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S05.E02: Good Man

AmandaPanda

By AmandaPanda
in Girls [V]

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Clanstarling

Clanstarling

(edited)

Aren't hannahs parents in their early 50s? If so they'd have been in college when aids was happening and even if late 50s they'd only have been a few years out. AIDS was big big news in 1983/84.

Then again, this show fudges details, hannah s mom just got tenure last year? And if she'd been teaching there longer than 7 years she should have been up for it much, much sooner. And if she hadn't, her becoming a professor for the first time in her 40s is remarkable (not unheard of but tough).

I don't know how old they are supposed to be in the show, but the actors were born in 1955 and 1953 (roughly 60 and 58 - they would have gone to college at the same time I did, which was well before 1983, though she would have gotten her PHD around then). Indeed AIDS was big news in 1983-1984. Heterosexual transmission wasn't quite accepted as fact until the end of that time period. Of course, even from the beginning it was known as a "gay" disease (I lived in the SF area at the time and remember the "gay cancer" stories before the virus was identified).

So he should have known better, of course. Even so, there are always people(in all generations) who are entirely clueless about protection. Hannah's dad has never seemed particularly practical about life. I mean, he flew to NY to get his first hook-up, for goodness sake. So I think it's in character for him.

Edited by clanstarling
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ZuluQueenOfDwarves

ZuluQueenOfDwarves

My parents are 57 and 60 and I'm only 6 months older than Lena Dunham. My sister is turning 27 this year, which is about how old I think Hannah is meant to be. So especially for a professional couple, holding off to their thirties seems right for Hannah's parents.

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27bored

27bored

I laughed when Crazy knocked over that thing and Hannah started going "ow! ow!" because even though it didn't hit her, it could've. Girls...do that sometimes, and it's kind of aggravating and adorable at the same time.

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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

(edited)

I've been thinking a lot about why it bothers me so much that Tad was off having a random hookup in NY without telling Lorraine. I think is because yes while essentially the are no longer together, Tad has Come out, etc, to me it's sort of a lack of respect. They are still married. What if Lorraine had found some other man on some online thing and did all this? I would still haea problem with it. I guess it ma!es sense sortof but it makes me sad that Tad is being inconsiderate of Lorraine's feeling's.

I don't think Fran is gay but I wouldn't say it's out of the box for the show to go there. I thought his roommate just proved he knows how to handle the crazy, it explains how he's dealing with dating Hannah.

I'm still really only interested in Ray's storylines but I still didn't like his storyline this week. I could care less about his feuding with a more hipster than our hipster café shop. That's probably why I missed Marnie this week. Even his plot last season with running for congress wasn't all that memorable except for his scenes with Shoshanna and Marnie. But yeah someone mentioned above, Ray's is probably losinb th caffine battle of 2016 because everything is a coffee shop and I dont live in New York but I can imagine it's probably even more there so he doesn't have much a leg to stand on.

Marnie and Desi probably went to some sort of bed and breakfast for the honeymoon that looks woodsy and forest like but is really not like that at all because I highly doubt that Marnie would ever go into the woods and I feel like Desi while he tries to act like the forest man of the earth something tells me it's all a part of his facade.

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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Lone Wolf

Lone Wolf

 

 

I also wondered if the "go get my wallet after my sex romp" scene was inspired by the movie "Sideways". Same thing happened in it.

 

Did anyone else catch the bit when Tad was crying, and he mentioned the hookup's "big dog", and then when we see it it's really a tiny little thing?

 

I picked up on both of those.  In fact, Hannah made a comment about how cute the dog was, and I was wondering if the underlying point was to drive home the contrast between what her father said and what the reality was.

 

Hmm. Anyone know how old the characters are meant to be? At 60 and 58 they'd be on the old side to be hannahs parents.

 

But yeah, I'd go with dad has been monogamous for so long he just completely forgot.

 

 

Maybe, but speaking as a straight man of the same generation the last thing I would forget would be protection, especially if it was my first time in a long time. with a new partner.  And if it were my first gay hookup? I'd be shrink-wrapped in cellophane.

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Kat From Jersey

Kat From Jersey

(edited)

I didn't mind this episode, but I can't help wonder, wth happened at the wedding....to many loose threads. I guess those will come up soon enough.

 

Forget about the wedding... I'm wondering what ridiculously pretentious place they chose for their honeymoon!

 

OMG, Elijah.  I adore him, even though he's such an enabler, quite selfish, and not really a good friend.  But I'd want to hang out with him anyway!

