Confirmation (HBO)

[revbfc]

If there isn't a scene of Anita Hill bursting into George HW Bush's office unannounced, I'll be disappointed.

[revbfc]

Kinnear is killing it as Biden. Too much hair, but great overall.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just finished watching, and I had hoped they would show the actual people at the end, and they did.

This movie brought everything back for me: the anger, disgust, rage. Everything. And *sniff* Joe Biden, feet of clay. I will forever wonder why he grilled Anita like he did. And why Kennedy was the only one to speak up at the end, and no one else.

Kerry was great. Especially during the scenes where Kinnear's Biden is asking her to repeat, in detail, everything. I swear, I saw Kerry, but could hear and "see" in my mind, the real Anita.

And why did the real life Supporters of Thomas get aired at the end, and that woman with the braces can just Fuck off, with her E tu, Anita bullshit, and how come we didn't get to see the real life supporters of Anita?

I wanted to throw all those MEN in a pit with victims of sexual harrassment and actually have to defend their words and actions.

If I do have a criticism, it's the attempt to portray Thomas as someone noble. Blech. Just blech.

And wow, was Reagan a jack ass regarding Bjork. Well, he didn't get confirmed now, did he? Thank goodness for some favors, I guess.

And I won't lie. I cried at the end, when Anita was crying after reading that first letter. And I could feel a huge smile when I saw the real Thurgood Marshall. I loved that man. I still remember the press conference when he retired.

Will definitely rewatch this.

Edited April 17, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[Sheenieb]

 

Kerry was great. Especially during the scenes where Kinnear's Biden is asking her to repeat, in detail, everything. I swear, I saw Kerry, but could hear and "see" in my mind, the real Anita.

Yes, I was a child when all of this happened, but I watched the Anita Hill documentary a few months ago, and Kerry had Anita's vocal inflection down.

 

 

If I do have a criticism, it's the attempt to portray Thomas as someone noble. Blech. Just blech.

 

I think that was solely through the awesomeness that is Wendell Pierce. Clarence Thomas wishes he had that much depth.

 

I thought the movie was all right. It was basically the dramatization of the documentary. I'm a little disappointed that they didn't delve deeper, but the performances were outstanding. I didn't get one trace of Olivia Pope.

 

I remember there was a running joke about how Ted Kennedy was mum during the hearing, so Treat Williams definitely got an easy payday. He probably only had to show up for two days of work.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Sheenieb

[GHScorpiosRule]

I remember there was a running joke about how Ted Kennedy was mum during the hearing, so Treat Williams definitely got an easy payday. He probably only had to show up for two days of work.

 

Speaking of which, I thought of another criticism: the lack of the Northeast accent from Ted Kennedy. Didn't hear it at all. Bad Treat! Because the real Ted Kennedy still had that distinct accent.

Edited April 17, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[maraleia]

Everyone should go read pages 171-177 in Gloria Steinem's book My Life on the Road, She lays out how this Clarence Thomas SCOTUS thing could've been avoided and its a doozy. I loved so much about this movie and remember it like it was yesterday. I was 20 when this happened and it make me so ragey I could spit.

Edited April 17, 2016 by maraleia

[GHScorpiosRule]

Everyone should go read pages 174-177 in Gloria Steinem's book My Life on the Road, She lays out how this Clarence Thomas SCOTUS thing could've been avoided and its a doozy. I loved so much about this movie and remember it like it was yesterday. I was 20 when this happened and it make me so ragey I could spit.

 

I really need to get that book.  I recently watched In My Words on HBO and it was riveting.  What can I say? Gloria is also my hero! 

 

And maraleia, I was 21 when this all went down, and it was ALL any of us on campus could talk about. Even in our classes. And in between, I'd watch the "hearings." 

Edited April 17, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[WendyCR72]

I was 19 in 1991 and also a college freshman and this was wall to wall. Still remember it. As nasty as it is, I still remember the detail given about a Coke can and pubic hair. Just gross.

[GHScorpiosRule]

What I also remember was my college holding a...meeting? I'm blanking on the term for it, but it was to discuss sexual harrassment. And who did they have on the panel of three? ALL MEN. Yep. That guaranteed me NOT to go, even if it was free.

 

And the pubic hair on his coke can and the pornography was all people could focus on. Yuck.  

[maraleia]

I really to get that book.  I recently watched In My Words on HBO and it was riveting.  What can I say? Gloria is also my hero! 

