S02.E05: Rebecca

[ElDosEquis]

In vacuum, maybe. But we have already seen Jimmy execute several scams on his own that have nothing to do with Chuck (and on BCS, not BB). And we have seen Jimmy put Kim's career on the line despite repeated warnings and pleas from her. And we have seen Jimmy's reaction is to suggest she sue HHM, and he has no clue she wouldn't feel the same.

 

Chuck may or may not fear that his brother is potentially more brilliant than Chuck. Whatever he feels, it doesn't change the fact that Jimmy is the architect of his own failure, and even if Jimmy manages to take one step forward, it is then two steps back. Chuck is right there. The only question is, did Chuck do something that made Jimmy this way? If not, no amount of Chuck bashing can change the fact that Jimmy is who he is.

 

I'm not bashing Chuck, I'm running him over with a Buffalo BoMag.  Jimmy would always turn out to be 'who he is', but the kindness and errands he ran for that ungrateful fucker show who he really is, deeper inside? Just as nothing can change Jimmy and who he is, Nothing can change the fact that he has a neurotic, hateful, jealous and self righteous prick for a brother?

 

I am related to a 'Chuck' - I can pick my nose, ass and teams for March Madness, but I can't pick my relatives?

[ElDosEquis]

. But I don't see any reason to imagine that Chuck would be like, "Can you believe this guy wanted help fixing his car from a big fancy lawyer like me? What a loser!"

I meant Chuck would call the AAA for his own tire and then talk smack to the TT driver.

 

I don't think he would even stop or interact with the poor schlub on the side of the road.

 

He bring it up in a casual way and laugh about the 95 degree heat, the age of the guy, his trying to change his own tire and someone NOT having a AAA membership.

Edited March 15, 2016 by ElDosEquis

[ShadowFacts]

 

Sadly, from all I've seen/heard this is the way that big law works (at least in bigger markets).  If she wanted to move to a smaller firm, if she wanted to open her own practice, maybe even if she wanted to go in-house it would be a different story.  But after years at her job, if she can't get a good recommendation, she would seem like damaged goods.  The Davis and Main thing opened up for Jimmy as a right time/right place scenario.  And everyone had to go to bat for him.   After he brought in a huge case.  However I think, Jimmy's idea of suing HHM might have been a good idea just to get her the leverage to get a good rec out of them to find another position.  Not actually sue, but the threat of the suit to make sure they give her a sparkling recommendation or actively support her getting another position. 

 

And I don't even think Howard would just settle at not giving her a good recommendation, I think he would actively look to tank it because he wants Kim to feel punished.

 

After she was just kicked in the teeth by Howard after bringing in new business, I would think she would see the writing on the wall.  How could that job be tolerable anymore, no matter how much she wanted to succeed in that firm?  I know she had loyalty  because HHM put her through school, but at some point the self-respect has to kick in.  She would have to see that any of the alternatives-smaller firm, solo practice, in-house, non-profit-would probably be preferable to the shit she's eating now. 

[Chaos Theory]

I agree. Its hard to see things from Chuck's perspective because he is actively the worst, but I think he wanted to talk to her and talking over a cup of coffee is sort of a thing....and from his perspective, he really can't get it.

I would even take it a step further. I think at the outset, Chuck was all about getting back at Jimmy by getting at Kim.....but he may have sort of changed his tune when he saw that she had been there all night working. He may genuinely think he is doing her a kindness by warning her away from Jimmy. The same way he wished he had been able to warn/protect his father. Because even if Jimmy never took that money, from Chuck's perspective, he did and it ruined his father.

I don't think he was being either. He is afraid of technology so he asked for help but he is by nature a guy without tact or charisma and Kim spent the episode getting the shit kicked out of her. I actually think in his own way Chuck was trying to warn Kim but then I have no illusions about the kind of man Jimmy is. Yes he will pull over to the side of the road and help with a flat but then con his way into getting paid and get the tire with the hole in it which he will sell for a profit. Edited March 15, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Well one thing is certain, it doesn't pay to be a rainmaker at Chuck's firm.

That's definitely how the other employees will see it. But, if Howard is that incompetent at management, it explains why he's willing to be Chuck's puppet (however often that is).

[Bannon]

You just touched on another 'maybe' in the story?

 

About the corrupt town? How's about this angle?

Paying protection money to keep the store open - most likely in a town with THAT kind of reputation?

 

About the chuck/jimmy rivalry....The worst fucking critics and haters sometimes come from the people you hold closest to you? Sometimes the person that 'holds court' at a gathering will either attract or repel people. The people around him will be laughing and enjoying the event and the uptight assholes will be watching their every move and thinking about the scene they are making?

 

Chuck isn't a hard to fathom character. He's the asshole born without the 'fun' gene. He is socially awkward, so he retreats into the black/while world. Anything that he doesn't find to his liking is black.  

 

He is like a vampire/evil monster lurking in the dark. The 'lightness of day' (and electricity because it brings light into his home) is his enemy. His belief of getting poisoned by electricity is the 'cockroach effect' - turn on the light and watch them freak out?

 

One of the nastiest things that can happen to a host is preparing the house for the 'Worst Possible Dinner Guest', then having them show up and charming the shit out of everyone. Chuck preps his wife with another quick "this is the ripcord, in an emergency pull it" talk and she ends up having a good time.

 

Later on? Chuck tries to redeem himself and save a little face by telling a lawyer joke, flubs it, then gets a pat on the head and "I'm going to sleep, turn off the light" for his troubles. Chuck despises Jimmy for his charisma and goodness, so much so that when Chuck has his 'breakdown/illness", Jimmy can't walk away from his big brother. Chuck senses this and retreats into his darkness and takes advantage of jimmy with ice/propane and grocery runs.

 

It's NOT enough that Jimmy beings apples into the house, they MUST be the fucking designer apples that the store across the Valley sells? Jimmy won't abandon his brother - that street is one way - but Chuck won't make that mistake again.

 

He saves Jimmy from jail.

Pays his way to New Mexico

Gets him a job at his firm

Invites him to dinner, where he charms the panties off his wife.

The job inspires Jimmy to study and pass (the third times the charm) the bar

Jimmy begins his career, but by THIS time Chuck ain't having any of that....

NO JOB FOR YOU!!!

 

Chuck is deathly afraid of Jimmy coming in to eclipse his sun (Imagine the horror of having James McGill, Esq. being mistaken for the McGill on the sign outside?) at the firm. He just can't see his ne'er do well brother, do well......

I just think it is extremely unlikely that the writers randomly chose Cicero, IL as the particular city where Chuck and Jimmy's dad raised them, and ran a shop, in the middle of the 20th century, meaning Chuck and Jimmy's dad likely has a history in Cicero stretching back into the Depression. They could have chosen any number of towns, or just said "Chicago" to take advantage of Odenkirk's natural accent (and we saw in Fargo season 1 that Odenkirk is good with accents), but they chose a very violent, very, very, corrupt city, in the 1st half of the 20th century, extending into the latter half. I think we will eventually see this fleshed out, and the story Chuck told to Kim was a bit of ironic foreshadowing.  

