S04.E20: Genesis

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 hour ago, AyChihuahua said:

He went straight from realizing Sara wasn't there to ripping the chip out of her arm. He seemed to be quite aware where it was.

Also, Felicity didn't seem to know Oliver was living in the bunker. Rewatching now, and she said "You've been living down here?" They're both out of the loft.

@quarks, when did he look down her bra? Need to know, for...science.

When she took the money out of her bra.

Yeah, I think no one is living at the loft too. Oliver is the one that messed up but it's so sad that he is basically refusing to live like a normal person and he is sleeping underground with no stuff. He just wants Felicity to love him again. SOBS.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[johntfs]

After Felicity gave Fortuna the chips, I halfway thought she'd answer Oliver's eventual "What do I need to do?" with "Sit down over there and be quiet while I teach your ex-girlfriend how to hack the universe."

[nksarmi]

37 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

I think that Diggle lied to Lyla because he was ashamed and afraid that for a split second, he did revert back to the man that Lyla divorced - afraid that maybe that darkness never left him.  I am sure Lyla would have understood, but he's still afraid that if he says it out loud to Lyla that she might see that man that she divorced, she might see that he never really changed and that he has always been that man.  We never saw what he was like after his tour to Afghanistan when he was spiraling, but Lyla did.  Diggle is really shaken, so I don't think he is being logical and just letting his insecurities get the best of him right now.

I also think Diggle just didn't want to admit that he had a choice when he killed Andy. To be perfectly honest, I don't think he did. I think the show went out of their way to tell me that for some reason or another Andy was going to go after John, Lyla, and Sara like a rapid dog. John had so many moments when killing Andy would have made sense. And John really couldn't ever trust that his ability to disarm and overpower Andy wasn't some ploy in DD's games. I mean let's think about it:

- Team Arrow rescued Andy.

- Andy supposedly saved Lyla's life at Argus but the Shadowspire attempted theft of Rubicon was probably just a ruse to kill Amanda Waller, learn the weaknesses of Argus, and force Lyla into doing something drastic to protect it.

- So the one good thing Andy did to make John think he could be saved was probably all part of DD's plan.

- John had let Andy be around his family for weeks (maybe months) and he felt so little for them that he endangered their lives and DD likely would have killed Sara just because John left a mark on Ruve's face the week before.

- Then everything from Laurel's death to this episode when they put a tracker on John ends up being part of DD's plans.

So short of actually putting Andy in the ground - how could he be sure he ever defeated him? How could he be sure that even if they defeat Darhk that Andy won't come after him and his family? He can't. No prison would make John feel safe. Frankly, it's really the same reason Malcolm needs to die.

But I don't think John will allow himself to see it that way. It will bother him - eat at him. Not whether or not Andy could have been saved - but if prison would have been sufficient so he wouldn't have his brother's blood on his hands. If they don't just forget about it in season five - it will probably cause John to act recklessly until he breaks down and admits the truth to Lyla or someone else on the team if the actress isn't available and then he works it out with his wife and starts to heal. I really don't think it will break John and Lyla up or anything like that (or at least it won't if these writers have the collective IQ of a snail).

[Midnight Lullaby]

I don't think Andy could have been saved either but there's a difference between killing him in self defense like he told Lyla he did and choosing to take his life. They could have always put him in a ARGUS cell or tried to find a way to keep him locked. He was his little brother so not only a person he loved but also someone I think he felt responsible for so I can see Dig having a hard time forgiving himself even if he did what he had to to protect his wife and child. It's also sad that he didn't tell Lyla that is the person closest to him, wouldn't have judged him and is also someone who knows what it means to make a difficult choice. Oliver can understand too but he still has a lots of issues to work on so I think Lyla would have been a more steady moral support. But I guess this will be the chance for Oliver to show he can be the moral support his friends and family need like they were and are for him.

[DavidJSnyder]

Was it Canadian money that Felicity set down on the table?  Did I imagine that?

[SmallScreenDiva]

59 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

@quarks, when did he look down her bra? Need to know, for...science.

I'm sticking with my theory Felicity is still living in the loft. But I don't know that we'll find out for sure in the next 3 eps.

Spoiler

Stephen and Emily were on the couch in the loft in Charlotte's Snapchat but they could just have been hanging out.

Edited May 5, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, DavidJSnyder said:

Was it Canadian money that Felicity set down on the table?  Did I imagine that?

