S02.E09: Episode 9

[formerlyfreedom]

Following the on-campus murder of a fellow Leyland student, the entire community is forced to re-examine all of the choices they have made in the wake of the sexual encounter between Eric and Taylor; leaked personal information implicates both Kevin and Becca to the shooting; Sebastian targets the Leyland school by releasing its most sensitive information online, which causes Leslie to take drastic measures; and at Marshall High, Chris finds himself at a career crossroads when he faces a school review board.

 

 

 

[janeta]

So has coach Dan ever said anything sympathetic to Eric? Eric comes out to him in his hospital room, and Dan gets up and walks out. Sean calls Eric a gay boy on the court and Dan lets it slide and doesn't smack Sean down right then and there. Eric says, "Ima blowing this pop stand" and all Dan can do is talk about himself. Wut?

Oh, and wow but did they ever need an entire fleet of buses to throw people under this ep....

Edited March 3, 2016 by janeta

[represent]

I think I might have figured out why they're showing the poor school on the other side of town. Could it be that the principal on the poor side of town is shown to admit out loud his flaws/biases as a school leader and that his feet will be held to the fire for his negligence. He also unlike Leslie doesn't know how to play politics, because unlike Leslie, I actually think he does care about the kids overall.

 

But because all Leslie is, is a politician and couldn't give a shit about any of the kids in her school, she will no doubt walk away from all of this without a scratch or feeling a morsel of guilt.

 

She still doesn't get it at all.

 

Taylor and Eric still just pull at my heart strings. That scene with Eric and his mother, just sad. To have your mother recoil from you.

 

Kevin's father, the coach and Leslie aren't learning any lessons at all here. They remain stagnant characters.

 

The coach's wife should have just stayed home, instead of wasting gas and asking Anne to have mercy on her drug dealing daughter and mom, her supplier.

Edited March 3, 2016 by represent

[Armchair Critic]

I hope Sebastian leaking more stuff will implicate Leslie, the coach, Kevin, and the others who think they are going to walk away from it. Sadly Taylor is still going to prison but I am hoping it will help Anne's case.

[Madding crowd]

A lot of things happened this episode, but it almost seems like they are rushing now to finish the story. Sebastian really seems like a creep and not believable. I could see him as some kind of guy to out evil corporations or something, but how would he have known there was dirt on the school or anything about this case prior to talking to Anne and then checking things out? And leaving his daughters in that motel alone at night, and with nothing to do during the day is awful. He just seems over the top.

 

How dumb is that school board? Putting homophobic comments in on-line communications? I could see one person doing it but all of them? I would have to assume some of them are executives or lawyers and would know better. And as I predicted, Leslie comes out standing on her feet.

 

I don't know what to think of Taylor admitting to lying about things at this late game. I do still feel for him and for Eric-I have a son who is 18 and in high school; there is nothing on earth that would make me love him even one iota less. I just hate Eric's mother even though I know she doesn't mean to be the way she is.

 

Nothing much happening with Anne besides her just saying the same things over and over. Did the coach's wife really think Anne would care about her daughter? Still think the other school and the story with the principal could have been a different story in a different season. Whenever he comes on, I just want it to switch back to Taylor and Eric. Not the fault of the actor, just too many points of focus. 

[mrsbagnet]

Is it wrong that I'm a little proud of Leslie? She's a terrible person, no doubt, but the fact that she came through this unscathed while the people who were going to betray her got hosed? I gotta say I'm impressed. While her motives were less than pure and her actions questionable, she is a good leader (unlike Coach Dan), and she did do her best to maintain appearances.

 

I fear that Sebastian ego is going to get him in trouble.

 

So the whole point of the other school storyline was to make the principal somehow culpable in the situation with Taylor? They bring in Evy and the counselor, but hearing is not even about the fight? Bit of a stretch, IMO. Then again, this is a school board. I shouldn't be surprised.

Edited March 3, 2016 by mrsbagnet

[jb1183]

Joey Pollari is just KILLING IT as Eric. Connor Jessup seems to be getting most of the (richly deserved) critical raves, but I think Pollari has been every bit his equal in what is in some ways a more difficult role. Eric very well may be a rapist (though I hope not and I seriously doubt we'll ever know for sure), but I truly care about him, deeply flawed as he is, and that's all because of Pollari's performance. 

 

And the fact that Eric, a very possible rapist, is easily one of the top five most likable characters at this point really indicates how far into the gutter all the rest have descended. 

[jb1183]

Still think the other school and the story with the principal could have been a different story in a different season. Whenever he comes on, I just want it to switch back to Taylor and Eric. Not the fault of the actor, just too many points of focus.

Oh yes, definitely. I actually resented how much time was taken up with that story in this episode with so many other threads of greater interest still unresolved and with so little time left in the season. I wholeheartedly agree with whoever wrote in the last episode thread that Elvis Nolasco should have been cast as Kevin's father, as he's an overall stronger actor than the one playing the dad, and the principal subplot could have been dropped to provide more time to dig deeper into the main storyline. 

[represent]

 

Eric very well may be a rapist (though I hope not and I seriously doubt we'll ever know for sure), but I truly care about him, deeply flawed as he is, and that's all because of Pollari's performance.

And the fact that Eric, a very possible rapist, is easily one of the top five most likable characters at this point really indicates how far into the gutter all the rest have descended.

