Sleepy Hollow in the Media

[Fable]

Wow, none of this makes sense.  Everyone from past seasons is gone except Mison, unless they plan on keeping Lyndie Greenwood, which would make little sense since they are moving away from Sleepy Hollow to DC and seemingly trying to erase all traces of Abbie.  This show isn't even following the premise it was built on.  I understand that shows might try to switch things up a bit to see what works, but they aren't even telling the same story that they started out with.  It would make more sense to scratch Sleepy Hollow and start over with a completely different show.  I do believe I'll pass.  

[jenrising]

My favorite thing in this io9 article about this latest mess is this comment:

Quote

rename the show to Sleepy, Hollow.

[kassygreene]

I don't see how Jenny, as established, can operate in DC, as it really exists.  How can she do her stuff without being armed  And unless the laws have substanially changed, she can't carry a weapon inside the District, indoors or out.

They are creating a brand new show, keeping one actor, possibly the actor's character & background, and probably otherwise not making any effort at continuity.  I'm starting to feel sorry for Tom Mison.

[Trini]

On 7/8/2016 at 9:52 PM, kassygreene said:

... They are creating a brand new show, keeping one actor, possibly the actor's character & background, and probably otherwise not making any effort at continuity.  I'm starting to feel sorry for Tom Mison.

I think it was also in the io9 comments that the show has become its own spin-off. Seems accurate.

[jhlipton]

On July 8, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Free said:

Speaking of Castle, even ABC decided to end it before it continually derailed like this show is doing.

Not quite.  The whole "LokSat" story was dumb and poorly executed (as it should have been).  They filmed and showed Beckett being murdered, then back-tracked by a silly "we don't mean it" scene.

Most people think that at least the last season was BAD!

[Free]

37 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

Not quite.  The whole "LokSat" story was dumb and poorly executed (as it should have been).  They filmed and showed Beckett being murdered, then back-tracked by a silly "we don't mean it" scene.

Most people think that at least the last season was BAD!

They cancelled the show after firing Stana, it was on track of being an even bigger disaster had they not shelved it.

[jhlipton]

2 minutes ago, Free said:

They cancelled the show after firing Stana, it was on track of being an even bigger disaster had they not shelved it.

True, it would probably been worse; I was just saying that the derailment came earlier than the end of the season.

[Free]

3 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

True, it would probably been worse; I was just saying that the derailment came earlier than the end of the season.

Exactly, sadly, this show chose to continue sinking further.

[vanarnd1]

I think it some ways it makes sense to do a pretty much complete reboot. With the new story line about the secret society it required a change of scenery and it wouldn't make sense to have the Sleepy Hollow agents still around working with Crane in that case.

I think changing things up could have given this show a second wind, but without Abbie it just isn't going to have that spark. Maybe they will get some new viewers but with all of the budgets cuts it seems likely they are just hanging on for another season as a placeholder.

[Free]

3 hours ago, vanarnd1 said:

I think it some ways it makes sense to do a pretty much complete reboot. With the new story line about the secret society it required a change of scenery and it wouldn't make sense to have the Sleepy Hollow agents still around working with Crane in that case.

I think changing things up could have given this show a second wind, but without Abbie it just isn't going to have that spark. Maybe they will get some new viewers but with all of the budgets cuts it seems likely they are just hanging on for another season as a placeholder.

It's really difficult for shows, especially serialized dramas to gain new viewers, that's why more often than not, most shows decline over time, especially this show based on the last 2 seasons and that's before losing half of their leads.

[Badsamaritan]

FOX already has a supernatural show with a tall, dark British lead whose partner is a single mother. It's called Lucifer. And they canceled a show with male/female partners, one a Believer and one a skeptic, set in DC. It's called X-Files. 

WTF are these people doing?

[Free]

4 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

FOX already has a supernatural show with a tall, dark British lead whose partner is a single mother. It's called Lucifer. And they canceled a show with male/female partners, one a Believer and one a skeptic, set in DC. It's called X-Files. 

WTF are these people doing?

Desperately rehashing ideas from other shows in a vain attempt to completely change the show for no good reason.

[Watermelon]

I'm actually getting more confused as we go along.  Is annie the new abbie?  Did Abbie know she had a cousin who was in the secret service? Did they meet up for happy hours while she was at Quantico?

[DearEvette]

On 7/8/2016 at 9:14 PM, jenrising said:

My favorite thing in this io9 article about this latest mess is this comment:

I love that the commenters on i09 are totally dragging this show.  i think there is a sizeable contingent of people who believe that the disaffected Sleepy Hollow ex-fans are just angry POC who are mad that they killed off a black female.  But if I am not mistaken, i would gather that the i09 commentariat skews white male.  Or at least it is definitely not a bunch of angry POC crying racism or Abbie Mills superfans.  No these are the fans the show seems like it wants to attract post-Abbie. 

