All My Children - General Discussion

[ByaNose]

I smell bomb with this. If it’s once a week it isn’t going to work. I know there plenty of prime time soaps back in the day but I doubt anyone would watch AMC. Also, is it going to be on tape or filmed? Who is coming back? They would have to ask Susan Lucci just out of respect but she’s 73 and I think she can only play sex kitten which is something I’m not looking for. LOL!!!! Also, I can’t think of one thing that’s been a hit for Ripa & her husband with their production company. I think they’ve done some documentaries but not much else.  I will give them credit for attempting it but I think the Prospect Park version was more in line of what daytime soap viewers were looking for. Time will tell.......

[Joimiaroxeu]

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I think the Prospect Park version was more in line of what daytime soap viewers were looking for.

I do too but maybe they were a bit ahead of the curve. I don't think most of the older soap audience at that time was ready to do streaming yet. Now more people have gotten used to it, especially during the pandemic. Plus, Prospect Park was kind of arrogant IMO about how they were "saving" our soap. Yeah, look how that worked out.

I also think though the show would need to switch to a weekly format or it'll probably be expensive for the the average user to watch every day. (Plus expensive to produce.)

If SMG is brought on to play Kendall that would be a complete no go for me. It's Alicia Minshew or nobody AFAIC. And I don't want to see Cameron Mathison or Rebecca Budig either.

[boes]

51 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

If SMG is brought on to play Kendall that would be a complete no go for me. It's Alicia Minshew or nobody AFAIC. And I don't want to see Cameron Mathison or Rebecca Budig either.

Having those two infestations back would make this pretty much unwatchable.

[Hiyo]

I’m ok if SMG played Kendall again.

 

[methodwriter85]

I really can't see how this is going to work. Primetime soapy dramas about rich people haven't done that well on network t.v. in awhile, especially on ABC. I feel like this might be able to work on Hulu- I thought the Prospect Park version was done pretty well. I just wasn't feeling the "Miranda is a not-lesbian being bullied for being a lesbian" storyline...it was incredibly lame and the show seemed to forget that they're in a liberal area like 2018 suburban Philadelphia. It would have made way more sense if Miranda had hooked up with the guy and he sent her nudes all over and she was slut-shamed for that. 

Anyway, I wish them the best of luck but this makes way more sense on Hulu. Or they could have done an 18-minute version along with One Life to Live and given them the Spew time slot. Or this could have moved to Oprah's Own network. They have several soapy dramas there that have been running for awhile, and they probably would have upped the Jesse/Cassandra family element which would have been a plus.

I also wonder if we're treating the 2013 reboot as canon. I don't think Haley and Mateo showed up, so there isn't much they'd have to disregard if we assume they're the main characters.

I'd assume most of the characters will be recast. They might keep Miranda and AJ as 16-year olds. They'd actually be the right age.

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I think the main reason the new Dynasty is working is because it has very little plot and is mostly a showcase for women's clothing and interior design.

Bingo. It is mainly to hang out with Liz Gillies for an hour each week and that's why it works. Also, Netflix saved its ass and that's why they're approaching syndication levels of episodes. The CW rarely cancels shows, especially ones that are filmed for cheap like Dynasty.

Dallas flopped in my opinion because Jesse Metcalfe is just not a good dramatic leading man. He's cute and he's perfect for Hallmark movies, but he simply could not lead a drama.

Edited December 19, 2020 by methodwriter85

[Evie]

13 hours ago, SingerIslander said:

Based on Kelly Ripa's anniversary celebration on LIVE with Kelly and Ryan just a few months ago, I think you can add Sarah Michelle Gellar to that list too, and that won't work for me.  SMG is a good actress with an Emmy to her credit from playing Kendall but for 10 years, Alicia Minshew was Kendall, building a beautiful relationship with Binks and Erica, falling in love and raising her boys.  I loved AM's Kendall and didn't particularly like SMG's.  

If it happens, that kind of casting, hiring a good friend over the one who played the role longer and as an adult who actually grew and matured in that time frame, would make me think this show is more of a vanity project for Kelly, her hubby and her friends, each of whom hadn't been on AMC for years (other than some cameos in 2011), rather than a sincere reboot.  I know that's a cynical way of looking at it, and hey, it might not happen.  Maybe SMG would rather do other things or would be too busy to play Kendall again.  But if it goes that way, I'd be very disappointed.  

 

If this gets off the ground and Kendall is one of the characters, I would prefer Minshew, but ABC is going to have a say too and SMG would make more sense from a business standpoint. But we're talking about a lot of "If's" here. 

[methodwriter85]

2 minutes ago, Evie said:

If this gets off the ground and Kendall is one of the characters, I would prefer Minshew, but ABC is going to have a say too and SMG would make more sense from a business standpoint. But we're talking about a lot of "If's" here. 

