S03.E10: Celebrations

[RedheadZombie]

I think this was a pretty good episode for Sam.  Sure she put him on the spot - again - about being fake.  Sam has consistently called Neil out on being one way (and cooler) when the cameras are off, and different (fake) when the cameras are on.  If true, I understand why Sam would be confused.  Which one is real?  But I think the real problem is Sam is not self-conscious, is very comfortable in her own skin, and doesn't realize what it's like to be an introvert who hates being put on the spot.  To be fair, Neil was amongst his friends, and Sam was mostly (not so gently) teasing him.   I have to say that Neil is probably the most introverted, self-contained person I've ever seen.  He doesn't relax or let his guard down, even when he's surrounded by friends.  He sure perked up when watching Sam in the silks, though.  And he seemed to enjoy being directed by her.  Hmm.  Sounds like an ideal BDSM situation.

 

Oh, BTW, I'm beginning to think that Sam's true problem with the shared home was it banned pets.  My pets are my babies and I'm never happy when separated.  I don't really feel comfortable when they're in the care of others, and I'm at my happiest when my daily life includes them.

 

I think she simply regrets her decision to participate in this show. She's closed off, she can be very diffiult, but I wouldn't go as far as to say she's horrible or anything like that. I think under normal circumstances with no pressure she's probably even a pretty nice albeit humorless human being. With David, she has to meet at least some expectations. And that can lead to someone shutting down.

 

I see her as shut down, too.  I also think she's probably a lot warmer, IRL.  She's dedicated herself to social work, and then nursing - no one does that unless they truly care about their fellow human beings.  As to why she signed up ........  Maybe she just doesn't know herself that well yet.  Maybe her nine year relationship lasted nine years because the thought of attempting another intimate relationship overwhelmed her, so she stayed with what she knew.  Maybe she bought into the concept that they would find her ideal mate, and she wouldn't have to do the hard work of looking.

 

Did Ashley really not invite her friends? I didn't catch that.

 

People are assuming it.  I kind of buy that idea though.  A true introvert wouldn't find inviting more people (even your own friends) reassuring.  It's simply more people to deal with, and also more people staring at you and trying to parse out the "marriage". 

[RedheadZombie]

I believe I heard Ashley actually say something about feeling isolated.  You're right, she wasn't isolated.  If she felt that way it was in her own head because she was determined to set herself apart from everyone at the party even if that is not what really happened.  She doesn't know how to make herself the focus of attention and as a card carrying ultra-introvert, I can tell you that this has nothing to do with introversion and everything to do with her suffering from social anxiety. 

 

I think you're right.  I'm both, so it's hard for me to separate the two.  I do know that David is absolutely clueless about her.  Every single signal she's ever given has pointed toward being introverted and anxious around people.  He knows this, and yet pushes her past the number of guests she plainly said she would be comfortable with.  He's also not yet able to see past the act she puts on to cover her discomfort.  I've become very good at it over the years, but anyone who knows me can spot it. 

 

Social anxiety is almost impossible to explain to people who don't feel it on a constant basis.  Even if Ashley thought the party was a great idea at first, the anticipation is the absolute worst.  Most of us have a long list of excuses to cancel or postpone, and that starts up as the event gets closer.   The anxiety is disproportionate with the circumstances, but knowing that makes you feel even worse.  Simply staying put and attending the party is a big accomplishment, but David really doesn't realize that.  So he's off in his dream world of beautiful wife and home, in his element as a loud and boisterous extrovert, while she's in a state of hyper-awareness.  I just can't explain it.  But I can see that Ashley also can't get out of her own head.  She's never just in the moment, and that's something else I'm familiar with.  And as much as it sucks being stuck with Ashley, it sucks much more to be Ashley. 

[Ivana Tinkle]

Tres really impressed me in this episode.  I did feel he was genuine and he does seem to be trying.  And it was sad hearing him say he thought his wife would be the one person to never abandon him, and she did.  I normally like Vanessa, but she did not come off well in this episode at all.  She could barely contain her seething jealousy over Jenna.  And draping yourself all over your husband, trying to lay claim to him?  Nagl, girl.  

 

I didn't...hate Sam this episode.  I'm not sure what to make of this.

 

Based on what we saw, I will give Ashley some credit in that she did appear to be interacting with David's friends.  However, it's not surprising that the part of Ashley's "friends" was played by some tumbleweeds.

[sleekandchic]

I think you're right.  I'm both, so it's hard for me to separate the two.  I do know that David is absolutely clueless about her.  Every single signal she's ever given has pointed toward being introverted and anxious around people.  He knows this, and yet pushes her past the number of guests she plainly said she would be comfortable with.  He's also not yet able to see past the act she puts on to cover her discomfort.  I've become very good at it over the years, but anyone who knows me can spot it. 

 

Social anxiety is almost impossible to explain to people who don't feel it on a constant basis.  Even if Ashley thought the party was a great idea at first, the anticipation is the absolute worst.  Most of us have a long list of excuses to cancel or postpone, and that starts up as the event gets closer.   The anxiety is disproportionate with the circumstances, but knowing that makes you feel even worse.  Simply staying put and attending the party is a big accomplishment, but David really doesn't realize that.  So he's off in his dream world of beautiful wife and home, in his element as a loud and boisterous extrovert, while she's in a state of hyper-awareness.  I just can't explain it.  But I can see that Ashley also can't get out of her own head.  She's never just in the moment, and that's something else I'm familiar with.  And as much as it sucks being stuck with Ashley, it sucks much more to be Ashley.

RedheadZ, your post is fascinating and you explained your points well. Thank you! :)

Why do you think Ashley auditioned and accepted this show? Would you have ever thought about an enormous, ultra-public exposure doing something similar? That's one aspect of Ashley I just cannot reconcile with her apparent introvert/social-anxiety personality. Why did she seek out, then agree to appear on tv?

[eclectic]

I'm over Ashley but really, David is so needy.  It is as if he doesn't know how to be a friend first.  But back to Ashley.  If she isolates herself from the party, she's going to be alone. And she sure hasn't done anything to message to David that she wanted to partner in any way whatsoever.  Their relationship is actually making me not want to watch . . . but I  will. :)

[eclectic]

One more thing: I finally see the connection between Neil and Sam and she is so right for him.  I think with time she will become more understanding and less embarrassing to him but for now some of her extroverted eccentricities are just perfect for him. 

[sleekandchic]

I read that ashleys friends did come but we're edited out of the show...