 

 

 

I feel the same way about Eric, but I don't feel the second part. I think they've/the actor has manage to make him human where you're not looking at him as a possible predator and for as old as I am, I see him as a child. He is, his brain is not yet fully developed, he's a teenager. So even when children commit horrible acts somehow you think they have youth on their sides and that if the right adult is somewhere in the mix, that person can lead them to be honest, take the consequences, repent, and possibly rehabilitate. But for me his youth is a big part of why I want to be hopeful where he is concerned, and hope first that he didn't prey on Taylor and rape him. I was glad to see Kevin try to finally be honest, his mother finally getting a clue and saying that he would testify, but his father still seriously sucks so....

Edited March 3, 2016 by represent

[PQuinn]

I can't figure this Sebastian thing out. I think the truth of the captain's party will come out at trial: Taylor will get a reduced sentence, Eric will go the jail, Becca will go to jail. And Leslie will be left standing victorious.

 

And I want it  to be over because I am drained.

 

And I think the American Crime is the school system is broken and because of that everyone gets fucked and it's over, if you want to achieve the American Dream through education, tough shit.

Edited March 3, 2016 by PQuinn

[represent]

Now does anyone have any idea what Taylor's ex girlfriend was referring to when she said he lied, because according him he's definitely not lying about all of it. 

[nutty1]

Now does anyone have any idea what Taylor's ex girlfriend was referring to when she said he lied, because according him he's definitely not lying about all of it.

I think he meant he lied to her about them as a couple and being gay. Because he emphasized to her he didn't lie about the rape.

[numbnut]

A lot of things happened this episode, but it almost seems like they are rushing now to finish the story.

 

IKR? Leslie is suddenly back in charge after being ousted; Eric's brother is suddenly not a homophobic jerk; the coach's wife is suddenly a bitch. These are whiplash-inducing 180s. The season was a slow burn and now everything's happening all at once. I still don't know what happened at that party or why Taylor would lie about it.

[represent]

 

I think he meant he lied to her about them as a couple and being gay. Because he emphasized to her he didn't lie about the rape.

Yeah, but when Taylor started to talk about how he was sorry for lying to her about being gay, didn't she interrupt him and say she wasn't talking about that? Like in other words, I'm over that, and that's not what I'm here to talk about. That's what I got from the scene, then she ended by touching his hand and telling him to believe in himself, because believing in herself got her through her drama/crisis and to essentially fight with truth. Because there was still truth to be told and he wasn't telling it. I could have sworn that's how the scene went down. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by represent

[Bobbin]

I have to wonder how viewers' sympathies would run if Taylor and Eric weren't cute, not just vulnerable.

Leslie reminds me of Demi Moore's character in "Disclosure," a woman executive skilled at coming out on top no matter what.

Coach Dan reminds me of a student teacher I worked with one day who thought the students should respect her because of how much her parents paid to put her through college. Dan is baffled that his team doesn't put his career ahead of their personal problems. Not everyone with a teaching certificate should be allowed near kids.

Collectively, everything that everyone knows could help Taylor, but individually no one thinks they can make a difference.

The broadest view of these events is the tragedy that victims of sexual assault, male or female, are further victimized by the "system," whether that system is what passes for criminal justice or the society we live in -- that is, the rest of us. More narrowly, how many individual social issues and faulty attitudes can you spot in these ten episodes?

[izabella]

The Coach's cluelessness is astounding.  "We're talking about my life," he says to the boy who tried to commit suicide. 

 

Leslie is a piece of work.

[Woebegone]

Yeah, but when Taylor started to talk about how he was sorry for lying to her about being gay, didn't she interrupt him and say she wasn't talking about that? Like in other words, I'm over that, and that's not what I'm here to talk about. That's what I got from the scene, then she ended by touching his hand and telling him to believe in himself, because believing in herself got her through her drama/crisis and to essentially fight with truth. Because there was still truth to be told and he wasn't telling it. I could have sworn that's how the scene went down. 

 

I think she was acting as a mouthpiece for the audience at that point because I don't think we care about what Taylor really felt about her either at this point; we just want to know about what really happened with the rape.

 

I think I'll have to see the final episode to know for sure, but his answer had a certain definitive quality to it. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the last we ever hear about the subject. Eric did it. The whys or hows of it may be still left up for debate, but he did it. And yeah, it still doesn't make 100% sense, but not everything in real life does either.

 

I've probably spent more time than I should have thinking about what it means for a show as socially conscious as American Crime to portray a rapist sympathetically. I think my conclusion from all this, what I think American Crime is getting at, is that victimization isn't a zero-sum game. It doesn't take away from the validity of what Taylor has gone through by saying that Eric is also just a confused teenager trying to figure things out. That Eric isn't a two-dimensional, grinning sociopath doesn't make what he did to Taylor any less monstrous. That we can and should sympathize with both because neither has had it easy.

 

It's strange, but I think what we've seen this entire season is people being at their very worst when they let themselves demonize other people, make them out to be monsters, to justify their hatred of them. We saw that with Couch Dan ranting about Anne to the reporter and again when he told off Leslie. We saw that when Terri barged into Anne's diner to call her son a whore. We saw that when Michael tell Terri how vindicated he felt when Taylor turned out to be a murderer. We saw that when Kevin ranted to the team about that 'little bitch' Taylor. When we make people out to be monsters, that's when we become monsters ourselves.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Woebegone

[ToukieSmith]

But because all Leslie is, is a politician and couldn't give a shit about any of the kids in her school, she will no doubt walk away from all of this without a scratch or feeling a morsel of guilt.

 

She still doesn't get it at all.

 

 

I think Leslie does get it.  She still has her job and the other Principal does not.  Always protect your agenda.  Always understand that others have their own agenda.  