Agreed. I would imagine that they'd try to get Sarah Michelle Gellar. She'd be likely to be down for it. 

Again though, I just don't see how this could work as a network primetime drama. It'd have a better shot on a streamer like Hulu or a cable network like Own. The latter would especially work if they upped the Cassandra/Jessie family.

[tessaray]

I'm all for it, if only for the possibility of OLTL getting another chance as well. And maybe they'd lure TK away from B&B. Win, win... 🙂

[JAYJAY1979]

6 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I do too but maybe they were a bit ahead of the curve. I don't think most of the older soap audience at that time was ready to do streaming yet. Now more people have gotten used to it, especially during the pandemic. Plus, Prospect Park was kind of arrogant IMO about how they were "saving" our soap. Yeah, look how that worked out.

I also think though the show would need to switch to a weekly format or it'll probably be expensive for the the average user to watch every day. (Plus expensive to produce.)

If SMG is brought on to play Kendall that would be a complete no go for me. It's Alicia Minshew or nobody AFAIC. And I don't want to see Cameron Mathison or Rebecca Budig either.

From what I recall...the viewership #s for the 2013 reboot were strong, but funding fell through.  I actually think it paved the way for streaming to become viable..imho.

A weekly show would work to start and maybe add an additional day if it's successful (peyton place in the 60s did that).

[Hiyo]

Quote

Dynasty flopped in my opinion because Jesse Metcalfe is just not a good dramatic leading man. He's cute and he's perfect for Hallmark movies, but he simply could not lead a drama.

You mean Dallas, and Jesse Metcalfe was never the lead for the Dallas sequel. He was at best one of many leads, so that show's failures can't solely be blamed on him (personally, I thought the show itself was ok, nowhere near as enjoyable as the original at it's best, but still entertaining enough).

Honestly, I'd be fine if this show wasn't rebooted or brought back. For me, the show's glory days, and when it was at it's best, were from the early 80s to the late 90s, overall (yeah even during those days you'd get the occasional clunker of a storyline or character). I kept watching until the mid 2000s, when the decline just got too much, as I then began keeping tabs on the show via the occasional recap. 

Of course if it did come back, I would try and watch it with an open mind, but I'd also come in with very, very low expectations.

 

[Crs97]

I would only watch if Tad and Dixie joined, and both Michael E. Knight and Cady McClain are busy elsewhere.

[Joimiaroxeu]

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both Michael E. Knight and Cady McClain are busy elsewhere.

Cady is a temporary replacement in her role and I think MEK is only recurring in his. I think they could come back if they wanted to (if they were asked).

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maybe they'd lure TK away from B&B. Win, win.

Heh, a win for B&B fans. He is not widely liked in the role. IMO they basically turned a B&B legacy character who was born and raised in California into a Bizarro world version of Zach Slater and it has not gone over well except with perhaps the hardcore TK fans. I wouldn't mind him on the reboot if they also get Alicia back as Kendall.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Joimiaroxeu

[TwoBitUsherette]

According to the articles I've read, the reboot is going to be mostly new characters and focus on - "a young journalist with a secret agenda comes to expose the dark and murderous history of a town named Pine Valley only to become entangled in a feud between the Kane and Santos families."

So I'd guess we'll see Kelly and Mark, Susan, and Eva pop up. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if ABC tries to get SMG. Landing her would be a big win for them.

One thing that does make me feel better is knowing Agnes Nixon's son is an executive producer. Also, the Deadline article has some good information about Andrew Stearn, who is another producer.

Quote

Stearn has been the driving force behind Pine Valley. A lifelong fan, he watched All My Children growing up. Last year, when he was deciding between ABC Signature and one other studio for an overall deal, he chose ABC Signature because it was going to allow him to pursue his dream of rebooting All My Children. He started working toward that goal on Day 1 of his deal, beginning with tracking down the rights.

 

[Irlandesa]

The tricky thing is I'm not sure who this is geared towards. 

The die hard fans of the show are going to expect characters they loved to be played by the actors they've loved in the past but there's no way that ABC will greenlight most of the actors save for potentially Susan Lucci. She has done enough prime time stuff to be considered a cross over actress.

Sarah Michelle Gellar has made the leap out of soaps but the Kendall role she played evolved under Alicia Minshew's reign.  They're very different. 

Also, would they even mine the show's history?  Would they want to show soap clips? 

[methodwriter85]

On 12/21/2020 at 1:29 AM, Irlandesa said:

The tricky thing is I'm not sure who this is geared towards. 

The die hard fans of the show are going to expect characters they loved to be played by the actors they've loved in the past but there's no way that ABC will greenlight most of the actors save for potentially Susan Lucci. She has done enough prime time stuff to be considered a cross over actress.

Sarah Michelle Gellar has made the leap out of soaps but the Kendall role she played evolved under Alicia Minshew's reign.  They're very different. 

