S01.E15: Diagnosis of Exclusion

[thewhiteowl]

The doctors are questioned following a violent incident inside the hospital that leaves two doctors gravely injured. Neal and Christa make their relationship to the next level after officially disclosing their romantic relationship to HR.

 

 

[anlinn]

"Neal and Christa Make Their relationship to the next level", I wonder what it would be .... hmmmm

[Happy Harpy]

"Neal and Christa Make Their relationship to the next level", I wonder what it would be .... hmmmm

I wonder...is it tomorrow yet?

[anlinn]

I wonder...is it tomorrow yet?

Yeah, it'll be tomorrow in Wednesday. Although it will be Thursday for me ;)

[Happy Harpy]

Sneak peek for episode 15 (a featurette about the new doc, with interviews of B.Kodjoe and Raza Jaffrey).

http://www.spoilersguide.com/code-black/episode-15-diagnosis-of-exclusion-sneak-peek-1/

 

I.can't.wait.

[Brattinella]

Okay, this is the last time I watch this crap. 

[irisheyes]

Wow, Angus has a dark side. And, he and Malaya have such a sweet friendship.

[SnoGirl]

Wow. I was sort of surprised they gave up Gina's death before we saw her die on the table. It was such a quick spoil, but one I wish they had waited to do.

I, however, wish the promo monkeys hadn't spoiled Angus' brother (Andrew? Michael?) saying "you can't tell anyone what happened." As soon as Malaya was attacked, I suspected Angus was the one who found her and had something to do with how the attacker looked when brought to Center Stage. I was wrong, I thought Angus stabbed him in the neck. I guess that would have been a bit too dark for him.

I don't know what I would have done in that situation, but I'm not surprised Angus pulled his hands away when the guy was calling Malaya a bitch. What an awful situation. I'm relieved the attacker died, but I'm anxious that a video tape is going to be found of Angus not helping him. I hope Code Black stays away from that storyline and just deals with the grief that comes with such an awful attack.

Edited February 4, 2016 by SnoGirl

[statsgirl]

Did anyone enjoy that panel beating up on the ER docs?  Because I sure didn't.  Not to mention, they didn't even try to be realistic.

 

I know surgeons can be arrogant jerks (not all) but that one was a bad stereotype.  Also, what kind of penny-anny hospital is this where there is only one surgeon around?

[Happy Harpy]

Phew.

 

I didn't expect Malaya to be hurt because of the promo showing her rescue. I thought she'd be safe, so I was still a little surprised that she was the second doctor. I don't think that anything could have deterred Gordon from attacking her, but when he started going away after she told him she was gay, and she called him back/tried to soothe his feelings, I did think "Nooo! Why? Let him go and run, girl!". So I could see what she talked about when she said she was too polite -not saying it was her fault in any way, nope, nope, nope; but that's the kind of innocuous thing you blame yourself for when you're an innocent victim and try to make sense. It's a detail of the writing that I liked.

 

I also like the Angus/Malaya friendship way better when it's written like this week. They are sweet, indeed. 

I don't see how Angus is going to be able to keep such a secret for himself. It's going to eat him from inside. Mike is a great brother, and I hope that Angus will understand how lucky he is to have him.

 

They made the parallel between Mike and Leanne more clearly, and I think it's definitely the good angle for me to accept him as the new residency boss.

 

What I liked about the panel and investigation is how it allowed different friendships to reappear. I realize it's been a while since I got a Leanne/Christa scene, and I miss them. I also loved how Leanne had everyone's back, while showing more diplomacy than I expected her to. I do like her with the HR guy, there's good chemistry here imo and there's respect for each other's abilities so it makes it as interesting  to me when they butt heads as when they're on the same wavelength -if there's a season 2, by the end of it I could like Leanne with the HR guy.

 

Campbell is an arrogant jerk, but the actor has charisma so I'm OK with him for now. I'm still digging the Mike/Neal friendship, and it's true that having a foe makes them all the more bros.

That said, I'm going to enjoy Hot Shot having to page Neal every two seconds at No Surgeon Available Hospital.

 

So, if I understood correctly, Mario pretended that he didn't care about Heather, so she did sleep with her attending to pretend that she didn't care either, but she cares about him, too, so she broke it off with the attending. Well, at least, it isn't a triangle anymore.

 

I'm glad that Christa, in spite of her obvious emotion, was able to keep it in check while on center stage.

 

I really can't have even a week of honeymoon, can I? I would have expected Christa to be more wary of the HR form, considering how their relationship went so far (their reactions after the drinks, for example). I also understand why Christa was upset, with everything she had on her plate, and I liked that she needed to sort things out on her own. But I have the feeling that either some scenes didn't make the cut, either it was rushed in order to create drama and I'm not too fond of it.

I did like Neal giving the form to the panel in the end, and Big Sister's little smile. Yet, I wish there had been one moment of levity with Neal/Christa together, and I missed it all the more in an episode as bleak as this one.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[twoods]

I don't think I took a breath during the cold opening. Too much craziness! And definitely didn't expect Malaya to get stabbed, or Angus watching him bleed out. What a terrible situation to be put in. I did like that they showed the nursing staff grieving for Gina, and not just the doctors.

