"Oh HELL No!": TV Moments That Make You Irate

[Dr.OO7]

4 hours ago, paulvdb said:

think I can only remember one show that actually had a stalkerish character acknowledge their bad behavior and change it. On the Nickelodeon show Bella & the Bulldogs one of the male characters was acting like that towards one of the female characters who was not at all interested in him. In an episode in the second season he ended up on the other side of this with a girl who was interested in him and that made him realize his own bad behavior.

How refreshing. And on a kids show, no less.

[AstridM]

On 5/14/2023 at 1:16 PM, Bruinsfan said:

Joss Whedon flipped his lid over Charisma Carpenter getting pregnant without his "permission," and she was a married woman in her early 30s who'd already had two demonic pregnancy storylines on his show that were accepted just fine by the audience. Convicted serial sexual assailant Bill Cosby gets no benefit of the doubt from me in any conflict with any woman.

I’ve always hated Josh Whedon, too. 

[RunningMarket]

On the "stalking is love" front - I caught an episode of Saved by the Bell over the weekend, and it reminded me that Screech was constantly over the top in his pursuit of Lisa. She always said no, he kept pursuing her - and IIRC - he got mad during the random (one episode?) pairing of Zach and Lisa (he picked a fight with Zach and ripped his shirt). I didn't think it was funny back as a teen, and I certainly don't now.

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, RunningMarket said:

On the "stalking is love" front - I caught an episode of Saved by the Bell over the weekend, and it reminded me that Screech was constantly over the top in his pursuit of Lisa. She always said no, he kept pursuing her - and IIRC - he got mad during the random (one episode?) pairing of Zach and Lisa (he picked a fight with Zach and ripped his shirt). I didn't think it was funny back as a teen, and I certainly don't now.

Yes, but at least Lisa called him out on that behavior and told him flat-out that she was never going to feel the same way about him and he needed to get on with his life. And miracle of miracles, he actually listened and that crap was finally put to bed once and for all.

That never happened on Family Matters.

[Dr.OO7]

37 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yes, but at least Lisa called him out on that behavior and told him flat-out that she was never going to feel the same way about him and he needed to get on with his life. And miracle of miracles, he actually listened and that crap was finally put to bed once and for all.

That never happened on Family Matters.

Yes, and then Jesse idiotically tells him "Next time you meet a great girl, don't take "No" for an answer." So he instantly turns his attention to HER and sure enough, he doesn't listen when she tells him "No".

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Dr.OO7 said:

Yes, and then Jesse idiotically tells him "Next time you meet a great girl, don't take "No" for an answer." So he instantly turns his attention to HER and sure enough, he doesn't listen when she tells him "No".

True. But that ended with Violet came into the picture, a girl that actually liked Screech and whom he liked back, and not just as a placeholder for another girl. Again, it’s a sad day when Screech is a better guy that Steve Urkel.

[Dr.OO7]

4 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

True. But that ended with Violet came into the picture, a girl that actually liked Screech and whom he liked back, and not just as a placeholder for another girl. Again, it’s a sad day when Screech is a better guy that Steve Urkel.

It's sad that there's such an aversion to writing relationships normally on TV because the viewers supposedly hate it.

Guy: I like you

Girl: I like you too

Guy: Let's date!

Girl: Okay!

No, it's always years of dragging it out, being told that two people being at each other's throats equals them wanting to have sex,lots of Disposable Love Interests, lots of misunderstandings, etc, and by the time the couple finally gets together, the viewers are so exhausted and fed up that they don't care.

[Blergh]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

True. But that ended with Violet came into the picture, a girl that actually liked Screech and whom he liked back, and not just as a placeholder for another girl. Again, it’s a sad day when Screech is a better guy that Steve Urkel.

IMO, not exactly. I mean, Screech was annoying . However,  this didn't seem something he intentionally set out to do while Urkel WAS a deliberately annoying person who reveled in discomfiting his victims (Laura, Carl and all the other Winslows save for Grandma and Ritchie).

[scarynikki12]

I think Cosby hated Bonet personally and that was it. If he'd liked her personally they could have easily played Hide The Bump while she was pregnant. They did exactly that in season 3 when Phylicia Rashad was pregnant and it didn't tank the show or lead to Clair getting written off. But we know Cosby and Phylicia had and have a good personal relationship so it was no big deal to accommodate her pregnancy while it was used against Bonet.

[merylinkid]

22 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I think Cosby hated Bonet personally and that was it. If he'd liked her personally they could have easily played Hide The Bump while she was pregnant. They did exactly that in season 3 when Phylicia Rashad was pregnant and it didn't tank the show or lead to Clair getting written off. But we know Cosby and Phylicia had and have a good personal relationship so it was no big deal to accommodate her pregnancy while it was used against Bonet.

Cosby has admitted that he found Rashad less attractive after she got pregnant.   He said it made the flirty scenes much harder after that.   So I think its more a case of Rashad was older and had the clout to look at Cosby and say -- this is a show about a family you treat me badly and it tanks the show.   Whereas Bonet was basically a kid and had less clout.   Cosby did not like pregnant women.   But just as he didn't assault all women but only those he felt he could get away with, he didn't treat all pregnant women like crap, only those he had power over.

[Spartan Girl]

The season finale of Law and Order had Jack McCoy’s daughter Rebecca as the defense attorney for a guy that murdered a senator at his daughter’s wedding. The guy was a school shooting survivor that was upset about the senator changed his vote on gun regulations. Rebecca, going full Serena Sutherland, used PTSD as an excuse, and basically wanted her client to get off the hook completely, even though it was pretty obvious to all that it was a premeditated assassination. Even worse, she expected special treatment from Jack, thinking that she could use him to influence the verdict.

Jack, thankfully, refused to even discuss the case with her because of course that would be unprofessional and unethical, and went for the maximum sentence, which the jury found him guilty of. Rebecca throws a tantrum, accuses Jack of lacking any empathy, and pretty much implies she’s going to freeze him out of her life,

Wow. Wooooow.

First of all, Rebecca, if you expect your DA dad to throw you a favor to win a case, you’re not a very good lawyer. Which is pretty obvious when you refused to even consider a plea deal of 15 years, which considering the crime was the lowest you can hope for.

Second of all, where was your sympathy for the victim’s family?! That poor daughter is going to be forever scarred by the fact that her father was murdered right in front of her on her wedding day. How would you feel if that happened to you? Oh, but judging from the way you treated Jack, I guess you wouldn’t care.

Lastly and most importantly, did you ever stop to think that other school shooting survivors (not to mention mental health advocates) would be insulted by your whole PTSD excuse?! They were all traumatized, but they never tried to kill anyone, let alone a politician that they didn’t agree with. Far from sympathizing with your client, they would probably be angry that the asshole screwed over their cause for gun regulations, because now all their opponents can go, “See, these guys are the problem, not guns, they’re all crazy!”

So fuck you, Rebecca, you spoiled brat.

[Danielg342]

I'm going to throw this in here because, after some reflection, it deserves a place in the conversation at least.

The S1 finale of Fire Country.

I've seen a lot of moments on TV that made me irate, but none have ever made me so mad that I decided to quit watching a show. Until now.

