S02.E05: Rebecca

[ElDosEquis]

There are different dialects of Spanish - my mother spoke Castilian Spanish (family was from Spain, came to Cuba before coming to the US). Her Spanish was like textbook Spanish - like listening to those perfect language learning tapes. Spanish spoke byMexicans frequently has some different words  (i.e. turkey in Spanish is "pavo" but I learned it as "guajolote" pronounced wa-ha-low-tay in school in Southern California) because of the Aztec influence. 

 

I think everything is slowly simmering but will be coming to a head very soon. 

 

And the BOOOOOTTSSS!!! I had to back my DVR up about five times and freeze frame on the BOOTS! 

 

Margolis does a great job of doing the 'Mexican' Spanish - he has the cadence of someone doing a translation on the fly and thinking very carefully about what he wants to say and how he wants to say it.

[Umbelina]

My responses in italics. 

I'm not sure how two people experiencing a scene differently equals a fail.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but that would imply that the show has one way it intends you to view things. And that is pretty much the opposite of how Vince Gilligan expects people to watch his show.  Whenever he's interviewed and he's asked an opinion, 99% of the time he gives his opinion on how he sees it but also acknowledges that this show is out of his control once it airs and that how a fan experiences it is as equally valid as to how he experiences it. 

 

True, I hope more people who never saw Hector's character on BB chime in, my interest was that I, who did see BB and already know Hector was so very different from someone who only knows him from BCS, and saw none of the menace and tension which I felt so strongly.  That's what I mean by a fail, you can't live forever off BB.  You need to bring it on this show too.

 

I got on the "Walter White is not sympathetic" bandwagon pretty early on.  A lot of people took a lot longer (and some never) to see him that same way.  it doesn't mean Breaking Bad failed with Walter White.

 

I think there is a misunderstanding.  I don't need or want characters to be sympathetic, I just need them to be more than plot points, something that moves action for other, developed characters, Chuck, a little bit Kim, and of course, Jimmy.

 

It was nice to see Tio.  I didn't feel the diner scene was super intense, probably because I know how much of a badass Mike is.  I don't think the fact that I didn't experience the tension as much as others means the show failed in its telling or I failed in my viewing.  There's plenty of time for me to feel tension depending on how the show employs the Salamancas in the future. 

 

I loved it too and I really want to know how more non BB watchers felt about it.  So if you are out there, please chime in!  I can't judge it properly in an isolated BCS world, since I was too deep in it in BB.  I thought it was super tense, and Mike was scared at the end of it, something that shocked me.  Mike never acts scared.  It was so cool.

 

Take Howard, for example, I know you couldn't care less about him and that's valid.  But for me, I think we know quite a bit about him for the amount of airtime he has received. I wish I knew more of about him because he kind of fascinates me but that doesn't mean the time I have spent with him feels like a waste.  Last season he seemed like the one in control keeping Jimmy away.  Then we found out that it wasn't him but rather Chuck.  And then in this episode a lot of us suspected Jimmy was right and it was Chuck keeping Kim in doc review only to find out that it was Howard.  I would love to know the story there. 

 

I want to care about him, he's taking up too much screen time to have no life, other than to fuck up Jimmy's or Kim's life or play toady for Chuck.  I WANT BCS to "get SLOW" with him.  Show him having a drink after work, or a one night stand making breakfast for him, or that he's a slob at home.  Give me something, ANYTHING really, about this man other than just how he impacts characters who apparently "count."

Edited March 16, 2016 by Umbelina

[ElDosEquis]

I think if the only thing you know is that Hector is a family member of the very volatile and violent Tuco, and that Hector found where Mike has breakfast, you would probably realize Mike has a big problem on his hands here.  Mike's big concern is Kaylee and Stacy's safety, and now these criminals have been watching him.  Pretty worrisome. 

 Actually Mike has Tio over a barrel.

 

If Mike declines the offer, Tuco stays in. If Tio moves against Mike for declining the offer, Tuco stays in.

 

Mike just has to go to Tio and tell him how things are going to work out - He gets Tuco out and they work out a gentleman's agreement that keeps Tuco off Mike's cloud.

[Bannon]

This is absolutely true, though now clients are also not paying for Big Law associates to do document review -- they use technology-assisted review or hire contract attorneys for about $35/hour.  (I will also say that I don't blame clients for refusing to foot the law firm's HVAC bills.  They're already paying hundreds of dollars per attorney per hour.  Climate control is a cost of doing business, and that firms were once passing their utility costs through to clients for after-hours work is just insane to me.  I have worked many a climate-control-less weekend/evening at a Big Law firm, and it's miserable, but I put that on the firm.)

 

If I had a quarter for every associate who grumbled to me that they didn't go to law school to do document review, I'd have a vacation home by now.

HA! It reminds me of someone who becomes an accountant, and them complains about having to do audits. How do you go through law school without ever grasping what it means to practice law? Did they all think they were going to be Erin Brockovich, and not the real one, but the one who looks like Julia Roberts?

 

I'm not a lawyer, but I have more than a few as customers. I remember one who was retired from practice. She graduated from an Ivy league school, with classmates who are extremely famous Ivy League school graduates, When she first became my customer, she was really much younger, than someone with her level of success in the profession, than who you would expect to have the status of retired. Yeah, she had plenty of money, but in my experience people just don't retire at a pretty young age once they get to that rareified level The questions I was asking of her kind of were probing around at whether the retired status was likely to last. She told me "I will never go back, and I wish I had taken a different career path. I could have been successful at a lot of things that didn't entail spending huge chunks of my life in a windowless room, with cardboard boxes, filled with documents, stacked head high."

[Dev F]

Good catch.  This may be the time that Mike decides half-measures are for people with death wishes.

 

Of course, if that's the case then Mike's speech to Walt in "Half Measures" rings a little false. Basically, Mike tells Walt, "You shouldn't try a half measure like trying to get Jesse arrested to get him off the street and out of danger from the cartel, because one time back when I was a cop I tried a half measure to deal with a domestic violence suspect, and later he killed his wife." Wouldn't a more apropos message be "You shouldn't try to get Jesse arrested to save him from the cartel, because one time I also tried to get a guy arrested to solve a problem and this same cartel totally fucked me"? Seems like a much more natural thing to bring up given the precisely congruent circumstances.

 

That's really about it, for a character that's been on the show from the beginning.  There is no real person there, we see him do pivotal things, suing Jimmy, firing Jimmy, catering to Chuck, punishing Kim, but there is absolutely no insight as to who this guy is?  WHY?  Instead of an endless phone montage for Kim, can't we spend a few minutes getting to know this guy?  Who does he fuck?  What does his house or apartment look like?  Does he have kids, a drinking problem, make model airplanes, collect guns, write novels on the side, did he cheat on his bar exam, does he have siblings, parents, and ex wife, is he deeply in debt, have health issues, or is he lonely, had his heart broken, or etc. etc. etc.

 

Because then it becomes Howard's story, not Kim's. Since Kim is the central character in this episode, and she herself doesn't understand why Howard has it out for her, I think it makes sense dramatically speaking for the audience to be confused about it as well.