[RCharter]

After she was just kicked in the teeth by Howard after bringing in new business, I would think she would see the writing on the wall.  How could that job be tolerable anymore, no matter how much she wanted to succeed in that firm?  I know she had loyalty  because HHM put her through school, but at some point the self-respect has to kick in.  She would have to see that any of the alternatives-smaller firm, solo practice, in-house, non-profit-would probably be preferable to the shit she's eating now. 

Agreed, which is why the gentle threat of a lawsuit might work.  And she has been working doc review for....less than a month?  She may figure she is still rightfully in the dog house.  I think if they kept her in doc review for a year....six months she would probably realize that she just can't win and its worth sacrificing everything for another position.  But Kim really wants that big firm life, a month or two of doc review probably isn't going to sway her.  

[ElDosEquis]

And Chuck has built up a lifetime of resentment because people really love being around Jimmy, regardless of how he screws things up.  Many people rail about how they do the right thing and get a kick in the ass regardless. I am known to say that no good deed goes unpunished. Chuck can't stand that he isn't as well liked as Jimmy, even though he (Chuck) is so accomplished and upstanding.  As I said in an earlier post, I believe this was an ongoing situation since childhood. The McGill parents always favored Jimmy no matter how high achieving Chuck was.

Growing up, I'd go out and come home to a locked house. When my younger sibs were out, my mom would sit on the couch and wait until 2-3 in the morning for them.

Years later, I asked my mom why she 'favored' the others by staying up and waiting for them to get home.

She waited a second and said, "I trusted you, you always told us where you were going and I knew who you were with"

 

Sometimes the 'favor' parents show towards a child is merely the admission that they need a little more care and watching over than the others. I can see Chuck pouting on the sidelines because Jimmy was having a good time - and their parents telling Jimmy to play with Chuck because he is your brother (and he hasn't the ability to have fun on his own)?

[Ohwell]

I want to see things from Chuck's point of view as well as Jimmys' but Chuck is such a weasel that I just can't.  I'm hoping that his wife "actualized" herself (per Peggy in "Fargo") and just left his ass.

[ghoulina]

After she was just kicked in the teeth by Howard after bringing in new business, I would think she would see the writing on the wall.  How could that job be tolerable anymore, no matter how much she wanted to succeed in that firm?  I know she had loyalty  because HHM put her through school, but at some point the self-respect has to kick in.  She would have to see that any of the alternatives-smaller firm, solo practice, in-house, non-profit-would probably be preferable to the shit she's eating now.

 

What I don't get is, just what IS Howard's problem with Kim? I don't think it can be just the video. Howard has appeared to get easily angered by Kim from the jump. Is it really her connection to Jimmy? Because he actually doesn't seem to mind Jimmy all that much. I got the impression that he actually felt bad about going THAT far to keep Jimmy out of the firm, at the behest of his brother. And the video....she didn't even have a part in making. All she did was watch it. HHM wasn't mentioned in the video, were they? I get that D&M might look badly at HHM for recommending a loose cannon like Jimmy, but can Howard really put that all on Kim? HE chose to offer the recommendation. He didn't have to do that. 

 

I don't know...is it just me? The way he is treating Kim seems grossly disproportional to what happened. 

[Ronin Jackson]

I can understand the complaints about the pacing and the stakes being slower and lower than Breaking Bad, but honestly I think if the writers were trying harder to emulate the pacing and stakes of BB, it would inevitably feel like a pale imitation. That's kind of how I felt about the pilot of Vinyl. Even though it was authentically directed by the real Scorcese, it still felt like Scorcese imitating himself, or going through the motions. BCS could have had the same vibe if they were afraid of letting the show fall into a rhythm and cadence that fits the story and characters. BB started with Walter White on a drug deal gone horribly bad. BCS started with Jimmy McGill struggling to make it as a defense attorney. If Jimmy's story was forced to start from a place that emulated Walt's, it wouldn't have felt natural. Jimmy/Saul's story simply doesn't warrant the constant high stakes that Walt's did. But I find it's still one I'm very glad to follow and am invested in, and I also think BCS has successfully emulated the world building and attention to detail of its predecessor.

 

All the BB cameos (and there have been many this season) have all worked perfectly within the framework of the BCS story. Nothing has felt out of place or like fan service. Gilligan and Gould are committed to telling the Saul Goodman story exactly the way that is right for that story, and IMO it's paying off.

[Tabasco Cat]

Weakest episode this season. More Mike, less Kim please. She is just not that interesting.

 

I like Kim but devoting 20 minutes to her trying to drum up new business for the firm was a bit much. It seemed to me they dwelled on it just to get one colorful lineup of post-it notes after another on screen. Very artsy fartsy and it was kind of neat from a visual point of view. But it went on for way too long.

 

Also interesting: the show ran long. Why? There wasn't 7 or 8 minutes of Kim's phone calls they could cut out? Power struggle in the BCS production office?

[ShadowFacts]

What I don't get is, just what IS Howard's problem with Kim? I don't think it can be just the video. Howard has appeared to get easily angered by Kim from the jump. Is it really her connection to Jimmy? Because he actually doesn't seem to mind Jimmy all that much. I got the impression that he actually felt bad about going THAT far to keep Jimmy out of the firm, at the behest of his brother. And the video....she didn't even have a part in making. All she did was watch it. HHM wasn't mentioned in the video, were they? I get that D&M might look badly at HHM for recommending a loose cannon like Jimmy, but can Howard really put that all on Kim? HE chose to offer the recommendation. He didn't have to do that. 

 

I don't know...is it just me? The way he is treating Kim seems grossly disproportional to what happened. 

 

It's not just you, I agree he is overreacting.  And I wonder why.  We haven't seen him being petty and tyrannical in general, but I suppose we really only see limited interactions.  It may be something personal, or that he feels extra powerful over her because HHM paid for her education.   Or at least that he really doesn't like that she likes Jimmy.   I don't know, but how he's treating her is why I think he is a creepy jerk.

[Ohwell]

What I don't get is, just what IS Howard's problem with Kim? I don't think it can be just the video. Howard has appeared to get easily angered by Kim from the jump. Is it really her connection to Jimmy? Because he actually doesn't seem to mind Jimmy all that much. I got the impression that he actually felt bad about going THAT far to keep Jimmy out of the firm, at the behest of his brother. And the video....she didn't even have a part in making. All she did was watch it. HHM wasn't mentioned in the video, were they? I get that D&M might look badly at HHM for recommending a loose cannon like Jimmy, but can Howard really put that all on Kim? HE chose to offer the recommendation. He didn't have to do that. 