No, she used American money.

[tv echo]

7 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Instead of a recorded track for ambiance, how about saving a few birds and dogs and let them bark and chirp for real?

Exactly.  How about a self-sustaining eco-system for his new world?  Or biodiversity?  Or - as long as I'm throwing terms around - how about the butterfly effect?  Yes, Darhk managed to grow corn that apparently can create an oxygen-rich atmosphere, but people need more than oxygen to survive.

Incidentally, at least two media reviewers asked the question of why Esrin Fortuna didn't turn to Felicity next, after Oliver failed his test - since she usually brings the light.  I'm guessing, it's because: one, Oliver has the magic tattoo, and two, it's Oliver's show.

Edited May 5, 2016 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Less is more in the Arrow Lair. I want the shrowrunners to repeat that over and over this summer. The little taste of just Oliver, Felicity, Diggle and Thea was a very good taste. 

[kismet]

Seriously that was an amazing episode!! I just want to get my thoughts out completely unfiltered & uninfluenced from previous posts/pages.

I loved the Diggles fighting Evil Diggle. I loved that Andy was truly bad to the bone. He wasn't trying for redemption and the writers were not trying to make him grey. He was just bad. I felt absolutely horrible that Dig had to kill him, but there was few other options. However, it broke my heart that Diggle had to be the one to do it. No one should have to kill their brother. Also Lyla can kick ass, can we keep her? Why do they not use Lyla more, she totally brings a lot to the table. I do not like the new Lil Sara, I hope they recast her again - this one while adorable is too distractible.

I loved secret underground magical mystery ride to Hub City. Please Arrow write more of these missions/adventures. O&F were just so natural with each other. And it had a Sassy Shaman, that I hope recurs occasionally. Bonus - fancy clothes with purpose. Also I knew the tattoo would come into play, still I don't care if its cheesy & predictable. All of O/F conversations were genuine & heartfelt. Even though I'm a non-hugger - I still wanted to give Oliver a hug ~ it's just acceptance, no pity parties here. Who hasn't thrown and acceptance/pity party?

Alex, well I knew he'd go bad the question is - was he bad before or was it the Sheldrake yellow pills? Does it matter? Poor Thea is stuck in a Hunger Games Arena Knock-off. Guess she is gonna survive Genesis because her Dad is MM & he put her on the list. Also is the Sheldrake a comic thing? Because the only thing I could think of was Dirty Dancing and how the hotel where the old people rob people & Johnny is framed is named the Sheldrake. I blame all the 80s references & Lyla shouting Johnny with such passion - how could I not be transported back?

Random pop culture references I loved - Harry Potter (of course), Genesis/Phil Collins.

So many little inside jokes and references to Arrowverse. I also loved the trauma flashback reel. For once, I loved the Flashbacks - go figure :)

It was just hands down I think the best episode of the season. There is something about their episode 20s, they are magical (only slight pun intended). It had drama, action, family, love, good v. evil (sorry light v. darhk), friendship, Team Arrow at their best & amazing wardrobe. Most of all It was well plotted & paced. And the action sequences rocked. Yay for motorbikes! :) I didn't even mind the truck chase! For once they even had a realistic reason OQ delayed revealing stuff, he was just waiting for Constantine to call him back - not just having his usual memory deficits.

I'm beginning to think its Oscar Balderrama, so far he has written pretty amazing episodes (the only random one being Blood Debts) which I didn't love, but I think if it had been longer it would have been fine. They just tried to squeeze too much plot into one episode, I blame the showrunner on that not him. Now, I'm really looking forward to e22 [Oscar & GLEN!! :)] I really just hope he gets promoted to more episodes next season.

Now I must go to bed, I've been up for too many hours and unfortunately have to go back to work tonight. :(

[bijoux]

29 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Less is more in the Arrow Lair. I want the shrowrunners to repeat that over and over this summer. The little taste of just Oliver, Felicity, Diggle and Thea was a very good taste. 

Lyla fit in as well. I don't want her as a permanent team member, but working with them from time to time just feels right.

While on the topic of Oliver living in the lair, I did not catch this:

It's sad and touching but he really has to learn that he is enough before this season ends, that he can enjoy jogs around the neighborhood and being the hot goofy neighbor who brings the best dishes to neighborhood cookouts even when he's on his own.

