S01.E12: Bizarro

[secnarf]

I was kind of hoping for Bizarro to take Adam instead of Jimmy, and to find out that way that Kara is SG...though I understand why it's a bad idea for him to know and why Kara wouldn't necessarily want him to know - she doesn't know him well enough to trust him and Cat would fire her - I really wanted him to stick around. It feels like that whole storyline was a waste of time because it didn't end up going anywhere. The only "long-term" consequence was Cat distancing herself, which I hope won't last long.

 

I thought the goal of Bizarro was to make the world see that an alien like SG can't be trusted (and also to kill her), not to kill her and then replace her. I got the sense that once SG is dead, there would have been no need for Bizarro anymore.

[KirkB]

I thought the goal of Bizarro was to make the world see that an alien like SG can't be trusted (and also to kill her), not to kill her and then replace her. I got the sense that once SG is dead, there would have been no need for Bizarro anymore.

 

 

That's what I thought too. I figured Lord was going to use Bizarro to make Supergirl look bad and to turn the people against her. Killing her and replacing her does nothing to further his anti-alien, humanity first agenda. If anything, he should have made Bizarro deliberately and used her to publicly kill Supergirl so he could say "See? What the aliens do, we humans can do better!"

[Kromm]

There were some questionable moments in this, but overall this was a very good episode. That the writer of this one understood that the theme/resolution should be compassion shows that at least ONE of the people working on the show understands what to do.

 

The romantic stuff was bleh, but it could have been worse.

That's what I thought too. I figured Lord was going to use Bizarro to make Supergirl look bad and to turn the people against her. Killing her and replacing her does nothing to further his anti-alien, humanity first agenda. If anything, he should have made Bizarro deliberately and used her to publicly kill Supergirl so he could say "See? What the aliens do, we humans can do better!"

The problem with that plan (and the cliche) is that it acts like Supergirl can't ever show up at the same time as the baddie and show there are two of them. So I think what they did was the far smarter way to write this. Lord himself would know that the authorities (aka the DEO) would know it wasn't Supergirl, so there wouldn't be the classic "Manhunt" aspect the cliche usually indulges in. 

 

That said, he was so clumsy with his threats, that kind of invalidated any analysis based on him being smart. So his whole plan was to piss her off enough to get her to attack him to prove himself morally right?  Yeah, great plan.

This was also an interesting episode for Cat. Once more she's the best character on the show.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I thought Cat named her after just seeing her in the one video, did she hear her talk? 

Cat told Kara about naming Bizarro the morning after SG and Bizarro fought, when Kara was apologizing for not calling Adam back. 

[secnarf]

I saw this review posted online: http://uproxx.com/tv/supergirl-bizarro-review/2/

 

The part I thought was interesting is this:

 

 

Not to mention the fact that, despite the occasional romantic interludes and supporting character developments, Supergirl blows the Bechdel-Wallace test out of the water. Not one episode hasn’t had at least one scene in which two female characters discussed topics other than men with each other. In fact, scenes like these are the norm.

 

I'd actually been thinking lately that it seems like none of these episodes actually are passing the Bechdel test. God knows all Alex and Kara talk about is Max Lord and Kara's love life. Even any discussions about Bizarro inevitably include discussing Max Lord. That really just leaves Kara and Cat, and they - at least in the past couple of episodes - have tended to discuss Adam.
I'm not the biggest fan of the Bechdel test, but I am curious as to what scenes the author of that review is using to justify the above quote.

Edited February 3, 2016 by secnarf

[MarkHB]

Looks like Kara won't be having Adam in her life. Also, she has learned nothing about covering her tracks, the way she flew into Alex's pad as usual.

That's her apartment; we've never seen Alex's.

[Lantern7]

My bad. Kara should still be more discrete.

[Xenith22]

I saw this review posted online: http://uproxx.com/tv/supergirl-bizarro-review/2/

 

The part I thought was interesting is this:

 

 

 

I'd actually been thinking lately that it seems like none of these episodes actually are passing the Bechdel test. God knows all Alex and Kara talk about is Max Lord and Kara's love life. Even any discussions about Bizarro inevitably include discussing Max Lord. That really just leaves Kara and Cat, and they - at least in the past couple of episodes - have tended to discuss Adam.

I'm not the biggest fan of the Bechdel test, but I am curious as to what scenes the author of that review is using to justify the above quote.

