S03.E17: Delaware

[CalamityBoPeep]

Joe Webb ‏@JoeWebb13 15h15 hours ago

4) Which is why Abbie and Betsy experienced the time dilation effects of the Catacombs in more or less inverse fashion.

 

 

Which... again... leads to "stop fucking around and get on with the job!" The apocalypse is so going to be over before they get back... ;-)

 

ETA: 

 

Betsy should've experienced thirst and hunger at some point and eventually starved to death

 

 

Oh, if only...

Edited April 2, 2016 by CalamityBoPeep

[spaceghostess]

 

Spaceghostess, I like your interpretation of the Abbie/Danny/weekend getaway scene. If it's a fanwank, I'm right there with you.

Welcome aboard my crazy train (or crazy rowboat on the river Styx--whichever you prefer), there's plenty of room! ;-)

 

Re: TM in Lost in Austen, I thought he was adorkable, but my husband didn't recognize him at ALL without the beard. The voice also threw him, which tells you just how much TM brings it in that department. I've also heard him in a BBC 4Extra drama or two. Because--yes--I'm an 80-year-old trapped in a 40-something body, and a huge radio nerd.

[ChromaKelly]

  Fast food and donuts are doing wonders for Crane's looks.

My husband remarked that Crane should be about 1000 pounds by now, as he has 18th century metabolism and his body is not used to high fructose corn syrup, genetically modified foods, refined sugar, and all the other crap we have in our food.

[CalamityBoPeep]

My husband remarked that Crane should be about 1000 pounds by now, as he has 18th century metabolism and his body is not used to high fructose corn syrup, genetically modified foods, refined sugar, and all the other crap we have in our food.

 

But he runs around in the woods a lot. ;-) That constant adrenaline rush has got to be eating some calories... LOL 

Edited April 2, 2016 by CalamityBoPeep

[HalcyonDays]

Too many things happened that I wasn't happy about.

 

But this I was happy about. Gonna miss this man on my screen....

 

[TaurusRose]

I lived through Buffy killing Angel to save the world and this didn't even come close.

Major truth bomb here.

 

I feel like the show wants me to wonder who the other Betsy Ross was, but let me make this clear, show: I give absolutely no fucks about any version of Betsy Ross on this show.

Are you my evil twin? LOL See, I thought Nikki Reed was a terrible actress in Twilight, movies full of badness, so I can't imagine how she got hired for SH. Nobody has ever sucked in a role as badly and of course, the character herself was NEVER necessary. And this is why I now hate this fucking show.

That would be a great crossover! The Winchesters boys and the Mills sisters? That's a lot of pretty. Castiel and Ichabod would be fun together!

Gah! I really don't know why people are clamoring for this. There is absolutely no appeal in this for me. I quit Supernatural seasons ago and have no desire to return.

Edited April 2, 2016 by taurusrose

[Julia]

My theory has always been that she was the only moderately-well-known actress they could get to NC on the cheap because her new husband, for whom absence apparently does not make the heart grow fonder, was being a vampire down the road.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Julia

[TaurusRose]

My theory has always been that she was the only moderately-well-known actress they could get to NC on the cheap because her new husband, for whom absence apparently does not make the heart grow fonder, was being a vampire down the road.

But here's the thing...who knew Tom Mison or Nicole Beharie before SH? Okay, maybe not exactly a fair question, but I certainly didn't know either one of them. But surprise, surprise. Both of them have turned out to be acting blockbusters, so a "name" wasn't really necessary. But say they were going that route to bring more of an audience to SH; this has proven to be an EPIC fail because few people know who Nikki Reed is. The Twilight crowd certainly hasn't followed her to SH; all they've managed to do was squander the remaining goodwill of the audience they had.

[CooperTV]

My theory has always been that she was the only moderately-well-known actress they could get to NC on the cheap because her new husband, for whom absence apparently does not make the heart grow fonder, was being a vampire down the road.

 

I'd rather they hired Nina Dobrev, Ian Somerhalder ex from Vampire Diaries. She's great at playing heroines from various periods of time and she's just great actress in general.

[Writing Wrongs]

If they keep Betsy, I think I'm out. Not even Tom Mison's prettiness can make me watch horrible acting from Nikki Reed.

 

I hate how Reynolds was trying to run shit. Go away, dude.

 

The best part of the show for me was Ichabod making Abbie's coffee. That was charming.

 

What's with all my shows going to The Underworld? Once and now this.

[catrox14]

 

Gah! I really don't know why people are clamoring for this. There is absolutely no appeal in this for me. I quit Supernatural seasons ago and have no desire to return.

