S03.E17: Delaware

[MissAlmond]

Fake Betsy wrote that goodbye letter and it was read badly. Real Betsy told Ichabod how she wound up stuck in the catacombs and she sounded exactly like Fake Betsy. I'll take bad acting for $500, Alex.

Edited April 2, 2016 by MissAlmond

[benteen]

They brought Betsy Ross into the future...really?  The worst character on the show.  They've clearly learned nothing from the Katrina fiasco.  We lose Joe tonight, the one good love interest of the main three characters but gain Betsy and have to put up with Lying Daniel with Abbie.  I just don't know what to say.

 

There was plenty good in this episode too and I like how big Team Witness has grown.

[Rosiejuliemom]

Weeelll, she obviously has feeeelings. Not that you can tell from NR’s acting or the bizarre character trajectory (busty, flirty adventuress/ruthless spy/lynchpin and seamstress). (We know because they told us with a really bad letter read through.) What I would like to see out of this if anything is a Crane actively choosing Abbie moment. Like, "Nope. Sorry. Won't put anyone or anything before Abbie again. She is everything to me and she's been through enough. You don't even come close. Soz." I know he kind of chose to shiv Katrina last season, but it was in the spur of the moment. I want a clear set of his priorities communicated. Abbie is Priority 1, 2, 3 and 4. Then other Mills and Sophie, then general population of Sleepy Hollow, then national monuments, then Danny, then maybe Betsy.

 

If this happens, I will forgive the fuckery in the last couple of episodes. Granted, I'll still be pissed about Joe, but I can deal if I get this on my screen.

[Yolapukka]

 

But if the writers think the viewers want them to pair up Danny and Abbie, and Ichabod and Betsy, I think they should get a Most Clueless Writing Team award.

 

 

One hope is Betsy and Daniel meet , think one another the hottest thing since blast furnaces and have to go on the run together for ... reasons ... and are never seen again.

Edited April 2, 2016 by yuggapukka

[CalamityBoPeep]

After the show last week, I had thought that it must be adding up to something good... they couldn't really be going with the Danny/Abbie ship at this late stage, right? So I thought it had to be some kind of bait-and-switch. "Put up with this for an episode, and get rewarded with the awesomeness of Ichabbie for the next two!"

 

And on that frail, paper thin hope, I sat down to watch tonight's show happily anticipating a rollicking roller-coaster with all kinds of wonderful Ichabbie moments in the catacombs, where they'd be alone working on a mission together for a change! The little tease at the beginning, at home with the doughnut and the coffee... yes! Beautiful! More please. 

 

Betsy fucking Ross was an ice cold bucket of water dumped all at once, destroying my anticipation, enjoyment, and trust. I'll watch the damned finale, but at this point, writers' reassurances ("Trust us! You'll love it!") are just bitter sawdust in my mouth.  "Ichabod? Is that you?" <breathy whisper>.  Oh. Dear. God. It makes me sick. And he's supposed to be acting all stricken and caring... <spit>

 

He should have been like, "yep, me, here put this sheet over your head for a sec" and skedaddled the hell out of there, pulling Abbie along with him. They had a job to do. What the hell were they doing dealing with that time-sink anyway? Time in the catacombs is known to pass more rapidly that time above ground. Every minute they spent down there, not doing their job, had to be the equivalent of some number of hours at least. (I haven't sat down to calculate it out, and I don't plan to, but seriously... the writers damn well should have.)

 

Maybe they're just trying to wean us slowly from caring if they get renewed. I'm so, so disappointed right now. 

 

ETA: I think I may have the time thing backwards... not sure... but I think an hour down there would be some number of minutes in the surface world... not the way I said it above... (always get confused by time zone switching too ;-) ). But the point is really that Time. Is. Of. The. Essence. When you have a ticking clock and an angry god all ready to destroy the world, you don't futz around moseying and discussing and listening to terrible actresses narrate irrelevant material!

Edited April 2, 2016 by CalamityBoPeep

[shanndee]

OMFG. 

 

I honestly didn't think it was realistically possible to get worse than Failure!Witch and the whole season 2 fiasco...then they repeat one of the most grievous error of S2? Do I really see an actress worse than the one who portrayed Katrina?

 

I tried show. I really did. If you are so determined to throw everything away I'm no longer willing to fight for you. Fair thee well.

 

Good luck with your future endeavours Tom and Nicole. You both deserve better...and we all know it can only get better from here!

[AD55]

I'm going to have to rewatch this episode, but I felt like I was in the land of a dozen fake-outs. There was the first scene, of course. It was one of the first times I thought that Abbie might be having incipient romantic feelings for Crane. As many have said, he's been on the love train for a long time. When Danny showed up and started talking to Abbie like they were a couple, I thought her look was expressive of "this isn't the time, but I'm going to have to break something to you later." Then he proposes a romantic weekend, and she says "I'm going to hold you to that." Aaarrggghh. There were other instances of the old bait and switch, but they got obliterated from my mind when iZombie showed up and flashed her Crest-girl smile.

 

Was anyone else irked that Danny started ordering everyone around? I suppose it was in character, but I really wanted someone to tell him, this isn't an FBI crime scene, big fella. Let the experienced hands take charge. In the meantime, here's a key to the archives. You'll find the reading list for Gods and Monsters 101 on the work table.

 

ETA, CalamityBoPeep beat me to the bait-and-switch observation, which I didn't see until I hit save.

Edited April 2, 2016 by AD55

[catrox14]

I just have to say, Abbie's face was HILARIOUS when Betsy woke up. She was like...WHUT the Fucking Fuck is this

 

Sleepy Hollow tumblr and twitter is pretty funny right now.

 

Someone asked if Ezra Mills is John Winchester...and I didn't know who I was more offended for:  The Mills Sisters or the Winchester Brothers ...and I thought well the only way to settle this is with a SH/SPN crossover.

