S03.E08: Breaking Down Barriers

[moonxyz]

I’m surprised that people are actually defending Ashley. I personally have had strong negative opinions about her from day one.

 

David is needy and clumsy in his approach but he is not even remotely to blame for the failure of this pairing. Ashley from her own mouth told Dr C that she’s not attracted to him and therefore cannot get past that to build any type of intimacy with David.

 

That’s it. It’s that simple. She thought she was going to get paired with her physical type. She didn’t. From that moment on, it was « Fuck  this » mode.  Nothing David could do or say will change this.

[Meliss]

moonxyz-

You may be right--maybe he never had a chance.

I defend Ashley because I do find something creepy about David & yet the Facebook page has hundreds of comments about how they all hate Ashley & love David.

I am responding to that I guess--no one there would even look at it any other way but when I found this forum, the commenters appeared much more thoughtful (I was trying to think of a polite way to say "intelligent."). That does not mean that I believe only people who agree with me are intelligent--it is more about having an open mind.

Truly I started to see something in David on their honeymoon that bothered me. At the time I thought I may be jumping to conclusions because of my personal experiences. I also thought I may be over-reacting because as a social

worker, I work with perpetrators & victims of domestic violence. I do tend to be more protective.

However, he has a controlling nature that worries me. There are lots of examples of this. He has expectations about how much they are together & how she should be interacting with him. He feels like she should give in to his advances because they are married--even in real-life marriage, no one should forced to do things they are not comfortable with.

Also, He seems a little delusional (one example: he says he is falling in love with her when she does not appear to like him in any way??)

I was just surprised that no one out of hundreds of commenters on FB could find one reason to dislike David--but they all HATED Ashley. From what I see, David's issues are way worse than hers.

[ClareWalks]

I don't understand the Ashley defense either. It's like all of them have forgotten that she is a severe introvert who is very slow to romance...and she CHOSE to be on a TV SHOW where she marries a TOTAL STRANGER. There is nothing wrong with having a personality like hers, but what the hell was she thinking CHOOSING to be on THIS show? (Yes, lots of caps for emphasis here)

[Snarklepuss]

She has a very reserved personality that most people find boring. It's called being an introvert & it does not show well on TV. Plus she finds herself uncomfortable with her new husband & stressed with school. She is the type that recharges being alone & he is the type that needs to be around others to recharge.

 

Personality type theory was my favorite subject in grad. school and I ran a mailing list for INFJs for many years (of which I am one).  That said, I am of the belief that introversion is about as much to blame for Ashley's bad image as it is to blame for the Newtown shooter's or Jeffrey Dahmer's.  In other words, introversion itself is not to blame for her looking bad.  It's her issues, such as her immaturity, her selfishness, her lack of social skills and self-awareness (which being an introvert doesn't get you excused from having) plus her lack of communication skills that are doing it.   The introversion is just an excuse.  All introverts have to extrovert on a regular basis to interact with people.  As a card carrying introvert myself I think you can only excuse so much based on not looking your best on TV. 

 

I do agree that they are a bad match personality-wise especially from an introversion-extroversion perspective.  But that STILL does not give Ashley the excuse to treat David so badly.  She is probably  unaware of how bad she is treating him, but IMO that's no excuse either.  She should have a clue about how to treat people, and introversion does not absolve her of that.  After all, she's going to school to be in a profession where she deals with people.  If she is THAT socially stunted that she can't even be a human being with David, she has far more going on with her than can be attributed to introversion.  There is introversion and then there is social anxiety and she seems to have a lot of the latter.  And I don't buy that David is just overwhelming her so much that she can't find a way to deal with him.  Introverts have to learn to deal with extroverts and I think she's just totally unable to do that.  She probably has trouble dealing with other introverts too!