 

And maraleia, I was 21 when this all went down, and it was ALL any of us on campus could talk about. Even in our classes. And in between, I'd watch the "hearings." 

I'm serious the way Gloria lays it all out so many things would be different if a certain event hadn't happened, It's really hard to explain here though.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm serious the way Gloria lays it all out so many things would be different if a certain event hadn't happened, It's really hard to explain here though.

 

Okay, it's late. And I know I'm going to feel like an idiot when you tell me, but what event?  Gloria always cuts out the bullshit and lays everything out so simply. I really wish she'd come to my end of the woods. I really, really want to meet her.

[maraleia]

 

Okay, it's late. And I know I'm going to feel like an idiot when you tell me, but what event?  Gloria always cuts out the bullshit and lays everything out so simply. I really wish she'd come to my end of the woods. I really, really want to meet her.

I've met her and she is so gracious and kind. The list has to do with voting access and rights.

If Harriet Woods hadn't been defeated by less than 2 percent of the votes in Missouri, Danforth wouldn't have been a US Senator. (she ran out of money two weeks prior to the election and couldn't counter the attacks from Danforth's camp.)

If Danforth didn't win he wouldn't have brought Clarence Thomas with him to DC...et. al.

There are seven other points and it ends with

Without Clarence Thomas to supply that one vote majority , the Supreme Court might not have ruled that corporations are people with a right to unlimited political spending

Edited April 17, 2016 by maraleia

[Shriekingeel]

You have to love that Hollywood is so outraged over Clarence Thomas allegedly making crude sexual propositions to Anita Hill in the workplace. How dare he!

Hello! This is HOLLYWOOD, where sexual favors in return for work, aka the casting couch, are the coin of the realm. In Hollywood, crude sexual propositions in the workplace are universally accepted behaviors.

The casting couch in Hollywood

[maraleia]

You have to love that Hollywood is so outraged over Clarence Thomas allegedly making crude sexual propositions to Anita Hill in the workplace. How dare he!

Hello! This is HOLLYWOOD, where sexual favors in return for work, aka the casting couch, are the coin of the realm. In Hollywood, crude sexual propositions in the workplace are universally accepted behaviors.

The casting couch in Hollywood

For the most part this doesn't exist anymore. If you look at the credits for any TV show and movie casting directors are mostly women.

[childeroland]

You have to love that Hollywood is so outraged over Clarence Thomas allegedly making crude sexual propositions to Anita Hill in the workplace. How dare he!

Hello! This is HOLLYWOOD, where sexual favors in return for work, aka the casting couch, are the coin of the realm. In Hollywood, crude sexual propositions in the workplace are universally accepted behaviors. The casting couch in Hollywood

One thing doesn't make the other okay.

[junemeatcleaver]

 

You have to love that Hollywood is so outraged over Clarence Thomas allegedly making crude sexual propositions to Anita Hill in the workplace. How dare he!

 

And that means Anita Hill's story shouldn't be told? 

 

Maybe the conservative media should make their own pro-Clarence Thomas movie if they want his "truth" out there so bad.

[revbfc]

You have to love that Hollywood is so outraged over Clarence Thomas allegedly making crude sexual propositions to Anita Hill in the workplace. How dare he!

Hello! This is HOLLYWOOD, where sexual favors in return for work, aka the casting couch, are the coin of the realm. In Hollywood, crude sexual propositions in the workplace are universally accepted behaviors.

The casting couch in Hollywood

I get your point, but the entertainment industry is not monolithic, and deriding this production for historical (and current) sins of others is unfair. Now if the filmmakers of Confirmation were casting couch predators, that'd be a different story.

I have to agree with others who have found that Wendell Pierce's Clarence Thomas was WAY more sympathetic than the real man. He really is that good.

Edited April 17, 2016 by revbfc

[BoogieBurns]

I only knew of this hearing from a 4 minute segment on I Love the 90's. So, I was basically going into this blind. Dang, Anita makes me such a proud feminist. Clarence Thomas is the worst. Great movie! 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I do have a confession. But before you side-eye me, let me say in my defense, I blame my local radio news station. Because that's how they reported it, and by the time I got home that night, I knew the truth.

 

When I first heard Anita's name, my first thought was: why did she wait so long to come forward? Now, mind you, I didn't like Thomas. I wasn't happy with Bush's nominating him.

