S02.E08: Episode 8

[Glade]

Seeing all these disgusting, fake, hypocritical, self-obsessed corrupt assholes act like yet again THEY are the victims/heroes and can now be folded into stories like Columbine was so fucking ridiculous and hysterical.  You did everything in your power to cover up and victim blame a boy who was drugged and raped and smear his mother into the mud.  I really hope that everything comes out soon--about who beat and drugged and raped Taylor.  Otherwise this show is just a bunch of ugly assholes for me to ff through.

[izabella]

I thought the scene with Becca where she was watching students grieve Wes's death was telling. I felt like she was viewing them as an outsider. An outsider having difficulty experiencing empathy for a dead classmate. Is she a sociopath? She did rat herself out so I'm not sure but that thought has crossed my mind.

 

 

I had a different take on that.  I believe that guys like Wes don't just wake up one day and turn into homophobic assholes who beat up other kids.  I doubt Taylor was the first kid he ever beat up, or ganged up on to abuse with or without violence.  I suspect he's an asshole every day, and that's no secret to any of the students.  So Becca is watching this outpouring of grief, but she's cynical about it because she knows Wes was an asshole and the kids laying flowers probably also knew it too and they aren't really grieving HIM.  They might be grieving that a tragedy ocurred, but not because they cared about Wes.

[sjohnson]

Many teens find the death of someone young traumatic because it hints at their own mortality. Apparently for some it's the first time they grasp the reality of death. 

[tennisgurl]

This show, you guys. This show. I am sure I will have more to say soon, but I honestly feel so drained right now. All the props in the world to the actors, who are amazing, and the writers, who are telling an extremely compelling story (albeit with some odd tweaks here and there). I feel like I need to watch New Girl or something, or eat some chocolate. This is a really great show, but its a lot to get through. Woe to anyone who tries to binge watch this thing.  

[RedheadZombie]

Am I supposed to be impressed that Terry has shown a glimmer of self-awareness?  So she's ashamed of her behavior, but what has she done about it?  She met with the woman she fired - big deal.  That was to make Terry feel better.  Is the fired woman supposed to feel better that Terry fired her because of deflection?  That Terry fired her because, in her own way, she had issues with her as a black woman.  The woman still doesn't have a job.  I'll be impressed by Terry when she does something about the absolute devastation she and her family have wrought on Anne and Taylor.  And so glad your husband feels vindicated.  You've found your perfect match and Kevin takes after his parents.

 

I was furious with the Coach and his hypocritical ass.  He had the audacity to lecture Leslie when he could have stepped up and investigated the rape allegations his damn self.  He could have laid down the law with his own players and outed his own bad actors.  He cares about winning and the prestige of being the coach. It was sickening to watch the stars in his eyes, wielding clout that allowed him to have a say in Leslie's termination.  He wanted her gone so he could step into the inner circle, not because she mishandled the Taylor situation.  

 

When his daughter admitted that she sold drugs to Taylor, he immediately went into protect mode to save her ass instead of taking her to the police department to make a statement. 

 

I'm amazed at my turn around on the coach - I'm through with him.  What a little weasel.  The endless obsession with his "boys".  And when he used the word "values", I wanted to vomit.  Look around coach, what values are you actually teaching?  What's your little girl up to?  He's the perfect example of why we're a country who raises student athletes to believe they're above the law.  Sports first, academics secondary.

 

I hope Coach's wife, Anne, and maybe Sebastian (if he's truly a good guy-- and sometimes people are good, and will go out of their way for a good cause) will somehow work together. And maybe Eric's dad, who often has not known what to do but has tried and mostly succeeded in not doing anything too terrible, unless I am forgetting. And Grace... I wonder if she might be able to help in some way-- she probably has access to a lot of info. If she were offered an opportunity to help, I bet she'd step up, even if she's not a rabble rousing leader type.

 

I think one of the lessons we're supposed to learn is how even the most well-meaning and loving parents are almost helpless against the "system".  Both Taylor and Eric (more so Taylor, of course) have been greatly disadvantaged by their parents powerlessness, and lack of money/power.  To put a twist on it, the family with money/power/influence is black.  Now what?  I really think that's the true reason for the separate high school story line.  It would have been overly simplistic to imply that Kevin's family has it easy because they're rich, and that money trumps race - which it doesn't.  So we have a half-assed storyline of the poor Black and Hispanic students.

 

But maybe we're seeing a story about the most powerless doing the right thing.  Anne turned in her own son.  Sebastian is certainly going out of his way to help.  Eric's father seems to be a very decent man, and maybe Eric will confide in him, and he'll encourage Eric to come forward.  Also, Coach's wife has a greater conscious than her weasel husband, and perhaps she'll have something to say.

 

It seems to be confirmed that Kevin had no idea that Eric was gay, so the theory that Kevin drugged Taylor to help Eric was wrong.  I'm still sticking with the theory that Taylor was invited because they team planned to haze him, the drugging may or may not have been because of that, and Eric capitalized on the opportunity by planning a tryst with Taylor.  This is why I'm having a problem believing Eric was ignorant about the drugging.  Even if he was moronic enough to miss his partner was practically comatose, he would have been in on the bullying plan.

