The Kardashian Kvetching Korner

[ennui]

I saw a clip floating around from Khloe's new show she claimed she hadn't watched it. She also mentioned in the same clip she felt bad for Sydney and Justin about the show airing. I believe Khloe/Rob would play with Sydney/Justin when they were younger.

Maybe Khloe wants to claim that her cable package doesn't include that channel.  I read a 'net thing that said OJ wanted to watch, but the prison doesn't get FX.  (Who knows if this is true.)

[choclatechip45]

 

Maybe Khloe wants to claim that her cable package doesn't include that channel.  I read a 'net thing that said OJ wanted to watch, but the prison doesn't get FX.  (Who knows if this is true.)

She didn't go that far because she said they were on her DVR. She said it is too real for her because he is "Uncle OJ". She also said she doesn't know how her father would be portrayed. However, she watched all the specials about the OJ case with the real footage.

[Bama]

Hey!  The KKK ( an unfortunate acronym for this thread) should be quiet this week!

 

Not a single extraneous Kardashian to be found!

[BW Manilowe]

Surely most of their fans are in their early/mid-20s, right? I can believe many of them have no idea who Robert Kardashian was. Heck, I was sitting next to three 22ish aged guys the other night and they were talking about this show. They did not seem to know it was based on real events (!).

But I do agree that any kind of anti-Kardashian backlash is unlikely.

If they watch the K's reality show, they should know who Robert Kardashian is/was, even if they know little/nothing about the OJ trial(s). There was an episode of the show based around the anniversary of his death 1 season, so he has been mentioned there. Plus, I would think he comes up for other reasons occasionally, or he at least might, because of the grandchildren from Kourtney & Kim he was never able to get to know (apparently the anniversary of his birth--he would've been, like, 72 had he lived--was in the last couple of days & Kim decided to post a new pic of her infant son, where he was more visible than not, to her social media accounts [which then got passed on by most entertainment news/celebrity media sources, which is how I saw it on my social media sites] to mark the occasion).

[Spartan Girl]

Thank God for that.

I did like the part where Robert Kardashian didn't hold with the defense and public trying to brush Nicole aside as a gold digger.

[mojoween]

I have never seen a reason for the kids to be in this series at all, but last night would have been the perfect time to show Kris, if they were going to, more so than any other time. It would have been interesting to get her reaction to Faye's book.

And I have to give kudos to Selma Blair because she really comes across like a young Kris.

[MargotWendice]

If they watch the K's reality show, they should know who Robert Kardashian is/was, even if they know little/nothing about the OJ trial(s). There was an episode of the show based around the anniversary of his death 1 season, so he has been mentioned there. Plus, I would think he comes up for other reasons occasionally, or he at least might, because of the grandchildren from Kourtney & Kim he was never able to get to know (apparently the anniversary of his birth--he would've been, like, 72 had he lived--was in the last couple of days & Kim decided to post a new pic of her infant son, where he was more visible than not, to her social media accounts [which then got passed on by most entertainment news/celebrity media sources, which is how I saw it on my social media sites] to mark the occasion).

I understand they might reference their dad on the show, but the original contention was that people would know that their father was involved with OJ Simpson and this would be a strong association. I am guessing the average 22 year old would think of Robert Kardashian as the K's Dad, not as the attorney who was friends with OJ and became part of the 'Dream Team'.

[DangerousMinds]

If they watch the K's reality show, they should know who Robert Kardashian is/was, even if they know little/nothing about the OJ trial(s). There was an episode of the show based around the anniversary of his death 1 season, so he has been mentioned there. Plus, I would think he comes up for other reasons occasionally, or he at least might, because of the grandchildren from Kourtney & Kim he was never able to get to know (apparently the anniversary of his birth--he would've been, like, 72 had he lived--was in the last couple of days & Kim decided to post a new pic of her infant son, where he was more visible than not, to her social media accounts [which then got passed on by most entertainment news/celebrity media sources, which is how I saw it on my social media sites] to mark the occasion).

Hopefully this means they don't. 

 

I have the feeling that little Kimmy worshipped and probably had a crush on "Uncle OJ" growing up. Her adult relationships have all been varied versions of his "type." (and I don't mean just his skin color).