 

I don't know...is it just me? The way he is treating Kim seems grossly disproportional to what happened. 

I'm wondering if he tried to hit on her and she turned him down?  It just seems so...personal.  Whatever the reason, I'm just surprised that she'd stay with the firm, knowing that he wants to give her a hard time. 

[Blakeston]

What I don't get is, just what IS Howard's problem with Kim? I don't think it can be just the video. Howard has appeared to get easily angered by Kim from the jump. Is it really her connection to Jimmy? Because he actually doesn't seem to mind Jimmy all that much. I got the impression that he actually felt bad about going THAT far to keep Jimmy out of the firm, at the behest of his brother. And the video....she didn't even have a part in making. All she did was watch it. HHM wasn't mentioned in the video, were they? I get that D&M might look badly at HHM for recommending a loose cannon like Jimmy, but can Howard really put that all on Kim? HE chose to offer the recommendation. He didn't have to do that. 

 

I don't know...is it just me? The way he is treating Kim seems grossly disproportional to what happened. 

If Chuck is to be believed, Howard is really mad at himself for recommending Jimmy, but has chosen to take it out on Kim.

 

I won't be at all surprised if there's something more going on. But in the world of law firms, there are plenty of people who are obsessed with their reputations. And I could easily see Howard being that way, considering that it's a firm his father founded, and he wants to prove that he's good enough.

[RCharter]

I'm wondering if he tried to hit on her and she turned him down?  It just seems so...personal.  Whatever the reason, I'm just surprised that she'd stay with the firm, knowing that he wants to give her a hard time. 

Maybe.....to date, he hasn't held her career back at the firm.  She was doing just fine, but Howard does always seem to want Kim to pick him over Jimmy.  Even with the billboard, he seemed to want her to feel some righteous anger and take his side over Jimmy.  She stands up for Jimmy in a way that she won't for Howard...and its genuine.  It can't be purchased with Howard's partner status and flashy good looks and designer suits and what I'm sure is an impressive pedigree.  The biggest change is that she is now dating Jimmy, and it may burn Howard that someone he considers so beneath him can get that level of support and loyalty from Kim, and he can't.

[ghoulina]

I'm wondering if he tried to hit on her and she turned him down?  It just seems so...personal.  Whatever the reason, I'm just surprised that she'd stay with the firm, knowing that he wants to give her a hard time.

 

You're exactly right. Personal, is how it feels. I don't know about him hitting on her. I think that might have come up to Jimmy before, or it might make KIM act weird around Howard, which I don't think she does. But yea, there's something there...

[Sentient Meat]

I think Rebecca established that a lot of the dynamic between Jimmy and Chuck is as simple as Cain and Abel, or perhaps more precisely... Nate and David Fisher.

Hardworking, responsible, dutiful son overshadowed by his free-spirit, charismatic, rebellious brother.   Personally I doubt that Jimmy would steal from his dad without any mitigating circumstances... they spent all those years working together and Chuck said that in his father's eyes Jimmy could do no wrong...  it's possible that Jimmy embezzled but it would go against what we know about him in terms of his previous loyalty to Chuck and his honest treatment of Walt and Jesse's money.  He seems to target assholes as his mark... like that obnoxious broker at the bar rather than people who are close to him.  It's much more likely that Chuck is trying to sabotage him especially with the foreshadowing at the intro.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Sentient Meat

[famouslastwords]

But, again, the previous Breaking Bad flashback suggests that this wasn't always the case. If this scene had occurred in a vacuum, sure, there'd be no reason to assume that Hector was particularly disabled. But since we know that he used to drink with his right hand but had trouble doing it, and now he pointedly reaches for his coffee cup with his left hand, it make sense that it's meant to indicate some level of degeneration.

 

My assumption when watching this scene last night was that the actor playing Hector has early stage Parkinson's. I hope it's just an acting choice and not an actual manifestation of disease - impressive acting (and continuity) if so!

[ElDosEquis]

Howard exudes the kind of persona who thinks that someone like Kim should immediately fall in love with him at the drop of a hat

Howard doesn't drink beer, he's a wine snob, he plays squash, his suits are custom, he only wears designer underwear, exfoliates and has a personal jeweler. he gets massages and washes his car every week. He knows who Bang and Olefson are, golfs and has a box for the ABQ philharmonic. He reads GQ, gets his shoes shined and drives German cars.......

 

The only thing he has in common with Jimmy is crabs.

 

Jimmy went to a school that has a crab for a mascot.

Howard got crabs after a date with the school mascot.

[Chaos Theory]

I think Rebecca established that a lot of the dynamic between Jimmy and Chuck is as simple as Cain and Abel, or perhaps more precisely... Nate and David Fisher.

Hardworking, responsible, dutiful son overshadowed by his free-spirit, charismatic, rebellious brother. Personally I doubt that Jimmy would steal from his dad without any mitigating circumstances... they spent all those years working together and Chuck said that in his father's eyes Jimmy could do no wrong... it's possible that Jimmy embezzled but it would go against what we know about him in terms of his previous loyalty to Chuck and his honest treatment of Walt and Jesse's money. He seems to target assholes as his mark... like that obnoxious broker at the bar rather than people who are close to him.

But that might be because of what he did to his father and seeing the fallout. If you believe Chucks version of the story Sr died soon after losing the store. Jimmy is a lot of things a psychopath isn't one of them. Even Chuck said Jimmy isn't a bad guy. He just can't help himself.

For now I am willing to accept the story as some truth to it.

[Bannon]

Let's be clear. Howard is a moron. Kim just handed him several million dollars (do you know what it would have cost in 2002 to buy an annuity that tossed off 250k a year in income, like that new client is going to provide, at a minimum?) , and he kicks her in the teeth? You can find chimps at the Albuquerque zoo who have more sense than that. 

[Sentient Meat]

I like Kim but devoting 20 minutes to her trying to drum up new business for the firm was a bit much. It seemed to me they dwelled on it just to get one colorful lineup of post-it notes after another on screen. Very artsy fartsy and it was kind of neat from a visual point of view. But it went on for way too long.

 

Also interesting: the show ran long. Why? There wasn't 7 or 8 minutes of Kim's phone calls they could cut out? Power struggle in the BCS production office?

 

It's a challenge as a filmmaker to try to visually express the difficulty and hard work that Kim needed to accomplish in order to win back her place using an office environment... they could have typically had her making phone calls with jumpcuts of the desert skyline changing from light to black... instead they showed her using a clever old school post-it note representation of a Windows 8/tablet layout trying to engineer an Apollo 13 like solution the way an attorney might do it.  I guess I can see how it might be boring to some but I personally ended up really admiring Kim's character and perseverance.  If they did another usual thing where they just cut to someone wearing clothes from the night before with their hair disheveled saying they needed coffee to recover from the allnighter, I'm not sure it would have allowed the same insight into her work ethic and intelligence.