 

You are correct there, but what the Marshall school principal saw were two boys beating up one boy, which is thuggish behavior IMO, the Hispanic students also didn't look past their own biases either.

 

The Hispanic kid also unleashed the "N" word, so it seemed race related.  They seemed most upset that this black kid was talking to one of "theirs".  They had ownership of Evy as a Hispanic girl, and the black kid should go sniffing after his own kind.  IMO, this was not as simple as protecting a girl from a male taking advantage of her.  I think it's a story that needs to be told, but it's bogging down the good story for me.  I'm sure that Hispanics often feel ignored in the talk of racism/bigotry.  These students felt that since the principal was black, he was taking up for the black student.  The problem is - I don't care.  They tried to make me care by connecting Evy to Taylor, but they haven't even spoken for several episodes, and she's only tangentially connected to the storyline I'm interested in.

 

Connor Jessup has truly been a revelation to me. I remember him on Falling Skies but that show annoyed me so much I've all but blocked it out. I loved his visitation scene with Anne. I loved the way he couldn't look her in the face for more than a second or two and how his eyes kept darting to the wall, the ceiling, anywhere but his mother's face even as Anne couldn't look away from him.

 

I just read a review in which a critic praised Connor Jessup's acting as a break-out performance that hasn't been seen since Timothy Hutton's in Ordinary People.  I can't imagine higher praise.

[vixenbynight]

My take on the Eric and his Dad moment was that he was saying you don't have to go and meet up with strangers and put yourself in danger and hide. He was saying he would try and be there to help him figure out how to try and navigate this out in the open.

At least I hope that's what he was getting at. It never occurred to me that he was was hinting at something awful.

Agreed. Eric's father sees his son hurting and wants him to know that he isn't alone and that he is there for him.

That moment made Eric realize that he isn't alone in this situation and hopefully, he'll start telling the real truth about what happened that night at the party.

It certainly made him stand up and confront Kevin about what he did, to get Wes and "his boys" to physically beat up Taylor.

[ToukieSmith]

The last thing the lawyer said was she needed to have people see Taylor in a different light. If they get dirt on Leyland maybe people will see how Taylor was treated  and helping him get more sympathy.

 

Exposing Leyland's secrets on the internet is a scorched earth strategy.  Taylor will still go to jail and everyone else will be disgraced.  Instead of mutually assured destruction, blackmail may be a better strategy.  Leslie is a bitch, but she does have skill and financial connections.  How hard would she work FOR Anne to prevent a sordid secret from coming out?

Edited February 26, 2016 by ToukieSmith

[Neurochick]

The Hispanic kid also unleashed the "N" word, so it seemed race related.  They seemed most upset that this black kid was talking to one of "theirs".  They had ownership of Evy as a Hispanic girl, and the black kid should go sniffing after his own kind.  IMO, this was not as simple as protecting a girl from a male taking advantage of her.  I think it's a story that needs to be told, but it's bogging down the good story for me.  I'm sure that Hispanics often feel ignored in the talk of racism/bigotry.  These students felt that since the principal was black, he was taking up for the black student.  The problem is - I don't care.  They tried to make me care by connecting Evy to Taylor, but they haven't even spoken for several episodes, and she's only tangentially connected to the storyline I'm interested in.

 

 

I agree, it's an interesting story, but it makes no sense in the telling of THIS story.  

 

The Hispanic students were not defending Evy from a young man who couldn't take no for an answer, they were pissed because he was black and talking to "one of theirs."  

 

The principal in the Marshall school all but said that he felt Hispanics didn't know what racism is because they didn't suffer the same type of bigotry than black people did with lynchings, church bombings, hoses, dogs; (see Selma).  If I truly believe that, then when the Hispanics students and parents talk about racism, I'm going to be like "WTF are you talking about?"

 

Schools like Leyland become systems and forget about the children they are supposed to serve.  The school's more concerned with a winning basketball team and pretty buildings, no one's there for the students.  

[RedheadZombie]

I'm wondering if Leslie ends in suicide.

[PQuinn]

Oh, Jesus.

[Madding crowd]

I would be surprised if Leslie committed suicide and they have already had one suicide attempt. I think she has enough connections that she will land someone else unless the mysterious Sebastian finds something which directly implicates her in something. People like Leslie often change positions because the tide often turns in terms of politics, or who is running the show. I have seen women like her drift through a variety of positions, all making big money of course.

 

I still continue to think it makes no sense for Sebastian to take his daughters out of school and drive to another state with the intent to possibly dig up something through a computer. It would make more sense to me if he already had some information. In any case, I only care about Taylor and to a lessor extent Eric, so it won't matter to me what ends up happening to any of the school staff.

 

The one bright spot I thought was that after Eric's dad told him he would be there for him, Eric felt good about confronting but not threatening Kevin. Good acting all around. 

