S07.E07: Man Of The House

[ReadMeLattice]

I just hope he's off the 'roids-- guy has some rage issues. 

[truelovekiss]

57 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

Nathan hired an attorney a few months ago and has an active custody case in the works. He's suing for full custody and is using a lot of Uncle Dave's priors as a reason he wants the Roll out of Jenelle's house. He is also accusing Jenelle of neglecting the little chubster and leaving him with strangers while she traipses around the country with her new soulmate.

Jesus God, what kind of a world is it when Nathan is the better parent?

[ChristmasJones]

Nathan has his faults, for sure, but I've always seen him as being slightly "better" than Janelle.

[ReadMeLattice]

Lol, I know, right? It's a terrifying world where this guy is (potentially, I'm not convinced) the "stabler" parent. 

http://starcasm.net/archives/241823

I know I watch them and thus am part of the problem, but I can't believe these people make money off of this sometimes. 

[Lemons]

51 minutes ago, truelovekiss said:

Jesus God, what kind of a world is it when Nathan is the better parent?

He has a worse record than Adam.  They both have the same dismal unsafe driving Records along with DUI's and you can add domestic violence to Nathan's list of issues.   he needs to show he can change his ways and control himself before he gets unsupervised visits.

[Sounditout]

I say this every time I post but I really hate this show.  If not for these boards I couldn't watch, I would have too much pent up anger.  I can't watch the after shows, I have tried and got part way through and wanted to choke the ass-kissing host through my screen.  She might as well just hand them all "mom of the year" awards and call it a day.  Not 10 minutes in and we are hearing bull crap come out of Leah's mouth.  Wth dinner was she at with Jeremy if she thought there was hope for the two of them.  He couldn't even muster up a smile or laugh even with free food and drinks.  And I am so tired of her blaming everything on Corey and basically lying about everything.  As others have mentioned why the hell does MTV let her get away with it?  Leah is never going to change for the better with all these freakin enablers around her.  Same goes for Janelle.  She is given the okay to be horrible to everyone including her kid.  I hope Nathan gets custody, I don't care for him much but I think Kaiser is better off with him.  I lol'd at Chelsea's bar stool matching her hat, I can only imagine what her wedding will look like.  And did I miss the episode where they moved?  That is not the same house is it? I loved Pete cuddling with her like a dog, he is the only thing that makes me smile on this show.  

[blubld43]

6 hours ago, Lemons said:

he needs to show he can change his ways and control himself before he gets unsupervised visits.

well, in light of Jenelle's horrendous "parenting", I'm hoping Nathan wins custody.  IMO Jenelle is the one who needs to be supervised.

[mscav]

I agree that Nathan is not parent of the year material, he really doesn't even seem to be parent material. That being said, I would not fear for the Roll's safety with him as I do with Janelle and Uncle Dave. I can easily see Janelle leaving him in his room to scream as she does so often, and anger issues Uncle Dave getting sick of it and going in there to "shut the kid up" or "give him something to cry about". I truly worry that that baby will be hospitalized or dead with that man around him.

[ghoulina]

The difference between Nathan and Adam is the other parent. Aubrey's alternative parent is Chelsea, who, while immature and ineffective at times, is stable and loving and not dangerous in any way. Kaiser's alternative is Jenelle, who is completely devoid of any sense or emotion. She is constantly bringing another asshole into her life and putting him before her children. She keeps Kai confined to playpens and highchairs and as often as she can, and I have literally never seen a look of affection on her face  for that child. At least when Kai was born I remember Nathan looking enamored of him and doing a lot of the parenting while Jenelle laid in bed. Nathan is definitely a loser and I don't think he should have had kids, but if the choice is between him and Jenelle, I pick him. 

[Tatum]

28 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

The difference between Nathan and Adam is the other parent. Aubrey's alternative parent is Chelsea, who, while immature and ineffective at times, is stable and loving and not dangerous in any way. Kaiser's alternative is Jenelle, who is completely devoid of any sense or emotion. She is constantly bringing another asshole into her life and putting him before her children. She keeps Kai confined to playpens and highchairs and as often as she can, and I have literally never seen a look of affection on her face  for that child. At least when Kai was born I remember Nathan looking enamored of him and doing a lot of the parenting while Jenelle laid in bed. Nathan is definitely a loser and I don't think he should have had kids, but if the choice is between him and Jenelle, I pick him. 

