S01.E04: Episode Four

[ApathyMonger]

Quote

Roper welcomes Pine into his inner circle, leaving Corky out in the cold.

 

Meanwhile, Burr has concerns for the safety of her source when she suspects key information has been leaked to the River House.

[ApathyMonger]

After complaining last week about Colman's scenes, she absolutely brought it in this episode. The England stuff actually felt like part of the plot at last.

 

That boss character was a bit too much of a naive idiot though, showing those documents.

[staveDarsky]

After the way Corky acted in the restaurant, I honestly expected the US agent to find him among the dead in the Spaniard's house.

[NorthstarATL]

Any time the group goes anywhere nice horrble things happen. It almost doesn't pay to be rich! Colman bothered me quite a lot in the previous episodes, but the scene where she gave her motivations was well done. Hiddleston is amazing. I totally buy the way characters react to him. The scenery again is beautiful. I just love looking at it.

[atomationage]

Laurie and Hiddleston make a great team.  Roper seems more loyal to Corky than I thought he would be. 

[halopub]

After the way Corky acted in the restaurant, I honestly expected the US agent to find him among the dead in the Spaniard's house.

 

I was amused that in all his drunken despair that he also made sure to grope Pine. And in front of le Carré, no less.

 

Any time the group goes anywhere nice horrble things happen.

 

Hee!

 

Good things

• I loved Rex Mayhew's righteous indignation to being threatened. I don't think I've seen Douglas Hodge in anything else but he's good.
• Unlike episode one, the documents were coded this time and had to be translated by an insider.
• Pine getting to deploy his charm at both the restaurant and the bank.
• Getting to understand some of Angela's personal motivation in all this.
• Hiddleston changing things like his walk in different scenes.

[Athena]

The show is becoming much more tense and suspenseful which is good. The England scenes were better as well. Good stuff.

 

Hiddleston is amazing. I totally buy the way characters react to him. The scenery again is beautiful. I just love looking at it.

 

In the scene where Jed says, "Everyone is attracted to you." This would be a corny and contrived line to say to a lot of actors, but even with my Hiddleston bias, it's actually believable because he is extremely good at playing everyone in this series. It's hard not to be attracted to him. I think this series is becoming one of Hiddleston's best roles so far. The character is becoming a bit of a  sociopath and further unhinged.

[formerlyfreedom]

Originally aired in the UK on 13 March 2016. Airing in the US on Tuesday, May 10, 2016. Entering the thread before airing WILL spoil you!

[Primetimer]

Stupid spies! You ruined Angela's week!

View the full article

[Amethyst]

Better than last week, I thought.  But that was the sex scene everyone was talking about?  Two minutes, no nudity and it was over.  Not really tense or sexy, Pine and Jed basically said "let's screw" and they did.  No big deal.

The restaurant scene was hilarious.  I was cracking up at Corky openly groping Pine like that.  

Loved Angela this week.  She's afraid of losing control over Pine, but she's even more scared of losing the whole thing with Roper.

I miss Danny.  He and Pine have great scenes together and he adds a nice levity to the plot.

Did not expect that bit in the end with the bodies.  Just gruesome.  

[Moose135]

On 3/28/2016 at 11:34 AM, halopub said:

And in front of le Carré, no less.

I didn't know that was le Carré - I don't think I've seen a photo of him in ages, probably from an old book dust jacket picture.  I see from IMDB that he's made appearances in a couple of other movies based on his books, I think that's cool!

[La Tortuga]

I started laughing when Hugh Laurie ordered an evacuation because of the presence of "coppers." Maybe that expression is still in frequent use in Britain, but for me, I was curious why Roper would be using 80-year-old slang. It's not that I didn't understand it; it's that the anachronistic choice of words almost makes it seem like Roper's not taking the situation quite as seriously as I would have expected.

[magdalene]

That was a gorgeous Kaftan Jed was wearing at the beginning.  I do find it lovely seeing her and Pine together, both so  beautiful and tall. . 

[VCRTracking]

Damn, Tom Hollander and Olivia Colman were amazing in this episode.

[Which Tyler]

5 hours ago, La Tortuga said:

I started laughing when Hugh Laurie ordered an evacuation because of the presence of "coppers." Maybe that expression is still in frequent use in Britain, but for me, I was curious why Roper would be using 80-year-old slang. It's not that I didn't understand it; it's that the anachronistic choice of words almost makes it seem like Roper's not taking the situation quite as seriously as I would have expected.