[albaniantv]

I turned into this show by accident and stayed because of the compelling acting and unusual storyline. It's hard to take, like this episode, but worth it. And yes, I agree, if you can binge watch this one, you've a better eye than I, Gunga-Din.

[nutty1]

I watched the show last night.

I agree with a lot of what you all said, but I did like the insert of real people. It was a good parallel. 

I wonder if anything more will happen to Kevin, his story seems all but forgotten. I wish it would.

I am looking most forward to what Sebastian finds out.

 

I did not watch last season. I know there will be no happy endings, but did the show at least tie up the loose ends? If yes, they have a lot of ends to tie!

[cuecat]

I still continue to think it makes no sense for Sebastian to take his daughters out of school and drive to another state with the intent to possibly dig up something through a computer. It would make more sense to me if he already had some information. In any case, I only care about Taylor and to a lessor extent Eric, so it won't matter to me what ends up happening to any of the school staff.

 

 

 

I don't understand taking the daughters.  Where were they when he was talking to Anne?  But I can see why he would need to go there to dig up info.  I think they established that he is a vigilante of some kind.  I think he would need to go there to find out the who what where.   I doubt they are going to go this far but even the hacking.  To break into the schools network it would be easiest to get on it.  Maybe by hacking into a wifi system of the schools.  Also to gather evidence about the students phones...but this is not the show Mr. Robot so I doubt they will go there.  But even to just find out the stories.  Talking to the kids and other people involved will help to find out what to look for.  But with two kids along?

[PQuinn]

 

 

I just read a review in which a critic praised Connor Jessup's acting as a break-out performance that hasn't been seen since Timothy Hutton's in Ordinary People.  I can't imagine higher praise.

That was me, I think! I'd had Ordinary People on the brain because someone had tweeted that he'd watched it again and that if he were an Academy voter  back then he would have chosen it for Best Picture, too; so I went off and viewed it on iTunes and was just as taken with it as the first time I saw it, and also with how great a youthful Hutton would have been as Taylor, and I saw elements of Conrad Jarrett in what Connor Jessup is doing. I'm not sure it's intentional. Anyway in a company of actors, Jessup is terrific. I hope all the younger performers go on to have great careers.

Edited February 26, 2016 by PQuinn

[Neurochick]

I really wonder what Sebastian's deal is but taking his daughters out of school isn't good at all.  I wonder if something happened to him, or a relative of his.   And it has to be pretty big to take your daughters out of school, get into a car and drive someplace.  

 

I just had a weird thought, that this will end with the principal of the Marshall school becoming principal of Leyland.  

[Woebegone]

I think from here on out only Taylor's future is in anyway predictable. He killed someone; he's going to prison. The only question now is how much time he is going to do or, ah um, they still have the death penalty in Indiana don't they? He might get a more lenient sentence if Anne and Sebastiene manage to change the narrative enough, but with the kind of cynicism a show like American Crime has, I wouldn't be surprised if a child psychiatrist hired by the prosecution determines that Taylor is a remorseless sociopath (and then writes a book about it afterwards).

What will happen to everybody else is less certain because they all still have something to lose. Eric, Kevin, and Becca could all go to jail. Coach Chris might get fired. Leslie might kill herself, like someone above mentioned. Anne might have another breakdown and be hospitalized again. Eric's dad might kill himself too.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Ranking The Most Tear-Inducing Moments Of The Latest American Crime
Everyone's dealing with the fallout from Taylor's actions by coming apart at the seams, making power plays, leaving town, and deciding enough is enough and it's time to fight back.

[sara416]

I want to rewatch this episode as well as last week's to make sure I picked up everything, but I'm not sure I can handle it. Felicity Huffman was amazing this week. I have trouble finding words for this show. It's just phenomenal. 

[Armchair Critic]

 I wish they wouldn't have brought the shooting into the story because now I feel like the rape story is going to get swept under the rug. I still want to know what happened and who actually raped him.

[tennisgurl]

I really wish they had stuck to the rape story line too, especially with them doubling down on the school shooting stuff, with the interviews with survivors this week. I feel like the rape story is going to be brushed aside for the more "timely and edgy" school shooter story, although, honestly, I am having a hard time with the school shooter stuff. I mean, its still wonderfully compelling and well done, but I feel like turning this into a school shooter story is going to overwhelm the show. Its like the plot with the public school and its race issues. Its a good story, but what does it have to do with the main story? Its like this season wants to mention as many social issues in one season as possible, but in doing so, its distracting from its main plot/issue, which has more than enough drama to run a season. 

[isitpink]

The longer the show goes on, and more of the story is told without any answers regarding the rape, I fear the result may be that Taylor was not raped at all. At least not in the sense we think he was raped. These points keep nagging at me:

*In the 1st episode, Taylor is watching basketball practice and scrolling through photos of Eric on his phone with sheepish grin on his face. When he stumbles upon pics of himself incapacitated at the party, he becomes upset. He had no inkling he was raped before seeing these photos? He told police he texted Eric that he wanted to see him the day after (on a Sat or Sun) because he needed him to admit what he'd done. So then he did know but still showed up (Monday) to watch the entire team practice? Confusing.