 

Then, just like in the movie, I saw where she said that the press came to her.  That she didn't decide to come forward at the 11th hour.

 

So, that's my shame.  

 

Topic?

 

I'd like to hear from Angela-the other witness who was kept waiting all day and a half, only to have to sign that 'mutual consent' that Hart brought to her.

 

Guess I'll be going down this rabbit hole starting tomorrow!

[revbfc]

I do have a confession. But before you side-eye me, let me say in my defense, I blame my local radio news station. Because that's how they reported it, and by the time I got home that night, I knew the truth.

When I first heard Anita's name, my first thought was: why did she wait so long to come forward? Now, mind you, I didn't like Thomas. I wasn't happy with Bush's nominating him.

Then, just like in the movie, I saw where she said that the press came to her. That she didn't decide to come forward at the 11th hour.

So, that's my shame.

Topic?

I'd like to hear from Angela-the other witness who was kept waiting all day and a half, only to have to sign that 'mutual consent' that Hart brought to her.

Guess I'll be going down this rabbit hole starting tomorrow!

There's no shame in being skeptical about things at first. I understand how that particular question feeds into victim-blaming (and worse), but asking questions in our society is never a bad thing unless one is uninterested in answers.

[GHScorpiosRule]

One of the things from the movie that had me raising an eyebrow, was Thomas's contention how his private life should remain private, just like it did for all the senators on the committee.  And I don't know if it was a dramatic license thing or what, but what came to my mind was Gary Hart.  Gary Hart, who seemed to be the favored Democrat for the '88 election, when that whole Donna Rice thing imploded, just like his political career did.

 

So, what the fuck was he talking about. And that they kowtowed to him, giving into all his demands. Disgusting.

 

Of course these days, with social media running amok, I can't imagine anything remaining private.

 

But yeah, Wendell Pierce--you are that good, so couldn't you have shown us some of the sleazy aspects of the real life Thomas? I know you can do it!

 

I'm so watching this again!

[Joimiaroxeu]

Kerry had Anita's vocal inflection down.

She sure did and it was almost jarring to hear when I'm so used to the way she talks on Scandal. It's too bad that the actors in American Crime Story (the OJ trial) will probably sweep the Emmys because I wouldn't be surprised if Kerry gets nominated. (Maybe TV movies will be in different category than mini-series?)

[EdnasEdibles]

I do have a confession. But before you side-eye me, let me say in my defense, I blame my local radio news station. Because that's how they reported it, and by the time I got home that night, I knew the truth.

 

When I first heard Anita's name, my first thought was: why did she wait so long to come forward? Now, mind you, I didn't like Thomas. I wasn't happy with Bush's nominating him.

 

Then, just like in the movie, I saw where she said that the press came to her.  That she didn't decide to come forward at the 11th hour.

 

So, that's my shame.  

 

Topic?

 

I'd like to hear from Angela-the other witness who was kept waiting all day and a half, only to have to sign that 'mutual consent' that Hart brought to her.

 

Guess I'll be going down this rabbit hole starting tomorrow!

 

 

I was a child when this happened but I remember in my childhood stupidity thinking she'd lied because why would you wait so long? And why would you work with him again?

 

Now that I'm 40 and have been working for 20 years, I get it.  I totally get it. There are some battles not worth fighting because you won't win. So I understand what you're saying.  Watching the movie was also educational in learning how she came to testify.

 

Also, did anyone else remember this?  http://gawker.com/5668293/clarence-thomas-wife-calls-anita-hill-for-an-apology

 

Virginia Thomas drunk dialed Anita Hill a few years ago to demand an apology.  

[kassa]

Fun (awful) fact. Sen. Danforth was an ordained Episcopal priest. Still is, presumably, unless he's dead.

Gary Hart WAS enjoying the benefit of the good old boys' private-stuff-stays-private code. There were rumors of the tabloid variety, but no followup in the mainstream press. Then he got cocky and INVITED the press to try to find any such dirt. Dared them, as if there were nothing to find.

That move alone showed he was unfit for office.

Boy, do I miss Tim Russert.

Edited April 19, 2016 by kassa

[GHScorpiosRule]

Fun (awful) fact. Sen. Danforth was an ordained Episcopal priest. Still is, presumably, unless he's dead.