Still in common use in the UK

[kay1864]

Who killed the Spanish lawyer and how did he get outed?

Oops, never mind, just read in the recap that Roper thought he leaked the documents, so I guess Roper's got AssassinUber on his phone.  And the MI6 guy told someone at Roper's group?

So is that what Roper's mysterious phone call was about, on the pier?

Edited May 11, 2016 by kay1864

[attica]

Quote

But that was the sex scene everyone was talking about?  Two minutes, no nudity and it was over.  Not really tense or sexy, Pine and Jed basically said "let's screw" and they did.  No big deal.

It was pretty trimmed down for US airing. The original was a noticeably longer scene, which included visible Debickiboob and a generous helping of Hiddlesbum.  I found myself suprised at how hot I thought it was that TH had to lean up to kiss ED. Not by much, but definitely up.

Tradecraft 101: when talking on the phone to someone you shouldn't be talking to, it is actually easy to avoid using each other's names. And yet neither Pine nor Jed could manage it in two freaking sentences. Sigh.

Watching Rex Mayhew work himself up into a bureaucratic froth after his bicycle adventure made me laugh. Spend unbudgeted money! That'll teach 'em!!!! But Hodge's flickering, hesitant smiles of recognition when Angela asked him who Halo and Felix were? Sublime.

I love the wardrobing on Debicki. So many flowing garments, foaming like waves off Palma.

[Athena]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

That said, what the hell is Pine doing?  Corky is looking for any reason to get rid of Pine.  He knows that Roper's wife went to see Pine at the cottage.  Why in the world doesn't Pine try to keep a safe distant from Roper's wife?  Why in the world did he have a quicky with her, when he has to know that Corky has to be watching him?

Because... plot? Hehe. To be fair, Pine being weak or reckless around women has been established in character. He seems to have a white knight complex. He's conventionally attractive as well which does not hurt him getting in these situations. Jed is Roper's long time girlfriend; it doesn't seem like they are legally married.

I know it was wrong, but I laughed when Corky started groping Pine in the restaurant like that.

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, Amethyst said:

 I was cracking up at Corky openly groping Pine like that.

I'd go for it, too! Hee.

50 minutes ago, attica said:

I love the wardrobing on Debicki. So many flowing garments, foaming like waves off Palma.

She looks amazing. 

I was surprised Angela wants to get Pine out. This is as close as she'll ever get to Roper, and suddenly she gets cold feet? She should trust that Pine, IMO.

I was also surprised that Rex showed the documents to a fellow officer when Angela specifically and clearly told him not to. Is he really that terrible a player?

[kay1864]

Yeah, the trimmed sex scene looked weird in the AMC version.  Didn't seem like it could be genuinely enjoyable by either character.

Is the BBC version available on Netflix/Hulu/etc.?

[attica]

Quote

I was also surprised that Rex showed the documents to a fellow officer when Angela specifically and clearly told him not to. Is he really that terrible a player?

Well, Pamela is his boss. Still stupid, but a bit more believable. (She's also Lady Mae on Mr. Selfridge.)

Ah! Due to internet insistence, AMC has put the Hiddlesbum up at their site.

Edited May 11, 2016 by attica
ready for that jelly

[scrb]

Why did they need the Spanish lawyer and then the Turkish lawyer at all?

Or for that matter, Andrew Birch to sign documents and then when they trade the weapons, the deal is consummated with an iris scan and the banker on the phone saying, yeah, you're good to go to the Russian guy (since he offered vodka as a gift)?

I'm sure the cell phone bit was something they shoehorned in, not what Lecarre had  in the book.  But then again, is Roper ultimately going to be done in by documentary evidence?

I know bad spies are common in Lecarre but how much so in real life?  Looks like River House is full of moles on Roper's payroll.  What about the US spies?  Some of the arms are from US arms manufacturers so there would have to be some kind of govt. insiders to get around export restrictions.  Yet they have lonely principled agents, Burr in the UK and the one CIA guy trying to stop Roper.  Yet in this time period, the intelligence community's major preoccupation would be with Afghanistan, Iraq, Isis, Libya, etc.

[Amethyst]

4 hours ago, attica said:

It was pretty trimmed down for US airing. The original was a noticeably longer scene, which included visible Debickiboob and a generous helping of Hiddlesbum.  I found myself suprised at how hot I thought it was that TH had to lean up to kiss ED. Not by much, but definitely up.