Also, that journal is totally coming into play in the next three episodes. 

[Primetimer]

While Oliver tries to get some magical training, Diggle is getting kind of sick of his mouthy, evil brother.

View the full article

[looptab]

I think she didn't turn to Felicity because she has no totem and no tattoo, necessary to channel the light/magic/Patronus.

[bethy]

This really was such a great, fun episode.

I'm so glad they didn't go too far down the path of "Oliver is SO dark!" I was afraid we were in for lots of angst and reversion to old habits, so it was encouraging to me both that Felicity told Oliver that he could change and that he - as always - believed her and found the light inside him to push back on Dahrk.

Did not think that strapping the baby to his back was a smart move on Diggle's part given that the people who were chasing him MIGHT ACTUALLY SHOOT AT HIM. Strap her to your chest next time, man.

Loved so many little moments between Oliver and Felicity. Liked how he took her hand to help her down the stairs, neither of them really thinking about it until they were at the bottom and you can see Felicity pull her hand out of his a little self-consciously.

I was somewhat afraid they were going to try to make Fortuna a love interest, but they didn't and I thought she was great in that limited role. 

What a difference a lack of flashbacks and Laurel (other than the constant Saint Laurel references) makes.

[cambridgeguy]

Hey Oliver, if DD is going to nuke the world then maybe it's time to call in Barry and take him out.  Or if you saw Zoom gloating on the news then you should just call that guy and tell him he'll always be number two on the supervillain list if someone else launches some nuclear warheads.  Zoom is more of a hands-on guy anyway so I don't think he'd be a fan of killing via bomb.

[arjumand]

13 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I thought Oliver's comment about seeing magic turn good people dark and soulles then the clip of Poppy with Yellow Eyes was the hibt. I figure she goes evil and Oliver kills her.

Yay!!!

Wait, was I not supposed to 'YAY' here?

Everything I wanted to say has been said, including my joy when ever more minutes went by without a single flashback. A linear narrative, everyone. So beautiful. It's not my birthday, is it?

Even the Poppy flash in the memories didn't get me down. That's all the flashbacks we need, show.

[quarks]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's like the sudden rise of Harry Potty references we've been getting lately.  Are they seeking a sponsorship? 

Actually, seriously now...anyone been paying attention to the commercials?  Have they been advertising the Harry Potter kingdom adventures or whatever they are called during Arrow and The Flash?   

I don't want to sound conspiracy minded or anything, but WB does own the film rights to Harry Potter.  

[Delphi]

Holy crap,  that was good.   My biggest complaint is that I had to work late and missed the episode.   But watching without commercials was nice. 

 

Poor Thea,  she either needs Roy Harper back in her life or she needs to live a life of celibacy.   The girl just can't catch a break. 

Felicity is made of win, everything she did was awesome.   Also I really enjoyed that she mentioned that she can say very hurtful things when she's hurting.   Because that's definitely a trait of hers and one that is good to admit. 

I didn't mind Dig saying Laurel was like a sister for various reasons,  but mainly military logic.   Your comrades are your siblings in a sense.   My boyfriend has people from his tours that he refers to as brothers and sisters and he's not particularly close to them, it's just a bond that forms while fighting together and I don't imagine Dig is all that far removed from his time in service. 

I don't even like babies but Sara is absolutely adorable.   

Lyla is also made of win. 

Thank god that Dig killed Andy.  I don't blame him,  I'd kill him to.  Some people don't deserve to be alive.   I just need a few more murders this season and I'll be good. 

[NumberCruncher]

1 hour ago, DavidJSnyder said:

Was it Canadian money that Felicity set down on the table?  Did I imagine that?

Heh, I think it was supposed to be U.S. currency but it was ridiculously fake-looking.

[Starfish35]

30 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Hey Oliver, if DD is going to nuke the world then maybe it's time to call in Barry and take him out.  Or if you saw Zoom gloating on the news then you should just call that guy and tell him he'll always be number two on the supervillain list if someone else launches some nuclear warheads.  Zoom is more of a hands-on guy anyway so I don't think he'd be a fan of killing via bomb.

Lol, yeah, I've been kind of idly wondering what would happen if Barry and Oliver managed to set the two against each other.  Would they join forces and make a bad situation worse? Or could they reduce their supervillain count by at least one? 

I mean, not that I expect or necessarily want it to happen within the actual shows.  It's just been something I've been thinking about.