In one of his talking heads that discussed the party, David said it sucked that none of Ashley's friends "showed." I didn't believe that at all, unless she invited only one or two people. I really think she didn't bother because what's the point plus she didn't want to explain to friends how wrong the marriage is for her. Or, she really has no friends locally.

David DOES play with the truth at times. In his TH, he said more people than expected showed up on his side because people came from out of town, and he couldn't say no to them. I don't believe that. I think he barreled ahead to invite whomever he wanted, without regard for Ashley's wish for a smaller party.

His "my wife" this and "my wife" that also gets on my last nerve.

[RedheadZombie]

RedheadZ, your post is fascinating and you explained your points well. Thank you! :)

Why do you think Ashley auditioned and accepted this show? Would you have ever thought about an enormous, ultra-public exposure doing something similar? That's one aspect of Ashley I just cannot reconcile with her apparent introvert/social-anxiety personality. Why did she seek out, then agree to appear on tv?

I think Ashley just doesn't know herself yet. It takes a while to figure out. You think you're just shy, but then you meet other people who are shy yet have an easier time. It's kind of embarrassing and you may not feel comfortable explaining it to your friends, who BTW, take all of your quirks personally. There's a chance that Ashley was trying to challenge herself. It's also likely that she underestimated the stress and overestimated what she could handle. On the job she's probably very efficient and warm. I'm a nurse and fall into that roll easily. The majority of her life has been as student and professional. Outside of those roles is where life gets so hard.

I would never have signed up.

[sleekandchic]

I think Ashley just doesn't know herself yet. It takes a while to figure out. You think you're just shy, but then you meet other people who are shy yet have an easier time. It's kind of embarrassing and you may not feel comfortable explaining it to your friends, who BTW, take all of your quirks personally. There's a chance that Ashley was trying to challenge herself. It's also likely that she underestimated the stress and overestimated what she could handle. On the job she's probably very efficient and warm. I'm a nurse and fall into that roll easily. The majority of her life has been as student and professional. Outside of those roles is where life gets so hard.

I would never have signed up.

You're making sense and opening my mind to some of Ashley's behaviors. Thanks again, RedheadZombie! :)

[moonxyz]

I still feel the same about Tres. He isn’t ready for marriage. He says he misses his old lifestyle and I believe him. Yes Vanessa is insecure and her reaction (leaving ) was over the top but she has more then enough reasons to do so :

 

1) Tres didn’t want to get married and had to be convincedto sign up for the show

 

2) Was partying it up a few weeks before his wedding day

 

3) Financially irresponsible. Spends ridiculous amount of money in bars/possibly strip clubs

 

4) In her video diaries, she felt that Tres said the right things but didn’t actually act like he was physically attracted to her. I agree. I’ve been watching their body language since day one. This dude says great things about her but Vanessa is the one initiating physical contact (outside of sex) 9/10

 

5) He’s kind of full of shit in general. I feel like they as a couple and he as an individual is getting a very good edit. Kind of like basement Ryan. He prays randomly for his marriage ? Yeah. No you don’t.

 

6) This may be a very unpopular opinion but married men having single, attractive female friends is a huge red flag for me and the way Jenna acted at the BBQ comforted me in my views. I have a hard time believing that Tres and Jenna actually didn’t screw around at one point. The Jenna-Vanessa interaction gave me mistress-wife vibes. Jenna was clearly marking her territory. The way she sat on the couch next to Tres was inappropriate. 

Edited February 3, 2016 by moonxyz

[Jack Sampson]

I don't buy the Sam turnaround. She's like any other abusive person, they keep it together for a little while to convince you to stay, then unleash hell.

I'm so shocked Ashley doesn't have friends who would come over. Wonder if the show hired the actors who played her bridesmaids.

[Kareem]

I don't buy the Sam turnaround. She's like any other abusive person, they keep it together for a little while to convince you to stay, then unleash hell.

I'm so shocked Ashley doesn't have friends who would come over. Wonder if the show hired the actors who played her bridesmaids.

Yes yes yes to both. Re Ashley, I've wondered why her friends at the bachelorette party didn't know her well enough to know that the hired men were enough to make her want to move to Mexico.

Someone above said that the three women don't seem to be ready for marriage. I agree with that also. Funny that they had someone like Monet who wants it so badly she can taste it, followed by this season's two head cases and Vanessa who maybe should consider a trained seal instead. These chicks are exhausting.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Kareem

[ketose]

I have to cut David some slack as far as the nonsense he says during the interviews. I think Ashley has trigged a psychotic break and David might be better when he's divorced.

[kam]

I completely understand where Vanessa is coming from, Jenna gave me all of the bad vibes. I just think it was childish of her to run away from the situation. to sum it up they have been married 4 weeks and she doesn't trust him all the way. Sounds about normal to me. Vanessa needs to understand that Although Tres needs to do some growing for this marriage to prosper she does too. You don't have it all together like you think you do.

Tres isn't perfect but he seems pretty sincere in being the person she wants him to be. Looks like he knows he has a lot to learn. He looked pretty sad when she left and not TV sad(take a camera to your fathers grave to cry sad). I felt bad for him a little.

Neil and Sam were okay this episode. I really like Neil, he's very funny. I don't hate Sam.

I'm tired of Ashley and David. Mostly David, I still think everything he says and does sounds like a bad romance novel he read and quotes constantly. None of it makes any sense. So I tune them out.

[jamblastx]

I still feel the same about Tres. He isn’t ready for marriage. He says he misses his old lifestyle and I believe him. Yes Vanessa is insecure and her reaction (leaving ) was over the top but she has more then enough reasons to do so :

 

1) Tres didn’t want to get married and had to be convincedto sign up for the show

 

2) Was partying it up a few weeks before his wedding day

 

3) Financially irresponsible. Spends ridiculous amount of money in bars/possibly strip clubs

 

4) In her video diaries, she felt that Tres said the right things but didn’t actually act like he was physically attracted to her. I agree. I’ve been watching their body language since day one. This dude says great things about her but Vanessa is the one initiating physical contact (outside of sex) 9/10

 

5) He’s kind of full of shit in general. I feel like they as a couple and he as an individual is getting a very good edit. Kind of like basement Ryan. He prays randomly for his marriage ? Yeah. No you don’t.