I suspected they'd trimmed it down considerably, so thanks for clarifying.  They didn't do a good job of it, since that they had to put the full version up on AMC's website after teasing about it so much.  Although I'm now tempted to call them Debeckiboob and Hiddlesbum respectively, lol.

IA that Pine is pretty foolish to hook up with Jed.  It doesn't help that the romance feels forced.  But if Roper already knew about Jed having a son, I wouldn't be surprised if he quickly found out about Jed and Pine, especially since Corky has already warned Roper about Pine.

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, attica said:

Well, Pamela is his boss. Still stupid, but a bit more believable.

Angela and Rex know the MOD is involved somewhere. Eh, there's a lot of dumb for plot reasons that I have to overlook.  

[magdalene]

It's good to know AMC is protecting our delicate sensibilities from exposed boobs and bums even at the 10 PM hour, while giving us generous helpings of gory violence on their Zombie and upcoming The Preacher series. 

[scrb]

I think they edited Humans too didn't they?

But their other shows use some cursing?

[halopub]

20 hours ago, Moose135 said:

I didn't know that was le Carré - I don't think I've seen a photo of him in ages, probably from an old book dust jacket picture.  I see from IMDB that he's made appearances in a couple of other movies based on his books, I think that's cool!

Apparently he and Hiddleston spent a fun hour filming that meal apology.

I didn't watch it very closely, but that dinner scene also felt different on AMC. 

18 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Damn, Tom Hollander and Olivia Colman were amazing in this episode.

This is where I think not bingeing on the episodes helps. I initially watched the episodes back to back and I felt Corky's comic relief / threatening speechifying got annoyingly repetitive every hour. The character also felt increasingly like it was treading on gay villain tropes. By waiting a full week in between episodes, I think it's easier to appreciate not only the standout dinner scene, but subtler beats like Corky's serious expression of concern after his latest threat to Pine. 

[ratgirlagogo]

23 hours ago, Moose135 said:

I didn't know that was le Carré

Woof, me neither.  I'm really liking this show.  So refreshing that everything will be wrapped up in the next two episodes!  

[scrb]

Pine is not some cool and poised James Bond.  He gets emotionally involved and then acts rashly.

He did a good job of getting in with Roper and sneaking out intel.  But if they catch Roper, it could be in spite of Pine, not because of him.

[Texasmom1970]

I heart Olivia Colman that is all!

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, halopub said:

The character also felt increasingly like it was treading on gay villain tropes.

I've been feeling this, too, and I watch the show when it airs. Corky's weakness is that he's a sloppy drunk, not that he's gay. The dinner scene in this episode did a much better job of emphasizing that.

[Athena]

25 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I've been feeling this, too, and I watch the show when it airs. Corky's weakness is that he's a sloppy drunk, not that he's gay. The dinner scene in this episode did a much better job of emphasizing that.

I binged the show after its first airing, and I found Corky the same. He drinks in every episode. It makes him dangerous and unreliable too. He's cocky as well. I found his attraction to Pine incidental almost but drives home what Jed said about Pine being attractive. Most of this series is based on the premise that characters find Pine, the night manager, charismatic and confident. Even Angela does because she would not have placed him as a double agent to begin with.

[thuganomics85]

Ah, so in probably the least surprising news yet, Pine and Jed finally hook up, despite all the reasons this will probably end up being a bad thing for both of them.  Also not surprised to hear that the UK version was longer then this one, because there definitely was a lot of quick and random cutaways, that were clearly because AMC was cutting around the nudity.  After-all, zombie guts and people getting their faces off is fine, but Tom Hiddleston's ass and Elizabeth Debicki's breasts might scar people for life, I guess (FX though, wouldn't had give a damn. They'd probably have both of them show their asses every episode.)

But I guess the other reason for the hook-up was to understandably freak Angela out and want to pull the plug, only for Pine to ignore her orders, and continue his quest to takedown Roper.  He better hope that she still knows he is on their side, and didn't just join Team Roper, because who doesn't love getting to jet around to various, beautiful locations?  Poor Angela though, is probably going to have a meltdown at the rate things are going for them.

Corky, Corky, Corky!  I have to think your drunken antics will only be tolerated by Roper for so long.  The funny thing is that he pretty much is on the money about Pine, but he just keeps making himself worse by the way he tries to approach it.  I know he's an awful person, but Tom Hollander is just so much fun in this role.

Olivia Colman was killer in that scene about Angela reflecting on the time she saw those kids get brutally murdered by chemical weapons, and why she hates Roper so much.  She truly is a treasure.