[Cthulhudrew]

One thing is bugging me about Thea's situation that will hopefully be resolved or addressed next week. She feels like something is off the entire time, but only begins to make the connections when she notices the repetitive pattern of the birds chirping and the dog barking. Then she discovers Alex's pills and starts putting things together, including her lack of memory as to where they were going for their vacation or even getting there.

Shouldn't that gap in her memory have been the first thing that sent her into panicked alarm mode?

When all the Thea "vacation" scenes started, I was sure that they were going to go the "Alex is Bad" route, but he seemed genuinely confused when confronted about the pills and the accusation of drugging Thea and all the rest, so I'm not yet convinced he is involved and not just a victim himself, but I can't think of what else would make sense just yet.

[calliope1975]

9 hours ago, Password said:

I adored the Shaman. I wouldn't mind her returning at all even though she gave up on Oliver after 2 minutes. 

In the fanfic I'm writing in my head, they track Fortuna back down and she teaches Felicity how to harness the light inside herself to fight Darhk. Sure, she doesn't have a magic tattoo, but I can overlook that. Darhk would never see it coming, and Felicity gets revenge on the guy who had her shot up on the day she got engaged. Boom! Felicity and Friends, indeed.

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Lol, yeah, I've been kind of idly wondering what would happen if Barry and Oliver managed to set the two against each other.  Would they join forces and make a bad situation worse? Or could they reduce their supervillain count by at least one? 

I mean, not that I expect or necessarily want it to happen within the actual shows.  It's just been something I've been thinking about.

I doubt they'd join forces.  They're both too egomanical for that.  Also, Zoom wants to rule the world while Darkh wants to destroy and rebuild it (and then rule it).  Even so, playing "let's you and him fight" with Zoom and Darkh is probably not the best move.  Do you seriously think either of them would try to avoid massive destructive moves that would slaughter hundreds of civilians?  I'm guessing no.

 

Andy was interesting to me.  I'm pretty sure he was deliberately trying to goad John into killing him.  On a deep level Andy probably did regret the choices he'd made and the cost he'd paid.  He also probably didn't want to see John, Lyla and little Sara die in Darkh's holocaust.  He wasn't consciously suicidal, but I can see his issues causing him to subconsciously seek a way out, even if that way was suicide by brother.

[lion10]

Diggle was so badass this episode, the black driver rides again!  Him shooting Andy was the best decision he could've made in this circumstantce, Andy was threatening Lyla and Sarah and Diggle had already given him several chances to be a better person.  I don't know why he lied to Lyla though, Lyla of all people would know that killing Andy was necessary after everything he put them through.  It was good to see another Constantine reference but the shaman he sent Oliver and Felicity to looked distractingly a lot like Nyssa to the point where I had to be thinking "that's not Nyssa" whenever I saw her.  It was kind of awkward when Felicity and the shaman were talking at the bar and Oliver was just standing there with a blank smile on his face for a good ten seconds.  Oliver initiated the conversation in the last scene so why was he standing there like a block of wood in the next scene?

 

The "you need light" scene was strange to me because when Oliver faced Damien Darhk at the beginning of Season 4 he was probably the fullest of light he's ever been.  He was just coming back from his months-long trip with Felicity, and he was happy and optimistic.  Why wouldn't he be immune to Darhk's magic then?

[Password]

1 minute ago, calliope1975 said:

In the fanfic I'm writing in my head, they track Fortuna back down and she teaches Felicity how to harness the light inside herself to fight Darhk. Sure, she doesn't have a magic tattoo, but I can overlook that. Darhk would never see it coming, and Felicity gets revenge on the guy who had her shot up on the day she got engaged. Boom! Felicity and Friends, indeed.

I was going to ask you to low key send this to Gugie but the season is already over. 

[tv echo]

2 minutes ago, lion10 said:

The "you need light" scene was strange to me because when Oliver faced Damien Darhk at the beginning of Season 4 he was probably the fullest of light he's ever been.  He was just coming back from his months-long trip with Felicity, and he was happy and optimistic.  Why wouldn't he be immune to Darhk's magic then?

Good point.  Maybe you have to focus on or consciously channel your inner light (and not just stand there). So it may not be a passive immunity but an active repelling of the Darhkness.

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, they made a thing out of him having to focus on the light. It's not just having the light and having the tattoo. So it makes sense to me (as much as magic crap on a somewhat-goofy show can, anyway).