 

Different strokes for different folks

 

I for one, think it would be a total hoot, never mind the eye candy explosions. There is so much to mine from!  I could see them arguing about how to deal with the exact same monsters they have each had. What is the best way to consecrate bullets. Dean and Ichabod could compare notes on time travel and what it's like to live in a different time period from whence you came. It's actually pretty well ripe for a shitload of stories. Hell throw in some Mulder and Scully for the Trifecta! 

 

But luckily, those who would not welcome nor appreciate a SuperSleepy crossover, can rest easy in the knowledge that it will literally never happen because the shows are owned by two competing networks and studios.

 

But that won't stop me dreaming about it or hoping it happens or noticing when SH is basically working from the template started by the XFiles and which carried into SPN. (RIP Kim Manners)

YMMV

 

/off to write those SuperSleepy fics

[Primetimer]

Then time literally runs out. Who killed it and who got killed in the penultimate episode (of the series?).

Read the story

[DeLurker]

So - when Abbie was in the catacombs, she couldn't sleep at all. But when BR goes there, she just takes a nap? Okay let's assume she was in some sort of supernatural coma - how?

BR is so boring she puts herself to sleep.

   

Too many things happened that I wasn't happy about.

    But this I was happy about. Gonna miss this man on my screen....

 

Why do I think TM will still be found on your screen as a screensaver?

 

You guys have covered everything I would say, but if you haven't watched it yet, just stop right after the coffee and donut scene.

 

And BR awakens from her self-induced coma and is commenting on the fact that Crane's hair looks so clean?  Really?  At least they resisted having her awaken by Crane's kiss.

 

Not even sure I can watch the finale.

[catrox14]

Lost Horizon. With the very dreamy Ronald Colman and Spock's mom as his seventeen-year-old love interest.
   

Aw, c'mon. I realize playing up the observant quaker angle would have gotten in the way of the whole killing people and prostituting herself and wearing her breasts up around her chin thing, but at least leave her not being a racist.

 

My comment didn't come out of nowhere FTR. I didn't say it just for the snark of it.

 

Look at how Abbie was treated when she went back to that time. Personally, I don't think the look she gave Abbie was because she was jealous that Ichabod had a girl. To me that look went beyond girly jealousy to "You have have overstepped your boundaries. Now get back in your place, girl".  I don't think her reacting that way would be out of order given the mores of her time.

Also, if they had her just readily accept Abbie as quickly as Ichabod did, then they would be co-opting the pilot with Busty instead of Ichabod...and I really don't think they want to do that.

[Julia]

But this Betsy is a smug, smirky asshat to everyone, partly from the writing and partly because she's being played as if she was a teenager from the OC. I guess I feel like the shade of the real woman, who was pretty damn impressive even without sewing the flag, deserves better than having that particular thing piled on her when she was from one of the few groups who were better than that.

[mtlchick]

Well show, you know how to make me ship a couple hardcore.  You also know how to bring annoy the hell out of me with some of your female characters (Katrina, now Betsy) so I guess...status quo?  

[HalcyonDays]

BR is so boring she puts herself to sleep.

 

LOL. So true. Just a dull character. And her telling her story was so badly narrated - it's like, she has problems reading or something.

 

You guys have covered everything I would say, but if you haven't watched it yet, just stop right after the coffee and donut scene.

 

No, after doughnuts and coffee, fast-forward to the Ichabbie in a Boat scene and watch that in it's entirety.

 

Which begs the all important question - how many of you have platonic friends who you brush crumbs off their lips, and drink and eat each others food? Just wondering, for statistical purposes....

 

And BR awakens from her self-induced coma and is commenting on the fact that Crane's hair looks so clean?  Really? 

 

I did laugh at that comment, because it would be true, wouldn't it? But then, BR's hair also look "clean", but rightfully, it shouldn't be either.

 

Why do I think TM will still be found on your screen as a screensaver?

 

Hee. You know me too well. I just want to see this talented person on my TV for much longer.

 

One thing that I didn't see mentioned - I thought it was very interesting that Papa Mills cryptically said that he and August Corbin had a deal. In sounded to me, that the deal was that Erza wouldn't have contact with the kids, but who knows. Interesting comment, though.

 

Why did you kill Joe, show. Why??

 

Another opportunity they missed - having Crane recognize some of the dead soldiers. They didn't have to be famous names, but these were people of the same regiment as Crane - he SHOULD of recognized some of them, maybe even commanded some of them - but I guess he knows everyone already on the show, so that might be overkill. In this case though, it would have logically made sense.