Is it wrong that I'm a little proud of Leslie? She's a terrible person, no doubt, but the fact that she came through this unscathed while the people who were going to betray her got hosed? I gotta say I'm impressed. While her motives were less than pure and her actions questionable, she is a good leader (unlike Coach Dan), and she did do her best to maintain appearances.

 

You aren't alone.  Her tactics are suspect, but she did what they hired her to do and they were too weak to back her up when the fecal matter hit the cooling device.  I appreciate how coldly she turned the tables on their asses and fired them all.  In contrast, the other principal got his ass handed to him because he never thought those so-called nice folks that he accommodated (the 2 women he talked to about school problems) would not back him up when he needed them to do so.  The lesson is that no one will ever have your back so you should have your own back.

 

I think I like Leslie because I know what I am getting with people like her.  Its obvious that she is always going to protect herself and her agenda whereas the others are not as transparent.  They hide behind a facade of appearing to be nice people when they are just as selfish as Leslie.

 

 

I can't figure this Sebastian thing out. I think the truth of the captain's party will come out at trial: Taylor will get a reduced sentence, Eric will go the jail, Becca will go to jail. And Leslie will be left standing victorious.

 

Sebastian is a wild card and his loyalty is to his need to avenge so-called wrongs.

 

Its interesting to note that Sebastian gave Leslie new life.  Before the hack, Leslie was exiting the scene.  The hack, IMO, gave her an opportunity to refocus strategically to 1) show her value and 2) refocus her power structure.  My guess is that she went to key alums with the information about the hack and got their support on how to deal with it.  Once she solidified her power base, she presented the plan of reformatting the board to the Chair.

Edited March 3, 2016 by ToukieSmith

[possibilities]

I hate Leslie. Yes, the Board knew what they were getting with her. But what they were getting is evil shit. Yes the Board was horrible and deserved to be dissolved. It's because they hired her to do what she did. The fact that she's just better at covering her own ass doesn't make her better than them, it makes her (like she said) just less stupid. So she's smart and evil. They're stupid and evil. I prefer to deal with stupid, because it's easier to stop them. I highly doubt Eric, or Anne, knew what they were getting with Leslie.

 

Coach's wife trying to get Anne to collude to protect Becca at Taylor's expense was shocking to me. All the other garbage I've been cynical enough to find credible, but that one truly surprised me. Also, she still thinks it was "only marijuana"? It was oxy, wasn't it? So did neither she nor Coach ever talk to Becca about what actually happened? Even Kevin's shitty parents finally sat down and heard Kevin's side of the story, though notably he didn't tell them whatever he knows about the party.

 

I don't understand the deal Evy got from the school. It seemed like they gave her money to agree not to testify? But can't she be subpoenaed? She can't have signed a contract agreeing to lie, so what exactly did she agree to? She already gave a statement to the police, so what happens if she's forced to testify....she just refuses? Recants? And then the gag agreement comes out and everyone knows she's been paid off, which would get everyone into more trouble, right? Typically you can agree not to speak about something as part of a settlement in a lawsuit, but Evy never sued or threatened to sue the school, it seemed like they paid her not to testify in Anne's suit?

 

I keep being surprised that the couple who took Taylor in while Anne was getting psychiatric help has not been more involved. They don't visit Taylor in prison? They don't talk to Anne?

Edited March 3, 2016 by possibilities

[vixenbynight]

The broadest view of these events is the tragedy that victims of sexual assault, male or female, are further victimized by the "system," whether that system is what passes for criminal justice or the society we live in -- that is, the rest of us. More narrowly, how many individual social issues and faulty attitudes can you spot in these ten episodes?

 

Exactly. It still horribly upsetting that things could and should have been handled better for Taylor. The life that he has known has been completely torn asunder and it shouldn't have ended up in that way. That he was put in the position of having to defend himself over and over again, to the sad and horrible result of him killing another person.

He still has the belief that he's at fault for all of his mother's trials, tribulations and pain in her life. He still wants his mother to let him go and try to move on with her life. As Terri said about her son Kevin, "He IS her life." Anne could never do that to him.

Which reflects the total opposite situation between Eric and the waste of space woman that gave birth to him.

I think she was acting as a mouthpiece for the audience at that point because I don't think we care about what Taylor really felt about her either at this point; we just want to know about what really happened with the rape.

 

I think I'll have to see the final episode to know for sure, but his answer had a certain definitive quality to it. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the last we ever hear about the subject. Eric did it. The whys or hows of it may be still left up for debate, but he did it. And yeah, it still doesn't make 100% sense, but not everything in real life does either.

 

I've probably spent more time than I should have thinking about what it means for a show as socially conscious as American Crime to portray a rapist sympathetically. I think my conclusion from all this, what I think American Crime is getting at, is that victimization isn't a zero-sum game. It doesn't take away from the validity of what Taylor has gone through by saying that Eric is also just a confused teenager trying to figure things out. That Eric isn't a two-dimensional, grinning sociopath doesn't make what he did to Taylor any less monstrous. That we can and should sympathize with both because neither has had it easy.

That's why I'm glad that Taylor isn't backing down about him being raped that night. He lied about the real reason of being with Evy and the initial communication/setup with Eric, but he was raped that night.

 

[nutty1]

I cannot believe there is only 1 more one hour episode to get this all wrapped up. But I am assuming nothing will actually wrap up, we may have to draw our own conclusions after it ends.

[Neurochick]

Maybe what the "American Crime" is, is that schools are all about politics and have nothing much to do with education and when schools are run by politicians, the children are the ones who lose.  