Also, would they even mine the show's history?  Would they want to show soap clips? 

It seems like a sweet idea and it's nice that this is from a fan but I can't really see how this will work. It's the same problem with the meta 90210 reboot, which alienated most of their viewers because they wanted to see a drama and instead got a weird fictionalized reality show.

[nickp1991]

I am so excited for Pine Valley I hope Llanview is next

[WhitneyWhit]

I'll watch the first couple of episodes but I'm on the fence about this. Why not just bring AMC back in it's original format? I don't think this is going to do what ABC thinks it will -- I think it could make people even angrier over the cancellation.

 

[Silver Raven]

Alicia Minshew and Susan Lucci to co-star in an upcoming series, "Wholly Broken".

https://www.soapsindepth.com/posts/abc/susan-lucci-and-alicia-minshew-reunite-in-a-new-series

 

[methodwriter85]

On 1/1/2021 at 2:23 AM, WhitneyWhit said:

I'll watch the first couple of episodes but I'm on the fence about this. Why not just bring AMC back in it's original format? I don't think this is going to do what ABC thinks it will -- I think it could make people even angrier over the cancellation.

I'm the same way. As a 90210 fan, I was excited to see it come back, but I thought the faux-reality show deal was clunky, and we should have seen more of the tv-show-within-the-tv show. Now I'm bitter because I thought the show was going to retcon all the bad shit that the 2008 reboot did to the OG characters and it didn't. 

What worked about 90210 was the simplicity of the plot against the really good cast chemistry. 

Anyway, I generally enjoyed the Hulu reboot of the show, although again, the "Not Lesbian Miranda" storyline was absolutely ridiculous and showed how out of touch this show was with actual young people. Colby was a highlight of the show for me and I thought it was a shame I haven't seen much of her. They'd probably try to bring back the Teen Colby actress though because she's having a bit of success with You, but not enough success that she'd blow off an offer by ABC. I could not stand Ambyr Childers when she was a kid but she's improved a bit since then.

I did think AJ screamed gay to me. Maybe it was just the actor, but them trying to get us to believe that there was sexual tension between Miranda and AJ was hilarious because I kept thinking "gay gay gay gay" whenever I looked at AJ. I wonder if the show is going to still try and put them together, assuming those characters are brought back.

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by methodwriter85

[Steph J]

Sigh... I miss Erica:

 

 

[Silver Raven]

Gil Rogers, who played Ray Gardner, has died.

https://www.soapsindepth.com/posts/all-my-children/soap-vet-gil-rogers-dead-at-87?

 

[Steph J]

I recently got into some 1987 episodes (unfortunately the channel that I was watching, which appeared to have much of the year, got deleted from Youtube. I've picked up the year at archive.org but it has some pretty lengthy gaps between episodes). Some highlights include:

* Mark's addiction story leading to his intervention (I'm amazed that Mark LaMura didn't snag an Emmy for this because he was fantastic)

* Ross and Natalie's affair. It feels weird to say so, because I know that it ends with him raping her, but they were really hot at the start. I also like how other threads were woven in - Palmer falling for Natalie, Ellen and Ross being at odds over her desire to be there for Mark, Nina returning and being suspicious of Natalie's motives towards Palmer as well as Ross' feelings for Natalie, Jeremy finding out and his reaction speaking to his and Natalie's past - to increase the complexity and tension of the situation

* Erica Kane, race car driver

* Angie and Jesse finding their marriage undermined by the returns of his friend Yvonne (who I gather he had an affair with, but someone correct me if I'm wrong) and her father. Lots of great work by Debbi Morgan and Darnell Williams

* Hunter Tylo's classic face

* It's also interesting to me to see teenage Cecily going after teenage Charlie because I don't recall that part of their history ever coming up when the two got together during the 90s

I'm hoping someone can explain to me what the deal was with Stuart's first wife (I didn't even know he had a wife before Cindy) kidnapping Erica. I saw a clip where she has Erica bound and gagged, but the earlier part of this story is missing so I have no context for it.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Just saw Michael E. Knight (Tad Martin) on GH and dang, he just gets more handsome with age. I wouldn't mind seeing him in the AMC reboot but it sounds like they're not much interested in many of the legacy players. (Plus, I'm still not in favor of SMG as Kendall. Her portrayal was relatively minute compared to AM's and I don't understand why they're going back there. Besides Kelly and SMG being pals, anyway. 😑)

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I don't understand why they're going back there.

I haven't heard any news.  Are they going to use SMG? 

While I prefer AM's Kendall, I think it's more than just the fact that SMG and Kelly are friends.  SMG has a lot of work in prime time and I would be very shocked if we got many actors on this show who don't have the prime time credentials as well as a soap background. 