[tarotx]

When Oliver faced Darhk in the Season premiere, Oliver was not the fullest of light. He was already resigned to losing everything. That's why he didn't ask Felicity to marry him and that loss saddened him. He also actually said he has never been able to fight darkness without becoming a bit Dark himself. He was having issues with Diggle, he was worried about Thea and had Lance bait him a bit. So yeah not in a place where light would easily come to mind. Especially before he knew that thinking about the positive and good in his life was key. 

Edited May 5, 2016 by tarotx

[dtissagirl]

You have to ACTUALLY use the force, Luke.

[Midnight Lullaby]

With all the talk about Harry Potter and Patronus I realized Oliver's scene with the shaman reminds me of Harry's occlumency lessons with Piton.

[dtissagirl]

I'm just highly amused [so amused!] by the fact that John Constantine gave Oliver Queen a freaking magical glowing tattoo that unwittingly [?] made Oliver into The Chosen One in the fight against ~the dark arts~ five years later. That's just the right amount of kooky-ness I like in my hero's journey.

[AyChihuahua]

And also didn't TELL HIM the purpose of the tattoo, including when he was in town just a few months ago and knew about DD.

Sneaky unhelpful bastard.

[dtissagirl]

When you're the [totally accidental] Yoda [Dumbledore?], your job is to help by not helping at all.

[catrox14]

I figured out why I didn't care for the episode. 

Like I don't really get this whole lightness vs darkness thing and why the light is the only way. Is it supposed to automagically fix Oliver's trauma and PTSD?

IMO if he takes vengeance on Darkh it doesn't fucking matter to me that he goes dark to do it. Because there is nothing that says going dark for a reason dooms you to staying in that dark place forever.

If they want light to defeat the dark, why not just have Felicity be that light? Not just have her be a voice with 10 other Voices of Light. Let her battle with Oliver

It has no real dramatic reasonance for me and I just think back s1 and s2 where the darkness was a thing but it was organic and made sense. It didn't require magic idols to show Oliver the way. Bleh.

I dunno I gotta rewatch and see if I'm just a grump or this whole plot line is annoying me.

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, nksarmi said:

I also think Diggle just didn't want to admit that he had a choice when he killed Andy. To be perfectly honest, I don't think he did. I think the show went out of their way to tell me that for some reason or another Andy was going to go after John, Lyla, and Sara like a rapid dog. John had so many moments when killing Andy would have made sense. And John really couldn't ever trust that his ability to disarm and overpower Andy wasn't some ploy in DD's games. I mean let's think about it:

- Team Arrow rescued Andy.

- Andy supposedly saved Lyla's life at Argus but the Shadowspire attempted theft of Rubicon was probably just a ruse to kill Amanda Waller, learn the weaknesses of Argus, and force Lyla into doing something drastic to protect it.

- So the one good thing Andy did to make John think he could be saved was probably all part of DD's plan.

- John had let Andy be around his family for weeks (maybe months) and he felt so little for them that he endangered their lives and DD likely would have killed Sara just because John left a mark on Ruve's face the week before.

- Then everything from Laurel's death to this episode when they put a tracker on John ends up being part of DD's plans.

So short of actually putting Andy in the ground - how could he be sure he ever defeated him? How could he be sure that even if they defeat Darhk that Andy won't come after him and his family? He can't. No prison would make John feel safe. Frankly, it's really the same reason Malcolm needs to die.

But I don't think John will allow himself to see it that way. It will bother him - eat at him. Not whether or not Andy could have been saved - but if prison would have been sufficient so he wouldn't have his brother's blood on his hands. If they don't just forget about it in season five - it will probably cause John to act recklessly until he breaks down and admits the truth to Lyla or someone else on the team if the actress isn't available and then he works it out with his wife and starts to heal. I really don't think it will break John and Lyla up or anything like that (or at least it won't if these writers have the collective IQ of a snail).

One thing that never added up about Andy promising to eventually get to Lyla and Sara...DD is planning on blowing up the world tomorrow.

2 hours ago, quarks said:

I don't want to sound conspiracy minded or anything, but WB does own the film rights to Harry Potter.  

Well that explains it.  They drop references because they can.