Wasn't expecting that CEO and Gina were in a relationship. No wonder he was harsh during the interrogation. What I'm wondering is why the surgeon didn't get reemed for not going down earlier, or the hospital in general for only having one trauma surgeon on call! I know it's a hand wave to cause more drama but it's ridiculous. I also like the actor who plays the surgeon so I hope he's not a one note douche bag.

Oh Christa- you and Neal could have talked about the HR stuff at home. She sprung it on him then had a fit at his reaction. I think everyone should have a Neal (and a Mike) in their life.

Mike really is the best brother ever. Plus, I absolutely adore the Angus/Malaya friendship.

[silverbell]

Oh Christa- you and Neal could have talked about the HR stuff at home. She sprung it on him then had a fit at his reaction. I think everyone should have a Neal (and a Mike) in their life.

 

If I am not mistaken Gina gave Christa an ultimatum to hand in the papers so she did not have time to discuses it at home. I was a bit surprised about neals reaction cause last episode neal was the one who brought up HR, and Christa is the one who said they should keep in quite, and in this episode their reactions was opposite .  

[Happy Harpy]

If I am not mistaken Gina gave Christa an ultimatum to hand in the papers so she did not have time to discuses it at home. I was a bit surprised about neals reaction cause last episode neal was the one who brought up HR, and Christa is the one who said they should keep in quite, and in this episode their reactions was opposite .  

Yep. It's a double-edged sword. The sudden change doesn't make much sense, but suddenly, Christa's "insecurities" (mentioned in the description for episode 16) have a basis. I really didn't see how she could be insecure, now if she thinks he isn't ready and feels an obligation because of the form, well...

I think it's a Big Misunderstanding because of the absence of POVs here, especially on Neal's part.

 

Wasn't expecting that CEO and Gina were in a relationship. No wonder he was harsh during the interrogation.

I hope that if he ever questions people making emotional decisions, Leanne will remind him "gently" that while the investigation on the director's death was warranted, it was also convenient for him on a personal level.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[CG28]

 

I really can't have even a week of honeymoon, can I? I would have expected Christa to be more wary of the HR form, considering how their relationship went so far (their reactions after the drinks, for example). I also understand why Christa was upset, with everything she had on her plate, and I liked that she needed to sort things out on her own. But I have the feeling that either some scenes didn't make the cut, either it was rushed in order to create drama and I'm not too fond of it.

I did like Neal giving the form to the panel in the end, and Big Sister's little smile. Yet, I wish there had been one moment of levity with Neal/Christa together, and I missed it all the more in an episode as bleak as this one.

 

 

If I am not mistaken Gina gave Christa an ultimatum to hand in the papers so she did not have time to discuses it at home. I was a bit surprised about neals reaction cause last episode neal was the one who brought up HR, and Christa is the one who said they should keep in quite, and in this episode their reactions was opposite .  

 

Yes and Yes to both of these comments! I know its great and all that in the end Neal signed the form and turned it in but I couldn't help but feel this was not the best episode for either of them. I think they were both written out of character from what we have seen so far. Last episode Neal was talking all about HR and this episode he seemed very hesitant. Not sure what his problem was. Now, Christa I think only jumped on the bandwagon to inform HR because she was pressured to by Gina so I may can overlook that. 

 

However, my biggest problem with them in this episode is it came off as Christa was some love struck school girl who could concentrate on nothing else but Neal and was pushing for a relationship while Neal seemed unsure. Which up to this point has been more or less the opposite. He is the one who asked her out, fairly early on might I add. And then when she couldn't make it asked her to stay for breakfast a couple episodes later. He was the one doing most of the flirting, telling her she was beautiful, and flipping out anytime she was in any type of danger. While she was the one letting him know that if he thought her mind was on anything other than being the best doctor she could be he needed to reconsider. Where did those two people go???? I don't know, maybe its because of how crammed full this episode was and therefore scenes seemed to go missing that would farther explain everything between them. I am just hoping that in the end he didn't sign the forms because he felt pressured into saying they were in a relationship and wanted to be a gentlemen since they had already slept together. Which is exactly why I wish the relationship talk would have taken place prior to the sex. However, I do have to say, him constantly thinking about her and the way he stared at her with eyes full of love when she was sitting down in the hallway having her moment was awesome. And I adored Leanne's smile when he disclosed his and Christa's relationship. Just really hoping for some happy, reassuring moments between them next week!

 

As far as the other parts of the episode. Wow!! One of my favorite parts of it all was Leanne being so protecting of her emergency department and her new residents especially. That board was no joke! Also, I really, really wanted someone to punch the surgical attending, no matter how wrong it may be. Everything about him rubbed me the wrong way.