 

The Leyland principal is nothing more than a politician, she doesn't give a shit about the students; while the Marshall principal did care about the students but had to leave because of politics; so now the Marshall school will get a politician who doesn't give a shit about the students but knows how to play the game.  Great.

 

The irony in all this is that the Marshall school was probably named after Thurgood Marshall whose most famous case was Brown vs The Board of Education of Topeka, you know, the case that said separate but equal education was wrong. 

[EvilApplesauce]

I don't see how this season will come to a satisfying conclusion at all. There are so many unanswered questions, and each episode just seems to bring up new questions for me. I can appreciate "American Crime" being something of a show about awareness instead of plot, but I get the feeling that it's really just dramatic for the sake of being dramatic. It seems that there was no point to Val's character, the man who tried to attack/rape Eric just vanished into thin air (and nobody's looking for him??), Taylor's mother's past issues with mental illness were raised in 1 episode and pretty much forgotten, and Sebastian seems to exist only as a plot device. Way too many things going on. Kevin's character is paper-thin, and we may never find out why Taylor had Kevin on his hit list. Why were we shown the scene of Coach breaking into Leslie's office? Nothing came out of that. Why did we have to hear the story from that other parent who took a settlement from Leyland when his daughter was harassed by her teacher? I don't think that scene was necessary in proving that Leyland is corrupt - the show was already doing a good job of showing us that through Leslie and the board. Everything seemed like the show was making things up as it went along, IMO, around the point when Sebastian was introduced. I heard that the director filmed several scenes that didn't make it to the show because he wanted the cast to be surprised by the ending. If that's true, then to me it explains why the season doesn't seem to be telling a cohesive story about anything. The first 5 episodes were so compelling that I'm left disappointed.

Edited March 3, 2016 by EvilApplesauce

[starri]

I think it depends on your definition of "satisfying" is.  If you want all of the i's dotted and t's crossed, we're unlikely to get that.  Because life doesn't usually do that.

 

God, I kind of hate that this episode made me turn on characters.  I mean, I was expecting Michael to be an asshole, but I was so glad Terri finally acted like a decent human being.  But what just hit me square in the chest was Coach's Wife.  Lady, I get that you want to protect your daughter, but threatening to make her perjure herself reserves a special level of Hell for you.

 

I kind of wanted to throw up when Eric was confronting his mother.

 

 

I have to wonder how viewers' sympathies would run if Taylor and Eric weren't cute, not just vulnerable.

I think that's in a certain way the point.  No one wants to think that a good-looking kid who seems to have a lot going for him could do something so awful.  And I think that's the issue.  Eric did something monstrous, but I don't think he actual is a monster.  Taylor, the victim, lied repeatedly and and, justified or as a result of diminished capacity or not, killed a boy.  It's just mixed up and human and awful.

[ToukieSmith]

Maybe what the "American Crime" is, is that schools are all about politics and have nothing much to do with education and when schools are run by politicians, the children are the ones who lose.  

 

The Leyland principal is nothing more than a politician, she doesn't give a shit about the students; while the Marshall principal did care about the students but had to leave because of politics; so now the Marshall school will get a politician who doesn't give a shit about the students but knows how to play the game.  Great.

 

The irony in all this is that the Marshall school was probably named after Thurgood Marshall whose most famous case was Brown vs The Board of Education of Topeka, you know, the case that said separate but equal education was wrong. 

 

I think the "American Crime" may be that our ideals and actions don't agree.  We talk about honor and integrity, but as soon as something happens, so-called decent people start lying and covering for them and theirs.  The politicians are everywhere and they are running stuff they have no business running, but we put them in their positions because they dazzled us with their 30 second elevator speech and we failed to demand more than that.

 

I appreciate that Terri and Kevin have a sense of decency about them.  Their conscience led them to do the right thing.  In contrast, I wonder if the Coach's daughter did not want to go to school because her conscience was bothering her and her parents are the ones impairing her sense of right and wrong.  

[Neurochick]

I think the "American Crime" may be that our ideals and actions don't agree.  We talk about honor and integrity, but as soon as something happens, so-called decent people start lying and covering for them and theirs.  The politicians are everywhere and they are running stuff they have no business running, but we put them in their positions because they dazzled us with their 30 second elevator speech and we failed to demand more than that.

 

I appreciate that Terri and Kevin have a sense of decency about them.  Their conscience led them to do the right thing.  In contrast, I wonder if the Coach's daughter did not want to go to school because her conscience was bothering her and her parents are the ones impairing her sense of right and wrong.  

 

I think that's a good point.  But in a society that values the individual over the collective, isn't it human nature to protect yourself and your family?  Wouldn't it be suicide not to do so?  If you're in a society that values the collective, then it's probably easier to do the right thing.

[sugarbaker design]

the man who tried to attack/rape Eric just vanished into thin air (and nobody's looking for him??),

 

 

Eric didn't report it, why would anyone look for him?

[Primetimer]

As things fall apart in the season's penultimate episode, everyone scrambles for cover and stages counter-attacks.

Read the story

[WhosThatGirl]

I didn't watch last season but this season got me hooked. The story was so intriguing but next week with the season ending, I dont think I'm going to be happy with the way it ends. But also.. Life doesn't always get endings. Life is hardly tied up with neat little bows so I mean it makes sense. Like with the party, the party is essentially a big game of telephone. We will probably never know what went down and thas actually okay because it feels more true to life.