 

So much agree. Saying Nathan would be the better parent is not at all a testament to his parenting skills (which are questionable at best, but the guy has a rap sheet and rage issues and is umemployed and mostly idle), but merely a testament to just how bad Jenelle is. Honestly, the deck is stacked against Kaiser either way, but Nathan's way might just slightly less fuck him up than Jenelle's way. It's a really sad situation.

[ReadMeLattice]

I tend to agree that "anyone not Jenelle" would generally be a better choice. What I do worry about is Nathan's unpredictability. Jenelle is always about the same level of "don't give a fuck" these days, while Nathan could go either way. He doesn't seem to have any integrity or a personality of his own, so it seems like he takes on the qualities of whoever he's with to an extent (adding 'roids and alcohol abuse, of course). That might be OK now that he's with Jessica, who doesn't seem to have the same level of issues as Jenelle, but how long is that going to last? What would Nathan be like as a single dad in a crisis like a breakup? Or if he got with another woman more at his level of fuck-upery again? Would he snap? It only takes once to do real damage. 

I also wonder how much he would care about Kaiser if the cameras weren't there. His ex's parents are his daughter's guardians, not his ex or him, so clearly both he and his ex had major problems at least at the time--even Jenelle has custody of Kaiser, so the mother must have had some real issues to have no custody at all. And I don't think he's filed for custody of her. So does he prefer Kai, or is it a show for MTV cameras, or...?

Also, he clearly had at least one addiction. Like I have always doubted it with Jenelle, I very much doubt he is actually sober. Again, I bet he's not drinking as much now because his current girlfriend isn't as stressful or as much of a drinker as Jenelle is, or as Emery's mom likely was. But what happens if he's on his own, or relapses, or gets with someone else? Do we really believe Nathan is in AA or seeking therapy for his PTSD and addiction(s)?

Edited April 29, 2016 by Lm2162

[truelovekiss]

52 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

The difference between Nathan and Adam is the other parent. Aubrey's alternative parent is Chelsea, who, while immature and ineffective at times, is stable and loving and not dangerous in any way. Kaiser's alternative is Jenelle, who is completely devoid of any sense or emotion. She is constantly bringing another asshole into her life and putting him before her children. She keeps Kai confined to playpens and highchairs and as often as she can, and I have literally never seen a look of affection on her face  for that child. At least when Kai was born I remember Nathan looking enamored of him and doing a lot of the parenting while Jenelle laid in bed. Nathan is definitely a loser and I don't think he should have had kids, but if the choice is between him and Jenelle, I pick him. 

I agree with this. I think Nathan does have genuine love for Kaiser, but is also very selfish and immature. I don't think he's a great dad, but I've seen more feelings for his son than Jenelle ever has. I don't know if I could say the same for his daughter, unfortunately. He's definitely the type of guy to take much more pride in having a son. Which makes total sense, because he needs a male heir to inherit his lands and titles.

[ReadMeLattice]

7 minutes ago, truelovekiss said:

I agree with this. I think Nathan does have genuine love for Kaiser, but is also very selfish and immature. I don't think he's a great dad, but I've seen more feelings for his son than Jenelle ever has. I don't know if I could say the same for his daughter, unfortunately. He's definitely the type of guy to take much more pride in having a son. Which makes total sense, because he needs a male heir to inherit his lands and titles.

He's a total misogynist/homophobe and has said the latter openly. Which makes me hope that when Kaiser is 18 or 21 and safely financially and physically untethered from his father, he comes out as gay. 

He says it's because he's a Christian-- I guess all that stuff about drunkenness and fornication and divorce don't count for Sir Nathan.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Lm2162

[truelovekiss]

11 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

He's a total misogynist/homophobe and has said the latter openly. Which makes me hope that when Kaiser is 18 or 21 and safely financially and physically untethered from his father, he comes out as gay. 

He says it's because he's a Christian-- I guess all that stuff about drunkenness and fornication and divorce don't count for Sir Nathan.

Or the part where it says no tattoos...which is, incidentally, in the no gays part in Leviticus.

