Sleepy Hollow in the Media

[Enero]

Not surprised about the renewal. They took too long to announce one way or the other. If the show was getting cancelled they'd have announced it ages ago. 

So the article at TVLine says Jessica Camacho is back, I'm calling it now, her and Crane will somehow end up partners. Or they'll ping pong between her and Jenny partnering up with him.   They chemistry tested them in One Life (and have chemistry tested Jenny with Crane on numerous occasions) and some actually liked their chemistry so... I don't know that S4 will be the last. I would not at all be shocked if this show manages to hang on for five seasons. It's owned by FOX so they get all the revenue, whatever that may be, that is made off the show. And if they continue to film in Georgia, the tax breaks can be in the millions depending on their budget. 

All that said, I won't be watching.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Enero

[catrox14]

I hate that I want this to fail. But I will miss Tom Mison but I feel so burned about Abbie. You know if they would have given us some Ichabbie like actual Ichabbie, and not made this stupid Abbie soul of a witness shit, I think I could ALMOST forgive them. Yikes I'm still really angry

[Enero]

21 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I hate that I want this to fail. But I will miss Tom Mison but I feel so burned about Abbie. You know if they would have given us some Ichabbie like actual Ichabbie, and not made this stupid Abbie soul of a witness shit, I think I could ALMOST forgive them. Yikes I'm still really angry

Well I think that's what the network is counting on is people getting over it and tuning back in. TPTB are slick. They nixed killing off Abbie mid season because they knew viewers would run screaming into the night never to return. But by waiting to do it in the season finale they give viewers the opportunity to go through the stages of grief, denial, anger, bargaining etc. throughout the summer before finally accepting what's happened in time enough for the show's return in the fall, and as a result tuning in to see what's next, despite Abbie/NB no longer being in the show. 

[MadyGirl1987]

Ugh! I stopped watching this train wreck of a show before the end of this season. And I almost never give up shows like that. It takes a lot for me to give up and stop watching something. That said; this trainwreck gets renewed and yet good shows like Agent Carter and The Muppets are cancelled? I know they were on a different network but seriously... Seeing that freaking Sleepy Hollow was renewed was just salt in the wound...

[Sparkling Beth]

I will forever be angry about how they handled this, but I'm watching season 4 for Tom, who is still a wonderful actor and handsome fellow and not at fault for what the producers or writers did to Abbie.  I don't expect the show to last long, but I'll still tune in and see what they do with it.  Since I'm not a Nielsen family, I won't help the ratings any, so the Powers That Be won't feel any reward coming from my viewership.

[Yolapukka]

Quote

To be honest, without Abbie, Crane is just a caricature.

I think they wanted that. He's an easily explained hook, he doesn't need dimension. It's just a happy accident that Tom Mison has been able to fill him out despite dealing with the increasingly empty writing. Of course, a lot of what depth Ichabod had came from the dynamic with Abbie. Now it'll just be an occasional nod to man-pain for a character written to be cartoonish and hollow. We can look forward to plenty of wacky antics. It will be Heee-larious. Remember when he tried to charm a child(badly) and walloped his head on the ceiling of a playhouse? More of that sort of thing. Whee.

 

I really have no fucks to give over the renewal. I'm a bad sport over how bungled Abbie's exit was, never mind her leaving at all, but the fact it was so badly, insultingly done leaves me with no trust for those responsible. Really, If it's as formulaic and disconnected from the original qualities of the show as I suspect it will be, I don't know why I'd make a point of watching.  I'm not interested in being bored and I certainly can't imagine myself hate-watching.

Edited May 14, 2016 by yuggapukka

[Pete Martell]

I've never really had much interest in Ichabod, who is a dull trope. For me Abbie was the main draw. Not to denigrate Tom Mison or his fans. Anyway, I'm not surprised it was renewed, because there's a reason I avoid FOX shows 98% of the time. I won't be watching, even if it runs 14 seasons. Good luck to the cast and at least they get something out of this trashpit.

[TimetoShine]

I for one am glad this show wasn't cancelled. There are plenty of people who depend on the paycheck it provides. 

[C76]

22 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Leigh Dana Jackson gave approval to Eric Heisserer's "Not our fault -- the stars and execs MADE us do it!" piece of bull-shit.

Of course, no one is buying it, because it stinks.

Actually, this doesn't bother me very much. It coincides with something I was trying to get at in another thread. (Some hated me for saying it, so feel free to skip it.) 

I'll set aside the fact that NB reportedly wanted to leave. In the TV industry, writers don't have final authority over everything that happens to their characters. Network people do. And outside of this show, I have heard of at least one instance where a network person has called for a character to be killed.

Meanwhile, I want to see what the trades and entertainment mags have to say next. As far as I'm concerned, this show won't run smoothly without Abbie, period.

