S02.E05: Kinbaku

[The Crazed Spruce]

A former lover arrives in Hell's Kitchen and turns Murdock's world upside down. Karen digs for the truth about the Punisher.

[Bec]

More college Matt and Foggy! Always fun.

 

I'm glad it turned out that sex scene from the trailer is a flashback. It would be weird if it happens now.

 

Speaking of weird, that first date was kind of awkward. Sorry show, I see you working hard to make it work, but still meh for me. "And the day after that, and the day after that" Gaaaah. Stop it.

 

Glad to see Marci again. Foggy sucks for not contacting her for months, though. She deserves better.

 

Quite a holy-shit moment to see the guy who killed Matt's father.

[VCRTracking]

Oh Elektra you crazy bitch!

 

I wasn't really feeling the Elodie Yung until the Boss Sweeney reveal

 

In an odd way the Elektra flashbacks made me like Matt and Karen's scenes more. The tenderness and sweetness of that first date was a nice contrast to the violent and extremely dangerous relationship with Elektra.

 

Deborah Ann Woll is soooooo pretty. I think that every episode but especially in the Indian restaurant and outside her building.

 

Jessica Jones mention! Yes!

[FurryFury]

Oh, Karen and Elektra are so textbook Betty and Veronica, it hurts. I do think both have hidden depths, though, and I can't wait to see them. Especially Elektra's, because I want to believe that the whole seductress shtick is an act. Otherwise, it would be such a bummer.

 

Loved the shout-out to JJ.

 

Also loved that Karen wore flats to her date. As a (somewhat) tall female, I get it, I've done the same when I went on dates with dudes of my height.

Edited March 19, 2016 by FurryFury

[blueray]

 

In an odd way the Elektra flashbacks made me like Matt and Karen's scenes more. The tenderness and sweetness of that first date was a nice contrast to the violent and extremely dangerous relationship with Elektra.

I liked that it showed a huge contrast to the two relationships. As it symbolizes how torn Matt is between himself and the image that he puts on as Daredevil.

[loki567]

 

Jessica Jones mention! Yes!

 

I had the same reaction with flailing hands. The Defenders is going to be fun. I'm hopeful it's not just the heroes meeting up though, but all their sidekicks as well. I want at least one scene where Foggy and Trish commiserate over drinks. 

[JessePinkman]

I love love LOVE Elektra. I know virtually nothing about her from the comics other than her stunning visual but man, if she's this cool and collected in the comics then I totally get the hype. She's SO much fun, especially since Matt is such a square. The way she gets him riled up is hilarious.

 

Karen and Matt are cute enough but they're both so dopey, it's like watching two kids play footsie. 

[Kel Varnsen]

I like the twist they made with Elektra. When they were in the house smashing stuff i thought they were doing the spoiled rich girl thing which I have seen a bunch of times. But they went crazy with the mob boss and Elektra basically getting off watching Matt beat on him. That was crazy weird.

[Danny Franks]

Well, this is Elektra as I've always imagined her. Cold, arrogant, sexy as hell, capable of being callous as she is passionate, quite possibly crazy. And violence is one of her big turn ons. Elodie Yung and the writers really nailed the character. She's already looking like a great addition to the show.

Do they use special effects to make Matt look young in the flashbacks? Because he genuinely does look younger. Perhaps it's just because he's clean shaven.

I enjoyed Karen standing up for herself when she admitted shed been in Castle's house, completed with the threat of withdrawing coffee. She's still leading journalists astray though. I really admire her drive to see the truth told. And I'm glad that we're going to get more Punisher, through the season.

I do like the prospect of her and Matt, even if I think they need to be more explicit about his feelings for her. They're cute together. Goofy and awkward, and endearing. The Indian restaurant they went to looked pretty great to me. Can't beat a good curry and naan bread. But shame on Matt, leaving the woman hanging.

The way they took him from the tranquility of that moment with Karen back into the sights and sounds and crimes of Daredevil's world was pretty sweet.

I like Marci, I have to say . She has a fun dynamic with Foggy, and adds an overt cynicism that the show sometimes needs. And she adds some depth to Foggy, simply by existing. And hey, a Jessica Jones mention! Just what I wanted. I suppose a guest appearance would be too much to ask?

[Danny Franks]

Oh, Karen and Elektra are so textbook Betty and Veronica, it hurts.

Funnily enough, that's pretty much how Will Eisner saw it when he talked about Silken Floss, the character that he created for The Spirit, and who Frank Miller openly admitted to ripping off when he created Elektra. Eisner said he never liked the girl next door, but was always more interested in the bad girl who you just knew was trouble.

Wonder which side of that Matt will ultimately fall on.