Before I begin, I may have a detail or a few wrong because FC's writers wouldn't know "consistency" if it hit them in the face. Anyway, the story goes like this:

FC's main character is Bode (played by Max Thieriot, one of FC's executive producers and a co-creator), who once lived in the fictitious small California town of Edgewater until he made a choice that landed him in prison. To get his sentence reduced, he decides to volunteer for a state-run program where inmates are used to help fight fires. It's all gravy until he learns the program will send him to an inmate camp near his old hometown, where Bode has- supposedly- a ton of baggage.

Anyway, Bode settles in at this camp and makes a best friend along the way, a man named Freddy (played by the electric W. Tre Davis). For reasons that don't need to be expanded upon (because it will make your head hurt), Bode becomes a model inmate and a shining star at the camp, and, wouldn't you know it, Bode gets a parole hearing at the end of S1.

Meanwhile, Freddy is wrongfully convicted, because he couldn't provide his alibi that would take him away from the crime scene. Don't bother trying to figure out the details because the show didn't bother themselves. Anyway, two people agree to look into Freddy's case and they actually make progress. The first one was an inmate who was once a lawyer (and inexplicably killed off by the show) and the second was an Edgewater firefighter (named Eve) for reasons I still don't understand.

While that stuff is going on, Freddy and Bode fight numerous fires and are quite good at their jobs. Along the way, they meet some vagabond who hands them a bag of cash (containing tens of thousands of dollars),

Also along the way the inmate camp gets a new addition- a man named "Sleeper" (the show never gave him a name). Sleeper is heavily into drugs and drug running, and he continues his tricks at the camp. Bode tries to stop him, but Sleeper retaliates by trying to frame Freddy for the crime, but Bode foils that attempt.

Should be the end of the story, but, like the one-dimensional villain that he is, Sleeper promises Bode that "this ain't over"...and, sadly, it's not.

In the penultimate episode of the first season, Eve tells Freddy that, while she was able to find proof of his alibi, the courts are so backed up that the new trial date would only happen after his sentence concludes. So Freddy is resigned to his fate, even though going through with an appeal might actually benefit him (since he could clear his record).

We get to the final episode. Bode's parole hearing is coming up. However, a complication arises in that Bode- somehow- tested positive for drugs. What drug we're not told. Bode knows right away that Sleeper had something to do with it, but no one believes him (except Freddy).

That's not the only complication. Just before his parole hearing, an investigator comes up to him and accuses Bode of running a drug ring. Her only proof? Bode's failed test and that bag of money. This investigator also says that the delays in Freddy's appeal aren't due to a "court backlog" but the investigator's investigation, and if Bode would just fess up to running the drug ring, Freddy walks out of camp a free man.

What does Bode do?

Well, despite:

• Knowing the whole thing is a setup
• Invoking his right to an attorney
• Likely knowing the investigator has no actual proof that Bode ran a drug ring at the inmate camp (the show doesn't say that anyone else tested positive for "drugs", just Bode)
• The fact that Freddy's case is easy to solve, so the investigator can't hold up his appeal for that much longer
• The fact that Sleeper himself was caught red-handed dealing drugs since he was caught on camera doing so (the show did make that clear)

Despite all that...Bode decides to use his parole hearing to fess up to his non-existent crime and go back to regular jail, just so Freddy can be released.

The show tried to frame this as a "noble sacrifice", but all it did was make Bode look incredibly stupid. Bode knows a few more weeks' worth of investigating- proper investigating- would reveal Sleeper's involvement and Freddy gets to walk out a free man anyway.

Plus Freddy could get a lawyer himself and get the investigator off his trail because the investigator has no proof that Freddy was involved at all, apart from being Bode's best friend.

So why did Bode make his choice? I can only surmise it's because the writers- and Thieriot- wanted to have this big "angsty" moment where the writers think they're being clever by ripping away Bode's happy ending from under his nose. All so Thieriot make his best attempt at crying and looking sad (which occurred at the end of the episode) so he can get that Emmy.

I can only hope the Emmy committee would look past that obvious pile of hubris.

Could the show bounce back in S2 and make up for this metaphorical train wreck? Maybe, but the odds are not high. Bode's decision means that the same story that played in S1- where Bode had to repair all the bridges he burned in Edgewater- is going to play in S2, since his "confession" burned all those bridges again.

Having sat through shows who have hit "the reset button" before, I know those narratives don't end well, so it's highly unlikely I'll return to this slog. 

[proserpina65]

16 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

I'm going to throw this in here because, after some reflection, it deserves a place in the conversation at least.

The S1 finale of Fire Country.

I've seen a lot of moments on TV that made me irate, but none have ever made me so mad that I decided to quit watching a show. Until now.

Before I begin, I may have a detail or a few wrong because FC's writers wouldn't know "consistency" if it hit them in the face. Anyway, the story goes like this:

FC's main character is Bode (played by Max Thieriot, one of FC's executive producers and a co-creator), who once lived in the fictitious small California town of Edgewater until he made a choice that landed him in prison. To get his sentence reduced, he decides to volunteer for a state-run program where inmates are used to help fight fires. It's all gravy until he learns the program will send him to an inmate camp near his old hometown, where Bode has- supposedly- a ton of baggage.

Anyway, Bode settles in at this camp and makes a best friend along the way, a man named Freddy (played by the electric W. Tre Davis). For reasons that don't need to be expanded upon (because it will make your head hurt), Bode becomes a model inmate and a shining star at the camp, and, wouldn't you know it, Bode gets a parole hearing at the end of S1.

Meanwhile, Freddy is wrongfully convicted, because he couldn't provide his alibi that would take him away from the crime scene. Don't bother trying to figure out the details because the show didn't bother themselves. Anyway, two people agree to look into Freddy's case and they actually make progress. The first one was an inmate who was once a lawyer (and inexplicably killed off by the show) and the second was an Edgewater firefighter (named Eve) for reasons I still don't understand.

While that stuff is going on, Freddy and Bode fight numerous fires and are quite good at their jobs. Along the way, they meet some vagabond who hands them a bag of cash (containing tens of thousands of dollars),

Also along the way the inmate camp gets a new addition- a man named "Sleeper" (the show never gave him a name). Sleeper is heavily into drugs and drug running, and he continues his tricks at the camp. Bode tries to stop him, but Sleeper retaliates by trying to frame Freddy for the crime, but Bode foils that attempt.

Should be the end of the story, but, like the one-dimensional villain that he is, Sleeper promises Bode that "this ain't over"...and, sadly, it's not.

In the penultimate episode of the first season, Eve tells Freddy that, while she was able to find proof of his alibi, the courts are so backed up that the new trial date would only happen after his sentence concludes. So Freddy is resigned to his fate, even though going through with an appeal might actually benefit him (since he could clear his record).

We get to the final episode. Bode's parole hearing is coming up. However, a complication arises in that Bode- somehow- tested positive for drugs. What drug we're not told. Bode knows right away that Sleeper had something to do with it, but no one believes him (except Freddy).

That's not the only complication. Just before his parole hearing, an investigator comes up to him and accuses Bode of running a drug ring. Her only proof? Bode's failed test and that bag of money. This investigator also says that the delays in Freddy's appeal aren't due to a "court backlog" but the investigator's investigation, and if Bode would just fess up to running the drug ring, Freddy walks out of camp a free man.

What does Bode do?