 

#WillSellMySoul4SuperSleepy

Edited April 2, 2016 by catrox14

[Commando Cody]

Damn you show! Damn you all to hell! 

 

What the fucking fuck.

 

This show can not learn from it's past mistakes. They gave Betsey a story line right out of the show. - but no. They didn't take it. What the hell? Did they kill Joe so they could pay for a worse actor?

 

Everything good about this episode just got wiped out. Every time Betsey is mentioned it takes me right out of the show. 

[PaisleyPark]

I rolled my eyes so hard at the ship-baiting in the beginning that I almost couldn't enjoy it. They can eat each other's doughnuts and drink each other's coffee all they want, but they will never be my Richonne sharing an apple (not that they were trying to be, but I couldn't help but see the similarities).

 

Hopefully they can reverse that Joe death next week. If it even matters. I also hope Betsy's eternal soul is they one they use instead of Abbie's or Ichabod's.

The bolded made me laugh!  I can't disagree with ya...Richonne is pretty awesome!  

[Yolapukka]

 

Was anyone else irked that Danny started ordering everyone around? I suppose it was in character, but I really wanted someone to tell him, this isn't an FBI crime scene, big fella. Let the experienced hands take charge.

 

Yeah, I was muttering at him to back the hell up when he started ordering Jenny around when THO stepped out of the way and she thought she had a clear shot at the hourglass. Too bad she waited there for a dog's age lining up the shot while she sang, danced and backflipped to Walking On Sunshine. However, what is the likelihood that an ordinary bullet could shatter the thing anyway? Even less likely than taking out demons with gunplay, since that has at least had some effect on rare occasions on a few demons, (not very many tho...)

Edited April 2, 2016 by yuggapukka

[Free]

Fake Betsy wrote that goodbye letter and it was read badly. Real Betsy told Ichabod how she wound up stuck in the catacombs and she sounded exactly like Fake Betsy. I'll take bad acting for $500, Alex.

 

I wasn't sure if it was the acting, the character, or the writing, or even all of it.  She always felt so out of place during the flashbacks, she probably would've worked better as just a cameo with her flag bit instead of being strung along throughout the season.

[Sportsgal324]

My husband actually told me to knock off the commentary while watching the show, because I spent so much of this episode yelling at the tv (again!).  Like when Danny walks in and says, "Is now a good time to join the team?" and I'm shouting "NOOOOO!"  *laugh*  But it really bothered me that after the intimate opening season with Ichabbie and their breakfast treats, the show immediately switches to Danny talking about going to some lakehouse with Abbie and kissing her head and Abbie getting all whispery/breathy with him.  Yuck, yuck, yuck!  Go back to sexy Tom Mison relishing his maple bacon doughnut!! 

 

The scenes with Ichabbie on the boat were spellbinding.  Something weird has been going on with Ichabod's hair the last few episodes, but when they were rowing the boat, facing each other, talking about losses and faith and certainty, he had such a rugged handsomeness with a smoldering affection, it was hard not to sigh.  So many good moments with Ichabbie on this show (I love when she called him "Bobby Fischer"!!!), only to be ruined with bad, bad Betsy Ross.  She could not have annoyed me more, especially when she shot Abbie the dirty look.  I agree with the above posts hoping she disintegrates soon!

 

Moments of foreshadowing this episode:

*In the scene in the archives, Jenny says of THO, "He's a god.  Trying to take him down with brute force is suicide.  We need to focus on the hourglass."  She was definitely focused on shooting the hourglass on the mountain, not on shooting THO. 

*When Ichabod says "She was a different person altogether," of Betsy Ross' return, you sensed they were going to reveal later that the "real" Betsy was lurking in that area somewhere.

 

Things in the episode that were predictable:

*That Betsy would reappear to Ichabod in present day

*That Papa Mills would reveal he's known about the supernatural battle since before he left his girls

*That Danny would admit he'd been spying on Abbie (I still think he's a bad guy!)

*That, while looking at the "dead" insurgent on the shore, Ichabbie would see him "come back to life," albeit in zombie form

 

Thing in the episode that caught me off-guard:

*Joe's death, specifically at Jenny's hands

 

I feel like there are so many other things in this episode that I wanted to comment on, but my thoughts are not well-organized at the moment.  *sigh*  Despite the way the writers keep jerking the fans around, I still hope SH gets renewed, but only if there's no more Ichabbie teasing.  C'mon, there'd better be a kiss in the season finale, or I'm gonna start hitting the bottle!  *laugh*

[netlyon2]

Enero already posted a link to the article, but I'm going to throw this quote into the thread. It's from CC regarding Betsy's role in the grand scheme of things. Mild spoilers for next week, I guess.

Q: Betsy is now back. How will her being in the present impact the story?

A: We're in the catacombs, which is a timeless realm. When she returns, she returns as the rules of well of time indicate, she returns from whence she came. That was always a part of the plan this season—the overall arc of Betsy Ross and their original partnership—to bring it full-circle. And to have Crane and Betsy have a final moment together, and to do the pass off with Abbie being his one true partner, was too enticing to pass up. When you have an opportunity like this realm and the catacombs, it really laid out nicely.

I remember Campbell saying earlier in the season that Betsy wasn't coming to the present; they see the Underworld as an outside space, like Purgatory. My guess is that BR will either not leave the Catacombs at all or will be transported back to 1776 and live to become the Betsy Ross of history. Either way, she'll be done and I'll be glad; my flashback trauma has been rough.

I did have some issues with this episode (Jenny continues on her quest to be the worst; I want my Joey C back!), but I'm not particularly upset by it. At first, I didn't want Danny to die (didn't want him as a martyr in Abbie's heart), but I'd be fine with it now. Sophie can tell Abbie all about his lying-ass lies. Based on the preview, I vote that he

hops right on into Pandora's box like that dude in The Black Cauldron. That would be protecting Abbie, all right. Also, HEADLESS!!1!