 

Imagine if we'd found out in episode 2 of last season that Chuck didn't approve of his brother being a lawyer and was working behind his back to thwart him, but Jimmy still didn't find out until episode 9. We'd spend the whole season one step ahead of the main character; every time he expressed admiration for his big brother, we'd feel like he was being played for a sucker. And when he finally learned the truth, the moment wouldn't be the same punch in the stomach for us as it was for Jimmy, because we would've known it was coming for seven episode. In short, the main arc of last season wouldn't have been anywhere near as effective.

 

The same thing would happen, I think, if the writers put us one step ahead of Kim this season. I'm sure we'll find out what Howard's deal is eventually -- but probably not until Kim does.

[Lurky McLurkerson]

HA! It reminds me of someone who becomes an accountant, and them complains about having to do audits. How do you go through law school without ever grasping what it means to practice law? Did they all think they were going to be Erin Brockovich, and not the real one, but the one who looks like Julia Roberts?

Honestly, I find that law school really does not prepare lawyers for actual practice at all.  There are some that are starting to add practicum and practical classes, but not the Almighty Tier 1 schools that Big Law loves.  This is also why the ABA's restrictions on distance education that we've discussed re Jimmy's correspondence course with UAS is dumb -- it's all very theoretical/ivory-tower-y.  Personally, I think the entire third year should be replaced with a practicum, courses in rainmaking, project management, people management, and other things actually useful.  (I strongly recommend that people take a couple years off and go work in a legal environment in which they'd like to practice before going to law school because it ain't Law & Order.)

 

So, I get people like the associate who insisted that we did not have to file the "Motion for X" along with the "Memorandum in Support of Motion for X" -- and, god help me, I TRIED to tell them that we really needed a motion before the partner came to sign it and was told that they were the lawyer and they had "read" the rules and didn't need the motion.  Once they started insinuating I was stupid, I just let them go and prepped it myself for when the partner came to sign the documents and immediately asked, "Where's the motion?" (Don't look at me, man, I tried to keep you from looking like an idiot.)

 

True story... I once narrowly avoided being sent on a document review where the materials couldn't leave the client's site, and they had to clear the snakes out of the warehouse before the team could get in there to review.  Thank you, but I do NOT do snakes.

 

Now, document review is done almost entirely on computers, until you get to the important documents, and the partners insist on paper copies.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Lurky McLurkerson

[shapeshifter]

I read that BB was set in 2008, and that Better Call Saul was set 6 years earlier. If so, man does Tio Hector fall apart fast. He was so spry in this episode. I know that strokes can be very debilitating, but man....

To fall so far so fast explains the inner rage we saw in BrBa in Tio.

It's the classic Prodigal Son parable.  Boy, do I relate!  And yes, Chuck is every bit as "wrong" for his refusal to let go of his anger as Jimmy is to con folks.  Each man pays a severe price for his choices.

Excellent point. Who would you say is in the role of father/God in the show? Vince Gilligan and the writers, perhaps?

What I don't get is, just what IS Howard's problem with Kim? I don't think it can be just the video.

IIRC, Howard supported Kim in the firm, including getting her tuition paid. So Kim's "failure" in supporting Jimmy reflects poorly on Howard--at least in his own mind, and perhaps in the mind of someone else to whom Howard answers--maybe a big client or two who may have seen the video. I vote for it being a pecking order like I have had the unfortunate experience of being on the low end of at my job.

[Knuckles]

"I appreciated being shown for certain that it was Howard (Barzini) all along."

 

Thank you for this. Howard's animus towards Kim could be based on many things...he hit on her in the past and was turned down, perhaps, and seeing that a guy like Jimmy attracts her, riles him. Chuck's raging jealousy towards Jimmy expands outward to any friends of Jimmy...even firm rainmakers. So, you have Howard and Chuck equally on page in punishing Kim in lieu of going after Jimmy. Nice work boys.

 

And Mike does not have Tio over a barrel...you forget that if can get background on Mike so easily in a fairly small city like ABQ, he will find Kaylie soon enough.

And Mike can smell a ruthless predator. No, it's not for himself that Mike is worried, it's for his beloved granddaughter.

[Tim Thomason]

If Hector moves against Mike for declining the offer, then yeah, Tuco would still be in prison for a five-to-ten year stretch. But Mike and/or his family is still killed. Not exactly a winnng situation for Mike. And I'm sure Hector would'nt bat an eye avenging his imprisoned nephew.

[RCharter]

 

ETA

But the other new character, Erin, has no dimensions at all, a fault of the writing, or is it the actress' inability to imbue scenes with subtly or dimension?  Or is it because these writers have trouble writing complex women?  Whatever it is, she had a lot of scenes, and for me?  Did nothing with them, other than the bot effect of someone who follows the rules and blah blah.  YES, I get that people like her exist, but that doesn't make them interesting.  Another "prop" rather than interesting new character, and to me that is a shame.  If she just had a couple of moments of something that played against the very very very obvious new lawyer, anything!  A run in her pantyhose!  A slight gasp!  A tiny smile about the bribing before stepping in.  A stumble while trailing Jimmy through the office.  Give me a whole human being PLEASE, let her fix her lipstick while Jimmy was in the bathroom, and let that actress MAKE something of that moment.

 

Erin isn't interesting now, but I think putting her with Jimmy gives her character the potential to become interesting.  They are both pretty far on their side of the spectrum, so who will end up bending or influencing the other?  I don't think there is any way they stick Jimmy with the Pixie Ninja and he they don't run into a problem where she is faced with a very grey ethical dilemma.  The sort of thing where the ends are super important, but the means are unethical.  I think she has a lot of potential, and so I hope they keep her on and build her as a character.

 

When she faces that dilemma, if she does, it will only be interesting because she is such a type A rule follower.  And how those potential interactions color her world view.  From all that I've seen of the world, people like her, the type A perfectionist doesn't always bend, but they often break when things aren't black and white.  

 

I do like that they didn't have her as chipper and perfect after Jimmy ran out on her and that she didn't buy his BS story about GERD.  That makes me think there is something more under there.

 

Well, it is incredibly stupid to have someone in document review, when they have the ability (and lemme tell ya', it is incredibly rare) and non-stop drive, to get on the telephone, and produce millions of dollars. You don't have neurosurgeons trimming the hedges in front of the hospital. It's potentially a hole in the writing (and I really see where Umbelina is coming from with her misgivings about the Howard character) if they don't adequately explain why Howard is behaving like an incredible dunce. His first remark should have been, as the new clients drove away, and she suggested the follow up strategy, "Yes, of course, we will want you maintain some contact for continuity's sake, but I also want you put together a presentation on marketing, so we can get some sense of how you are going to do this again".  Howard is a partner in a blue-chip law firm. Nothing is more important than getting blue chip clients on retainer. 

Superficially what you say makes sense, and would make sense in a lot of industries.

 

I don't think biglaw is one of those professions.  IMO, Howard is generally the guy that does all the client facing stuff, he takes the meetings, he smooths things over, he is the face of the firm.  He is the one taking clients to lunch, or going to the golf game with a client.  I highly doubt Howard does any sort of real legal work, or legal strategics.  I'm sure that is left to Chuck.  Chuck is the rules guy, the brains, the one who can think up a RICO angle to get you into federal court, and the pros and cons of being in the federal system versus the state system, etc etc.  Having Kim as the face that new clients interface with makes Howard obsolete.  And frankly, I think firms don't really want an associate heavily involved in getting new business unless they are on partner track.  The last thing you want is for someone to leave your firm and take all their business with them because the client is more comfortable with the associate that is leaving the firm.