 

6) This may be a very unpopular opinion but married men having single, attractive female friends is a huge red flag for me and the way Jenna acted at the BBQ comforted me in my views. I have a hard time believing that Tres and Jenna actually didn’t screw around at one point. The Jenna-Vanessa interaction gave me mistress-wife vibes. Jenna was clearly marking her territory. The way she sat on the couch next to Tres was inappropriate. 

Yup....100 percent yup.  And this does not get Vanessa off the hook either because while she has reason to doubt Tres' commitment to marriage in general, how she acted by shutting down and being pouty and having the conversation dragged out of her before heading for the hills was wrong as well.  Tres may not be ready for marriage but neither is she. 

[sleekandchic]

I can't see how Ashley's friends could easily be edited out of every party scene. It looked as though everyone congregated in the kitchen or the bbq area, with a few following David upstairs to look at the house. Contrary to what Ashley complained to David about later (and which I now better understand after RedheadZ's posts) she didn't isolate herself (except in her own head). She greeted the guests and interacted pleasantly. If her friends were really there, wouldn't they have been helping and hanging with her in the kitchen?

David specifically said in his TH that Ashley's friends didn't show.

Re Vanessa and Tres: this is probably a foolish and untenable idea, but I wonder if the couple should divorce at six weeks, but commit to dating exclusively for six months or a year. If they're really meant to be, then they should fight for a true relationship. I think Tres is genuinely fond of Vanessa,, and though she won't admit it, I think V is already in love with T.

Vanessa needs therapy to understand and to deal with her frequent shutting down and her deeeeeeep insecurities. Tres needs therapy to examine whether he's truly ready for a serious, committed relationship and all that entails. Couple-therapy could help V and T to be sensitive and cognizant of the other's triggers -- how to recognize them, avoid them, deal with them when problems come up.

Vanessa needs to learn how to distinguish fantasy vs reality. You know, underneath the giggling and childish pouting, Vanessa is highly intelligent, observant, sensitive and articulate in expressing her actions and reactions. At 26 or 27, she can turn things around for herself so she can understand that she really deserves happiness. Realistic happiness, not perfect happiness. That desire for perfection will be her eternal downfall if she doesn't learn how to deal.

[Snarklepuss]

People are assuming it.  I kind of buy that idea though.  A true introvert wouldn't find inviting more people (even your own friends) reassuring.  It's simply more people to deal with, and also more people staring at you and trying to parse out the "marriage". 

 

Actually, I think a true introvert with social anxiety would want to invite some friends over.  They'd be like, "Help, I'm going to be surrounded by people I don't know, please come and hang with me so I don't feel like the odd person out!"  I know all about this first hand as you might imagine!

 

I think you're right.  I'm both, so it's hard for me to separate the two.  I do know that David is absolutely clueless about her.  Every single signal she's ever given has pointed toward being introverted and anxious around people.  He knows this, and yet pushes her past the number of guests she plainly said she would be comfortable with.  He's also not yet able to see past the act she puts on to cover her discomfort.  I've become very good at it over the years, but anyone who knows me can spot it. 

 

Social anxiety is almost impossible to explain to people who don't feel it on a constant basis.  Even if Ashley thought the party was a great idea at first, the anticipation is the absolute worst.  Most of us have a long list of excuses to cancel or postpone, and that starts up as the event gets closer.   The anxiety is disproportionate with the circumstances, but knowing that makes you feel even worse.  Simply staying put and attending the party is a big accomplishment, but David really doesn't realize that.  So he's off in his dream world of beautiful wife and home, in his element as a loud and boisterous extrovert, while she's in a state of hyper-awareness.  I just can't explain it.  But I can see that Ashley also can't get out of her own head.  She's never just in the moment, and that's something else I'm familiar with.  And as much as it sucks being stuck with Ashley, it sucks much more to be Ashley. 

 

I might agree with you if I thought Ashley cared about David, but she doesn't, because if she did she'd make an effort to get over her anxiety for his sake, the relationship's sake and for her own sake.  Again, I know about this first hand as I have suffered from social anxiety all my life.  But the bitch has just dug her heels in and refused to participate from day one on anything.  Just sitting there and smiling is not participating and David was being far too generous about how far she had come. 

 

And David can't be expected to be a smoke signal reader or whatever he would have to be to "get" Ashley.  I've learned that extroverts have no problem telling me what they need from me so I have to be direct with them too.  I can't blame them for being "clueless", because everyone is until something or someone gives them the clue they need to get the picture.  From an extrovert's point of view being like Ashley is "clueless" so I think it works both ways.  Ashley said David knew she didn't want that many people over but the way she acted makes her look like a stick in the mud who just wanted to be a party pooper because she doesn't like David, not like someone who suffers anxiety and is getting her real feelings across to him.  I would have told him "You have to help me - You have to stick with me and include me in your conversations" and stuff like that, not run in the other room and then complain he paid no attention to her.  If you want attention you have to seek it.  But she just didn't care so she put like nothing into it.  And besides, at this point I wouldn't blame David for just having fun with his friends and not even caring about her feelings anymore given how little she's cared about his.  It may be spiteful but geesh, I'm even feeling spiteful at this point and I'm not even David!

Edited February 3, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[jamblastx]

Sam and Neil - Wow....Sam was not awful.  So I guess with her, you need to stick out the verbal abuse, hyper-sensitivity and passive aggressiveness for a month before she begins to be human.  OK....he should still pass though

 

Vanessa and Tres - Moonxyz said it best in regards to Tres....he is NOT ready for marriage (and neither is Vanessa for that matter).  He may state he wants marriage but its almost aspirational or even, 'I need to slow down my partying...hmm how can I do that?  Oh I know, marrying a stranger!'...yeah....no.  And Vanessa is a drama queen...constantly looking for evidence of a man failing her and then expecting him to read her mind when she is upset.  And Tres was right about one thing...it certainly seems she has a 'husband mold' and expects Tres to adapt to it.  She has the same expectations of her mate that Ashley does however they are not by looks, they are by character.  And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but with the both of them it seems that its all or nothing.  Either you fit that mold completely or else forget it

 

Ashley and David - God what a nightmare.  OK Ashley....if you felt isolated then invite some friends or go find your husband and tell him to pay more attention to you!!!  She is a self fulfilling prophecy and everything she does is for show to show that she is a 'good sport' and is 'trying'.  You haven't given him the time of day and suddenly you want him near you?!  You are so full of shit.  And David, stop being so over-emotional about your Stepford wife....she is counting down the days and I don't blame you for asking someone else out (and I still maintain it is not nearly as nefarious as it seems).  And never...ever...ever wear a salmon colored top that is one size too small.  Either hit the gym and stop eating Dominos in bed or buy XXL's in colors that don't accentuate your pastiness.