[Tatum]

1 hour ago, Lm2162 said:

 

I also wonder how much he would care about Kaiser if the cameras weren't there. His ex's parents are his daughter's guardians, not his ex or him, so clearly both he and his ex had major problems at least at the time--even Jenelle has custody of Kaiser, so the mother must have had some real issues to have no custody at all. And I don't think he's filed for custody of her. So does he prefer Kai, or is it a show for MTV cameras, or...?

I would bet his daughter's mother surrendered custody voluntarily, or did what Jenelle did with Jace. For all her bitching about how Barb "stole" Jace from her, I bet had Jenelle followed through with the custody battle at any point in the last 6 years she would have won. She just usually lost interest and let Barb keep him. I assume Nathan's ex is in the same boat.

 

As far as why Nathan wants Kaiser, it could be the cameras/TM2 money. It could be that Kaiser is a boy. It could be that his daughter is somewhat stable where she's at, vs. Kaiser who is with Jenelle. It could be out of spite towards Jenelle. It is likely a combination of the four.

[blubld43]

Quote

Like I have always doubted it with Jenelle, I very much doubt he is actually sober

wait what?  Doesn't Jenelle still smoke weed?  I don't believe for two seconds that she's sober.  It feels bad to be like Jenelle, from what I hear; she is self-medicating whatever diagnosis she has, IMO.

[Tatum]

I think the poster meant she doubted both Nathan and Jenelle were sober.

[ReadMeLattice]

3 minutes ago, blubld43 said:

wait what?  Doesn't Jenelle still smoke weed?  I don't believe for two seconds that she's sober.  It feels bad to be like Jenelle, from what I hear; she is self-medicating whatever diagnosis she has, IMO.

Right, that's why I said I doubted her claims. Personally I don't think weed counts as it actually lowers your likelihood of violence... I for one am grateful Jenelle smokes or we'd probably see more violence from her (agree that she is self-medicating her bipolar disorder). I meant more like drinking. I assume she still drinks. 

And yeah, the ex likely gave up custody, but still, there had to be some major substance abuse or other issues for her to do so and for Nathan to be fine with it. Or he just doesn't care about his daughter. 

Edited April 29, 2016 by Lm2162

[SPLAIN]

Nipples needs a storyline. Just like Jenelle's storyline is to get Jace back, Nipples has the same storyline with regards to Kaiser. 

Glad to know Nipples has filed a custody case, but I too think it is about sticking it to Jenelle. Nipples allowed so much time to pass before filing court documents for custody.

Edited April 29, 2016 by SPLAIN

[blubld43]

19 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

Personally I don't think weed counts as it actually lowers your likelihood of violence... I for one am grateful Jenelle smokes or we'd probably see more violence from her (agree that she is self-medicating her bipolar disorder). I meant more like drinking. I assume she still drinks. 

I agree, it's a good thing she has weed. I just don't believe it's all she consumes.

Or Nathan either, for that matter.  Poor Kaiser is just SOL.

Edited April 29, 2016 by blubld43

[Lemons]

2 hours ago, truelovekiss said:

I agree with this. I think Nathan does have genuine love for Kaiser, but is also very selfish and immature. I don't think he's a great dad, but I've seen more feelings for his son than Jenelle ever has. I don't know if I could say the same for his daughter, unfortunately. He's definitely the type of guy to take much more pride in having a son. Which makes total sense, because he needs a male heir to inherit his lands and titles.

People can act for the camera.  And some people are more demonstrative and showy than others.  Nathan would be the type to literally drop the baby as soon as the camera guy closes the door.  Of all the guys on this show I would say that Nathan is the worst.  He found Jenelle because of the show.  He convinced her to have a baby with no intention of ever supporting that baby.

[ReadMeLattice]

Yes. Nathan is VERY invested in how he comes off. He has a huge ego. 

When there was that rumor that he was gay, which most people would have laughed off or ignored (who cares what people think about your sexual orientation?), he flipped and had Jenelle write and retweet all sorts of anti-gay "Christian" rhetoric and go on and on about what a macho straight man he is, blah blah. 

Edited April 29, 2016 by Lm2162

[mscav]

13 minutes ago, Lemons said:

People can act for the camera.  And some people are more demonstrative and showy than others.  Nathan would be the type to literally drop the baby as soon as the camera guy closes the door.  Of all the guys on this show I would say that Nathan is the worst.  He found Jenelle because of the show.  He convinced her to have a baby with no intention of ever supporting that baby.