[sjohnson]

I don't think Steph suddenly made up her threat to lie about Taylor himself buying drugs from Becca to party with Eric. I think that she was ready to do that all along, and just tried the soft approach in case in might work. I think she was being proactive, trying to do this to keep Taylor from changing his mind and talking about it. I don't think there's anything out of the blue about this. She clearly listened to Dan about how they weren't any better than any other parents and they would protect their child too.

 

On the other hand, I find it difficult to believe that Kevin didn't know what he was doing with his incitement of the beat down. But I find it easy to believe that he is repeating the tactic of getting out in front with the cops by giving his version first. Terri is genuinely shaken and re-thinking things, it seems to me, but the LaCroix men are just concerned with evading potential consequences.

 

On the other hand, I thought the most astounding thing was Evy's confession. It's not having some doubts about Taylor, despite seeing the radical change in his condition with her own eyes. Her vanity is wounded at being deceived in her hopes for Taylor, after all. But to boast of getting money when the same thing (in her mind) happened to her was basically a way of taunting her. She didn't seem to be that kind of girl, so for me this came out of no where. Further, her ultimate justification that she believed in herself implicitly blames Taylor for pretty much everything. Again, she didn't seem to be so malicious. This reeks a little of the show shouting out Taylor is responsible.

 

This will probably be contentious. But the boys on the team were there. They knew what happened. If they had known it was just a matter of Taylor lying, they wouldn't have been been scared the same way as we saw. They wouldn't have needed Kevin to talk about being a bitch, they would have been furious from the first. It really isn't very believable that they wouldn't have compared notes and figured out it was Eric who was being accused. And it's not at all clear they wouldn't have ratted out the deceiver who lied to them about his sexuality long before.

 

As far as Eric being truthful goes, he may have convinced himself it was consensual. But his version implies that Taylor then consented to wander off from the consensual sex with his pants down and get mocked by a small army of assholes. No, I don't think so, I think that's nonsense. I think Eric on one level knew it was rape and fled in shame from the damage visible on Connor, I think the other team mates knew Taylor wasn't consenting, was in no shape to consent, but they still mocked him. It's like that story of a rape in a pool room in that Jodie Foster movie.

 

So no, I don't think there's any doubt that Eric is lying about consensual sex, especially to himself. The show doesn't show him as a monster. Maybe if you feel rapists are monsters, then Eric, who isn't a monster, can't be a rapist. Well, I don't agree. But, despite the ambiguity about the degree of involvement by members of the team, there's no ambiguity in my mind whatsoever about the reality of a rape. If the show itself tries to suddenly say otherwise, I can only say they wrote characters who didn't act innocent.

 

I don't know why it's so important to show how creepy Sebastian is, when the cop (probably) who leaked Anne's medical records doesn't need to be shown at all. Michael, who instigated it, is shown rather favorably.

 

I agree with those who realize the shooting takes all the steam out of the rape case. Since it was the rape case that had all the thematic tension, this episode was rather flabby. I mean, who really cares if Kevin organized an attack on Taylor. Does that really justify shooting someone? The lawyer was right, a manslaughter charge with mitigating circumstances is the best to hope for.

 

In more cynical moments, I can't help but wonder if Taylor had been a female character, then the shooting of Wes would have been a feel-good, hurrah moment?

Edited March 3, 2016 by sjohnson

[sugarbaker design]

I agree with those who realize the shooting takes all the steam out of the rape case. Since it was the rape case that had all the thematic tension, this episode was rather flabby. I mean, who really cares if Kevin organized an attack on Taylor. Does that really justify shooting someone? The lawyer was right, a manslaughter charge with mitigating circumstances is the best to hope for.

 

 

I don't think Kevin's story is over yet.  We still don't know if Kevin had anything to do the night of Taylor's sexual assault.  I hope that's cleared up next week.

[iMonrey]

Who was the guy talking to Taylor in the opening scene? I don't remember seeing him before.

 

Another thing I noticed was that in the "previously" clips when Leslie is being told the board wants her out, we see the face of the woman telling her that. Yet in the episode last week, I don't ever remember seeing her face.

 

I still agree with those who feel the subplot about the public school with the black principal feels superfluous and bloats the show, detracting from the main story.

 

Leslie just lucked out. If the hacker guy hadn't released all that information online her butt would have been out the door instead of the board's. So I'm not attributing any of her "success" in this matter to skills on her part.

[starri]

Who was the guy talking to Taylor in the opening scene? I don't remember seeing him before.

Wasn't that the therapist guy?  The one who gave him the notebook?

[Lemons]

 So even when children commit horrible acts somehow you think they have youth on their sides and that if the right adult is somewhere in the mix, that person can lead them to be honest, take the consequences, repent, and possibly rehabilitate.

 

The problem is that none of the teens in this program have decent adults to help them be honest and take the consequences.  They all want to "protect" their children at the expense of their children growing up to be shitty uncaring adults.  And the cycle will repeat itself. 

 

I don't understand why Taylor keeps saying that his mother left him.  Didn't she go into the hospital because she was sick?  Didn't someone explain that?  Didn't he go visit her?  That part makes no sense at all.  Again, the program is reverting back 50 years, treating mental illness like it's something that you hide.  I know we haven't come that far yet, but most people understand that you cannot control being gay or getting sick.

[isitpink]

I'm aggravated. I'm disappointed with the broadening of the storyline leading to even more frayed ends, rather than narrowing the focus even a little and telling an actual story. Maybe there will be some clarity in the final episode, but I don't feel like clarity is a goal on this show.