Edited February 24, 2016 by DangerousMinds

[BananaRama]

I believe that if there wasn't an OJ Simpson murder trial - we would have never have heard of Robert Kardashian - and if we had never heard of Robert Kardashian then we would have never have heard of Kim Kardashian - and if we had never heard of Kim Kardashian then we would never have had "Keeping Up with the Kardashians". I say that because the name Kardashian is in the title of the show. Before the "Kardashian phenomenon" the only famous person in that family was Bruce Jenner. Who would want to watch a show called, "Keeping Up with the Bruce Jenner Kids"? (Yeah, I know that Kim gained a lot of notoriety because of her sex-tape but would anyone have wanted to watch a sex tape of Ray Jay and some nobody?) Unfortunately, the Kardashians do have a weird gross influence on our society today so I do think it is important to feature them somewhat prominently in this show. However, I do see a Catch 22 - would they/Robert Kardashian be mentioned as much in American Crime Story: The People Vs. OJ Simpson if they weren't so famous now? Nope. Their name gets attention and that draws viewers.

Edited February 24, 2016 by BananaRama

[iwasish]

Sure Kanye, Robert Kardashian was the "genius" behind OJ's "dream team." SMDH.

Kanye probably thinks OJ was innocent. He's always on about how he gets no respect because he married a white woman and society doesn't accept interracial marriages, wasn't that a theme that Cochran tried to float as to why Fuhrman wanted to set up OJ as the murderer? And also it was used as a reason why the black community was quick to dismiss the domestic violence aspect of OJ and Nicole's relationship. 

[iwasish]

Thank God for that.

I did like the part where Robert Kardashian didn't hold with the defense and public trying to brush Nicole aside as a gold digger.

Did he ever express that during the trial, publicly, or did he just figure he was outvoted and kept his mouth shut ? (I haven't seen last nights  episode yet.). I get OJ was his friend and he wanted to be loyal to him, but wasn't she his friend also? Where was that loyalty? He could have expressed his support by being in the courtroom as an observer, he didn't have to renew his law license and participate in the trial as an "insider". Him sitting at the defense table, spelled it out clearly that he "believed OJ innocent" or that he knew something and didn't want to have to testify to what it was he knew.

[rho]

I believe that if there wasn't an OJ Simpson murder trial - we would have never have heard of Robert Kardashian - and if we had never heard of Robert Kardashian then we would have never have heard of Kim Kardashian - and if we had never heard of Kim Kardashian then we would never have had "Keeping Up with the Kardashians". I say that because the name Kardashian is in the title of the show. Before the "Kardashian phenomenon" the only famous person in that family was Bruce Jenner. Who would want to watch a show called, "Keeping Up with the Bruce Jenner Kids"? (Yeah, I know that Kim gained a lot of notoriety because of her sex-tape but would anyone have wanted to watch a sex tape of Ray Jay and some nobody?) Unfortunately, the Kardashians do have a weird gross influence on our society today so I do think it is important to feature them somewhat prominently in this show. However, I do see a Catch 22 - would they/Robert Kardashian be mentioned as much in American Crime Story: The People Vs. OJ Simpson if they weren't so famous now? Nope. Their name gets attention and that draws viewers.

 

I disagree to some extent. If OJ Simpson was never on trial for murder, he probably would have been even more successful and Robert would have continued to ride his coattails. They were business partners after all and I'm confident the K kids would have risen to notoriety eventually. Besides, they're still Bruce Jenner's stepkids and Brody Jenner was on reality TV before anyone had even heard of Kim. I don't think that blame falls squarely on OJ's shoulders. His crimes are much worse.

[Kromm]

Thank God for that.

I did like the part where Robert Kardashian didn't hold with the defense and public trying to brush Nicole aside as a gold digger.

Again, it's another in the pretty much endless string of things we've been shown where there's no way to know if anything like this actually happened. I mean the writers literally just made most of these behind the scenes bits up out of thin air.

That's not to say he wouldn't defend Nicole in that way. Just to say that there's zero proof it ever came up, and certainly zero chance his actual words in that setting would be recorded or noted in detail enough for even a second hand story to have been passed on accurately.