 

Poor Gina and Malaya. I knew Malaya was going to end up blaming herself and I loved mama's speech to her. I also loved the scenes between her and Angus. I have grown to really like their friendship. I don't know where the show is going with Angus's dilemma and while I know what he did was wrong, I can't say I blamed him, especially in the moment.

 

Now, I had some reservations last week about Mike taking Leanne's job and they actually worsened this week. Even though it wasn't said, we all know that Neal could have never had the job due to fact that he can't be Christa's boss. But somehow its okay for Mike to be his brother's boss? Not to mention we have already seen him cover for Angus once when he first arrived and then tonight he did it again. While I love their big brother/little brother relationship, it just seems like that situation could be a recipe for disaster as well. Guess time will tell.

 

Looking forward to next week!

[silverbell]

 

However, my biggest problem with them in this episode is it came off as Christa was some love struck school girl who could concentrate on nothing else but Neal and was pushing for a relationship while Neal seemed unsure. Which up to this point has been more or less the opposite. He is the one who asked her out, fairly early on might I add. And then when she couldn't make it asked her to stay for breakfast a couple episodes later. He was the one doing most of the flirting, telling her she was beautiful, and flipping out anytime she was in any type of danger. While she was the one letting him know that if he thought her mind was on anything other than being the best doctor she could be he needed to reconsider. Where did those two people go???? I don't know, maybe its because of how crammed full this episode was and therefore scenes seemed to go missing that would farther explain everything between them. I am just hoping that in the end he didn't sign the forms because he felt pressured into saying they were in a relationship and wanted to be a gentlemen since they had already slept together. Which is exactly why I wish the relationship talk would have taken place prior to the sex. However, I do have to say, him constantly thinking about her and the way he stared at her with eyes full of love when she was sitting down in the hallway having her moment was awesome. And I adored Leanne's smile when he disclosed his and Christa's relationship. Just really hoping for some happy, reassuring moments between them next week!

Actually I thought last episode he started getting hesitant about the relationship, because when he asked Christa if she has any regrets she said no, when she asked him the same thing he did not actually answer the question ( he did the same with Leanne a few episodes back) and talked about HR and what other people would say.

but I do think there are missing scenes between them. 

[Happy Harpy]

As far as the other parts of the episode. Wow!! One of my favorite parts of it all was Leanne being so protecting of her emergency department and her new residents especially. That board was no joke! Also, I really, really wanted someone to punch the surgical attending, no matter how wrong it may be. Everything about him rubbed me the wrong way.

One moment I especially appreciated was Leanne/Mario. For the first time, I saw her approve of him as a person. I felt that she saw the progress he made since he was that lone wolf she didn't like, and accepted him as one of "Daddy's kids".

 

Actually I thought last episode he started getting hesitant about the relationship, because when he asked Christa if she has any regrets she said no, when she asked him the same thing he did not actually answer the question ( he did the same with Leanne a few episodes back) and talked about HR and what other people would say.

I hope not, because I agree with , he was the one doing the pursuing in the first place and it would make me think less of him. He didn't seem the kind of guy who would seduce a resident, less on the spur of the moment -especially someone who like Christa was left by her husband- if he wasn't serious...no more than Christa seemed the kind of woman who would push for commitment.

So for me, either it's just retcon/bad writing, either the writers have an ace up their sleeve, are just playing with our (my) poor nerves and the POVs will explain it all.

I'm afraid now that the writers might hurt Christa and Neal as characters (I'm not even talking about their relationship) in order to prop the new girl, starting next week.

 

I'm curious. Will someone come down hard on Angus, or do someone dislike him now, for killing a patient because he couldn't keep his emotions in check?

Edited February 4, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[BooksRule]

Good episode, although I'm worried that (as someone stated above) there is some video that will show Angus letting that guy bleed until security showed up.  However, I'm wondering about how the staff reacting to Gina's death was portrayed.  I expected shock, horror and that people would be upset about someone they knew dying in such a harsh manner.  But, people were crying and acting like she was someone they had known for years and that everyone was really close to her.  I never got the impression that she was friends with anyone (except the CEO, apparently) or that anyone particularly liked her.  Not that they shouldn't grieve, but I just questioned all of the sobbing.  (Maybe people would realistically react this way--thankfully, I've never had to find out in real life.)

[Granny58]

On a realistic note, I think this episode was useful in remembering IF YOU FEEL WEIRD GETTING IN OR OFF AN ELEVATOR WITH SOMEBODY - DON'T!   

[Happy Harpy]

However, I'm wondering about how the staff reacting to Gina's death was portrayed.  I expected shock, horror and that people would be upset about someone they knew dying in such a harsh manner.  But, people were crying and acting like she was someone they had known for years and that everyone was really close to her.  I never got the impression that she was friends with anyone (except the CEO, apparently) or that anyone particularly liked her.  Not that they shouldn't grieve, but I just questioned all of the sobbing.  (Maybe people would realistically react this way--thankfully, I've never had to find out in real life.)

I agree about Gina not being close to anyone in particular, and that's certainly how I felt personally. I wasn't devastated by her death, even though it horrified me, so I wondered for a second about the characters' reactions aside from the doctors who worked on her.