Off the top of my head I'd wager that many episode has probably had at least one Kara/Cat interaction that was not about men to account for most of the episodes passing?    However just for arguments sake I'd guess some of the following may have been counted by the author:

 

1x12 - Brief talk at the start about coffee where Adam is not mentioned between them (even if he is responsible for the underlying change to their relationship he is still not mentioned in their first interaction), and then you had them discussing during the meeting about the possibility of a Supergirl impostor. 

 

1x11  - Had them discussing Senator Crane, and why Cat devotes media attention to such bigots if she hates them.

 

1x10 - Cat and Lucy discussing Lois, and Lucy's career choice in the opening interview scene.

 

1x09 - Had Kara talking with her Aunt about events on Krypton and with her mother.  Also obviously a lot of talking about Cat's suspicions of Kara being Supergirl.

 

1x08 - Cat and Kara talking about Cat's current predicament of the leaked emails and what it could mean.   Also Alex and Kara talking about Kara's Aunt.  And the various conversations between Kara and her Aunt (both present time and flashback from Krypton.).  Cat confronts Kara realizing her secret identity.

 

1x07 - Kara talking to he mother's hologram.  Alex and Kara discuss her being powerless for the day.  Kara's brief conversation with Cat about being sick.  Cat talking to Supergirl at the end asking where she had been during the crisis.

 

1x06 - Cat talks to Kara about her mother.  Cat talks to her mother about various things such as a party she is not invited to, Supegirl, Kara, etc).Cat talks to Kara about showing anger.

 

1x05 - Various conversations between Kara, Alex and her mother about Kara coming out, the past etc.  Conversation between Cat and Livewire about Supergirl.  Cat and Kara about guilt for Livewire's accident, etc.

[pete]

Kara/Supergirl has no chemistry with  any of the guys.   Not sure why they feel the show even needs it  its not working.

[Trini]

Obviously, it helps a lot that the lead is a woman, but this show is actually really good at having female characters talk to each other - period. Which, sadly, is rare in superhero/comic shows. [One reason why I'd like to see Iris from The Flash crossover sometime.]

[AllyB]

I find that most tv shows pass the Bechdel test no problem and those that don't have good reason not to, in the same way that there are a few shows that don't pass the reverse Bechdel. It's in film that women conversing with each other about something other than men is rare.

[Ottis]

As for SUPERGIRL, good episode.

 

 

Meh. I want to like this show, particularly since my young daughter likes it and it is a good bonding show to discuss female role models and behavior. But it spends too much time on giddy romance, and is so sloppy with details that even she has started calling it out. Cara tells Adam about losing her mom and dad and he never  asks about her "grandmother" she mentioned when she bailed at the restaurant? Martian Manhunter is a superhero but can barely hold his own against a single white Martian? BTW, how many Martians are there, and why don't we know about them on Earth, and why haven't the mean white ones come to take over? Lords can create a robot that is almost a match for superhero? So if he just creates 3-4 then he should defeat Supergirl, right? The Senator thanks Supergirl for saving her, but wasn't it Hank who rescued the Senator? Supergirl flies into her open window, nonsuperspeed, AGAIN. if Bizaro Supergirl gets stronger from krytonite, and a new bullet will weaken her, wouldn't that new bullet also strengthen Supergirl? Anyone? 

 

I personally got a kick out of Bizaro, because I remember that from the Justice League cartoons when I was a kid. But it would have been more artful for Bizaro to have developed as a result of a Lords screw up, kind of a Flowers for Algernon thing,  than Danvers shelling it with kryponite.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Ottis

[Chicago Redshirt]

Cara tells Adam about losing her mom and dad and he never  asks about her "grandmother" she mentioned when she bailed at the restaurant? Martian Manhunter is a superhero but can barely hold his own against a single white Martian? BTW, how many Martians are there, and why don't we know about them on Earth, and why haven't the mean white ones come to take over? Lords can create a robot that is almost a match for superhero? So if he just creates 3-4 then he should defeat Supergirl, right? The Senator thanks Supergirl for saving her, but wasn't it Hank who rescued the Senator? Supergirl flies into her open window, nonsuperspeed, AGAIN. if Bizaro Supergirl gets stronger from krytonite, and a new bullet will weaken her, wouldn't that new bullet also strengthen Supergirl? Anyone? 

Maybe Adam asks Kara off-screen about the grandmother, or didn't get a chance to because Bizarro interrupted the date.

 

There doesn't seem anything off about J'onn being barely able to hold his own against a single White Martian. We are told that the White Martians have the same abilities as the Green ones. And as shown, J'onn was paralyzed emotionally by the very appearance of one at first and had to get over it.