I'm also curious to see if THO will actually do anything now that he's got that Sho-Nuff glow. Sure, he turned Joe into the Wendigo, but so did Henry (last season), a piece of Pandora's box, and Pandora herself. Hell, I could probably turn people into Wendigoes at this point!

[catrox14]

show (I love when she called him "Bobby Fischer"!!!),

 

YES I laughed so hard!

 

I think Tom's hair is growing to a manageable length.  They are just SOOOO pretty

[possibilities]

Was anyone else irked that Danny started ordering everyone around? I suppose it was in character, but I really wanted someone to tell him, this isn't an FBI crime scene, big fella. Let the experienced hands take charge. In the meantime, here's a key to the archives. You'll find the reading list for Gods and Monsters 101 on the work table.

Seriously, he needs to be taken down several pegs. I was really annoyed that after that arrogant outburst, he was actually right. I wanted so badly for everyone to tell him to shut up, and then for Jenny to do something to prove him wrong. I don't want him dying any heroic deaths, either. He needs to learn his lesson and not die leaving Abbie feeling sad and unresolved.

 

I think the show heard the complaints that there is never a love triangle with guys fighting over a WOC, thus setting up Danny and Ichabod to both want Abbie. I'm not defending the execution of this story, just saying I actually think they might have thought they were doing what was asked, and also "evening the score" because of the string of ladies lusting after Ichabod. Nobody wants Abbie to choose Crane because no one else will have her.

 

Likewise, I don't want to see Daddy To The Rescue, but they already killed Mom, so if they think they are even-ing the score by giving Mills Family Drama, it might be again because they think things need to be made equal.

 

Heh. This makes me think maybe Joe is going to be in purgatory. I realize folks say the actor has confirmed he's gone, but it's making me laugh to imagine him in purgatory speaking to Jenny in a whispery voice through mirrors and asking her to save him. I AM NOT SERIOUS. I don't want the show to actually do this. I only think it's funny as a passing thought, not an actual story.

[HalcyonDays]

Because I am shallow...let me just say that when I was watching the show, dear GOD, Mison looked amazingly hot. Like, him on the boat, draped with the blanket, in the fog-strewn background.....dear god, GORGEOUS! Just, exceptionally amazing. I love this man....

[CalamityBoPeep]

Because I am shallow...let me just say that when I was watching the show, dear GOD, Mison looked amazingly hot. Like, him on the boat, draped with the blanket, in the fog-strewn background.....dear god, GORGEOUS! Just, exceptionally amazing. I love this man....

 

Absolutely. As disappointed with the episode as I am, I can't wait for the youtube fan videos that will be made with those shots! LOL

[Indi]

Also, Abbie was in the catacombs 6 weeks real time, but 10 months Demonic Daylight Time. Betsy was in there over 200 years real time and she thinks, like, what? Four months have passed? Seven tops? Is that because she unexplainably went into some kind of stasis?

 

Nothing about Sexy!Betsy still in the catacombs made any sense. Didn't Abbie escape the catacombs thanks to clues Sexy!Betsy left behind? WTF? Also, how convenient that they experienced time differently, huh? But, hey, this is a supernatural show, so rules and consistency are for sissies. Abbie wasn't able to sleep for 10 months, but Sexy!Betsy had been snoozing for who knows how long. Abbie spent all that time in the catacombs exploring, drawing maps, looking for ways out, etc... but somehow she missed Sexy!Betsy there... ?!?!??!

 

So another boring and nonsensical episode, that failed in almost every way possible. The ship baiting was so embarrassing, it was ridiculous, but those scenes don't bother me as much, since Abbie is shagging the hot dude, even if it won't last long. The stupid ship baiting has become a source of mockery for me now. 

 

Other than allowing Abbie to sport her natural hair, killing Joe is the best thing this season has done. I hope they don't undo it in the finale.

[phoenics]

Enero already posted a link to the article, but I'm going to throw this quote into the thread. It's from CC regarding Betsy's role in the grand scheme of things. Mild spoilers for next week, I guess.

I remember Campbell saying earlier in the season that Betsy wasn't coming to the present; they see the Underworld as an outside space, like Purgatory. My guess is that BR will either not leave the Catacombs at all or will be transported back to 1776 and live to become the Betsy Ross of history. Either way, she'll be done and I'll be glad; my flashback trauma has been rough.

I did have some issues with this episode (Jenny continues on her quest to be the worst; I want my Joey C back!), but I'm not particularly upset by it. At first, I didn't want Danny to die (didn't want him as a martyr in Abbie's heart), but I'd be fine with it now. Sophie can tell Abbie all about his lying-ass lies. Based on the preview, I vote that he

hops right on into Pandora's box like that dude in The Black Cauldron. That would be protecting Abbie, all right. Also, HEADLESS!!1!

I'm also curious to see if THO will actually do anything now that he's got that Sho-Nuff glow. Sure, he turned Joe into the Wendigo, but so did Henry (last season), a piece of Pandora's box, and Pandora herself. Hell, I could probably turn people into Wendigoes at this point!

I still feel stabby so I'm going to print out that CC and Co have a habit of trying to reclaim fandom terms. They actually used #ichabbie in tweets, but clearly mean it in a platonic way.. and now CC uses "one true partner" in this stupid article, when OTP means One True PAIRING!! ROMANTICALLY!!!!!

Gah it's like they just WANT to make us insane and to take everything. Stop teasing! Stop taking our fandom cues and crapping on them and APPROPRIATING them! You can't change what OTP means! And you can't use Ichabbie and mean it platonically. A true partner would be a BrOTP, not an OTP and Ichabbie MEANS ROMANTIC!

*throws something*

ETA: Peeks back in and sees that you said "SHO-NUFF glow". Smiles. Laughs. Mouth thins as I remember the rest. Throws something else.