But in the end, I found it realistic because I think it went beyond Gina as a "person". It was also about what they went through together, imo. When a tragedy affects a group you're part of, even if you aren't touched in your flesh or don't lose someone truly close to you, it creates a deep feeling or empathy and togetherness that make even strangers "one of yours".

I also think that a sudden and violent death, and especially of someone who is young, is always a shock. When I was a teen, a girl who was in my class died in a car accident. I wasn't particularly close to her, we were distant bordering friendly, I just worked with her in lab the previous year. Afterwards, her best friends mourned her for weeks and months, whereas after a while the others like me were "just" sad when we had a reminder of her. But when the teacher told us? Under the shock, I sobbed as if I had lost my best friend, probably more than I did for my own grandparents. Everyone did, even the couple of people who didn't like her, and we were all sincere. One of us was gone.

[Ohwell]

I think I'm gonna have to bail on this show.  There's just too much frenzy going on and I'm even getting tired of some of the characters I like, such as Mama and Angus and Dr. Highhair.   I'm sick of Leanne and Mario and Heather and Malaya.  I wish they had killed her off instead of Gina, who I thought was a more interesting character.  Plus, now that we know that she and hot hospital administrator had a thing, I think that would have been a more interesting relationship.  

 

And what, pray tell, happened to Dr. Guthrie?  Where is he?  

 

I might do a drive by now and then if there's nothing else I want to see in that time slot, but for the most part, I'm out.

[CoyoteBlue]

On a realistic note, I think this episode was useful in remembering IF YOU FEEL WEIRD GETTING IN OR OFF AN ELEVATOR WITH SOMEBODY - DON'T!   

Seriously, I've been cringing about how she handled that guy from the beginning. Not respecting her personal space, following her into restricted areas, not listening to her when she told him to leave..and she just thinks he's a harmless accident-prone guy. In that elevator, i would probably fake needing to get off after him and if he didn't leave on "his" floor, ask the other people in the elevator to escort me to a security station. Instead she went for the "isolate myself" option.

[twoods]

At 5am (Gina's time of death was 5:43) probably there were more oncall but the would be further away than Campbell.

Nope. For a level one trauma there should be more than one surgeon in house. Just ridiculousness. And now Neal can't perform surgeries so more patients will get compromised since the hospital can't staff properly. I wish that the hospital would get in trouble for this crap and not the doctors.

[Notwisconsin]

So far they've killed off, what?, six major characters. Is this a miniseries or something, there are only a couple of more episodes. Will they have a mostly new cast?

[Happy Harpy]

And what, pray tell, happened to Dr. Guthrie?  Where is he? 

Probably on the bus to Oldtown, along with Dr.Taylor. Boo.

[CG28]

Actually I thought last episode he started getting hesitant about the relationship, because when he asked Christa if she has any regrets she said no, when she asked him the same thing he did not actually answer the question ( he did the same with Leanne a few episodes back) and talked about HR and what other people would say.

but I do think there are missing scenes between them. 

 

Yes, I wasn't too fond of him not actually saying he had no regrets either. Especially because Neal seems to have a thing where he doesn't directly answer a question if he is afraid of how the other person will take the answer. Instead he deflects, which is what he seemed to do in that scene. However, I will lose a lot of respect for him if that is the case because that would mean after waking up with regrets he then still went on to go for the very implied round two with Christa before work and that would not only ruin his character for me but, imo, would be very out of character for him.

 

Good episode, although I'm worried that (as someone stated above) there is some video that will show Angus letting that guy bleed until security showed up.  However, I'm wondering about how the staff reacting to Gina's death was portrayed.  I expected shock, horror and that people would be upset about someone they knew dying in such a harsh manner.  But, people were crying and acting like she was someone they had known for years and that everyone was really close to her.  I never got the impression that she was friends with anyone (except the CEO, apparently) or that anyone particularly liked her.  Not that they shouldn't grieve, but I just questioned all of the sobbing.  (Maybe people would realistically react this way--thankfully, I've never had to find out in real life.)

 

I do agree that no one seemed that close to Gina. But I think their reactions stem more from the tragic way she died. If she had some medical problem that caused her to collapse and then die there in the ER, I think the reaction while still sad would have been less emotional and traumatic for everyone. Not to mention you have got the fact that Christa literally found her in a pool of her own blood, which no matter how much you may not see eye to eye with someone, that is something no one should ever have to experience. And then Mike, Mario, Christa, Heather, Neal, the various nurses, etc. all had a part in working very hard to try to save her, only to watch her die. That effects you. Honestly I felt the board should have told each one of them that counseling was available should they need it.

 

So far they've killed off, what?, six major characters. Is this a miniseries or something, there are only a couple of more episodes. Will they have a mostly new cast?

 

Just curious, what 6 major characters are you counting that they have killed off? The only ones I can remember them killing off at all is Carla and now Gina, both of which were recurring characters only. Now they have had some others come and go like Dr. Taylor (does anyone else feel he isn't coming back?), and Dr Cole Guthrie but they weren't killed off.