Edited January 23, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[stuckin60s]

Snarklepuss I agree.  We should also remember she has been a Social Worker and is going to nursing school.  both of those careers are trained in hard conversations and comforting the other person

[ctbabe]

I don't know where people are getting the assumption that David is perfect. He absolutely isn't perfect. I am sure watching back, he would like to take back and change somethings (just guessing). I am guessing that with the public's treatment of season 2 maf guys, everything needs to be said and not assumed. I also think he is making sure he dots all the i's and crossing all the t's to ensure he isnt blamed for anything. That's why I thinks it looks like he is playing the camera. Does that make him a bad person? No. Would I do the same? Hell yeah. People are vicious on SM.

Ashley isn't a bad person. I just think maf isn't the right place to experiment.

BTW, reunion is going to be sooooo good. I don't think David would be as quiet as Sean if he is accused of anything.

[Minney]

Introvert, extrovert, physical attraction or not... even if David is an over excited puppy who cannot contain his desire for physical affection and attempts to progress the marriage, Ashley has lacked basic communication that could have solved many of these issues.  To be married means to have tough conversations and she should have sat David down weeks ago and set some boundaries.  All of this could have been avoided if she would have just communicated openly, honestly, and directly about her boundaries and comfort level.  David is a smart, decent man, from what I've seen he would have been happy to have the communication and would have respected her boundaries.  Good communication can lead to a deeper relationship.  I just wish Ashley would have at least attempted it instead of freezing him out which has led to some crazy accusations and speculations on both of their personalities and reasons for doing the show.   

[mythoughtis]

None of these six people are perfect - no one is.  If they were really really good at relationships and reading signals, they wouldn't be here.   In order to really want to have someone else pick your mate (unless it's a cultural norm, maybe), you are admitting that you suck at picking Mr/Ms Right, and holding up your half of the relationship.   The supposed premise to this show is that the 'experts' match you up with people that should be your Mr/Ms Right and should fit with your relationship skills.   But, they seem to suck at that - or aren't really giving these couples needed support.  There should be daily checklists, exercises, and journals.  There should be daily required conversation topics for the couples.   That's not really happening.  It's also obvious the experts aren't watching footage during this process.

 

Sam should have failed the psych tests.  That much was obvious with her behavior in the minutes prior to the wedding.  Their six weeks should have been terminated as it's damaging, or Sam should have been told point blank by the experts on camera her behavior is inappropriate. 

 

Vanessa and Tres seem to be trying. Referring back to my first paragraph, they both have issues.  Heck, name me a married couple that doesn't. 

 

David and Ashley.  I'm sorry, she's NOT trying.  She's a 30 year old professional student who should be bright enough to pick up a book with tips on doing some of the items I mention in the first paragraph, even if the show isn't giving them to her.  Heck, even an etiquette book would help her out. Even a book on small talk. 

 

David is treating this as a REAL marriage.  He is expecting at least a kiss a day, goodbye, hello, goodnight.  You don't get to the finish line until you at least start the race.  She's not even turning on the key, and refuses to do so until at least 2 months into a six week marriage?  I don't hear him asking for sex. Picking her up and rolling onto the bed is a typical 30 year old guy thing with his girlfriend.  He didn't do it to be controlling, he did it to be funny.  I refer again to paragraph number one.  

[ClareWalks]

Again I have to wonder, where are all these people who claim David is perfect? Nobody has stated or even implied that, unless I've missed something. David is certainly better suited for a TV show like this, where you have to be outgoing and commitment-ready and open-minded enough to give it a shot, regardless of initial (or subsequent) impressions, for 6 weeks. He is a bit over-eager, but that's better for a show like this than being way too under-eager. 

 

I wouldn't want to be trapped in an elevator with either of them, but for a show called Married At First Sight, David is obviously a better fit.

[ctbabe]

None of these six people are perfect - no one is. If they were really really good at relationships and reading signals, they wouldn't be here. In order to really want to have someone else pick your mate (unless it's a cultural norm, maybe), you are admitting that you suck at picking Mr/Ms Right, and holding up your half of the relationship. The supposed premise to this show is that the 'experts' match you up with people that should be your Mr/Ms Right and should fit with your relationship skills. But, they seem to suck at that - or aren't really giving these couples needed support. There should be daily checklists, exercises, and journals. There should be daily required conversation topics for the couples. That's not really happening. It's also obvious the experts aren't watching footage during this process.