Edited April 2, 2016 by phoenics

[HalcyonDays]

Dear god, Tom Mison, doing his "coffee presentation" thing, then the windswept beautifulness of this gorgeous creature, in the boat, crossing the River Styx..my god, why must you test me....? Wow. Just..Wow...

[CooperTV]

I was saying from the very beginning Daddy Mills knew Nevins and Corbin. Glad it finally came up in the second to last episode of probably entire show.  The entire plot involving him stupid as hell, Jenny was dumb about THO and Joe died... because reasons, I guess. Eh.

 

Look at that, Betsy was sleeping whole this time! What a remarkable coincidence and revelation. But at least I liked backs, and the zombie was way cool. Unlike everything about Danny, who is hot but absolute waste of space at this point.

 

TPTBs gave us insane amount of couply!Abbie and Ichabod and "we have intense bond noone could ever break"!Abbie and Ichabod and supportive!Abbie and Ichabod and "we're holding hands because we're in this together"!Abbie and Ichabod, and it's all very platonic and bro-like, of course. Since Betsy is back and Danny wants to have romantic getaway with Abbie. PLATONIC, I say!

 

Farewell, Joe. You and your death served no purpose.

 

ETA

 

I don't think Joe is dead dead.  He didn't turn into dust and blow away.

We have a suspended animation zombie necklace from the Catacombs. Or Pandora could revive him.

Edited April 2, 2016 by CooperTV

[Helena Dax]

I'm going to forget about Danny and Betsy for a moment...

 

The episode was great. The coffee scene... Omg! With the kind of relationship they have, the fact that Abbie isn't even thinking about him in that way is almost unrealistic. And I agree with you, HalcyonDays, he looked insanely hot in this episode!

 

I'm sad for Joe and Jenny, but if he needs to die, so be it. It isn't the worst thing this show has done, tbh. But 

I'm not sure he's going to stay dead forever. Something in CC's interview makes me think he could come back, free of the Wendigo.

On the other hand, what happened to Jenny. One moment she was lying down at THO's feet and suddenly she's arriving where Joe is. For a moment, I even thought she was a fake Jenny. Terrible editing.

 

Dad Mills is useful, after all. I think we all see that coming, his presence didn't make sense otherwise. 

 

But sadly, there are more things to talk about. Danny and Betsy. Ugh again. Danny needs to die now. Or go away, I'm not picky. And Betsy... After reading that interview, 

I think she won't go to the future with Ichabod and Abbie. It seems she and Ichabod will have a last, real good-bye, and then she'll go back to her own time or will turn into dust. And oh, maybe he'll have the chance to go back in time with her, but he'll choose to stay with Abbie. That would be awesome (and a bit unfair to Henry but who cares, at this point).

And wow, that look she gave Abbie was nasty. 

 

One episode left... Let's cross our fingers.

[slade3]

I rolled my eyes so hard at the ship-baiting in the beginning that I almost couldn't enjoy it. They can eat each other's doughnuts and drink each other's coffee all they want, but they will never be my Richonne sharing an apple (not that they were trying to be, but I couldn't help but see the similarities).

 

Hopefully they can reverse that Joe death next week. If it even matters. I also hope Betsy's eternal soul is they one they use instead of Abbie's or Ichabod's.

I rolled my eyes, too. I thought it was a very cute scene, but it was too late for me. And it felt patronizing. That whole "let's eat from each other because we're so close" scene was so annoying because the show had a couple of seasons to do that for us. They've been living together. Of course they share food. Why highlight it now? And not to bring Richonne into this, but some people keep asking why Richonne shippers are terrified Michonne will be killed, or Rick will hurt her in some devastating way, and I've been trying to explain this is why. 

 

Joe's death surprised me. If I cared more about this show, that scene would have really hurt me. If I cared more about the show and Lyndie Greenwood, I'd probably be declaring my intentions to stop watching since that was cruel.

 

I have to admit I'm surprised people think the show has a shot at renewal. I haven't been following the numbers, so I've just assumed it will be canceled. I simply don't see how it can come back after this season. I think BB King said it best, "The thrill is gone, baby."

 

The finale will have to have some seriously intense Crane/Abbie bonding scenes for me to even consider watching another season, but I just don't see how NB and TM can get their chemistry back. 

 

FYI: Zach Appelman did an interview with Entertainment Weekly http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/01/sleepy-hollow-zach-appelman-delaware

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Crane making cappuccino for Abbie reminded me of what he said way back in S2 (seriously, you guys, doesn't this seem like it happened a million years ago?):

 

 

Sadistic larceny! This is typical of the Italians. A gordy hillock of overheated milk atop a thimble's worth of coffee. And the cost! It's equal to three Tennessee stallions.

 

When Crane said, "I recognize this handwriting," it made me sad that in this digital day and age many people wouldn't recognize their friends' handwriting. I remember writing notes to my friends in middle school and high school. Sometimes when I visit my parents' house, I find old notes from my friends and I recognize who wrote them by the handwriting on the outside.

 

I definitely did not like Danny making the executive decision to tell Jenny not to take a shot at the hourglass. Dude, you're the newest guy. Why are you making all the decisions? I'm not saying that he was wrong, but why does the guy who has the least amount of experience dealing with the supernatural get to decide what's best to do? Yes, he has experience with the FBI but that's not entirely the same thing.

 

Oh, Papa Mills, promising to tell someone everything "once this is over" is the kiss of death.

 

As soon as Joe volunteered to go back to the trailer by himself, I was just waiting for him to die. Is it wrong that when Jenny was crying over his body, all I noticed was that she was strategically positioned to hide the nudity of his bathing suit area? I know the show wants me to be distraught about Jenny having to kill Joe, but sorry, I lived through Buffy killing Angel to save the world and this didn't even come close. I liked Joe because he was a nice guy and I was glad that Jenny had a better love interest than the guy who was into her and Abbie last season (Hawley?), but that's about as far as it goes.