[xaxat]

I'm neutral on Karen and Matt as a couple, but it seems so odd that she goes out drinking with him. A short while ago she was concerned that he wasn't just an alcoholic, but that he was a blackout drunk who was falling down stairs.

 

Elektra was drinking Milagro Reserve at "her" apartment. She really does like her tequila.

[FurryFury]

I don't think she ever actually believed he was an alcoholic, she just let it slide until he was ready to tell her the truth.

Funnily enough, that's pretty much how Will Eisner saw it when he talked about Silken Floss, the character that he created for The Spirit, and who Frank Miller openly admitted to ripping off when he created Elektra. Eisner said he never liked the girl next door, but was always more interested in the bad girl who you just knew was trouble.

Wonder which side of that Matt will ultimately fall on.

 

Oh, this is a very, very common trope. Probably the majority of love triangles adhere to it on some level. It's just funny that here, it's so textbook, it doesn't happen that often lately.

[theatremouse]

Do they use special effects to make Matt look young in the flashbacks? Because he genuinely does look younger. Perhaps it's just because he's clean shaven.

I think it's at least partly the hair in the flashbacks. It's a dated haircut, so it's easy to accept the flashback as the past because the hair places him there.

[JustaPerson]

Plus those rectangle glasses! So 2000s. The circle ones he wears in present day make him look more mature imo. 

[JessePinkman]

Charlie Cox also has very soft features, the facial hair hides a lot.

[tennisgurl]

Another really good episode! I flailed about all excited like for the Jessica Jones references! The Defenders is going to be awesome, I am already so hyped. 

 

Elektra was all that I wanted for the character. Combination of sexy bored rich girl, badass in control action girl, with just a side of crazy. That scene where Matt almost beat the guy who had his dad killed was really intense. She looked like she was practically getting off watching him. Lady is clearly more than a little unhinged.

 

In contrast, Karen is all sweetness and nobility, trying to find out the truth about the Punisher (it was nice seeing the newspaper guy from season 1 again), and going on that super cute date with Matt. I will say, they are growing on me as a couple (although I still stand by my thoughts that they both have more chemistry with Foggy then they do with each other). They're date was a sweet, functioning contrast to the thrill seeking times with Elektra.   

[thuganomics85]

Well, so far, I'm totally on board with this Elektra.  I thought Elodie Young did a bang up job.  She just oozes sex appeal, and I love how Elektra started out as someone who was fun clearly lived life on the wild side, but then it completely went into "Holy shit, this woman is insane!" territory at the end.  The whole scene with her bringing back Sweeney to Matt could kill him and get his revenge was nuts, because Elektra truly seem to think this was normal.  She was just so flabbergasted that Matt wasn't done with killing someone in cold-blood, even if he was responsible for his father's death.  She just doesn't seem wired correctly, but I find her so entertaining already.  I can't wait to see more of her, and I really hope she crosses paths with Foggy and Karen at one point.

 

I do think the show came close to playing up Matt and Karen being awkward and almost high school-ish, in order to contrast how quickly Matt and Elektra hit it off in the flashbacks, but Charlie Cox and Deborah Ann Woll sold it enough.  I did enjoy their scene in the Indian restaurant.  And I do think it explains why NYC is beloved by many, despite being a city that can be full of crime and sometimes attacks (both in real-life and this universe, like Frank's stuff and even what happened in The Avengers.)  I thought it was a nice love letter, but not being too obvious about it.

 

Great seeing Ben's former boss again and him getting involved with Karen's quest to find the truth about what happened to Frank.  Even though it's reckless and dangerous, I still love that Karen has her own storyline and interests outside Matt and the law firm.

 

Marci!  That was a fun return!  Especially with the Jessica Jones name-dropped.  You shouldn't have left her hanging for months though, Foggy!  Not cool, man.  But, yeah, it sounds like Reyes is going to be an issue for them, so I hope Marci can help them out.

 

Why am I not surprised that Matt and Elektra had a Klingon-ish way towards sex and romance?

 

Well, I have to go ahead and watch the next episode right now after that cliffhanger!

[derriere]

Glad to see Marci again. Foggy sucks for not contacting her for months, though. She deserves better.

Every time they're together I chuckle because she's so ridiculously out of his league, bless his heart.

[Mars477]

Every time they're together I chuckle because she's so ridiculously out of his league, bless his heart.

The funny thing is that she seems more into him than the other way around.

[xaxat]

I think that's because she knows most people she associates with tend to underestimate her because of her looks. But Foggy sees through all of that and really appreciates her as a lawyer and a friend.

 

I like her. 

Edited March 21, 2016 by xaxat

[JessePinkman]

I don't think he really appreciates her all that much frankly, he thinks she's hot and useful but she's clearly more into him than he is into her. He treats her more like a very friendly acquaintance than an actual friend.