[ByaNose]

I hate to say this but I don’t see this getting past the writing stage. If it does go to air I can’t see it having any resemblance of the daytime version. It will be filmed and aired once a week. They’ll probably add some gothic elements because all the reboots do (especially on the CW or whatever that other network is) and, I don’t think there are enough people clamoring for AMC in prime time.
 

Personally, I think AMC & OLTL should air in daytime in half hour formats to see if there is any real interest. As for, casting I tend to think that Kelly & Mark would hire their friends such Eva LaRue and SMG. I know she admires Susan Lucci but I don’t see ABC being interest in bringing Lucci back as Erica Kane. I mean she looks amazing but she’s 74 years old and I doubt they have any interest over anyone say.....55. Of course, time will tell and I might be proven wrong. Also, Kelly & Marc have produced other stuff but I don’t think anything has been successful. I think it’s in her contract that ABC has to listen to her and have first refusal or something like that. LOL!!!!!!

[Irlandesa]

20 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

I don’t see ABC being interest in bringing Lucci back as Erica Kane.

While I do agree with you that I don't see this making it past the development stage, I would think Susan will show up if she wants to.  She has done some other prime time stuff and she was an absolute highlight of Marc Cherry's Devious Maids. Her brand is soap diva but I think she has transcended the "exclusively daytime" side of that.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Irlandesa

[Crs97]

SMG won a Daytime Emmy for her portrayal of Kendall so I don’t think she is a terrible choice.  I just have no interest in doee wending time with a new generation.  

[CCTC]

On 3/13/2021 at 10:49 PM, Steph J said:

I recently got into some 1987 episodes (unfortunately the channel that I was watching, which appeared to have much of the year, got deleted from Youtube. I've picked up the year at archive.org but it has some pretty lengthy gaps between episodes). Some highlights include:

* Mark's addiction story leading to his intervention (I'm amazed that Mark LaMura didn't snag an Emmy for this because he was fantastic)

* Ross and Natalie's affair. It feels weird to say so, because I know that it ends with him raping her, but they were really hot at the start. I also like how other threads were woven in - Palmer falling for Natalie, Ellen and Ross being at odds over her desire to be there for Mark, Nina returning and being suspicious of Natalie's motives towards Palmer as well as Ross' feelings for Natalie, Jeremy finding out and his reaction speaking to his and Natalie's past - to increase the complexity and tension of the situation

* Erica Kane, race car driver

* Angie and Jesse finding their marriage undermined by the returns of his friend Yvonne (who I gather he had an affair with, but someone correct me if I'm wrong) and her father. Lots of great work by Debbi Morgan and Darnell Williams

* Hunter Tylo's classic face

* It's also interesting to me to see teenage Cecily going after teenage Charlie because I don't recall that part of their history ever coming up when the two got together during the 90s

I'm hoping someone can explain to me what the deal was with Stuart's first wife (I didn't even know he had a wife before Cindy) kidnapping Erica. I saw a clip where she has Erica bound and gagged, but the earlier part of this story is missing so I have no context for it.

I started watching right after these story lines (summer job had it on during lunch).

Was the Ross and Natalie affair before she married Palmer or did they have a  fling after she became Mrs. Palmer Courtland?  When I started watching, Palmer was suspicious and kept setting up traps for them to be alone together, so he could catch them, but Natalie always tried to convince Ross she loved Palmer.  The breakdown of Ellen and Ross's marriage was well done.  Noone was a great actress, it is too bad they got rid of her and Mark (I loved the filler scenes of Mark, Mona and Erica while they discussed her latest crisis).

Missed Erica the race car driver, but the results of that weekend were Erica's summer story where she is desperate to hide her pregnancy (and inconvenient morning sickness) from Travis while she clashed with Barbara.  I know I am not alone in that it was Lucci's comedic timing that made me notice her.

Angie and Jessie seemed headed for divorce and wonder if they would have if Darnell was not leaving the show and they reunited them so they could be together by the time of his hospital death scene.

Cecily was originally written as a young Erica.  She was desperate to break-up Julie and Charlie (Phil and Tara) and even used a parentage secret  that sent Julie running away similar to Erica telling Phil he who his parents were that sent him running.  The said, she did actually seem truly remorseful for the consequences and while still wanting Charlie for awhile longer did not seem as underhanded after that, and started to evolve more into the lovable character whose scheming was more comical by the time she and Nico were together.  While Julie and Cecily became friends - they hated each other back in high school and Charlie did not exactly think highly of Cecily.

I missed most of the the issues  with Stuart's first wife, but I think she actually might have loved Adam and I think she had a long resentment of Erica and how things changed when Adam married her.  My guess is the kidnapping story did not make a lot of sense, but they used it as a plot device to establish Travis as a hero character and move him closer into Erica's orbit.   I wonder how Travis would have ended up had he stayed with the show longer.  I know he was largely a white hat sort of character early on, but he certainly showed a more vindictive and manipulative side the second part of his tenure.