 

Not even sure I can watch the finale.

 

I'm gonna watch, because hell, I've watched for the last 3 years, so what's one more episode? But just really sad that my ship won't happen (most likely), even though every encounter between these two screams otherwise.

 

Like, here are comments by Zack Appelman. First, he mentioned that he and TM pitched an scene, where Crane and Joe would be drunk, and comparing literal scars they got on the battlefield, but the writers shot it down. COME ON!! Tell me that wouldn't have been an amazing and hilarious scene! *sigh*

 

Second, this:

 

“..I also think Joe ‘ships Crane and Abbie. Joe would totally dig having Crane as a brother-in-law, so maybe there could’ve been a whole fun side plot in season 4 about Joe being like, “I’m gonna make this happen. I’m gonna play matchmaker.” It’d be the romantic comedy side plot where Joe and Jenny try to come up with a scheme to get Crane and Abbie to fall in love. It’d be sort of like Much Ado About Nothing, Beatrice and Benedick. The friends have to trick them.

 

Do you have any thoughts on how you want to see Abbie and Crane’s relationship play out?

I think it’s tricky! I think they have so much chemistry, and there’s definitely a part of you that looks at them and goes, “Oh my gosh, you guys would be great together.” And I think, for me, whether or not I would want to see that happen would depend on how it was written and how it played out. But look: I think I was on the fence about it, and then for the last few episodes in the back end of the season, I’ve been watching the work that Tom is doing in those scenes, and I keep being like, “Oh my god, that guy’s in love.” Like that scene when he’s making her dinner, the Italian dinner with the candles. And then there was a scene a couple of episodes ago where they’re having a heart to heart. I see it less from Abbie to Crane, but I see it very much from Crane to Abbie. I don’t even know if he’s aware of it, but I think the guy’s head over heels. And I think Joe sees that, too … I know there was a lot of conversation about how Joe and Jenny got together so quickly and Abbie and Crane didn’t, and it’s like, well, they’re different people. Joe and Jenny are younger. I think they’re a lot more impulsive. And I also don’t think they’re mutually exclusive. I think the more love on the show, the better.’’

 

Glad you see it, Zach. Apparently the writers do not. And yes, if you had lived, you would have made an awesome brother-in-law.

[catrox14]

But this Betsy is a smug, smirky asshat to everyone, partly from the writing and partly because she's being played as if she was a teenager from the OC. I guess I feel like the shade of the real woman, who was pretty damn impressive even without sewing the flag, deserves better than having that particular thing piled on her when she was from one of the few groups who were better than that.

 

 

 

What is your take on the look she gave Abbie?

Edited April 2, 2016 by catrox14

[AD55]

Welcome aboard my crazy train (or crazy rowboat on the river Styx--whichever you prefer), there's plenty of room! ;-)

 

Re: TM in Lost in Austen, I thought he was adorkable, but my husband didn't recognize him at ALL without the beard. The voice also threw him, which tells you just how much TM brings it in that department. I've also heard him in a BBC 4Extra drama or two. Because--yes--I'm an 80-year-old trapped in a 40-something body, and a huge radio nerd.

 

I'm going to give Lost in Austen another chance. I only saw part of one episode, and TM wasn't on my radar at the time.

[Julia]

That the character is being played as a rude, unpleasant young woman who thinks she's catnip and wasn't best pleased to see another woman show up with the man she thought she had on a string. Although I think that's a lot on the actress, because she so blatantly isn't a woman of another time that I can't quite wrap my head around her reacting to anything like a woman from another time.

I hold no brief for the character. I just think the historical figure deserves better.

[HalcyonDays]

I'm going to give Lost in Austen another chance. I only saw part of one episode, and TM wasn't on my radar at the time.

 

Watch it - it's decent. TBH, Tom Mison and Tom Riley (who plays Wickham) are the best parts of the series, hands down. Mison looks/acts very different, which give you insight into how good an actor (and chameleon) he is.

 

Saw this comment on another site with regards to this episode - it make me LAUGH!

 

[catrox14]

That the character is being played as a rude, unpleasant young woman who thinks she's catnip and wasn't best pleased to see another woman show up with the man she thought she had on a string. Although I think that's a lot on the actress, because she so blatantly isn't a woman of another time that I can't quite wrap my head around her reacting to anything like a woman from another time.

I hold no brief for the character. I just think the historical figure deserves better.

 

So I guess we get either a somewhat racist, snobbish, privileged Betsy Ross or a bitchy juvenile Betsy Ross. I'd actually prefer the former because at least it would make sense to me. 