Edited May 14, 2016 by C76

[bobbysgurl]

On May 12, 2016 at 0:29 PM, slayer2 said:

Has anyone posted about the new Nikki Beharie movie on Canadian Netflix yet? Last Day Without You or something like that. Anyway in it she gets to be the sexy, amazing woman we know her to be AND sing! Didn't realize she was so tiny and had that perfect hourglass figure going on since Sleepy Hollow always hid her charms with frumpy, bland clothing.

 

Not a new movie.  She was very good in it.  I was totally surprised by how tiny she really is.  That is the reason I didn't like the scene of NB and TM holding hands going into purgatory.  Her hand is sooo tiny, and Tom's is sooo big.  It looked like an adult holding a child's hand.

[Julia]

You know, I don't remember an Unless They Make Me, Because I Have No Power and Am Just Following Orders To Get Paid exception when Mr. Jackson was mansplaining that the mere suggestion Abbie could be treated with disrespect on his watch was an insult to him as a writer of color. 

Edited May 15, 2016 by Julia

[bobbysgurl]

On May 13, 2016 at 2:59 PM, benteen said:

Apparently the life of the Witness is to guide Ichabod Crane and then just randomly die, their mission apparently done.

I think both Ichabod and Abbie are great characters but I wouldn't want to see an Ichabod-only show or an Abbie-only show.  The strength of the show was always the two of them together, which is something clearly the various producers of the show and Fox never believed.

 

Exactly.

[msani19]

Nope. Won't be watching. Ever. Show was ruined in season 2. This will be their last season they don't seem to know what the hell they are doing anyway. I've loved Nicole since seeing her in the movie Shame, tuned in to this because of her (irony) and I'm happy to have been introduced to Tom Mison. Obviously, the two of them together was masterful.

[SnarkyTart]

Quote

FOX says the Season 4 cast will be led by Tom Mison, Lyndie Greenwood, Lance Gross and Jessica Camacho. As for the story, the network says it will focus on “the search for truth about the lives of Witnesses.”

Oh good.  Jenny can replace Abbie as Daniel’s new love interest and Sophie can replace Abbie as Crane’s new partner/soulmate.  We’ll learn the truth about the lives of Witnesses…that they are interchangeable and easily replaced.  Fox will learn the truth about their audience too:  like Abigail Mills, they can vanish in the blink of an eye.

[jhlipton]

7 hours ago, C76 said:

[W]riters don't have final authority over everything that happens to their characters. Network people do.

 

7 hours ago, Julia said:

You know, I don't remember an Unless They Make Me, Because I Have No Power and Am Just Following Orders To Get Paid exception when Mr. Jackson was mansplaining that the mere suggestion Abbie could be treated with disrespect on his watch was an insult to him as a writer of color. 

 

They want to have their cake and eat it, too. They accept praise for great episodes, like Tempus Fugit.  If the fans say an episode is crap, the writers (and showrunners) will tell them to shut up, they don't know what they're talking about.  When critics and mainstream writers tell them an episode is crap, all of the sudden, "it's not us; it's the suits".  Dudes (and it's almost always dudes), you put your name on the credits -- own what you wrote.

They are cowards and liars.

[CalamityBoPeep]

14 hours ago, C76 said:

Actually, this doesn't bother me very much. It coincides with something I was trying to get at in another thread. (Some hated me for saying it, so feel free to skip it.) 

I'll set aside the fact that NB reportedly wanted to leave. In the TV industry, writers don't have final authority over everything that happens to their characters. Network people do. And outside of this show, I have heard of at least one instance where a network person has called for a character to be killed.

Meanwhile, I want to see what the trades and entertainment mags have to say next. As far as I'm concerned, this show won't run smoothly without Abbie, period.

 

I read the 22 post rant he's referring to, and all I could think at the end (where he finishes up asking if we'd like to be tv writers) was: "Nope. I'd write my own damned book and do the best job I could do, taking the chance on myself." They're in it to get a consistent paycheck as a writer, shuffling some of the responsibility for the end product to others. They picked the job.

So, I have very little sympathy. They knew the layout of the battlefield before they started. They knew everything they write is actually written by committee. They knew that if they didn't deliver good material, actors... being the sometimes fickle people that they are... would get dissatisfied. They knew that everything depended on the actors working together and being present on the set. They knew the producers and suits have a big say in how it goes.

I get so tired of writers delivering a crappy product and blaming the suits for it. Yes, yes, writers... it is hard to produce under pressure. But if you find yourself not to be the kind of person who can write good material under pressure, with a good imagination for coming up with great stories at a moment's notice, maybe pick another freaking job! Make more room for those who can do it! Like the Ron Moores of the world. If you don't write crap, your actors wouldn't be as dissatisfied, and your audience wouldn't be picking on you.