 

The White Martian claimed there were thousands/millions of them. She could be lying. Maybe some are already on Earth as shapeshifters, maybe not. Maybe they don't particularly care for Earth. Who knows? Not really a plot hole.

 

Lord didn't create a robot that was almost a match for a superhero. If you are thinking about Bizarro, she's not a robot. Team Supergirl speculated that Bizarro was the first time Lord succeeded. Could be, or could be he has some number of comatose people ready to turn into Supergirl-powered cookie-monster talking agents if he ever gets out of the DEO. If you're talking Red Tornado, that was created by T.O. Morrow, and it presumably cost a great deal of money, and Supergirl pretty easily demolished it in their first battle, and realistically should have in both its subsequent battles. The nonsense about it learning shouldn't matter when she could still freeze-breath it or tear it limb from limb no matter how much smarter it gets.

 

The Senator thanking Supergirl is a bit of a stretch, but we can fanwank that "Henshaw" told her about Supergirl's role in fighting the White Martian and allowing the DEO to save her.

 

I wouldn't say the flight was necessarily non-superspeed. 

 

As for kryptonite causing Bizarro to get weaker/stronger, I'd say the green K didn't necessarily cause Bizarro to get stronger. It caused her to get mutated. I don't think one could necessarily predict that the blue Kryptonite would make Kara stronger or have no negative effects on her. Which is why Alex was worried about shooting Kara by accident. In fact, that explains why Alex is necessary in the first place. If Kara were either immune to or had her strengths boosted by blue Kryptonite, she could literally fly up to Bizarro with a hunk of it and take her down.

[Ottis]

Thanks for the wanking. if you try hard enough, you can wank out of anything. The show's problem is, that it shouldn't require viewers to do so. A half-uttered, "How's your grandmother -" or a "We don't know what this kryponite will do to you, Cara, so stay out of the way" would address these issues, leaving viewers free to focus on the wider plot. Instead, in many scenes each episode, you are left to say, "Wait, what?" when Jimmy is unharmed after the fire attack by Bizzaro or Jimmy and Winn are drinking at work or innumerable lapses that make the show as a whole unstable.

And it's a shame, because the focus on the emotional side of being a superhero, and the choices you make, is pretty good most of the time (whether it is Cara, or Hank).

[Katydid]

I feel like the whole purpose of introducing Adam and then having him leave so quickly was to show how hard it is for Kara to navigate dating without having to reveal she's SG.  I'm surprised they didn't drag those antics out for longer, but I guess glad they didn't.  Then of course we're shown the 2 men that do know who she is and care for her, that she could date without having to explain every time she had to fly off and do her SG thing, drinking over not having her for various reasons.  It also crossed my mind that maybe Cat didn't really buy that Kara isn't SG and was happy to have Adam dating her because she thought he'd be able to get the scoop.  I don't necessarily think Cat orchestrated the whole thing for that reason, just that she may have been so supportive of them getting together in the hopes Adam would learn more. 

Edited February 3, 2016 by Katydid

[Dobian]

The one thing they need to stop is having Kara enter her apartment through her wide open window as Supergirl.  First of all, why would you leave your window wide open like that, given things like cold/wet weather, and basic security?  And of course, people seeing Supergirl flying through the same window regularly.  Why wouldn't she change back to Kara in a discreet place and walk over to her apartment like a normal person?  I know, it's tv and it looks cool, and it's fun seeing George Reeves do it in the old 50s show.  But come on, let's get a bit real here.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Bizarro Girl
Supergirl finds herself opposed to Maxwell Lord's latest creation.

[secnarf]

Thanks for the wanking. if you try hard enough, you can wank out of anything. The show's problem is, that it shouldn't require viewers to do so. A half-uttered, "How's your grandmother -" or a "We don't know what this kryponite will do to you, Cara, so stay out of the way" would address these issues, leaving viewers free to focus on the wider plot. Instead, in many scenes each episode, you are left to say, "Wait, what?" when Jimmy is unharmed after the fire attack by Bizzaro or Jimmy and Winn are drinking at work or innumerable lapses that make the show as a whole unstable.

I don't think whether or not Adam asked about Kara's grandmother is a plot hole, nor do I consider it fan-wanking to say that maybe he did offscreen. For example, they never show the characters going to the bathroom, but I can reasonably assume that happened off-screen - though now that I think about it, for all I know maybe SG can go for days without needing to use the bathroom. But they don't need to show every second of these characters' lives or interactions, and I am okay with minor things happening offscreen.