 

Busty literally just woke up and thinks it's still 1777. Prior to heading off to the Land of Nod she was busy doing war spy things with Washington. She wakes to find Ichabod and an unknown black woman. So to me I don't expect her first thought would/should jump to "Oh this woman is my competition for Ichabod".  Why would a white woman who thinks it's 1777 even consider for moment, right out of the gate that a black woman is competition for a white man? It would be highly unlikely from that time period.

 

Heh, maybe she reacted jealously because Ichabod was a philanderer so she assumes he's philandering with this new chick. I might buy that but it would really piss me off because it would be further character assassination of Ichabod.

[Yolapukka]

I think I would have liked to have seen a fling with Danny and Abbie, but not now. It irked that it was an offscreen relationship that was commenced, then finished before the new season started, but I could sort-of accept that as it gave an interesting tension to his interactions with both witnesses beyond his position as Abbie's boss. At the same time, the fact he was and is still her supervisor made picking things up again rather unethical, particularly on his part and, romantically he will always be roadkill, even if Ichabbie never becomes the ship it deserves to be. At this point, I tend to think his motivations have been contaminated by the agenda that's had him grooming, observing and reporting on her. I really don't trust him. I don't like that the show is setting up a storyline for a season four that might never happen, at the expense of things that have deeper roots and deserve payoff, especially when his story with Abbie could have been told in 3A, if it was to be told at all. If anything I thought 3A effectively established that they were firmly in the past tense, despite any lingering feelings, so to have them talking about a renewed romance just seems to come out of nowhere. I will say, I like the placement of him not learning of Abbie's battle against supernatural evil until the last few episodes. I think the pacing has often been a little off this season and this is one instance where they had good instincts and dropped it into a plot where it carried excellent weight.

[vanarnd1]

I thought there were some really good moments in this episode but it was very frustrating at the same time. The writers give us all of these meaningful Ichabbie scenes and highlight their chemistry during the episode, just to do the Betsy Ross twist at the end?  I  actually thought they did a good job  with Betsy Ross for most of this episode because I thought they were completing the character arc, but to bring her back like that at the last second is just ridiculous. They just can't help themselves in trying to put more things in the way of any chance of Ichabbie getting together. This is bad even if they had assurances for a season 4, but if the future of the show is uncertain, going this route is a slap in the face to the fans.

As for the rest of the episode I did like the Erza reveal, but the plot was kind of scattershot. Like others said there was this sudden sense of urgency with the hourglass, but Abbie & Crane were taking their time in the Catacombs and it didn't feel cohesive. Danny's integration to the team wasn't really smooth, although it will be interesting to see what happens with the reveal of the evil FBI director. I have mixed feelings about Joe dying, I thought it was well acted, but now there will be the emotional aftermath to deal with and it kind of undoes the entire season of Joe/Jenny getting together and getting closer. Plus I don't know how all of the sudden the HO could turn Joe into a monster when supposedly it had been removed from him.

I am still looking forward to the next week to see how they wrap things up, but I am not happy about having to go watch the Danny/Abbie and Ichabod/Betsy moments in what could be the last episode of the series.Even if the show is renewed, I am going to feel very ambivalent about watching another season since it seems like the writers didn't learn from Season 2 and are still insistent on teasing the fans while not actually delivering. Maybe next week will be really good and will change my mind, but TPTB are using up people's last bit of patience at the worst possible time.

[Terrafamilia]

When Crane and Abbie were going over their losses on the boat ride he mentioned his son...but not his wife. I guess Katrina really has officially become a nonperson.

 

I couldn't really tell whose portrait that was supposed to be that Crane drew in the cappuccino foam (do his talents never cease?). Frederick Douglass, Karl Marx, Che Guevara maybe? Hmmm...himself? Nah, not even close. :-P

 

I kept wanting someone to ask THO what his motivation was. Yeh, I get that he wants to scrub the world clean of humanity, but then what? I get the sense that success in this regard won't really bring him any satisfaction.

[possibilities]

Hey at least in the history of the show they've only killed of one person of color- Abbie and Jenny's mom and that was in the past. We can't say that about other shows can we?

They killed John Cho, and the other guy who was Abbie's ex early on, plus they got rid of Orlando Jones and the new police chief who came after him (no idea where she went), plus Orlando's daughter, I think? Maybe the daughter survived-- I know she was seriously tormented, but I can't remember if she died for sure. And they also killed sexy bad guy in the storage locker, just an ep or 2 ago.