52 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I doubt they'd join forces.  They're both too egomanical for that.  Also, Zoom wants to rule the world while Darkh wants to destroy and rebuild it (and then rule it).  Even so, playing "let's you and him fight" with Zoom and Darkh is probably not the best move.  Do you seriously think either of them would try to avoid massive destructive moves that would slaughter hundreds of civilians?  I'm guessing no.

 

Andy was interesting to me.  I'm pretty sure he was deliberately trying to goad John into killing him.  On a deep level Andy probably did regret the choices he'd made and the cost he'd paid.  He also probably didn't want to see John, Lyla and little Sara die in Darkh's holocaust.  He wasn't consciously suicidal, but I can see his issues causing him to subconsciously seek a way out, even if that way was suicide by brother.

Given he could bring himself to say his family's names,  you may be right   He also just may have been so certain that Jihn would never hurt him he got cocky 'cause that looked like surprise on Andy's face to me.

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I figured out why I didn't care for the episode. 

Like I don't really get this whole lightness vs darkness thing and why the light is the only way. Is it supposed to automagically fix Oliver's trauma and PTSD?

IMO if he takes vengeance on Darkh it doesn't fucking matter to me that he goes dark to do it. Because there is nothing that says going dark for a reason dooms you to staying in that dark place forever.

If they want light to defeat the dark, why not just have Felicity be that light? Not just have her be a voice with 10 other Voices of Light. Let her battle with Oliver

It has no real dramatic reasonance for me and I just think back s1 and s2 where the darkness was a thing but it was organic and made sense. It didn't require magic idols to show Oliver the way. Bleh.

I dunno I gotta rewatch and see if I'm just a grump or this whole plot line is annoying me.

It isn't about Oliver becoming light.  It's about him being able to channel it despite his dark past.  And the main reason why he has to fight the darkness with the light is because the only way to match DD's power would be to fuel it by death.  I thought it was a nice distinction that this was the solution for THIS kind of magic and Oliver isn't wielding magic so much as negating it's effect on him. 

As for why Felicity doesn't do it, I don't think idols or tattoos are as easy to come by so it had to be Oliver.  Even the tattoo Constantine gave him was something Constantine only had one of.  Plus even if Felicity negated DD's magic on her, would Oliver, the one doing hand to hand combat with him, still be vulnerable?   

[TwistedandBored]

The episode was slow to start but really picked up toward the end. I enjoyed everyone story and I like how it all came together in the end.

 

Also, please make Layla a regular, she is soo badass!  

[dtissagirl]

46 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I figured out why I didn't care for the episode. 

Like I don't really get this whole lightness vs darkness thing and why the light is the only way. Is it supposed to automagically fix Oliver's trauma and PTSD?

I'm pretty sure we're supposed to believe Oliver's PTSD has been mostly gone since the Summer of Loving. A whole lot of the character beats about not wanting to come back in 401 was tied to that -- he felt he was over the rump re: his traumas, and he didn't want to revisit it by coming back to SC.

The point now is to figure out how to deal with the ~darkness~ without it once again triggering the trauma and the PTSD. It's already started, even -- Oliver being the voice of reason and moral/emotional support to the others in the aftermath of Laurel's death is totally supposed to reflect the kinder, gentler Oliver who ISN'T in PTSD mode anymore.

This episode was supposed to tell him that it's not even that he has to "find another way", but that he literally needs THE OPPOSITE of going dark to fight the darkness this time around. They embedded it in the premise that if Oliver succumbs to darkness he. will. lose. this. fight.

Edited May 5, 2016 by dtissagirl

[tv echo]

Just think... if Oliver had gotten the Constantine referral and gone to Hub City six months ago, then he would've been clued in to the whole light magical way to defeat Darhk before Christmas - and Laurel would not have died.

[BkWurm1]

So Constantine killed Laurel!

I guess he was pissed she was messing with forces she didn't understand.

[TwistedandBored]

I think out of everyone on Arrow, baby Sara grew up the most hardcore. Season 3, she was born. Soon afterwards, she was introduce to the secret identity of her parents and her godparents/family friends. She has also seen her "uncle" break into their home kidnapping mommy. This season, she came a long for her first mission. Surviving motorcycle chases and dodging bullets/cars with her father's help. 

 

I expect something bigger things from her next season. 