If the suits demand an actor be written off, or a character killed... that doesn't oblige you to write it in a way that sucks and negates the entirety of your show's premise. If a show is on the downhill slope because of internal discord (*cough* Castle *cough*) maybe the writers ought to read the tea leaves, like anyone else in the employed world, and seek work elsewhere before the clusterf*ck is in full swing, rather than bitching about how hard the actors are to work with. It's not like they have a gun to their heads and have to stay on a sinking ship. Contracts, sure. But I'll bet there is a stipulation in their contract that allows them to quit, or get fired. I doubt they'd sign their lives into forced servitude.

So. Be adults, writers. Just like the rest of the working stiffs in the world. You signed up for the job, because you wanted to work in television, and be vicariously famous. If you can't do it, pick another job. 

[possibilities]

Regardless of who is at fault, I'm not watching anymore, and I wish the show the worst ratings in the history of television and financial losses that echo so loudly through the industry that finally some actual change happens.

[cynic]

Quote

FOX says the Season 4 cast will be led by Tom Mison, Lyndie Greenwood, Lance Gross and Jessica Camacho. As for the story, the network says it will focus on “the search for truth about the lives of Witnesses.”

I might have actually been curious about season 4 if they had jettisoned everyone and rebooted the show with Mison working with a new team in the secret organization. This, though, just makes me think it's going to be just like season 3 sans the Abbie bits. No thanks. Regardless of how I feel about Abbie dying, this doesn't tempt me to watch the show because I found season three to be mostly boring as hell. And now there's not even going to be the intermittent goodness of Crane\Abbie interactions to keep me hanging on. 

[C76]

9 hours ago, jhlipton said:

 

 

They want to have their cake and eat it, too. They accept praise for great episodes, like Tempus Fugit.  If the fans say an episode is crap, the writers (and showrunners) will tell them to shut up, they don't know what they're talking about.  When critics and mainstream writers tell them an episode is crap, all of the sudden, "it's not us; it's the suits".  Dudes (and it's almost always dudes), you put your name on the credits -- own what you wrote.

They are cowards and liars.

This is a case of an episode being awful, yes. But it's not merely awful because of the way it was written. It is awful because Abbie DIED. My point was that the decision to kill a character isn't something that a show's writers can get away with on their own. That's a very serious matter in terms of a show's structure. For something like that to occur, someone higher-up has to either approve it--if a writer was out of it enough to suggest it--or order it to happen.

For all we know LDJ could be spouting BS, but what he said isn't outside of the realm of possibility.

[C76]

3 hours ago, CalamityBoPeep said:

 

I read the 22 post rant he's referring to, and all I could think at the end (where he finishes up asking if we'd like to be tv writers) was: "Nope. I'd write my own damned book and do the best job I could do, taking the chance on myself." They're in it to get a consistent paycheck as a writer, shuffling some of the responsibility for the end product to others. They picked the job.

So, I have very little sympathy. They knew the layout of the battlefield before they started. They knew everything they write is actually written by committee. They knew that if they didn't deliver good material, actors... being the sometimes fickle people that they are... would get dissatisfied. They knew that everything depended on the actors working together and being present on the set. They knew the producers and suits have a big say in how it goes.

I get so tired of writers delivering a crappy product and blaming the suits for it. Yes, yes, writers... it is hard to produce under pressure. But if you find yourself not to be the kind of person who can write good material under pressure, with a good imagination for coming up with great stories at a moment's notice, maybe pick another freaking job! Make more room for those who can do it! Like the Ron Moores of the world. If you don't write crap, your actors wouldn't be as dissatisfied, and your audience wouldn't be picking on you.

If the suits demand an actor be written off, or a character killed... that doesn't oblige you to write it in a way that sucks and negates the entirety of your show's premise. If a show is on the downhill slope because of internal discord (*cough* Castle *cough*) maybe the writers ought to read the tea leaves, like anyone else in the employed world, and seek work elsewhere before the clusterf*ck is in full swing, rather than bitching about how hard the actors are to work with. It's not like they have a gun to their heads and have to stay on a sinking ship. Contracts, sure. But I'll bet there is a stipulation in their contract that allows them to quit, or get fired. I doubt they'd sign their lives into forced servitude.

So. Be adults, writers. Just like the rest of the working stiffs in the world. You signed up for the job, because you wanted to work in television, and be vicariously famous. If you can't do it, pick another job. 

I'll say this. I'm glad some of TPTB have been receptive to fan feedback via social media. I feel like they've ben writing in a bubble without any regard for what attracted fans to SH in the first place.

[Enigma X]

Wrong Thread!

Edited May 15, 2016 by Enigma X
I am an idiot!

[jhlipton]

9 hours ago, CalamityBoPeep said:

 

If the suits demand an actor be written off, or a character killed... that doesn't oblige you to write it in a way that sucks and negates the entirety of your show's premiseously famous. If you can't do it, pick another job. 

Exactly.  Wentworth Miller needed time off from Legends of Tomorrow to do a Prison Break movie, so they wrote a great scene for him where he can be "dead" until he's done, then make occasional appearances in the "flarrowverse".  They didn't sabotage his character (and he got a real kiss!).  No reason at all the writers of Sleepy Hollow couldn't have done that as well.