[Dejana]

The Kardashians were rather fame-adjacent in multiple ways outside of the OJ connection, even beyond Caitlyn:

 

• Kris and Kathie Lee Gifford go back 30+ years and apparently KLG was the one who urged Kris to do a reality show with her family. Frank Gifford was Kendall's godfather.
• Robert Kardashian helped found music industry magazine Radio & Records, a one-time rival to Billboard. It's since gone out of business but in 1979, he made $3 million from its sale.
• Kim's high school boyfriend was the son of Tito Jackson, and her 14th birthday party was held at Neverland Ranch.
• Former Kardashian step-siblings Brody and Brandon Jenner starred in the short-lived FOX reality show The Princes of Malibu, with Spencer Pratt (of The Hills) in 2005. Their stepfather at the time was David Foster, who later married (then split) from Yolanda Hadid (Foster), a regular on The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills (where Faye Resnick guests).
• Kim dated Ray J and worked as a stylist for Brandy. Kim was also an assistant for Paris Hilton, and their connection dates to their childhoods. Paris paved the path of reality show/sex tape fame well before Keeping Up with the Kardashians debuted. I think the title of the show was just going for alliteration, and Kim was somewhat known to the E! demographic by late 2007, due to the tape and being photographed next to Paris so much. Kim and Nicole Richie also go way back.
• Kourtney did appear on another E! reality show in 2005, Filthy Rich: Cattle Drive with other celebrity offspring, and the "celebrity" connection does seem to be that she's Robert Kardashian's daughter. OTOH, the show was short-lived. It was on E! though produced in part by Joe Simpson—yes, Jessica's dad—not Ryan Seacrest.
• Speaking of Jessica Simpson, her ex-husband Nick Lachey briefly dated Kim post-split, in 2006. Or, they went out on a couple of dates and were photographed together, anyway: Nick says she used him to get famous. Kim then dated another celebrity Nick, pre-Keeping Up.  

 

Basically, the Kardashians weren't necessarily famous themselves at first, but spent many, many years rubbing elbows with people who were or aspired to be stars someday, much more than the average person. Even if you take away the OJ trial or Robert Kardashian being his lawyer, IMO they'd still have sought the limelight in a big way, eventually. Reality TV was on the rise even before OJ and some of its biggest successes (Survivor, American Idol, Dancing with the Stars) were first big hits in other countries where the trial didn't hold as much sway. Ryan Seacrest says he was looking for a family reality show like The Osbournes, when developing KuwtK. As much as people wish it were the case, there's not just one thing that could be changed about the universe that would somehow erase how famous the Kardashians have become.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Dejana

[Kromm]

Kris and Kathie Lee Gifford go back 30+ years and apparently KLG was the one who urged Kris to do a reality show with her family.

Yet another on the long list of reasons to hate KLG.

[Coffeecup]

I wonder if there was a deliberate creative decision to limit the portrayals of the Simpson and Brown families here. The previews for next week showed a clip of Fred Goldman, but in the context of interacting with Marcia Clark. Jordana Brewster filmed the funeral scene and will probably appear again when Denise testifies at the trial. I believe a girl has been cast to play Sydney, but IDK if this series is ever going to do a lot of scenes with the families at home, grieving or venting about the case. If we see them in the series, maybe it will only be when they're around the figures this show has chosen to elevate.

 

The families weren't consulted and don't seem to like the concept of the series at all. Perhaps their objections would be getting even more attention if they were major "characters" in the show. For every viewer saying that stories of the Goldman/Brown families are more essential to the narrative than that of the Kardashians, another might find it super exploitative or going "too far" to show scenes where the Goldmans are notified, or Sydney and Justin are told their mother is never coming back, or ask the grown-ups, "Where's Daddy?" For better or worse, the remaining Kardashains have chosen to live their lives in the limelight; the same isn't true for Sydney and Justin.

 

The series does seem to portray the Kardashian kids as more youthful and naive than they would have been at the time. Kourtney was 15, Kim, a rising freshman in high school, and Khloe, almost 10. All certainly old enough not to run around, noisily playing at a funeral for a close family friend, or for the takeaway from Dad reading Uncle Juice's suicide note on TV as OJ is accused of double murder to be, "Yay, Daddy's on TV, now let's show some family pride!" If I tilt my head and squint, maybe it's meant to be a sly commentary on how they're now the sort of people who seem to thrive on getting their names out there and see all publicity as good, regardless of the context?

I've been wondering if those segments featuring the Kardashian kids are really supposed to be sarcastic jabs at their present-day fame whore lifestyle.

 

I nearly choked with laughter when I saw the scene of Robert being so prissy, preaching about fame and morality to his kids in the restaurant. If he ever actually said anything like that to them, which I doubt (RK enjoyed money and the perks of fame as much as anybody else), they tossed his advice out the window years ago.