 

But that might be because of what he did to his father and seeing the fallout. If you believe Chucks version of the story Sr died soon after losing the store. Jimmy is a lot of things a psychopath isn't one of them. Even Chuck said Jimmy isn't a bad guy. He just can't help himself.

For now I am willing to accept the story as some truth to it.

 

I can see how that maybe Chuck in his own mind honestly sees it that way.  But if Jimmy stole from his father without any good reason then he no longer remains a tragic figure who fell from grace battling a corrupt system... but a superficial two-bit sociopathic hustler.  Lots of people like that exist, but they don't make very good central characters.

[benteen]

I understand the purpose it to set a mood but what's the in-story purpose for it being so damn dark in the basement as you have employees reviewing documents?

[nodorothyparker]

I don't know whether I completely buy that Jimmy stole from his father's store, but in the end I'm not sure it even really matters.  I believe that Chuck absolutely believes it's true and it's colored every interaction he's had with Jimmy ever since.  Chuck said it happened while he was away at college, meaning Jimmy at best could have been no older than his early teens.  That's a very long time to believe someone you profess to love is a thief and treat them accordingly.

 

This episode was slow, to be sure. But it was a slow burn kind of thing that felt like a puzzle piece that will fill in the bigger picture over the long term.  What it did accomplish if nothing else was solidify the notion I've had since last week that this isn't really a story of poor Jimmy and look how his mean brother tanked him and turned him into Saul at all.  For the second week in a row, Jimmy has offered to quit the cushy law firm for someone else.  He won't deliberately do it for himself even though it's clearly suffocating him with all of its double spaces after periods and capitalized Roman numerals because as he saw reflected in his colleague's eyes at the courthouse and he already knows, it's a pretty sweet deal that he should be over the moon for.  He knows it's what he's supposed to want, what he was supposed to be working for.  But it's not who he is.  If anything, this episode makes me feel more sure in my hunch that this storyline won't end with poor sad Jimmy crossing the line one time too many, the victim of people who just won't give him a chance but in a blaze of defiant glory when he's finally just had enough.  Everything that will come after with Saul, the cheesy TV commercials and bench ads, the over the top strip mall office with fake columns and the Constitution on the walls, the life as a criminal lawyer will just be a bonus thumb in the eye to Chuck and everything the respectable legal profession tried to make him be rather than the end result.  It's just who he truly was all along. 

[Bannon]

It's a challenge as a filmmaker to try to visually express the difficulty and hard work that Kim needed to accomplish in order to win back her place using an office environment... they could have typically had her making phone calls with jumpcuts of the desert skyline changing from light to black... instead they showed her using a clever old school post-it note representation of a Windows 8/tablet layout trying to engineer an Apollo 13 like solution the way an attorney might do it.  I guess I can see how it might be boring to some but I personally ended up really admiring Kim's character and perseverance.  If they did another usual thing where they just cut to someone wearing clothes from the night before with their hair disheveled saying they needed coffee to recover from the allnighter, I'm not sure it would have allowed the same insight into her work ethic and intelligence.

 

 

 

Boy, if you/ve ever had a job, or owned a business, where you had to make hundreds, may be thousands of phone calls, in  a desperate effort to drum up business, the way this was portrayed really hit home. The constant calling back, to catch people in, the constant non-stop shower of rejection and insult, to find that gem in the ocean of crap, just takes an incredible amount of perserverance. I knew what Kim was feeling, when she had that solitary celebration in the parking garage, and what she felt when Howard kicked her in the teeth. Brilliantly written, directed, and acted.   

[islandgal140]

 

Not sure what to make of Chuck's marriage. His wife clearly wants to cut loose more, and enjoyed the diversion of Jimmy. And then when Chuck tried a joke, she barely paid attention. Timing? Not sure what that meant.

 

The scene of Chuck's poorly told joke and Chuck's story to Kim correlated to me. Chuck is not a natural born story or joke teller but it seems that with time and (perhaps) more exposure to Jimmy he has improved. He will never be as riveting as Jimmy of course, but I thought the candy store story was essentially true but his attempts to paint a too storybook version of things perhaps to make it pull at heartstrings was a bit clumsy. This wasn't exactly Chuck getting down in the mud as invited by Jimmy last week, but definitely, a fledgling attempt at manipulation. 

[monagatuna]

I understand the purpose it to set a mood but what's the in-story purpose for it being so damn dark in the basement as you have employees reviewing documents?

Doc review is the most thankless grunt work in the legal profession, as far as I've experienced. A firm I worked for as a young lawyer had a client so cheap they wouldn't bother to pay for air conditioning or heat outside of 9-5, so if we had to work off-hours, we had to sweat or freeze in a conference room the size of a bathroom stall (where six of us were using double screens to do the work). I worked at one place that stuffed extra reviewers into the breakroom, elbow-to-elbow. Literally their chairs would scrape against each other when they got up to use the bathroom. Those visits were monitored for length, by the way.

 

At best, doc reviewers are an afterthought. If there's no overhead lighting in the basement already, no one's going to put any in for the sake of some newly minted JDs.

[Tabasco Cat]

It required the viewer think about the deeper connections and disconnections.  There were very few overt/obvious explanations.

 

It required the viewer to stay awake long enough to get to the diner scene at the end.

[ElDosEquis]

A short on Mark Margolis.

 

I forgot about his pooped pantaloons........

 

http://www.vulture.com/2016/03/mark-margolis-tio-better-call-saul-return.html#

 

 

[Misstify]

I guess I can see how it might be boring to some but I personally ended up really admiring Kim's character and perseverance.  If they did another usual thing where they just cut to someone wearing clothes from the night before with their hair disheveled saying they needed coffee to recover from the allnighter, I'm not sure it would have allowed the same insight into her work ethic and intelligence.

 

I enjoyed the sequence of Kim steadily, steadily working.  She never seemed to get bleary-eyed, she did not complain in front of the junior workers and did not let them know she was working all night.  Just wearing the suit and heels for all those hours would've done me in without any documents or phone calls.  Calling all the people she's ever ever networked with was grueling as heck.  She knows she screwed up by recommending Jimmy for the job, and she figures it's fair enough that she should be in the doghouse for a while, but she thought she had accomplished something that would make up for it and get her back in her old position.  It didn't work that way because, as people have said, there's something personal going on.  (I still think the "something personal" is really about Chuck and Jimmy, with Chuck pulling the strings and using Kim to get to Jimmy; although Howard may also have something against Kim).

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Who's The Real Pigf...ornicator On Better Call Saul?
And more not-quite-burning questions sparked by 'Rebecca.'