 

I feel like the show wants me to wonder who the other Betsy Ross was, but let me make this clear, show: I give absolutely no fucks about any version of Betsy Ross on this show. Please let the character die so I don't have to listen to Nikki Reed's terrible line readings anymore. I have to admit that I laughed a little when it turned out that Betsy just took a really long nap. I probably had to laugh about it to keep from crying about the fact that she wasn't most sincerely dead.

 

I'm not one to swoon over Tom Mison, but whatever was going on in that boat scene was amazing. Maybe it was that the smoky background made his eyes seem even bluer than usual or something. Heh, or maybe he just looks better when he's really pale?

 

One hope is Betsy and Daniel meet , think one another the hottest thing since blast furnaces and have to go on the run together for ... reasons ... and are never seen again.

Ooh, yes! Best suggestion for the show I've seen so far!

Edited April 2, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[slade3]

When Crane said, "I recognize this handwriting," it made me sad that in this digital day and age many people wouldn't recognize their friends' handwriting. I remember writing notes to my friends in middle school and high school. Sometimes when I visit my parents' house, I find old notes from my friends and I recognize who wrote them by the handwriting on the outside.

 

Even though I don't need the clutter in my life, I've managed to keep several notes I passed with friends in high school. It's been nearly 30 years since I spoke to most of these people, but I can still recognize their handwriting. I think I have only one note with a handwriting I can't recognize and that made me sad.

[CooperTV]

I feel like the show wants me to wonder who the other Betsy Ross was, but let me make this clear, show: I give absolutely no fucks about any version of Betsy Ross on this show. Please let the character die so I don't have to listen to Nikki Reed's terrible line readings anymore. I have to admit that I laughed a little when it turned out that Betsy just took a really long nap. I probably had to laugh about it to keep from crying about the fact that she wasn't most sincerely dead.

 

Based on CC's interview I'd say that Other!Betsy is Our!Betsy who came back through the well into her own 1776 and never spoke to Crane again to not disturb a timeline or whatever. We'll see, though.

[Julia]

Can’t remember the name of the film, very old one, (probably had a remake) where there is this village in the Himalayas where people live forever/stay young forever (ShangriLa?). ANYWAY, a team of explorers discover the valley and then are leaving at the end of the film and one of the local girls goes with them but as soon as she leaves the protection of the valley she shrivels into her actual (very old) age and dies. Maybe that will happen to Betsy Ross. Fingers crossed.

Lost Horizon. With the very dreamy Ronald Colman and Spock's mom as his seventeen-year-old love interest.

Heh, I'm picturing Betsy Ross being a total racist and Ichabod being OH HELL NO. And then he kicks her back to the curb or the 18th century...

Aw, c'mon. I realize playing up the observant quaker angle would have gotten in the way of the whole killing people and prostituting herself and wearing her breasts up around her chin thing, but at least leave her not being a racist.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Julia

[theatremouse]

How is it that Abbie and Crane went to the catacombs to rebuild Pandora's box so they could save the world only to spend the whole time strolling down memory lane of Abbie's previous time there and of course Betsy's death? Sigh.

The only part of this that made sense was that Crane and Abbie seemed in no damn hurry in the catacombs since they knew before it was 6 weeks in the regular world and 10 months for Abbie. So if anything, they actually didn't have to rush. It was only when they found Television's Worst Actress and she was all "surely it's been months" and not having gone completely insane from isolation for what should've felt like a thousand years that that changed. So then at that point, in a very kinda-maybe-ok-fine sense, I was ok with their being all WHAAA about Betsy's different interpretation of time there. Because if it's not consistent relative between the two worlds, then they might've already missing the fucking apocalypse they were aiming to prevent.

 

I wasn't sure if it was the acting, the character, or the writing, or even all of it.  She always felt so out of place during the flashbacks, she probably would've worked better as just a cameo with her flag bit instead of being strung along throughout the season.

It's the acting. It's SO the acting. I'm not saying the character or the writing is great, but I want to say nearly any other damn actor could've made that half-watchable, compared to this where I cringe every time she talks she's so bad. 8 year old wooden child actors on the Disney channel bring more depth to characters than this.

[MissAlmond]

Now that the ear worm of The Horrible Recitations of Nikki Reed is out of my head, here are my thoughts.

 

First, thank you, Enero, for posting that link. 

Look show, nobody gives a damn about Crane having closure over Betsy Ross.  But if that what it takes to get rid of her, so be it. 

Champagne for All!

 

TM and NB looked beautiful throughout this episode. 

 

I like that Papa Mills knew all about the supernatural.  I'm  tempted to re-watch the Nevins episode to pay attention to the other soldiers who were there when he and Corbin found the cash. 

 

I think Joe had to die at the hands of Jenny because that's how THO intended it to be.  Remember how he destroyed Mr. and Mrs Kindress when they found love?  He basically did the same with Jenny, so no amount of pleading with Wendingo Joe to become Joe Joe was going to work this time. 

 

I wonder if Pandora did soak up some of THO"s power and is keeping silent.  She's much smarter then THO gives her credit for. 

 

I'll give THO credit for this:  He told Pandora some home truths.  She should have been smarter and realized there "was" a reason he was banned by the other gods.  IOW, he was a snake when she picked  him up.  Remember that boys and girls. 

 

The only time I don't wish death on Daniel Reynolds is when he's with Sophie.  That's who he needs to ask out for pancakes.  And no, I didn't appreciate him barking orders after only being part of the team for a hot second. Hoping that tale of a saboteur being aboard Washington's boat is a foreshadowing of who Danny Reynolds really is. 

 

From the previews it looks like

Headless Headless is back.

  Yeah! 

 

And just in case she missed it from last week:  Nikki, my dear.  The next time your agent sends you a script to portray a character before 1980, turn it down immediately.  Because you're really, really, really bad in period pieces. 