I agree with you 100%. I just think the baby is safer with him then Janelle, or as the Ashley put it, better off with the fry cook at Burger King then with any of these people. Poor baby.

[DNR]

Wow.  How long till the police are regular visitors to Janelle & Uncle Daves residence.  She's got herself another winner. Poor little Kaiser Roll is going to witness a lot of domestic violence between those two sociopaths. That poor baby :(

[Tatum]

15 minutes ago, mscav said:

I agree with you 100%. I just think the baby is safer with him then Janelle, or as the Ashley put it, better off with the fry cook at Burger King then with any of these people. Poor baby.

Agree. Even if we could conclude that Jenelle and Nathan are a wash, we still have to consider the other factor- the partners these two are going to have. There will inevitably be a revolving door, and just based on stats alone, Jenelle has a higher probability of picking up an abusive partner than Nathan does.

 

Regardless, can you imagine what it will be like to be Kaiser? Long stretches of neglect and being treated like an unwanted albatross, broken up by bits of attention/affection when one of his parents wants to impress an SO, a judge, a photo op, or just stick it to the other parent. Kaiser will never be able to understand why sometimes his parents act like they care about him and other times they are indifferent/act like they hate him. It is heartbreaking and these two are unbelievable assholes for bringing a kid into this situation.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Kail Sends Her Husband Off To Someplace Even Less Fun Than Delaware

In an episode full of almosts, Leah isn't putting Ali in the wheelchair she needs, Chelsea isn't changing Aubree's last name yet, and Jenelle still won't let Nathan see his kid.

[Pepper Mostly]

22 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

 

When my cousin's son was a baby, when he had him for the weekend or during the holidays he had a Pack n' Play ready to set up next to his bed in his room and that was fine with everyone. What does a baby need his own room for to visit?

hahahaha, are there enough bedrooms in Janelle's house for Lurch's kids? Hasn't he moved in?

[Lemons]

34 minutes ago, mscav said:

I agree with you 100%. I just think the baby is safer with him then Janelle, or as the Ashley put it, better off with the fry cook at Burger King then with any of these people. Poor baby.

Jenelle and Nathan are not the only choices.  If Child Services gets involved for whatever reason, they will not choose Nathan because he is better than Jenelle.  The baby would go into foster care or with a relative.  Nathan needs to work on his current situation before he can be considered for sole custody.   

[ReadMeLattice]

10 minutes ago, Lemons said:

Jenelle and Nathan are not the only choices.  If Child Services gets involved for whatever reason, they will not choose Nathan because he is better than Jenelle.  The baby would go into foster care or with a relative.  Nathan needs to work on his current situation before he can be considered for sole custody.   

Honestly, I'd rather see Kaiser adopted, placed with a relative (Nathan's mom?), or placed in foster care than with Nathan. Right now he seems OK, but all it takes is one fall off the wagon (we saw how scary he got--and what if he decided to drive again with Kai in the car?), a breakup, a roid binge, or a new girlfriend who is slightly more off her rocker than Jessica (and it ain't like those two are getting married and settling down for a long life of stability), and Kaiser is screwed. 

Edited April 29, 2016 by Lm2162

[ShaNaeNae]

I had no idea Nathan was dating Joyce DeWitt. 

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, DNR said:

Wow.  How long till the police are regular visitors to Janelle & Uncle Daves residence.  She's got herself another winner. Poor little Kaiser Roll is going to witness a lot of domestic violence between those two sociopaths. That poor baby :(

I think David is another factor in why I'd rather see Kaiser with Nathan. David scares the crap out of me, and he and Jenelle are bound to be a horrible combo as time goes by. Jessica, while definitely not the brightest bulb, seems fairly calm, more innocuous. 

Of course, if I had my way, Brandon and Teresa would have adopted Kai long ago. 

[teapot]

28 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

 

Of course, if I had my way, Brandon and Teresa would have adopted Kai long ago. 

I think I might even be okay with shipping him off to Leah's & letting Gracie look after him

[blubld43]

7 minutes ago, teapot said:

I think I might even be okay with shipping him off to Leah's & letting Gracie look after him

Bwahh.......now Gracie would be just fine.  She'd feed him, play with him, find him something to wear.....Kaiser would have a lot of fun there.