 

Now, just like with Davis and Main, HHM isn't going to turn away business no matter how it gets to them.  But it doesn't mean that they are going to abandon their long held traditions either.  However, I think even in a traditional law firm setting up this meeting would be a feather in an associates cap, and something to discuss when thinking about who you're going to put on partner track but its not going to be something that is going to be the be all end all.

[Umbelina]

Yes, but that is such a predictable thing for Erin to eventually do.  Once again, she's not there to be a complete person, just to be a plot point to propel Jimmy forward.

 

I have a feeling I'm just not saying it well.  What I'm missing is the humanizing elements that make the characters whole, yes, even the smaller characters.  Vince can do whatever he wants with them, but that doesn't preclude him making them complex.  This is especially true when, as we all know, this show likes to be slow and let things breathe.

 

I just think they are letting the wrong things breathe, and it's just a basic of any good story to believe in the people IN the story, and tiny little subtle things can make that happen, it doesn't take a lot of time, what it takes is a lot of skill, on both the writers and actors' part.  I can think of hundreds of short little scenes that could make these people human beings, instead of just plot devices.  With even a few moments, they could accomplish that.

 

Off the top of my head, and I am not even going to pretend to have the kind of skill that writing team has, but this just illustrates what I'm trying (and apparently failing) to say.

 

They could have:

 

Shown Erin at home getting her suit of armor on to go to work, maybe late, rushing around, hair sticking up, grabbing the wrong shoes, tripping over her cat (or messy bedroom, can't find her phone, whatever...)  having one of those mornings, and as she rushes into the office she spots toothpaste on her scarf, whips it off, smooths her hair, and walks in to the door, transformed into the bot we saw on the show, all order and efficiency. 

 

Alternately, we quickly see her in afterglow from morning sex, we don't even have to see the guys' face, but there is an empty Cold Duck bottle by the bed, and she grabs some aspirin and stumbles through the unfamiliar and crappy apartment, downs a glass of OJ, while rushing to get dressed, obviously about to do the walk of shame because she's not in business attire, "Hey, Molly, leave your number!"  She rolls her eyes and gets out of there.  Next scene, Erin, in all her uptight, rule following glory.

 

It doesn't take much to tell us just a little bit about who they are.  With Howard?  Hell, that kind of thing should have happened in the first season.  With him it's worse, because he is on screen so very much.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Umbelina

[knaankos]

No those Erin scenes would have been horrible. Especially the sex one. she's just simply not that important yet. It was her first episode. Why would she deserve scenes like that when numerous other characters haven't had them yet? What about Saul's assistant who helped him move in when he first arrived? We know nothing about him. Should we see one of his sex scenes too?

If Erin is to become a larger character then she will warrant a scene or two like that. But right now all we know is that she's a hardened rule follower. Why do we have to know more about her right now?

Plus if she's being used as a plot point it's certainly not the first time. "Ken Wins" has now appeared on BB and BCS both times as purely character development moments for the main characters. He's not a breathing character. And I feel that is ok. We don't need a scene of Ken Wins eating peanut butter toast at his house for breakfast.

Edited March 16, 2016 by knaankos

[Blakeston]

They may reveal that Howard has a secret reason for wanting to keep Kim down, but I don't think it has anything to do with her turning him down romantically or sexually. Kim seems mystified by his behavior. And if he'd started acting this way after making unsuccessful advances toward her (or even being flirty with her) she's savvy enough to understand exactly what was going on.

 

And I'm not ruling out the possibility that he's acting this way for the reason that was suggested on the show - Jimmy is making Howard look bad, and Howard is utterly humiliated because he feels like he was taken in by a con man, and Kim's presence is a constant reminder of that. And it's easier to pretend that it's all her fault than to blame himself.

 

And Mike does not have Tio over a barrel...you forget that if can get background on Mike so easily in a fairly small city like ABQ, he will find Kaylie soon enough.

And Mike can smell a ruthless predator. No, it's not for himself that Mike is worried, it's for his beloved granddaughter.

 

What Hector doesn't know is that Mike will be over a barrel even if he helps Tuco get out of prison, because Nacho will be furious.

[RCharter]

Yes, but that is such a predictable thing for Erin to eventually do.  Once again, she's not there to be a complete person, just to be a plot point to propel Jimmy forward.

 

I have a feeling I'm just not saying it well.  What I'm missing is the humanizing elements that make the characters whole, yes, even the smaller characters.  Vince can do whatever he wants with them, but that doesn't preclude him making them complex.  This is especially true when, as we all know, this show likes to be slow and let things breathe.

 

I just think they are letting the wrong things breathe, and it's just a basic of any good story to believe in the people IN the story, and tiny little subtle things can make that happen, it doesn't take a lot of time, what it takes is a lot of skill, on both the writers and actors' part.  I can think of hundreds of short little scenes that could make these people human beings, instead of just plot devices.  With even a few moments, they could accomplish that.

 

Off the top of my head, and I am not even going to pretend to have the kind of skill that writing team has, but this just illustrates what I'm trying (and apparently failing) to say.

 

They could have:

 

Shown Erin at home getting her suit of armor on to go to work, maybe late, rushing around, hair sticking up, grabbing the wrong shoes, tripping over her cat (or messy bedroom, can't find her phone, whatever...)  having one of those mornings, and as she rushes into the office she spots toothpaste on her scarf, whips it off, smooths her hair, and walks in to the door, transformed into the bot we saw on the show, all order and efficiency. 

 

Alternately, we quickly see her in afterglow from morning sex, we don't even have to see the guys' face, but there is an empty Cold Duck bottle by the bed, and she grabs some aspirin and stumbles through the unfamiliar and crappy apartment, downs a glass of OJ, while rushing to get dressed, obviously about to do the walk of shame because she's not in business attire, "Hey, Molly, leave your number!"  She rolls her eyes and gets out of there.  Next scene, Erin, in all her uptight, rule following glory.

 

It doesn't take much to tell us just a little bit about who they are.  With Howard?  Hell, that kind of thing should have happened in the first season.  With him it's worse, because he is on screen so very much.

 

For me, Erin's flash of humanity was with Jimmy the next day when he tried to pull him "slippin' Jimmy has the GERD" on her and all her Pixie perkiness was dropped in an instant.  To me, that let me know that something was there "are we going to do this or not".....and in that voice......made her more interesting to me and let me think there is something more there.

 

And not for nothing, but I think there is this desire to make every character a deep person whose personal life is at odds with who they are at work (Erin is a mess at home, she has a complicated/superficial sex life driven by some sort of inner demon).  But in reality, she could just be a person whose entire existence is in line with her character and what makes her interesting is how she grows from her relationship with Jimmy. 

 

I agree that she either of the scenes you wrote would be interesting, but I also think its interesting to see how someone who is that super type A, rules driven personality is affected by someone like Jimmy.  When I think of Breaking Bad, the most interesting part was how Walts situation changed him, and thats what would interest me about someone like Erin too.  I think it would be cool if it happened, I guess I wouldn't cry if it didn't, but I think we know that Pixie Ninja isn't going to really change jimmy, but there is a good chance Jimmy is going to have an impact on Pixie Ninja (damn, another great nickname....Playah, and now Pixie Ninja!)