[secnarf]

Seriously, I've been cringing about how she handled that guy from the beginning. Not respecting her personal space, following her into restricted areas, not listening to her when she told him to leave..and she just thinks he's a harmless accident-prone guy. In that elevator, i would probably fake needing to get off after him and if he didn't leave on "his" floor, ask the other people in the elevator to escort me to a security station. Instead she went for the "isolate myself" option.

I think everyone else in the elevator was getting off at B4 though, so if she didn't get off then (where that guy said he was getting off), there would have been nobody else left in the elevator with her if the guy had stayed back too. I probably wouldn't have left the elevator at all, and faked forgetting something in her locker or something (turns out she actually DID forget her phone). I probably would have had my phone in my hand at that point as well, so if I was her and had forgot my phone, that would have been a reminder anyways.

There are a million things she could have done differently that may or may not have led to a different outcome, but even if she made some retrospectively unwise decisions (which is completely debatable), she's not responsible for his actions or his obsession with her.

 

So far they've killed off, what?, six major characters. Is this a miniseries or something, there are only a couple of more episodes. Will they have a mostly new cast?

When did this happen?

[Shannon L.]

I had a feeling that one of the brothers let Gordon die and that would be the big reveal. 

 

I think the writers of this episode did a good job making it different from the ER episode (that one is still one the best hours of tv I've ever seen). 

 

 

There are a million things she could have done differently that may or may not have led to a different outcome, but even if she made some retrospectively unwise decisions (which is completely debatable), she's not responsible for his actions or his obsession with her.

Exactly.  I was mugged at gun point once and to this day, I beat myself up over the unwise decision I made that allowed it to happen, but in the end, it's not my fault.  But, this episode just drove home how much I want to keep my kids, especially my daughter, with me forever.  Poor kids will probably get a litany of do's and don'ts when they leave home for college. 

 

I know a lot of what happens in the show is ridiculous, but I'm still loving it. And on a shallow note: that surgeon may be a jerk, but damn is good looking.

[starri]

Seeing a bunch of talking heads either yelling or speaking very loudly at each other really undercut any dramatic tension of the real story.

 

I'm going to give the show one more week to see where they go after this, but I'm getting very close to hitting the eject button.  Rejiggering the show to make it more like Grey's Anatomy is not really a way to endear me to it.

[Texasmom1970]

Is it wrong of me that I still love Angus. I took the moment that he was in a bit of shock and went with a primal reaction. I know doctors aren't supposed to react that way but hey they are human.

I did not like the parallel of the tragedy to E.R. with the crazy patient stabbings. I also do not like the arrogant surgical attending or whatever he was. They are giving me flash backs of how cocky Eric LaSalle was on E.R. And they really do not want people comparing them to E.R. they will loose everytime.

[silverbell]

Yes, I wasn't too fond of him not actually saying he had no regrets either. Especially because Neal seems to have a thing where he doesn't directly answer a question if he is afraid of how the other person will take the answer. Instead he deflects, which is what he seemed to do in that scene. However, I will lose a lot of respect for him if that is the case because that would mean after waking up with regrets he then still went on to go for the very implied round two with Christa before work and that would not only ruin his character for me but, imo, would be very out of character for him.

 

Just curious, what 6 major characters are you counting that they have killed off?

I do not think he had actual regrets but he is second guessing himself (I think he does it a lot ) , he did the same thing after their breakfast, he likes Christa but he is afraid of what their relationship will do to their professional career, I think he is more aware of the gossip in the hospital then Christa.

In the end he stopped second guessing himself since he did disclose their relationship in front of the committee (at that point he did not need to sign the papers anymore cause Gina and her ultimatum was gone and he certainly did not need to make a show out of it) so he signed the papers not because he was "forced to" but because he wanted to do it. 

I was wandering the same about the 6 major characters ... 

[Netfoot]

Seriously, I've been cringing about how she handled that guy from the beginning. Not respecting her personal space, following her into restricted areas, not listening to her when she told him to leave..and she just thinks he's a harmless accident-prone guy. In that elevator, i would probably fake needing to get off after him and if he didn't leave on "his" floor, ask the other people in the elevator to escort me to a security station. Instead she went for the "isolate myself" option.

 

Her big mistake was not being able to trump his knife with a bigger one.

[Brattinella]

Her big mistake was not being able to trump his knife with a bigger one.

 

Or a gun.

[Happy Harpy]

I think the writers of this episode did a good job making it different from the ER episode (that one is still one the best hours of tv I've ever seen).

I did think it was different and I liked that it was. I hope that the follow-up will also be. I cross my fingers for no redux with Malaya...it could change her a bit, but not send her spiraling. Listen to Jesse, Malaya! 

I'd rather see Angus deal with the guilt, and Angus/Mike with the secret. I wonder if they'll use the opportunity to reanimate the Mario/Angus flatlining friendship. I could see Angus turning to drugs (prescription) to find sleep, for example. Mario could be of help, then.