 

I understand what several posters are saying about the RK character being used as a relatable figure for the audience. But I feel very cynical about it. The show is sugar-coating RK way too much. They make RK look like a dumb, gullible, starstruck yes-man OJ groupie...  and that makes him come across a lot like the people in today's entourage who are enabling Kanye West in his crazy egomaniacal behavior.

 

I don't think RK was that credulous or that stupid. I believe that he hid evidence of the crime at O's request, and took that secret to his grave.

[Jel]

I've been wondering if those segments featuring the Kardashian kids are really supposed to be sarcastic jabs at their present-day fame whore lifestyle.

 

I nearly choked with laughter when I saw the scene of Robert being so prissy, preaching about fame and morality to his kids in the restaurant. If he ever actually said anything like that to them, which I doubt (RK enjoyed money and the perks of fame as much as anybody else), they tossed his advice out the window years ago.

 

I understand what several posters are saying about the RK character being used as a relatable figure for the audience. But I feel very cynical about it. The show is sugar-coating RK way too much. They make RK look like a dumb, gullible, starstruck yes-man OJ groupie...  and that makes him come across a lot like the people in today's entourage who are enabling Kanye West in his crazy egomaniacal behavior.

 

I don't think RK was that credulous or that stupid. I believe that he hid evidence of the crime at O's request, and took that secret to his grave.

 

I think you are right, Coffeecup.  I have read a couple of reviews in which the writers talk about the "scathing satire" of the series.  I get their point, but find it to be not totally adequate as either excuse or explanation. Personally, I am a big fan of satire, and if the K kids inclusion is meant only as satire, then it's a pretty cheap form and one that (conveniently) serves two masters.  

 

To be honest, the only real satire I can see is the writers satirizing their own script, with a, "Look! Even we're doing it; we are fame whoring, too".  If that is their intention, then I think they got that spot on.

[Umbelina]

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/robert-kardashian-longtime-friend-oj-simpson-doubts-innocence-33841201

 

Fantastic interview with Kardashian, you will note some of his words here were used in the show last night.  It's really worth watching.

 

I think the show is capturing Kardashian pretty well.  I never saw him as sycophant, I saw him as a friend who got caught up early and couldn't help but be caught up more, pretty much had to be one of his attorney's or testify against him.  I suspect in the beginning he did think OJ was innocent, by the time he didn't think so, he was already in too deep.  I don't really hate him, I think it ate him up.

 

He also pretty much says he know OJ was guilty here, and that he would not get involved if he could do it over again. 

 

At the end he answers and says that OJ would not have done this for him.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Umbelina

[Jel]

Good interview, Umbelina, thanks for linking it.

 

This shocked me:

 

According to RK, Shaprio, during a break in the court proceedings, leaned over to OJ and said,  "We should plea bargain.  You would get 12 years (or whatever it was) and Robert Kardashian would get so much time as an accessory."

[Umbelina]

Someone else linked it in the episode thread, I just copied it over here.

 

I really think that in the beginning, RK could not believe OJ would do something like that, to anyone, let alone to Nicole.  By the time he realized he did, it was just too late.  He had already been pushed into being his attorney.  I bet he lived with great regret and probably pain after this was finally over.  His civil testimony is interesting, of course, OJ's attorney's kept inserting "privilege" as they should, so it was stilted.  Still, the look on his face when the verdict was read said it all.

 

That interview with Barbara Walters said the rest.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Umbelina

[ketose]

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/robert-kardashian-longtime-friend-oj-simpson-doubts-innocence-33841201

 

Fantastic interview with Kardashian, you will note some of his words here were used in the show last night.  It's really worth watching.

 

I think the show is capturing Kardashian pretty well.  I never saw him as sycophant, I saw him as a friend who got caught up early and couldn't help but be caught up more, pretty much had to be one of his attorney's or testify against him.  I suspect in the beginning he did think OJ was innocent, by the time he didn't think so, he was already in too deep.  I don't really hate him, I think it ate him up.

 

He also pretty much says he know OJ was guilty here, and that he would not get involved if he could do it over again. 

 

At the end he answers and says that OJ would not have done this for him.

I think Robert and OJ were probably friends more than Robert K being a hanger on now that I understand more about how rich and successful he was in his own right. If the show is to be believed, OJ was the guy who helped distract Robert from the stress of his divorce. Ultimately, OJ is a narcissist and uses people, but Robert seemed to see OJ as a friend.

 

One thing I noticed in the interview is the brief B-roll of Kardashian's house and the pictures of his kids. Kim looked like Kim by then (1995 or 1996, I think.)