[CalamityBoPeep]

When Crane and Abbie were going over their losses on the boat ride he mentioned his son...but not his wife. I guess Katrina really has officially become a nonperson.

 

I couldn't really tell whose portrait that was supposed to be that Crane drew in the cappuccino foam (do his talents never cease?). Frederick Douglass, Karl Marx, Che Guevara maybe? Hmmm...himself? Nah, not even close. :-P

 

 

I thought I heard Ichabod mention his wife, but he didn't linger over the word. She was listed before his son, so briefly that it was a bit clipped. "My wife." pause. "My soooooon." That was just my take. It was kind of dismissive, but I was still shocked to hear her mentioned at all, given that I thought we had an unspoken agreement with the new PTB that we'd never hear her referenced again. ;-) 

 

I also thought the portrait was meant to be of his own face... which I kind of loved... Abbie comes in and puts her mouth on his face.

 

Ok... I'll see myself out... ;-) LOL

[theatremouse]

My theory has always been that she was the only moderately-well-known actress they could get to NC on the cheap because her new husband, for whom absence apparently does not make the heart grow fonder, was being a vampire down the road.

 I believe it's the other way around. She was under contract with the studio and they had to find a project to dump her in.

 

When Crane and Abbie were going over their losses on the boat ride he mentioned his son...but not his wife.

I don't have it recorded anymore but I'm 98% sure I heard him say "my wife, my son". Edited April 2, 2016 by theatremouse

[blugirlami21]

I'm pretty sure he did mention her, right before he mentioned Jeremy. I didn't like Katrina but her role in Ichabod's past can't be erased. They are definitely trying to downplay it but I feel like the show is trying to throw out the baby with the bath water.

I find it very interesting that the writers think anyone cares enough about Ichabod's partnership with Betsy Ross to want to see them have a proper goodbye. Nobody cares. We just got rid of colonial times barbie Katrina. We didn't want or need another one. Especially one that is just as poorly acted as the former. It also messes up the timeline.

[LeeLeePanda]

So - when Abbie was in the catacombs, she couldn't sleep at all. But when BR goes there, she just takes a nap? Okay let's assume she was in some sort of supernatural coma - how?

I like to think this shows how much of a fighter Abbie is. She kept going and never gave up on her sanity, whereas Betsy put a blanket over her head and took a grief siesta. Then again, I can't blame Betsy. I had to laugh because that's exactly what I would have done.

Edited April 2, 2016 by LeeLeePanda

[Cyranetta]

 

Did it seem like the Ichabbie was particularly strong this ep? Not just the beginning, but many little things throughout the episode?

Definitely, and not only that, but the supposed attraction between Abby and Danny or the historic bond between Crane and Betsy Ross was markedly tepid. TM and NB sell the connection between their characters effortlessly, so the lack of emotional connection in other directions is rather noticeable.

[Yolapukka]

 

I find it very interesting that the writers think anyone cares enough about Ichabod's partnership with Betsy Ross to want to see them have a proper goodbye. Nobody cares. We just got rid of colonial times barbie Katrina. We didn't want or need another one. Especially one that is just as poorly acted as the former. It also messes up the timeline.

 

 

I don't think the show even demonstrated they had much of a partnership, it seemed more like they just wound up working a few missions together and never really saw eye-to eye. Despite dialogue to the contrary what was actually shown was they seemed to have not much in the way of partnership or personal friendship. I was not aching to see them get closure. The only truly missed opportunity was the way they ret-conned the prior reference Ichabod had made to her as a relentless annoyance he'd had to hide from, because that, would. have. been hilarious, despite or maybe even especially with Nikki Reed's inadequate performance. The only thing I really enjoyed about her part was the action sequences and that was because she mostly kept her yap  shut so it minimized her weird line-readings. However I would have preferred to see more of historical man-of-action Ichabod, than persnickety sidekick Ichabod. I feel like she ate scenes that should have belonged to him.

[Rosiejuliemom]

Saw this comment on another site with regards to this episode - it make me LAUGH!

 

 

Captain Jack understands me.

 

I love that Katrina has been mentioned twice (I think) this entire season and never once by name. Sounds like the writers are taking advice from Juno the caseworker.

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2016 by Rosiejuliemom

[rubyred]

Here's the thing I don't get. What's the big fucking deal about hooking up Ichabod and Abbie? This is a genre show predicated on a premise of a Headless Horseman, The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Moloch, Colonial covens, random demons, gods and demigods, etc. etc. and the hill they choose to die on is PLATONIC FRIENDS 4EVA!!! Doesn't this show have enough to do without taking on the burden of proving that men and women *gasp* can work together and be friends? Is that what this show was supposed to be about in Season 1? NO. And don't try to gaslight me into thinking it was.