Regarding Kendell and the reboot -- at this point the Kendell character would probably be considered to old  for what the TV execs seem to want for their soaps now, and will probably be the supporting matriarch character while her daughter/children are the main characters.   That said, while people tend to think of Erica vs. Brooke or Erica vs. Natalie, Lucci and Larue had some good chemistry and it would be a shame to not see them tangle if this somehow does make it  to the screen.

[DanaK]

Did anyone see E!’s Reunion Road Trip Series premiere? The first episode is on All My Children, which debuted June 10. Eva LaRue gathered Cameron Mathison, Rebecca Budig and Jacob Young to remember the show on its 50th anniversary. Others popping in via video were Susan Lucci, Alicia Minshew, Darnell Williams, and Debbie Morgan . It was pretty fun and there was a nice tribute to Eva’s late ex John Callahan. The only thing that annoyed me was they brought up the cliffhanger ending on ABC and pretended to goad Jacob to reveal who JR shot; we all know JR shot Marissa when the show was brought back online

[princelina]

On 6/15/2021 at 1:17 AM, DanaK said:

Did anyone see E!’s Reunion Road Trip Series premiere? The first episode is on All My Children, which debuted June 10. Eva LaRue gathered Cameron Mathison, Rebecca Budig and Jacob Young to remember the show on its 50th anniversary. Others popping in via video were Susan Lucci, Alicia Minshew, Darnell Williams, and Debbie Morgan . It was pretty fun and there was a nice tribute to Eva’s late ex John Callahan. The only thing that annoyed me was they brought up the cliffhanger ending on ABC and pretended to goad Jacob to reveal who JR shot; we all know JR shot Marissa when the show was brought back online

Thanks for that - I ran and watched it right away on On Demand!

[WendyCR72]

Rest in peace, Ray MacDonnell (Dr. Joe Martin), who passed away on June 10th at 93.

[boes]

29 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Rest in peace, Ray MacDonnell (Dr. Joe Martin), who passed away on June 10th at 93.

Oh no.  I know it's not unexpected but I sure loved that man.  I watched AMC from Day 1 and he was always such a dependable performer and from what I've read, a generous and caring co-worker.  He stayed in touch with Mary Fickett who played the original Ruth even after she became ill and had to retire, even as her mind started to deteriorate, he visited and called.

What a wonderful man he was.

 

[WendyCR72]

29 minutes ago, boes said:

Oh no.  I know it's not unexpected but I sure loved that man.  I watched AMC from Day 1 and he was always such a dependable performer and from what I've read, a generous and caring co-worker.  He stayed in touch with Mary Fickett who played the original Ruth even after she became ill and had to retire, even as her mind started to deteriorate, he visited and called.

What a wonderful man he was.

 

Yeah. My mother got into AMC from Day 1, and she passed it on to me. (I was a big Greg/Jenny and Cliff/Nina fan before I really knew what shipping was as a kid/tween! I started Days more regularly in college when my friends watched, though I watched pieces beforehand, a la Bo/Hope, if AMC was preempted for whatever reason! Before our first VCR, anyway...) And Joe Martin was like another fictional family member. Ray MacDonnell was such a steady, comforting influence on the show.

As you said, it's not wholly unexpected, but it still sucks. Time really does wait for no one. 😥

[WendyCR72]

Someone on the old cop show, Hunter, must have been an AMC viewer. An episode that aired on Charge! from S6, titled "Unacceptable Loss", had both Kathleen Noone and Robert Gentry (Ellen and Ross) as a pairing on that show, too.

It was from 1990.

Peacock has the series if you want to check it out. Believe it is on the free tier, so there should be no issue with accessing the show to watch.

By the way, Mark LaMura, Darnell Williams, and Dorothy Lyman were also in episodes of the series. LaMura was in "Code 3" in S5, Williams was in "The Fourth Man" in S4, and Dorothy Lyman was in "The Pit" from S5, should you want to watch those, too, if you need an AMC actor fix!

[racked]

I’ve been watching Bianca’s coming out storyline on YT (I didn’t start watching AMC until she was pregnant with Miranda) and it’s so wonderful. I was a teen at the time so it’s fun to see the fashions and early 00s styles but also wild that she had a series of relationships with no real physical contact. I couldn’t tell if she and Frankie ever even hooked up? 
 

But all of the young actresses in her storyline were terrific - Sarah, Rain and Frankie. I’m watching an edit that only shows the Bianca storyline so it’s kind of hilarious to see Greenlee’s manic villain scenes where Laura was the victim to that then switching later with no real understanding of how or why. Can’t wait for Kendall to show up! 

[Joimiaroxeu]

From SoapCentral.com:

Dynasty and All My Children alum Michael Nader dead at 76

I always thought Dimitri Marick was Erica Kane's best pairing. RIP.