*Taylor explains that he sent his rough encounter fantasy texts to Eric because he made him "feel safe." This sounds more like a relationship than a hook-up. The two seem to have a lot in common to bond over. They're both from less fortunate families, both transferred from Marshall to Leyland, both struggling with the idea/reality of being gay.

*Both Grindr type hook-ups we've seen with Eric show him as a timid boy who "only wants to make out." He was even asked by Van Dad if he likes to "give or take" and still stuck with his make out only plan.

*When Taylor texted Becca after his beat down to get drugs, it was clear he had texted her before. This was not his first request. I'm wondering if Eric's insistance that Taylor, "Be fun. Just be fun," prompted Taylor himself to seek Becca's help from her baggie. Eric may not have had any idea he had taken anything. Taylor may not have had any idea what he took.

Sorry this is so very long. Does it seem possible that Taylor wasn't raped in the drugged and taken advantage of way, but more in the incapacitated and unable to give consent way? And that Eric may not have even known he was unable to consent due to his rough sex fantasies?

[sjohnson]

...He had no inkling he was raped before seeing these photos? So then he did know but still showed up (Monday) to watch the entire team practice? Confusing.

*Both Grindr type hook-ups we've seen with Eric show him as a timid boy who "only wants to make out." He was even asked by Van Dad if he likes to "give or take" and still stuck with his make out only plan....

...Does it seem possible that Taylor wasn't raped in the drugged and taken advantage of way, but more in the incapacitated and unable to give consent way? And that Eric may not have even known he was unable to consent due to his rough sex fantasies?

Denial and pretense are coping mechanisms, and I think Taylor's public behavior was entirely compatible with him ignoring as much as possible. 

 

It can be hard to read these things, but Eric struck me as playing with his older suitors by withholding as much sexual contact as possible but still do something. And really it seemed to me that his venting about Taylor to the older guy made it pretty clear that he wasn't even going to deliver that much...which was why I guess the dude lost it and attacked. This is one thing that might have happened with Eric. (By the way, "making out" may have included a hand job?)

 

Whether any drugs other than alcohol were used is irrelevant I think. And I also think Evy's testimony shows that Taylor was incapacitated far too quickly for it to have been just him drinking. He was pressured or doped to leave him incapacitated. It is possible that his feeble efforts at saying no enraged Eric who violently took his due. Like the guy in the van who attacked him, he wasn't going to be jerked around. In any event, despite Eric's denial, there was no consent, ergo it was rape. However, the events we have seen have clearly indicated that Kevin and others have something to fear exposed. My best guess is that Kevin arranged for the team to watch Eric "making the team" like the party was supposed to be about. In this scenario, they would all have been helping incapacitate Taylor. 

[Eolivet]

I got the impression that this was exactly the point-all along, we were seeing the complex series of events that can result in a traumatic incident like a school shooting, we just didn't realize that was the narrative we were in. I understand why some find that jarring or unfair from a storytelling perspective, but I see why they did it this way, and I think it's a powerful way to frame the story. 

 

I totally agree with this. And I don't feel cheated -- I think the show is taking on the very real idea of "people just don't wake up one morning and decide to shoot someone." I think it's kind of an ingenious storytelling method, actually: take the most innocent, down-on-his-luck kid you can find, throw him into one trauma after another until he's so beaten down (literally) that he snaps and decides to do something about it. Suddenly, the "school shooter" isn't evil (I reserve this for kid-on-kid violence as opposed to some homicidal maniac like Newtown) and the story is far more complex.

 

I also think the show is drawing a line between the kids and the adults. The kids are in some ways handling this better than the adults, who are running around like chickens with their heads cut off, trying to protect their own. But that's the way it always is, I feel like: teachers, authority figures, pillars of the community all talk a good game, but fall off their noble perches in a second when it's their kid (or their kids/school, in Leslie's case).

 

By watching this all unfold, it looks less like a murder and more like death by a thousand tiny cuts, at least to me. All the decisions that everyone made along the way that added up to what eventually happened. Neurochick said long ago this was a show about shades of gray -- nowhere was that more evident than tonight.

 

I still find the other school principal's story completely superfluous -- as superfluous as the real life testimonials were tonight -- but I'm fascinated to see where this goes. At every opportunity for healing, the show has instead chosen more violence (as is often the case in real life). I'll be curious if it finally stops with Sebastian.

 

Dan was horrible tonight, but he was right about one thing in my eyes. Somebody has to be a leader. Somebody has to say "This stops with me," and nobody has so far: neither an adult nor a kid. Someone has to own their role in this and stop deflecting blame: only then will the cycle of violence (this "American Crime Spree" if you will) finally be over.