Well, despite:

• Knowing the whole thing is a setup
• Invoking his right to an attorney
• Likely knowing the investigator has no actual proof that Bode ran a drug ring at the inmate camp (the show doesn't say that anyone else tested positive for "drugs", just Bode)
• The fact that Freddy's case is easy to solve, so the investigator can't hold up his appeal for that much longer
• The fact that Sleeper himself was caught red-handed dealing drugs since he was caught on camera doing so (the show did make that clear)

Despite all that...Bode decides to use his parole hearing to fess up to his non-existent crime and go back to regular jail, just so Freddy can be released.

The show tried to frame this as a "noble sacrifice", but all it did was make Bode look incredibly stupid. Bode knows a few more weeks' worth of investigating- proper investigating- would reveal Sleeper's involvement and Freddy gets to walk out a free man anyway.

Plus Freddy could get a lawyer himself and get the investigator off his trail because the investigator has no proof that Freddy was involved at all, apart from being Bode's best friend.

So why did Bode make his choice? I can only surmise it's because the writers- and Thieriot- wanted to have this big "angsty" moment where the writers think they're being clever by ripping away Bode's happy ending from under his nose. All so Thieriot make his best attempt at crying and looking sad (which occurred at the end of the episode) so he can get that Emmy.

I can only hope the Emmy committee would look past that obvious pile of hubris.

Could the show bounce back in S2 and make up for this metaphorical train wreck? Maybe, but the odds are not high. Bode's decision means that the same story that played in S1- where Bode had to repair all the bridges he burned in Edgewater- is going to play in S2, since his "confession" burned all those bridges again.

Having sat through shows who have hit "the reset button" before, I know those narratives don't end well, so it's highly unlikely I'll return to this slog. 

All this makes me so glad I gave up after the first episode.

[DearEvette]

18 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

All so Thieriot make his best attempt at crying and looking sad (which occurred at the end of the episode) so he can get that Emmy.

I can only hope the Emmy committee would look past that obvious pile of hubris.

I am sorry this legit made me do a spit take.  LOL.  He is not getting anywhere near an Emmy no matter how good he can cry on cue.

He'd have to do a Michael Jordan Air-esque leap over all of the Succession men, Pedro Pascal (who is a possible in two roles), Diego Luna, Bob Odenkirk, and Jeff Bridges.

The highest any male drama lead in a broadcast network ranks on any emmy contender list is Ramon Rodriguez from Will Trent.  And on the list  I saw he is the only broadcast contender. And he falls like, 20th, on the list.

On another list I saw they ranked every possible contender.  Hilariously, Theriot isn't on the list anywhere.  And the list includes the Million Little Things guys, a slew of NCIS and FBI male leads.

Naw, the closest he'll get this year is if he is handing out one.

[Danielg342]

4 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I am sorry this legit made me do a spit take.  LOL.  He is not getting anywhere near an Emmy no matter how good he can cry on cue.

I don't disagree. I didn't watch Max Thieriot and think "wow, there's an Emmy there!"

...but, I know Emmy-bait when I see it, and you can never tell with these award committees what they'll do. Certainly Thieriot and the Fire Country crew will do all the lobbying they need to do and they just may get rewarded for it, even if they shouldn't.

[magicdog]

Just happened to catch an episode of the vintage sitcom, "Hazel" and boy was this one more than a bit annoying!

In, "The Countess" (1964) Hazel finds out she may be the heir to a distant relative's estate which is that of an English countess.  She sends $25.00 to a law firm to confirm her claim as being related to the deceased.  Her friend and fellow maid "Myrtle" gets Hazel to spill the info and winds up spreading it around town.

Naturally, this sets everyone on their ear;  George's snobby sister Deidre want to throw a coming out party for the newfound royalty, people start offering freebies of one kind or another to Hazel (free cab rides, etc.) and even Harold, the Baxter's son (and in some ways a grandson to Hazel) gets involved by charging his friends a nickel to see "the countess".  

All of this wears on Hazel and when the lawyer comes by the house to confirm Hazel is the legit heir, she asks him if they could "call it off".  The lawyer says that would be impossible.  They ask about the inheritance and say that Hazel's grandparents gave up the rank of title when they left for the US, and the castle and estate were taken for taxes in 1882.  What does Hazel get?  Half a dozen silver spoons - tarnished ones at that!  Hazel is relieved.

We don't get to see any fallout from all the fuss made for her through the episode, but it bugged me for the basic reason that I can't stand it when a character in a show (or film) are set up to get a great inheritance or opportunity then it turns into nothing by the end.  I would have preferred that the inheritance have been misinterpreted by someone overhearing the conversation (say, status seeker Deidre) and thinking Hazel was royalty and coming into big things, then make the story from there.  Although to someone like Hazel IRL, a set of silver spoons probably would be a big deal.

[ML89]

On 6/19/2022 at 9:52 AM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Hi, are you me under an alternate identity? 😂I’ve written the exact thing more than once. Maybe I should make sure I didn’t change my username or sign up under a different email overnight. OK, I kid.

I discuss ER in some other spaces too and the worship most fans have for Abby is almost cult-like and weird. She’s smarter than all the attendings and department heads. She’s mother of the year even though she was willing to further endanger to demand the birth plan she wanted and abandoned him to go on a bender. Hell she couldn’t even keep her wacky family antics out of Carter’s Gamma’s funeral. Sorry Carter, you have no right to even peacefully bury Gamma cause here comes Abby’s crazy brother! And the way her problems are always Carter’s, Luka‘s, Sam’s or her family’s fault…never her own. She is never held responsible for anything. 

I understand that by S14 the show was on the way out and the quality of the original cast era was long gone and barely anyone was watching, but you’re right. I watched some episodes recently even before her crazy family arrived and even then they made it clear how she was always right and knew everything even when she walked away from a patient in OB who needed her (and of course Janet was portrayed such a bitch OMG for coming down on her and expecting her to stay on her unit) and went over Kerry’s head to do something even though she was so convinced she was right. 

::waves:: are you all also me? Abby drove me away from ER. The only moment that was good was Luka telling her “you’re not pretty, you’re not special” and then he fell for her.

[Cloud9Shopper]

25 minutes ago, ML89 said:

::waves:: are you all also me? Abby drove me away from ER. The only moment that was good was Luka telling her “you’re not pretty, you’re not special” and then he fell for her.

Luka would have married any woman who agreed to give him another child since he was crushing on Carol before his first go with Abby and then dated Sam prior to hooking back up with Abby and getting her accidentally knocked up even though she is the least maternal female main character on the show. (I also found it ridiculous that Abby who never wanted kids went from being in tears and panicking over a positive pregnancy test to acting like being a mom was her lifelong dream and eager to play happy family with Luka in less than 24 hours, and she was never all that happy with pregnancy and motherhood at the end of the day anyway.) 

I honestly have yet to hate a TV character more than her. Don’t know if it’s because she’s a Creator’s Pet to an extreme, or because ER was a once great show that started to go downhill when it focused too much on her, or if I’d avoid an Abby type like the plague IRL or what. (Although I think part of it is her fans who freak out if you say you hate her or try to insist we should see her as inspirational and “strong.”) The one character who did come close to being more hated for me was Barrett Cain on The Resident, but at least Morris Chestnut is hot. 😅 (Cain was terrible, though.) 

Although I am watching Glee right now and Will’s first wife is also pretty terrible. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Cloud9Shopper

[juno]

6 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I honestly have yet to hate a TV character more than her.

Maybe she should have got together with Rocket Romano. Keep all the horribleness in one delightful and fun package.

BTW may I introduce you to Roland Schitt.