[Umbelina]

We have never seen Howard outside of a work setting, not once.  We have no clue who he is outside of work.  Zip.  I have no idea where the man lives, or if he has children, or a girlfriend, or an ex wife, or gambles on the side, or loved or hated his mother, or has siblings, or is a secret slob, or a neat freak, has a pet, or secretly wants to be a novelist.   No clue.  He's been on the show since it began.

 

The Erin examples are only because she had a lot of airtime during this episode, and I don't care what the scene was, I threw out two ideas only as examples to give the woman more than one dimension.  I would have settled for a run in her pantyhose, or being rude, or nice, or whatever to a cab driver.  Just give me anything personal about these people, some little tidbit that shows me who they are inside, a poster of Tahiti and travel brochures, whatever.

 

Plot points don't interest me, and so far, that's all anyone who wasn't on BB and thus has an established background has been, other than Chuck, and Kim. 

 

Think about it for a minute.  How wonderfully rich was seeing Nacho's dad at work?  Seeing Mike's new upholstery made me remember him and smile a week later.  Then again, Nacho is another BB character.  The scene with Rebecca was an exception, we DID get a glimpse of the real person there, and that's why she interests me.

 

At this point it's wheel-spinning with Chuck.  I damn sure hope the payoff is more than "This is what drove Jimmy to become Saul!" because if there isn't more to it, then hello, we got it.  There is slow, there is slow burn, and then there is just beating a dead horse, and we are rapidly approaching that territory now. 

 

I mean I get that Jimmy is somehow going to ruin Chuck's marriage, kill her while driving drunk, or lure her to the dark side somehow, but when you know something is going to happen, it's just not that interesting.  I get that one-sided Erin and Jimmy will come to some kind of clash over ethics or tattling, but if I don't know her, why do I care?  Again, just a plot point to move Jimmy from here to there is lame writing.  Kim and Jimmy will split up, the only real question is, will he marry her first, to be one of the 2 wives? 

 

I get that it's a tricky show to write, since we know what happens to Jimmy, but these writers are capable of doing it, keeping the characters whole and interesting, as well as writing compelling story.  I really hope, that as someone said earlier, all of this will pay off in wonderful ways.  Right now though, I'm finding it frustrating, and I really want to like BCS characters, not just get excited when the BB gang shows up.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Umbelina

[Captanne]

I totally agree that Howard is one of the weakestly drawn "villains" I've seen in a long time and I'm frustrated with Kim's "I need this job" so she suffers in the basement making coffee for cliche jerks.  I'm getting so frustrated I used the word twice.

 

But, I don't see where we're getting the idea something happens to Rebecca?  Did I miss a line or a scene somewhere?  We just met her and there weren't any ominous strings or dun-dun-duns that I heard or saw.  As a matter of fact, I felt she was a non-event given they named the whole episode after her.  Perhaps it's just that they go on a joy ride and sleep together?  Clearly, Chuck and Rebecca's love life is failing -- that was made abundantly clear.  I didn't miss that point.  

[RCharter]

Umbelina -- I see your point, but there may not be much more to Erin right now than who she is at work.  I feel like a lot of shows try to make a point that a character puts on a mask for the rest of the world, but is somehow different in their personal life....to the point where its almost novel to suggest that a character may be the exact same at work and in their personal life.  A run in her pantyhose, or seeing her messy apartment/sex life would have seemed a little cliche to me.  There are some people in life that just aren't that complex, or they don't start out that complex, but life changes them.  It doesn't make them any less real to me.  But we'll see, perhaps the writers have a plan more in line with what you're thinking.  I would be a little disappointed, because it seems a little cliche, but it wouldn't ruin the series for me in any way.

 

But seeing how a situation changes her character and makes her "grey" would be interesting to me.  I think that has always been what the characters on this show are about.....no one is just an absolute 100% asshole villain, and no one is 100% angelically perfect.  We all love slippin' Jimmy, but now we find out he might have embezzled money from his father's business.  And whether he did or not, it cast Chuck (for me) in a more sympathetic light and less mustache twirling asshole.

 

Like I said, I think you wanted that run in the pantyhose moment, but my run in the pantyhose moment was when she dropped her perkiness and let Jimmy know that she is not buying what slippin' Jimmy is selling.   To me that showed a little grit beyond her insistent perkiness.  The young woman who is probably used to everyone silently rolling their eyes at her or not getting invited to lunch because she would spend all of lunch clucking at you about rules and what not.  It was the response of a girl who is used to finding out about happy hours after they happened.

 

As for Nacho's dad, I loved that scene, but that really didn't tell me much more about Nacho other than his family seems like nice people who don't know what he does for a living.  It didn't reveal anything about Nacho per se, or give me any greater insight into who he was as a person.  But his father was very sweet and I hope to see him again.

Edited March 16, 2016 by RCharter

[Bryce Lynch]

They may reveal that Howard has a secret reason for wanting to keep Kim down, but I don't think it has anything to do with her turning him down romantically or sexually. Kim seems mystified by his behavior. And if he'd started acting this way after making unsuccessful advances toward her (or even being flirty with her) she's savvy enough to understand exactly what was going on.

And I'm not ruling out the possibility that he's acting this way for the reason that was suggested on the show - Jimmy is making Howard look bad, and Howard is utterly humiliated because he feels like he was taken in by a con man, and Kim's presence is a constant reminder of that. And it's easier to pretend that it's all her fault than to blame himself.

What Hector doesn't know is that Mike will be over a barrel even if he helps Tuco get out of prison, because Nacho will be furious.

If I am Mike I would much rather deal with a furious Nacho than a furious Hector.

My guess is Mike makes a counter proposal for him to do some security work for the cartel

[Tikichick]

For me the episode was further confirmation that Chuck's been pulling all the strings -- we simply found out that it goes back decades.  Howard is being forced to keep Kim in doc review, probably faces the prospect of having to buy Chuck out of the firm if he doesn't play bad cop per Chuck's orders.  Of course the truth is Chuck will never give up his grip on HHM, same as he won't on Jimmy.  I think Chuck set up Jimmy for the missing money from their father's grocery store as well.

 

ETA:  I don't think Jimmy suspects even a little bit that Chuck set him up to look like a thief to their father.  No way I think Jimmy did anything to bust up Chuck's marriage either.  I suspect Chuck was completely unhinged when Rebecca didn't fall in line with Chuck's attitude about Jimmy and kept trying to push her into reacting to Jimmy the way he wanted her to and that eventually led to the relationship unspooling all the way around.  Chuck likes to play puppetmaster and attempts to manipulate everyone around him into the role he wants them to play, with him controlling the strings.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Tikichick

[Tatum]

I actually didn't mind Kim's montage of cold calls. On top of showing the viewers how much drive she has, and how important this job is to her, I thought we gleaned one or two interesting things from listening to her end of the conversations. I had always imagined Kim as pretty aloof and standoffish, where she's pretty much married to her work, and has no social life. But she had a LOT of people on her post its, and most of the time she referenced getting drinks a month prior or some kind of networking event, so she actually does socialize outside of the office (albeit only in legal circles), and appears that she's pretty friendly to people.

 

It's one thing for Howard to punish Kim by sticking her in doc review for a few weeks/months, but to actually shut her out on a client she brought in personally, just seems like really bad business. Doesn't he think his client might want to see Kim heading this, as she is the reason they are there? And, as mentioned here, doesn't set a very good example when someone can spend hours smiling and dialing, land a major contract, and still get freezed out. But I think Howard knows that. I think he wanted one final kick in the teeth for Kim, and then the near future he would tell her he changed his mind. His conversation with Chuck seemed to indicate (to me at least) her banishment to doc review was nearing the end. And that's before Chuck agreed to step in and grease the wheels.