[CofCinci]

2 hours ago, DNR said:

Wow.  How long till the police are regular visitors to Janelle & Uncle Daves residence.  She's got herself another winner. Poor little Kaiser Roll is going to witness a lot of domestic violence between those two sociopaths. That poor baby :(

Once David is completely over with the terrorizing and abusing of his ex, that's when he'll pivot and start focusing solely on Jenelle.  We all know what's coming in her future with David. Does she? Is this a lesson that she needs to learn?

[Katt]

Oh, Jenelley has so chosen the wrong person to fuck with this time. For all her rantings of "you're mean to me!" and calling the police every time soulmate of the day doesn't agree with her, I think she's cried wolf too many times and this one WILL give her a real reason for the DV claims. I also don't know that it's a lesson she needs to learn because this one will be headlines and it won't be because we know who she is already. 

[configdotsys]

Re: people who are not the type to cry out loud or show emotions. That's all or nothing thing. You either keep it inside and lose it in private or you don't. Kail has shown many times that she's quite capable of showing her emotions either through crying, whining and even hitting. She's a nasty piece of work who has a "Fuck you world. I had a shit upbringing so now I'm doing whatever the hell I want" attitude and has no regard for anyone, even the people she is close to. It's all about her thinking that she's owed something. She's not owed a thing. To her, it seems everyone is easily disposable.

[MissMel]

4 hours ago, ShaNaeNae said:

I had no idea Nathan was dating Joyce DeWitt. 

I just want to say that I'm so happy to see you got this last name correct! And thank you, that is who she looks like. I thought she reminded me of someone. I just couldn't figure out who it was. 

[kdl88]

5 hours ago, ShaNaeNae said:

I had no idea Nathan was dating Joyce DeWitt. 

This might be the best comment I've seen in any of these forums, ever.  Nicely done.

Even if we didn't know about Uncle Dave's history, he's already showing the classic signs.  Jealousy and moving way too fast in the relationship are two huge red flags.  

[leighroda]

I would like to throw my hat in the ring as Kaisers guardian... He is a cute little chub!  

 

Its a sad sad world when most of us concede that Nathan is the better parent over Jenelle... A role that could also be filled by my puppy, a mop, and Charlie Sheen.  

 

As as far as the Adam/Nathan comparison... Yes they have similar records on paper and I'm not advocating that either would be "good", but for what it's worth Nathan does seem to genuinely love the roll.  I would say he is definitely far more paternal than Adam... Maybe it's an act for the cameras but I feel like when they have shown them together Nathan shows far more feelings for Kaiser than Adam ever has for either of his girls.  

 

I hate to say it, but I would be willing to bet that there has already been DV between Jenelle and Dave... She always claims everything to be puppy and rainbows until it's not, then it was "bad the whole time".  I don't think there has been police involvement yet because we likely would know about that, but I'm pretty sure stuff has already gone down. 

[configdotsys]

I meant to add in my previous post that this Dave guy scares me more than all of Jenelle's previous boyfriends combined. I am scared for her. 

[truelovekiss]

7 hours ago, teapot said:

I think I might even be okay with shipping him off to Leah's & letting Gracie look after him

Gracie doesn't want more babies. Just ask her ?

[shelley1234]

10 minutes ago, configdotsys said:

I meant to add in my previous post that this Dave guy scares me more than all of Jenelle's previous boyfriends combined. I am scared for her. 

Yep.  I think she's a little better off that his last ex...mainly because of the cameras, but they don't film 24/7 and with how volatile Jenelle can get when she fights....could be bad bad news.  

[Joe Jitsu913]

1 hour ago, configdotsys said:

I meant to add in my previous post that this Dave guy scares me more than all of Jenelle's previous boyfriends combined. I am scared for her. 

I'm not feeling much pity for Jenelle.  She actively seeks these losers out and instigates drama. She's also not some shrinking violet.  She meets strange men on Tinder with little regard for her safety or her  child's safety and let's them move right in, criminal record be damned. I've lived next to a Jenelle. I guarantee the police and the dispatch know Jenelle on a first name basis. I'm not afraid for her safety but I'm afraid for her children's safety. They didn't ask for this.

[MissMel]

Is Dave the guy Barbara referred to as Jenelle's "worst boyfriend ever"? Or am I getting boyfriends mixed up?