 

The Producers - Maybe its because I do not watch a lot of 'reality' television that I feel so passionate about this, but they are ruining this show.  You do have a great premise and all you would have to do is match these couples up and record it documentary style and you would have some fascinating television.  Everything seems staged and forced.  Just like Fathers Day (when only one of the six actually has a relationship with their father), these three couples 'decide' to throw a 4th of July party...right.  How about just seeing what they would REALLY do?  And these 'friends' seem like they were asking questions that they just pulled from the fishbowl.  But the biggest crime was last week 'teasing' Ashley's confrontation with David about inviting a girl for a drink, only to have the same teaser shown at the very end of the episode which I assume we will now see the resolution next week.  Honestly, that is just contempt for your audience and viewers....the cliffhanger already was shown with the tease the week before.  And if this is truly nothing as I suspect or if we do not find out HOW Ashley comes about this 'information' (of COURSE its from the producers), then this 'experiment' is even more of a sham than I already suspect.

Edited February 3, 2016 by jamblastx

[LakeGal]

I believe it said alot when Vanessa got upset and said she was going "home".  Isn't where her and Tres live suppose to be their home?  That remark had to sting for Tres.  I believe he really didn't understand why she was that upset.  She was jealous and upset he didn't gush about being in love with her when asked.  So she used the dog as an excuse to get upset with him.  He was confused because he thought the party went well.

 

I have given up feeling any sympathy for Ashley.  She signed up for the show and then refused to play by the rules.  She has told David how she feels and pulled away from him.  It was no longer his job to babysit her at their gathering.  If she was uncomfortable she could have invited one friend or relative to keep her company so she would not be alone with David's friends.  

Edited February 3, 2016 by LakeGal

[molshoop]

I wasn't very focused while watching last night.  Did Neil say that they should both sell their homes and buy a house together

to live in for the next several months?  Personally I would love a wrap around porch and a blue picket fence.

[TeapotWakeen]

SnarklePuss,

I would have told him "You have to help me - You have to stick with me and include me in your conversations" and stuff like that, not run in the other room and then complain he paid no attention to her.  If you want attention you have to seek it.  But she just didn't care so she put like nothing into it.

 

 

I agree with so much SnarklePuss has said. Forget whether Ashley has friends, invited them or not.... if Miss Thing wanted to spend some time with her husband at the party, she could have gone over to him. Think how thirsty David is for her approval --- if she had come out to him while he was on the grill, he would have probably followed her around like a puppy the rest of the night. But no, HE should read her mind and come to her -- despite her non-stop rejection of him. Why is no one saying to her, "Did you go find him at any point in the party?" I'm a huge introvert who married a huge extrovert. Just "touching base" with him during a party is often enough to get me through social situations... eye contact, a quick squeeze of the hand, invented questions ("where is the extra tin foil?") to quickly re-connect. But Ashley doesn't care enough to take action on her own. Walking out to the grill to see if he needs anything  isn't going to happen in her world, because then she can discount the whole party as a big downer because she was without her husband-she-pushes-away-nonstop all night.

 

Also, am I the only straight woman who had many straight male friends when single who did absolutely nothing inappropriate with them? I came into my marriage with straight male friends who I continued to spend time with one-on-one.... if Mr. Teapot had a problem with that, I would still be single. Vanessa was rude to Jenna, period.

[Vinyasa]

wasn't very focused while watching last night.  Did Neil say that they should both sell their homes and buy a house together

to live in for the next several months?

 

I though he said something about renting out their current houses?? Not sure. 

[qtpye]

I believe Ashley told her friends not to come.  Again,  she is putting no effort into this "experiment"  It also helped with the "David ignored poor widdle me to be with his friends" angle she was going for.

 

I do not think Ashley suffers from social anxiety, because I do, and she seems like she is posing.  Ashley is quiet, but as a nurse and social worker, she probably does not have social issues around other people.  In fact she is socially savvy enough to make herself look like a victim of David's expectations.  Her after show thoughts and attacks have been very calculated.  However, I am no expert and could be wrong.

 

We just had a party for twenty people and my husband could not help (he works very long hours) and we were to busy "hosting" to even realize we were not talking to each other the whole night.

 

Also, Ashley when I first got married, I had to move to my husband's state (again because of work) and was often surrounded by only his friends and family.  Sometimes it was a little lonely, but adults suck it up.  I knew my husband would not babysit me every second when I moved and it was up to me to adjust.

 

That was a move across state lines....this girl can't even get through one barbecue without David being by her side?  I would say holding her hand, but since she can not stand his touch, that is probably not what she wants.

 

Wow, Vanessa does not like Jenna.  This was the first time I saw her jealous and catty side.  She was possessively hanging all over Tres and definitely believes Jenna is secretly in love with him.  It's interesting that Vanessa is siding with Harry's beliefs in the whole Harry Met Sally "can hetro men and women be platonic friends debate".

 

In a positive note. not many people can pull off a pink v neck shirt with giant stars and white jeans, but Vanessa totally rocked that outfit.

 

I will actually say something nice about Ashley.  Her hair is amazing.  I usually do not like it when naturally curly haired girls straighten their hair, but her hair always looks so shiny and healthy.  It really is her best feature.  Otherwise, her face is rather pudgy and doughy.  She is like a cabbage patch kid who had been left out in the sun for too long. She is rather lucky that David finds her as gorgeous as he does.

 

Sam is definitely staying with Neal.  She has crunched the numbers and it is financially worth her while.  Also, she gets along well with Neal's friends.  It also seems like Neal is naturally attracted to loud boorish people.

 

She also began to realize that his quietness is his personality and not an indication that he does not like being around her.

Edited February 3, 2016 by qtpye

[mla40]

Tres would be in love by now if Vanessa still had her wedding hair and makeup on.

Sam isn't the worst, Ashley takes that prize but she comes a very close second.

[Drogo]

Folks,

 

There are a lot of forum participants who do not read Ashley's Twitter or Sam's Facebook page, and they don't want to know what they say on their various SM outlets.  This is why the MAFS forum has both episode threads and spoiler/SM threads. 

 

Posts about what the couples are doing on social media belong in the designated Social Media thread.  The thread you're on now is for commentary about what happened on television- in this episode. 

 

Your cooperation is sincerely appreciated.