 

Is it wrong of me that I still love Angus. I took the moment that he was in a bit of shock and went with a primal reaction. I know doctors aren't supposed to react that way but hey they are human.

There is no right and wrong when it comes to love the characters or not, only opinions imo.

I liked Angus way better in this one than I did last week; if only because he behaved like an adult with real and terrible issues. He risked his own life to save Malaya and many wouldn't have had the courage to do something. He also did betray his oath, twice, on scene when he pinned down the arms of a man bleeding to death, and then when he stopped in center stage. But I could understand why he snapped. Indeed, he's human: he can do right at times and wrong at others.That's what I thought about Gina two episodes ago, and about Christa in the previous one.

 

OTOH, after these two episodes, I can't help but hear the crickets of double standard against "emotional" women chirping (in general, not talking about your post here); but maybe S3 of Arrow made me too sensitive to the issue.

 

In the end he stopped second guessing himself since he did disclose their relationship in front of the committee (at that point he did not need to sign the papers anymore cause Gina and her ultimatum was gone and he certainly did not need to make a show out of it) so he signed the papers not because he was "forced to" but because he wanted to do it.

I couldn't agree more with this. But I think that Christa will believe otherwise for the sake of Drama.

[Dowel Jones]

Also, what kind of penny-anny hospital is this where there is only one surgeon around?

 

One where the ER is in constant Code Black because every trauma patient that comes in has 7 of the ER docs working on him.  Seriously, if they made an effort to ship some of them out in a timely manner, they wouldn't be as overcrowded.  Leanne's comment during the interview, "Center Stage is where rules go to die",  promotes this conflict between ER and OR.  I for one didn't enjoy the beating the ER staff took, but it had to be brought up sometime during the show.  It's too bad it took the overbearing egoist of a surgeon to do it. 

[starri]

"What's the difference between God and a surgeon?"

 

"God doesn't think he's a surgeon."

[twoods]

Considering a trauma surgeon usually runs the trauma codes and not the ER docs just so they don't deal with catastrophes like Gina, maybe the CEO storyline will have him try to change the management of the ER. One can hope...

I miss Guthrie- why is he MIA? I hope they didn't let the actor go.

[anlinn]

I do not think he had actual regrets but he is second guessing himself (I think he does it a lot ) , he did the same thing after their breakfast, he likes Christa but he is afraid of what their relationship will do to their professional career, I think he is more aware of the gossip in the hospital then Christa.

In the end he stopped second guessing himself since he did disclose their relationship in front of the committee (at that point he did not need to sign the papers anymore cause Gina and her ultimatum was gone and he certainly did not need to make a show out of it) so he signed the papers not because he was "forced to" but because he wanted to do it. 

I was wandering the same about the 6 major characters ... 

 

I agree with you. I get hold of an impression that he had to think about and reflect on what Christa told him. And how serious is a relationship with her. Yes .. he did because he wanted to do it and he was sure his decision.

[Sarnia]

I may have missed something, but how is Mike aware of what Angus has done?

[vibeology]

Yep. Even after he snapped at her and called her a liar, she still tried to make Gordon feel better. I thought the writing and acting there was pitch perfect and only made what happened next even more upsetting.

I loved how intense this episode was. I do think the way they revealed Gina's fate was strange, almost like they flipped the ER scene and the taking scene in the editing, but at the same time, in a real situation people won't dance around that just to create suspense.

The Christa/Neal drama was out of place in this episode. There wasn't enough time for it and it would have been better to put it off a week.

Angus should sleep just fine. I get he was wrong but I don't think I could have tried to save Gordon either.

[Happy Harpy]

I may have missed something, but how is Mike aware of what Angus has done?

I don't think they showed it -yet. Unless he noticed marks on Gordon's wrists (but with the blood and handcuffs I doubt it) and understood later on, Angus probably told him.

[candall]

PSA.  I never miss a chance to recommend Gavin de Becker's book, The Gift of Fear.  Do not ignore your tiny instinctual warning bell for the sake of being courteous or helpful or politically correct. 

 

****************

Sorry to lose the interim administrator.  She was more interesting to me than the interchangeable moonstruck love puppies.

Edited February 5, 2016 by candall

[needschocolate]

I found the timing in this episode a bit fuzzy - Malaya is a patient in the hospital, the Chief and Leanne meet at the graveyard, Malaya is still a patient in the hospital, eye still swollen.  I could believe that they have the investigation very soon after the incident - so soon that Malaya would still be a patient recovering from her injuries. Conversely, I could believe that it could take more than a wee or two before they have the investigation - enough time for a funeral and burial.  But I don't understand how Malaya would still be a patient after enough time had passed for Gina to be buried.

 

I thought it was a bad choice of Neil to turn in the paper saying that he and Christa were in a relationship right after sticking up for her in the investigation.

 

I was hoping that one of the ER docs would say "Well, maybe if we could have surgeons actually respond when we need them, instead of their always being no surgeons and/or operating room available, we wouldn't need to do surgery in the ER."  but, I suppose that would be too meta.  