Actors take breaks for movies All The Time now.  If you can't deal with that, go home to your momma.

[Julia]

15 hours ago, C76 said:

This is a case of an episode being awful, yes. But it's not merely awful because of the way it was written. It is awful because Abbie DIED. My point was that the decision to kill a character isn't something that a show's writers can get away with on their own. That's a very serious matter in terms of a show's structure. For something like that to occur, someone higher-up has to either approve it--if a writer was out of it enough to suggest it--or order it to happen.

For all we know LDJ could be spouting BS, but what he said isn't outside of the realm of possibility.

So, she had to die. Let's just assume that's the case. 

Are you (the writers) really saying that the MBAs in the corporate suite demanded that Abbie say out loud in words that the purpose of her existence on a cosmic scale was to get him to the end of season 3? That she was not just fridged, but that chance, fate, god and grace demanded she be fridged?

Really?

Edited May 16, 2016 by Julia
apparently I wasn't clear

[Snookums]

I would not watch this renewed racist, sexist garbage fire for eleven million dollars. Not for a herd of ponies. Not for a fleet of mini dinosaurs that are trained to bake cookies. Not for Tom Mison appearing at my door in a deerhide loincloth doing his full court bow. I will not ever, ever give these showrunners reason to think what they did to the show and its star is okay.

[C76]

3 hours ago, Julia said:

So, she had to die. Let's just assume that's the case. 

Are you really saying that the MBAs in the corporate suite demanded that Abbie say out loud in words that the purpose of her existence on a cosmic scale was to get him to the end of season 3? That she was not just fridged, but that chance, fate, god and grace demanded she be fridged?

Really?

Please reread my post. That's not what I said. I referred specifically to the decision to kill her. Not how it was done. 

The suits on a show can demand the former. The writers take care of the latter.

[Julia]

5 hours ago, C76 said:

Please reread my post. That's not what I said. I referred specifically to the decision to kill her. Not how it was done. 

The suits on a show can demand the former. The writers take care of the latter.

I understand that.  I was responding to the writer's claim that they were forced to do what they did the way they did it. IOW, I was agreeing with you. 

[C76]

5 hours ago, Julia said:

I understand that.  I was responding to the writer's claim that they were forced to do what they did the way they did it. IOW, I was agreeing with you. 

Thank you for clarifying. I'm sorry. Because your post said "you", I assumed that you were referring to me.

[Julia]

Just now, C76 said:

Thank you for clarifying. I'm sorry. Because your post said "you", I assumed that you were referring to me.

Seems like a reasonable assumption :)

[Trini]

Comments about Sleepy Hollow from Fox's CEO.

[HalcyonDays]

20 minutes ago, Trini said:

Comments about Sleepy Hollow from Fox's CEO.

Interesting article. The picture of what happened and why keeps getting clearer and clearer....

I'm hoping for a good shady government intrigue in my SH S4. And someone to write a BTS book.

[blugirlami21]

I'm disappointed that the network feels the need to insinuate that Abbie being killed off in the disrespectful way she was is Nicole's fault. Or that she was so disagreeable that this is the only option that they had for the show.  It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Own up to your decisions. The ratings for the show speak for themselves. The troubled bts issues speak for themselves. The show was struggling with Nicole and Tom. Everyone touts that they're chemistry as co-leads is what a good portion of the audience was tuning in for. But they think that killing off half of that dream team is a viable solution? Ok.  

I'm really surprised that they didn't follow Abc's lead on this issue considering Castle. A show with a much stronger chance for some kind of success when the premise of the show completely changes.

I definitely won't be watching and I will be very interested in seeing how many people tune in.

[bobbysgurl]

1 hour ago, HalcyonDays said:

Interesting article. The picture of what happened and why keeps getting clearer and clearer....

I'm hoping for a good shady government intrigue in my SH S4. And someone to write a BTS book.

 

Not so interesting so much as typical.  FOX is blaming Abbie's demise on NB.  Tom is not a "big star".  Who exactly was TM before SH?  This doesn't change how I feel about TM, but FOX's statement only adds fuel to the fire.

The positive feedback about SH they claim to have gotten back that made them renew the series is utter BULLSHIT!

FOX was and is tone death to what a great portion of their audience wanted.  We did not tune in for CFD and nor will we tune in for the Ichabod Crane Show.  We paid for SH with the time we devoted to the show.  We want what we paid for, not some half-assed knockoff.

Every freaking time I see some BS like FOX's BS, I see someone blaming the victim.  I will not accept it, because I cannot accept it.

Let it be known to all of you who will tune into SH, you do what you have to do.  I ain't mad atcha.  As for me, I hope SH does a Hindenburg--crashes and burns like a mutha.

[LeeLeePanda]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

Comments about Sleepy Hollow from Fox's CEO.