 

 

Please forgive my ignorance, but when Elijah and Dill left the bar and Elijah said he was going downtown, and Dill said he was going uptown, was that a euphemism or code for something? The line delivery was pretty deliberate, and Elijah looked so disappointed afterwards that it seemed like more than just "gee, too bad we live in opposite ends of the city".

 

I was wondering that as well.  I'm a clueless hetero woman, but I thought it might be some secret top/bottom conversation!

Edited by Kat From Jersey
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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

As I said in an earlier post I believe Marnie and Desis honeymoon probably was some sort of bed and breakfast that had a atmosphere of a forest camping vibe but was really a fancy standard type of thing; I say this because Marnie would never go camping and Desi for all his "beliefs" seems like he is a real poser and something a part of his 'I like soft guitar and acoustic music and love being with nature' but at the end of the day, he wants to sleep in a bed and not on the ground outside.

I'm kind of glad the show didn't make us sit though the probably written by them Desi and Marnie vows. The only thing that would have been worthwhile would have been watching everyone's reactions to said vows. Other than that it would have been awful, we've heard the lyrics to songs written by Desi and Marnie I can't imagine that vows being anything brilliant.

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qtpye

qtpye

Allow me to fanwank

 

Marnie and Desi would recite clueless and pretentious vows and then inform the audience that it is their new song, which will be for sale during the reception.

 

Then Desi would invite his spiritual guru to lead the audience in a chant to link the wedding with the harmonies of nature...and that everyone at the wedding could experience the beauty of their "once in a lifetime love"

 

Cut to scene of Ray gagging

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bunnywithanaxe

bunnywithanaxe

Allow me to fanwank

 

Marnie and Desi would recite clueless and pretentious vows and then inform the audience that it is their new song, which will be for sale during the reception.

 

In fact, to hell with reciting them, I would bet they'd just bust out their guitars and make the song the vows.
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heatherchandler

heatherchandler

Of all the reasons to hate the douchey "helvetica" baristas, the one that sticks in my craw is "You upset they!" It's "You upset them!", douchecanoe, don't use trans inclusion to push your anti-grammar agenda.

 

HA!  At first I thought the person's name was "They" but yeah your explanation makes sense.  Really annoying!

 

Also, someone may have mentioned this - the trans barista was played by Grace, Lena's sister.

 

Elijah makes the show for me. Did he say "no way Cosette?" When he saw the mess that was Hannah and her Dad sobbing in the restaurant??

 

 

I wasn't sure what he meant by that.  Cosette from Les Miserables?

 

I used to like Hannah's dad but the gay storyline is falling flat for me. Maybe because he always seemed like such a nice kind guy who loved his wife, even last season after coming out. And now he's running off to New York to hook up with random guys?

 

I do not like the gay dad storyline, but I think Lena just really loves Peter Scollari (who doesn't??) and she wanted to give him a big role with a lot to do this season.  This must have been her way of letting him shine. 

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cpcathy

cpcathy

I like the fact that he's practically traumatized by it, that finally coming out is not something to celebrate (for him) but to be afraid of. It gives us some rreal emotions and hopefully later in the season or next season, he will be comfortable with who he is, maybe he and guy from Benson will stay together!

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Pallas

Pallas

I took uptown vs. downtown to indicate different worlds: NYC establishment rich, and NYC artistic/hipster poor. And the resolution of their first encounter was similarly Big-and-Carrie-part-cute, with a limousine as their chaperone. 

 

Tad may have neglected to bring/to use a condom because of his ambivalence. He was partly in denial about what he was actually doing, and at the same time, wanted to be rebelliously unfettered doing it. In the way of some girls and women, sometimes, in another time, who didn't want to be seen by themselves or their partners as planning to possibly want sex with a stranger, before even leaving the house.

 

Tad also flew halfway across the country to have sex...in the same city where his (and his wife's) only child lives. I'd usually think that Tad left his wallet at the scene in order to have an excuse to return -- and he may have -- but his lost wallet also gave him an excuse to have to confide in Hannah. He wanted to fuck, but felt it was wrong; didn't want to feel it was wrong, but did; did fuck and did feel it was wrong (and maybe great)?...and had to tell someone, who still had to love him, after.  

 

It's the same many reasons Tad didn't try to prevent Hannah from answering the call from her mother, his wife, as he sat right there, looking abashed...abashed and in New York, having fucked a man and with their daughter at his side. This story may turn out to be as much about divorce and divorcing parents, as it is about late-discovered gay orientation. 

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clack

clack

I believe that barista Grace was not saying "they"' but "zhe" --the newly coined gender neutral pronoun. In Gender Studies classes at my university (Grace Dunham's alma mater, BTW) students are asked to introduce themselves on the first day of class by their own preferred pronoun.