 

I hope the people conducting the investigation grill the security people as to why they never noticed Gordon being in the ER 17 times, sometimes just wandering around, without even being a patient.  Your hospital is in code black 450 days out of 365, and you expect the ER docs to remember every person who comes into the ER?  

 

In that elevator, i would probably fake needing to get off after him and if he didn't leave on "his" floor, ask the other people in the elevator to escort me to a security station. Instead she went for the "isolate myself" option.

 

I would have gotten off when she did, but I would have taken another elevator or the stairs in the opposite direction and found a security guy.  

 

I am not saying that this was, in any way, shape, or form, Malaya's fault.  But, even if you did nothing wrong, there are usually things you can learn (to do differently the next time) to help keep the situation from repeating.  If you leave your wallet on a park bench, that doesn't give anyone the right to take it.  However, your chances of getting your wallet stolen increase tremendously if you keep leaving your wallet on park benches.  Gordon had no right to attack Malaya.  However, if you get off an elevator because someone on it, who is getting off on your floor, is creeping you out, and you continue to go to the floor you know he was going to, the chance of something happening to you increases.  There are bad people in the world and you should try your best to do things that less your chance of being the victim, but not doing those things doesn't make it the victim's fault.  

 

Is it wrong of me that I still love Angus. I took the moment that he was in a bit of shock and went with a primal reaction. I know doctors aren't supposed to react that way but hey they are human.

 

I think Angus's reaction was totally reasonable under the circumstances - I don't think he made a conscience decision to let Gordon die.  Even though he knew that Gordon hurt Malaya, he was yelling at Gordon to leave the knife in - Angus's gut instinct was to save Gordon.  After Gordon pulls out the knife and there is blood gushing out, it is easy to see how Angus would be in shock and not necessarily thinking clearly.  He may have been (subconsciously) trying to stop Gordon from doing further damage.  Or he may have (subconsciously) been afraid that, if he let Gordon's hands free, Gordon could attack him or get blood on him.  Having the security people come in may have jolted Angus back to reality.  

 

That's the story I am going with.

 

Edited because "none" and "one" are very different things

Edited February 5, 2016 by needschocolate

[izabella]

I may have missed something, but how is Mike aware of what Angus has done?

 

Angus told Mike all about it, toward the end of the episode.

[Netfoot]

I was hoping that none of the ER docs would say "Well, maybe if we could have surgeons actually respond when we need them, instead of their always being no surgeons and/or operating room available, we wouldn't need to do surgery in the ER."  but, I suppose that would be too meta.

 

I was hoping someone would say "Well, if the surgeons spent less time upstairs jerking off to their own publicity photos, we might not have to perform improvised surgery in the ER!  And what would also help, is if the Administrators spent less time assuring their bonuses by cutting essential staff to the bone. Then there might be more surgeons upstairs jerking off, and the ER staff could hope that one might wash his hands and appear, some time before the patient got a toe-tag!"

 

ETA:  How did a quote change from "one of" to "none of" ???

Edited February 5, 2016 by Netfoot

[Calamity Jane]

PSA.  I never miss a chance to recommend Gavin de Becker's book, The Gift of Fear.  Do not ignore your tiny instinctual warning bell for the sake of being courteous or helpful or politically correct. 

 

****************

Sorry to lose the interim administrator.  She was more interesting to me than the interchangeable moonstruck love puppies.

I wish The Gift of Fear were required reading for girls in about 6th/7th grade.  I taught 6th/7th/8th for over 20 years, and I can tell you, the message in the book is something most girls really need.  Listen to your instincts!  Don't let people trample over your boundaries in the name of good manners!  Malaya's behavior was a textbook example of how these psychopaths prey on women's conditioning to be polite and never hurt feelings.   

[CG28]

I found the timing in this episode a bit fuzzy - Malaya is a patient in the hospital, the Chief and Leanne meet at the graveyard, Malaya is still a patient in the hospital, eye still swollen. I could believe that they have the investigation very soon after the incident - so soon that Malaya would still be a patient recovering from her injuries. Conversely, I could believe that it could take more than a wee or two before they have the investigation - enough time for a funeral and burial. But I don't understand how Malaya would still be a patient after enough time had passed for Gina to be buried.

I thought it was a bad choice of Neil to turn in the paper saying that he and Christa were in a relationship right after sticking up for her in the investigation.

Yes, After watching the last 3 episodes back to back there are some serious timeline issues going on.

In the board room they say Gordon has been coming to the hospital and stalking Malaya for 2 months. They also show Mario treating him 2 months ago and him asking for Malaya. How did he know Malaya at that point? The first time we see him is when she stitches him up and he hugs her, per her conversation with Jessie, that is the first time she recalls treating him as well. Yet that occurred 1-2 days before the attack, which makes no sense unless Malaya treated him months earlier and she doesn't remember.