[Enero]

As soon as Joe volunteered to go back to the trailer by himself, I was just waiting for him to die. Is it wrong that when Jenny was crying over his body, all I noticed was that she was strategically positioned to hide the nudity of his bathing suit area? I know the show wants me to be distraught about Jenny having to kill Joe, but sorry...I liked Joe because he was a nice guy and I was glad that Jenny had a better love interest than the guy who was into her and Abbie last season (Hawley?), but that's about as far as it goes.

I noticed this too. Lol. I liked Joe as well. Not just because he was a better guy than Hawley but he brought something a little different to the table being August Corbin's son. I thought there was a lot of potential for story there especially with Abbie and Jenny being sort of raised by Corbin, but I don't think the show fleshed it out as well as they could've. I was disappointed, not devastated they killed Joe.

I'm not one to swoon over Tom Mison, but whatever was going on in that boat scene was amazing.

Agreed. TM does nothing for me. But I can appreciate his attractiveness. He looked really good in the boat scene. Perhaps it was the natural lighting? He's actually looked more attractive in the back half of the season. I think this might be due to his hair. He cut it a little shorter. The change suits him well.

The finale will have to have some seriously intense Crane/Abbie bonding scenes for me to even consider watching another season, but I just don't see how NB and TM can get their chemistry back.

IMO NB and TM's chemistry has been off the charts this season, most specifically in these back half episodes. It's the writing that's been hot and cold.

I think the show heard the complaints that there is never a love triangle with guys fighting over a WOC, thus setting up Danny and Ichabod to both want Abbie. I'm not defending the execution of this story, just saying I actually think they might have thought they were doing what was asked, and also "evening the score" because of the string of ladies lusting after Ichabod. Nobody wants Abbie to choose Crane because no one else will have her.

Well it wasn't that nobody wanted Abbie. There was after all Luke, Andy, Hawley (before he decided Jenny was the easier play) and now Danny. Men have wanted Abbie but she hasn't wanted them. I agree though, they threw in Danny so that Abbie could have some sort of romance onscreen before they explore her with Crane, IF they explore her with Crane.

Likewise, I don't want to see Daddy To The Rescue, but they already killed Mom, so if they think they are even-ing the score by giving Mills Family Drama, it might be again because they think things need to be made equal.

Looks like they're trying to do a couple of things with Papa Mills. Give Abbie, and Jenny, more back story and depth, something that fans asked for last season. And build more on the witness mythology. I guess my question at this point is how was Papa Mills leaving going to protect his daughters? Was some evil entity or organization after him? And if Corbin was in on the Witness stuff why was it better for him to raise and protect the Mills sisters than their own father?

Heh. This makes me think maybe Joe is going to be in purgatory. I realize folks say the actor has confirmed he's gone, but it's making me laugh to imagine him in purgatory speaking to Jenny in a whispery voice through mirrors and asking her to save him. I AM NOT SERIOUS. I don't want the shows to actually do this. I only think it's funny as a passing thought, not an actual story.

Though I don't want to see this either, anything is possible. Lol. When reading CC's interview I got the feeling that

Joe isn't dead. He specifically said this 'iteration" of Joe had to deal with the Winndego issue. So if the show gets another season there is the possibility that he may be back and free of the Winndego curse.

[AConspiracy]

I figure a show is on its last gasp when they embed a car commercial in the story.

[CalamityBoPeep]

The only part of this that made sense was that Crane and Abbie seemed in no damn hurry in the catacombs since they knew before it was 6 weeks in the regular world and 10 months for Abbie. So if anything, they actually didn't have to rush. It was only when they found Television's Worst Actress and she was all "surely it's been months" and not having gone completely insane from isolation for what should've felt like a thousand years that that changed. So then at that point, in a very kinda-maybe-ok-fine sense, I was ok with their being all WHAAA about Betsy's different interpretation of time there. Because if it's not consistent relative between the two worlds, then they might've already missing the fucking apocalypse they were aiming to prevent.

 

Agree. And the only reason I can figure that Betsy didn't lose her mind in the catacombs, was that she had no mind to lose.

 

What does a mindless, breathy, near-wigstand do when stuck in a one-roomed limbo for 200 years? Nothing. She takes a nap. 

[MissAlmond]

I figure a show is on its last gasp when they embed a car commercial in the story.

 

Nah, that's just the way of the world these days with advertising.  Too many people either FF or DVR episodes, skipping commercials all together.  It's the same with the Internet resorting to pop up ads and cookies.  Movies/TV have been doing product placement for years now. 

 

As an example on how times have changed: On the commentary of "Strictly Ballroom" one of the producers? talks of growing up near a neon sign and therefore usually includes one in movies she's involved with.  They wanted the use a Coca Cola sign in SB, so they paid Coke for the privilege. Looking back, she said Coke should have paid them!

 

Edited April 2, 2016 by MissAlmond

[Mrs OldManBalls]

I just have to say, Abbie's face was HILARIOUS when Betsy woke up. She was like...WHUT the Fucking Fuck is this

 

Sleepy Hollow tumblr and twitter is pretty funny right now.

 

Someone asked if Ezra Mills is John Winchester...and I didn't know who I was more offended for:  The Mills Sisters or the Winchester Brothers ...and I thought well the only way to settle this is with a SH/SPN crossover.

 

#WillSellMySoul4SuperSleepy

 

That would be a great crossover! The Winchesters boys and the Mills sisters? That's a lot of pretty. Castiel and Ichabod would be fun together! 

 

 

I didn't see Joe's death coming. He was sweet, I was sad to see him go. (One think that yanked me out of it? Holy shit is that one pale guy. (I'd have hated to be in charge of finding his body makeup match) 

[spaceghostess]

-groan- i knew they'd resurrect Betsy. Hopefully they kill her off next week.

 

Yes, please--preferably in the cold open. She can go *poof* once she informs Crane that he's obviously in love with his "new" partner.

[MissAlmond]

I forgot to note:  When Daniel, who sadly still lives, came to the house, I wanted Pandora to turn towards Abbie, raise her eyebrows and say: "Really girl?" 