I'm aggravated with Evy. She shows up to, what, encourage him to be selfish and fight for his life by throwing in his face that she turned her negative circumstance into a payday? She's telling him how she found someone to listen to the stuff that she's been going through, throwing in a jab about him not caring about her life. This "stuff" that ultimately resulted in Chris losing his job as principal was the same "stuff" she was bragging to Taylor about earlier, telling him dudes be fighting over her. She never rejected the attention or flirtations of the black kid. But she readily stepped into the role of damsel who brought on a race war.

Kevin's dad? WTF??

Becca's mom? UGH.

Eric's mom? AARGHHH!!!

Maybe the real American Crime is that our society has degenerated to a point where self-serving at any and all cost is expected. Wrong is okay as long as there was a good reason. Children are raised to "do as I say, not as I do." And seeming good is sufficient, while being good is inconsequential.

[Bobbin]

Why the rush to judgment in trying Taylor as an adult? If manslaughter or unintentional homicide, despite his "hit list", is on the table, he could as well be tried as a juvenile. The truth is, few teens are so hardcore as to be deserving of being judged by adult standards for impetuous acts. That goes for many adults as well. I realize that Taylor isn't cooperating with his attorney for whatever his reasons, but the attorney doesn't seem to be trying as hard as he might, more like just encouraging Taylor to take a plea offer so the attorney doesn't have to work on a trial defense. I had an attorney like that in a civil case, a case he simply inherited (literally). Even the aritrating judge urged us to take whatever settlement was offered when he didn't even know what the case was about.

[jb1183]

I think I'll have to see the final episode to know for sure, but his answer had a certain definitive quality to it. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the last we ever hear about the subject. Eric did it. The whys or hows of it may be still left up for debate, but he did it. And yeah, it still doesn't make 100% sense, but not everything in real life does either.

 

I've probably spent more time than I should have thinking about what it means for a show as socially conscious as American Crime to portray a rapist sympathetically. I think my conclusion from all this, what I think American Crime is getting at, is that victimization isn't a zero-sum game. It doesn't take away from the validity of what Taylor has gone through by saying that Eric is also just a confused teenager trying to figure things out. That Eric isn't a two-dimensional, grinning sociopath doesn't make what he did to Taylor any less monstrous. That we can and should sympathize with both because neither has had it easy.

Well stated and I agree with a lot of it. Honestly, though, the show has purposely muddied the waters throughout to such an extent that I'm not sure I will be able to accept Eric's guilt definitively without a similar statement from him.The term "reasonable doubt" comes to mind frequently when watching this show. I've wondered since a few episodes back if what the show was going for was a situation where both victim and accused completely believe their version of events, even though, of course, both can't be true.

 

In some ways, I think I'm playing right into the writer's hand in acknowledging that I don't WANT Eric to be guilty, for reasons that you stated very articulately above. The writers have basically invited us to hope Eric isn't guilty, which is what society basically does in the case of accused rapists. I have resisted all along thinking Taylor lied about the rape (because why in the world would he? He's lost more than anyone in all of this.), but Eric's innocence would pretty much depend on Taylor having lied.

 

I actually think it's to the credit of the social consciousness of the show to portray a (possible? likely?) rapist in the three dimensional way they have because thinking of rape and sexual misconduct as something only evil bogeymen could ever possibly be capable of really hinders honest and constructive conversation on how to dismantle rape culture and address issues of consent. So if Eric is definitely guilty, I hope this will be clarified in no uncertain terms in scenes with him before the final fade to black.

[represent]

 

Coach Dan reminds me of a student teacher I worked with one day who thought the students should respect her because of how much her parents paid to put her through college. Dan is baffled that his team doesn't put his career ahead of their personal problems. Not everyone with a teaching certificate should be allowed near kids.

He sounded insane to me. He was talking to Eric as if Eric were one of his peers. He's not one of your peers he's someone's child, just like your daughter is your child who you want to protect. He pisses me off. My mouth was hanging open, again, this is child and as a principal, counselor, teacher, coach etc.. your job is to protect, teach, and put them first for the hours of the day that they are literally, legally in your custody.

 

He's a nut.

 

I don't even get how Eric with a coach standing right in front of him was allowed to leave the school without the school day legally being over. I know from even my own high school experience that sometimes, depending on your program from year to year, certain students do officially end their days earlier than others and yes, can legally leave the premises. But that didn't seem to be the case in this scene with Eric. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by represent

[represent]

 

I have to wonder how viewers' sympathies would run if Taylor and Eric weren't cute, not just vulnerable.

Well I agree this could definitely be a factor including race and gender I might add. 

 

For me I don't find them any cuter than Kevin or the coach's daughter quite frankly. But what I do find them to be is more vulnerable. I may not like Kevin but I still have hope for him as well as the coach's daughter because they are kids to me cute or not cute.  

 

I feel for all these young people and do not absolve them of responsibility but have been much harder on the adults in this series. They have been as irresponsible if not more than these teenagers.

 

The only one who has been responsible from day one even back to when she had to commit herself to get mentally better for her son is Anne. Now it seems like Regina King's character is coming around and not running around worrying about appearances and how her "life plan" needs to work out exactly how she sees it.

 

But yeah, these adults suck a hell of a lot more to me. So with that, I grant a whole lot of mercy toward these kids even the ones whose personalities I can't stand. 

 

Oh I forgot, I think Eric's father has tried his best to not think of himself and do what's right, he has tried. 

[Broderbits]

I'm really not happy with the writing this year; they've just been cramming all this stuff together but not making it mesh. I get that they might want it to be like "real life", in which case they should be making documentaries. If they want to tell a story, can't it be a little more coherent? 