[Woebegone]

The longer the show goes on, and more of the story is told without any answers regarding the rape, I fear the result may be that Taylor was not raped at all. At least not in the sense we think he was raped. These points keep nagging at me:

*In the 1st episode, Taylor is watching basketball practice and scrolling through photos of Eric on his phone with sheepish grin on his face. When he stumbles upon pics of himself incapacitated at the party, he becomes upset. He had no inkling he was raped before seeing these photos? He told police he texted Eric that he wanted to see him the day after (on a Sat or Sun) because he needed him to admit what he'd done. So then he did know but still showed up (Monday) to watch the entire team practice? Confusing.

 

It's really hard to discern until we've seen the entire season what is a clue and what is a plothole left by the writers. Like, I thought the fact that Taylor had brought Evy to the party he was planning a hook-up with Eric as something that was really unlikely, but then the show explained it later. I agree that Taylor's behaviour at the start of the show is odd. Yeah, you can explain it has him as being in denial or not being remembering what happened until after the photos came out, but he contradicts this theory himself when he said that he contacted Eric the very next day to accuse him of rape (Taylor does not specifically mention when he contacted Eric, but Eric says that it was the very next day and the police have access to his texts, so he is unlikely to have lied). I think we have to wait and see. It's possible that the writers just wanted all the major teenage characters in the same room at the start of the show.

 

Denial and pretense are coping mechanisms, and I think Taylor's public behavior was entirely compatible with him ignoring as much as possible. 

 

It can be hard to read these things, but Eric struck me as playing with his older suitors by withholding as much sexual contact as possible but still do something. And really it seemed to me that his venting about Taylor to the older guy made it pretty clear that he wasn't even going to deliver that much...which was why I guess the dude lost it and attacked. This is one thing that might have happened with Eric. (By the way, "making out" may have included a hand job?)

 

Whether any drugs other than alcohol were used is irrelevant I think. And I also think Evy's testimony shows that Taylor was incapacitated far too quickly for it to have been just him drinking. He was pressured or doped to leave him incapacitated. It is possible that his feeble efforts at saying no enraged Eric who violently took his due. Like the guy in the van who attacked him, he wasn't going to be jerked around. In any event, despite Eric's denial, there was no consent, ergo it was rape. However, the events we have seen have clearly indicated that Kevin and others have something to fear exposed. My best guess is that Kevin arranged for the team to watch Eric "making the team" like the party was supposed to be about. In this scenario, they would all have been helping incapacitate Taylor. 

 

Why would Eric get enraged and attack Taylor if Taylor was doped and incapacitated?

 

Also, Eric never told Kevin that he was gay (this was confirmed in the argument that they had in this episode) so it seems extremely unlikely that the team worked together to help Eric rape Taylor.

[sjohnson]

^^^My belief, well founded or not, is that Kevin's gaydar is fully functional and what Eric told him and what Kevin admits to knowing have nothing to do with Kevin's motives. As for why the team does anything, it's because Kevin wants them to, like beating up Taylor for talking. But to clarify, Kevin having the team treat Taylor like a frat hazing isn't "helping" Eric. It's turning his deliciously sneaky rendezvous with Taylor into him pushing Taylor away in every way but the literal one. 

 

I do see your point. The thing is, pretty much the whole team is well aware they did something that could be construed by objective eyes as criminal. They aren't furious at Taylor for false accusations against them, they're furious about him telling, period. And they're aren't furious at Eric for doing something they didn't know about that could get them all into trouble, they share his anger that Taylor would as they see it deny his consent. 

 

The cops have covered up the "making the team" orgy aspect from anyone who isn't committed to protecting the team/school. Maybe that's what the others are afraid of. Come to think of it, that may be what Sebastian is on to.

Edited February 28, 2016 by sjohnson

[Calamity Jane]

Just want to throw out there that a lot of the info about bullying at Columbine was overblown in early reports. Harris and Klebold were not bullied in the same way that Taylor was, certainly, and Harris, at least, was a straight-up psychopath, so I'm not loving the parallels being drawn here (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-04-13-columbine-myths_N.htm). Bullying is certainly a problem for other reasons, but I am not sure why this show is pushing the bullying --> school shootings line, when that's not really borne out by evidence. (https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/bullying_school_shootings_1.1.pdf)

Likewise with the story that they targeted Christians.  In fact, according to a meticulously researched book that went moment by moment and witness by witness, it was actually the opposite.  So much bad information out there that doesn't help us get to the root of what causes things like Columbine to happen.  Maybe we're a bit past "the devil made him/them do it," but not much.  The anti-bullying campaign is so pervasive that kids believe that someone accidentally bumping into them or calling them a name one time is bullying, and the kids who really are bullies use this to exculpate themselves.  I have no clue what the answer is, but what we're trying, although it has many good points to make, is not working as intended.  Yet. 