 

 

Your MAFS Mods

[Empress1]

Vanessa's body language spoke volumes when she met Jenna. Arms folded, very closed off, and then she draped herself over Tres to stake her claim. Now, I'd bet that Tres and Jenna have hooked up at some point, but if he says they're friends now, they're friends. Unless and until they do something that crosses the line, Vanessa needs to relax. She definitely seems like the kind of person who bases her perception of romantic love on what she sees in rom-coms ("And they lived happily ever after!"), and life doesn't work like that.

 

I don't have many straight male friends either, at least not ones that I'm super-close to. (And I will admit to hooking up with one of my former guy friends - we were both single and after we hooked up, I wanted more and he didn't. We no longer talk. I met that guy through my then-roommate, a woman, who was truly just friends with him and a few other guys.) My closest friends are women and a gay man. But that doesn't mean I think it's impossible; it's just the way things are for me. 

 

I though he said something about renting out their current houses?? Not sure. 

Sam said she'd like for them to buy their own house together at some point (maybe within five years? I forget) but acknowledged that they'd need to find people to rent out their places first. I'd think Sam's roommate could cover the $600 Sam said her place cost, but maybe she can't.

 

Ashley looked SO stank when she was about to confront David about him asking a woman for drinks. He was going on and on about how happy he was and she was sitting there looking evil. But again, I think she loves that David allegedly did this, because it gives her an out and she can look like the wronged party. If she invited her friends and they didn't show, I have to wonder what's going on there. She had bridesmaids and we saw her meet up with a friend for drinks; none of them wanted to come? Are they fake friends?

[Neurochick]

Even though I wish Vanessa seriously grow up and stop reading all those romance novels and watching all those stupid rom coms, I do get her. I don’t think the experts are all that intelligent, maybe they should have had a black expert there too. 

 

Someone on this board said that black women have the same dating opportunities that black men have, I disagree.  Why?  Well, there is a beauty standard in this country, slim, large breasts, straight hair.  The closer you are to that ideal, the better your chances are with men. Like how David gushes over how beautiful Ashley is, physically she has a lot of the stuff considered beautiful, long straight hair, a slim figure.  There is a reason so many black women straighten their hair and wear waves, it’s considered more acceptable.  I even remember some OK Cupid study which showed that black women, even though they emailed men first, got the least responses from men, and I have to say with online dating, I’ll read the types of women, men want to be with and they’ll say every race/nationality, BUT a black woman. 

 

So on top of this, here comes Tres’ friend.  I couldn’t tell is she was white or mixed or what, but she is closer to the standard of beauty that is considered acceptable in the US.  Vanessa felt threatened because she wonders if Tres would leave her for someone who looked like his friend. 

 

I watch the show #black love that comes on after this one on FYI.  I find it interesting that there is a dark skinned black woman on the show who has half her head shaved and the other half she wears natural.  She is in a relationship with a white man who is NOT from the US.  That doesn’t surprise me, I have heard of many black women who have found love with non-American men who seem not to have an issue with darker skin and natural hair.  (personally, I’ve found that to be true as well.)

 

BTW, I don't think Ashley has social anxiety or anything like that.  I think she's just NOT into David.  She never found him attractive, so everything he does grosses her out.  She's turned off to him, pure and simple.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Neurochick

[Snarklepuss]

I do not think Ashley suffers from social anxiety, because I do, and she seems like she is posing.  Ashley is quiet, but as a nurse and social worker, she probably does not have social issues around other people.  In fact she is socially savvy enough to make herself look like a victim of David's expectations.  Her after show thoughts and attacks have been very calculated.  However, I am no expert and could be wrong.

 

If you're wrong, so am I because I was thinking this all the way to work today.  I don't buy it that Ashley is so full of social anxiety.  I think it's easy to mistake her lack of interest in getting to know David's friends plus her lack of communication skills (or desire to communicate) with David as social anxiety but it's not.  If she cared one bit she would be open with HIM about it in advance and I am sure that he would have cared and made some accommodations.  Social anxiety doesn't excuse her for not telling him about it and then complaining about it and blaming him after the fact, it's just not caring at all and expecting him to read her mind.  If she really had that much social anxiety she would never have signed up for this show knowing that it would put her on the spot 24/7 and in many social group situations.  She'd be cowering in a corner by now in the fetal position and not up to being on camera if she really had that much social anxiety.  Or she would have fled the party in tears saying, "I'm trying my best to be sociable but it's so hard for me" or whatever.  It's her intentions that are off, not social anxiety.  She is just not sincere.  So I don't feel sorry for her at all. 

[Booger666]

I still hate Sam.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Booger666

[Crazy Bird Lady]

I still feel the same about Tres. He isn’t ready for marriage. He says he misses his old lifestyle and I believe him. Yes Vanessa is insecure and her reaction (leaving ) was over the top but she has more then enough reasons to do so :

 

1) Tres didn’t want to get married and had to be convinced to sign up for the show

 

2) Was partying it up a few weeks before his wedding day

 

3) Financially irresponsible. Spends ridiculous amount of money in bars/possibly strip clubs

 

4) In her video diaries, she felt that Tres said the right things but didn’t actually act like he was physically attracted to her. I agree. I’ve been watching their body language since day one. This dude says great things about her but Vanessa is the one initiating physical contact (outside of sex) 9/10

 

5) He’s kind of full of shit in general. I feel like they as a couple and he as an individual is getting a very good edit. ...He prays randomly for his marriage ? Yeah. No you don’t.

 

6) This may be a very unpopular opinion but married men having single, attractive female friends is a huge red flag for me... I have a hard time believing that Tres and Jenna actually didn’t screw around at one point. The Jenna-Vanessa interaction gave me mistress-wife vibes. Jenna was clearly marking her territory. The way she sat on the couch next to Tres was inappropriate. 

 

 

Tres really impressed me in this episode.  I did feel he was genuine and he does seem to be trying.  And it was sad hearing him say he thought his wife would be the one person to never abandon him, and she did.  I normally like Vanessa, but she did not come off well in this episode at all.  She could barely contain her seething jealousy over Jenna.  And draping yourself all over your husband, trying to lay claim to him?  Nagl, girl.  

 

 

I see validity in both of these points of view. Sadly, There may not be a path for compromise here that will allow this couple to stay together.

 

Tres does seem to be trying - he just doesn't appear to have any empathy (or even tolerance) for Vanessa's insecurities.