 

Why was there no translation of what Evy told that woman(forgot her name, the one who apparently wants to be the next principal)? 

 

I can't believe Kevin is so cluelesshe didn't understand what his little pep talk to the boys did.

[represent]

 

I think Leslie does get it.  She still has her job and the other Principal does not.  Always protect your agenda.  Always understand that others have their own agenda.

I know she gets this, I did say she was a politician which is why she's still standing and the other principal has fallen.

 

What she doesn't get is that she may have not had to fight this fight had she put what a good principal/school leaders should put first, and this is advocating for the kids. Or at the very least, hiring staff whose hearts are in it for those  kids.  There's politics in everything and the all mighty dollar always rules, you have to have it to continue to make things run at their best and Leslie is a master at this. But so are other school leaders around this country, they too are great at raising money and playing politics. But they can also balance giving a shit or at the very least behaving in a manner that would make the Connors of their student body not think twice they have his/her best interest at heart.  

 

At the beginning of the episode whoever she was speaking to I believe she said that she didn't get why "this" student came to kill her, why her, what was it all for? And I was like are your fucking serious lady? That's what she doesn't get, the fact that I don't think she ever even referred to Connor by name says it all.

 

I'm am very impressed by her power and ability to manipulate and beat the men especially at their own game and still be left standing, but it is soured because children are involved.  

Edited March 3, 2016 by represent

[Neurochick]

I'm aggravated with Evy. She shows up to, what, encourage him to be selfish and fight for his life by throwing in his face that she turned her negative circumstance into a payday? She's telling him how she found someone to listen to the stuff that she's been going through, throwing in a jab about him not caring about her life. This "stuff" that ultimately resulted in Chris losing his job as principal was the same "stuff" she was bragging to Taylor about earlier, telling him dudes be fighting over her. She never rejected the attention or flirtations of the black kid. But she readily stepped into the role of damsel who brought on a race war.

 

 

I never liked the Evy character.  She reminds me of white women who got black men killed by saying they raped them or tried to rape them, when all they did was wink or something; wasn't that what happened to Emmit Till?  

[Chaos Theory]

Reasonable doubt has always been what this show has been about since the first season. I forget everyone's names now but we still don't know for sure who killed the nice white couple (who dealt drugs, cheated and he beat his wife) was it the educated black thug or the white blonde addict? She confessed because she got a better deal and would only serve 10 years he was facing the death penalty. Of course shit went bad but again we still don't know for sure who committed fired the first shot that stared the story.

The same here. Personally I wouldn't mind if we never know for sure what happened at the party. If everyone tells their version of the story as they remember it but it never becomes clear and certain which version is the truth. Reasonable doubt. It's enough to create mayhem and it is what makes this show work so well.

[Woebegone]

Well stated and I agree with a lot of it. Honestly, though, the show has purposely muddied the waters throughout to such an extent that I'm not sure I will be able to accept Eric's guilt definitively without a similar statement from him.The term "reasonable doubt" comes to mind frequently when watching this show. I've wondered since a few episodes back if what the show was going for was a situation where both victim and accused completely believe their version of events, even though, of course, both can't be true.

In some ways, I think I'm playing right into the writer's hand in acknowledging that I don't WANT Eric to be guilty, for reasons that you stated very articulately above. The writers have basically invited us to hope Eric isn't guilty, which is what society basically does in the case of accused rapists. I have resisted all along thinking Taylor lied about the rape (because why in the world would he? He's lost more than anyone in all of this.), but Eric's innocence would pretty much depend on Taylor having lied.

I actually think it's to the credit of the social consciousness of the show to portray a (possible? likely?) rapist in the three dimensional way they have because thinking of rape and sexual misconduct as something only evil bogeymen could ever possibly be capable of really hinders honest and constructive conversation on how to dismantle rape culture and address issues of consent. So if Eric is definitely guilty, I hope this will be clarified in no uncertain terms in scenes with him before the final fade to black.

Yeah, I get the feeling that if we were to play all nine hours of this show in front of a jury, they'd still acquit Eric because the evidence just isn't there. Even going on the assumption that Taylor is being 100% truthful, there are still issues about the reliability of his testimony given his drugged state.

And yeah, we're totally playing into the hands of the writers. Taylor is a school shooter and they have the audience hoping he doesn't get any prison time because we got to know him well in advance of his crime. They've played a different game with Eric. They fingered him as a suspect much earlier, but always left just enough room to doubt the accusation. And they've given him such a sympathetic storyline that he's probably the secondary protagonist after Taylor.

[kassandra8286]

 

Why was there no translation of what Evy told that woman(forgot her name, the one who apparently wants to be the next principal)?

 

I was watching with closed captioning on and the captioning started off saying "speaking Spanish" like it normally would, but then it switched to their actual Spanish conversation. And I didn't see any English subtitles, so yeah, that was kinda weird.

My Spanish isn't perfect, but basically the woman (counselor? administrator? teacher?) was asking Evy if she had told the principal that she was touched, and Evy said, no, she didn't tell anyone, that it doesn't matter and would only make things worse.

 

 

[Broderbits]

Thanks kassandra8286! I wasn't sure if that was the truth when they surprised the principal with it.

[Neurochick]

Another reason to detest Evy.  Ugh, what a horrible character.