 

As far as why Howard is so hard on Kim, I don't think it's sour grapes over being rejected romantically, and I don't think he dislikes her. I think Howard sees a lot of talent in Kim, but he wants someone who is "all in". I think he is trying to show her just how unpleasant her work life can be if she puts ANYTHING ahead of job, or her company, but not make it so unpleasant that she just throws up her hands and leaves. He's kind of towing that line though by keeping her in doc review indefinitely even after she lands a major client, so I bet he'll ease up soon. What I think he DOESN'T want is for Kim to feel like she can just do what she wants, then land a major coup and be saved from any negative consequences. What I am saying is, he wants to figuratively beat any potential "Jimmy ethics" out of her.

[nodorothyparker]

I think we very well may still get something about Howard down the line.  Right now, yeah, what we know about him is a little thin.  We know that his father started the firm with Chuck and he's all about upholding every last specific of that legacy to the point that he copyrighted the particular shade of blue associated with the firm.   He's extremely deferential to Chuck, maybe because of what it would cost the firm if Chuck were to finally take his ball and go home or maybe for yet unknown reasons, so much so that he doesn't mind looking like the bad guy for him.  Whether you see him as the mostly genial, well heeled and soft-spoken guy or an asshole bearing a grudge depends entirely on your viewpoint in relation to other characters.

 

We all have our guesses as to what his deal is with Kim.  Right now, I'm inclined to think there's probably a fair element of truth to Chuck's saying that he's angry he went to bat for Jimmy at her prodding.  He's a guy who takes reputation very seriously and probably doesn't appreciate looking like an idiot who was also taken in by Jimmy.  There could still be more to it than that or it could just be a matter of Howard wanting to grind in the message in a way she's likely to never forget:  Don't let your judgment be called into question ever again and more importantly, don't let mine.

[nachomama]

Ok the firm is named HHM, Hamlin, Hamlin and McGill. So if Howard is a junior, might that attribute what has crawled up his butt? Maybe he's more of a Jimmy? He would like to have fun, maybe doesn't even want to be a lawyer but this is the family business? Daddy and Chuck started the firm? I do think he's sweet on Kim, I did think in the first season they had a thing going on. 

 

I think there's something more up with Chuck's story. I'm perilously close to being able to equate Chuck and Jimmy to me and my sister because we had a paper route when we were 9-10 and she snuck in and took $10 here or $20 there and when my mom would count the money she deducted $5 from both of us but we all knew I was not the one sneaking the cash. But that story makes me the Chuck, HA!

[SignGuy77]

That's the thing: Howard is just one of those mid-level assholes. We may be expecting him to have some grand, over-arching reason for his behaviour, when the simplest explanation fits: his job is his life.

[Tatum]

I think we very well may still get something about Howard down the line.  Right now, yeah, what we know about him is a little thin.  We know that his father started the firm with Chuck and he's all about upholding every last specific of that legacy to the point that he copyrighted the particular shade of blue associated with the firm.   He's extremely deferential to Chuck, maybe because of what it would cost the firm if Chuck were to finally take his ball and go home or maybe for yet unknown reasons, so much so that he doesn't mind looking like the bad guy for him.  Whether you see him as the mostly genial, well heeled and soft-spoken guy or an asshole bearing a grudge depends entirely on your viewpoint in relation to other characters.

 

Very true. Howard will forever be Professor Lasky to me, and therefore I will always cut him some slack.

[ghoulina]

I think Erin is a fun character, and I have a feeling that Jimmy is going to benefit from her help with company minutia.

 

The interactions between Erin and Jimmy are so hilarious that I hope he gets stuck with his babysitter for quite some time. 

 

Really, if Howard got hit by a truck and was off the show tomorrow would anyone care?  Would the loss of this pretty major character matter at all, in any non-plot point way?

 

I don't know what you mean about non-plot point, but while I don't love Howard, losing him would definitely effect things. Big time. For one, he has long been the "heavy" for Chuck. If he was gone, who would do Chuck's dirty work? Who would head the firm? Chuck would have to step up? Could he? Chuck would have to make those tough calls and risk people not liking him. And Kim. It might actually make things better for her. She might soar up the ladder. What about Davis and Main? The guy who pushed for them to hire Jimmy is gone, would anyone care if they sacked him right away? I think there would be a multitude of repercussions to him dying. I would care, not necessarily about him personally, but about how it would effect everyone else. 

[nodorothyparker]

Erin may turn into a full-fledged character.  Or she may not since I have a feeling Jimmy's story at Davis and Main is only going to last so much longer.  She may very well be the next person Jimmy inadvertently ends up taking down when he does something she'll be blamed for not stopping him.  As of now, though, she exists mostly as a counterpoint to Kim, an object lesson of staying on the straight and narrow and toting the company line no matter what.  Kim is the example here not of completely flouting the corporate line but of what happens when you don't put the good of the company above everything else.

 

Someone in the legal profession can correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't she much fresher out of law school as well?  So she likely still has all her ideals and belief in the profession if you follow all the rules to the letter intact.

Edited March 16, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[ShadowFacts]

 

What Hector doesn't know is that Mike will be over a barrel even if he helps Tuco get out of prison, because Nacho will be furious.

If I am Mike I would much rather deal with a furious Nacho than a furious Hector.

My guess is Mike makes a counter proposal for him to do some security work for the cartel

 

I am wondering if Mike doesn't call Jimmy for some help here.  These seasons are short, there aren't many episodes left, and I want to see Jimmy making some more moves toward the dark side.  There's only so much law firm politics that can hold my attention.  These big law people are just not that interesting to me.  Some of them are as sleazy as Saul in their own way, but I can't get into them. 

[Tatum]

I think there's something more up with Chuck's story. I'm perilously close to being able to equate Chuck and Jimmy to me and my sister because we had a paper route when we were 9-10 and she snuck in and took $10 here or $20 there and when my mom would count the money she deducted $5 from both of us but we all knew I was not the one sneaking the cash. But that story makes me the Chuck, HA!

 

One thing I really like both about this show and BB is there are NO simple characters. This is a show that is very character driven, not plot driven. Even sadistic sociopaths like Tuco and Nacho have softer sides that they show with their families. I don't think either Chuck or Howard are merely villains in this story- they have their reasons for what they do and not all of them are purely selfish or malicious (although they are capable of both).

 

 

The interactions between Erin and Jimmy are so hilarious that I hope he gets stuck with his babysitter for quite some time.

 

I love Erin's character. Jimmy: OK, first thing tomorrow morning then? Erin (who is technically below Jimmy on the food chain): Well, I was thinking we'd just get it done right now. I mean, she is so firm while still sounding polite and deferential to him. I hope her character sticks around.

 

Also, Jimmy's "bribe" at the courthouse was hilarious. Just the fact that he knows these things about people (like their attachment to beanie babies) is hilarious.

[ghoulina]

Actually Mike has Tio over a barrel.

If Mike declines the offer, Tuco stays in. If Tio moves against Mike for declining the offer, Tuco stays in.