[magicdog]

Got this from the first season of Bonanza:

In the episode, "The Bloodline" (1960) we have Luke Grayson, local drunk and ne'er do well.  He seemed to like picking fights while drunk and one day while at the general store with girlfriend, saloon girl Diane Jordan he tried to pick one with Ben Cartwright.  Luke shoots at Ben twice and Ben gets the drop on him and kills him in self defense.  Out of a sense of guilt and obligation, Ben agrees to pay for the funeral.  To make things worse, Luke's son Todd is coming back to town (having been educated back in Boston all this time) to live with his dad.  He arrives the day of the funeral.

Diane is devoted to Luke, perhaps undeservedly so, as he seemed to take advantage of her feelings for him but rarely returned them.  When she introduces herself to Todd and her relationship to his father, she makes things worse by claiming Ben murdered his father.  Even though there were witnesses to the contrary, she keeps letting Todd believe this.  He also thinks his father was a great man who was going to build a house for them and get him a horse and reintroduce him to the west he once knew.   

Naturally Ben meets the kid and he is determined to kill Ben one way or another.  While at the funeral, he tries to kill Ben with his father's gun.  Thankfully he is stopped and the sheriff takes him to jail.  Ben tries to convince him that maybe it's not the best thing to have a kid fresh out of school, just losing his father be in jail at the moment so he offers to have the boy live at the Ponderosa until he finds himself in a better place.  Sheriff reluctantly agrees.

Todd is not very appreciative and refuses to trust Ben or Hoss (conveniently Adam and Little Joe are absent from this episode) and he refuses to eat and throws his food on the floor in defiance.  Ben still wants to get through to him so he lets it slide.  That evening, Todd slips into Ben's office and finds a pistol.  When Ben comes to check out the noise he hears downstairs, Todd points the gun at him and says he'll kill him.  He then fires the gun THREE TIMES.  The gun was unloaded so Ben's unhurt.  He runs into the night.  Ben again chooses not to chase after him and they would go see the sheriff in the morning.

The kid turns up in Virginia City and tried to buy a gun from  the storekeeper.  Storekeeper refuses to do so, so Todd hit him from behind and steals a pistol and a box of ammo.  He then  goes to Diane's who has a well appointed living space (being a "saloon girl" paid quite well) and offers to hide him for the moment.  She offers to give him $500.00 if he would go to San Francisco and leave Virginia City forever and start over.  He thought she was holding out on him, thinking the money was his fathers'.  She insists the money was hers but wants him to have it.

A gunfighter overhears the conversation and offers to take Todd to SF for the $500.00 and kill Ben.  Eventually, Ben kills the gunfighter and brings the check back to Diane.  Todd has the gun pointed at Ben and assures this time he'll kill Ben for murdering his father.  Diane FINALLY admits the truth to Todd - it wasn't murder but self defense and that Luke was no good.  The money sent every month to pay for his schooling and kept Luke in food and whiskey was also hers.  He didn't have a dime to his name and everyone in town knew it.  Somehow this takes the fight out of Todd and he and Diane bond.  Ben gets the kid off an attempted murder charge and theft charge by saying he was paying for the gun the kid took and gave him one of the Ponderosa horses.  He mentions how he need to spend time with his new "Ma". 

The end.

Ever single time you see Todd try to kill Ben or dig the proverbial hole deeper you just want to put your hand through the screen and slap him!!     It was like the kid had a one track mind - kill Ben - but nothing afterwards!!  Even a Boston schoolboy would have known at that time that murdering a man in cold blood would only bring a noose around his neck!   

Edited May 28, 2023 by magicdog

[Blergh]

2 hours ago, magicdog said:

Got this from the first season of Bonanza:

In the episode, "The Bloodline" (1960) we have Luke Grayson, local drunk and ne'er do well.  He seemed to like picking fights while drunk and one day while at the general store with girlfriend, saloon girl Diane Jordan he tried to pick one with Ben Cartwright.  Luke shoots at Ben twice and Ben gets the drop on him and kills him in self defense.  Out of a sense of guilt and obligation, Ben agrees to pay for the funeral.  To make things worse, Luke's son Todd is coming back to town (having been educated back in Boston all this time) to live with his dad.  He arrives the day of the funeral.

Diane is devoted to Luke, perhaps undeservedly so, as he seemed to take advantage of her feelings for him but rarely returned them.  When she introduces herself to Todd and her relationship to his father, she makes things worse by claiming Ben murdered his father.  Even though there were witnesses to the contrary, she keeps letting Todd believe this.  He also thinks his father was a great man who was going to build a house for them and get him a horse and reintroduce him to the west he once knew.   

Naturally Ben meets the kid and he is determined to kill Ben one way or another.  While at the funeral, he tries to kill Ben with his father's gun.  Thankfully he is stopped and the sheriff takes him to jail.  Ben tries to convince him that maybe it's not the best thing to have a kid fresh out of school, just losing his father be in jail at the moment so he offers to have the boy live at the Ponderosa until he finds himself in a better place.  Sheriff reluctantly agrees.

Todd is not very appreciative and refuses to trust Ben or Hoss (conveniently Adam and Little Joe are absent from this episode) and he refuses to eat and throws his food on the floor in defiance.  Ben still wants to get through to him so he lets it slide.  That evening, Todd slips into Ben's office and finds a pistol.  When Ben comes to check out the noise he hears downstairs, Todd points the gun at him and says he'll kill him.  He then fires the gun THREE TIMES.  The gun was unloaded so Ben's unhurt.  He runs into the night.  Ben again chooses not to chase after him and they would go see the sheriff in the morning.

The kid turns up in Virginia City and tried to buy a gun from  the storekeeper.  Storekeeper refuses to do so, so Todd hit him from behind and steals a pistol and a box of ammo.  He then  goes to Diane's who has a well appointed living space (being a "saloon girl" paid quite well) and offers to hide him for the moment.  She offers to give him $500.00 if he would go to San Francisco and leave Virginia City forever and start over.  He thought she was holding out on him, thinking the money was his fathers'.  She insists the money was hers but wants him to have it.

A gunfighter overhears the conversation and offers to take Todd to SF for the $500.00 and kill Ben.  Eventually, Ben kills the gunfighter and brings the check back to Diane.  Todd has the gun pointed at Ben and assures this time he'll kill Ben for murdering his father.  Diane FINALLY admits the truth to Todd - it wasn't murder but self defense and that Luke was no good.  The money sent every month to pay for his schooling and kept Luke in food and whiskey was also hers.  He didn't have a dime to his name and everyone in town knew it.  Somehow this takes the fight out of Todd and he and Diane bond.  Ben gets the kid off an attempted murder charge and theft charge by saying he was paying for the gun the kid took and gave him one of the Ponderosa horses.  He mentions how he need to spend time with his new "Ma". 

The end.

Ever single time you see Todd try to kill Ben or dig the proverbial hole deeper you just want to put your hand through the screen and slap him!!     It was like the kid had a one track mind - kill Ben - but nothing afterwards!!  Even a Boston schoolboy would have known at that time that murdering a man in cold blood would only bring a noose around his neck!   

Agreed! However, more than one murderer has done so because they saw ZERO possible future for themselves beyond avenging . ..whatever and they often thought since they had no future that if they took out someone else, it would make their hastened end 'worth it'. I agree it doesn't make an iota of sense nor is it remotely justifying any possible MO but not everyone's MOs are for positive or even logical reasons.