[Hiyo]

Aw damn. So did I. I hated the way things ended for both characters due to him being let go and his replacement was just...meh.

He also had great chemistry with Joan Collins on Dynasty.

May he Rest in Peace.

[Dr.OO7]

Dimitri!

I can't believe how many of my soap actors/actresses are passing away.

[CCTC]

On 8/15/2021 at 10:31 PM, racked said:

I couldn’t tell if she and Frankie ever even hooked up? 

I don't think so.  I do not think Frankie had even come to terms with her sexuality - hence the awkward hook-up with JR.  That would have been a good follow-up story to flesh-up and follow Bianca's coming out.  Bianca was in the closet but was clear on her sexuality.  It would have been interesting to see Frankie come to terms with being gay (like Kevin did  earlier).  She and Bianca had good chemistry and would have made sense for Bianca's first pairing.  AMC dud a good job with the coming outs (Michael, Kevin, Bianca), but not so much in showing them in a real relationship.  

Sad news about Michael Nader.  He was not necessarily my favorite pairing for Erica, but think the character was probably the best match for Erica and the one she could have realistically had a long-term relationship.  I liked her chemistry with Jack, but they probably weren't right for each other.  Plus, the writing in the early 90's was perhaps the last golden age (except some later story lines like Bianca's coming out - and there was some good casting early 2000's) and they had some good story lines while they were together - SMG-Kendal, Edmund, drug addiction, corporate battle during the sham Adam marriage/Will's murder.

Edited August 26, 2021 by CCTC

[Hiyo]

Quote

Plus, the writing in the early 90's was perhaps the last golden age

Yeah, for me, the show starts to decline circa 1998 or 1999.

[Black Knight]

On 8/26/2021 at 6:51 AM, CCTC said:

On 8/15/2021 at 8:31 PM, racked said:

I couldn’t tell if she and Frankie ever even hooked up? 

I don't think so. 

Eden Riegel said in an interview back then that they did hook up one night, citing a line of dialogue that referred to it obliquely because of all the network constraints at that time. (Bianca said that one night she and Frankie "let things happen.")

So sad about Michael Nader. Dimitri/Erica was the best. I remember there was one point in which it was an Dimitri/Erica/Jack triangle, and the show had been planning on Jack winning out until they saw that the audience overwhelmingly favored Dimitri, and changed course.

[boes]

On 8/27/2021 at 12:10 AM, Hiyo said:

Yeah, for me, the show starts to decline circa 1998 or 1999.

When Brian Frons started fiddling behind the scenes and Show hired Cameron Mathisen and then proceeded to make that hack the star of the show, things started sliding fast.

[CCTC]

Yes - Frons was a big part of things.  Is that around the time Pine Valley developed a big city skyline?  While the show always had a favorite character they would have periods of overuse, that went from 3 to 4 times a week, to every day for about 5 straight weeks.  They also stopped having as many storylines - so everyday was the same people instead of about six or seven storylines rotating a different combo of three a day so it mixed things up a bit.

I think they also panicked with the post-OJ ratings drop, saw Days rise with the Marlena possession story and tried a few outlandish stories of their own - Voodoo in Jamaica, Matteo's cosmovision etc.   

The Erica babynaper might have been around that time as well.  I have caught some of that story recently on Youtube, and while it was not my favorite story at the time, if you go back to Erica losing the baby and slowly figuring it out the one night stand and plotting to confront Maria through the time she returned the baby, that  might have been some of Lucci's best acting.  She and Larue also had some pretty powerful scenes together.  If they ever do successfully launch that prime time Pine Valley and they are both on it - they really do play off each other well.

[Steph J]

23 hours ago, boes said:

When Brian Frons started fiddling behind the scenes and Show hired Cameron Mathisen and then proceeded to make that hack the star of the show, things started sliding fast.

 

21 hours ago, CCTC said:

The Erica babynaper might have been around that time as well.  I have caught some of that story recently on Youtube, and while it was not my favorite story at the time, if you go back to Erica losing the baby and slowly figuring it out the one night stand and plotting to confront Maria through the time she returned the baby, that  might have been some of Lucci's best acting.  She and Larue also had some pretty powerful scenes together.  If they ever do successfully launch that prime time Pine Valley and they are both on it - they really do play off each other well.

I may be in the minority on this, but I actually like that storyline (although I hate that it was rooted in Dimitri and Maria having grief sex, which I found completely unbelievable for two characters who had never previously showed a modicum of attraction to each other). Erica's motivations were clear, the show didn't try to depict her as the good guy, and when it was finally resolved, Erica actually had to face the consequences of her actions. Unlike, say, Tad, who buried a guy alive and was still supposed to be the "hero."

 

23 hours ago, boes said:

When Brian Frons started fiddling behind the scenes and Show hired Cameron Mathisen and then proceeded to make that hack the star of the show, things started sliding fast.