[Deanie87]

I so agree, I'm loving it. I was surprised to see so many negative comments about the episode, and the season in general. I remember watching last night, and Kim and Chuck were just talking - and I was riveted. It's true that a lot of the characters aren't very likeable. But I felt the same with Breaking Bad. Over the course of the series I think I hated more people than I actively liked. The first time I watched, I HATED Walt. Hated him! And I thought - how odd to watch a series where I dislike the main character so so much. But he was still a fascinating character. That's how I feel about this show. I really cannot stand Chuck, yet I want to know more about him. That's the beauty of Gilligan, IMO. I'm hooked. 

 

Me too, and so far there isn't a character that I actively don't want to see.  Kim and Howard are probably the least interesting to me so far, but even they are well drawn enough that I enjoy their scenes.  And I love Chuck, as neurotic and assholish as he is, and I see his point in a lot of ways.  My best friend has 2 brothers very similar to Chuck and Jimmy.  I will hang out all night and drink and have fun with the Jimmy brother, but I would never lend him money, set him up with one of my friends, or trust half of the stuff that he says.  Her other brother is responsible, wonderful to their parents, etc., but it is a chore to have a conversation with him. And at the end of the day, when things stop being fun with the Jimmy brother, they REALLY stop being fun, and someone else has to clean up the mess. Time and again, yet he is everyone's favorite.  I'm sure we all know people like this.

 

I read a few hints about this episode before watching, and I was SO hoping that the BB character was going to Gus Fring, even though I can't even remember how or if he relates to Mike and Saul.  I'll take Hector though.

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

 

Castilian is just another word for Spanish, it's tautology in other words. 'Pensinsular' Spanish would be a more apt description for dialects from Spain. People from Argentina for example frequently say they speak 'castellano' (castilian) instead of Spanish as both terms are interchangeable and mean the same thing.

There are different dialects of Spanish - my mother spoke Castilian Spanish (family was from Spain, came to Cuba before coming to the US). Her Spanish was like textbook Spanish - like listening to those perfect language learning tapes. Spanish spoke byMexicans frequently has some different words  (i.e. turkey in Spanish is "pavo" but I learned it as "guajolote" pronounced wa-ha-low-tay in school in Southern California) because of the Aztec influence. 

 

I think everything is slowly simmering but will be coming to a head very soon. 

 

And the BOOOOOTTSSS!!! I had to back my DVR up about five times and freeze frame on the BOOTS! 

[Umbelina]

 

Ding, ding, ding!!!! We have TIO! I literally gasped. So great. 

 

You know, a lot of people last week were commenting that Mike's deal with Nacho seemed really out of character. That there was too much that could have gone wrong. It was too risky, and why keep him alive, with all the potential blowback? I agreed. But....we are thinking of BB era Mike. This is Mike at the START of who he becomes. And we are seeing blowback! Maybe this is it. Maybe this mess he's gotten himself into is what teaches him his future mantra of "no half measures". 

 

 

Good catch.  This may be the time that Mike decides half-measures are for people with death wishes.

 

Again, the portrait of Chuck Sr., given by Chuck Jr., is simply not credible, given the context of time and place. Chuck Jr., is what , in his mid 50s or so by 2002? That means he was born in about 1945-1948, which means his dad was born 1925ish, in Cicero Illinois. There is no way a person born in that town, in that time, especially if they became a small shop owner, had such a naive view of human beings, in the way Chuck Jr., described. Cicero was an incredibly corrupt, violent, place, , and somebody whose early life took place in that setting would not be the person Chuck Jr., described. Chuck's story to Kim has to have huge elements of bullsh*t.

 

No, Jimmy was never a good guy, trying to keep on the straight and narrow. My bet is that Chuck Sr. never was either, and that is going to be revealed. 

 

Thanks so much to all the posters giving background on Cicero, I had no idea at all, and Vince Gilligan certainly didn't bother to give any information here.  Another miss by this writing team, in my opinion.  I shouldn't have to do historical or geographical research to "get" a major point.

 

 

And more not-quite-burning questions sparked by 'Rebecca.'

http://previously.tv/better-call-saul/whos-the-real-pigf-ornicator-on-better-call-saul/"> Read the story

 

Tara, this was a beautiful and detailed, thoughtful review of the episode.  Thanks for that.  Highly recommended, not a wasted word, and excellent points.

This is exactly what I was thinking.  Something was going on with Chuck, Sr. that would have tarnished his image (gambling? another woman? a child out of wedlock?) and Jimmy was the one chosen to handle it because their father didn't want or need a lecture from Chuck, Jr.  So Jimmy did what needed to be done and didn't say anything about it, much like Kim keeping quiet about not knowing the whole story regarding Jimmy's commercial because she didn't want to make him look bad.  Perhaps Chuck, Jr. wasn't around and didn't know the extent to which their father was stumbling (thus he could paint a picture of the father being a saint).  My guess is that Jimmy was the favorite child and that is why Chuck is so jealous of him.  

It could be anything.  Chuck is a very "black and white" or "good and bad" thinker, and also completely full of himself and judgemental, as well as obviously detesting or at the very least jealous of Jimmy.  If the writers are trying to make me like Chuck, like, EVER, they are failing.  I'll get to that point later here, about the failure of the writing for me.

 

 

 

I never watched Breaking Bad, so the last scene with Mike didn't really leave an impression.  Though it did sort of contradict last week, where I assumed all the criminals thought Mike was a random old guy.  Now Tuco's family knows exactly who he is and that he's an ex-cop.

Fascinating for me.  Can you elaborate on how you, someone who never watched Breaking Bad, saw that scene?  Obviously I have, and I felt so much tension, just loved it.  I'm very interested to know how people who haven't had as much time with these two saw the scene.  For me it was one of the highlights of the episode, but is that only because at least those two characters HAVE been developed, where I think the lack of development on the BCS only characters is a severe failure at this point? 

 

 

And Chuck has built up a lifetime of resentment because people really love being around Jimmy, regardless of how he screws things up.  Many people rail about how they do the right thing and get a kick in the ass regardless. I am known to say that no good deed goes unpunished. Chuck can't stand that he isn't as well liked as Jimmy, even though he (Chuck) is so accomplished and upstanding.  As I said in an earlier post, I believe this was an ongoing situation since childhood. The McGill parents always favored Jimmy no matter how high achieving Chuck was.

Yes, but just ONE of my problems with the show right now is that I got that the first 60938073 times they've showed it.  Move it along folks, you've driven this nail clear through the board, and the ground beneath it, and it's on it's way to the center of the earth about now.  I GET IT!  Enough!

 

I'm not bashing Chuck, I'm running him over with a Buffalo BoMag.  Jimmy would always turn out to be 'who he is', but the kindness and errands he ran for that ungrateful fucker show who he really is, deeper inside? Just as nothing can change Jimmy and who he is, Nothing can change the fact that he has a neurotic, hateful, jealous and self righteous prick for a brother?

 

I am related to a 'Chuck' - I can pick my nose, ass and teams for March Madness, but I can't pick my relatives?