Mike just has to go to Tio and tell him how things are going to work out - He gets Tuco out and they work out a gentleman's agreement that keeps Tuco off Mike's cloud.

 

Or....Tio finds out about Mike's family and threatens to go after Kaylee if Mike doesn't do what he wants. 

Also, Jimmy's "bribe" at the courthouse was hilarious. Just the fact that he knows these things about people (like their attachment to beanie babies) is hilarious.

 

I LOVE that courthouse clerk that can be bribed with stuffed animals. So eccentric and hilarious. Also, the pink cat that Jimmy brought her last season is the same one my daughter got for her first birthday. Her name is "Dutchess" and she's now (4 years later) a delightful shade of grey. Somehow I imagine the clerk takes much better care of hers!

[benteen]

I think if the only thing you know is that Hector is a family member of the very volatile and violent Tuco, and that Hector found where Mike has breakfast, you would probably realize Mike has a big problem on his hands here.  Mike's big concern is Kaylee and Stacy's safety, and now these criminals have been watching him.  Pretty worrisome. 

 

The two flashbacks we saw of Hector in BB where he was talking show us that he is an absolutely nasty piece of work.

 

On the subject of the name Hamlin Hamlin and McGill, I always assumed the other Hamlin is Howard's father.  I don't remember if it's been mentioned though.  We only here about Howard and Chuck.

Edited March 16, 2016 by benteen

[teddysmom]

IIRC, Howard supported Kim in the firm, including getting her tuition paid. So Kim's "failure" in supporting Jimmy reflects poorly on Howard--at least in his own mind, and perhaps in the mind of someone else to whom Howard answers--maybe a big client or two who may have seen the video. I vote for it being a pecking order like I have had the unfortunate experience of being on the low end of at my job.

 

I still don't get how Kim is getting punished so badly for Jimmy's commercial.  He told her about it after it aired, correct? And led her to believe that his bosses knew about it. So why the next day is she being blamed for not telling Howard?  If Davis & Main were cool about it, why would she think she had to run to Howard?  The whole situation is blown out of proportion. The commercial aired one time, in Colorado.  Yes put Jimmy on notice for doing it and not telling them, but acting like it's going to destroy both firms is ridiculous.  How about having a managing partner at HHM who claims to have an illness we know is all in his head?  

 

 And Kim is only going to take so much before she breaks bad.   I think there's more going on than is being let on.   She's being punished for being Jimmy's friend, but HHM wouldn't even be on this case if it wasn't for Jimmy. 

[Tatum]

I still don't get how Kim is getting punished so badly for Jimmy's commercial.  He told her about it after it aired, correct? And led her to believe that his bosses knew about it. So why the next day is she being blamed for not telling Howard?  If Davis & Main were cool about it, why would she think she had to run to Howard? 

 

Because Davis & Main WEREN'T cool with it, and in Howard's mind, Kim should have known that. Remember, Kim expressed surprise that Cliff would agree to that commercial, number one because Cliff doesn't really like commercials, and two, if he's going to do one he wants something very understated, not at all the showy depiction Jimmy put together. Kim KNEW that. She also knows Jimmy stretches the truth and doesn't have a lot of respect for authority.

 

So, Howard feels that Kim, being a shrewd person and knowing how unusual it was that Cliff would approve this commercial, and knowing how Jimmy bends the rules, should have been suspicious enough to call up Howard and say, listen, Jimmy aired a commercial that really goes against what we know about Cliff and his partners. He says he got approval, but this does not look like anything Cliff has ever agreed to before. The commercial is already aired, so that ink is out of the pen, but this is just something you should know about in case Jimmy is not telling the truth about getting approval.

 

Now, Davis & Main is still pissed at HHM for recommending someone that doesn't listen to directions, but at least Howard knows Kim is not complicit with Jimmy's schemes, and has about 12 hours to prepare for the potential angry phone call from Davis & Main.

 

After this episode, it seems that Kim does feel like she should have known better than to take Jimmy at his word, and maybe does deserve a little of the doc review purgatory to which she's been consigned.

[diebartdie]

Something I was thinking about is that figure Chuck quoted to Kim, "fourteen hundred dollars.....over the course of years". So you have Chuck and Jimmy's dad owning a little mom and pop store, back in the day it wasn't unusual for a store like that to have the older kid work the cash register occassionally while the younger one stocked shelves or dusted, whatever just minor jobs to keep them occupied and begin teaching them about work life. Eventually the younger kid also gets to work the cash register. Kids are usually terrible at math, the wrong change gets handed back. Sometimes Dad pulls some bills out of the till and hands it to one of the boys to run across the street and buy ice cream or hot dogs. Sometimes one of the boys pulls a couple bills out to put gas in the tank. All these innocent thefts add up over time but for Chuck to assume that every penny of that $1400 was on Jimmy was wrong, also for him to state that this dripdripdrip of lost funds that only added up to FOURTEEN HUNDRED dollars lead directly to the collapse of the mom and pop store is absurd!!! More likely Mom and Dad were getting older, neither son wanted to take over the store and finally a Walmart or hell even a Citgo moved in across the street and it was all over for the mom and pop. I think Kim realized all that and really gets how loathsome Chuck is. He may be the best, most ethical lawyer to ever exist but he's still a slimy asshole who is insanely jealous of his baby brother.

[teddysmom]

Something I was thinking about is that figure Chuck quoted to Kim, "fourteen hundred dollars.....over the course of years". So you have Chuck and Jimmy's dad owning a little mom and pop store, back in the day it wasn't unusual for a store like that to have the older kid work the cash register occassionally while the younger one stocked shelves or dusted, whatever just minor jobs to keep them occupied and begin teaching them about work life. Eventually the younger kid also gets to work the cash register. Kids are usually terrible at math, the wrong change gets handed back. Sometimes Dad pulls some bills out of the till and hands it to one of the boys to run across the street and buy ice cream or hot dogs. Sometimes one of the boys pulls a couple bills out to put gas in the tank. All these innocent thefts add up over time but for Chuck to assume that every penny of that $1400 was on Jimmy was wrong, also for him to state that this dripdripdrip of lost funds that only added up to FOURTEEN HUNDRED dollars lead directly to the collapse of the mom and pop store is absurd!!! More likely Mom and Dad were getting older, neither son wanted to take over the store and finally a Walmart or hell even a Citgo moved in across the street and it was all over for the mom and pop. I think Kim realized all that and really gets how loathsome Chuck is. He may be the best, most ethical lawyer to ever exist but he's still a slimy asshole who is insanely jealous of his baby brother.

Exactly!  How many years was it?  And maybe Dad didn't believe Chuck because Dad wasn't great with accounting either. 

 

Chuck is crazy jealous of Jimmy and will always blame him for everything. 

 

Now, Davis & Main is still pissed at HHM for recommending someone that doesn't listen to directions, but at least Howard knows Kim is not complicit with Jimmy's schemes, and has about 12 hours to prepare for the potential angry phone call from Davis & Main.

 

Agree to disagree. She knew about it after the fact. Your arguments are expecting her to be a mind reader and know something was wrong. Wouldn't hold up in court. 

[Boilergal]

Love how Chuck was wearing the tin foil under his suit again. 

 

I feel like Chuck asking Kim to make him coffee is his own way of making sure people know they are to serve him, he is entitled.  But he does it in such a way that he looks somewhat pathetic and they are sympathetic.  Total manipulation.  He did the same thing with Jimmy last week when he recovered from his episode, he acted all weak sitting up and asked Jimmy to make him a cup of tea - he did it earlier this season or last season also. 