Mathison predated Frons by about 4 years and he was fine for his first few years on the show, when he wasn't at the center of it. I've always thought the problem with Ryan later on was actually a problem with daytime generally, which is that shows increasingly started to center around men who spent all their time yelling at the women around them for being stupid. Around the mid 2000's daytime generally started this slide into open, blatant misogyny that completely drove me away as a viewer.

[boes]

14 minutes ago, Steph J said:

 

I may be in the minority on this, but I actually like that storyline (although I hate that it was rooted in Dimitri and Maria having grief sex, which I found completely unbelievable for two characters who had never previously showed a modicum of attraction to each other). Erica's motivations were clear, the show didn't try to depict her as the good guy, and when it was finally resolved, Erica actually had to face the consequences of her actions. Unlike, say, Tad, who buried a guy alive and was still supposed to be the "hero."

 

Mathison predated Frons by about 4 years and he was fine for his first few years on the show, when he wasn't at the center of it. I've always thought the problem with Ryan later on was actually a problem with daytime generally, which is that shows increasingly started to center around men who spent all their time yelling at the women around them for being stupid. Around the mid 2000's daytime generally started this slide into open, blatant misogyny that completely drove me away as a viewer.

Yep.  Ryass was a prime example of exactly that.  And whatshername, his romantic partner, utterly unlikeable but someone we were supposed to root for nonetheless.

Then the Babe Carey and her mother infestation, along with the sidelining and rewriting of legacy characters, storylines focused on explosions and tornados........the disrespect shown to actors i.e. Cady McClain and Julia Barr, etc., ............

Too many untalented hands in the mix killed the show DEAD.  

[Hiyo]

I actually liked Ryan and Gillian together. It was the only pairing of his that really worked for me.

[Steph J]

Ryan and Gillian were great - I hated it when she died so that Laura could get her heart (and, speaking of grief sex that never should have happened, Ryan and Liza... yikes).

I also liked Ryan and Kendall the first time, which ended with him finding her getting with Aidan and then hoping on his motorcycle and leaving town.  I still remember the scene where she chases after him and he looks at her and just lowers the visor on his helmet and then rides off. If only he'd kept on riding and not come back...

[CCTC]

I had completely forgotten about Liza and Ryan - and barely remember anything about it.  Another thing the show messed up was a potentially great couple of Liza and Adam.  Liza went from being Adam's equal "I am you" and became just another victim wife.  I am not sure why they even had the third marriage because she immediately started blaming threatening to leave him for things he had done -- and they did not even bother to come up with anything new.  The things she was harping on him about were things that had come out during the second marriage.  Not that anyone should stay in a marriage and be lied to and victimized, but they really missed the boat in not making Liza and Adam partners in crime and not trying to make Liza a victimized heroine.  

A semi-related, and probably unpopular opinion.  As sweet and unexpected as Marion and Stuart were - in the long term it took a lot of fun out of the Marion character and at the same time shifted Stuart from being Adam's conscience to being  to simply being judgmental (and in real life - Adam would probably deserve it).  Marion and Stuart's main job was to show up and tell him to stop being mean to Liza in stereo.

I also liked Ryan with Gillian and the first round of Kendell.  He and Kendell had good chemistry whereas I did not think he and Greenlee really worked.  That is why it was so hard to believe they were drawn to each other while he was with Kendell especially since their earlier affair while he was on the outs with Gillian and she from Leo was toxic ad we were supposed to be toxic.  And did the whole - Ryan got mad at Kendell for trying to prevent Greenlee from ruining their wedding by marrying Greenlee, the person who was trying to ruin their wedding - ever make sense?

I liked early love to hate Greenlee -- but the Greenlee-Ryan-Kendell thing got old.  She had good chemistry with Kendell, but the alternate stories where they were enemies - then best friends - then enemies -etc. grew tiresome.  I also preferred her dynamic with Roger as her father than Jack.  He and Mary added some blue blood disfunction that had been missing since Phoebe went back-burner.  The purpose of her relationship with Jack seemed solely to be used whenever they wanted to break up him and Erica.  They really did not spend much time developing the actual relationship.  It also made her dynamic with Erica more one note and boring.  They had some great scenes early on but it evolved always arguing about either Kendell or Jack - no shades to their relationship.

Another unpopular opinion.  Krystal and Babe could have been great characters.  The actresses were decent and the show needed some new trouble-makers to stir things up.  If they would have kept Babe as the vixen schemer she was when she first showed up (maybe tone done the Sami Jo from Dynasty imitation) and kept Krystal as more of the gold digger with tones of original Opal - they could have been fun.  It also did not help that they decided to change the characters to Babe is love and Earth Momma -- without adjusting their storyline.  They were still doing horrible things but we were supposed to be on their side.  I am not ) sure who thought it was a good idea to have Babe kidnap a second baby while there was so much negative reaction to the first baby she kidnapped...