And besides, all they had to do FROM THE BEGINNING to scotch all this shipper angst and narrative derailment was to simply make it clear that the Witnesses can't/won't/wouldn't/shouldn't be involved romantically. That's it. At any time in the last three seasons Ichabod could have simply read from a cuneiform, or Jeremy could have told them - blah, there are any number of ways they could have made it canon that the Witnesses were/are not lovers. Shippers would still have shipped, but they wouldn't feel as jerked around as they do now.

Instead they've put themselves in the situation of plopping insipid love interests in Crane's path, which not only aggravates the shippers, it takes time away from the cool stuff, like the Horseman, and the Four Horsemen, and Moloch, the End of the World, and oh, remember Andy?! I loved Andy. Really cool worldbuilding stuff is lost while Crane hems and haws in front of yet another deeply average woman, hee hee, haw haw so funny! "I know that's what I tune in for !"-- said no one, ever.

Which is pointless anyway because Mison is playing it as full-on loooove, while Beharie, true to character, remains watchful and noncommittal yet amused. And not for nothing, it would be nice for an obligatory hookup couple to actually have chemistry for a change. Wouldn't that be revolutionary?

[Sparkling Beth]

The more I think about it, the more I think that Abbie and Danny's relationship has been set up to fail.  He was spying on her and didn't tell her.  That is a much more personal betrayal than her not telling him that there are monsters in the world.  She felt guilty about not telling him sooner, but really--did she owe him anything in that regard?  If he doesn't know there are monsters, that shouldn't be Abbie's problem.  But spying on a person?  I can't help but believe that Abbie won't be able to forgive him and to that I say, "Yay! Bring on Ichabbie!"

[HalcyonDays]

I couldn't really tell whose portrait that was supposed to be that Crane drew in the cappuccino foam (do his talents never cease?). Frederick Douglass, Karl Marx, Che Guevara maybe? Hmmm...himself? Nah, not even close. :-P

 

TBH, it looks like Charles Manson.

 

 

 

I really don't know who it's supposed to be. Some elsewhere said Abbie. Whoever it is, the SFX guys need to be replaced, unless it was an actual coffee foam image done in the cappuccino.

 

Which is pointless anyway because Mison is playing it as full-on loooove, while Beharie, true to character, remains watchful and noncommittal yet amused. And not for nothing, it would be nice for an obligatory hookup couple to actually have chemistry for a change. Wouldn't that be revolutionary?

 

TBH, I always thought the writers were going to go with a slow burn. If CC's comments about expecting a season 4, then it makes sense. If there is a season 4, then that's when Ichabbie happens. I get it. I do. My problem is that we don't know for SURE there will be a S4 - so it makes it frustrating. If we all knew, then no one (okay most people) wouldn't have to feel impatient.

[theatremouse]

TBH, it looks like Charles Manson.

 

 

 

I really don't know who it's supposed to be.

When I first saw it I thought Edgar Allan Poe.

[LeeLeePanda]

When I first saw it I thought Edgar Allan Poe.

I thought it looked like Nikola Tesla,lol.

Edited April 2, 2016 by LeeLeePanda

[CooperTV]

I thought it looked like Nikola Tesla,lol.

I thought it was Fyodor Dostoyevsky.

[DJG1122]

That would be a great crossover! The Winchesters boys and the Mills sisters? That's a lot of pretty. Castiel and Ichabod would be fun together! 

I had a visual on this: Dean being his macho self with Abbie rolling her eyes, and Sam being his sensitive researcher self with Jenny rolling her eyes. Then all four kicking ass and taking names with Ichabod explaining everything to Castiel, who just looks at him  blankly.........

I thought it was Fyodor Dostoyevsky.

I thought it was Crane.

Edited April 2, 2016 by DJG1122

[catrox14]

I thought it was Crane LOL

[CooperTV]

I thought it was Crane.

Well, of course it was Crane! I just had a fleeting thought how Crane in chocolate looks like Dostoyevsky! Lol

[CalamityBoPeep]

Here's the thing I don't get. What's the big fucking deal about hooking up Ichabod and Abbie? This is a genre show predicated on a premise of a Headless Horseman, The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Moloch, Colonial covens, random demons, gods and demigods, etc. etc. and the hill they choose to die on is PLATONIC FRIENDS 4EVA!!! Doesn't this show have enough to do without taking on the burden of proving that men and women *gasp* can work together and be friends? Is that what this show was supposed to be about in Season 1? NO. And don't try to gaslight me into thinking it was.