 

Alex did actually explicitly say that she didn't know what the reverse kryptonite would do to Kara, which is why she was worried about accidentally hitting Kara when Kara told her to take the shot. So, no wanking going on there - it was spelled out for us.

 

I actually thought the fire bit was more odd because it didn't seem like Bizarro was aiming her fire directly at Jimmy - it was more to his left. Then again, maybe she didn't want to kill him at that specific time. I don't need all of Bizarro's motivations spelled out to me. For me, where it falls apart, is when the plot cannot occur without substantial fan-wanking as key plot points. For example, if next episode they had shown Cat being distant with Kara without showing the conversation at the end of this episode - I might be able to assume that this conversation took place, but it is important enough that it needs to be shown without leaving it up to the viewers' imagination. Or even in this episode, how Bizarro's whole raison d'etre is kind of unclear - I don't need the show to spell out the motivations behind every specific action she takes, but an underlying reason for her existence and her general purpose should be fairly clear to the viewers, but it is something that we have debated on here, so it obviously isn't clear. I think that's a bigger "plot hole" than something like us not seeing whether or not Adam asked about Kara's grandmother.

Edited February 3, 2016 by secnarf

[Kromm]

I saw this review posted online: http://uproxx.com/tv/supergirl-bizarro-review/2/

 

The part I thought was interesting is this:

 

 

 

I'd actually been thinking lately that it seems like none of these episodes actually are passing the Bechdel test. God knows all Alex and Kara talk about is Max Lord and Kara's love life. Even any discussions about Bizarro inevitably include discussing Max Lord. That really just leaves Kara and Cat, and they - at least in the past couple of episodes - have tended to discuss Adam.

I'm not the biggest fan of the Bechdel test, but I am curious as to what scenes the author of that review is using to justify the above quote.

Is the test really so blatantly pigheaded that discussion of an antagonist, who happens to be male, also fails it? 

 

And really I'd think that between Kara and Alex, and Kara and Cat there'd be plenty of discussion of other women (Lois Lane, Lucy Lane, various female villains), family (Kara's various moms--even if Kara's father and cousin somehow are judged to fail this test), events, work, etc.  And if the test is failed just because Cat, for example, says something vague about not knowing who Winn is to Kara in some scene, then it really IS a bullshit test.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Is the test really so blatantly pigheaded that discussion of an antagonist, who happens to be male, also fails it? 

 

And really I'd think that between Kara and Alex, and Kara and Cat there'd be plenty of discussion of other women (Lois Lane, Lucy Lane, various female villains), family (Kara's various moms--even if Kara's father and cousin somehow are judged to fail this test), events, work, etc.  And if the test is failed just because Cat, for example, says something vague about not knowing who Winn is to Kara in some scene, then it really IS a bullshit test.

You are misunderstanding what the test is. 

 

The test is whether there are a) two or more female characters b) who have a conversation with each other c) about something other than a man. If all three conditions are met, it passes. If any one of the three are not, then it fails.

 

So the fact that two women talk about a man doesn't cause something to fail the test.

 

It's that for the entirety of a movie or episode there are no times wherein two women talk about other things than a man. 

 

The test certainly has its flaws -- a movie like Gravity that has Sandra Bullock as its focus but doesn't have her talk to any women fails, but a movie in which two women have a single conversation about lipstick would pass, for instance. 

 

I would guess that every individual episode of Supergirl passes because Kara has some conversation with Cat about work or Alex about superheroing, or their family or something, and a poster above listed various examples of conversations that would cause the last half-dozen or so episodes to pass the test.

[Jordan27]

Too dark, with no comic relief all episode :(.

 

Who is Eliza Danvers? And what is that red tentacled thing we see in the preview? What is that green slimy thing in her living room?

 

Why didnt she tell Adam who she really was?

 

By the way, in today's day and age of instant technology, I find it hard to believe that Supergirl's real identity would be kept secret for too long. Just one little leak and the entire universe knows. 

Well, of course, the obvious is that she looks just like Kara.  But, even if someone wore a mask, computer facial recognition would probably reveal someone's identity.

[Kromm]

You are misunderstanding what the test is. 

 

The test is whether there are a) two or more female characters b) who have a conversation with each other c) about something other than a man. If all three conditions are met, it passes. If any one of the three are not, then it fails.

