did live with them at the time, but it seems like he didn't really have much of a relationship with either of them? Idk. I guess that has turned out to be a good thing for Dylan. I wonder what would have been different if he'd turned out to be the crazy one.

 

9 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I probably should have felt more for Dylan during his talk with Emma at the Christmas tree lot, but I just wasn't feeling it. He's right that Norman and Norma are messed up and are probably not going to change, but the way he talked about them dragging him into their black hole just didn't really jibe for me in what we've seen on-screen over the years.

Yeah, I felt the same way.

 

To me, it never seemed like Norma and Norman were pulling Dylan in. Instead, it seemed like Norma and Norman were constantly pushing Dylan away, and it was Dylan who kept circling closer and closer, trying to find some way into the family. So Dylan's therapy-esque revelation at the Xmas tree stand didn't really ring true to me.

 

Also, I was kind of appalled at Dylan just being like "eh, I'm over it" about his family like that. He's had a girlfriend for approximately two minutes, and already he's dumping his whole life and everyone he used to care about for her? The show keeps framing that like it's sweet and a good thing, I guess because Dylan's "whole life and everyone he used to care about" was pretty crummy, but it's still like...Dylan, cool your jets, kid! Being Emma's boyfriend doesn't have to be your ENTIRE identity!

[RCharter]

Dylan said at some point that he just sort of left the house and was on his own.  This may be why he wasn't in the flashback.

Norman's father was an abusive rapist asshole.....however, I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that he didn't really matter all that much to Norma and felt resentment as soon as Norman came on the scene.  

I could totally see a situation where Norma marries this guy just to get away from Caleb/be taken care of....but she doesn't really love him....and he is a mean drunk, so she can't even really learn to love him, or even really like him.  Norman is born and he becomes her world and so the father is essentially "left out" and grows more and more resentful...which pushes Norma and Norman even closer together.

This is part of the reason why I think it has always been the two of them.  Because the father didn't really matter, he was an outsider looking in.  Even if he lived in the same house, ate at the same table and slept in the same bed.  He was still always an outsider.  Romero has been the first guy to really be "in."  Even Dylan, made note of the same thing.....how much he had longed to be "inside" with Norma and Norman, but now he just wants to get the hell away from their nuttiness.

[molshoop]

I still think that Norman isn't going to kill Norma until the end of the last season of the show.

There is no way that they want to lose Vera. And without her to play against, Norman wont
be as interesting a character.

The show has already been renewed for another season, with the possibility of more to come.

 I think watching Norman/Mother kill one female guest after another would get boring.

[mwell345]

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I would assume that Dylan would drop it off before he left...and he would confront Norman/Norma about Emma's mother.  Dylan saw that teddy bear that belonged to Emma, and so I think he is suspicious.  To me, though, even from the back Norma and Emma look totally different, but perhaps he will be blinded by rage?

I feel like focusing in on Dylan seeing that teddy bear means something...I'm not sure what...but something.

Yeah, the teddy bear - I wondered about that too. 

I think he will drop the coat off before he leaves - and by that time Norman will have turned the gas on - and Dylan will find them, and probably save them. I don't believe Norman knows Norma asked him to stop by.  But where will Norman be?????

[peacheslatour]

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I could totally see a situation where Norma marries this guy just to get away from Caleb/be taken care of....but she doesn't really love him....and he is a mean drunk, so she can't even really learn to love him, or even really like him.  Norman is born and he becomes her world and so the father is essentially "left out" and grows more and more resentful...which pushes Norma and Norman even closer together.

Norma married Mr. Massett to get away from Caleb IIRC. Then she married Mr. Bates and had Norman. I think at some point Dylan must have lived with his "dad".

[ganesh]

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RUN FAR AND FAST, DYLAN AND EMMA!  SCRAM, HIGHTAIL IT, DON'T LOOK BACK

DO IT NAO PLZ.

Norman was off the charts and relentless. Though, yes, he did have a point. But that's the point of the show. There's little things here and there; let Norman join the track team; date Bradley, not lie to him about Romero, that gives the tragic element to Norma which we all know how it ends. 

The thing is, there hasn't been Mother in a while and Norman is way way creepier. 

Romero said the absolute *wrongest* thing possible when he and Norman were outside. 

The whole way he said "of course" and so many times was putting me on edge so hard. But Norma "stop leaping out of trees at me". She still brings it. 

[queenanne]

Alex is really potentially very helpful and handy for this dynamic even though we know the ultimate end, because of his training as a law enforcement professional.  I was thinking, if not actively saying, recently for example; that his reaction to Norma-Caleb-Dylan was probably colored by the fact that he's had training in how to deal with these types of fraught domestic situations.

Also, switching focus to Norman's reactive feelings of betrayal, fear, and bewilderment, is a smart, good way to try to fetch back some goodwill for him from the audience members whom he may already have been losing too early for viewer identification sake.

[maczero]

On 5/3/2016 at 2:41 PM, RCharter said:

See, I was wondering if that wasn't Mother?  It seemed like such a "lady in a rocking chair pulling the covers up around her" type pose...and the way Norman was talking....I don't know.  It was probably Norman, it was just sort of giving me Mother vibes too.

In my opinion, I don't think the Mother personality manifests in Norma's presence.

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He should, but his cop instincts definitely took over, as did his urge to protect Norma. For all his flaws, I'm completely sold that Romero has fallen for our crazy Norma and really doesn't want to see anything bad happen to her. He knows Norman is a threat, but also knows this situation is... complicated beyond belief.

 

It's complicated but Romero is pragmatic (if not ruthless) when it comes to dealing with threats.  I'm calling foul if he doesn't push Norma to having Norman committed after this.