[ReadMeLattice]

5 hours ago, configdotsys said:

Re: people who are not the type to cry out loud or show emotions. That's all or nothing thing. You either keep it inside and lose it in private or you don't. Kail has shown many times that she's quite capable of showing her emotions either through crying, whining and even hitting. She's a nasty piece of work who has a "Fuck you world. I had a shit upbringing so now I'm doing whatever the hell I want" attitude and has no regard for anyone, even the people she is close to. It's all about her thinking that she's owed something. She's not owed a thing. To her, it seems everyone is easily disposable.

Just pointing out that that's not necessarily true. A lot of trauma can make you reticent to show emotions like vulnerability whereas you'd feel comfortable displaying anger (either because it's less vulnerable or because you grew up around anger, but no other emotions) or crying/whining in a way that appears 'manipulative.' Even mental health professionals can have this kind of problem with people who have PTSD or other trauma-related mental illnesses and are taught to see beyond what they see as manipulative or cold behavior to the underlying pain. It doesn't make someone's behavior OK or acceptable or not hurtful to those around them, but it's not true that it's 'good person who shows a full range of emotions and shows them in a healthy way' vs. 'person who doesn't show any emotion.' Especially if you are dealing with a lot of trauma and mental illness in someone's past. Kailyn has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Part of the reason it's an illness and part of the aftermath of trauma means that it DOESN'T 'make sense' to a healthy person. If it did, it would not be an illness or the aftermath of trauma.

Re: DV and David, I don't think that domestic violence is a 'lesson' ANYONE needs to learn. 

MTV would earn my respect if they turned this show into a therapy show. They all need it so desperately. 

Edited April 30, 2016 by Lm2162

[GreatKazu]

What kills me about Leah being able to get all kinds of editing from the deer cam footage to Mr. Dues being removed entirely from Leah's world, is the fact Leah is out there claiming how MTV is wrong for all the "bad editing" she is getting and how the show is "fake ass". Excuse me bitch, you are the one who has MTV by the balls and crying " monkey". You are lying through your rotten tobacco and Mountain-Dew teeth week after week and giving the public "fake ass" interviews.  This is a fake ass show because they are not giving us viewers the real truth with what is going on in Leah's life. 

[leighroda]

@GreatKazu right!? If anyone has benefitted from editing it's Leah, so I don't know what she's crying about. I wonder if Dues edit out has anything to do with the fact that they met because MTV hired him to be Leah's trainer (which btw he is not doing a good job I would venture to say she is getting unhealthy looking skinny, likely related to drug use) I don't know why it would matter that MTV originally hired him, it's just a theory.

[blubld43]

Quote

Its a sad sad world when most of us concede that Nathan is the better parent over Jenelle... A role that could also be filled by my puppy, a mop, and Charlie Sheen. 

I agree with the puppy and the mop, not Charlie though.

Quote

I guarantee the police and the dispatch know Jenelle on a first name basis

Guaranteed, and all the neighbors too.  Those people probably all watched in horror as Jenelle moved in this guy.

[configdotsys]

11 hours ago, Joe Jitsu913 said:

I'm not feeling much pity for Jenelle.  She actively seeks these losers out and instigates drama. She's also not some shrinking violet.  She meets strange men on Tinder with little regard for her safety or her  child's safety and let's them move right in, criminal record be damned. I've lived next to a Jenelle. I guarantee the police and the dispatch know Jenelle on a first name basis. I'm not afraid for her safety but I'm afraid for her children's safety. They didn't ask for this.

I hear you. It is very hard for me to feel sorry for her, but there is something about this guy I guess that the fear I get watching him blocks out my disdain for Jenelle. He just has such a scary vibe.

Someone mentioned upthread about being amused at Nathan saying para-nalia. I laughed at that too and when he talked about her "ellenating" Kaiser. 

[blubld43]

Quote

Someone mentioned upthread about being amused at Nathan saying para-nalia. I laughed at that too and when he talked about her "ellenating" Kaiser

All these guys on both iterations of Teen Mom show their lack of education every time they speak.  The women too.  Is this lack of higher education, too much time on social media, combination of both?  It drives me crazy every time I hear one of them butcher the language and they ALL do it, maybe excepting Kail and family.

Edited April 30, 2016 by blubld43