[Delphi]

Just throwing this petty complaint out there: super powerful, black jack playing magician. ..is there a reason I didn't get Zatanna Zatara on my screen?  Is dc saving her for something? 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Oh, nice touch. Someone in the makeup department remembered to put Felicity's scar. Kinda forgot where on her back it is exactly. Looks like it moved a little :P

For reference:

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, Delphi said:

Just throwing this petty complaint out there: super powerful, black jack playing magician. ..is there a reason I didn't get Zatanna Zatara on my screen?  Is dc saving her for something? 

Assuming she exists in this universe, she's probably busy doing something else.  Closing demon gates.  Lifting curses.  Getting therapy for dyslexia.  Like that. 

[kismet]

15 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm not surprised that hope and love and light vs darkness are used since they are a repeating theme found in comic book inspired shows but it does feel like more than an accident to have the same plot points pop up on multiple shows run by the same group so close together.  It's like the sudden rise of Harry Potty references we've been getting lately.  Are they seeking a sponsorship? 

The writers must have binged Harry Potter over the summer. HP is modern magical mythos, it wouldn't surprise me that they turned there for inspiration. The HP references have been in there from 401. There were inferi, chosen ones, magical markings, magically infused artifacts/trinkets. I half expected the flashbacks would host a Triwizard Tournament. Perhaps they are waiting for the next crossover.

I was not surprised by the Patronus analogy, it was really spot on. Which lead me to think about this scene in HP

So is LL Cedric Diggory or maybe Cho Chang? I can go with either analogy... ooh it might actually be fun to find character analogies between HP & Arrow characters. Is MM secretly Voldemort? Always the bad force, but never the actual big bad until the final book. FS is definitely Hermione. OQ is Harry, obviously. After some of his hasty decisions, Dig might be Ron or maybe Dig is all the Weasleys rolled into one. Donna could be Luna. Lyla feels like McGonagall. Hmm.... who is QL? who is TQ? I'm gonna have to think about this.

[Delphi]

Thea is Angelina, naturally.    Athletic and driven.

Eta: Or Tonks.  Thea could be Tonks.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Delphi
epiphany

[ComicFan777]

I'd say that Malcolm Merlyn is more like Peter Pettigrew.

[TVHappy9463]

I guess I am alone on this one, but this was just ok. A couple of moments stood out like, the look on Diggle's face after he shot Andy, Olicity's chemstry, Lyla and Sara.  

The shaman witch person was too over the top.  Thea/Alex, don't care and ready for DD to be over. 

Let's hope season 5 will be better.  

[Angel12d]

Lyla is so badass she put the implant containing Rubicon under her skin. That is hardcore. 

I wanna know how Damien knew it was there though.

[nksarmi]

1 hour ago, kismet said:

The writers must have binged Harry Potter over the summer. HP is modern magical mythos, it wouldn't surprise me that they turned there for inspiration. The HP references have been in there from 401. There were inferi, chosen ones, magical markings, magically infused artifacts/trinkets. I half expected the flashbacks would host a Triwizard Tournament. Perhaps they are waiting for the next crossover.

I was not surprised by the Patronus analogy, it was really spot on. Which lead me to think about this scene in HP

So is LL Cedric Diggory or maybe Cho Chang? I can go with either analogy... ooh it might actually be fun to find character analogies between HP & Arrow characters. Is MM secretly Voldemort? Always the bad force, but never the actual big bad until the final book. FS is definitely Hermione. OQ is Harry, obviously. After some of his hasty decisions, Dig might be Ron or maybe Dig is all the Weasleys rolled into one. Donna could be Luna. Lyla feels like McGonagall. Hmm.... who is QL? who is TQ? I'm gonna have to think about this.

I have a hard time comparing Team Arrow to HP kid characters. I mean sure you can do Felicity equals Hermione pretty easily, but Oliver does not fit Harry at all - well with the possible exception of when Harry wants to do things all on his own, but he has far more tendency to rely on his friends than Oliver. For me, Oliver would be more like Lupin - damaged with darkness lurking within, but a genuinely good guy.

[tarotx]

3 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

I have a hard time comparing Team Arrow to HP kid characters. I mean sure you can do Felicity equals Hermione pretty easily, but Oliver does not fit Harry at all - well with the possible exception of when Harry wants to do things all on his own, but he has far more tendency to rely on his friends than Oliver. For me, Oliver would be more like Lupin - damaged with darkness lurking within, but a genuinely good guy.

 

Plus that whole werewolf thing ;)