[truthaboutluv]

Work has kicked my ass these last two weeks so I only got around to watching this episode yesterday and will watch Monday's episode tonight. Everyone else has already said it, but I definitely agree with the consensus of Norman's speech to Norma about how she fostered this "it's just you and me" relationship and mentality between them and have been saying that for multiple scenes. And now that she's found someone and is happy, she expects Norman to simply accept and adjust. And that would not be so unreasonable for a SANE person but I think we can all accept now that that is in no way Norman. Even Norma who still wants to convince herself that Norman is not dangerous and violent, knows he's unstable and insane.

I did crack up at the scene at the Christmas Tree lot, especially Norma's, "pfft...what does that mean, anyone can do that." And then she proceeds to do it repeatedly while on the verge of one of her classic screaming tantrums. I'm still unsure with where they're going with Dylan and Emma. It seems unlikely that Norman will kill either one because Dylan doesn't even live there and this episode said they're leaving for Seattle the next day. Best guess is that shit hits the fan with Norman and Romero and Norma tells Dylan and he sticks around to help, with Emma leaving. And that may turn out to be very bad for Dylan. 

 

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I probably should have felt more for Dylan during his talk with Emma at the Christmas tree lot, but I just wasn't feeling it. He's right that Norman and Norma are messed up and are probably not going to change, but the way he talked about them dragging him into their black hole just didn't really jibe for me in what we've seen on-screen over the years.

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To me, it never seemed like Norma and Norman were pulling Dylan in. Instead, it seemed like Norma and Norman were constantly pushing Dylan away, and it was Dylan who kept circling closer and closer, trying to find some way into the family. So Dylan's therapy-esque revelation at the Xmas tree stand didn't really ring true to me.

Agree with both comments. In the first season, Dylan is the one who tracked down Norma and Norman after he showed up at the old residence, only to find out Norman's dad was dead and Norma and Norman had up and moved. And when he came, Norma was pretty hostile and didn't want him around and told him as such. However he pretty much said he wasn't leaving because he had nowhere to go. And as fucked up as Norma and Norman and their relationship is, Dylan himself is no saint and he brought his own shit on them as well with his drug dealings. Norman ended up trapped in some hole underground because of Norma's dealing with that drug guy and Dylan's also pissing the guy off and refusing to do a job for them. So his whole, "they drag me down..." thing was kind of bullshit and I like Dylan. 

 

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I didn't even really see the old Norman in his scenes with Emma. He's so cold he couldn't even stand up to give her a hug. I also haven't forgotten about how he lied to the doctor acting like he was so concerned about Emma after her surgery that he wanted to find out how she was doing only to use Emma so that he could be creepy with Norma. Norman is not a good friend to Emma and hasn't been one since back in the second season. He doesn't seem like he cares about her at all. Norman is just as selfish as Norma is from what I've seen.

Norman hasn't always been the greatest friend to Emma, true and that's going back to Season 1 where in that case it was more an issue of him being an insensitive teenage boy. For example, when he spent most of the dance staring longingly at Bradley, while he was there with Emma. That being said, I don't view him not standing up immediately for a hug when she walked into the room as some huge sign of his coldness and I still don't think his using her as an excuse to call Norma was this awful, evil act either. The non-hug when Emma walked into the room, I just chalk up to the natural weirdness that now exists between them with his one, having ended up in a mental institution and her dating his brother.

And that's why Norman eventually said, "so should we just say it and get it over with?" Not to mention it's been a few months I believe since they've seen each other and so much happened in that time. There was just a natural, initial awkwardness. But maybe it's because Freddie does the blubbering, teary eyes thing so well but I do think Norman was as genuine as he's been in quite awhile when he thanked Emma for being his friend right from the start and being in his life. 

Edited May 11, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Guest]

Season 1 Dylan was an entirely different character, in my opinion.  Didn't he have Norma in his phone as 'bitch'?  He was a grade A asshole then.  They really turned him 180 degrees. 

[pancake bacon]

5 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Season 1 Dylan was an entirely different character, in my opinion.  Didn't he have Norma in his phone as 'bitch'?  He was a grade A asshole then.  They really turned him 180 degrees. 

Two thoughts come to mind on this:

1) "Grade A asshole" is a bit much. More like around "Grade C minus".  In light of the conversation between Norma and Dylan in the following episode, Dylan did have cause to perceive his mother as a "bitch." It's fair to imagine all the times that Dylan was ignored or forgotten or looked over when he was younger. (I even seem to imagine that Norman grew up an only child, the way this show presents things. Was Dylan left behind by Norma with his Masset "dad"?)

2) And yes, the show did turn the character around greatly, and Dylan seems to be very reasonable, savvy and thoughtful. Given his troubled background, it would have been very unlikely, but thanks to writers and Max Thieriot's performance, I buy the transformation. 

[RemyRose]

To be fair, Dylan had Norma typed in his phone as "The Whore" do to her cheating on his dad and eventually leaving his dad for Sam. Dylan  could have been legitimately hurt/damaged over that entire situation. Even she admitted that's how it went down a few episodes ago to Romero.

Plus the fact that he told her she has never been a real mother to him and her response to that pretty much says it all. I've never been so pissed off at a scene before in my life. It was just that painful.

And I have aunts who abandon my cousins (their daughters) due to drug abuse, didn't raise them passed elementary school and my cousins NEVER call my aunts mom or mother. They always address them by their first name. Why? Because their hurt, upset that they didn't have a mom and had to fend for themselves at an early age. So I get where Dylan is coming from. He just wants to be wanted and loved.

Edited May 12, 2016 by RemyRose