 

Chuck doesn't do it with Howard - Chuck pours the celebration booze for Howard because they are equals.  Chuck doesn't seem to lean on his "illness" like a crutch around Howard - he toughs it out going to meetings, or going to the office to work overnight.  But he doesn't seem to hesitate to let Kim or Jimmy know how much it affects him and the toll it takes.  

 

Chuck preys on Jimmy's good heart, he knows everything Jimmy has done to keep him comfortable and able to live electricity free, and if he even shows the slightest discomfort Jimmy will try and fix it for him.

 

I don't buy Chuck's Sainted Dad story - I think it is Chuck's perception of what happened...and perception is not always the truth.

[Tatum]

 

Agree to disagree. She knew about it after the fact. Your arguments are expecting her to be a mind reader and know something was wrong. Wouldn't hold up in court. 

 

It's not about being a mind reader. She knows Cliff enough to be surprised he agreed to the commercial. She knows Jimmy lies.  if I know someone is both broke and a kleptomanic, and they show up with a brand new iPad, it's not me being a mind reader wondering if they stole it. It's using logic based on my own experiences with that person and my knowledge of their situation. And it doesn't have to hold up in court. Howard isn't suing her. He's sticking her with shitty work. Which, fair or unfair, is his prerogative as her boss.

 

ETA: My original argument wasn't that she should have known Jimmy would air a commercial without his boss's knowledge. My argument was that Kim should have known (or at least suspected) that Jimmy was not being truthful when he told her Cliff had approved the commercial. At that point, Kim had a very narrow window to appeal to Howard and exonerate herself.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Tatum

[nachomama]

What's hilarious is Jimmy will be the cure for Chuck, yet. He was happy sitting at home in the dark, wouldn't begin to step a foot to get his own paper much less ever stagger into the office...this is supreme effort on his part, solely to get back at Jimmy. He let Jimmy or whoever cater to him. How long would HHM continue to support him? I know law firms keep names on the doors long after founders/partners retire and it is the clout of the name, but if the clients know Chuck is cuckoo for cocoa puffs and he no longers brings in the dollars then he'd be out. 

[Dev F]

All these innocent thefts add up over time but for Chuck to assume that every penny of that $1400 was on Jimmy was wrong, also for him to state that this dripdripdrip of lost funds that only added up to FOURTEEN HUNDRED dollars lead directly to the collapse of the mom and pop store is absurd!!!

 

It was fourteen thousand dollars, actually.

 

Granted, that's still not a huge amount of money, especially if it was over a number of years. Chuck says that he was away at college when Jimmy started working in the store and had a clerkship when he came home to check the books. So that's maybe four years of college, two years of law school, and then a clerkship. So maybe seven years, give or take -- assuming the money started disappearing as soon as Jimmy started minding the store. That's about $2,000 a year he's supposedly pilfering. Not chump change, but probably not enough by itself to make the business go under.

 

Though the indication is that Chuck Sr. "eventually" ran into money problems, so it's possible that the business was fine for a while and then money started disappearing later on. That would mean the yearly total is somewhat larger.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Dev F

[teddysmom]

 

 

And it doesn't have to hold up in court. Howard isn't suing her. He's sticking her with shitty work. Which, fair or unfair, is his prerogative as her boss.

ETA: My original argument wasn't that she should have known Jimmy would air a commercial without his boss's knowledge. My argument was that Kim should have known (or at least suspected) that Jimmy was not being truthful when he told her Cliff had approved the commercial. At that point, Kim had a very narrow window to appeal to Howard and exonerate herself.

I realize no one is being sued. My point is the argument doesn't hold water. Just because a person "knows" someone does not mean they will always know how they will act in a given situation. 

 

Jimmy is Chuck's brother and knows him very well but had no idea it was Chuck not allowing him to work at HHM at the end of Season 1, that Chuck was making Howard be the bad guy. 

 

Ending on a happy note - just read  that BCS has been renewed for season 3.   

[Tatum]

She didn't have to "know" how anyone would act. She thought something was unlikely. The person who assured her that it was true is a known liar. She's not stupid and she's not naive. From Howard's perspective trusting Jimmy makes her both, at his expense.

[diebartdie]

It was fourteen thousand dollars, actually.

 

Oopsie, old ears watching the show after work, coupled with my empathy for Jimmy and I heard a much lower amount. I found the transcript and read the relevant portion and now Im mad at Jimmy for stealing so much from his dad! UGH! Wow, Im seeing that entire scene differently. Chuck is a stuck up weirdo but Jimmy really is not cool. I want to pull for him, I really do because I get how he thinks, but flat out stealing that much from his folks, when he was an adult and knew full well what he was doing and to whom, is just wrong.

[knaankos]

I certainly don't think that Jimmy had anything to do with Rebecca's death or her divorcing Chuck(whichever it turns out to be). Remember that in season 1, Chuck and Jimmy were on relatively good terms. Even if it was all a mirage. If jimmy has been directly responsible for something to do with Rebecca how could chuck even pretend to like Jimmy at that point? They would not have been on such good terms in season 1.

[ShadowFacts]

I think Kim is being treated like a naughty child for doing what?  Not making a call late at night about a commercial that ran.  In Colorado.  Once.   Plus, she didn't make excuses.  And now brings in business.  And is still treated shabbily.  Big overreaction.  I would rather work at the DMV than one of these 'respected' law firms.

[peeayebee]

t was nice to see Tio.  I didn't feel the diner scene was super intense, probably because I know how much of a badass Mike is.  

I felt tense during this scene because I kept waiting for Tio to bring up Mike's DIL and granddaughter. I was so relieved when he didn't, but Mike's not out of the woods there.

 

 

Love how Chuck was wearing the tin foil under his suit again.

Me too. They never referenced it. We never saw it. We just heard it.

 

I love when Kim told Jimmy, "I save me." That was awesome. She is not a helpless damsel needing to be rescued by any man.

 

However, there's something about Howard. I think it was clear in the shot of Howard while drinking with Chuck that we'll learn what's behind his decision, and his character will be filled out some more.

 

I love Erin. As someone said, it's fun watching the adventures of Jimmy and Erin. Also, regarding the clerk that Jimmy tried to "bribe" with the beanie baby, I absolutely loved how she kept looking at the stuffed animal while Jimmy and Erin argued. Man, she really wanted that beanie baby.

 

Remind me -- Was it ever said that Rebecca died? I can't tell if people are just speculating about this or referencing it from a previous ep.

Edited March 16, 2016 by peeayebee

[RCharter]

It's not about being a mind reader. She knows Cliff enough to be surprised he agreed to the commercial. She knows Jimmy lies.  if I know someone is both broke and a kleptomanic, and they show up with a brand new iPad, it's not me being a mind reader wondering if they stole it. It's using logic based on my own experiences with that person and my knowledge of their situation. And it doesn't have to hold up in court. Howard isn't suing her. He's sticking her with shitty work. Which, fair or unfair, is his prerogative as her boss.

 

ETA: My original argument wasn't that she should have known Jimmy would air a commercial without his boss's knowledge. My argument was that Kim should have known (or at least suspected) that Jimmy was not being truthful when he told her Cliff had approved the commercial. At that point, Kim had a very narrow window to appeal to Howard and exonerate herself.