If they ever manage to redeem Chuck for me I will bow down and take back every word I'm saying about their writing and characters right now.  To do that though, they have to make Jimmy/Saul a true villain, pretty much without any redeeming qualities or understandable motivations.  Maybe it's because I want to be on Jimmy's side that I blame a ton of Jimmy's problems on Chuck.  Chuck WANTS to keep Jimmy in screw up mode, and actively works to make that happen, and to make others see him that way as well.

 

If Chuck becomes their "hero" I really may be out of here.

 

What I don't get is, just what IS Howard's problem with Kim? I don't think it can be just the video. Howard has appeared to get easily angered by Kim from the jump. Is it really her connection to Jimmy? Because he actually doesn't seem to mind Jimmy all that much. I got the impression that he actually felt bad about going THAT far to keep Jimmy out of the firm, at the behest of his brother. And the video....she didn't even have a part in making. All she did was watch it. HHM wasn't mentioned in the video, were they? I get that D&M might look badly at HHM for recommending a loose cannon like Jimmy, but can Howard really put that all on Kim? HE chose to offer the recommendation. He didn't have to do that. 

 

I don't know...is it just me? The way he is treating Kim seems grossly disproportional to what happened. 

Yeah, this is another one I want to talk about in a minute.  Character development is an issue for me now, I gave them time, but I'm just thisclose to being over it, especially after the endless "Kim makes phone calls" scenes, even though the payoff to that gave her an emmy nominee moment. 

 

I like Kim but devoting 20 minutes to her trying to drum up new business for the firm was a bit much. It seemed to me they dwelled on it just to get one colorful lineup of post-it notes after another on screen. Very artsy fartsy and it was kind of neat from a visual point of view. But it went on for way too long.

 

Also interesting: the show ran long. Why? There wasn't 7 or 8 minutes of Kim's phone calls they could cut out? Power struggle in the BCS production office?

Yes, as I said above this quote.  Exactly.

 

OK, now to my whole character development thing.

 

I am not against the slow burn.

I am not wanting this show to be Breaking Bad.

I love the time spent on the little moments, the silences, all of it.

 

That said, BCS isn't giving me a reason to give a shit about Howard (finally remembered his name after reading Tara's phenomenal recap.)  Just take Howard for a moment here, but it's applicable to many other characters (not the BB crossovers, the BCS only characters) on this show.  We ONLY see him at work, so we have no idea who this man is.  We know he was manipulated by Chuck to fire Jimmy.  We are supposed to think that he decided on his own to punish Kim in Dock Review, nothing to do with the man behind the curtain, Chuck.  We know he is a sharp dresser.  We know his daddy started the firm. 

 

That's really about it, for a character that's been on the show from the beginning.  There is no real person there, we see him do pivotal things, suing Jimmy, firing Jimmy, catering to Chuck, punishing Kim, but there is absolutely no insight as to who this guy is?  WHY?  Instead of an endless phone montage for Kim, can't we spend a few minutes getting to know this guy?  Who does he fuck?  What does his house or apartment look like?  Does he have kids, a drinking problem, make model airplanes, collect guns, write novels on the side, did he cheat on his bar exam, does he have siblings, parents, and ex wife, is he deeply in debt, have health issues, or is he lonely, had his heart broken, or etc. etc. etc.

 

I CAN NOT care about this man, because I don't know one damn thing about him.  (and you can take this criticism about every character on this show, other than Chuck, who was not on Breaking Bad first.)  Just give me something!  Hell, I knew more about Trudy, Pete Campbell's very seldom seen wife, on Mad Men in two brief appearances than I know about Howard in nearly two full seasons.

 

That is a problem.  I personally think it's turning into a big problem for me with this show.  I don't have to LIKE the characters, but I do need to have a glimpse into who they are as people, other wise, they are nothing more than props in the office.  There is SLOW, and then their is simply not giving a shit.  If the writers don't give a shit about the (non BB) characters on this show, why should I?  Howard's entire character so far on the show could have been done on a Charlie's Angels style intercom.

 

I will make one exception.  I think the writers told us quite a bit about Rebecca in two scenes, more of that please.  That's the kind of writing I want to see, and I hope they don't reduce her to a prop as well, because that was the first (other than Chuck) character they've introduced that shows a glimmer of being well written.

 

ETA

But the other new character, Erin, has no dimensions at all, a fault of the writing, or is it the actress' inability to imbue scenes with subtly or dimension?  Or is it because these writers have trouble writing complex women?  Whatever it is, she had a lot of scenes, and for me?  Did nothing with them, other than the bot effect of someone who follows the rules and blah blah.  YES, I get that people like her exist, but that doesn't make them interesting.  Another "prop" rather than interesting new character, and to me that is a shame.  If she just had a couple of moments of something that played against the very very very obvious new lawyer, anything!  A run in her pantyhose!  A slight gasp!  A tiny smile about the bribing before stepping in.  A stumble while trailing Jimmy through the office.  Give me a whole human being PLEASE, let her fix her lipstick while Jimmy was in the bathroom, and let that actress MAKE something of that moment.

 

ETA

I'm still in.  I still have a great deal of goodwill towards these writers, and I'm still hoping for the best.  This episode though, kind of pushed me over the edge.  The only fully developed people (basically the ones from BB, and Chuck) can't be the only interesting people on this show.  I do include Kim in that group, even though she got her break out episode supposedly last night, and she did have her little caper with Jimmy, and on Jimmy's side things.  Still, other than office and Jimmy we don't really get to know this woman, it's that that make characters worth watching, and it doesn't have to take a lot of time, it does have to take a lot of thought.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Umbelina

[futurechemist]

Fascinating for me.  Can you elaborate on how you, someone who never watched Breaking Bad, saw that scene?  Obviously I have, and I felt so much tension, just loved it.  I'm very interested to know how people who haven't had as much time with these two saw the scene.  For me it was one of the highlights of the episode, but is that only because at least those two characters HAVE been developed, where I think the lack of development on the BCS only characters is a severe failure at this point? 

I saw it as a family member of Tuco asking Mike to fix things for Tuco.  Clearly the family member was no stranger to crime - what with knowing a lot about jail terms for various offenses and being willing to bribe Mike into it.  But I didn't see the guy as any sort of drug kingpin, nor did I go "OMG it's HECTOR!".  I was more surprised that someone in Tuco's family/gang found Mike so quickly.  I also didn't see any direct threat if Mike says no.  Maybe people more familiar with Breaking Bad will have recognized it as an offer Mike can't refuse, but I didn't see it quite that way.  An offer Mike shouldn't ignore, but not one that he has to cower to.

 

Also, while the scene wasn't lighthearted for me, it wasn't really tense either.  I wasn't expecting any guns to be brought out or anything like that.

[ketose]

Let's be clear. Howard is a moron. Kim just handed him several million dollars (do you know what it would have cost in 2002 to buy an annuity that tossed off 250k a year in income, like that new client is going to provide, at a minimum?) , and he kicks her in the teeth? You can find chimps at the Albuquerque zoo who have more sense than that. 