The latest news seems to even be alienating people who hadn't completely written it off after the finale.  I've seen quite a few comments on twitter where people were like "well, I was going to give Season 4 a chance but this just sounds awful."

[jhlipton]

20 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

FOX already has a supernatural show with a tall, dark British lead whose partner is a single mother. It's called Lucifer. And they canceled a show with male/female partners, one a Believer and one a skeptic, set in DC. It's called X-Files. 

WTF are these people doing?

Lucifer is a great show!  I even love Yrixie, mostly because of how "Lucy" treats her but also because she's not overused.

[Free]

On 7/12/2016 at 10:07 AM, DearEvette said:

I love that the commenters on i09 are totally dragging this show.  i think there is a sizeable contingent of people who believe that the disaffected Sleepy Hollow ex-fans are just angry POC who are mad that they killed off a black female.  But if I am not mistaken, i would gather that the i09 commentariat skews white male.  Or at least it is definitely not a bunch of angry POC crying racism or Abbie Mills superfans.  No these are the fans the show seems like it wants to attract post-Abbie. 

The latest news seems to even be alienating people who hadn't completely written it off after the finale.  I've seen quite a few comments on twitter where people were like "well, I was going to give Season 4 a chance but this just sounds awful."

It's just baffling especially for a show already declining hard to continue to do this.

[catrice2]

So, if it is in D.C. what is going to keep the tie to Sleepy Hollow? Are they going to travel back and forth?  I had gotten use to the other FBI agent (can't think of her name), but I am glad they are getting rid of the male agent.  Is Papa Mills coming back?

[jhlipton]

11 hours ago, catrice2 said:

 Is Papa Mills coming back?

In a bold and gutsy (and totally non-racist) move, they're replacing Papa Mills with a pepper mill!

[catrox14]

[netlyon2]

Oh, look, it's Abbie's distant cousin!  **headdesk**

ETA

Okay, it occurs to me that they might try to give him a partner who is not the other Witness.  I'm not sure if that's better or worse.  You know what, both scenarios suck because this whole deal sucks.  Off to watch Queen Sugar and Luke Cage trailers again!

Edited July 23, 2016 by netlyon2

[thuganomics85]

Dammit!  I just heard the news, and it sucks, since I really like Janina Gavanker, but I know I'm likely not going to like the character, because she is more or less replacing Abbie, and no one can replace Abbie.  And even then, the description of the character really isn't endearing me to her either.  Seen it too many times; hell, it's practically Chloe from Lucifer (although, I actually do like Chloe.)

At this point, I'm just curious to see if the ratings get low enough that they end up dumping it on Saturday or just burn it off online.  How low can it go, I wonder...

[Amethyst]

What the freaking hell?  I just heard about Janina getting cast, but I had no idea about all this other f*ckery.  I guess Hiddleswift was the only media headliner for the past few weeks.  So let me get this straight:

1.  The show Sleepy Hollow will no longer take place in Sleepy Hollow.  Alright then.  

2.  Abbie's out, (sadly, we knew that already) but it's NBD because Anna is supposedly her cousin/descendant/relative from DC, and look!  She's got an adorable-yet-precocious kid to boot!  C'mon now.  Just the new casting description makes me cringe.  This is shaping up to be another bland procedural with minor supernatural leanings.  

3.  That s3 casting didn't mean jack squat.  The showrunners ditched all the newbies.  TBH, I didn't like any of them except Joe, but wasn't last season supposed to be a soft reboot already?  So now they're rebooting the reboot?

4.  IA that Jenny really has no place here anymore.  With Abbie gone, the Mills' sister's dynamic is gone, too.  Plus, she lost Joe in addition to losing Abbie.  Wouldn't be surprised if Jenny goes off the grid again, especially with Ichabod working in the FBI now or whatever.  I don't think Papa Fancy Mills is enough to keep her around.

Man, what a mess.  Never heard of a show that's been retooled so much since the first season.  That behind-the-scenes book just gets bigger and bigger.  As for Janina, I don't feel one way or another about her.  I remember her from True Blood and The L Word, but both shows were already in the toilet by her arrival.  She can't be any worse than Sophie, who I thought was being groomed to be the nuAbbie.  

Regardless, neither of them are Nicole.  I may watch the first ep out of morbid curiosity to see how they mention Abbie, but otherwise, I'm just gonna stick to my s1 DVDs and pretend the show ended after that.  Or read fanfic.  Anything else is better than this.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

That s3 casting didn't mean jack squat.  The showrunners ditched all the newbies.  TBH, I didn't like any of them except Joe, but wasn't last season supposed to be a soft reboot already?  So now they're rebooting the reboot?

Seriously.  I thought at least Sophie could stay.  What a mess.