[Bec]

When Matt said "you killed my father", did anyone else just automatically fill in "prepare to die"?

 

Though we know Matt's only willing to go as far as "prepare to get pummelled".

[Dandesun]

I really, really liked this episode. It felt like something of a palate cleanser after the previous episode but, at the same time, it carried on with Matt's feelings about just flat out killing people. It continues Matt's story while introducing new aspects from his past and his attempts to move forward.

 

I also really do like Marci and Foggy. I don't know how much more of her I would like but, so far, I've enjoyed seeing her and I'm happy she's working for Jeri. I did get a charge out of hearing Jessica name dropped. That would be a very interesting meeting.

[feverfew]

Oh, Karen and Elektra are so textbook Betty and Veronica, it hurts. I do think both have hidden depths, though, and I can't wait to see them. Especially Elektra's, because I want to believe that the whole seductress shtick is an act. Otherwise, it would be such a bummer.

It was so textbook I got annoyed! Why can the men be allowed to be flawed and interesting and crazy and sympathetic, while the women has to be either goofy-good or crazy-seductress-evil? I've been warming up to Karen these last few episodes, after not liking her very much in season one, but this dichotomy made me mad as hell. Made me almost dislike Karen again, just out of spite. I had high hopes for an interesting Electra, since they did such a good job on the women on Jessica Jones, but the whole getting-aroused-while-watching-Matt-beat-up-a-guy is such a Frank Miller stable. I'm disappointed.

[FurryFury]

Actually, this was the only episode it was that obvious, so don't fret. Karen has a great arc this season, imo, and Elektra has her own stuff, too.

[benteen]

Younger Matt actually looks quite a bit like pre-Captain America Steve Rogers.  In the face and with the hair I mean.

 

I really enjoyed the Matt and Elektra flashbacks.  Definitely didn't expect that to be the home of Sweeney.

 

Jessica Jones name-drop!

[feverfew]

Actually, this was the only episode it was that obvious, so don't fret. Karen has a great arc this season, imo, and Elektra has her own stuff, too.

Thanks, FurryFurry! You're right, and I shouldn't have been so quick to judge. Off to see the last few episodes, then :)

[Primetimer]

An edgy blast from Matt's past is likely to blast his present.

Read the story

[AudienceofOne]

It was so textbook I got annoyed! Why can the men be allowed to be flawed and interesting and crazy and sympathetic, while the women has to be either goofy-good or crazy-seductress-evil? I've been warming up to Karen these last few episodes, after not liking her very much in season one, but this dichotomy made me mad as hell. Made me almost dislike Karen again, just out of spite. I had high hopes for an interesting Electra, since they did such a good job on the women on Jessica Jones, but the whole getting-aroused-while-watching-Matt-beat-up-a-guy is such a Frank Miller stable. I'm disappointed.

Yep. I hated this episode. Oh look, let's see the hero deal with his crazy ex while trying to reinvent himself with the "nice girl". Karen deserved better than that and the audience did too. This episode was endless and tedious and I am glad it's over. Let's hope Elektra disappears next epsiode.

[AKA...CJ86]

Slowly making it through the series and loving Elektra so far...

 

...seeing Matt and Elektra spar in the gym/ring...all I could think...this is what the 2003 DD film thought they were giving with the playful sparring...

 

Really liking and shipping Matt and Karen...those two goofy kids on and their goofy date...

[Bec]

It was frightening yet kind of hilarious that young Elektra was using young Matt as a cutting board (gives new meaning to "washboard abs" and "you can grate cheese on those abs"). Do you really need to use such a gigantic knife to cut a bit of cheese? Then he lets her feed him a bit off cheese off the tip of that gigantic knife. I guess that whole thing was to show us how much he trusted her.

[Kalliste]

No one is going to mention the terrible sex scene where they appeared to still be wearing pants and there was a slow motion hair flip? I liked the introduction of Elektra but didn't really get interested in this episode. It (and much of this season to date) just seemed so slow. I liked the Punisher stuff but I'm not feeling this season anywhere near as much as the first.

 

I will endeavour though and hope for the best.

[Dizzychickstar]

Karen's not exactly painted with a broad good girl brush. She's one who believes the ends justify the means, tho I don't think she'd admit that readily. She has broken into homes, lied to Ben, and shot someone(tho in self defense). She might look like the good girl, but there's more going on there. And when she's not giddy, she has her dark and depressed moments for sure. She's not all sunshine and sprinkles. Those two have quite a bit in common imo.

[Shriekingeel]

So much idiot-plot and “Let’s keep secrets from the people we’re closest to, what could go wrong?” in this episode. And I despise this shallow, sadistic Elektra. 

 By far the weakest episode yet.