[spaceghostess]

 

 

 

Beautiful beginning, lovely lighting on Crane and Abbie in the boat.  But then came Betsy.

 

 

Yes!! You beat me to the lighting comment. Absolutely gorgeous. It reminded me of the lighting from the porch scene in Ep. 1 (I think) this season. Just monochromatic enough to make the blue in Crane/TM's eyes pop like crazy, while NB is even more luminous than usual. They both looked gorgeous that entire boat scene--and thank you, writers, for giving us Abbie singing the national anthem. Lovely. I'll be re-watching all the river crossing bits.*

 

*Edited to snip redundancy.

Edited April 2, 2016 by spaceghostess

[DearEvette]

Let me get the UGH!!! stuff out of the way first.

 

BUSTY ROSS.  Why people why?!?!?!  I was so pissed but then I read the article posted almost right  after the episode aired  (hmm... as if they knew fans would not like the idea of a revived BR).  Ok, fine, let her and Ichabod say goodbye.  Whatever.  She is a terrible actress.  Was that supposed to be weariness and despair on her face when she sat down with that blanket? 

 

JOE!  I loved him as an addition and am super sad that he died.  But I remember that conversation between Irving and his Priest about the companions of the Witnesses and some of them falling during  the tribulations.  It makes sense that some of their people to die.  And at least I care about Joe and would not cheer him dying.

 

DANNY.  He's was part of the team for all of a nanosecond and started giving orders?  Bitch please.  Or questioning their decisions.  'Why do they both have to go?'  Uh, Pandora's weary expression as she explained was great.  If She could have eye-rolled him it would have been even better.  I am glad he didn't die. Abbie doesn't need to mourn him like some noble martyr.  But I hope she finds out he's been spying on her and reporting back about her and it kills any trust in for him in her.  Please.  Anything. 

 

Ok onto the good stuff.

 

This was actually a good episode.  Really good from a mythology standpoint.  I especially love the shot of Abbie and Ichabod going across the Delaware, her singing, him looking all gorgeous bathed in the Dawn's Early Light. 

 

I loved all the time Abbie and Ichabod spent together.  This was a good episode for their together time.  I know people are pissed about Betsy, but for me all the good Ichabod/Abbie face time really outweighs that.

 

Papa Mills being in the know!  I the show gets renewed I hope he stays around.  Jenny doesn't fall far from the tree.

 

So it looks like Washington grabbed Betsy's cutlass when he left and he is actually the one that left it in the well, not her? 

And maybe if they all leave that way they will be takne back to their own time and that is how she'll get back to 1776 and Ab/Ich will get back to the now.

 

My biggest disappointment, from a shipper standpoint, is if the show is using all the great Ichabbie stuff as a way to troll the shipper fans.  Outside of that I am enjoying the storytelling, but it'll be tainted if that is what is happening.  It doesn't help that Mison is really playing Ichabod as a man deeply in love.  I mena he practically devours her with his eyes.  I don't know if that is a directing note or if that is how he is choosing to do it. 

 

But if I don't think about the shippy stuff, this was a really, really  good episode. Acts great as a penultimate episode.

Edited April 2, 2016 by DearEvette

[ChromaKelly]

So... how does time in the catacombs work? I thought time moved very slowly, hence Abbie thinking it had been nearly a year when it had been six weeks. Betsy thought it had been a few months, when really it's been over 200 years. Is it different in that room she's in? Different for each person?
Please, please, PLEASE have her unable to return to our world for whatever reason!
I can't believe Jenny was that stupid to try to either shoot THO or the hourglass. And I was also WTF about how she escaped him. Or maybe THO let her go so that she could be the one to kill him and have eternal heartache. I also didn't know why on earth the B Team there didn't bring the map Jenny had with them on their mission. That might have come in handy. Oh, I guess they needed a plot contrivance to have Joe away from everyone.

[Rosiejuliemom]

So... how does time in the catacombs work? I thought time moved very slowly, hence Abbie thinking it had been nearly a year when it had been six weeks. Betsy thought it had been a few months, when really it's been over 200 years. Is it different in that room she's in? Different for each person?

 

Maybe the further inside the temple you go, the slower time moves? Or, time moved the same for Betsy as it did for Abbie...until Betsy decided to pull a Rip Van Winkle. A more extreme version of "I'll just lay down for a few minutes...How the hell have I been asleep for five hours?!" if you will.

[spaceghostess]

When Danny showed up and started talking to Abbie like they were a couple, I thought her look was expressive of "this isn't the time, but I'm going to have to break something to you later." Then he proposes a romantic weekend, and she says "I'm going to hold you to that." Aaarrggghh.

 

FWIW, my interpretation of that scene (and this could be a total fanwank on my part, but . . .) was Abbie saying whatever shit she thought would get him through the danger ahead. Like, "Here's something to look forward to, Danny, so you don't get yourself killed. Gotta hit the Catacombs with my actual soulmate now, mmkaybye!" End of the world danger precludes planning to dump his ass, but she definitely wasn't feeling anywhere near the feels he was. If the show isn't cancelled, Operation Dump Danny will go into effect over summer break/time jump, and he'll be gone for season 4. If they are cancelled, this last episode will see him sidelined permanently.

[Sparkling Beth]

Everyone needs to read the interview with Zach that slade3 posted above.  He's smart and funny and speaks for a lot of us about Ichabbie!

 

A couple of points--although it was badly edited, I just assumed that THO let Jenny go so she would have to feel the pain of killing Joe.  He said something to the effect of turning love into pain.  I don't think we're supposed to think she somehow escaped from him. 

 

As for Betsy's time in the catacombs compared to Abbie's, I think that while Abbie was awake the whole time, Betsy was in some kind of supernatural coma for the last two hundred years.  Crane said she had no breath and no pulse, so clearly she wasn't just taking a little nap when they arrived.  Also, Abbie didn't stumble across her when Abbie was in the catacombs because that room was hidden and you had to know the secret to getting into it, which involved those symbols that Crane touched.