Gary Hart WAS enjoying the benefit of the good old boys' private-stuff-stays-private code. There were rumors of the tabloid variety, but no followup in the mainstream press. Then he got cocky and INVITED the press to try to find any such dirt. Dared them, as if there were nothing to find.

That move alone showed he was unfit for office.

Boy, do I miss Tim Russert.

 

You're right. I forgot about that part. But they didn't leave him alone when the press did find the dirt. I think that the point I was trying to make.

 

Anyhoo, one of the things I loved about this was the use of the real news footage, with the real news anchors and reporters.  *sniff* Peter Jennings! I miss him.  And Tim Russert.

 

I'm confused on thing, though.  Was Thomas married before? Because Jamal did not look like he was 9 or 10 years old.  Anita had stated that Thomas wasn't married back when he first started harassing her. I'm assuming he married his current wife after all of that went down.  And that they don't have any children together, since they weren't shown in the movie.

 

As for Emmys, wouldn't this fall under 'movie' or 'special' and American Crime Story under mini-series? Or are both categories lumped together?

[BooBear]

Now that I'm 40 and have been working for 20 years, I get it.  I totally get it. There are some battles not worth fighting because you won't win. So I understand what you're saying.  Watching the movie was also educational in learning how she came to testify.

 

I just saw this and I didn't think it was a great movie. Too rushed and Treat didn't even have an accent.

 

But, I think tonight I need to compose a letter of apology to Professor Hill. I was 20 when this happened and I didn't believe her. She was very credible but I just presumed she must have made a mistake. At 40 - Wow was I wrong.  I also couldn't understand how people could be so fervently in Thomas' corner if he was a sexual harasser. But then I worked with a boss who had this scary ability to be loved and respected by the world while also able to stop on a dime and very subtly go after me (and selected people that for various reasons he thought he could get away with poor behavior)  Even though I try to stay away, I simply have no choice but to have interactions with him.   I think the reality is that sexual harassment has gone down but the same behaviors come out in other ways, such as bullying.  The bad apples have just learned to navigate the rules.

 

I have to say I did learn from this movie that Senator Danforth was wayyy too invested in defending Thomas. I had no idea.

 

It kind of frustrates me that anyone could be on the USSC with this kind of a credible allegation made. That is such a prestigious position and there are so many people who could do a better job and not sexually harass people.

[Medicine Crow]

I just saw this and I didn't think it was a great movie. Too rushed and Treat didn't even have an accent.

 

But, I think tonight I need to compose a letter of apology to Professor Hill. I was 20 when this happened and I didn't believe her. She was very credible but I just presumed she must have made a mistake. At 40 - Wow was I wrong.  I also couldn't understand how people could be so fervently in Thomas' corner if he was a sexual harasser. But then I worked with a boss who had this scary ability to be loved and respected by the world while also able to stop on a dime and very subtly go after me (and selected people that for various reasons he thought he could get away with poor behavior)  Even though I try to stay away, I simply have no choice but to have interactions with him.   I think the reality is that sexual harassment has gone down but the same behaviors come out in other ways, such as bullying.  The bad apples have just learned to navigate the rules.

 

I have to say I did learn from this movie that Senator Danforth was wayyy too invested in defending Thomas. I had no idea.

 

It kind of frustrates me that anyone could be on the USSC with this kind of a credible allegation made. That is such a prestigious position and there are so many people who could do a better job and not sexually harass people.

See, that's the thing ... when you're twenty you don't know what you don't know.  Just sayin'.

[BooBear]

See, that's the thing ... when you're twenty you don't know what you don't know.  Just sayin'.

Yep. Totally agree. Those things older women talk about... they are ALL TRUE. Weirdly I looked up Anita Hill and she teaches near me.  Maybe I could go audit a class. <g>

[sadiegirl]

I just finished watching this and started crying as soon as she started reading the letter at the end.  Those effing men should be ashamed of what they did to her.  I wish the video rental guy had gone to the Washington Post.  Maybe he did and no one cared.  I wonder how many of those senators would say, today, that they made the right decision in confirming him. If they had any sense of shame or honor, they would admit they were wrong.  And we all know how willing they are to admit when they are wrong.  Ha.

[RealityCowgirl]

One of my senators was part of the panel. I went to a book signing many years ago and apologized on behalf of the women of our state. She was very gracious.

 

I've come to know the senator in the years since. Matching the man on the news clips who enraged me so at the time - and in the re-enactment here - with the person today is pretty tough.