 

I agree, the problem is, I don't think Kim ever gave anyone any indication that Jimmy had tricked her.  She mostly kept her mouth shut.  Which means that from Howards POV, Kim saw the commercial, knowing that it wasn't D&M style and likely wasn't approved by them.  Its one thing for Jimmy to specifically tell that D&M approved it, but in the lack of that specific declaration Kim should have/would have/did know that D&M wouldn't be into that commercial and it would set HHM up to look bad. Clifford Main was pissed, so I think his first call was to Howard to chew him out.  And all Howard knows is that Kim saw this commercial ahead of time, knew that Jimmy had made it and was going to air it.  The same Jimmy that put up that billboard mocking Howard.  And Howard is right to assume that Kim should have known, or suspected that D&M never okay'd that commercial.  She asked the question of Jimmy because she was suspicious.  

 

Howard and Clifford Main probably had a pretty good working relationship, which is why Howard referred Sandpiper to them.  And in exchange when D&M had work that they would partner with HHM on, they would probably throw the business their way.  Now that relationship is likely destroyed, if not just severely strained. Since Kim never mentioned that she had been specifically told by Jimmy that D&M approved the commercial it just looks like she knew there was this embarrassing commercial out there and never even bothered to ask if D&M approved it, even though it looked like something D&M would never be okay with.  In his eyes, if she had at least told him Howard could do some damage control.  

 

What's hilarious is Jimmy will be the cure for Chuck, yet. He was happy sitting at home in the dark, wouldn't begin to step a foot to get his own paper much less ever stagger into the office...this is supreme effort on his part, solely to get back at Jimmy. He let Jimmy or whoever cater to him. How long would HHM continue to support him? I know law firms keep names on the doors long after founders/partners retire and it is the clout of the name, but if the clients know Chuck is cuckoo for cocoa puffs and he no longers brings in the dollars then he'd be out. 

I think its a matter of risk/reward.  I don't think clients would ever know he was crazy because I don't think Chuck does client interaction.  Its likely that HHM has a life insurance policy on Chuck that will payout close to what his portion of the business in worth in the event of his death (I believe in business...generally, companies have a life insurance policy on executives....a key man policy is what I think its called).  However, if they pay Chuck out before his death, I'm not sure they could still keep the policy.

 

And even if they didn't have the policy.....paying Chuck that small amount per month (and I get the impression Chuck did not quibble over how much he is getting paid) isn't that bad.  Even if Chuck lives for another 30 years, its probably not the same amount as buying him out.  Of course, they will have to pay someone for Chuck's portion at Chuck's death, but I suspect that the amount would be highly negotiable, especially with Jimmy.

[Tatum]

I think Kim is being treated like a naughty child for doing what?  Not making a call late at night about a commercial that ran.  In Colorado.  Once.   Plus, she didn't make excuses.  And now brings in business.  And is still treated shabbily.  Big overreaction.  I would rather work at the DMV than one of these 'respected' law firms.

 

Has it been made clear how long Kim has been stuck doing doc review? I remember in an earlier episode after Jimmy stayed at Kim's, she had to go to work early because she said Howard makes whoever comes in last do doc review. So, it sounds like that is a pretty standard cross to bear of any associate at that firm. If Kim's error in judgement (as Howard sees it) sticks her in doc review for a few weeks, that sounds relatively harmless. If this is going to go on indefinitely for months, that would be a much bigger deal.

 

But regardless, I agree that shutting her out of a client task that SHE brought in really, really sucks and is a poor business decision on Howard's part. I still think though, with or without Chuck's intervention, Kim will be back doing her normal work soon.

[Captanne]

I think there is a difference between "I save me" when random events have caused a problem or she has caused her own punishment through her own behaviour.  On the other hand, Jimmy's impetuous and reckless behaviour caused Kim's banishment.  I would be tempted, in her shoes, to say, "Fucking right you're fixing this.  You caused it."

 

Tempted, I say.  I'm not sure what I would actually do.  I'm not clear on why she needs the job so badly because, by this point, I would have quit.  The humiliation and debasement is beyond understanding.

 

ETA:  I'm still noodling this statement of mine because it's so debatable.  Part of me would also be tempted to say, "Don't do a God damned thing.  Your actions caused this mess now go sit in the corner and be quiet."  But no part of me would say, "You caused this so I'm responsible for fixing my predicament which was a direct result of your behaviour."  That just doesn't quite compute in my head.  Of course, another way of looking at it is that Jimmy did what he did and Kim wasn't savvy enough to see something smelled -- and that's what she's punishing herself for.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Captanne

[ShadowFacts]

 

And even if they didn't have the policy.....paying Chuck that small amount per month (and I get the impression Chuck did not quibble over how much he is getting paid) isn't that bad.  Even if Chuck lives for another 30 years, its probably not the same amount as buying him out.  Of course, they will have to pay someone for Chuck's portion at Chuck's death, but I suspect that the amount would be highly negotiable, especially with Jimmy.

 

Funny you should mention this, I was just wondering what happens in the event of Chuck's death regarding his ownership share.  Would a probate court require that to be valued by a neutral third party?  What got me to wondering was, and I cannot remember, did Chuck have a brain tumor ruled out when he was in the hospital last season?  I am thinking he must not have allowed any brain imaging because of his extreme phobia, but I may be wrong.  If his symptoms were actually attributable to a physical cause like that, we might be seeing him with seizures soon, followed by his permanent exit.  And then HHR would be forced to pay his estate, right?

 

 

Remind me -- Was it ever said that Rebecca died? I can't tell if people are just speculating about this or referencing it from a previous ep.

 

No it hasn't been stated, it is just speculation based on the fact she is nowhere in sight, and he still wears a wedding ring, so divorce is less likely. 

[Tatum]

I think there is a difference between "I save me" when random events have caused a problem or she has caused her own punishment through her own behaviour.  On the other hand, Jimmy's impetuous and reckless behaviour caused Kim's banishment.  I would be tempted, in her shoes, to say, "Fucking right you're fixing this.  You caused it."

 

Tempted, I say.  I'm not sure what I would actually do.  I'm not clear on why she needs the job so badly because, by this point, I would have quit.  The humiliation and debasement is beyond understanding.

 

But there really isn't any way for him to fix it for her. His solution was to sue her employer, which is impractical for the reasons she stated. I do think she knew where he was going with his offer to leave the law if it meant getting Chuck to intervene on her behalf with Howard, and she was saying she's not going to consider that a sacrifice on his part since he doesn't really like what he's doing and she doesn't want to be his convenient excuse for quitting.

 

I also wondered the whole episode why she didn't just spend the time cold calling for a job for herself rather than clients for her firm. I read the comments here about Howard likely not giving her a recommendation or a reference which makes sense, but (and I don't know how things work in the legal world) I work in finance and there's no way I'd let my current boss know I was job searching, so doesn't it stand to reason that any prospective employer Kim talked to wouldn't expect a recommendation from Howard? Maybe things are different in the legal world. I would think though that Kim had a strong enough record and enough contacts to make a lateral move somewhere.

[Captanne]

I am a lawyer but I don't practice anymore.  Here in DC lawyers move jobs so much as associates that no one even hangs a picture on the wall of their "office".  It's:   In, unpack your pencils, pack your pencils back up again and move on Out.