Out of all 3 guys, Tres has the least compassion/understanding -- and probably the most insecure wife. He took no responsibility for that emphatic public denouncement of the idea when one of their friends said they were in love -or for blatantly cozying up to Jenna- [or for not going with Vanessa to take her dog to the vet-which was a side issue anyway] -- or for blowing all of that off and just leaving for the gym.

 

They finally talked it over, and Tres explained that it really hurt him to have his wife leave him (because other people in his life have abandoned him). Vanessa seemed stricken by that. Vanessa apologized, repeatedly. She acknowledged his pain and realized that she had been wrong to leave (even though it was just to sleep in her own apartment that one night)- and she was deeply touched by his explanation.

...But where was Vanessa's apology??

 

Moonxyz, your points are valid, but you left one out:

(7) When your newly-wed husband goes out without you and gets passed-out drunk, then gets annoyed at his wife because she didn't think that was cool -- it's a definite red flag.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Crazy Bird Lady

[VioletNevermind]

Ashley/David:  I thought Ashley had a lot of nerve to criticize David about how much time he spent outside during the party.  How does she think food gets cooked, drinks are served, and guests are kept happy without the host taking the lead role and making those things happen?  Ashley has a rude awakening coming when she becomes a real wife and mother if she thinks that hosting house parties is all about flitting around, chatting and laughing with friends while someone else keeps the food and drinks flowing.  I'm glad David noted the fact that he manned the grill solo for 90 minutes, in addition to the other things he had to take care of, while she hid in the kitchen.  Criticizing him over something so trivial (and basically forcing him to apologize) felt excessive, given the fact that she has made it no secret that she's not at all attracted to him.  I'm so completely over Ashley.  At first, I tried to make excuses for her, saying that she was just shy or was overwhelmed by being on TV.  I know I wouldn't deal with the latter very well at all, much less while trying to forge a marriage with a total stranger.  Ashley is just a mean, closed-off bitch, though.  I couldn't count how many times she was introduced to someone at the party and held out her hand awkwardly as the other person leaned in for a friendly hug.  As for David texting some woman, it's hard to get mad about it at this point.  He deserves a hell of a lot better than this public humiliation.  It's nice to see that his mother clearly raised him to be courteous and decent, but he's making a fool of himself when he says that he's still making an effort to convince Ashley to like him.  As I'm trying to teach my teenage daughter, politeness is awesome, but if someone consistently treats you like shit, it's totally okay to stand up for yourself and not be their friend anymore.

 

Tres/Vanessa: Girrrrl, back up off of that poor man.  When he was talking with his close female friend at the party, Vanessa was clearly jealous, hanging all over him and giving that woman the stink eye.  She might as well have peed on his leg like a cat marking its territory.  Vanessa is my second favorite person on the show (my heart belongs to Neil) and I think her marriage to Tres has lots of potential, but if she's not careful, she's going to smother her husband and drive him away.  I think that in time, Tres will make a fantastic husband, but he clearly has a couple more years of partying, single life, and growing up left in him.  Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it doesn't make for the best marriage with someone who is clearly insecure (although I don't blame her for it at all).  Vanessa would probably benefit from a year or so of intensive counseling to deal with her paternal abandonment issues if she hasn't already.  As someone who knows a little something about that issue, it really does affect every one of your relationships, and not for the better.

 

Neil/Sam: #FreeNeil.  Sam has zero interest in him as a friend, much less a husband.  It's written all over her face that she believes she's too good for him.  I think she has convinced herself that she's this quirky, terribly interesting, sugar glider-loving she-beast who's too intense for the "ordinary man" when, in reality, she's just another snob who desperately needs to invest in shorts that are just two freaking inches longer.  I'm sick to death of seeing so much of Sam's pasty-white upper inner thighs each week, but I digress.  She'll never see Neil's worth and he has too much integrity and decency to call her on it outright.  I hated that she called attention to the fact that he didn't do much talking during their party.  Everyone isn't cut out to be the social butterfly of every gathering.  Neil clearly has friends who value him and realize that about him.  The sooner he's away from this socially inept cretin, the better.

Edited February 3, 2016 by SuzyLee

[bichonblitz]

Ashley, grow the fuck up, you're just counting the days until this is over. Why do you care if David asked a girl out, you don't even like him.

Also, why does she care if David didn't pay enough attention to her at the party? Normally, she doesn't want him any where near her. There is no pleasing this skank. Ever. 

[Waterlilly]

If Tres isn't ready for marriage, Vanessa isn't helping change that. There is the real world and Vanessa's world.

David is so confused with Miss Don't touch me I need your attention. Most of the men I know would have ignored her by now too. I think David just wanted a happy day and Ashley is jealous of his close, large group of friends.

Neil is so damn cute. I think they were closer at this point than is being shown and that Sam wants more than a hug. He was so funny on those silks.

Can we just not have Jamie Teeth interview anyone.

[Vinyasa]

His "my wife" this and "my wife" that also gets on my last nerve.

 

Ha! He really wants his "wife"!

 

Ashley says "I'm trying to make this work, I'm wearing my ring and I'm here everyday" but she hardly speaks to the guy.

 

And now we were left hanging about him trying to or did have drinks with a girl. How much longer are they going to drag this out?

[bichonblitz]

OMG David positively gleeful at the success of the party, going on and on about how his "wife" was so wonderful, enjoying herself, blah blah. Then cut to Ashley complaining about everything. David is delusional. They are on completely different planets. I hope he did have drinks with who ever he texted. Hope he had great sex with her, too. 

Sidenote: David should never wear a tank top. I don't like them on any men but especially on his pale, pasty, doughy body. No, no , no. 

[butterbean1]

My DVR cut off right when Ashely told David she got a message that he asked someone out and he was just sitting there when it cut off.  Can anyone fill me in on what happened?  How did he respond?

[Vinyasa]

Sidenote: David should never wear a tank top. I don't like them on any men but especially on his pale, pasty, doughy body. No, no , no.

 

That should be more than a "sidenote". It should be mandatory! NEVER wear a tank top. Don't even own one.

 

I kept looking at him last night and thinking how would he look without the strange beard, a few less pounds and a little spray tan?? Anyone else doing that?

[Crazy Bird Lady]

My DVR cut off right when Ashely told David she got a message that he asked someone out and he was just sitting there when it cut off.  Can anyone fill me in on what happened?  How did he respond?

 

It was just a tease for the next episode --they didn't show David's response.