[Spartan Girl]

As more time passes, the “Krazy Kripples” episode of South Park makes me angry. It’s not so much the episode itself, it’s why Trey Parker and Matt Stone decided to go ahead and do it. Quoting here:

Quote

According to Matt Stone and Trey Parker, they had the idea to do a Christopher Reeve parody since the previous season but held it off: "For a long time we're like, 'You know what? Maybe that's not cool.'" The two decided to do the parody because they were having trouble coming up with an idea for an episode and Reeve happened to be on Larry King Live that night. After seeing the interview, the two thought to themselves "You know what? Fuck him. He really is taking up this cause of 'Everyone needs to help me out.”

I read this and I think: “Well gee, what have you assholes done to help the disabled community lately other than adding handicapped characters modeled after Looney Tune characters for cheap laughs?!”

Edited June 18, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Bruinsfan]

I was unaware of all this, but now I've gone from vague dislike of the two to not being willing to use a fire extinguisher if either should be burning to death in front of me.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Bruinsfan

[Spartan Girl]

Supposedly, Parker and Stone have done some charities for the disabled community, but that doesn’t absolve them of their shitty take by a long shot. And recent episodes of the show have made it glaringly obviously that they think “both siding” every issue makes them the smartest guys in the room.

[Spartan Girl]

Got some more Urkel complaining to do.

You guys remember the episode where Laura’s boyfriend Ted let everyone think they had sex, and Urkel was the “good guy” for trying to warn her? Yeah, well, his Designated Hero Status doesn’t really hold up when you recall that he’d been trying to sabotage their relationship since Day Damn One*, so Laura’s initial reaction to not believe Steve’s warning (and to finally draw the line that if he keeps up this crap they can’t even be friends anymore) is understandable to say the least. And sure enough, when Laura finds out the truth, Urkel doesn’t take waste any time trying to take advantage of the situation, butting in their breakup conversation like he’s her bodyguard instead of actually being a good friend by respecting her agency in the situation. His first reaction when Laura very kindly thanks him for warning her, his immediate reaction is to propose marriage, ignoring her pointing out that they’re only 15**.

Not to mention this episode revealed he uses Laura’s measurements as his locker combination, which she rightly found creepy.

*Yes, there was that one time that he encouraged Ted to ask her to the Homecoming Dance, but that one good deed was rendered irrelevant because when Laura gave him the first dance to thank him, he immediately took that as a Love Kernel and went right back to stalking her.

**Funny how when Myra wanted to get married when they were in college, he was suddenly concerned that they were too young for that commitment.

[Mabinogia]

On 7/17/2023 at 7:21 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Not to mention this episode revealed he uses Laura’s measurements as his locker combination, which she rightly found creepy.

Eeeew.

While I did watch Family Matters back in the day, I seem to have forgotten most of it. But I do remember how repulsive I always found Urkel. I only really watched it because I loved Telma Hopkins. So while finding out that Urkel used Laura's measurements creeps me out, I'm sadly not surprised. 

[Dr.OO7]

On 7/17/2023 at 7:21 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Not to mention this episode revealed he uses Laura’s measurements as his locker combination, which she rightly found creepy.

It's pure Fridge Horror to wonder how he found that out. There's absolutely no explanation that doesn't make him an obsessed pervert.

On 7/17/2023 at 7:21 AM, Spartan Girl said:

when Laura gave him the first dance to thank him, he immediately took that as a Love Kernel and went right back to stalking her.

I hated the way he'd take the most minutely nice thing she said or did as a sign that she reciprocated his feelings. The poor girl couldn't even say "Thank you" without him declaring "You love me, don't you?" Although sadly, from my own experience and the numerous other stalking stories I've heard, this is unfortunately Truth In Television, which is why Gavin de Becker advises victims to ignore their pursuers as much as possible.

On 7/17/2023 at 7:21 AM, Spartan Girl said:

his immediate reaction is to propose marriage, ignoring her pointing out that they’re only 15

My stalker ex capped off a year of harassment by spending nearly 3 hours trying to browbeat me into marrying him.

Let's see, we're only 19 (me) and 20 (him), have no jobs, no money, nowhere to live, are both still in college, and I broke up with you a year ago and have been telling you to LMTFA ever since. All the makings of a great marriage!

Rational thought and common sense doesn't exist for these people.

[proserpina65]

19 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

But I do remember how repulsive I always found Urkel.

I watched Family Matters when it first started because I loved Reginald VelJohnson.  I stopped watching when Urkel took over every aspect of the show.

[Spartan Girl]

I’d also like to add that the whole reason Urkel overheard that conversation with Ted and his friends was because he hid behind the locker, deliberately eavesdropping for any information that he could use against Ted. You could tell by the look on his face that was exactly what he was thinking.

Ted was an asshole for what he said about Laura, Urkel once again was NOT the good guy in that episode. Not by a long shot.

[Wiendish Fitch]

You know what Simpsons moment has always pissed me off? It's from the early seasons, the one where Lisa asks Bart to hold her giant tomato that she's grown for her science fair project, and Bart throws it at Principal Skinner's butt, splattering the tomato and therefore ruining Lisa's project.

Because Bart sucks. 

Now, Lisa is absolutely, thoroughly pissed (can't say I blame her), and Marge suggests making a new project, like having a hamster run a maze. Lisa, deciding to add some revenge to the equation, makes the project about how a hamster is smarter than Bart. The experiment is successful (Bart is being so decidedly stupid it's impossible to sympathize with him), but Bart catches wind of it, steals Lisa's hamster, and then wins the science fair by putting the hamster in an airplane (the judges are enchanted by how cute it looks), while Lisa ends up with nothing.

That's right, once again, Lisa loses either way, while Bart suffers zero consequences for ruining her science fair project in the first damn place. There's no catharsis, no twist, Lisa gets crapped on because, at the time, everyone just loooooooved Bart. Even if you want to argue that Lisa shouldn't have trusted Bart to hold her science project to begin with, and even if she was being a little too vicious and vindictive... the inciting incident is still Bart's fault! I'm convinced this episode was meant to appease the Lisa-haters and literally no one else. 

I like to think the writers of Daria saw this episode and hated it as much as I did, because they wrote a vaguely similar, but far superior one. Daria decides to film her sister Quinn for her documentary project, with the ulterior motive to show what a ridiculous, shallow ninny Quinn is. Quinn is certainly an easy target, to the point where it's hard not to side with Daria, but when their mom Helen (one of the most unsung TV moms ever) sees footage, she rightly calls Daria out for being petty and even cruel. Then Quinn, in a rare moment of vulnerability, reveals to Daria that she's only obsessed with popularity and fashion because she doesn't feel she's good at anything else. Daria sees the light, modifies the documentary's subject, and not only does she make Quinn look good, she makes herself look good as well. 

So unlike the Simpsons episode, Daria starts out just being mean to her sibling, realizes this isn't the way, makes things right, and still manages to triumph. No one walks away with egg on their face, and it still manages to be effective and funny. 

Why couldn't the episode of The Simpsons have Lisa, at the last minute, change her mind about her science experiment and go back to the hamster running the maze, but keeping the experiment journal and looking at the evidence of Bart's stupidity for her own enjoyment? Something so she could have gotten her own back?

Edited July 20, 2023 by Wiendish Fitch

[Annber03]

I haven't seen the "Simpsons" episode you mention, but oh, god, I remember that 'Daria" one, and yeah, that was a good episode. I need to do a "Daria" rewatch at some point. 