[Ann Mack]

Just gorgeous. Why this show is so damn slow and clueless is painful to my Ichabbie heart:

 

[AD55]

Dear god, Tom Mison, doing his "coffee presentation" thing, then the windswept beautifulness of this gorgeous creature, in the boat, crossing the River Styx..my god, why must you test me....? Wow. Just..Wow...

He looked incredible in this episode, as did Nicole. If I ignore the bait-and-switch, I can bask in the fact that at least Abbie and Ichabod were together for the whole episode.

 

To be really shallow, one of the reasons I want the show to be renewed is that Tom Mison doesn't do much for me when he's not dressed as Ichabod. I've watched a couple of interviews, and he's barely recognizable. I need him in that coat, dammit, and hand acting. I love the hand acting. And his voice is different (sexier), too. I watched parts of Lost in Austen, which I stumbled on while I was channel surfing. I thought it was kind of boring, and I don't even remember Tom. I might have to revisit that. I don't think I've seen him in anything else. Nicole, on the other hand, is gorgeous all the time. Until someone mentioned it on the board, I didn't even realize that she played Jackie Robinson's wife in 42, and I watched that movie twice. Maybe not the best movie they could have made about Robinson's life, but man, Chadwick Boseman. Be still my heart. (Perhaps he is why I didn't recognize Nicole, come to think of it.) Anyway, I think Nicole looked completely different in that movie because it was a period piece and, like all good actors, she transforms herself into the part. Some of my favorite actors look so different from role to role that they are barely recognizable as themselves. Perhaps that's what Tom does. I personally find him kind of ordinary or sometimes even a little weird looking in real life (I am sure I wouldn't recognize him on the street), but when called on to play a hot eighteenth-century guy, he's up to the challenge.

 

Spaceghostess, I like your interpretation of the Abbie/Danny/weekend getaway scene. If it's a fanwank, I'm right there with you.

[catrox14]

Just gorgeous. Why this show is so damn slow and clueless is painful to my Ichabbie heart:

 

 

You know what..I'm tempted to just not watch the finale and assume this is end of the series and this is them just married or not!married...but together.

Edited April 2, 2016 by catrox14

[phoenics]

So - when Abbie was in the catacombs, she couldn't sleep at all. But when BR goes there, she just takes a nap? Okay let's assume she was in some sort of supernatural coma - how?

The show broke its own rules of the catacombs.

[FierceAfroChick]

When Crane said, "I recognize this handwriting," it made me sad that in this digital day and age many people wouldn't recognize their friends' handwriting. I remember writing notes to my friends in middle school and high school. Sometimes when I visit my parents' house, I find old notes from my friends and I recognize who wrote them by the handwriting on the outside.

 

I have a box full of letters from my sisters, mother, cousins and classmates back when I attended college in the 80s.  I scanned my sisters and a classmate copies recently and they were so excited to see and remember what they were like in their teens. I've actually been thinking of taking up writing letters again...have several older relatives in nursing homes who I don't get to see often and they don't have cell phones.  

 

Anyway, I actually watched the episode because Halcyon and others have been waxing lyrical about how beauteous Tom looks and the Crane/Abbie goodness.  And dayum.  Fast food and donuts are doing wonders for Crane's looks.

 

I do think it was a good episode, but I can't get over Joe being killed off when other characters are more worthy of death.

 

I think trying to parallel Crane's partnership with Abbie against his partnership with Betsy doesn't really work. 

 

And I found Abbie singing while holding the flag as they floated off in the boat just a bit cheesy.

 

Will be interested to see the ratings for this week and next week's finale.

Edited April 2, 2016 by FierceAfroChick

[MissAlmond]

A couple of points--although it was badly edited, I just assumed that THO let Jenny go so she would have to feel the pain of killing Joe.  He said something to the effect of turning love into pain.  I don't think we're supposed to think she somehow escaped from him.

 

That's exactly what I think (and posted).  THO wanted Jenny to kill Joe.  That's why she couldn't talk him out of being a Wendingo this time.  Again, remember how he destroyed The Kindred when he found love?  In this episode, THO didn't mince words - just as he told Pandora she should have known better than pity him, he told Jenny her love would turn to pain.

 

Joe Webb, in 5 Easy Tweets*, explains Catacomb Time and the difference between Abbie and Betsy:

 

*FTR: This was just a play on Five Easy Pieces and nothing to do with anyone's understanding of the catacombs and time.

 

Joe Webb ‏@JoeWebb13 15h15 hours ago

How is Betsy alive? 5 tweets that sort of explain: 1) Engine Room of Catacombs, where the box was forged, is powered by TIME.

 

Joe Webb ‏@JoeWebb13 15h15 hours ago

2) In your head, picture the gears of a watch. On the outside, they turn very fast. Thus for Abbie 1 month felt like 10 mos

 

Joe Webb ‏@JoeWebb13 15h15 hours ago

3) But on the inside of the watch, the inner gears turn very slowly. Thus for Betsy…250 years felt like 6 months.

 

Joe Webb ‏@JoeWebb13 15h15 hours ago

4) Which is why Abbie and Betsy experienced the time dilation effects of the Catacombs in more or less inverse fashion.

 

Joe Webb ‏@JoeWebb13 15h15 hours ago

5) But these phenomena are subservient to the idea that living INSIDE TIME means never being subjected to its ravages (aging).

 

Edited April 2, 2016 by MissAlmond

[Enero]

So - when Abbie was in the catacombs, she couldn't sleep at all. But when BR goes there, she just takes a nap? Okay let's assume she was in some sort of supernatural coma - how?The show broke its own rules of the catacombs.

Good point. Unless Betsy could sleep because she was not under the influence of some powerful magic as Abbie was. But still, if that is the case Betsy should've experienced thirst and hunger at some point and eventually starved to death.