[Aethera]

I really miss Tim Russert too. This made me miss all of those old new guys. 

 

What's interesting about Danforth is that I didn't know his role in this, but I did know he, like Specter, was one of a vanished breed of moderate Republicans - he was anti-Capital Punishment and came out as pro-gay marriage a few years ago. Irwin did a good job of making him reprehensible, but most of what I know of him other than this is that he was a decent guy.

 

It was really nice to watch Kerry Washington as Not Olivia Pope. I forgot how good of an actress she is!

[EdnasEdibles]

I really miss Tim Russert too. This made me miss all of those old new guys. 

 

What's interesting about Danforth is that I didn't know his role in this, but I did know he, like Specter, was one of a vanished breed of moderate Republicans - he was anti-Capital Punishment and came out as pro-gay marriage a few years ago. Irwin did a good job of making him reprehensible, but most of what I know of him other than this is that he was a decent guy.

 

It was really nice to watch Kerry Washington as Not Olivia Pope. I forgot how good of an actress she is!

 

I live in Missouri and everyone I've met who is even loosely involved in politics LOVES Danforth. Democrats & Republicans. It's weird to see him like this. I read somewhere else that he had championed Clarence Thomas earlier in his career and then had a blindspot with the guy that he couldn't shake. No matter what happened, he was convinced that Thomas was innocent.  

[Cara]

I was 27 years old when this happened. I thought Anita Hill was lying then. My opinion has not changed. I still think she lied!

Edited April 27, 2016 by Cara

[Neurochick]

I was 31 when this happened.  I don't think Anita Hill lied at all.  The thought of anybody having sex with Clarence Thomas, or him thinking that anybody with a brain would want to have sex with him grosses me out.  He is one un-sexy man. 

[Bastet]

I haven't watched this, because I read Speaking Truth to Power when it came out and feel like a fictionalized retelling isn't going to add anything beyond Hill's own words, but I'm hearing so much chatter about it I may have to borrow a friend's recording of it.  It's certainly heartening to hear that some people changed their mind after watching it.

I met Anita Hill in an airport ... while reading said book.  I was reading, became vaguely aware of someone standing near me, heard, "Are you enjoying the book?" and looked up to see the smiling face of the woman herself.  We chatted briefly.  I had believed her at the time of the hearings, and certainly after reading the book. 

[atomationage]

This was pretty uncomfortable to watch.  It was weird how exact they were on the words and her appearance.  I think Kerry Washington was too pretty for this role.  Anita Hill was more professional looking than her. 

On 4/17/2016 at 11:31 AM, revbfc said:

I have to agree with others who have found that Wendell Pierce's Clarence Thomas was WAY more sympathetic than the real man.

I found that pretty irritating. 

On 4/18/2016 at 8:02 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

But yeah, Wendell Pierce--you are that good, so couldn't you have shown us some of the sleazy aspects of the real life Thomas? I know you can do it!

I suppose the producers thought they were required to be as neutral as possible.

[represent]

Quote

It was really nice to watch Kerry Washington as Not Olivia Pope. I forgot how good of an actress she is!

This.

That Scandal show does not do her justice. I knew of KW's work before Scandal, so I was happy to see her get a steady gig, except when I wasn't because they make her look less talented than she is...

I was like WTF happened? I know she can act, that damn ass dramatic walk alone that they have her character doing on Scandal drives me nuts.

This is the KW I'm familiar with, I don't know what the hell Shonda and Co. are doing on that show.

 

Anyway, I don't remember all the details of this hearing except hair and coke. Watching this, I didn't remember the testimony with the book 

The Exorcist. Which begs the questions, which one of them read that book? Because I just can't buy it as a coincidence that lines from that book ended up in this testimony, no way.  And seriously? Her students found her pubic hair in between their graded papers that she returned to them? LOL, I'm sorry, shit like this in never truly funny, I'm just laughing at the stupidity. How the hell would they know from which part of her body the hair came from? She has hair on her head. But no, it's not possible that a hair from her head fell out while she was pouring over papers. This, this was the opposition research they had to shut Biden down? I mean did  I miss something, because it seemed like that was it.  Hair falling out on graded term papers is a lot different from identifying one's hair as a pubic one and chatting about it being in one's coke with colleagues.