Back to the topic, though, wow, yeah, based off your description of that "Simpsons" episode, that does sound incredibly frustrating. I like your idea on how they could've dealt with that. 

[kathyk24]

1 hour ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

You know what Simpsons moment has always pissed me off? It's from the early seasons, the one where Lisa asks Bart to hold her giant tomato that she's grown for her science fair project, and Bart throws it at Principal Skinner's butt, splattering the tomato and therefore ruining Lisa's project.

Because Bart sucks. 

Now, Lisa is absolutely, thoroughly pissed (can't say I blame her), and Marge suggests making a new project, like having a hamster run a maze. Lisa, deciding to add some revenge to the equation, makes the project about how a hamster is smarter than Bart. The experiment is successful (Bart is being so decidedly stupid it's impossible to sympathize with him), but Bart catches wind of it, steals Lisa's hamster, and then wins the science fair by putting the hamster in an airplane (the judges are enchanted by how cute it looks), while Lisa ends up with nothing.

That's right, once again, Lisa loses either way, while Bart suffers zero consequences for ruining her science fair project in the first damn place. There's no catharsis, no twist, Lisa gets crapped on because, at the time, everyone just loooooooved Bart. Even if you want to argue that Lisa shouldn't have trusted Bart to hold her science project to begin with, and even if she was being a little too vicious and vindictive... the inciting incident is still Bart's fault! I'm convinced this episode was meant to appease the Lisa-haters and literally no one else. 

I like to think the writers of Daria saw this episode and hated it as much as I did, because they wrote a vaguely similar, but far superior one. Daria decides to film her sister Quinn for her documentary project, with the ulterior motive to show what a ridiculous, shallow ninny Quinn is. Quinn is certainly an easy target, to the point where it's hard not to side with Daria, but when their mom Helen (one of the most unsung TV moms ever) sees footage, she rightly calls Daria out for being petty and even cruel. Then Quinn, in a rare moment of vulnerability, reveals to Daria that she's only obsessed with popularity and fashion because she doesn't feel she's good at anything else. Daria sees the light, modifies the documentary's subject, and not only does she make Quinn look good, she makes herself look good as well. 

So unlike the Simpsons episode, Daria starts out just being mean to her sibling, realizes this isn't the way, makes things right, and still manages to triumph. No one walks away with egg on their face, and it still manages to be effective and funny. 

Why couldn't the episode of The Simpsons have Lisa, at the last minute, change her mind about her science experiment and go back to the hamster running the maze, but keeping the experiment journal and looking at the evidence of Bart's stupidity for her own enjoyment? Something so she could have gotten her own back?

My Hell No Daria moment is when Daria fell for Jane's boyfriend. No way Daria would let any guy ruin her friendship with Jane. I thought Quinn was a mean girl rather than Daria. She strings three boys along and pretends that Daria isn't her sister. I loved when Daria called out her parents for rewarding Quinn for good grades while she got nothing for being smart.

[Spartan Girl]

On 7/19/2023 at 11:38 PM, Wiendish Fitch said:

That's right, once again, Lisa loses either way, while Bart suffers zero consequences for ruining her science fair project in the first damn place. There's no catharsis, no twist, Lisa gets crapped on because, at the time, everyone just loooooooved Bart. Even if you want to argue that Lisa shouldn't have trusted Bart to hold her science project to begin with, and even if she was being a little too vicious and vindictive... the inciting incident is still Bart's fault! I'm convinced this episode was meant to appease the Lisa-haters and literally no one else. 

I felt the same way about the episode where Lisa finally put a restraining order on Bart. The Lisa haters went apeshit on that one: “Bart’s done tons of nice things for Lisa, why doesn’t she remember any of that?” Ugh.

Speaking of Simpsons characters that never get any consequences for their actions, this past season had Marge: 1) waste all their life savings on a stupid exercise bike class because she lusted after the instructor even when Homer pointed out that she was getting sucked into a cult, 2) had her emotional affair with Jacques exposed, 3) blabbed all about Homer to a pop star out to get him and basically humiliated him with a bad boyfriend video filled with personal information about him that she had no business telling ANYONE, and 4) was revealed to have a secret back account she hid from Homer.

Yet is Marge called out on consequences for any of this shit? NOPE. The end result is always the same: everyone loves Marge and every wrong thing she does is automatically forgiven without question because being married to Homer makes her a martyr.

Please just cancel this shitty show!

Edited July 23, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Danielg342]

I was a teen at the time of Steve Urkel, Boy Meets World and many other iconic '90s and 2000s "coming of age" teen comedies were coming out. Maybe it's just my own memory playing tricks with me, but I seem to recall that period as being a special kind of period where some of the worst traits of toxic masculinity were not just accepted, they were championed.

At the time, I rooted for Urkel, Cory and many of the other dimwitted male protagonists who fumbled their way trying to win the heart of the one they loved probably because I was also fumbling along, trying desperately to (what I thought) was to win the heart of a girl I loved (really, I just think I wanted sex. Which is not bad in of itself- I was just deluding myself about what I really wanted).

Looking back, I'm not sure I would have rooted for those characters if I knew what I know now (well, maybe I'd still root for Cory Matthews...he at least had a heart and seemed to appreciate what he did to others, unlike his dimwitted older brother). Sure, maybe back then the writers thought they were crafting relatable characters whose farcical struggles I'm supposed to laugh at because I- on a level- have felt many of those same struggles, but some of the things the writers were asking me to accept I doubt I could accept now.

I forget what show it was (maybe the short-lived Daddio), but I remember a scene where a teen boy is asking an older man (I presume it was his dad, but I don't recall exactly what it was) about what to do around girls, because he was about to go on a date with a girl he liked. The key part of the advice imparted on this boy was "find an excuse to touch her", like pretending she's got a spot on her shirt sleeve or something.

Lo and behold, the boy pulls off the trick. I don't remember if he was successful but I don't recall the girl being overtly disturbed by it.

Yeah, in hindsight that's just a writer lampooning some of those weird hormonal moments that happen with boys (which girls experience too but Hollywood never seems to acknowledge that). Besides, I'm sure every guy has had a moment or ten where they're around someone they like and want you-know-what out of them but have no idea how to get there.

Still, is it really a good idea to tell a teenage boy to "find an excuse" to touch a girl?

It was all part and parcel to the mood of the era, one that still (kind of) lives on to this day- and that's the idea that Hollywood likes to promote the idea that a man who isn't getting sex from an attractive woman is somehow a failure.

It's disgusting to think about it now, but imagine what it's like being a teenage boy growing up who is being fed this garbage (who also had a dad who didn't help me at all in this regard, which I won't get into).

Since I wasn't exactly very successful in dating, it was hard not to internalize some of that crap. Some of that stuff still affects me today.

It makes me wish Hollywood would do a better job promoting that:

• It's OK for men and women to be friends, and just friends without any expectation of anything more
• You're not a failure if you're not getting laid right now. Heck, in fact, having a relationship with the wrong person is arguably worse than not having one at all.

Getting this back to Urkel and the other dimwits...yeah, maybe it wouldn't be such a great story if Urkel didn't ultimately get Laura in the end. That said, he did arguably have a better love interest for him (Myra) and Sheldon Cooper showed that sometimes the woman you really want isn't always the one that's conventionally attractive.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

Getting this back to Urkel and the other dimwits...yeah, maybe it wouldn't be such a great story if Urkel didn't ultimately get Laura in the end.