And besides, all they had to do FROM THE BEGINNING to scotch all this shipper angst and narrative derailment was to simply make it clear that the Witnesses can't/won't/wouldn't/shouldn't be involved romantically. That's it. At any time in the last three seasons Ichabod could have simply read from a cuneiform, or Jeremy could have told them - blah, there are any number of ways they could have made it canon that the Witnesses were/are not lovers. Shippers would still have shipped, but they wouldn't feel as jerked around as they do now.

 

 

It's an interesting point. For me, my viewing started off on that non-shipping track, for sure, but when they got off the rails and brought the Wigstand out of purgatory, and started spending time so much time derailing the partnership between Ichabod and Abbie for the Epic!Romance! between Ichabod and Strugglewitch... that's when I jumped out of the "oh so much fun!" mentality and became an Ichabbie shipper. For me, it was like "look guys, if you want so badly to have a romance, at least have one with the people we actually like!" 

 

I don't mind some romance in my rollicking good tales. I very much mind having sucky romance in them. So at this point, I want them to get on with putting the two people I really enjoy together, so we can get on with the batshit crazy stuff. Let their angst be their concern for each other's welfare... "Will my partner survive this horrendously difficult and dangerous mission?"  Not "oh, here's another road-block person... does my partner really love me?"

 

So I come down on the sooner-rather-than-later side of the scale, so the ship can be established and we can get some better saving-the-world storylines. The ship will always be beautiful, even if it isn't on the front burner, just because of the people in it. I don't need it teased and retreating. TPTB started this whole thing with the Wigstand. I'd like them to work through it now, so that we don't have to have random people showing up to make it all fair. It's fair now. Let's go. I say let's lock these two in, and let them get on with saving the world together. Backing off to a platonic friendship at this point would just be asking for all hell to break loose.

[DeLurker]

When Crane and Abbie were going over their losses on the boat ride he mentioned his son...but not his wife. I guess Katrina really has officially become a nonperson.

Had on closed caption when I watched it and he said "my wife....my son".  But he said it quite quietly.

 

I don't think I have ever shipped anyone in any show, but Crane and Abbie break that streak for me.  Plenty of shows have pretty pretty people and I don't care.  TM falls into the category of being someone I know is technically attractive but does nothing for me.  Put him together with NB?  Nuclear reaction.

[vanarnd1]

And besides, all they had to do FROM THE BEGINNING to scotch all this shipper angst and narrative derailment was to simply make it clear that the Witnesses can't/won't/wouldn't/shouldn't be involved romantically. That's it. At any time in the last three seasons Ichabod could have simply read from a cuneiform, or Jeremy could have told them - blah, there are any number of ways they could have made it canon that the Witnesses were/are not lovers. Shippers would still have shipped, but they wouldn't feel as jerked around as they do now.

Instead they've put themselves in the situation of plopping insipid love interests in Crane's path, which not only aggravates the shippers, it takes time away from the cool stuff, like the Horseman, and the Four Horsemen, and Moloch, the End of the World, and oh, remember Andy?! I loved Andy. Really cool worldbuilding stuff is lost while Crane hems and haws in front of yet another deeply average woman, hee hee, haw haw so funny! "I know that's what I tune in for !"-- said no one, ever.

Which is pointless anyway because Mison is playing it as full-on loooove, while Beharie, true to character, remains watchful and noncommittal yet amused. And not for nothing, it would be nice for an obligatory hookup couple to actually have chemistry for a change. Wouldn't that be revolutionary?

IMO, I think part of it is TPTB believe in the "Moonlighting Curse", which is the idea that if you put the two lead characters in a show together, that it will cause the spark and anticipation of the relationship to go away and that fans will no longer be interested. This idea has influenced the writing in shows like "Bones" and "Castle" previously.

 

And similar to those shows, Sleepy Hollow can't afford to rule out Ichabbie completely, because at least a good portion of the fanbase is interested/invested in them getting together. So the result is TPTB being very insulting to the audience and trying to have its cake and eat it to, as in not actually putting them together, but constantly giving us "relationship-like" Ichabbie moments so we as the viewers keep watching and hoping they will become a couple even though that doesn't seem to be the plan at this point

 

And that is how we end up with Danny and Betsy Ross, who's main purpose is to get in the way of Ichabbie more than anything else IMO.  Despite how annoyed and angry a lot of people have been over choices in the last two episodes, and how many other shows have upset fans using these sort of tactics, this is pretty common for TV standards. And that is why I don't have much much faith in Campbell at his point because I think he is happy to keep stringing the fans along on this front if the show gets renewed.