At any rate, KW and WP said in an interview that they weren't going to try to play the story as leaning in any one way or the other. WP said in an interview, that in his research he found that Thomas came up the ranks at the same time as Eric Holder. He said that in  the black community, Eric Holder was seen as the golden boy and that, that was part of the chip that Thomas carried around on his shoulder. He talked about the "colorism" in the black community when it came to the support that Holder had and Thomas did not. This was way before Thomas was nominated for the court. This is the black elite traveling in the same circles kind of thing. So that is where the sympathetic angle came from, that he was trying to convey.  So it's interesting seeing a couple of posts from viewers who picked up on WP playing him sympathetic when I think back to this interview.  

Edited May 2, 2016 by represent

[Neurochick]

I'm watching this now and I believe her more now than I did then.  Back then I thought he was a nasty slime ball who looked like a pervert, like a guy who couldn't ejaculate unless someone was peeing on him.

As for colorism, I wonder if he would have harassed her if she had been light skinned.  I bet not.

The democrats were pissed, they didn't want to be like cats, grab them by the neck and don't let go until the prey is dead.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Neurochick

[SimoneS]

I confess that I haven't watched this movie because I was caught up in the Anita Hill drama in real life and didn't want to see it fictionalized. I am also not a fan of Kerry Washington's so-called acting. I believed Anita Hill completely and I was young when this was going on. Everything she said rang true to me and that she told people about it at the time made her even more credible in my eyes. I have despised Joe Biden ever since. I hated when Barack Obama chose him as his vice president and how the public has come to find him so sweet, lovable, etc. If Biden had decided to run for president, I was determined to become politically active for the first time in my life and do everything that I could to stop his candidacy. When the documentary, "Anita" was released, Anita Hill made comments about how Biden and his staff ran those hearings so I know she hasn't forgiven and forgotten any more than I have.

Edited June 1, 2016 by SimoneS

[Hanahope]

I just watched last night.  I didn't watch the hearings at the time, and now I'm sorry that I missed them.  Anita Hill was clearly so well spoken, intelligent, brave, and composed. You really could not twist or spin her answers, even to the most difficult questions about her decision to follow Thomas to two jobs.  She admitted poor judgment and gave good reasons for it.  I have absolutely no doubt the events occurred as she said.  And its wonderful that her testimony encouraged so many more women to come forward with their own stories and validate them and helped usher in the realization that women have been harassed and it needed to stop, and that women were woefully underrepresented in Congress, and the beginning of change there.

Thomas, more than likely, never considered his actions to be harassment as back then many men did not, made even more clear by the actions and statements of the Judiciary committee members. I'm sure its a combination of him being a little embarrassed by his conduct (knowing he went a bit too far, at a minimum, at least in certain statements),  and failing to realize at the time how wrong his conduct was and thus didn't want to accept blame for something he didn't think was wrong at the time.  Plus, of course, the nerve of 'that woman' trying to 'bring him down.'

I remember at the time in my own work place being in the presence of 'colorful' jokes made by men, including my boss.  Shortly after this whole thing finished, the men in my office were much more circumspect about the 'color' of their jokes, at least in the presence of women.  So things did get better, we have that.

Unfortunately it did come at the expense of putting Thomas on the Supreme Court, where his influence and votes cause a lasting adverse affect on our country, imo.  I'm sure there are some that are fine with that trade off.  I'm not sure I am.

I am convinced, however, that the later investigation of Bill Clinton for his conduct with Monica Lewinsky was in retaliation for the Thomas hearing.  The Reps wanted to show that a Dem could "act badly" toward a woman as well.  Even if the two instances could be equated,  Bill was out in a few years.  We're still stuck with Thomas, and will continue to be for a long time.

[Neurochick]

23 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

Thomas, more than likely, never considered his actions to be harassment as back then many men did not, made even more clear by the actions and statements of the Judiciary committee members. I'm sure its a combination of him being a little embarrassed by his conduct (knowing he went a bit too far, at a minimum, at least in certain statements),  and failing to realize at the time how wrong his conduct was and thus didn't want to accept blame for something he didn't think was wrong at the time.  Plus, of course, the nerve of 'that woman' trying to 'bring him down.'

I remember at the time in my own work place being in the presence of 'colorful' jokes made by men, including my boss.  Shortly after this whole thing finished, the men in my office were much more circumspect about the 'color' of their jokes, at least in the presence of women.  So things did get better, we have that.