Vinyasa, I'd be breaking the rules to respond to your comment here -- but check out the "spoiler" thread if you want to find out why David was 20 lbs or so overweight during the show, and what he looks like now. 

[Waterlilly]

Ashley is more abusive than Sam because she hides it behind a sweet sinister mask. Her main goal is to keep David off balance, make him look bad and think it is his fault. You can almost see the wheels turning as she considers her next move. Ashley is disappointed in her match and someone has to pay, she can' t attack the experts or the producers so David is the target. You can see the confusion on that poor mans face. He may not be everyone's type but obviously he is a good friend, that is a pretty good foundation to build a marriage on. Sucks for Ashley that she will never know that. There is no editing that can paint her as anything other than what she is. She even looks evil sometimes.

Vanessa is so beautiful and has a killer body, although sometimes I don't agree with her choice for certain occasions. Tres is GQ and knows how to dress. They are a stunning couple. They both have some maturing to do and over time could grow together if they try. I think Tres was trying to be funny with the love comment and was correct, it is a big word. There was plenty of alcohol flowing and his bros were there, not the best time for the L word. I just wish that Vanessa wouldn't shut down. Guys aren't very good at figuring out what is going on with us.

[cecig75]

 

 

His outfit at that party, that aint gonna turn on the ladies!

 

I agree! His personality will win them over, but put on a different shirt David!

 

Ashley is pathetically painful to watch. I cannot think of anything positive to say about her...wait I'm pullin an Ashley now ha!

 

I'm starting to worry about Vanessa and Tres. Although I don't quite agree with her on the whole men and women can't be just friends, I do think Tres' friend Jenna was giving her some shady looks. My best friend is a heterosexual male and my husband has never questioned our friendship! In fact, they've become better buds! Vanessa, Tres wants to make this work...don't run away girl!

 

Sam and Neil seem to be getting closer. I just hope she truly appreciates him for who he is and I want her to brush her hair!!!

[JapMo]

It's always been evident that Ashley is not attracted to David, but we all have commented about the fact she doesn't even try.  And it's not like he's a troll or anything.  Maybe the reason Ashley is soooo completely and totally turned off is more than just a physical connection.  Maybe from Day 1, she saw him as low rent.  Not in her league socially, physically or financially.  Things she's said about never hosting a party...maybe in her circle they hire people to do that.  The fact he's never met any of her friends.  A person who feels she married beneath herself would NOT want her friends to meet the schlub.  David is a great guy but he's beer and pretzels all the way.  

 

Regarding Tres and Vanessa, I think when Tres said that to her about being abandoned, Vanessa really saw the error of her ways.  I hope.  Because I think these two have the best chance for happiness.  I laughed at how clueless poor Tres is (like any man) when he made that comment about love and instantly saw Vanessa shut down.  He's like, what did I do?  Oh Tres...you are going to learn through the years that when you see THAT look......you just did something that is going to put you majorly in the dog house. 

 

Last night, the scene was being set for Sam and Neil to somehow transform into the happily married couple by the time 6 weeks are up.  I don't buy it for a minute.  Sam could never be truly happy with Neil.  He's way too passive a personality.  Neil on the other hand could probably be content with just about anyone, his standards are so low.

[Vinyasa]

think Tres was trying to be funny with the love comment and was correct, it is a big word. There was plenty of alcohol flowing and his bros were there, not the best time for the L word.

 

Oh, I agree. I really like Tres and think he has a great sense of humor. This season is so dull, I'm sure if the producers are trying to create drama.

[cinsays]

  Well, this was not a very enjoyable episode. And when I walk away thinking Sam and Neil have the best chance of making it, something is definitely wrong.

  Vanessa will never be comfortable with Tres having gal buddies.  She will always wonder if there is more going on than friendship.  I disliked him in the beginning, but he has really grown on me and I think he is really trying to make this work. I don't think he did anything wrong in his reaction to her taking the pet to the vet. He said to let him know how it went, what they discovered.  The dog was not on death's door so why was it such a big deal for her to just go and get him treated.   And trained. 

  Sam seems to be warming up to Neil a bit, but I am afraid he is going to have to always keep his behavior in check in order to not upset her.  That is not a fun way to go through life.

  I can relate to Ashley's discomfort at the party. I am ok with close friends, but I have never been able to handle parties or large groups, especially of total strangers.  And these were people who were important because they were her husband's friends. I agree with one of the other posters that David could have urged her out of the kitchen and into the mix for a few minutes to make it easier for her.

  I also wonder if her friends did not come because they were shy and self-conscious like her and did not want to be shown on tv.  If they have seen prior seasons, or any reality show actually, they know that the producers want to show drama and manipulate events.  They should have persuaded her not to be on the show.

  Still hating the experts and wish they didn't waste time with their opinion pieces. 

 

[bichonblitz]

I kept looking at him last night and thinking how would he look without the strange beard, a few less pounds and a little spray tan?? Anyone else doing that?

Yes! He looks really nice when he has a button down shirt and tailored pants. So does Trey. 

[Paddywagon]

Did anyone else think it was a burn for David to give Ashley a cupcake for the 1-month anniversary gift? Then he specifically told her he bought it for her. I might be reading too much into it but he seemed to be showing her what it's like for someone to genuinely buy something for someone rather than dig out a smashed box from a backpack.

[HumblePi]

I couldn't help thinking while watching this episode as to why these people were matched together. Tres and Vanessa would be almost a perfect match if it wasn't for the fact that Vanessa seems to have a bipolar personality at times. She was hugging, rubbing up on and kissing Tres in front of their friends and especially Jenna then the next day she puts on her mopey face and leaves Tres because he didn't show enough concern for her dog Lola? She turned out to be much more high maintenance than I thought she was. She has abandonment issues, we get it. But Tres had a mother that abandoned him not once, but twice. Having Vanessa just leave so casually saying she wanted to stay at her apartment was selfish and petty. It crossed my mind that Tres and his best friend Jenna would probably make a much better couple

 

What can I say about Ashley that hasn't been said? She's another diva and needs attention all the time. I see Ashley as a symbol of the perception that some people might have of her generation. She's self-absorbed, needy, and selfish. She said she felt "just like any other guest" at their party, "not like a wife". Ashley was cooking, mixing, frosting, washing bowls, fixing drinks, cleaning off counter tops and at the same time acting as hostess by entertaining guests in the kitchen. She may not have realized it, but she was being treated exactly like a wife, that's what a wife does. David said that none of her friends came to their party, but I honestly don't think Ashley has any friends. I think If David asked someone out for a drink that I really can't blame him. The only thing I would have done differently in that case is tell Ashley that he's going out with someone for a drink and some laughs. He's sure not getting them with her. I can see Ashley being the type of woman that wants people to come to her, to work hard at getting her acceptance and into a comfort zone. I can also see Ashley as the type that when someone gives up on her and stops even trying, that she's going to be a much different person once she realizes that she makes it too hard for people and to put that much work into her. After a while they give up because they don't care anymore. After five weeks of marriage she won't let him kiss her and says she's not attracted to him. Why would she be jealous that another woman does?