 

So the fact that two women talk about a man doesn't cause something to fail the test.

 

It's that for the entirety of a movie or episode there are no times wherein two women talk about other things than a man. 

 

The test certainly has its flaws -- a movie like Gravity that has Sandra Bullock as its focus but doesn't have her talk to any women fails, but a movie in which two women have a single conversation about lipstick would pass, for instance. 

 

I would guess that every individual episode of Supergirl passes because Kara has some conversation with Cat about work or Alex about superheroing, or their family or something, and a poster above listed various examples of conversations that would cause the last half-dozen or so episodes to pass the test.

I understand the test. It's that the context of how the man is discussed is totally irrelevant. That's why I called it "pigheaded". Max Lord's gender is irrelevant to his status as an antagonist, but nevertheless it's considered a failure to the test if his name is so much as mentioned. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

Like I said, it is irrelevant to the test if there are 50 conversations between women about a man. That does not fail the test in and of itself.

 

What fails the test is if there are no conversations between two women about something other than a man.

 

It is a fairly low threshold -- pretty much everything has two men having a conversation about something that's not a woman. 

[lion10]

If I were Kara, at some point I would be more like, "synthetic Kryptonite, the what now?" She seems awfully nonplussed that the DEO has an ample amount of stuff that can kill her and her cousin and now they are working on ways to increase that supply.

 

Also, one would think that the DEO has the Kryptonite shielding that Astra developed from when SG brought her in. If so, SG should probably ask for her own copy.

 

Yeah, I find it strange how non-concerned Kara is that the DEO has enough synthetic kryptonite to fire machine guns loaded with the stuff.  If they wanted to kill her, they could, which kind of takes away some of the tension of the classic question "What if [she] changes her mind?"  Though to be fair, Kara and Clark ARE terrifying, they're just too nice to let the whole "alien god" go to their head.  Which reminds me, I'm hoping for a Red Daughter or Supergirl-centered Injustice alternate reality arc in the later seasons.  Maybe on Earth 4 or 5.

[secnarf]

I understand the test. It's that the context of how the man is discussed is totally irrelevant. That's why I called it "pigheaded". Max Lord's gender is irrelevant to his status as an antagonist, but nevertheless it's considered a failure to the test if his name is so much as mentioned. 

It is not considered a failure if his name is mentioned. His name can be mentioned as many times as you want. You only need two women to have a conversation about something other than a man. So, if for example Alex and Kara only talk about Lord in an episode, you cannot use any of their conversations to say that the episode passes the test. The episode could, however, still pass the test if two other female characters (e.g. Cat and Lucy) have a discussion about something that isn't a man (e.g. Lucy working at CatCo).

 

However, I do agree that the discussion of villains is somewhat tenuous because in many cases, the villains just happen to be male or female without the gender really having a huge impact on the storyline. That is one of the issues with the Bechdel test, and part of the reason why I said earlier that I'm not such a fan of it. However, the counterpoint to that argument is that if the villain is female (which is not exactly typical of movies, TV shows or comics), that promotes feminism in the sense that women are being given interesting roles that go beyond being a man's love interest.

Of course, then it gets even more complicated with something like the White Martian. We don't really know its gender. We assume female because it took on the image of the female senator for most of the episode, but we know they can shape-shift regardless of gender. And that's another way the test can fall apart, so I can see how one could look at that and say that the test is useless.

Despite its issues, I do find it interesting when an episode or movie fails the Bechdel test despite having multiple female characters. It's like, really, they couldn't have those characters have a single conversation about something other than a man?!

[Jordan27]

Another ho hum episode. 

 

All the relationship possibilities are pointless.  Jimmy has no chemistry with Kara.  In fact, he just looks and acts so much older.  Kara has no chemistry with Winn.  Jimmy doesn't even look good with Lucy. 

 

And what is it with their Jimmy Olsen?  A good looking muscular black guy who is really confident?  Nothing like any Jimmy Olsen I have ever seen.  In fact, Winn is Jimmy Olsen in this show. 

 

And I have no idea why some of you think Kara should have told Adam who she is.  She barely knows him and that secret should be for those she really trusts and knows really well.

 

To this ep...they did put Lord where they should have.  But, he's so confident, you can tell he has another play up his sleeve.

 

And why didn't SG just take the gun and shoot the fake SG? 

 

Why didn't they tell their boss that Lord knew about SG's identity?  What was to be gained by not telling him?  What are they?  10 years old.

 

Cat is just a cliché and adds nothing to this show.