The CEO can take all the seats. What an insulting load of malarkey. She literally just killed any interest I might have had in checking out next season. Ill be blunt: the majority of the angry fans are people of color. Yes, I know a lot of white fans are angry too, but so many poc have been vocal on what Abbie Mills means to them. I feel like she's saying that our anger doesn't matter, that our opinions aren't important.

She's ignoring the fact that a huge part of the shows audience was black, and are upset. The show hemmoraged fans for a reason in season 2, and will lose even more in season 4. They will never see the audience of season 1 again, and definitely don't deserve it. 

Also, if Nicole really was such a diva and made things unpleasant, then why aren't more people talking about it? What do they have to lose by being honest? Tom was very vocal about his displeasure about the direction the show was going in, and most of it benefited his character! No one is saying that he needed to be fired. 

[catrox14]

From the article.

 

Quote

There were a variety of factors that led to the end of the season,” CEO Dana Walden told reporters during a Monday-morning conference call to tout Fox’s fall schedule. “It was not a decision that we wanted to make initially. We ended up being put in a situation where that was a decision that needed to be made.”

Regarding the controversial decision to move on with a fourth season sans Beharie, Walden said, “What we know is that Tom Mison is a big star. And the Ichabod Crane character has been so central to the series and the storytelling and he feels like an original, big Fox character.

“We don’t feel like it has to be the end of the life of the show,” she added. “And while there was backlash [to the Season 4 renewal], there was also a tremendous amount of enthusiasm from fans about the show coming back and about Tom having the ability to be the center of the series and discovering new dynamics and new relationships. It’s a very original premise and we felt like it had greater life in it and that there was no reason to end it.”

Walden also denied that Season 4 would serve as the show’s swan song. “We’re not announcing that it’s the final season,” she maintained. “We’re not sure if it’s the final season.”

HOLY SHIT. The spin in this has me reaching for Dramamine and whiskey.

All due respect to Tom Mison, who I adore and think is immensely talented, he is NOT a BIG star. He's a wonderful working actor who has been in several things. Sleepy Hollow gave him more visibility but it was the unique relationship between Ichabod and Abbie that made SH work. IMO. 

Some love Ichabod and think he is the bomb and they are not wrong. Some love Abbie Mills and think she is the bomb and they are not wrong,  but what worked is that the show was about THE TWO WITNESSES figuring out this witness thing TOGETHER and stopping the Apocalypses and the 7 year tribulation TOGETHER.  IT WAS SET UP THAT WAY FROM THE START.

It was only when Mrs. Struggle Witch had to be forced into the narrative that they went away from that. They had the perfect chance to regroup and start over with the 6 year Tribulations with the same TWO WITNESSES.

The ONLY thing I can think is was "forcing their hand" is IF and I mean IF there were 'creative differences'. 

But regardless of WHY Nicole left, they didn't need to kill Abbie to write Nicole out. I guess they needed to make sure there was no question about Nicole not returning, then kill her off and let Ichabod carry on in Abbie's good name. Remembering that for him to continue as a witness he was now doing it to complete the mission FOR ABBIE. I could have lived with that. Abbie's soul in Heaven and Ichabod carrying the torch for her and the original mission. 

But holy shit, it's like they decided to be punitive in her demise. Retcon her mission to having only ever been Ichabod's guide thus erasing 3 (well really 1.5) seasons of teamwork between the designated Two Witnesses. They couldn't even let Abbie's soul RIP in Heaven after all she gave to the mission and Ichabod. Nope, her soul gets passed into another fucking person without her or their consent, it seems too.  Guess what SH that's called possession. LOL nice.  They could have just written it that when one of the Two Witnesses dies, another will be activated. Don't put the original witness' soul in another goddamn body you asshats.

It would be so much better if they just rebranded the whole damn thing.Kill the name of Ichabod Crane, give Tom new clothing and rename him Tom Crane: Colonial TimeCop because no matter what you say, Ms Walden, Ichabod Crane IS NOT and has never been an original Fox character.

But you know who was an original Fox character? Abbie Mills.  Just sayin'

[C76]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

From the article.

 

HOLY SHIT. The spin in this has me reaching for Dramamine and whiskey.

All due respect to Tom Mison, who I adore and think is immensely talented, he is NOT a BIG star. He's a wonderful working actor who has been in several things. Sleepy Hollow gave him more visibility but it was the unique relationship between Ichabod and Abbie that made SH work. IMO. 

Some love Ichabod and think he is the bomb and they are not wrong. Some love Abbie Mills and think she is the bomb and they are not wrong,  but what worked is that the show was about THE TWO WITNESSES figuring out this witness thing TOGETHER and stopping the Apocalypses and the 7 year tribulation TOGETHER.  IT WAS SET UP THAT WAY FROM THE START.

It was only when Mrs. Struggle Witch had to be forced into the narrative that they went away from that. They had the perfect chance to regroup and start over with the 6 year Tribulations with the same TWO WITNESSES.

The ONLY thing I can think is was "forcing their hand" is IF and I mean IF there were 'creative differences'. 