[Woebegone]

^^^My belief, well founded or not, is that Kevin's gaydar is fully functional and what Eric told him and what Kevin admits to knowing have nothing to do with Kevin's motives. As for why the team does anything, it's because Kevin wants them to, like beating up Taylor for talking. But to clarify, Kevin having the team treat Taylor like a frat hazing isn't "helping" Eric. It's turning his deliciously sneaky rendezvous with Taylor into him pushing Taylor away in every way but the literal one. 

 

I do see your point. The thing is, pretty much the whole team is well aware they did something that could be construed by objective eyes as criminal. They aren't furious at Taylor for false accusations against them, they're furious about him telling, period. And they're aren't furious at Eric for doing something they didn't know about that could get them all into trouble, they share his anger that Taylor would as they see it deny his consent. 

 

The cops have covered up the "making the team" orgy aspect from anyone who isn't committed to protecting the team/school. Maybe that's what the others are afraid of. Come to think of it, that may be what Sebastian is on to.

 

I agree that Kevin could have known that Eric was gay without Eric explicitly telling him. Kevin did say that Taylor was at the party looking like a bitch who wanted to be 'turnt out' and this intuition might have led him to direct the team independently of whatever Eric and Taylor were planning. I thought you meant that there was some kind of conspiracy between Eric, Kevin, and the entire team to sexually assault Taylor, which didn't seem probable if Eric hadn't trusted Kevin enough to let him in on his secret. The team didn't seem to know that Eric was gay either until he came out.

 

I'm still not sure the team had anything to do with what happened to Taylor at the party beyond taking photos and putting them online. I think, as you've guessed, what they're really worried about is people finding out what happened to the girls at the party. The "making the team" tradition and date rape drugs being present at the same party seems to point to this. And I think the team is mad at Eric, because not only is he a pervert, but also because his indiscretions with Taylor managed to bring police attention to a party that they would very much like everyone to forget. I think only Kevin's smooth-talking managed to redirect their hostility back to Taylor.

[jb1183]

I've grudgingly accepted that we're never going to get full clarity on what happened at the party, however much we may want it. For this show, the emotional fallout and impact is more important than the cold, hard facts. It's a shame because, as bold a move as the shooting was and as brilliantly executed and marvelously acted as the fallout has been, the questions and issues surrounding the rape accusations were the most compelling aspect of the season and I'd have preferred the focus remain there. These misgivings don't stop me from continuing to be in awe of the writing and performances and from thinking this season has been some of the finest TV I've watched in a very long time. But I do wish I was more confident that we'd end the season with even slightly more answers about what happened that night than when we started.

 

And if the season really does end without Taylor and Eric ever once occupying the same frame, my TV viewing life will forever feel incomplete. But it's looking less and less likely with every passing episode. 

Edited February 28, 2016 by jb1183

[mansonlamps]

I guess it's realistic since probably most often the parents, police, judge, jury, lawyers, etc. don't really know what happened fully in an event like that, they hear the pieces they are given and deal with the fallout.

[sjohnson]

The shooting is more important than the rape. Therefore none of the issues surrounding the rape have to be settled, not even for the audience. I'm inclined to see this as a slackening of the dramatic tension. But it does explain I think why critics like Sepinwall have suddenly found American Crime much easier to deal with. 

[Neurochick]

Sorry this is so very long. Does it seem possible that Taylor wasn't raped in the drugged and taken advantage of way, but more in the incapacitated and unable to give consent way? And that Eric may not have even known he was unable to consent due to his rough sex fantasies?

 

 

To me, this show is more about how social media has changed the "game" if you will, when it comes to these types of crimes.  I believe Taylor said something like, "I was too messed up to consent or say no." 

 

I don't think Taylor would have said anything had the pictures not shown up AND Taylor was again victimized, he was suspended because of the pictures.  Taylor couldn't even heal from...well anything because the pictures were all on social media.  

 

I think that the "American Crime" is the social media rape of Taylor.  I also think that's what Sebastian's role is; perhaps he's a crusader or a superhero in this story.  

[Tiger]

You all have already covered anything I could say, except I am increasingly perplexed as to why they cast Andre 3000 and the guy playing Kevin. Their acting is so poor IMHO, that I can see their scene partners actively struggling to carry the scene.

In this weeks episode, Regina King and Joey Pollari looked pained opposite them, respectively.

And speaking of Regina King, I am extremely dissapointed that once again what could have and should have been a meaty scene was instead crumbs. She can act circles around anything and everything, and it's as if the editors have cut her best material or the directors directed her down. She keeps doing an amazing job with the build-up, but the denouement never comes or at least is never shown.

I think they should have dropped the public school race plot and cast the guy playing that Prinicpal as Mr. LaCroix instead.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Tiger

[isitpink]

I have resigned myself that I will have no answers regarding the rape. The season will likely end with far more questions than answers, and I'll be left trying to fill in the holes with dozens of possible scenarios. Such is the case oftentimes in life.