 

I have no idea if he could have got it, but if Shapiro had gotten OJ just 12 years, it might have been the best outcome for OJ. He would have been out for a decade by now, instead of being in jail for another 2 years at least. Then again, he might have still tried to steal his stuff back.

[Isabella15]

Robert Kardashian Gives Deposition at OJ's Civil Trial:  Los Angeles Magazine article, Oct. 1, 1996:

 

http://www.lamag.com/longform/stand-by-your-man/

 

Article written at the time of the civil trial.  It gives background on how the friendship between Kardashian and Simpson developed--it was based on the two families doing things together, not on a personal tie between OJ and Robert.  Very surprising to see that they had not seen each other much at all since Kardashian's divorce (after Kris had an affair).   OJ had not called Kardashian after the murders happened--Robert just drove over there wanting to help.  And as a result of the trial, Kardashian's business suffered and his fiancee left him. 

 

This was not in the article, obviously, but apparently the two did not remain friends after the trial.  OJ called Robert when he was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and Kardashian would not take the call. 

[qtpye]

I don't think we will see much of the Simpson kids because they were very sheltered by the Browns. I don't recall seeing them much in the time covered by the show. I am not sure what they could show that could be corroborated by anyone outside of the family. And frankly, I don't want to see anything based on speculation. Those kids (adults, now) don't deserve to have their lives exploited for mass media.

 

 

I remember one of the most heart breaking things about the case was watching endless loops of video, of beautiful little Sidney, hanging out with her mom.  It was exploitative as heck, but I felt so bad for the kid.

 

Your mother is brutally murdered and your dad is the main suspect...I can not even get my head around that...

Edited March 4, 2016 by qtpye

[Kromm]

[iwasish]

On KUWTK,  Khloe went to undergo hypnosis to try and recall parts of her childhood that she said she didn't remember, one of the things she recalled was that her mother refused to let her and Robert see their father during that time, because she was upset that he was supporting OJ and thought the younger two would have trouble grasping the tragedy.  

 

I'm not a big fan of Robert Sr, but I do think he was by far a better friend to OJ, than OJ was to him (or to any one else, including AC). By the end of the trial, I'm betting he had long since come to realize that OJ cared only for himself.

 

Does anyone know if OJ and AC remained friends? if so, for how long?   

[myname2use4now]

Wow....Kris is a piece of work. OJ in stills at 1:48, 2:26 and brief video clip at 3:19. Oh, and the guy rumored to be Khloe's read dad is at 3:14...lol. What a crew. https://youtu.be/IMmw93q-IvU

[Kromm]

Wow....Kris is a piece of work. OJ in stills at 1:48, 2:26 and brief video clip at 3:19. Oh, and the guy rumored to be Khloe's read dad is at 3:14...lol. What a crew. https://youtu.be/IMmw93q-IvU

In is interesting that THIS young (yes, 30 IS young) you can more see the resemblance to the girls though (actually, at her peak Kris was probably better looking than the ones not named Kendall). 

 

This also shows that (much like her daughters) she doesn't suffer much from a sense of embarrassment/shame in a situation that would totally humiliate many people. 

[smiley13]

Wow....Kris is a piece of work. OJ in stills at 1:48, 2:26 and brief video clip at 3:19. Oh, and the guy rumored to be Khloe's read dad is at 3:14...lol. What a crew. https://youtu.be/IMmw93q-IvU

Why do all of these Youtube videos say restricted when I click on them?

[BW Manilowe]

Why do all of these Youtube videos say restricted when I click on them?

Are you outside of the US? Sometimes the viewing of YouTube videos can be restricted based on the potential viewer's country of origin. Especially when it comes to things like excerpts from, or full episodes of, network (& maybe cable) TV shows posted there.

Edited March 6, 2016 by BW Manilowe

[Umbelina]

That, or some security programs could give you that warning.

 

I had a different reaction to the Kris video.  She seemed so young, and happy.  I think I spotted Nicole a few times as well.  Anyway, it made me think about what the good times were like for all of them, that whole circle of people, just young, rich, being moms, having sex, dabbling here and there with drugs, as many did.  In a weird way, it kind of showed me why Nicole told so few people about OJ beating her.  After her divorce she started telling a few more people.

 

Anyway, it strangely gave me a completely difference sense of what their lives were like before these murders.

[smiley13]

Are you outside of the US? Sometimes the viewing of YouTube videos can be restricted based on the potential viewer's country of origin. Especially when it comes to things like excerpts from, or full episodes of, network (& maybe cable) TV shows posted there.