Lena's commentary, on the little Behind the Episode segment, suggests that rather than a Portlandia-type satire on the hipster baristas, this scene was meant to show how behind the times Ray had become.

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peeayebee

peeayebee

I believe that barista Grace was not saying "they"' but "zhe" --the newly coined gender neutral pronoun. In Gender Studies classes at my university (Grace Dunham's alma mater, BTW) students are asked to introduce themselves on the first day of class by their own preferred pronoun.

I learned something new! Thanks.

 

Lena's commentary, on the little Behind the Episode segment, suggests that rather than a Portlandia-type satire on the hipster baristas, this scene was meant to show how behind the times Ray had become.

Well, that didn't come across. Maybe we'll see more of Ray being behind the times in future eps to support that idea.

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clack

clack

The point I think is that just as Ray's coffee shop has become outdated, so to has his cultural attitudes -- specifically, his attitude towards "gender fluidity". Ray's overall story has always been that of a man a decade or so older than the rest of the main characters, a man just enough out-of-step with the others that he is continually being caught flat-footed.

But whether intentional or not, another aspect of Ray's overall arc has also been that of a man with a big heart caught up in a social circle of younger, narcissistic assholes, and his always giving them the benefit of the doubt. How can our sympathy not be with Ray as he is driven out of the rival coffee shop with sneering racist and sexist insults?

How odd is it that the secret ( and I have to imagine unintended) hero of a show called 'Girls' is a near middle-aged man?

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Crazy8

Crazy8

How odd is it that the secret ( and I have to imagine unintended) hero of a show called 'Girls' is a near middle-aged man?

Ray is literally the only reason I watch the show now. The only other character I have any time for is Fran. It's weird because as a woman I can't identify with any of the female characters anymore.

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scrb

scrb

I don't have to like every character to find their antics entertaining, interesting, repulsive (yet I cannot look away).

 

Jesse does some horrific things but I still pay attention to see what she says or does next.

 

Compare this to most other shows, it's not boring.  Even people who hate-watch have to admit that.

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clack

clack

GIRLS : the story of a decent but lonely small business owner who is drawn into a social circle of irresponsible, narcisstic younger people. At the end, disillusioned, he renounces this social circle and moves on, sadder but wiser, to a more healthy choice of friends.

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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

(edited)

GIRLS : the story of a decent but lonely small business owner who is drawn into a social circle of irresponsible, narcisstic younger people. At the end, disillusioned, he renounces this social circle and moves on, sadder but wiser, to a more healthy choice of friends.

And then.. He gets his own spin off.

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

Well when Ray first arrived on the show in the pilot he was Charlie's friends because they were in a band together and in the pilot he had a girlfriend who I believe was around the same age as the girls. I'm no sure why he is always around people their age but at this point, it seems to be just coincidence and circumstances due to constantly dating them/hooking up with the girls or giving them jobs. The only other person he talks to is his boss, the owner of the coffee shops.

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CofCinci

CofCinci

Does anyone wonder why the heck Ray does not seem to hang out with more people his own age? I mean is Ray supposed to represent Gen X?

He's in love with Marine and surrounds himself with her friends so that they can continue to cross paths.
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Readalot

Readalot

(edited)

Speaking about Charlie, I bet if he and his millions showed up at Marnie's door she would drop Desi like a hot potato and never look back.

Edited by Readalot
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Hecate7

Hecate7

On 2/29/2016 at 7:28 PM, txhorns79 said:

I think that would only make sense if we are supposed to believe that he didn't read a newspaper over the past 30+ years.  I mean, even people in a monogamous relationship would be generally aware of AIDS and STDs, even if they didn't believe themselves at risk.

It also doesn't make sense if her parents are supposed to be in their fifties. That would put their single, sexually active years RIGHT in the middle of the AIDS crisis.

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Pallas

Pallas

On 4/29/2016 at 2:47 AM, Hecate7 said:

t also doesn't make sense if her parents are supposed to be in their fifties. That would put their single, sexually active years RIGHT in the middle of the AIDS crisis.

But maybe they're not: Scolari and Baker are both 60+, and it makes sense to me that Hannah was conceived in her mother's late 30's. Her parents may already have been married or at least monogamous by 1980: removed from the singles scene (and secured within the ivory/ivied tower of academia) as AIDS arrived. It's amazing what we can ignore if we don't, fundamentally, think it applies to us.

Mostly though I think the show was going for a simple role reversal: Hannah's father as the adolescent, too naive, immature and driven to even begin to assess what risks are worth risking. A stage in which, with regards to sex, Hannah may have a tiny edge on him. Or not.

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