I don’t know. Most people today think Urkel getting Laura was a shit ending.

Moving on, there was a recent episode of The Proud Family that really bothered me, where the girls turn on Zoey because she gets asked out by a cute teen actor they liked because they heard he only dates white girls (and Zoey is the token white girl of the group). The show wants us the sympathize with Penny and the girls because of the obvious colorism…but instead of being angry at the guy, they all just shut out Zoey, and it isn’t until they’ve acted like the complete worst that they finally tell Zoey about the guy’s preferences, she assumes they’re just jealous because they’ve been so awful to her.

Penny, to her credit, is the one that tries to keep the peace, but she doesn’t exactly stick up for Zoey either, which Zoey is understandably hurt about. Because yeah, Zoey didn’t actually do anything wrong. She didn’t even know about the rumor yet. Not to mention the fact that Penny and Dijonay already HAVE great boyfriends, so for them to get bent out of shape over some colorist celebrity is just stupid.

Everything eventually works out: Zoey dumps the guy when she finds out the rumor is true because she loves her friends and doesn’t want to hurt them—despite the fact that they didn’t extend her the same courtesy. But what really bugs me is that Zoey winds up having to settle for the nerdy guy who was stalking pursuing her, and we’re supposed to think that’s okay all because he at least like her for her mind and not her skin color. Because all nerds belong together right?

UGH.

I get that the show wanted to tackle colorism and I applaud them for that, I just think it could have been done better.

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

But what really bugs me is that Zoey winds up having to settle for the nerdy guy who was stalking pursuing her, and we’re supposed to think that’s okay all because he at least like her for her mind and not her skin color. Because all nerds belong together right?

I never saw The Proud Family (cartoons are just not my thing) but just from reading your synopsis I was fine with the concept up till the part I quoted. I think they were trying to show how overwhelmingly society is cruel to people of color through no fault of the person of colors actions, the way Zoey's friends were cruel to her through no fault of her own, only because of her skin color, which is a good thing to highlight to people, and a way to flip the script a bit to drive the point to people who don't generally experiences it. HOWEVER...

why couldn't Zoey just be fine on her own. I wish entertainment would stop perpetuating the idea that we all need to be paired off. Worse off, it almost sounds like a "stay with your own kind" (nerds should date nerds) sort of message which is harmful, doubled down with the "if a guy likes a girl enough, she will break down and like him back" downright dangerous message. Why to screw up what could have been a really strong message there show. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

4 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

 doubled down with the "if a guy likes a girl enough, she will break down and like him back" downright dangerous message. Why to screw up what could have been a really strong message there show. 

Well.....



There's some argument that this has been going on since Pride & Prejudice, that Elizabeth and Darcy are ultimately seen as romantic because he cleans up his act and stops being a tool, and yet he insults the hell out of her with his first proposal, acts like he'd be doing her "such a favor" because she's boring and her family is awful but by gosh he'll marry her anyway. But we'll stick to television, so.

It's all part of the belief that "the love of a good woman" is enough to make a man straighten up and be the adult partner she needs. Bonus points if he's hot (like Darcy, like Spike, like whoever else) although that just underlines that rotten behavior will be overlooked if it comes wrapped in a nice-looking package, at least where the people consuming this kind of media can be concerned. Steve Urkel is the definite outlier, as he was an obvious geek with an annoying personality, but no conventional good looks to balance out the creep factor, much less over-ride it.

I have always thought that Xander Harris, also from BTVS, gets so much dislike based just as much on his perceived attractiveness as on anything he ever did or said. I probably couldn't articulate it that way when I was younger and the show was still on the air, but it's telling that it's Spike who gets to be the Romantic Hero who cuddles with the woman he assaulted while claiming to love her, after the Buffybot and after the stalking and after "out for a walk, bitch", and it's all written off because he has a nice set of cheekbones. Barf.

[Spartan Girl]

36 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I have always thought that Xander Harris, also from BTVS, gets so much dislike based just as much on his perceived attractiveness as on anything he ever did or said. I probably couldn't articulate it that way when I was younger and the show was still on the air, but it's telling that it's Spike who gets to be the Romantic Hero who cuddles with the woman he assaulted while claiming to love her, after the Buffybot and after the stalking and after "out for a walk, bitch", and it's all written off because he has a nice set of cheekbones. Barf.

I didn’t care that Xander wasn’t conventionally attractive, it was his behavior that made him physically repulsive to me. But you’re probably right that Spike’s attractiveness gave him a pass since tons of shows have used the hot bad boy trope. All I have to do is think of everyone going gaga over Zemo and his stupid dancing in Falcon and the Winter Soldier *barf*

For what it’s worth, I hate Spike and Xander equally and had the show got a Whedon-free reboot today, I’d like to think Buffy would tell both of them to go fuck themselves.

Yeah, yeah Xander wasn’t a murderer, but that’s a pretty low bar for decency.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Danielg342]

7 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I don’t know. Most people today think Urkel getting Laura was a shit ending.

I'm thinking more about what the intention of the writers may have been then. Generally, in Hollywood, if you've got a male lead and a female lead in a romantic story, it's a given that- by the end of the story- they'll be paired up. Urkel was at least intended to be portrayed sympathetically, and I'm sure the writers wanted us to root for Urkel and Laura to get together. 

3 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

It's all part of the belief that "the love of a good woman" is enough to make a man straighten up and be the adult partner she needs.

Women get this treatment too by Hollywood. In their case, it's less about a "bad girl becoming good because of love" and more about "the love of a good man fixing the mess of her life".

See, in Hollywood, while men can dig themselves out of their proverbial hole by finding the right job or discovering their passion, women can only dig themselves out of their hole if a good man shows up in their lives and, through love, shows them how to get out of their problems. It doesn't matter if the woman shows signs of clinical depression- no matter what her problem may be, "the love of a good man" is all she needs.

I can't think of anything more counter to reality than that.

It's not to say that people who have significant life issues aren't worthy of love, because they are, like we all are.

It's just that, by Hollywood perpetuating this myth, you'll find people who think if they just had "someone to love" all their problems will be fixed. You'll also get the obverse, where suitors will argue "if we fall in love, I can fix you" when, in truth, the only ones who can fix someone- in several cases- are trained professionals.

I dated someone who was bipolar. It wasn't fun. There was no amount of "the power of love" that would help her out. I soon learned that I was in way over my head. It made me realize that I should be leery about dating those kinds of women because, no matter how hard I try, there will only be so much that I can do.

Love can make us all stronger and help fix a lot of things, but don't overestimate its power.

[Spartan Girl]

I didn’t think an MCU show could piss me off more than Falcon and the Winter Soldier, but congratu-fucking-lation, Secret Invasion, you did it! Talos and Maria Hill were just killed off to contribute to Fury’s angst and to have G’iah transform into another all-powerful Mary Sue Super Skrull…and between Fury being an idiot for most of the show and Rhodey apparently might have been replaced by a Skrull since Civil War**, it’s more proof that in addition to screwing over their female characters on a regular basis, MCU can’t do right by most of their Black characters unless they’re in Wakanda!