But regardless of WHY Nicole left, they didn't need to kill Abbie to write Nicole out. I guess they needed to make sure there was no question about Nicole not returning, then kill her off and let Ichabod carry on in Abbie's good name. Remembering that for him to continue as a witness he was now doing it to complete the mission FOR ABBIE. I could have lived with that. Abbie's soul in Heaven and Ichabod carrying the torch for her and the original mission. 

But holy shit, it's like they decided to be punitive in her demise. Retcon her mission to having only ever been Ichabod's guide thus erasing 3 (well really 1.5) seasons of teamwork between the designated Two Witnesses. They couldn't even let Abbie's soul RIP in Heaven after all she gave to the mission and Ichabod. Nope, her soul gets passed into another fucking person without her or their consent, it seems too.  Guess what SH that's called possession. LOL nice.  They could have just written it that when one of the Two Witnesses dies, another will be activated. Don't put the original witness' soul in another goddamn body you asshats.

It would be so much better if they just rebranded the whole damn thing.Kill the name of Ichabod Crane, give Tom new clothing and rename him Tom Crane: Colonial TimeCop because no matter what you say, Ms Walden, Ichabod Crane IS NOT and has never been an original Fox character.

But you know who was an original Fox character? Abbie Mills.  Just sayin'

Your Colonial TImeCop joke made me laugh. 

Also, I completely agree about the idea of the Witnesses together. I've thought about how I'd feel if roles were reversed and Tom Mison was the one who was killed off. The anger I've felt would be replaced with an ample level of confusion. Anyone at Fox who thinks this show's premise will succeed without both of its original actors is fooling her/himself.

[cynic]

This doesn't surprise me. There's a tendency to slap any women, particularly black women, who stand up for themselves and refuse to take crap with the "Diva" label. Rumors will be spread and shade will be thrown painting her as "difficult" to distract from how badly she was treated to try and make this renewal more palatable to viewers. And there will be plenty of people who will eagerly eat it up, because they want to continue watching and don't want to deal with all the associated ickiness swirling around it. They want to believe it was all Beharie's fault, it's easier to believe it's all Beharies fault, and so they were just waiting for spin doctors to come out and give them something to latch on to while conveniently ignoring that, whatever her behavior was, it was in reaction to how she was treated basically since the tail end of season 1. "It's not the writers' fault! She wanted to leave." Well, it's pretty likely that it is the writers' fault THAT she wanted to leave. I just hope that she is prepared for the backlash that is going to come from her not playing the game. As a black woman, she's not likely to get the benefit of the doubt or as many chances as even people whose reputation is based on much more evidence than vague comments and speculation.

On a completely unrelated note, Katherine Heigl's new drama was just picked up by CBS.

[Yolapukka]

Dana Walden's words about being "Put into a situation" sound a bit weaselly, like she won't come out and say it but whatever went on with Nicole leaving was imposed on the network, which sounds like, again, she's not saying anything outright, that it was Nicole's actions that were the tipping point in writing off Abbie. Nicole's possible choices could simply be no more than an expectation that the show continue to honour the terms of the contract she signed and a desire to be released from it rather than accept anything that re-negotiates her into an effective downgrade.

Edited May 16, 2016 by yuggapukka

[vanarnd1]

Sigh... Those comments are why I was not excited for a renewal. There is going to be months of PR to frame this as if FOX  had no control over what happened. It ignores the context of what happened in Season 2 and honestly even in the writing in Season 3. You are going to tell me they really valued Nicole but by episode 2 of this season had already introduced Betsy and Zoey in hopes of being able to replace her. And then they killed off Abbie in a way that showed they didn't learn at all from how they offended fans during the Katrina debacle. It is going to be painful having to slowly weed myself off of this show but it would probably be more painful to try and watch Season 4 at this point

Related point; If anyone watches cable news, Melissa Harris-Perry "left" her show a few months ago. While technically it was her choice, it only happened after her show had been preempted for multiple weeks and the network tried to restrict her from talking about non election topics. So even accepting this was Nicole's decision, it can not be forgotten how much the leadership of the show and FOX screwed things up and they should not be let off the hook IMO.

[Sparger Springs]

19 hours ago, Snookums said:

I would not watch this renewed racist, sexist garbage fire for eleven million dollars. Not for a herd of ponies. Not for a fleet of mini dinosaurs that are trained to bake cookies. Not for Tom Mison appearing at my door in a deerhide loincloth doing his full court bow. I will not ever, ever give these showrunners reason to think what they did to the show and its star is okay.

For eleven million dollars you can get me to watch The David Duke/KKK  Variety show on FOX news after the O'Reilly Factor.  since no money is being offered  I will not be watching Season 4 of Sleepy Hollow. I have no problems dropping a show.