This is very interesting.  In the 90's I watched a trial on Court TV of a man suing to get his job back.  He was fired for talking about an episode of Seinfeld.  It was the episode where Jerry went out with a woman and couldn't remember her name, but could only remember that it rhymed with a female body part.  At the end of the episode, the woman got pissed with Jerry because she realized he couldn't remember her name, she walked out and then Jerry shouts, "Delores!" 

So, the man sued to get his job back and won.  I remember watching and thinking that it was wrong that he was fired, after all Seinfeld was on broadcast TV, it wasn't as if he was talking about porn.  But that case made me think.  In a case like that, when people are telling jokes, or talking about TV shows, what is harassment?  What can and can't people talk about, regarding movies or TV programs? 

Maybe the answer is realizing that the work place is just that, a work place.  Some folks don't like that because they feel it restricts them.  I think what those hearings did, what Anita Hill accomplished was to start the conversation, to allow people to talk about what they found offensive, that they didn't have to just stand and take it. 

The most interesting part of the show for me, was when Thomas had been confirmed, the camera focused on the lone black woman who was working for the Republicans.  She had a look on her face that said, "Maybe I didn't do the right thing."

[Hanahope]

4 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Maybe the answer is realizing that the work place is just that, a work place.  Some folks don't like that because they feel it restricts them.  I think what those hearings did, what Anita Hill accomplished was to start the conversation, to allow people to talk about what they found offensive, that they didn't have to just stand and take it. 

Exactly.  Its one thing to make such jokes/comments amongst friends, its another when its your boss or co-workers making the comments.  You can complain about your friends, the worse that might happen is you lose a friend.  You complain about your boss or co-worker and you could lose your job, your income, and that can really damage a person.  Many women didn't want to risk that, so they kept quiet.  Anita Hill made it ok, or at least better, for women to complain and not have as much risk.  

Keep the 'colorful jokes' to your social engagement with your friends.  Maybe the office isn't as much "fun" but we're supposed to be productive and not "having fun" anyway, aren't we?  Speaking of which, I need to get back to work. :)

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Maybe the answer is realizing that the work place is just that, a work place.  Some folks don't like that because they feel it restricts them.  I think what those hearings did, what Anita Hill accomplished was to start the conversation, to allow people to talk about what they found offensive, that they didn't have to just stand and take it. 

4 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Keep the 'colorful jokes' to your social engagement with your friends.  Maybe the office isn't as much "fun" but we're supposed to be productive and not "having fun" anyway, aren't we?  Speaking of which, I need to get back to work. :)

 

The real issue is that those sexist jokes and comments are never innocent despite men claiming that they are. Men make those sexist jokes and comments to deliberately assert power over women, make them uncomfortable, and drive them out of the workplace if necessary. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

The most interesting part of the show for me, was when Thomas had been confirmed, the camera focused on the lone black woman who was working for the Republicans.  She had a look on her face that said, "Maybe I didn't do the right thing."

That character was Judy Smith, the real-life person Scandal's Olivia Pope is based on. Given who some of Smith's high profile, scandal-ridden clients have been, I'd be surprised if she had any regrets at all. I'd also wonder if she was among the people who asked the producers to portray their character in a more positive light than what the facts and reality would support.

[SimoneS]

On 6/4/2016 at 10:37 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

That character was Judy Smith, the real-life person Scandal's Olivia Pope is based on. Given who some of Smith's high profile, scandal-ridden clients have been, I'd be surprised if she had any regrets at all. I'd also wonder if she was among the people who asked the producers to portray their character in a more positive light than what the facts and reality would support.

I wouldn't be surprised if Judy Smith was one of those people. Goes to show you how society and cultural changes can happen so quickly. In the immediate aftermath of Thomas' confirmation, his supporters including those in the black community who accused Anita Hill of attempting to bring down a black man took a victory lap. However, as time passed and sexual harassment has been been more condemned and Thomas now has a track record on the bench, a whole lot of his supporters have attempted to pretend they were not involved in destroying Anita Hall. I include Joe Biden in this.

Edited June 6, 2016 by SimoneS

[Milburn Stone]

On April 20, 2016 at 8:13 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I'm confused on thing, though.  Was Thomas married before? Because Jamal did not look like he was 9 or 10 years old.  Anita had stated that Thomas wasn't married back when he first started harassing her. I

I was confused about that as well.

[atomationage]

Anita Hill was on the PBS News Hour tonight, starts about 4 minutes in: