All Episodes Discussion: The Daily Double

[opus]

\This NFL teams logo is the only one that is a plant/

The Fleur de Lis is NOT an NFL team.

[teebax]

\This NFL teams logo is the only one that is a plant/

The Fleur de Lis is NOT an NFL team.

I came here to say the same thing. There was a weird editing cut right before thry revealed the responses, so I imagine there was some discussion about it. The now ex-champ was robbed.

[ottoDbusdriver]

That "what does it measure" category in the Jeopardy round was ridiculously easy.

 

Seriously, Pi Day was a $1000 clue.  Eustachian tube was the answer to a DD clue.

 

Considering how badly these 3 contestants started out (all in negative numbers at one point), they managed to comeback somewhat -- though the returning champ took it on the chin twice with two misses on the DDs in the Double Jeopardy round.

 

I guess Cyle though it was 'Talk like a Pirate Day' -- Arrgh !!!

Edited November 8, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[SyracuseMug]

\This NFL teams logo is the only one that is a plant/

The Fleur de Lis is NOT an NFL team.

I haven't yet seen the episode, but if the question is correctly quoted, it appears that they're talking about the LOGO of an NFL team, not the NFL team itself.

[teebax]

If they had said "this Nfl team logo..." I'd agree. But they said "this nfl team's logo" which means they're looking for the name of the team, not the logo.

[opus]

I paused the TV, and wrote the question exactly as they wrote it. I was also grumpy because I'm a big sports fan, but couldn't come up with the right answer in time.

[CarpeDiem54]

Yeah, I thought they were looking for the New Orleans Saints.

[opus]

The champion (Charlie?) would have won otherwise, right? I should jot that name down somewhere, and see if he pops back up on the show again.

[WickedTuna]

I came here to say the same thing. There was a weird editing cut right before thry revealed the responses, so I imagine there was some discussion about it. The now ex-champ was robbed.

I thought he was too but I have such a bad case of CRS i couldn't remember the wording of the clue so I thought maybe i was wrong. They gave her way too much leeway in answering.

[The Wild Sow]

Alex said they would have accepted either Saints or Fleur de Lis.

 

But damn that was a tough clue!  We also paused the TV and mentally went through all the teams we could think of, and The Wild Boar came up with the Saints (but it took him way longer than 30 seconds!)

 

Me, I just got stuck on team names (or mascots) and tried to come up with the non-human and non-animal ones (like Chargers, Browns, or Jets) but never thought of the Saints' Fleur de Lis.  Of course, our team's logo is "3 hypocycloids!"  Which are also not a plant <g>!

[opus]

Alex said they would have accepted either Saints or Fleur de Lis.

 

But damn that was a tough clue!  We also paused the TV and mentally went through all the teams we could think of, and The Wild Boar came up with the Saints (but it took him way longer than 30 seconds!)

 

Me, I just got stuck on team names (or mascots) and tried to come up with the non-human and non-animal ones (like Chargers, Browns, or Jets) but never thought of the Saints' Fleur de Lis.  Of course, our team's logo is "3 hypocycloids!"  Which are also not a plant <g>!

Why am I being tortured by NFL helmets today. Who has 3 hypocyloids? Steelers?

[Moose135]

Why am I being tortured by NFL helmets today. Who has 3 hypocyloids? Steelers?

 

Yes...

http://www.steelers.com/history/logo-history.html

[peeayebee]

The game we got here tonight was the Fleur de Lis one, which meant they didn't air the previous one where Charles became the champ. Reading about it here, I know I wouldn't have gotten Cuzco.

 

I wasn't paying super close attention tonight, so I didn't notice the wording of FJ. Very sloppy writing. Also, I don't consider the fleur de lis to be a plant.

 

I've never seen the spelling of 'Cyle' for 'Kyle.' The other night one contestant was 'Aric' (Eric). I guess I should stop being surprised by differently spelled names.

[opus]

The contestants haven't been that great lately. Maybe they just spelled their names wrong.

[Moose135]

The other night one contestant was 'Aric' (Eric). I guess I should stop being surprised by differently spelled names.

 

There is a NASCAR driver named Aric Almirola - he's Cuban-American, which may be the reason for the spelling of his name.

[teebax]

Alex said they would have accepted either Saints or Fleur de Lis.

 

But damn that was a tough clue!  We also paused the TV and mentally went through all the teams we could think of, and The Wild Boar came up with the Saints (but it took him way longer than 30 seconds!)