[RedheadZombie]

I have been mesmerized by this show, but this episode really let me down.  The storyline involving the other school has always been an unnecessary distraction, IMO, and now it's a SL that's really pissing me off.  So the principal is biased against Hispanics, should have provided and paid for counseling for Taylor, but he's also guilty of preferential treatment because Taylor's white.  I was waiting for them to blame him for the shooting.  They pretend that the assistant principal and guidance counselor have no role.  And they blame him for Evy's failure to tell her story (I think she's lying). 

 

I don't need black characters to be stereotyped in a "Magical Negro" way, but we already have the other black characters acting in very shady ways.  The mother is a cold woman who doesn't believe in lifting up a fellow black woman, teaches her son that young black women are looking to trap him and take his money, picks up a phone to have a cop "take care of" someone who pissed her off, and is extremely elitist.  The father seemed like a good guy initially, but is willing to destroy a woman's life in illegal ways, and cares more about protecting Kevin, who seemed truly innocent in having Taylor beaten up, and would probably be looked at as a hero for coming forward.

 

I'm very irritated that they keep repeating that Taylor was on marijuana.  To be honest, a little marijuana would have done him some good with the pain and anxiety.  But unless it was laced with something, it would have in no way caused such a response.  I believe Becca admitted to the oxy, yet that's being left out of the story.

 

This will probably be contentious. But the boys on the team were there. They knew what happened. If they had known it was just a matter of Taylor lying, they wouldn't have been been scared the same way as we saw. They wouldn't have needed Kevin to talk about being a bitch, they would have been furious from the first. It really isn't very believable that they wouldn't have compared notes and figured out it was Eric who was being accused. And it's not at all clear they wouldn't have ratted out the deceiver who lied to them about his sexuality long before.

 

As far as Eric being truthful goes, he may have convinced himself it was consensual. But his version implies that Taylor then consented to wander off from the consensual sex with his pants down and get mocked by a small army of assholes. No, I don't think so, I think that's nonsense. I think Eric on one level knew it was rape and fled in shame from the damage visible on Connor, I think the other team mates knew Taylor wasn't consenting, was in no shape to consent, but they still mocked him. It's like that story of a rape in a pool room in that Jodie Foster movie.

 

Eric also stated he was disgusted by Taylor's crying like a "little bitch".  We know Taylor is not new to same-sex intercourse, so why would he be sobbing incoherently, and stumbling away with his pants down.  Nothing about that suggests a consensual interlude.

 

I'm aggravated with Evy. She shows up to, what, encourage him to be selfish and fight for his life by throwing in his face that she turned her negative circumstance into a payday? She's telling him how she found someone to listen to the stuff that she's been going through, throwing in a jab about him not caring about her life. This "stuff" that ultimately resulted in Chris losing his job as principal was the same "stuff" she was bragging to Taylor about earlier, telling him dudes be fighting over her. She never rejected the attention or flirtations of the black kid. But she readily stepped into the role of damsel who brought on a race war.

 

I've come to the point where I can't even stand Evy.  To continue to bitch about being lied to is so ridiculous when someone was raped, and now someone is dead.  She cares nothing about what Taylor has gone through, and probably thinks Wes is just a rich kid, so his death doesn't matter.   I think she's totally lying about what happened to her, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Hispanic teacher coached her.  For all her condescending advice to the principal, the Hispanic teacher cares only about what happens to the Hispanic students.  Talk about bias.  Even if Evy's story were true, the harassment was not occurring when the Hispanic students "intervened", and therefore could by no means be called justified.

[RedheadZombie]

And yeah, we're totally playing into the hands of the writers. Taylor is a school shooter and they have the audience hoping he doesn't get any prison time because we got to know him well in advance of his crime. They've played a different game with Eric. They fingered him as a suspect much earlier, but always left just enough room to doubt the accusation. And they've given him such a sympathetic storyline that he's probably the secondary protagonist after Taylor.

 

I think this is a big oversimplification.  There's nothing that would ever justify rape, which is what Eric is suspected of.  There are all kinds of legal lesser degrees of murder.  Taylor was drugged against his will, raped, bullied relentlessly, beaten up by four guys, and then roughed up and threatened by one of his abusers.  Therefore, he was actually attacked three times by the same person/people.  Taylor most likely has PTSD, and was hallucinating.  We assume that Taylor went to the school to shoot the four people on his list, but he definitely rejected that impulse and was leaving school property when he was accosted.  With all of the ridiculous "stand your ground" laws that exist, this is one of the few instances where I don't have a problem with a shooting justified as self-defense.  And we don't really know if Taylor planned on pulling the trigger - the scene was filmed ambiguously.

[sjohnson]

Eric also stated he was disgusted by Taylor's crying like a "little bitch".  We know Taylor is not new to same-sex intercourse, so why would he be sobbing incoherently, and stumbling away with his pants down.  Nothing about that suggests a consensual interlude.

Yes, indeed, very good point. Of course Taylor's texts were a mitigating factor. But then, Eric's texts to that man in the van were a mitigating factor too. Nonetheless the guy attacked Eric and it wasn't Eric's fault. So too, it wasn't Taylor's fault. 

 

As to the precise involvement of the other boys in the whole thing? I think it is significant that when Kevin was whipping them up (unbeknownst to himself, to hear him tell the cops, really?) that he referred to Taylor as being "turned out," which seems at best to imply Eric introducing Taylor to something new. But it also has distinct overtones of a pimp turning out a whore, or a prisoner taking another prisoner for sex. Sorry, I don't think they would talk like that if they were just innocently partying, then some falling down drunk kids suddenly appears and drops his pants. How does turning out come into this? It seems to misinterpret what's been shown about these kids that they are simply indignant on Eric's behalf. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by sjohnson