No, I am in the USA.

[BW Manilowe]

No, I am in the USA.

Well then, it might be some sort of security-type program on your computer/other device, like Umbelina said. Unfortunately, I have no other ideas.

[MargotWendice]

I had a different reaction to the Kris video.  She seemed so young, and happy.  I think I spotted Nicole a few times as well.  Anyway, it made me think about what the good times were like for all of them, that whole circle of people, just young, rich, being moms, having sex, dabbling here and there with drugs, as many did.  In a weird way, it kind of showed me why Nicole told so few people about OJ beating her.  After her divorce she started telling a few more people.

 

Anyway, it strangely gave me a completely difference sense of what their lives were like before these murders.

I completely agree with you.

These people led incredibly privileged lives. I noticed that Robert Kardashian was the 'Producer' so I assume he was behind putting this together for/with Kris (I also wondered if the references to the Bible/bible studies were for his sake although for all I know Kris is religious, too). I imagine it seemed like everyone Nicole knew had idyllic lives that included doting husbands. We know the Kardashian marriage didn't last but my understanding was that Kris initiated that (How do I know these things? Ugh) and Robert was devastated. Meanwhile OJ is dragging Nicole through the bushes in her bra and sweatpants and throwing her jewelry in a neighbor's trash. It's so seedy and Nicole likely felt responsible for the seediness. As difficult as it is for any domestic violence victim to tell people what is happening it would be even harder in the community she lived in.

FWIW I am a clinical psychologist and I work with battered women's services. I often provide cognitive behavioral therapy because these women frequently have cognitive distortions about what happened ("It was all my fault. I should have been a better mother/cook/cleaner/sexual partner/etc"). They often do not tell anyone or minimize/downplay incidents that may have been witnessed by others. I would say the well-off women have a harder time with sharing this because they think eevryone around them is happy and stable and they will be the fly in the Chardonnay.

Edited March 7, 2016 by MargotWendice

[Kromm]

Aside from how "80s" that video is, playing it back it also comes through how "L.A." it is. I mean I don't know if most people recognize it, but Kris' video basically is cribbed footage from Randy Newman's "I Love L.A."

 

Wait, I hate extra clicks, so lets embed it here...

 

 

Now compare the beginning of that to Randy Newman's I Love L.A. Okay, it's not so much a comparison. That footage IS exactly from the middle of Newman's video (go to 00:49--the part after Randy "leaves" old gray New York and "lands" in colorful L.A.)

 

 

It's interesting that was the touchstone for this special early Kardashian "production". I'm trying to think about what this might have represented to Kris. I mean did she NOT get that Newman's song is tongue and cheek (and to some degree actually critical of L.A.?) I guess MOST people don't... they just see it as a tribute (and it gets used in commercials and shows just to mean that). Newman actually does "Love L.A." (he's said so in many interviews), but he's wryly critical of the very things Kris has come to represent (the superich in that city side by side with the poverty--watch Newman's video again if you missed that aspect). And here's Kris' version, which is about swanning around L.A. going to parties with her friends. Hilarious!

 

It's actually become common via YouTube to take songs and remake them, scooping out the actual meaning and lamely repurposing them. There are some hilarious videos out there. But this was Kris doing this 20 years before! She really IS a pioneer, isn't she?

Edited March 7, 2016 by Kromm

[DangerousMinds]

I never thought I'd consider recommending autotune, but . . . .

[Kromm]

I never thought I'd consider recommending autotune, but . . . .

Well it's not like Randy Newman has a great voice either!

[DangerousMinds]

Still, not even comparable. Haha. She does seem to have enjoyed living her life, unlike her dour daughters.

[Kromm]

Still, not even comparable. Haha. She does seem to have enjoyed living her life, unlike her dour daughters.

Well she had chemical assistance for that. The blow was thick on the ground back in the early 80s.

[smiley13]

Still, not even comparable. Haha. She does seem to have enjoyed living her life, unlike her dour daughters.

It is a shame that she did not enjoy her life enough to not cheat on her husband who provided it for her and disrupt her children's childhood.

[MargotWendice]

It is a shame that she did not enjoy her life enough to not cheat on her husband who provided it for her and disrupt her children's childhood.

I think that, for her, the cheating was part of how she enjoyed her life.