That would be kind of a Jimmy reward, though. He makes it rain and ethics go out the window. Kim could have called people for hours a day when she wasn't in doc review and gotten a similar result. It's almost comparable to Jimmy's situation. He did a bad thing, so D&M got him a babysitter. His salvation would come from sucking it up and dealing with it until the partners trust him again. I doubt he'll do that. Kim will if she thinks she has a future at HHM.

 

Here's my store anecdote. My dad had a friend who owned a convenience store and connected laundromat. The friend, Ed, took in revenue from the laundromat and his brother-in-law had the store. The store made less and Ed would grab stuff from the store whenever. When my dad watched the store, I would come along a lot in high school. There weren't a lot of customers, but the laundromat was still open and that was the money maker.

 

Long story shorter, I would grab a drink and a snack pretty much every night, and I wasn't even related to the owner. That kind of shrinkage is pretty common. $14K is peanuts, especially if it's over a few years. If it were protection, I would think it was like $14,000 a year.

[Umbelina]

Fascinating for me.  Can you elaborate on how you, someone who never watched Breaking Bad, saw that scene?  Obviously I have, and I felt so much tension, just loved it.  I'm very interested to know how people who haven't had as much time with these two saw the scene.  For me it was one of the highlights of the episode, but is that only because at least those two characters HAVE been developed, where I think the lack of development on the BCS only characters is a severe failure at this point?

 

I saw it as a family member of Tuco asking Mike to fix things for Tuco.  Clearly the family member was no stranger to crime - what with knowing a lot about jail terms for various offenses and being willing to bribe Mike into it.  But I didn't see the guy as any sort of drug kingpin, nor did I go "OMG it's HECTOR!".  I was more surprised that someone in Tuco's family/gang found Mike so quickly.  I also didn't see any direct threat if Mike says no.  Maybe people more familiar with Breaking Bad will have recognized it as an offer Mike can't refuse, but I didn't see it quite that way.  An offer Mike shouldn't ignore, but not one that he has to cower to.

 

Also, while the scene wasn't lighthearted for me, it wasn't really tense either.  I wasn't expecting any guns to be brought out or anything like that.

Thank you so much for elaborating!

 

Well, maybe chalk that one up to another fail then.  As a BB watcher, I saw that scene completely differently.  Since we are in the BB talk included thread...

 

It was the first time I've EVER seen Mike look scared.

Hector scared the crap out of me (and Mike) but maybe that's only because I DO know who he is from BB? 

It was very tense for me, two old, dangerous men playing deadly chess, life and death chess, and Hector has a much better board position, maybe two queens somehow.

Simply by finding Mike so quickly though, didn't it make you think, at the very least "this guy has powerful connections?"

Edited March 15, 2016 by Umbelina

[peeayebee]

I enjoyed this ep. I also thought watching Kim work so hard in the doc room and in making phone calls was interesting. If we hadn't had so many minutes devoted to her calling in the stairwell over and over, never giving up, then the callback from her friend wouldn't have had the same impact, and the reaction from Howard (to get back to the docs) wouldn't have either. 

 

I enjoy so many of the characters. The only one that I wish the show would do more with is Howard. 

 

I think Erin is a fun character, and I have a feeling that Jimmy is going to benefit from her help with company minutia. 

[ketose]

I am curious about how Mike's meeting with Hector plays into his future employment on Breaking Bad.

[ShadowFacts]

 

It was the first time I've EVER seen Mike look scared.

Hector scared the crap out of me (and Mike) but maybe that's only because I DO know who he is from BB?

It was very tense for me, two old, dangerous men playing deadly chess, life and death chess, and Hector has a much better board position, maybe two queens somehow.

Simply by finding Mike so quickly though, didn't it make you think, at the very least "this guy has powerful connections?"

 

I think if the only thing you know is that Hector is a family member of the very volatile and violent Tuco, and that Hector found where Mike has breakfast, you would probably realize Mike has a big problem on his hands here.  Mike's big concern is Kaylee and Stacy's safety, and now these criminals have been watching him.  Pretty worrisome. 

 

 

[Umbelina]

I just want to say, I really hate that I'm posting anything negative about this show.  I'm pulling for it so much.

 

That said, I stand by my posts that point out what I feel are important flaws.

 

Really, if Howard got hit by a truck and was off the show tomorrow would anyone care?  Would the loss of this pretty major character matter at all, in any non-plot point way?  We don't even know the guy, or really know most of these people, if they weren't already on BB.  I want the characters I'm spending time with to be more than simple plot points for Chuck or for Jimmy, be more complex than that, more interesting.

 

Yes, sure, we may get slow reveals on them eventually, but what is there to make them interesting to me for the last season and a half, other than, as I said, their usefulness as plot points?

[SignGuy77]

Thank you so much for elaborating!

Well, maybe chalk that one up to another fail then. As a BB watcher, I saw that scene completely differently. Since we are in the BB talk included thread...

It was the first time I've EVER seen Mike look scared.

Hector scared the crap out of me (and Mike) but maybe that's only because I DO know who he is from BB?

It was very tense for me, two old, dangerous men playing deadly chess, life and death chess, and Hector has a much better board position, maybe two queens somehow.

Simply by finding Mike so quickly though, didn't it make you think, at the very least "this guy has powerful connections?"

I got this idea last night, and I can't shake it. Maybe Nacho is double crossing Mike now, helping Hector find him, and hoping that the ensuing confrontation leaves at least one of them dead.

But then, it wouldn't take too much research for Hector and a few foot soldiers to get info on Mike without outside help. If Tuco was already by this time well entrenched in the ABQ crime scene, anyone he put on it would probably get the job done.

What I guess I'm getting at is, the diner scene works with or without having seen Breaking Bad. One seasoned criminal confronted by another; veiled threat disguised as an "offer he can't refuse;" decisions to be made. Can't wait to see where this goes.

[SignGuy77]

I just want to say, I really hate that I'm posting anything negative about this show. I'm pulling for it so much.

That said, I stand by my posts that point out what I feel are important flaws.

Really, if Howard got hit by a truck and was off the show tomorrow would anyone care? Would the loss of this pretty major character matter at all, in any non-plot point way? We don't even know the guy, or really know most of these people, if they weren't already on BB. I want the characters I'm spending time with to be more than simple plot points for Chuck or for Jimmy, be more complex than that, more interesting.

Yes, sure, we may get slow reveals on them eventually, but what is there to make them interesting to me for the last season and a half, other than, as I said, their usefulness as plot points?

I understand your misgivings, though I don't share most of them. I have a feeling Howard is going to get a little flashback sometime soon, just in time for some big plot turn.