I kept waiting for something bad to happen to Joel/David Harewood, when he was searching his house.  I guess finding two brutally murdered bodies is bad, but it could have been worse.

I love Tobias Menzies, but I was laughing at his one scene, where he really went from zero to a hundred in two seconds, when it came to the character talking normally to shouting and screaming.  It reminded me of that infamous Gary Oldman "EVERYONE!" scene from Leon: The Professional.

So, basically Roper is using Pine to be a face in all transactions with some new weapons deal, and use him and all of his information to do it, instead of Roper himself.  That would make it harder to prove Roper's nefarious deeds, I guess, but I'm sure Pine will try and think of something.

Looking forward to seeing where this goes next.  It might not be the greatest, but I've pretty much come to accept that this show is a typical spy thriller, that is elevated by great scenery and an excellent cast.  And that is good enough for me!  Plus, it's already over halfway done, so at least it won't feel like I wasted too much time.  Again though, I've been enjoying it enough on its own.

[Neurochick]

My problem with the Pine/Jed hookup is that I find Jed VERY unattractive, so I don't get it.  However, I watched one of the extras on AMC and it was explained that Pine's attraction to Jed is because she, like him is playing a part, she doesn't belong in Roper's world, she's an outsider.  Also Pine is a typical "white knight" type person, always poised to save the damsel in distress.  Maybe he saw Jed and thought, "she doesn't belong here."  

I still don't think Jed is attractive at all, too flat chested, no curves, but YMMV.

[Quilt Fairy]

Ay yi yi, the plot of this show is driving me crazy!  What purpose is the character of Andrew Birch supposed to serve?  At every single juncture, Roper is there telling him what to do next, when it seems like Roper could very easily do it himself. He's like a puppeteer with a marionette. Surely a smart criminal like Pine is supposed to be would be aware that he's being set up to take the fall!

[Captanne]

I'm in the US and am watching as it airs here -- I thought "Andrew Birch" was the alias Roper gave Pine as the owner of his new "company".  The company is the firm (pun intended) proof that Pine has been accepted and now has skin in the game.  If Pine is a crook, which he's pretending to be, that would be a big advantage for him and highly desirable.  He's "in" with a multimillionaire arms dealer and has a company of his own.  

He's also taking the fall as Roper's frontman if things go south.

More importantly, "Andrew Birch" is his new passport.  I was watching a show the other day where an Australian complained that he didn't want to go on a trip because he hadn't bothered getting a passport.  The snipe back from his girlfriend was, "No passport?  What are you?  An American?"  To the rest of the world, a passport is a lifeline.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Captanne

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

At every single juncture, Roper is there telling him what to do next, when it seems like Roper could very easily do it himself.

Not only is Andrew Birch the name on Pine's new passport, it's the name on the company that is fronting for Roper in the arms deal. It means Birch is on the hook if something goes wrong, not Roper.

[Milburn Stone]

On May 16, 2016 at 9:52 AM, dubbel zout said:

Not only is Andrew Birch the name on Pine's new passport, it's the name on the company that is fronting for Roper in the arms deal. It means Birch is on the hook if something goes wrong, not Roper.

This brings to mind a big question I have. When Angela's people listened in on Jed's call to Jonathan in Istanbul, which resulted in Angela giving Jonathan the order to get out ASAP (which he ignored), was her reason:

1. That she now knew that Andrew Quince was Jonathan Pine, and that if he stayed and went through with the deal, he would be implicated in such a way that she would not be able to save him from life imprisonment? (But that doesn't make sense, because if her people were already in the hotel, they'd already confirmed that Andrew Quince was Jonathan Pine.)

2. That she knew that if her own people were listening in on Jed's call, that this meant Roper's people were listening in on Jed's phone call, and Jonathan's life was now in jeopardy?

3. Something else?

P.S. If answering, please don't spoil anything that occurs in Five or Six. I haven't watched yet. :)

Edited July 12, 2016 by Milburn Stone

[Ailianna]

I think it meant two things.  1--He's dumb enough to get involved with someone he's investigating, and who has a lethally jealous boyfriend.  2--His impartiality is forever compromised by that call should they actually get a chance to arrest Roper, since it's pretty clear to a lot of people that she's not calling for professional reasons.

[Gweilo]

I love Hugh Laurie to the moon and back but I'm really not buying the menace part of his "suave with an undercurrent of menace" character. The only glimpse of his monstrous side came from Olivia Coleman's sports day speech (which I thought was great).

I'm enjoying watching this series, but by god everyone in this show is SO BAD at spycraft.