**Yeah apparently the showrunners have admitted they “aren’t really sure” when Rhodey was replaced, meaning they don’t have an actual well-thought plan for any of this, and they’re literally making up shit as they go along. Fuck them.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[katie9918]

7 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

**Yeah apparently the showrunners have admitted they “aren’t really sure” when Rhodey was replaced, meaning they don’t have an actual well-thought plan for any of this, and they’re literally making up shit as they go along. Fuck them.

I heavily disapprove of this, but this could explain why he greeted Team Cap in Infinity War with anything other than bullets to their heads.

[MadyGirl1987]

1 hour ago, katie9918 said:

I heavily disapprove of this, but this could explain why he greeted Team Cap in Infinity War with anything other than bullets to their heads.

I don't believe for a second the real Rhodey would do that given the fact they were trying to save half of all life in the universe. He might not have been friendly with them, but he would not let personal issues get in the way of looking at what was at stake and when you consider he would have known Tony was up in space and that Team Cap was Earth's best hope.

Edited July 31, 2023 by MadyGirl1987

[JustHereForFood]

On 7/23/2023 at 7:30 PM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

It's all part of the belief that "the love of a good woman" is enough to make a man straighten up and be the adult partner she needs. 

I used to love this trope when I was a stupid young teenager (Cole and Phoebe from Charmed were my OTP), now it makes me throw up in my mouth. 

 

[Spartan Girl]

Bart gleefully trying to sabotage Lisa’s summer friendship in The Simpsons episode “Summer of 4’2” is a low moment even for him. His whole justification for doing it was that Lisa only got those friends by acting like him, meaning that they “his friends by right” was pure bullshit: when he tried to win them over with his skateboard stunts, they rightly read him as an attention whore and dissed him. Plus, Lisa wasn’t “acting” like Bart, she was just acting like what she thought was a regular “I don’t care about school” kid and just borrowed a few of his catchphrases.

And even after he’s exposed her as a nerd and he’s unnerved by just how much he’s pissed her off when she calls him out as a rotten jealous sneak and almost pours honey in his eyes, he’s STILL got to be a little jerk and tries to torture her more at the carnival. It wasn’t until he knocks her out of the go-cart and she walks away clearly done with him, that he FINALLY realizes he was an asshole. But since Lisa’s friends already liked her for who she was, everything is fine.

Granted, getting her yearbook signed by all of them was a nice gesture, but I would have preferred him to actually apologize and own up to being an asshole. Which he did not.

[magicdog]

On to a vintage of anger inducement:

On Hazel, in the episode, Just Me, Harold and the Unisphere (1964)

Hazel enters a contest in which the first prize is two tickets to the World's Fair (which at the time was being held in Flushing Meadow, Queens, NY).  Hazel is a natural shoe in to win, but of course, there's a complication:  her competitor is the mother of a friend of Harold's (the son of Hazel's employers and a sort of grandson to her) and of course she had a sob story. She's a widow and really needs to win to make her and her son's dreams come true.  In her words, she hopes that winning the contest and going to the fair will help him forget about his father's passing 6 months earlier.  Being the good sport, Hazel feels badly and sabotages herself to let her competitor win.

ARRGH!

OK, so she has a sob story.  Forget his father's death?  That won't happen.  Not that maybe the boy wouldn't have a thrill after dealing with a big loss like that, but ultimately, you still wake up knowing that your loved one is still gone and nothing will ever change that.   Purposely lose to every person you need to compete against just because they're possibly in a worse spot than you?  What does that teach us?  Nothing wrong with having empathy and if you're able, to help them in another way, but one shouldn't sabotage one's own efforts either.  

Or is it me being heartless and cynical?

Of course the episode ends with her employer telling her and the family that he was taking them all to the World's Fair as a family.

[Mabinogia]

IDK, I hate when reality competitions ask "why do you need this money/to win this?" and the person comes out with some story about living in a cardboard box, or a dying parent or what not, because that is NOT relevant. 

In Hazel's case though, how badly did she want to go to the World's Fair? Was this something she really wanted?  If it was something she really wanted, then yeah, she shouldn't have to give that up.

If you want to get real cynical, for a brief moment I thought, and imagine if Hazel runs into the mother and child at the fair, and the "dead" father walks over with corn dogs!

As for forget the fathers death. I'm hoping she meant, like for a few hours he could feel like a normal, happy kid again and get a break from being the kid who lost his father. Otherwise, geez, how bad a dad was he that he'd be that easy to forget? lol

[magicdog]

6 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

If you want to get real cynical, for a brief moment I thought, and imagine if Hazel runs into the mother and child at the fair, and the "dead" father walks over with corn dogs!

I LOVE THIS!  Yes, I have a weird sense of humor.  I'm now imagining people who compete in various contests and give a sob story expecting their competitors to purposely lose to her out of guilt!!

 

6 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

As for forget the fathers death. I'm hoping she meant, like for a few hours he could feel like a normal, happy kid again and get a break from being the kid who lost his father. Otherwise, geez, how bad a dad was he that he'd be that easy to forget? lol

Sure, I knew he wouldn't literally forget him (the boy looked about 10 or so and I imagine he has a strong image of Dad in his mind as well as the relationship he would have had), just that that's how the mother put it.  If anything (and I've been in this situation myself, as many of us have) he would have been saying things like, "Dad would have loved to see this!", etc. . 

 

Quote

In Hazel's case though, how badly did she want to go to the World's Fair? Was this something she really wanted?  If it was something she really wanted, then yeah, she shouldn't have to give that up.

My parents were at that fair (in fact, my father worked in construction at that time and built many of the pavillions).  It was considered the highlight of a lifetime to go.  The last time the fair was held in NY was 1939 (My grandparents went to that one, but my dad was still a baby!).  Anyone who could afford to travel and get admission would have wanted to see what was there as for many it was a once in a lifetime experience.  I think Hazel wanted to go because Harold wanted to go.  Of course Harold's father could have just agreed to make it a family outing from the outset.

Edited August 19, 2023 by magicdog

[Mabinogia]

27 minutes ago, magicdog said:

(in fact, my father worked in construction at that time and built many of the pavillions).

That is so cool!

 

[Egg McMuffin]

On 8/19/2023 at 10:52 AM, Mabinogia said:

IDK, I hate when reality competitions ask "why do you need this money/to win this?" and the person comes out with some story about living in a cardboard box, or a dying parent or what not, because that is NOT relevant. 

In Hazel's case though, how badly did she want to go to the World's Fair? Was this something she really wanted?  If it was something she really wanted, then yeah, she shouldn't have to give that up.

If you want to get real cynical, for a brief moment I thought, and imagine if Hazel runs into the mother and child at the fair, and the "dead" father walks over with corn dogs!

As for forget the fathers death. I'm hoping she meant, like for a few hours he could feel like a normal, happy kid again and get a break from being the kid who lost his father. Otherwise, geez, how bad a dad was he that he'd be that easy to forget? lol

Hazel is a bit of a Mary Sue. She’s pretty much good at everything she tries. And she’s selfless to a fault.

[meep.meep]

On 8/19/2023 at 2:38 PM, magicdog said:

I LOVE THIS!  Yes, I have a weird sense of humor.  I'm now imagining people who compete in various contests and give a sob story expecting their competitors to purposely lose to her out of guilt!!

 

This was a show in the 50's called Queen for a Day.  These downtrodden ladies would come in and tell their sad tales.  At the end, the amount of audience applause would determine the winner who would get a new refrigerator or washing machine.  It's a bizarre slice of Americana that you'll never forget.