Don't forget we were cleverly led to believe he was Asshole #1 in the first season until the big Chuck reveal. Since then Howard has showed a few glimpses of sympathy for Kim/Jimmy and then went back to towing the party line and doing Chuck's bidding. Something is holding him back. Is it a personal vendetta? Is it fear of stepping out of bounds? I think we will see.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Long story shorter, I would grab a drink and a snack pretty much every night, and I wasn't even related to the owner. That kind of shrinkage is pretty common. $14K is peanuts, especially if it's over a few years. If it were protection, I would think it was like $14,000 a year.

It could also have just been bookkeeping errors. Maybe Jimmy was a little sloppy, expenses didn't get recorded, that sort of thing.

[Umbelina]

It could also have just been bookkeeping errors. Maybe Jimmy was a little sloppy, expenses didn't get recorded, that sort of thing.

Or the dad, who "wasn't a businessman."

 

Actually the dad sounds much more like Jimmy than Chuck.  He knew everyone's name, everyone in the neighborhood loved him, he wanted to work for himself.

 

Oh dang!  I just had a flash.

 

Please, please, please don't be that Rebecca dies because of Jimmy!  Honestly, I will be so pissed.  For example, if the go out for a drunken evening of fun and Jimmy, inebriated, crashes the car and she dies.  NO! 

 

Let it be that she lets her freak flag fly because Jimmy makes her long for fun, let it be anything other than Jimmy gets her killed with his recklessness!

Edited March 16, 2016 by Umbelina

[Bannon]

That would be kind of a Jimmy reward, though. He makes it rain and ethics go out the window. Kim could have called people for hours a day when she wasn't in doc review and gotten a similar result. It's almost comparable to Jimmy's situation. He did a bad thing, so D&M got him a babysitter. His salvation would come from sucking it up and dealing with it until the partners trust him again. I doubt he'll do that. Kim will if she thinks she has a future at HHM.

 

Here's my store anecdote. My dad had a friend who owned a convenience store and connected laundromat. The friend, Ed, took in revenue from the laundromat and his brother-in-law had the store. The store made less and Ed would grab stuff from the store whenever. When my dad watched the store, I would come along a lot in high school. There weren't a lot of customers, but the laundromat was still open and that was the money maker.

 

Long story shorter, I would grab a drink and a snack pretty much every night, and I wasn't even related to the owner. That kind of shrinkage is pretty common. $14K is peanuts, especially if it's over a few years. If it were protection, I would think it was like $14,000 a year.

Well, it is incredibly stupid to have someone in document review, when they have the ability (and lemme tell ya', it is incredibly rare) and non-stop drive, to get on the telephone, and produce millions of dollars. You don't have neurosurgeons trimming the hedges in front of the hospital. It's potentially a hole in the writing (and I really see where Umbelina is coming from with her misgivings about the Howard character) if they don't adequately explain why Howard is behaving like an incredible dunce. His first remark should have been, as the new clients drove away, and she suggested the follow up strategy, "Yes, of course, we will want you maintain some contact for continuity's sake, but I also want you put together a presentation on marketing, so we can get some sense of how you are going to do this again".  Howard is a partner in a blue-chip law firm. Nothing is more important than getting blue chip clients on retainer. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by Bannon

[Irlandesa]

It felt like the theme of this episode was wanting to control your own destiny, at least on the HHM and Davis & Main side of things.  Jimmy wants to do things his way but Erin was there to make sure Davis & Main keep control to make sure Jimmy did it the "appropriate" way.  Kim wanted to believe that she could control her destiny out of doc review and Howard, who likely knew what she was hoping, wanted to control when he allowed her back into the fold.  (And I do think he has every intention of doing so.)

 

I also get Chuck's frustration with Jimmy.  Jimmy is the charismatic one.  He's the one who will offer to change someone's tire at cost, actually charge twice of what he paid for the parts and do so with a smile.  And when the person who was screwed over finds out, he/she is mad but the next time they ned a tire changed....they consider Jimmy.

 

Well, maybe chalk that one up to another fail then.  As a BB watcher, I saw that scene completely differently.  Since we are in the BB talk included thread...

I'm not sure how two people experiencing a scene differently equals a fail.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but that would imply that the show has one way it intends you to view things. And that is pretty much the opposite of how Vince Gilligan expects people to watch his show.  Whenever he's interviewed and he's asked an opinion, 99% of the time he gives his opinion on how he sees it but also acknowledges that this show is out of his control once it airs and that how a fan experiences it is as equally valid as to how he experiences it.  

 

I got on the "Walter White is not sympathetic" bandwagon pretty early on.  A lot of people took a lot longer (and some never) to see him that same way.  it doesn't mean Breaking Bad failed with Walter White.

 

t was nice to see Tio.  I didn't feel the diner scene was super intense, probably because I know how much of a badass Mike is.  I don't think the fact that I didn't experience the tension as much as others means the show failed in its telling or I failed in my viewing.  There's plenty of time for me to feel tension depending on how the show employs the Salamancas in the future. 

 

Take Howard, for example, I know you couldn't care less about him and that's valid.  But for me, I think we know quite a bit about him for the amount of airtime he has received. I wish I knew more of about him because he kind of fascinates me but that doesn't mean the time I have spent with him feels like a waste.  Last season he seemed like the one in control keeping Jimmy away.  Then we found out that it wasn't him but rather Chuck.  And then in this episode a lot of us suspected Jimmy was right and it was Chuck keeping Kim in doc review only to find out that it was Howard.  I would love to know the story there. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by Irlandesa

[Lurky McLurkerson]

Doc review is the most thankless grunt work in the legal profession, as far as I've experienced. A firm I worked for as a young lawyer had a client so cheap they wouldn't bother to pay for air conditioning or heat outside of 9-5, so if we had to work off-hours, we had to sweat or freeze in a conference room the size of a bathroom stall (where six of us were using double screens to do the work). I worked at one place that stuffed extra reviewers into the breakroom, elbow-to-elbow. Literally their chairs would scrape against each other when they got up to use the bathroom. Those visits were monitored for length, by the way.

 

At best, doc reviewers are an afterthought. If there's no overhead lighting in the basement already, no one's going to put any in for the sake of some newly minted JDs.

This is absolutely true, though now clients are also not paying for Big Law associates to do document review -- they use technology-assisted review or hire contract attorneys for about $35/hour.  (I will also say that I don't blame clients for refusing to foot the law firm's HVAC bills.  They're already paying hundreds of dollars per attorney per hour.  Climate control is a cost of doing business, and that firms were once passing their utility costs through to clients for after-hours work is just insane to me.  I have worked many a climate-control-less weekend/evening at a Big Law firm, and it's miserable, but I put that on the firm.)

 

If I had a quarter for every associate who grumbled to me that they didn't go to law school to do document review, I'd have a vacation home by now.

[Starchild]

Just take Howard for a moment here....  We ONLY see him at work, so we have no idea who this man is

Interesting. I've heard that the only way to truly know someone is to work with them, or live with them.