 

I would really like to see this show reboot itself in season 2.  There is nothing short of Melissa's portrayal of SG and Kara that couldn't go.

[Xenith22]

And why didn't SG just take the gun and shoot the fake SG?

I can think of a lot of possible reasons for this

- Kara is not trained to aim a gun.

- Since Bizarra can move at Superspeed she needed someone distracting her and getting her to stay still so she could be shot from behind.  Kara was by far best equipped to accomplish that.

- Potential prolonged exposure from radiation leaking from the Green/Blue K in the guns chamber could have effected Kara while she was holding it.

 

 

I don't think whether or not Adam asked about Kara's grandmother is a plot hole, nor do I consider it fan-wanking to say that maybe he did offscreen.

Yeah honestly, we know he texted her after the first date.  He may have just ask her about it that way.  Although really we also don't even see their 2nd date, only the very end of it after plenty of other stuff has potentially been discussed.   So yeah...

Edited February 4, 2016 by Xenith22

[Jordan27]

can think of a lot of possible reasons for this

- Kara is not trained to aim a gun.

- Since Bizarra can move at Superspeed she needed someone distracting her and getting her to stay still so she could be shot from behind.  Kara was by far best equipped to accomplish that.

- Potential prolonged exposure from radiation leaking from the Green/Blue K in the guns chamber could have effected Kara while she was holding it.

 

Kara has super aim.   And she did get her to be still.  Could have shot her then. 

 

And they said the blue was anti fake SG, not Kara. 

[The Crazed Spruce]

The discussion of the Bechdel test is beginning to detract from the conversation about the episode itself. I suggest we move the discussion to the Gender in Television thread in the EETV forum.

[Chicago Redshirt]

"Kara, I don't know what this is going to do to you if I hit you" is literally what Alex said before taking the shot. 

 

When they were at the DEO, Kara asks "Will this stuff work?" and Alex's response was "We're going to find out."

 

In short, they couldn't be sure what blue K would have on either Bizarra or SG. Having SG expose herself to it any more than she had to was probably a good idea.

[miracole]

The romantic relationships or want to be romantic relationships on this show are terrible. 

 

Jimmy's revelation to himself about Kara was lame. No, you don't love her Jimmy. You might like her a lot and care about her but you do not love her.

 

Winn and his, I'm all good now and can joke with another dude about manning up and getting with Kara like a week after I tried to ghost her after thinking my keeping my transparent feelings for her bottled up might turn me evil, was lame.

 

Don't know or care what they're doing with Jimmy and Lucy but it's lame.

 

I don't see how Max Lord can stay around after this season. I hope they keep him irredeemable and don't try to save him.

 

J'onn/Hank and Alex are saving this show for me.

[Miss Scarlet]

This show is entertaining enough, but the writing is so clunky. The dialogue is really cheesy. A lot of the actors come across as wooden to me, but I think it's the writing not them. Although I thought Mechad Brooks' acting during the scene where he's kidnapped by Bizarro and is in chains was pretty clunky too. The "scared" faces he was making were very acting 101.

 

Kara has bad chemistry with both Winn and James. I wish they drop the romantic plots. They're really cringeworthy. I think the reason they're pushing so hard for a James and Kara romance is because the show wants to brand itself as feminist, progressive and diverse and they like the idea of Supergirl being in an interracial relationship. That's fine, but this isn't the right pair for that. Supergirl/Kara looks like she's a teenager and Kara has a childlike naivete about people, whereas James is a full-grown man. Pairing them together just seems off. 

 

I have mixed feelings on Maxwell Lord's characterization. On the one hand he's sort of fun, but on the other hand he's clearly way too over the top. I think toning him down would have been better. 

Edited February 4, 2016 by Miss Scarlet

[Miss Scarlet]

But isn't this show branded/cast/written to have more of a (supposedly) progressive edge to it than The Flash? I've never seen The Flash so I can't really compare the two. I think having diversity on the show is great, it's just these particular love triangles/quadrangles that suck. 

[jaytee1812]

This show isn't diverse. It has two black characters, both men, no Asians no Hispanics, no disabled characters, no LGBTQ characters. This show is neither diverse nor progressive.

[Miss Scarlet]

I agree with that. That's why I said it was "supposedly" diverse. The show seems to think it is more diverse, progressive and feminist than it actually is. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

Anyone who thinks this production team want an interracial relationship to happen has not seen how they're going out of their way to avoid it on The Flash. Ali Adler hasn't exactly got a great track record either.