 

Me, I just got stuck on team names (or mascots) and tried to come up with the non-human and non-animal ones (like Chargers, Browns, or Jets) but never thought of the Saints' Fleur de Lis.  Of course, our team's logo is "3 hypocycloids!"  Which are also not a plant <g>!

I got it right away, but I was the only one in my room (3 other people) who did. We all came out of our seats when they accepted fleur de lis and agreed it shouldn't have been accepted. I think we'll see Charlie again.

[Prevailing Wind]

Charlie had a way of hesitating and then coming up with the right response.  I had a feeling he was acting, which is why I was so dumbfounded that he missed eustachian tube.  I thought he was just acting again and would blurt it out in time.

 

I did like the 3-D category and no way is a fleur-de-lis a plant.  I said Redskins - thinking of the potato.  hahahaha.

[peeayebee]

Yeah, his hesitating was weird. Like you, I thought he must have been pretending for some reason. Maybe he just likes to take his time and weigh his answers before speaking.

[Browncoat]

Fleur=flower and  lis=lily, so fleur de lis is a plant.  A stylized version of a plant, but still a plant.

[SyracuseMug]

I got it right away, but I was the only one in my room (3 other people) who did. We all came out of our seats when they accepted fleur de lis and agreed it shouldn't have been accepted. I think we'll see Charlie again.

The category was "Team Logos," and the fleur de lis is a team logo.

 

While it's true that fleur de lis is not an NFL team, it is also true that New Orleans Saints is not a plant. We can argue about the phrasing of the question, but Alex covered that by saying that either response would have been acceptable.

 

Charlie's answer was simply wrong, either way. That's why he's gone, and that's why he won't be returning.

[Totale]

I don't think this season's crop of clue writers and judges would be good contestants on Jeopardy.  I take and fail the online test every year, and I have to think there's something wrong with the selection process if it lets these dullards through and excludes lovely telegenic people with some actual general knowledge of the damn world they live in such as myself (kidding).

[augmentedfourth]

The category was "Team Logos," and the fleur de lis is a team logo.

 

While it's true that fleur de lis is not an NFL team, it is also true that New Orleans Saints is not a plant. We can argue about the phrasing of the question, but Alex covered that by saying that either response would have been acceptable.

 

Charlie's answer was simply wrong, either way. That's why he's gone, and that's why he won't be returning.

This, exactly.

 

The question was worded awkwardly, and I'll admit to being initially surprised when fleur de lis was ruled correct, because my inclination would have been to answer the team's name. However, in examining it more closely, I don't know if it's technically wrong. It's a bit of a stretch, but I guess it depends on how you parse "this team's logo". It seems we were all thinking this team's/logo, but it's probably not incorrect to think this/team's logo (making it a phrase like nurse's station or boys' school, etc.). Like I said, I know it's a stretch, but am I making any sense here?

 

Regardless, the ultimate decision was made to accept either the team OR the logo, and Charlie wasn't even in the ballpark for either one. I remember a number of years ago, there was a really awkwardly-worded FJ question about the NATO alphabet (I think), and it really wasn't clear whether they were going for Z or Zulu in the answer. If memory serves, the returning champ interpreted it the opposite way and was ruled incorrect, but later, the decision was reversed and she was allowed to come back. The big difference there, though, was that she still picked one of the two acceptable answers, whereas Charlie did not.

[teebax]

You don't answer based on the category; you answer based on the clue.

The clue was looking for a team, not a logo. That Alex said either would be acceptable doesn't make the answer being accepted any more fair. The judges were wrong, and she shouldn't have won.

Charlie didn't need to be in the ballpark. If they'd ruled appropriately, he would have won regardless of his incorrect answer.

I can't say with certainty Charie will be back, but I think it would be unfair if he's not.

And the writers need to word their clues much better, so as to eliminate these types of debates. That clue could have easily been written differently to avoid the ambiguity.

Edited November 8, 2014 by teebax

[CarpeDiem54]

You don't answer based on the category; you answer based on the clue.

The clue was looking for a team, not a logo. That Alex said either would be acceptable doesn't make the answer being accepted any more fair. The judges were wrong, and she shouldn't have won.

Charlie didn't need to be in the ballpark. If they'd ruled appropriately, he would have won regardless of his incorrect answer.