[Umbelina]

I don't know.  She's another one who got involved as a teenager with an older man.  I think many people begin to wonder more about sex if they've only been involved with one person sexually.  We weren't in her marriage so it's hard for me to make any real judgements about that.  Robert had a full life before he met her, she, at 17 did not.  Back then things were pretty open and a bit wilder than now, the seventies and eighties were really experimenting times, with sex, with drugs, with all kinds of things.  Self realization and not doing what your 1950's parents did was part of that.  It's pretty hard to explain it without the whole context of that time. 

 

Basically, think Sally Draper all grown up, coming from a closed and pretend world of the perfect "Leave it to Beaver" family full of fake appearances and keeping up with the Joneses, out building her own life, experimenting with different ideas, like being honest, and instead of lying about sexual desires, or wives staying home and being "perfect" little homemakers while dad had affairs, and everyone knew, but ignored?  While women slowly had breakdowns trying to be something they weren't, dependent on their husbands for money, for sex, for protection, and floundered.  Men, just as trapped, in their own ways, role-playing through life, vaguely unhappy, drinking a lot, and having little affairs on the side to relieve that. 

 

The seventies, when the pill was finally a real part of life (and freedom) and other women are actually out there, being lawyers and doctors and plumbers and something other than just secretaries, having a whole life, that didn't depend on a man bringing home a paycheck in order to survive.  Some women were actually surviving on their own, even though pay was not equal (and still isn't!) they finally had real choices to make.  Naturally, those choices first turned to intimating those they saw as having more freedom and choices than they, the men.  So, in some ways, those were some of their first choices, "be like the man." 

 

Now, of course, their were already women rejecting that fifties upbringing, like Roger Sterlings daughter Margaret, later Marigold, who walked into a commune, the whole "hippy" thing, the worst of that was later the horror of Manson, who hobnobbed with the elite of Hollywood, mostly through connections with the music culture side of L.A.  But yes, drugs were not considered horrifying, they were recreational, and didn't seem that bad.  After all, mommy and daddy and all their friends were blotto on booze most nights, so what was the difference?  The whole hippy dream ended in 1969, but the search for another way of living one's life continued. 

 

Just trying to put those times in some context, and I'm barely skimming the surface here, but maybe what I've said helps a bit.  People want to be happy, and they see unhappy parents and try to change things, this happens in most generations.  The seventies brought the first crying Indian commercial, and Earth Day, no more tossing your garbage everywhere, or at least the awareness of littering and recycling (again, think of the picnic the Drapers had when Don bought the Cadillac, where Betty just shook all the garbage into the park, and Don tossed that beer can as far as he could throw it)--that was normal for Kris's upbringing.   Now people were caring about things like that, it wasn't all bad, that searching for new ways of existing.  Movies, and that was the main industry there, were also changing, and showing different ways of being.  Shampoo came out in 1975, another movie showing how things were 3 years after Kris met Robert when she was 17.  She married him in 1978.

 

Anyway, I don't know anything about her marriage to Robert, except that he was 11 years older than she was, and that's a lot when you are 17.  Maybe he couldn't get it up, or was a premature ejaculator or had a tiny penis or only liked the missionary position, while Kris' friends were talking about amazing sex lives, or he was taking her for granted, or she was bored out of her mind having one child after another and wanting MORE from her life.  I'm trying to think of the woman in that video above, not the dragon she's apparently become.  Just an unknown Hollywood wife back then.  For whatever reason, she had an affair (which is bad, but really, and this is another thing to consider, it didn't have the stigma it has now.)  It obviously hurt Robert and he left her quickly, possibly something he later regretted, but again, he was even more a product of the fifties culture, being born in 1944, that just was not done!

 

Anyway, rambled a bit here, sorry.  Just kind of trying to set the times in context, and since I'm re-watching Mad Men, to remove the images of this show from my mind before bedtime, I realized that is a good way to think of these people.  The grown up Sally's and Bobby's who married the Pete's and Don's.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Umbelina

[MargotWendice]

I don't know.  She's another one who got involved as a teenager with an older man.  I think many people begin to wonder more about sex if they've only been involved with one person sexually.  We weren't in her marriage so it's hard for me to make any real judgements about that.  Robert had a full life before he met her, she, at 17 did not.  Back then things were pretty open and a bit wilder than now, the seventies and eighties were really experimenting times, with sex, with drugs, with all kinds of things.  Self realization and not doing what your 1950's parents did was part of that.  It's pretty hard to explain it without the whole context of that time. 