Then again as you mentioned the investigation timeline. In the beginning they say they have learned a lot in the past two days, so I am guessing the boardroom meetings occur two, maybe three days later. That could make sense and Malaya would likely still be in the hospital, but unless it was one seriously quick funeral, the only way that graveyard scene works if it occurs a good while later, which I guess is possible since they are both in different clothes but they certainly don't make it clear.

Overall, I really wasn't a fan of the flashbacks intermingling with current scenes in this episode, mainly because what time period do those flashbacks come from? Some we know, like obviously the scene between Christa and Gina and the locker room scene between Christa and Neal occurs in the same time frame as the previous episode since Gina wasn't injured yet. The others, I can't figure out if they occur later in the day after everything goes down with Gina and Malaya, which I question mainly because most of those people were getting off their shift when everything happened, or if they occur sometime in the next couple of days but before the day of the board meetings, or if they aren't flashbacks at all and actually occur the day of the board meetings. Too confusing.

I thought about that when Neal handed in the papers as well, but honestly if they are going to let them be in a relationship they have to get used to the fact that sometimes he is going to have to speak about his observation of her both positively and negatively.

I agree with you. I get hold of an impression that he had to think about and reflect on what Christa told him. And how serious is a relationship with her. Yes .. he did because he wanted to do it and he was sure his decision.

I agree, esp. about him needing to think and reflect. Also, when you take into consideration the fact that the last 3 episodes have been pretty much back to back in time, no wonder they are having communication issues. They were being forced to disclose a relationship to HR that less than 24 hours prior hadn't even existed! Couples have problems tackling such conversations after dating for weeks, sometimes months, they had to tackle it after a day. Kind of puts things in perspective, for me anyway

I was hoping someone would say "Well, if the surgeons spent less time upstairs jerking off to their own publicity photos, we might not have to perform improvised surgery in the ER! And what would also help, is if the Administrators spent less time assuring their bonuses by cutting essential staff to the bone. Then there might be more surgeons upstairs jerking off, and the ER staff could hope that one might wash his hands and appear, some time before the patient got a toe-tag?

This literally made me laugh out loud. Yeah I don't get how the ER is responsible for surgeons not being available when they are needed.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Carolinagirl1028

[izabella]

This literally made me laugh out loud. Yeah I don't get how the ER is responsible for surgeons not being available when they are needed.

 

 

I feel like there's a lesson in all this that no one learned - they need more security for the elevators and parking garage, cameras, something.  And that they actually need to DO something about how often there aren't enough surgeons.

 

I imagine that, in the real world, the hospital would feel the need to look into the number of times it happens that a surgeon isn't available, and then re-work their schedules so that there are more surgeons available, or stop accepting patients at some point and divert them elsewhere. 

Edited February 6, 2016 by izabella

[needschocolate]

ETA:  How did a quote change from "one of" to "none of" ???

 

After you quoted my post, I noticed that I had typed "none" when I meant to type "one." So, I changed my original post.  

 

 

Then again as you mentioned the investigation timeline. In the beginning they say they have learned a lot in the past two days, so I am guessing the boardroom meetings occur two, maybe three days later. That could make sense and Malaya would likely still be in the hospital, but unless it was one seriously quick funeral, the only way that graveyard scene works if it occurs a good while later, which I guess is possible since they are both in different clothes but they certainly don't make it clear.

 

Yeah, there is no way they had a funeral fast enough for Malaya to still be in the hospital, considering she was able to sit up and talk (if Malaya was in a coma, it would be a different story). Gina was murdered, and I have watched enough CSIs to know that the police have to do an investigation if there is a murder.  What if Gordon had an accomplice? What if it was just a random coincidence that two ER employees were stabbed on the same day?  There could still be a murderer wandering around.

[Netfoot]

After you quoted my post, I noticed that I had typed "none" when I meant to type "one." So, I changed my original post.  

 

Well, I'm glad to know I'm not going nuts...

[CG28]

I feel like there's a lesson in all this that no one learned - they need more security for the elevators and parking garage, cameras, something.  And that they actually need to DO something about how often there aren't enough surgeons.

 

I imagine that, in the real world, the hospital would feel the need to look into the number of times it happens that a surgeon isn't available, and then re-work their schedules so that there are more surgeons available, or stop accepting patients at some point and divert them elsewhere.

What I don't understand is if this is one of the busiest ER's in the country, where are the trauma surgeons? They are normally trained to do surgery even in an ER setting if needed. Unless that is what Campbell is, but I don't believe so since his patients "choose to come to him". And if for some crazy reason they don't have any trauma surgeons or just don't have enough, then they need to look into that immediately. Which makes you wonder instead of forbidding Neal to perform surgery why they don't approach him to see if he would like to undergo whatever is needed to become a board certified trauma surgeon. I can't imagine it would be much considering he has worked for years as an attending ER physician in trauma one and also completed his entire surgical residency prior to switching specialities, which is quite impressive when you think about it. Now if he didn't want such a position, that's different, but considering it would likely be much like what he is already doing half the time but with the rights to do it, I can't see why he would turn it down.