I can't say with certainty Charie will be back, but I think it would be unfair if he's not.

And the writers need to word their clues much better, so as to eliminate these types of debates. That clue could have easily been written differently to avoid the ambiguity.

True. It could have said either, "The name of the NFL team whose logo is a plant" or "Name of the logo of an NFL team that is a plant". Edited November 8, 2014 by CarpeDiem54

[Bastet]

And the writers need to word their clues much better, so as to eliminate these types of debates. That clue could have easily been written differently to avoid the ambiguity.

 

I didn't see the episode, but if what was written here ("This NFL teams logo") is accurate, all they needed to do was add an apostrophe:  "This NFL team's logo ..."  If a contestant misreads it and answers with the logo instead of the team, they're wrong.  (And too bad for them; reading the clue correctly is part of the game.)  People do that all the time - give the title when the clue wanted the author, give the city when the clue sought the state of which that city is capital, etc. - and Alex just rules them incorrect, often with a reminder of why it was wrong.

[Abstract]

I've never seen the spelling of 'Cyle' for 'Kyle.' The other night one contestant was 'Aric' (Eric). I guess I should stop being surprised by differently spelled names.

That was driving me crazy, because I was just yesterday teaching my kindergarten child that the /k/ sound is spelled "k" before e, i, or y, but "c" everywhere else. In English, when c precedes e, i, or y, it makes the /s/ sound.

Poor Cyle has probably had to correct both the spelling and pronunciation of his name his whole life.

[opus]

Here's the FJ clue:

http://www.neworleanssaints.com/news-and-events/article-1/New-Orleans-Saints-makes-Final-Jeopardy/11a1b22d-381e-4f8a-8b6d-1f61588ee4b0

When I originally posted it here, I did leave out the apostrophe. Sorry.

Edited November 8, 2014 by GaryE

[teebax]

I didn't see the episode, but if what was written here ("This NFL teams logo") is accurate, all they needed to do was add an apostrophe: "This NFL team's logo ..." If a contestant misreads it and answers with the logo instead of the team, they're wrong. (And too bad for them; reading the clue correctly is part of the game.) People do that all the time - give the title when the clue wanted the author, give the city when the clue sought the state of which that city is capital, etc. - and Alex just rules them incorrect, often with a reminder of why it was wrong.

The original clue did have the apostrophe.

The way the original clue was worded, it was asking for a team. Considering that two of the contestants completely misread the clue tells me it wasn't a great clue (although during my initial viewing, it was obvious to me what they wanted). Perhaps the category is what made one say fleur de lis and one say vine, but that's not what the clue asked for.

Edited November 8, 2014 by teebax

[Bastet]

If the apostrophe was there, then I join you in objecting to the contestant who offered up the logo instead of the team being ruled correct. 

[peeayebee]

True. It could have said either, "The name of the NFL team whose logo is a plant" or "Name of the logo of an NFL team that is a plant".

 

All that was needed was for the apostrophe and S to be omitted, i.e., change from "This NFL team's logo is the only one that is a plant" to "This NFL team logo is the only one that is a plant." 

[Totale]

All that was needed was for the apostrophe and S to be omitted, i.e., change from "This NFL team's logo is the only one that is a plant" to "This NFL team logo is the only one that is a plant." 

That gets them past the syntax and just leaves the question of whether a fleur de lys is a plant.  It's a stylized representation of a lily, but then the Jolly Green Giant is a stylized representation of a giant.  Does that make him one?

[peeayebee]

Yeah, I'm having a hard time agreeing that fleur de lis is a plant. I would say that the Jolly Green Giant is a giant. 

[ChicagoCita]

There's a nice article on Julia being in the TOC from the Chicago Sun-Times.  She's apparently on this Wednesday and plays the college champ and Joshua Brakhage.

[teebax]

Is Arthur Chu in this tournament?

[Trey]

Yes, Arthur will be in it too.  I don't know what day he'll be on.

[opus]

It's going to be two weeks of me feeling dumber than usual.

Edit- except for the Dick Cheney picture, of course. Nailed that one.

Edited November 11, 2014 by GaryE

[mojoween]

Who cares about these chuckleheads. Bring on Julia!

I remembered the teacher and sort of recollected the winner, but I don't know the lady. She must have won before I got back into watching Jeopardy! during awful Arthur's reign.

I was very surprised "sleeve" was a TS.