[Enero]

The most unfortunate outcome of this situation is that it will do NB's career no favors. Whether she felt forced to leave or not, it is never a good idea for a lead actor to request early release from their contract or to be fired before meeting their contract obligations. Some more seasoned actors have been able to do this and come out unscathed, but a decision like this is always harder on those who are new to stardom and especially women, even worse I'm sure for WOC. 

[Blackhoney]

I think Nicole will be fine. She’s already booked a new gig and I think she’s gonna book many more. I think she’ll stay in movies though. I don’t see her coming back to TV anytime soon. Her role on SH really was a once in a lifetime gig for a black actress. Just look at TV, every show starring a black female is produced by Shonda Rhimes, a black woman. 

I have said in the past I think Nicole was a hired token. Used by Fox to get some of the hype ABC was getting for their success with Kerry Washington and Scandal. I think her popularity was a shock and it left everyone scratching their heads. How else can you explain everyone being so against an Ichabbie pairing when the pairing was between the two leads? 

Were Nicole really meant to be an equal, she wouldn’t have been written outta the narrative by episode 8 (Necromancer). By episode 13 half the season had been spent with Abbie following Crane around trying to find out what happened to his son and getting his wife outta Purgatory.

The writing has been on the wall for a while. Fans just chose to ignore it.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Blackhoney

[Iamsweetdee]

Week, Nia is coming to Fox in the spring, I believe. Let's see how that goes as she seems to be very outspoken.

 

ETA: Think I got my networks confused, it's Sanaa that's on Fox, Nia's on ABC...I think. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Iamsweetdee

[TV Juriste]

3 hours ago, Enero said:

The most unfortunate outcome of this situation is that it will do NB's career no favors. Whether she felt forced to leave or not, it is never a good idea for a lead actor to request early release from their contract or to be fired before meeting their contract obligations. Some more seasoned actors have been able to do this and come out unscathed, but a decision like this is always harder on those who are new to stardom and especially women, even worse I'm sure for WOC. 

Yes, this worries me as well.

[TV Juriste]

13 hours ago, HalcyonDays said:

Interesting article. The picture of what happened and why keeps getting clearer and clearer....

I'm hoping for a good shady government intrigue in my SH S4. And someone to write a BTS book.

The extent to which insiders are casting aspersions on NB is shameful.  It's like a bully who punching his victims repeatedly and then complain that my blood stained his shirt. (A few insiders have pointed out that NB was not a diva on set despite the concerted, coordinated whisper campaign being used to silence fans' complaints).  

What a horrible mess.

[HalcyonDays]

Quote

The extent to which insiders are casting aspersions on NB is shameful.

Disagree. The evidence is out there. I've learned a lot about the situation, that I have not revealed in posts here at all....At this point, everyone - everyone - even remotely attached or barely connected to SH by obscure connections is automatically considered the villain, no matter what logical proof is revealed otherwise. Why are people not considering even with a barest of consideration or even the remotest possibility that maybe, possibly, hypothetically, that Beharie really wanted out of the show, really wanted to do movies and FOX bent over backwards to quell the turmoil and try to appease her for as long as they could? There is a reason that merely two or so days after Abbie Mills' death (aka SH finale), that the remake of Jacob's Ladder was announced, along with Beharie's casting. Castings like this are not done in days. It takes weeks. Months even. Albert Kim tweeted about the movie weeks before the end of the finale. They all knew. All of them. She wanted out, she wanted her movie career. That is the reality.

There is a reason that seemingly disconnected writers are tweeting their similar turmoil. This is not an accident. The problem is that the public refuses to even consider it a possibility. This is a close knit group who all talk to each other and reveal things. TV Networks all know what really happened with Nicole Beharie. Eric Heisserer spoke the truth, and there is a reason so many other writers have picked this up.

[cynic]

Oh, I have no doubt that Beharie wanted to leave. My issue is the laying of blame at Beharie for wanting to leave without considering why she wanted to leave. It was pretty clear two and a half years ago which way to wind was blowing. Beharie signed up to be the co-lead of a show where she was given great material to work with, but before the first season was even up, she was pushed to the side and devalued in favor of a producer's pet. I'm sure that affected not only what happened onscreen, but the working environment as well. Goffman's feeling towards her were apparent in every interview he gave. I'm not going to blame her for wanting out of a toxic situation that was a sinking ship as well. Even though the showrunner was changed in season 3, by then, the well was poisoned.

I find Eric Heisserer and his "hypotheticals" to be gross. If it's true that "the actress" had a doctor's note for a reduced schedule, than him using that as ammunition against her is tacky as hell, regardless of whether he thought it was legit. He's not privy to her medical situation and cannot judge and spreading that information is an invasion. And to couch the whole thing as the actress wanting to leave so she could do movies? Really? Not even a mention that there could possibly be another reason that someone might want to leave one job for another? Cause there's been no inkling of anything else wrong on the SH set, right? He put it that way to put maximum diva spin on the situation, so he could act like it's the writers who are really the victims here. It's the poor writers who can't even let anyone know that they are the put upon ones, because they aren't allowed to tell anyone, except somehow they are still managing to tell everyone and spread these rumors and basically act like the mean girls in the lunchroom. Over three years, Beharie has said pretty much nothing about these people, despite the legitimacy of her grievances clearly playing out on our screens. That should be a clue about who the likely troublemakers were.