[SnarkyTart]

I'm having trouble keeping track of the revolving door of actors who are, then aren't, then are returning.  When they renewed SH for season 4, they said Lyndie Greenwood, Lance Gross and Jessica Camacho were all coming back.  Later they said Lance and Jessica were not coming back.  I don't think I've read anything about the ultimate fate of Lyndie Greenwood, but I may have missed it amidst all the musical chairs.   I agree, there would seem to be no place for Jenny in this messed up D.C. scenario.  Imma guess she isn't coming back, but on the heels of the Abbie controversy and (reasonable) allegations of killing off POC, they just haven't figured out how to write Jenny out yet?

[jhlipton]

3 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

[T]hey just haven't figured out how to write Jenny out yet?

They need to make her death (and it must be a death -- for plot reasons only, not racism!!!) advance Crane's journey.  That's all these wimmins, especially black wimmins is good for, amirite?

[LeeLeePanda]

On July 22, 2016 at 8:09 PM, catrox14 said:

I had an irrational dislike of her character on True Blood, so I'm really not impressed with the casting news. I was considering checking out the first episode of the season, but this just killed any interest I had in watching. 

[kieyra]

At this point I literally only interact with this show via this media thread. :)

Can you imagine what a juggernaut this show could have become if they had ever remotely realized what they had? It could have had Supernatural-style legs. 

And they could have ridden the wave of American Revolution nostalgia fostered by Hamilton.

(Confession: I think Lucifer is absolutely godawful, and I can't believe Neil Gaiman's name is on it, but I can see how there would be some audience crossover here. While I was never going to watch S4 anyway, "cute kid" recurring character lands on the growing list of reasons.)

[Watermelon]

I'm predisposed to liking Janina only because she's from my mom's hometown.  It's interesting she's considered most well known from True Blood, when I remember her as a cop on The Mysteries of Laura.  

[kieyra]

I know her from True Blood, but I think she also did a turn on S1 of Arrow. 

[catrice2]

Lord, this went from being must see tv for me after season one...but adding a child?!!   I never liked Joe and Jenny was O.K.  Oddly I liked Jenny more with Icabod than with Abbie.  I wonder if they will retain the small "jokes" about Icabod adapting to modern life.  

I can only imagine what her "tie" to Icabod will be. Hopefully his wife did not have twins and she is his long lost daughter! 

[kieyra]

3 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Lord, this went from being must see tv for me after season one...but adding a child?!!   I never liked Joe and Jenny was O.K.  Oddly I liked Jenny more with Icabod than with Abbie.  I wonder if they will retain the small "jokes" about Icabod adapting to modern life.  

I can only imagine what her "tie" to Icabod will be. Hopefully his wife did not have twins and she is his long lost daughter! 

Don't give them any ideas. 

[LeeLeePanda]

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/star-trek-discovery-cast-new-ship-captain-may-be-black-woman-bryan-fuller-hints-547540

Most people are speculating that they might try to get Angela Basset or Zoe Salanda. A few of my fellow black scifi nerds are caping for Nicole. Can you imagine her as the ship captain? It would be amazing! 

[jhlipton]

I'd love to see Nicole or someone we've not heard of.  Angela Bassett would kill as a captain.

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, LeeLeePanda said:

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/star-trek-discovery-cast-new-ship-captain-may-be-black-woman-bryan-fuller-hints-547540

Most people are speculating that they might try to get Angela Basset or Zoe Salanda. A few of my fellow black scifi nerds are caping for Nicole. Can you imagine her as the ship captain? It would be amazing! 

Can't be Zoe Saldana she already plays Uhura in the movies. Plus, given her unbelievably successful movie career, I don't see her taking a TV gig.

[kieyra]

5 hours ago, LeeLeePanda said:

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/star-trek-discovery-cast-new-ship-captain-may-be-black-woman-bryan-fuller-hints-547540

Most people are speculating that they might try to get Angela Basset or Zoe Salanda. A few of my fellow black scifi nerds are caping for Nicole. Can you imagine her as the ship captain? It would be amazing! 

Would Nicole be too young though? I mean, to play a captain. 

[jhlipton]

I don't think she'd be the youngest captain in Federation history.

[CocoaGoddess]

I feel awful for Tom Mison. 

[orza]

I don't think there's any reason to feel bad for Tom. Fox must have some convincing market research indicating that Tom is popular enough to carry a show on his own for them to go forward with season 4. He is the sole star of the show now and that justifies a big pay hike which he no doubt negotiated for and got. If the business priority of season 4 is not necessarily to save the current show but to keep Tom in the public eye this season and set him up to star in a show that will fill the void when Bones is gone, and attract those viewers, then this could work out very well for him. In any event, he is earning a lot more at Fox than he could back home in British TV and film.