[possibilities]

My view is that they are spending a lot of time on romance, instead of on the "fighting the apocalypse" and adventure teamwork, and I don't actually care if they drop the romance altogether. But if they are going to ave it, it needs to at least not interfere with the "missions" and every single romantic story they've offered us has in fact been interference-- and stupid besides. So at this point, since they're hellbent on being a romantic show, if they at least put Ichabod and Abbie together, they can stop the interference and do both instead of watering down the thing about the show that interests me in the first place.

 

I do think the chemistry between Beharie and Mison is very intense, so I'm fine with it being part of the show, but just stop the angst and the emo and the insecurity about loyalty and the loss of focus, and just get on with it, is how I feel.

 

If the intimacy they share is compatible with the missions, that's awesome. It could enhance the intensity, instead of detracting from it.

[TwistedandBored]

I enjoyed the episode until they did that whole Betsy is alive crap. Hopefully next week's episode will take care of her and we will be done with her forever. 

 

Also, this season has been soo slow. If you are going to say someone is a "God" then make sure to make them more badass than what we got. This was the weakest villain we had and it not the actor's fault. He had the present to make this character more badass. The script just failed him. I like Pandora but she really is not as strong and powerful as I hoped she would be. Both of them are weak villains. 

 

[mndpacer04]

Sigh. Everyone has said what I am feeling. Delicious food porn then...Betsy. I went from Happy to Extremely Annoyed in 45 mins.

I wasn't surprised about Joe's death because the spoiler pics hinted at it. I was tired of Jenny and Joe's boring epic love anyway. But I did like Joe and his friendship with Crane.

I guess the other posters are right, Abbie is picking something off Ichibod's jacket next week (at this point my IchAbbie optimism is gone). If Betsy dies or returns to 1776 next week, I will stayed tuned for season 4 (IF there is a season 4). However, if she lives and stays in 2016, I am done. I am not here for Katrina-light redux!

[Frozendiva]

I wasn't surprised at Betsy's return. It's been hinted at. With any luck, she will be trapped in the Catacombs and/or be unable to move 250 years forward. A woman in 1776 may have been very well shocked at Abbie - I don't think women had much of a role back then. Betsy got in with Washington and the like; others did not. Yes, some of her look and attitude may very well have been slightly racist. Black women had less of any sort of role back then as many were servants and slaves. Enter a black woman with Ichabod, who is also wearing strange garments for the 18th century.  Leather, trousers, etc. The timey-wimey, bubbly-wubbly stuff needs to be addressed.

 

The river Styx scene was beautifully filmed.

 

Didn't really invest much in Joe and Jenny. At least Papa Mills has a bit more of a reason to be involved.

 

Danny (if he doesn't get killed off) should inform Abbie that it was his job to spy on her. Can't imagine that Sophie will keep that secret, unless she is 'bumped off' so Danny gets a bit more time.

 

World domination is all well and good for the Hidden One, but with him killing off humanity, what will he do to amuse himself? It shouldn't take too long to wipe out the population. Use a bit of modern social media, etc. To enjoy having power, you need to have power over... something. An empty planet? Are there other 'gods' waiting in the wings or other catacombs? Does he plan to keep a few human slaves to worship him? Few folks will want to tend sheep and collect laurel leaves these days. Perhaps he will rightfully be dispatched to his box next week and the box buried.

[Leia1979]

Dammit, Betsy, can't you just stay dead? I was feeling pretty satisfied when Crane said he never saw her again after 1776.

 

Danny irked me more, however. No, it is not a good time to join the team. I don't care if two people here technically work for you, the new guy shouldn't be bossing everyone else around. You are not Orlando Jones. I was really hoping he'd be shady but then he came clean to Sophie. 

 

I liked the Abbie and Crane moments--the opening scene, the chess discussion--but overall, I expected a little more dramatic setup in the season's penultimate episode. It needed more urgency. Crane went from constantly reminding everyone we're running out of time to wanting to have an impromptu funeral for Betsy Ross. I know time moves differently in the catacombs but that killed the intensity.

 

And that all sounds a bit negative, but Sleepy Hollow has managed to keep my interest when I multitask through many of the other shows I watch.

 

I've also heard [Tom Mison] in a BBC 4Extra drama or two. Because--yes--I'm an 80-year-old trapped in a 40-something body, and a huge radio nerd.

Don't worry, you aren't the only one. I'll have to look for these...but first Home Front on BBC Radio 4 returns on Monday!