I look forward to hearing if the network will pick up season three, and if Connor Jessup will be offered a role. I'm hoping big, BIG things come his way very soon. The entire cast and crew, minus very few exceptions, is chock full of some of the best talent I've seen on television. Even the actress who plays Becca might not seem so significantly less seasoned if her scenes weren't so frequently opposite the masterful Timothy Hutton. Not many actors could stack up in her position. I've even stopped hearing my baby she don't mess around because she loves me so and this I know do sho in all of Michael's scenes.

Does anyone know how I can watch the first season? I checked YouTube, but it's too convoluted with crap. Thanks in advance.

[sjohnson]

Odds are against Connor Jessup and Joey Pollari living down their roles, any more than Thomas Dekker managed to really get past his role in Heroes. 

 

A plausible ending is Connor doing a plea deal after they threaten Anne with obstruction of justice, and going to prison for 50 years. And essentially everyone else gets caught on a misdemeanor or walks scott free. And the commentary is provided when the principal at Marshall instead finally faces the situation and resigns. Like everyone else I've been wondering what that's about. I've decided he's the show's anti-Leslie. 

Edited February 28, 2016 by sjohnson

[RedheadZombie]

Odds are against Connor Jessup and Joey Pollari living down their roles, any more than Thomas Dekker managed to really get past his role in Heroes. 

I wouldn't group Connor and Joey together because I think Taylor (along with Anne) are the heart of the show. And I think it's a lot easier to be stereotyped in fantasy sci-fi like Heroes, than in a straight forward drama.

Connor may have a difficult time because he's on the small side with a baby face, but his talent is unique.

[mansonlamps]

I don't think any show has a large enough audience anymore for the stereotyping that used to happen so often to really impact the actor's careers. Plus it would generally happen on a show that went on for years and years, not a single 10 episode run.

[Lemons]

I look forward to hearing if the network will pick up season three, and if Connor Jessup will be offered a role. I'm hoping big, BIG things come his way very soon.

 

 

Assuming he's the one playing Taylor, I must be the only one who doesn't like his style of acting.  To me, he doesn't act naturally.  It's like watching a kid in a drama class being overly dramatic.  Too affected.  I like all the other actors. 

[Chaos Theory]

I've grudgingly accepted that we're never going to get full clarity on what happened at the party, however much we may want it.

The same thing happened for the inciting incident in part 1.  We never got a clear answer on who actually committed the murder that started the story.  The emotional impacts of the act is what was important to the story over everyone involved and how they all moved on....or failed to.  I can see the same thing happening here.  What actually happened may never be known to the audience.  The party is the inciting incident and we may never know what actually happened that night but what happens after and how every one responds and ultimately moves on is what is important.  

[starri]

Doesn't Taylor have at least some memory of having sex with Eric?  We saw him remember it when he was in his drug-haze last week.

[glo-unit]

Odds are against Connor Jessup and Joey Pollari living down their roles, any more than Thomas Dekker managed to really get past his role in Heroes. 

 

As much as I love Thomas Dekker I think Connor and Joey are more talented and better actors than him, also American Crime isn't nearly as mainstream popular as season 1 of Heroes, so I think stereotyping will be a minimal from these roles.  Before this Connor did five seasons of a sci-fi show called Falling Skies. If anything I wonder if Connor wanted a role like Taylor to prevent being stereotyped as as a Sci-Fi and genre show actor.

[Woebegone]

Odds are against Connor Jessup and Joey Pollari living down their roles, any more than Thomas Dekker managed to really get past his role in Heroes.

I don't really remember Dekker's role too well, but it seemed like he just played a sweet and supportive best friend character? It didn't seem particularly iconic at the time and he was only on that show for part of the first season. What I remember more was controversy over him or maybe his agent not wanting the character to be gay and butting heads with the Heroes writing staff over this. I think it might have been a big misunderstanding, but the takeaway a lot of people may have gotten out of it was that he Dekker was difficult and possibly also homophobic.

[sjohnson]

Since Dekker's role as Claire's GBF, he's had to take roles in Kaboom, Cinema Verite, Enter the Dangerous Mind, Plush and Lost in the White City. In movies at least he's still typecast as ambiguous (or the closely related crazy.). I'm not that familiar with his TV work, except Sarah Connor Chronicles where his most vivid moment was streaking with his mom. Not literally gay, to be sure.

 

Connor Jessup did a movie called Blackbird about a kid whose journal got him into trouble as a would-be school shooter. My guess is that that performance got him this role. But he also recently did something called Closet Monster, apparently about a maybe gay young man traumatized by a crime, which may have played a role in getting this part. i'm not seeing much getting away from stereotyping here either. As for Falling Skies? My impression is that his performance wasn't as good as Wyle's, Patton's or Cunningham's, to praise with faint damns. But it was a juvenile character in SF, a format terribly unforgiving of juvenile characters. The stereotyping there is that he would be incompetent. The way I've read the comments is that people were amazed he could act, which to me seems like the stereotype in action.

 

Jessup and Pollari could be in worse shape, they could be Aaron Paul trying to have a career after a Jesse Pinkman.