Taking thoughts to the relationship thread.

[maczero]

Also, if this reverse-engineered version of Kryptonite weakened Bizarra, then by that logic shouldn't it have boosted Supergirl's powers and made her stronger? They could have just given her that and let her fight it out with Bizarra.

 

I think shooting Bizarro is a much better idea than amping up Kara and letting her duke it out.  As others have pointed out, Alex wasn't sure what it would do to Kara.  Also, superhero brawls cause a lot of collateral damage.   Check out the Man of Steel film to see what an all out Kryptonian battle can do to a city.

 

As for Kara & Clark being concerned about the DEO stockpiling so much Kryptonite, there's no reason they should automatically assume it will be used against them.  The DEO is hunting over a dozen Kryptonian criminals.  Every DEO agent should be carrying at least one clip filled with Kryptonite bullets.    

[cambridgeguy]

 

I have mixed feelings on Maxwell Lord's characterization. On the one hand he's sort of fun, but on the other hand he's clearly way too over the top. I think toning him down would have been better.

Max jumped a little too quickly into cartoonish supervillain mode (i.e. Superfriends Lex Luthor instead of Superman the animated series Lex).  Then again, this show does burn through plot pretty quickly so who knows, maybe they didn't want to waste too much time on ambiguous Max.  If they had he probably would have hooked up with Alex and the last thing this show needs is more relationship drama.

[Chicago Redshirt]

As for Kara & Clark being concerned about the DEO stockpiling so much Kryptonite, there's no reason they should automatically assume it will be used against them.  The DEO is hunting over a dozen Kryptonian criminals.  Every DEO agent should be carrying at least one clip filled with Kryptonite bullets.    

 

Except DEO Kryptonite HAS been used against Supergirl twice so far against her wishes -- once when she was doing nothing but flying around in the pilot and another time when she was cuffed by J'onn. Supergirl also knows that General Lane built RT as an anti-Kryptonian device and has reason to suspect that General Lane would take over the DEO if J'onn were incapacitated (as he did) or exposed as an alien. 

[lion10]

Max jumped a little too quickly into cartoonish supervillain mode (i.e. Superfriends Lex Luthor instead of Superman the animated series Lex). Then again, this show does burn through plot pretty quickly so who knows, maybe they didn't want to waste too much time on ambiguous Max. If they had he probably would have hooked up with Alex and the last thing this show needs is more relationship drama.

If they wanted Maxwell Lord to fulfill the role of Lex Luthor the writers should take their cues from the comic "Lex Luthor: Man of Steel" as it does a really good job of explaining why he doesn't like Superman but also doesn't hesitate to show his callous nature. Lord telling Kara "you are my nightmare" could be a very powerful scene.

I don't know what this show is missing compared to Arrow season 1 or 2, but it is missing it. Maybe because this show is more family oriented than either Arrow or The Flash.

[lion10]

It doesn't have a murderous misogynist as a protagonist? The cast of Supergirl was hired for ability? The lead in Supergirl can act? It passes the Bechdel test pretty much every episode?

Ease up just a bit.

Oliver isn't a misogynist, I don't see what it is about Oliver's character that would make you think that. Could you explain that to me?

Both Melissa and Stephen can act well enough so it's not that. And I loved Jessica Jones so it's not because Supergirl is a female heavy show. I've watched every episode of Supergirl and I'm not hate watching lol so I don't know why you come out guns blazing. I want this show to get better but I don't know exactly what's missing from it. Season 1 Arrow grabbed me from episode one, probably the hardest any show has, so I am wondering why this show doesn't do that.

[TV Anonymous]

How did the kryptonite bullets flip the 'S' logo on Bizarro's chest without ruining it?

[Zuleikha]

Season 1 Arrow grabbed me from episode one, probably the hardest any show has, so I am wondering why this show doesn't do that.

Maybe you just resonate a bit more with the plot of Arrow. Supergirl can't be everyone's absolute favorite. I don't watch Arrow because it has no interest to me, but I've read plenty of fandom complaints about the writing and some of the characters, so it's not like it gets uniform praise.

 

The only consistent complaint I see about Supergirl is the romantic quadrangle. I'm not sure what the writers were hoping to achieve with that, but they're not doing it. I don't think it's the worst thing ever, but it doesn't seem like there's anyone who likes it. 