I agree with you, Umbelina, lest it seemed as if I was being 'judgey' above. I think it is always going to be problematic when an inexperienced teenager gets involved with someone much older, who has had time to play the field a bit. And indeed we never know what is going on in someone else's marriage, although I do not think Robert was okay with her cheating. My only beef with Kris is that she went on to publicly talk about her affairs and even put this information in a book (Again, how do I know this stuff? These people really are ubiquitous). That seems incredibly disrespectful to your ex-husband and your children, especially since this opened the door to a lot of speculation that her daughter has a different biological father. I would not want my mother sharing those details with the world.

[Umbelina]

Oh, my post wasn't directed towards you!  I was just musing.

 

Yes, Robert was definitely not "OK" with that, from all reports, it crushed him and he acted immediately and somewhat impulsively in leaving her.  I don't know where I've heard all this stuff either, since I've never watched a Kardashian TV show in my life, and ignore articles about them.  Probably in research about this case I read that Robert was shocked and deeply hurt, and also that had he to do it over again, he may have moderated his response, possibly sought counseling or tried to save his marriage.  By the time he got over his anger though, she was dating Bruce.

 

Did the fame from the OJ trial influence that?  Who knows?

 

The stuff I wrote up there was meant for all of that group of friends, not just Kris, but certainly Nicole as well.  I think Nicole's comments to Kato, that "OJ takes everyone away from me, he charms them or buys them..." were about her family as well.  Typical of an abuser's behavior, but we know much more know than we did then about controlling men.  After all, in the fifties, when they were raised, men DID control the house, in many cases.  Everything revolved around daddy, house must be clean, children well behaved, dinner on the table, because daddy was the one who "had to" work.  Reading housewive "how to" books back then is shocking.  Financially, women were completely dependent on men, especially after children were born.  The options are better now, but still not great.

 

During that time, SOME women learned that working was a much easier way to live after all.  It had it's annoyances, but it also offered a freedom that made it worth it for some.  The unpaid and unappreciated (except in derisive ways) "housewife" roll took it's toll.  The whole "little woman" thing was being questioned, as was going from one man ruling the roost and bringing in the money (dad) to find yourself plopped down in another's (husband.)  That had it's perks, of course, especially if you were wealthy, but it could also be a gilded cage.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Umbelina

[smiley13]

It is obvious to me that she had misguided morals back then, since it appears that one of her children has a different Father.

 

ETA:  And the fact that she is still buddies with Faye Resnick after her tell all books about their "best friend" Nicole makes me question her judgement.

Edited March 7, 2016 by smiley13

[funky-rat]



It is obvious to me that she had misguided morals back then, since it appears that one of her children has a different Father.

 

Kris claims that the tall one (the one that people think has a different father -  I can't recall which K-kid she is right now) looks just like Robert's mother, but has never shared a photo to prove it.  I wish these people would just go away.

[Princess Sparkle]

Not that this matters a ton BUT when you see pictures of the Kardashian kids when they were children, I think Khloe (the one who's always rumored to have a different father) looks just like Rob Jr, and his paternity is never questioned. Does she look like Kourtney and Kim? No, but she does resemble her younger sibling quite strongly.

I always kind of felt bad for Khloe; first, she hears rumors that her dad isn't her biological dad (I think she's mentioned hearing that a lot when she was growing up), and then the pervasive rumor is that your actual father is OJ? I also seem to recall that Kris wanted Khloe to get a nose job when she was nine, so out of all the Kardashian kids, Khloe is the one I always figured had the roughest (comparatively) childhood.

[jaync]

On the Dateline special, there was some footage of Robert shot from behind, and man, he had a big ol' butt! Maybe Kim did get hers honestly.

[ByTor]

Not that this matters a ton BUT when you see pictures of the Kardashian kids when they were children, I think Khloe (the one who's always rumored to have a different father) looks just like Rob Jr, and his paternity is never questioned. Does she look like Kourtney and Kim? No, but she does resemble her younger sibling quite strongly.

I also think before facial work, Khloe and Kiley looked alike. Khloe does look a lot like the guy rumored to be her father, but it's possible their looks came from Kris' side of the family. Edited March 15, 2016 by ByTor

[qtpye]

Does Khloe look anything like the adult Sidney Simpson?

[Brooklynista]

Does Khloe look anything like the adult Sidney Simpson?

I'm going to say that Kris would have spent a good good amount  money to prevent any of her girls looking like the adult Sydney Simpson. No shade. Just saying...