[kieyra]

46 minutes ago, orza said:

I don't think there's any reason to feel bad for Tom. Fox must have some convincing market research indicating that Tom is popular enough to carry a show on his own for them to go forward with season 4. He is the sole star of the show now and that justifies a big pay hike which he no doubt negotiated for and got. If the business priority of season 4 is not necessarily to save the current show but to keep Tom in the public eye this season and set him up to star in a show that will fill the void when Bones is gone, and attract those viewers, then this could work out very well for him. In any event, he is earning a lot more at Fox than he could back home in British TV and film.

But that implies his only two options are SH or 'going back home'.

I would love to actually watch him in something else. It won't be this show.

[orza]

Having a job with a contract is better than being unemployed. His other options would to be to audition for guest starring roles in TV or feature film roles while waiting for next year's pilot season, which in practical terms might mean relocating to Los Angeles or breaking into American theater. There's lots of competition so it is not guaranteed that a new job would come his way when he needs it. Who knows, maybe he would rather be unemployed in Los Angeles than in London.

[Briony]

Eh I still feel for Tom even though I probably shouldn't because it is very true that of all the people standing to benefit from this mess - he's probably second only to the TPTB. Even if SH gets canceled I'm sure he will bounce back. I'm sure he will get offered plenty of roles.

Still, after all the interviews I've seen - I think its pretty clear he hates his job. And I think with Nicole being let out of her contract, he lost the last bit of leverage he had in negotiating for less screen time, long lunches, etc. Ratings like SH's don't mean more money for its leads, only with successful shows do leads get that kind of negotiating power. I would bet money the only reason Tom is sticking around is because FOX won't let him go. I mean there are plenty of actors that are happy to meet the mark and basically let the characters just be an extension of themselves with little work or thought being brought to the table. Tom doesn't seem like one of those guys.

And Tom has money. Like a modest amount of money but enough that he could quit if wanted and live a decent lifestyle. But working in Britain probably isn't much of an option anymore. Brexit will basically gut the entertainment sector there. :(

[cynic]

Season 4 villain

[jhlipton]

And the new Wit-less will be played by yet another Indian-American (Janina Gavankar).  They get so many of Women of [Light] Color roles; African-American women, not so much.  Diversity! 

Yuck!

[Free]

On 7/23/2016 at 0:24 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Dammit!  I just heard the news, and it sucks, since I really like Janina Gavanker, but I know I'm likely not going to like the character, because she is more or less replacing Abbie, and no one can replace Abbie.  And even then, the description of the character really isn't endearing me to her either.  Seen it too many times; hell, it's practically Chloe from Lucifer (although, I actually do like Chloe.)

At this point, I'm just curious to see if the ratings get low enough that they end up dumping it on Saturday or just burn it off online.  How low can it go, I wonder...

The ratings were already pretty low when it was dumped on Fridays.

[cynic]

More casting news

Oona Yaffee will play "wise beyond her years" ten-year old, Molly.

Jerry MacKinnon will play Jake Wells, a socially isolated research analyst obsessed with unexplained phenomena and fringe theories.

And Rachel Melvin will play Alex Norwood, a brilliant female prodigy who will bring the science! to our hero's team while being beautiful in a non-intimidating, girl next door kind of way. 

Oh wait, no, that's Simmons who sciences stuff on Agents of Shield.

Oops, still wrong, that's Caitlin who sciences stuff on The Flash.

This is her!

[kassygreene]

Ah, there is nothing like having the executive non-creatives swoop in to fix a show.  By the numbers.

I don't mind so much that all the brainy chicks are the sort who can hide the pretty with ugly glasses and a sloppy up-do.  That is the casting pool in the U.S.  I mind that every damn one of them is a minimum of fifteen years too young.

If this show had ended with season one, everyone could have walked away with a very decent credit from a show that was too good to last on American TV.

[Panopticon]

I love Rachel Melvin. She's a good actress, watchable, hard working...

But I will not watch this racist sexist mess for her or anyone else. Wish she'd turned up in season 1. 

[CalamityBoPeep]

Way to go generic, Sleepy Hollow. These casting announcements are giving me Wigstand and Betsy Ross level heebie-jeebies. It's gonna be just another crime procedural with a "will they/won't they" B-plot, and an inevitable "child in danger" story.

Nope. Still not gonna give it a shot.

[LeeLeePanda]

Season 1 of Sleepy Hollow featured 5 black actors in starring or reoccurring roles. Season 4 will have one, maybe 2. And they wonder why the ratings dropped. Smh. 

[jhlipton]

From the article posted by cynic:
 

Quote

[David Duchovney] will play [Fox Mulder], an endearingly eager but slightly obsessive research analyst who works in a forgotten federal archive cataloguing reports of supernatural activity. Even though he’s been relegated to the fringes, Jake enjoys what he does since he’s had a lifelong fascination with unexplained phenomena and weird fringe theories.

Gee, how original!!!!!

Edited August 6, 2016 by jhlipton