[lion10]

Maybe you just resonate a bit more with the plot of Arrow. Supergirl can't be everyone's absolute favorite. I don't watch Arrow because it has no interest to me, but I've read plenty of fandom complaints about the writing and some of the characters, so it's not like it gets uniform praise.

The only consistent complaint I see about Supergirl is the romantic quadrangle. I'm not sure what the writers were hoping to achieve with that, but they're not doing it. I don't think it's the worst thing ever, but it doesn't seem like there's anyone who likes it.

Oh yeah, Arrow can have some weak writing and plots and I couldn't make it more than halfway through the Pilot of the Flash. I just remember after seeing the pilot from Arrow I really needed to see more. Who knows.

[Jordan27]

Anyone who thinks this production team want an interracial relationship to happen has not seen how they're going out of their way to avoid it on The Flash. Ali Adler hasn't exactly got a great track record either.

They've already had one.

This show isn't diverse. It has two black characters, both men, no Asians no Hispanics, no disabled characters, no LGBTQ characters. This show is neither diverse nor progressive.

Shows have to have quotas?!?!?

[Chicago Redshirt]

The only consistent complaint I see about Supergirl is the romantic quadrangle. I'm not sure what the writers were hoping to achieve with that, but they're not doing it. I don't think it's the worst thing ever, but it doesn't seem like there's anyone who likes it. 

 

 

There are a number of other complaints I've seen made (and some of which I've made myself) repeatedly:

 

1. Fighting -- the fight scenes are lame and the villains Supergirl fights are so below her weight class that it's weak that it takes her the whole episode to deal with them.

 

2. Plot holes -- most episodes have people carrying the idiot ball, from Kara flying in her apartment to Team Supergirl talking about Supergirl business in public. 

 

3. Superman -- the show has been having the Big Blue Boy Scout  seem awfully nonchalant about a full-on Kryptonian invasion and he also has failed to inform Kara of the facts of Super Life

[Kromm]

This show isn't diverse. It has two black characters, both men, no Asians no Hispanics, no disabled characters, no LGBTQ characters. This show is neither diverse nor progressive.

I agree with that. That's why I said it was "supposedly" diverse. The show seems to think it is more diverse, progressive and feminist than it actually is.

There's no magic wand you can wave to do that. The show only has 6 regulars. Admittedly they could have perhaps race-changed the Danvers family (since they're not even pretending people don't know Kara Danvers is adopted), but that's about it... unless you actually think it would have been a good idea to make Winn, the son of the villain (and thus the villain himself) another race... sparking outrage there that the villain is a bad representation.  I suppose there's Cat Grant too, so okay, you've got them there. There's no reason Cat couldn't have been Asian. Or gay. Or an Asian who's gay.

 

Okay, seriously, joking aside, when a show at least has made an effort at diversity, even if there are still roles they could have changed and didn't, doesn't it deserve at least a little respect for it?  It seems to me if people viscously cut down on the smaller efforts, then a lot of "well we can never please them no matter what we do" reactions in Hollywood are going to follow.  Better to note that a show is an improvement but still not perfect than take the tact that they're total phonies for even seeming to claim they're diverse.

[TV Anonymous]

Out of topic: but why a particular show needs to go out of its way so that every element of society appear to be represented? There are bunch of shows on BET that care not a bit about diversity.

[Trini]

Out of topic: but why a particular show needs to go out of its way so that every element of society appear to be represented? There are bunch of shows on BET that care not a bit about diversity.

 

So, you think shows that employ and feature historically underrepresented minorities don't care about diversity?

[Zuleikha]

There are a number of other complaints I've seen made (and some of which I've made myself) repeatedly:

Your quote is too long to quote all of it, but I haven't seen those as a consistently agreed upon thing. Yeah, some people make those complaints, but it seems like there are just as many who accept the three items as typical TV writing that you just have to roll with. Whereas I have never seen any defense of or liking of the romantic quadrangle.

 

In regards to diversity, while I do celebrate the diversity that is present in Supergirl, I think it's an accurate criticism that even at the tertiary character level, we're basically seeing black and white (and mostly white) characters only. The issue could be addressed by having more recurring characters at Catco and the DEO. Given the amount of time we spend in both places, it's a bit silly that the only people we know there are the regulars. I don't want more regulars... the cast feels, if anything, overcrowded. But Kara, Winn, and James could have some named co-workers who pop up periodically for a line or two and likewise for Alex and Hank.

 

Also, looking at the slate of upcoming villains, it seems like some of them could easily be Asian or Latino/a. The precedent is already there for racebending to increase diversity.