I will mainly never forgive Babe and Krystal because of their storyline generating a scene where Tad tells Joe about the baby switch and Dr. Joe Martin says that is too bad and is sympathetic - but does not seem to be bothered that Bianca, who he delivered after her mother had a week long sweeps related fever dream, the granddaughter of one of his oldest friends, and the daughter (who had the labor that induced flashbacks) of someone he has known since she was in high school and has had a long, complicated history including being related by marriage - twice, think her baby was dead.  The paragon of Pine Valley virtue for four decades destroyed like that.

In the end it was a combination of too much Carey women, the endless Greenlee-Kendell - I hate you - you are my best friend - I hate you -- that satin killer - death by pancakes - ruining a fantastic amoral potentially long-term antagonist like Vanessa and making her a psychotic drug lord (did any of that timeline make sense) who had to be killed off, and probably what pushed me over the edge to take it off my VCR - Tad burying a man alive  -- torturing him -- him dying a horrible death - people guessing Tad did it and feeling bad for him - and then Tad's one big emotional scene about it was really more him being mad at Dixie than feeling any guilt about killing someone in a horrible way.

I just remembered Deadly Santa -- where the Christmas miracle was Tad and Dixie's daughter ends up in Pine Valley because she was in a car accident that killed the only parents she had ever known.  We were supposed to say - yes - Christmas miracle - for a deadly car accident orphaning a girl so she can eventually be reunited.  Am I hallucinating or was Julia's, who became kind of an adoptive mother, viewed as another positive because it was one more obstacle from reuniting a little girl with her cold blooded killer bio Dad - she just needed to lose one more person she loved.

Wow - that was rambling - not sure I have ever written that much about the show.  Despite all that, it really was the one daytime soap I really watched and enjoyed it from mid-80s through most of the 90's and for about the first five years of the 2000s thought it had some bright spots and had the potential to operate on all cylinder's again.

 

[Steph J]

2 hours ago, CCTC said:

Another unpopular opinion.  Krystal and Babe could have been great characters.  The actresses were decent and the show needed some new trouble-makers to stir things up.  If they would have kept Babe as the vixen schemer she was when she first showed up (maybe tone done the Sami Jo from Dynasty imitation) and kept Krystal as more of the gold digger with tones of original Opal - they could have been fun.  It also did not help that they decided to change the characters to Babe is love and Earth Momma -- without adjusting their storyline.  They were still doing horrible things but we were supposed to be on their side.  I am not ) sure who thought it was a good idea to have Babe kidnap a second baby while there was so much negative reaction to the first baby she kidnapped...

Babe and Krystal could have been great characters if only the show had leaned into them as villains. Instead the show insisted on depicting them as heroines no matter what they did and in the process ruined a bunch of established characters by using them to prop the Careys up and excuse the things they did. I liked Alexa Havins as an actress, but as far as I'm concerned the only good thing about Babe is that when she and Josh were a thing a message board (I think it was twop) dubbed them "fetal pig," which still makes me laugh and laugh.

[CCTC]

Alexa was great at being a schemer with flashes of vulnerability (which I suspect is how young Erica was).  They had Krystal appear initially in a hotel room with a random hook-up and you could tell from her phone conversation with Babe she was not a great mother who would use her daughter to get money.  That might have made more compelling and made Babe more relatable.  By the time Krystal showed up in Pine Valley a few weeks later, something must have changed behind the scenes, because she was the best mother ever.

Fetal pig -- wonder what Lucci really thought of that story.  I remember Tad figured it out, like the medical procedure of stealing the fetus was a reasonable thing.  As bad of an idea as the unabortion was -- there actually could have been some good drama -- tension between Erica and the Martins - the fall-out of Josh knowing - his uncle killing his adoptive father.  Instead once the reveal was done it shifted to the drama being over Josh liking Babe, because Babe did not have enough screen time I guess.

I am having all of these repressed memories --- someone had the idea to pair a minor girl with autism with an older serial killer, who was no fine, because the "cut the bad out" which also caused him to talk like he was a five year old boy.

I really did overall enjoy the show -- Laura's Death (enjoy might not be the right word for that) - the Brooke-Adam-Dixie-Tad was classic soap, the original Montgomery Brother triangle, Adam-Erica and the mess involved with everything Will related with some early Wildwind, Richard Fields, most of the Erica-Dimitri stuff, Edmund/Brooke/Maria, Bianca's coming out, the original Hayward disfunction before Vanessa became a drug lord, Palmer's takedown/revenge on Adam leading to the return of Dixie's baby etc.

Not storyline related, but loved any filler scenes with Mona, Mark and Erica or family scenes in general.  They were largely to update people who might have missed a few days by summarizing what had been happening (probably a pre-VCR thing), but those scenes really did help establish family relations and give them some depth and realness.