Be free, Beharie. Stay classy and good luck on your movie career.

[Indi]

Of course castings like Jacob's Ladder are not done in days, but then Campbell knew he'd kill Abbie off, as they began with the S3 writing process, so they can miss me with the crocodile tears and finger-pointing. What was Nicole supposed to do? Sit on her hands, until they finished kicking her character on screen and put the blame on her, to start searching for her next role?

There is nothing about Nicole's decision as presented by them, that forced anything presented on screen. Let's all try to remember that the mid-season finale was supposed to be Abbie's end, but they got cold feet. Let's remember that there are many ways to say goodbye to a character, that doesn't automatically mean death or diminishing the character or general bad writing. Nicole "wanting to leave, because she's a diva" (please, bitch!) didn't force Campbell to lie through his teeth about slow burns. He had more than enough time to write a decent send-off for Abbie, but he gave me a pile of putrid stinking garbage.

Dana Walden, FOX in general, Campbell, Metzner, LDJ and everyone involved in this tacky blame fest can go to hell.

EDIT: You beat me to it. Great post, cynic.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Indi

[Watermelon]

6 hours ago, HalcyonDays said:

Disagree. The evidence is out there. I've learned a lot about the situation, that I have not revealed in posts here at all....At this point, everyone - everyone - even remotely attached or barely connected to SH by obscure connections is automatically considered the villain, no matter what logical proof is revealed otherwise. Why are people not considering even with a barest of consideration or even the remotest possibility that maybe, possibly, hypothetically, that Beharie really wanted out of the show, really wanted to do movies and FOX bent over backwards to quell the turmoil and try to appease her for as long as they could? There is a reason that merely two or so days after Abbie Mills' death (aka SH finale), that the remake of Jacob's Ladder was announced, along with Beharie's casting. Castings like this are not done in days. It takes weeks. Months even. Albert Kim tweeted about the movie weeks before the end of the finale. They all knew. All of them. She wanted out, she wanted her movie career. That is the reality.

There is a reason that seemingly disconnected writers are tweeting their similar turmoil. This is not an accident. The problem is that the public refuses to even consider it a possibility. This is a close knit group who all talk to each other and reveal things. TV Networks all know what really happened with Nicole Beharie. Eric Heisserer spoke the truth, and there is a reason so many other writers have picked this up.

I think most fans believe Beharie wanted to leave. I think where fans and SH Staff don't meet is WHY she wanted to leave in the first place. 

They almost want fans to believe Nicole just had a change of heart about TV work, when it seems fairly clear to me the writing was shitty and shunted her away from being the lead. Of course she wouldn't want to stay.  But even her leaving has nothing to do with why they wrote her death so shittily. Soooo long story not so long, "Nicole wanted to leave" is not an excuse for, "Abbie's only purpose was to support Ichabod. She's totes replaceable". 

 

I don't believe in, "She wanted her movie career" personally. NO SHADE, but this Jacob's Ladder remake is not the thing to hang a hat on.  It sounds one step up from direct to dvd, if I'm honest.  It would seem to me, that barring extenuating circumstances, tv stars like to stay on TV. They negotiate to get their  time off for other projects, but they like those checks. Not to mention, if it goes to syndication? Checks on checks on checks. Which actors like to have.

[benteen]

22 hours ago, Trini said:

Comments about Sleepy Hollow from Fox's CEO.

I like Tom Mison a lot but I almost laughed when the CEO said he was a big star.  He may have been an up-and-coming "It" actor after Season 1 but the show has declined so badly that it and sadly its cast have become afterthoughts.  The only decline I've seen as bad as this one for the genre is Heroes and Sleepy Hollow was never as big as Heroes was.

Also, isn't TM taking a reduced workload this season?  So no Abbie and a reduced TM presence.  How do they think anyone is going to watch this show?

[cynic]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

....

Also, isn't TM taking a reduced workload this season?  So no Abbie and a reduced TM presence.  How do they think anyone is going to watch this show?

A further reduced workload, apparently. From the supposed hypotheticals, Mison fought for and got a reduced workload in season 3 after Beharie did. Guess that makes him difficult too, right? The only specific allegation that Heisserer made to show how "difficult" Beharie was being over her wanting out was her pressing for a reduced workload. He complained how hard it was to write for the show, especially after her co-star got the same deal. And now, he's fought for even more, which will really hamstring season 4. What a diva! Oh wait, no one is saying that about him.

And yeah, a season four with with no Mills, less Crane, and more Sophie/Jenny doesn't sound appetizing at all.

Edited May 17, 2016 by cynic
deleted erroneous spoiler bars on my desktop, because I couldn't do it on my phone