 

I have nothing to say about Samantha and Neil. They won't make it as a married couple but they might be able to remain friends.

[qtpye]

I sometimes think Vanessa might have been better matched to someone who is not as conventionally attractive and charming as Tres.  That guy is always going to have women in Atlanta swarming around him and you have to be very secure to deal with that (which clearly Vanessa is not, judging by her reaction to Jenna).

 

It's always been evident that Ashley is not attracted to David, but we all have commented about the fact she doesn't even try.  And it's not like he's a troll or anything.  Maybe the reason Ashley is soooo completely and totally turned off is more than just a physical connection.  Maybe from Day 1, she saw him as low rent.  Not in her league socially, physically or financially.  Things she's said about never hosting a party...maybe in her circle they hire people to do that.  The fact he's never met any of her friends.  A person who feels she married beneath herself would NOT want her friends to meet the schlub.  David is a great guy but he's beer and pretzels all the way.

 

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head.  It is not so much Ashley finds David physically unattractive.  Truthfully, many women will give a guy a shot if he has a good personality.  It is more too the point of  she thinks she is too good for him or out of his league.  I remember how proud he was of having her as a wife and could not wait to show her off.  Ashley on the other hand wants to keep David far away from her friends because she is embarrassed about having him on her arm.

 

Instead of being up front about her feelings, she is trying to paint David as a bad guy that he is not, so she can gracefully exit, asap.

 

Don't worry Ashley, after witnessing your behavior on this show, no respectable man in Atlanta will go near you ( I grew up in Atlanta, so that is why I mention it a lot).

[stuckin60s]

I rewatched some of last nights episode and want to add a few thoughts

 

1. Found more respect for Tres.  He stood up, asked questions and spoke his mind.  very good foundation for a good relationship

 

  2 Sam - she likes his friends because they are crass and vulgar like her.  When Neil was asked if it still wanted to be married and she y lled over to tell the truth and be frank - he said he was glad to be married.  his friend asked if it was hard he said it was difficult of course, beyond.  ( thought the beyond was telling).  She even mentioned one of the reasons they were matched was because they were both nice people. I wonder what she thinks about herself after watching the show?  Also on the previews they are in a craft shop.  One thing Neil tells her is that he doesn't like his face touched.  She later rubs her hands all over his face laughing

 

3. Ashley - her TH said she was alone during the party. She spoke with the others even hugged them.  I saw THEM in the kitchen with others, when a group were standing in the kitchen and David invited them upstairs to look around, she was standing with the group and didn't go. David commented that she seemed perfectly at ease, so he was keeping an eye on her.  She commented that David was acting like single David, "you are married, you should act differently".  Then she decides she was alone. She is just looking for things to complain about.  Her straight dull face staring at him while he was talking shows she has no soul

 

[floridaskixx]

Even though I wish Vanessa seriously grow up and stop reading all those romance novels and watching all those stupid rom coms, I do get her. I don’t think the experts are all that intelligent, maybe they should have had a black expert there too.

Someone on this board said that black women have the same dating opportunities that black men have, I disagree. Why? Well, there is a beauty standard in this country, slim, large breasts, straight hair. The closer you are to that ideal, the better your chances are with men. Like how David gushes over how beautiful Ashley is, physically she has a lot of the stuff considered beautiful, long straight hair, a slim figure. There is a reason so many black women straighten their hair and wear waves, it’s considered more acceptable. I even remember some OK Cupid study which showed that black women, even though they emailed men first, got the least responses from men, and I have to say with online dating, I’ll read the types of women, men want to be with and they’ll say every race/nationality, BUT a black woman.

So on top of this, here comes Tres’ friend. I couldn’t tell is she was white or mixed or what, but she is closer to the standard of beauty that is considered acceptable in the US. Vanessa felt threatened because she wonders if Tres would leave her for someone who looked like his friend.

I watch the show #black love that comes on after this one on FYI. I find it interesting that there is a dark skinned black woman on the show who has half her head shaved and the other half she wears natural. She is in a relationship with a white man who is NOT from the US. That doesn’t surprise me, I have heard of many black women who have found love with non-American men who seem not to have an issue with darker skin and natural hair. (personally, I’ve found that to be true as well.)

BTW, I don't think Ashley has social anxiety or anything like that. I think she's just NOT into David. She never found him attractive, so everything he does grosses her out. She's turned off to him, pure and simple.

I've been seeing a lot of your posts relate to African American men don't find some black women attractive and I completely see what you're saying cause it's sadly true sometimes. But as an African American female myself, you cannot catagorize all black men in the same boat. I highly doubt that the situation had anything to do with Jenna being white (Vanessa has said she dated white men so I don't see what the problem would be). It's just kind of offensive that you keep bringing this race thing up.

[HumblePi]

I've been seeing a lot of your posts relate to African American men don't find some black women attractive and I completely see what you're saying cause it's sadly true sometimes. But as an African American female myself, you cannot catagorize all black men in the same boat. I highly doubt that the situation had anything to do with Jenna being white (Vanessa has said she dated white men so I don't see what the problem would be). It's just kind of offensive that you keep bringing this race thing up.

I haven't personally read any comments here regarding race. I've been watching this from the start with both eyes only seeing one color in these couples. I don't see any of them as white or black, I only see the chemistry or lack of it. I thought last night that Tres and Jenna would really make an amazing couple. Jenna didn't seem as judgmental and shallow as Vanessa came off. They both have a 'love' for each other to begin with and it wouldn't take a whole lot of effort on either part to get that feeling to go much deeper and stronger I never even thought about whether Jenna was white or black and it wouldn't matter either way. The three of them are all attractive, articulate and sincere people in my book. By the way, I'm a (very) old white woman and I think Tres is hotter than fire and it's not only his 'cuteness' that I find attractive it's his maturity, sincerity and intelligence.