Edited February 29, 2016 by sjohnson

[SunnyBeBe]

Can someone remind me what this episode revealed about Eric?  I watched it, but had not seen Episode 7 at the time.  Did Eric leave town with his mom or was that his younger brother?  Did the stranger in the mini van survive?  Is Eric okay?

[isitpink]

SunnyBeBe

Eric's mom sold everything she owned and told Eric's little brother that their dad had made Eric the way he is, implying the dad had in some way molested Eric causing him to become gay. She begged him to go away with her, wherever he wanted to go.

There has been no mention of Van Dad at all since Eric stumbled from away from him.

Eric himself appeared to okay, he was next seen sitting in the gym at school with a busted lip. There was no other visible sign of injury.

[represent]

I can't think that the show would let rape go unchecked. There must have been some misunderstanding, especially since there were drugs involved. Because you can't let rape go even in the case of teenagers. You can't end the show with Eric walking free if he is indeed a rapist. So yeah show, I need to know  exactly what in the hell happened to Taylor at that party and what part each of those boys played in it all.

 

I like Taylor and Eric and I want to walk away from the show not believing that Eric is a rapist; especially since poor Taylor said that he felt safe with regard to Eric.

 

But whatever happened I just want the truth. I got that the show was focusing on the bullying, which led to the shooting.  But I think the more important angle was the cover ups by the adults in this story, Leslie being at the top of that list. Had every adult search for the truth and put it all on the table this more than likely would not have ended up in more violence. That to me is the most important angle in this story because these are teenagers, they are NOT adults. Their brains are still developing and they need guidance, they need adults with courage to do the right thing no matter how painful. Like Anne, calling the cops on her very own traumatized son, because the alternative is what? To make him a fugitive? 

Edited February 29, 2016 by represent

[myopinionisall]

I’m curious as to why more attention has not been given to the main character’s Taylor and Eric? When we first see Taylor he’s watching Eric playing basketball, he certainly does not seem upset, as he scrolls through some pictures one of a boy. That Taylor stated the Eric made him feel safe? Would someone say that if the didn't have feelings for Eric!! He only gets interested when he sees the pictures of him from the party. What’s wrong with this seen? Questions that come to mind is how does Taylor know that Eric is gay? It’s not like gay boys, have a stamp on their forehead saying I’m gay! Taylor would have to have had known this for a very long time and gotten together for sexual encounters many times in the past with Eric. And as their relationship advanced they would have experimented more. Now we come to the party Taylor wanted to hook-up, so he email Eric, Eric by his own words said that was looking forward to having sex and it seems like fun to do while everyone was getting stupid and having sex with girls, he was going to have sex with Taylor who wanted it very badly. You got to remember that gays are people too and their sexual needs are the same as everybody else, probable even more so, because of being in the closet! Getting back to Taylor he gave Eric the choice or being on the top or the bottom, he warned Eric that he cums early if he was on the top, which would shorten Eric experience, so that’s why Eric chose the top, he also gave Eric instructions on what he wanted him to. If Eric didn't use a lubricant anal intercourse would have been very rough and uncomfortable for Taylor, and would have surprised him. Even after that you can see Taylor had a close and friendly relationship with Eric. After the encounter between Taylor and Eric we see Eric offering Taylor a beer/drugs, this leads us to the encounter between Taylor and his (girlfriend Evy, ie. Cover) where she confronts Taylor and he explains why he was all messed upped, when she finally saw him, after the encounter with Eric, “because I got down on a boy, and I had to cover it up with alcohol/drugs to look stupid” After Taylor moved to the public HS, he meets another boy, and gets down with him, two or three times/nights. So the question is, is Taylor Gay, without a doubt, does he have a relationship with Eric, without a doubt. Eric did not rape Taylor. Taylor had a gay panic attack.

homosexual panic n.

An acute, severe attack of anxiety based on the person's unconscious conflicts regarding homosexuality.

The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary

Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Edited March 2, 2016 by myopinionisall

[Neurochick]

I can't think that the show would let rape go unchecked. There must have been some misunderstanding, especially since there were drugs involved. Because you can't let rape go even in the case of teenagers. You can't end the show with Eric walking free if he is indeed a rapist. So yeah show, I need to know  exactly what in the hell happened to Taylor at that party and what part each of those boys played in it all.

 

 

I think the creators of this show can do whatever they want.  Unfortunately in real life things go unchecked all the time.  

[myopinionisall]

Neurochick, please read my above post, consensual sex is not rape, once engaged in the act of sex and your partner doesn't say no is not rape. You really need to know about gay sex and what all that it entails.

[Neurochick]

Neurochick, please read my above post, consensual sex is not rape, once engaged in the act of sex and your partner doesn't say no is not rape. You really need to know about gay sex and what all that it entails.

 

I did read your post.  

 

I think the question in the show is, how under the influence of drugs was Taylor?  If he was so under the influence that he was unable to say no, is that rape?  But what if Eric doesn't know how under the influence Taylor is?  I wonder if we, the audience will really know what happened.