So that lady won on Jeopardy!...and got a haircut. Poor thing. They couldn't have come up with something more interesting than that?

[GreekGeek]

This old New Yorker was disappointed that no one recognized John V. Lindsay.

[Sharpie66]

I misread FJ and went with Seward instead of Alaska.

[ottoDbusdriver]

This old New Yorker was disappointed that no one recognized John V. Lindsay.

 

I couldn't believe that they put a picture of Dick Cheney in the NY Times Politics category.  I know it was a $400 clue, but still that was too easy for a normal game let alone a ToC match.

[mojoween]

I was enraged about the Cheney picture too but then I thought about and wasn't the clue kind of vague? Like there wasn't enough context without the pic.

[ali59]

So that lady won on Jeopardy!...and got a haircut. Poor thing. They couldn't have come up with something more interesting than that?

 

Like a better fitting bra!  I remember her and her annoying way of speaking and the crappy boobage area.  I'm a large busted woman and really hate seeing women with poor fitting bras.  For the love of all that's holy, get a professional fitting.  You can afford it!  That haircut was nothing to write home about.  Some spanx wouldn't have hurt either!

[3 is enough]

Yes the lack of a proper fitting bra was so distracting, both tonight and when she originally appeared.

 

[Bastet]

I cannot believe that Dick Cheney picture.  I'd be annoyed if that had happened in the Teen Tournament, never mind the Tournament of Champions.  I don't even remember anything else that happened in the game, because that blew my mind.

 

Which means I don't remember if the clue was written in a way that would stand on its own, but it has no bearing on my objection to having someone like Dick Cheney show up in a photo when the clue seeks nothing more than his name. 

Edited November 11, 2014 by Bastet

[peeayebee]

I was very surprised "sleeve" was a TS.

I think this is a case where it would have been better to start at the top of the category to get into the swing of things. 

 

The Cheney clue was "I started as a Times Op-Ed columnist in 2009 with a provocative argument that the 2008 race would have been a clearer choice if this man from Wyoming had been the GOP nominee for President." I think mentioning Wyoming was enough of a clue without the photo.

 

I often felt dumb during this game, but I also got a couple of TSs -- 1) John Lindsay, and 2) the shoe being a mule. BTW, I thought it was weird that Alex said, "What is a mule. A mule." He repeated it like it was weird or funny. 

 

It's too bad that John had a brain fart and said that Robert Penn Warren wrote "All the President's Men." He was obviously thinking of "All the King's Men." He did something similar with saying Kubrick instead of Joseph Conrad.

 

I drew a blank with FJ. I took a guess with Texas.

Edited November 11, 2014 by peeayebee

[Bastet]

I often felt dumb during this game, but I also got a couple of TSs -- 1) John Lindsay, and 2) the shoe being a mule.

 

That one really surprised me as a TS, since I got it just hearing the clue from the other room (and knowing the category) while the contestants also had a picture to look at.

[teebax]

I enjoyed Ben so much during his first run.  He's the one who used his won money to get a longer bed which I found charming and humble.  Did anyone else see him say "Hi, mom" as they were being introduced?  I'm thinking he's strong enough to be in the final 3, but I'm not getting so invested in who's going to win as I was with Tom Nissley -  hurts too much when they lose...

I didn't remember the female contestant from last night - still don't. Was the haircut she got really severe? I watch every episode and just have no recollection of her. I do remember Ben, and I didn't like him at all, especially after his "war between the states" answer.  

 

I'm looking forward to Julia being on. I am not looking forward to Arthur, although he didn't bother me as much during the other tournament he was in (was it decades?) as he did during his original run.

 

I'm also wondering how many 5-time winners they'll have for the next tournament, considering the abysmal start this season is off to.

[Tigershark]

 

Yes the lack of a proper fitting bra was so distracting, both tonight and when she originally appeared.

I was equally distracted by Ben's ill-fitting suit.  It needed to be taken in a bit.  Is it just me or were those contestant interviews really boring?  I could have come up with something way more interesting about winning on Jeopardy.

[Pallida]

I ended up looking at the Meet the Contestants video to recognize Rebecca https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ9smGoa32g  The haircut makes her look a lot older (and perhaps that was her intention).

 

I'm looking forward to seeing Sandie again.  I'd like to see her and Julia make it to the end.  

[peeayebee]

Thanks for linking to that video. Rebecca looks so different.