Sam should have failed the psych tests. That much was obvious with her behavior in the minutes prior to the wedding. Their six weeks should have been terminated as it's damaging, or Sam should have been told point blank by the experts on camera her behavior is inappropriate.

Vanessa and Tres seem to be trying. Referring back to my first paragraph, they both have issues. Heck, name me a married couple that doesn't.

David and Ashley. I'm sorry, she's NOT trying. She's a 30 year old professional student who should be bright enough to pick up a book with tips on doing some of the items I mention in the first paragraph, even if the show isn't giving them to her. Heck, even an etiquette book would help her out. Even a book on small talk.

David is treating this as a REAL marriage. He is expecting at least a kiss a day, goodbye, hello, goodnight. You don't get to the finish line until you at least start the race. She's not even turning on the key, and refuses to do so until at least 2 months into a six week marriage? I don't hear him asking for sex. Picking her up and rolling onto the bed is a typical 30 year old guy thing with his girlfriend. He didn't do it to be controlling, he did it to be funny. I refer again to paragraph number one.

I totally agree. My reference to perfection was because a lot of Ashley's supporters think everyone assumes David is perfect. Edited January 23, 2016 by ctbabe

[Soup333]

Truly I started to see something in David on their honeymoon that bothered me. At the time I thought I may be jumping to conclusions because of my personal experiences. I also thought I may be over-reacting because as a social

worker, I work with perpetrators & victims of domestic violence. I do tend to be more protective.

However, he has a controlling nature that worries me. There are lots of examples of this. He has expectations about how much they are together & how she should be interacting with him. He feels like she should give in to his advances because they are married--even in real-life marriage, no one should forced to do things they are not comfortable with.

Also, He seems a little delusional (one example: he says he is falling in love with her when she does not appear to like him in any way??)

 

 

Interesting. How do you feel about Neil and Sam? He is surely being abused. 

 

Also Neil had expectations of how much he would be with Sam as well. He didn't think it was a good idea staying at her house with her roommate, etc. Is this also considered controlling?

 

I just do not see David as a horrible person. No, he's not perfect. And him tossing Ashley on the bed made me cringe because I knew she wouldn't find it amusing because she doesn't want him touching her. But SHE should have known better than to sign up for this. One, because of her outside commitments and two, because she is so narrow-minded in what she wants. I don't believe she was genuine in signing up for the show - unless she told the experts that dark features were a deal breaker for her and they completely ignored her. But even that wouldn't excuse the way she treats him. She couldn't have texted him back after he contacted her when she was late coming home? Or was his checking up on her controlling as well? 

 

I don't think Ashley is ugly, but she is NOT warm, caring, open-minded or considerate (unless you are her dog). If I were David I would consider myself lucky to be done with her. 

[Empress1]

I definitely don't think David is perfect; I don't think I'd date him. He has said that he tends to commit too early and there's an earnestness that reads to me as a bit clingy, which doesn't work for me - I can't be with someone who needs to be attached at the hip all the time, period. It's fundamentally incompatible with me. However, Ashley is clearly repulsed by him. I say "clearly" because it's so obvious to me in every interaction, even if this is edited for TV - and if this is the condensed version, I can only imagine how it is in real life. And that sucks for David, and it's mean on Ashley's part. She said they're not acting like they're newly dating; they're not even acting like friends, because she doesn't treat him like one. I think she treats him badly. I think Sam treats Neil badly too, it just comes out differently. And I think it's shitty, and I don't think either David or Neil is doing anything to warrant the treatment. I don't really think there's a reason to deliberately mistreat people (although I don't think Ashley or Sam thinks they're doing that), and in this case ... it's six damn weeks. Show up, smile, be polite, and make small talk and then opt out at the end of it. Treat them like a coworker you're not crazy about. Be cordial.

 

Nothing David is doing strikes me as disingenuous. As someone said, a kiss on a ferris wheel at night after three weeks of dating would be sweet and romantic if Ashley were into it; it's not moving too fast to kiss after three weeks. It's really not moving to fast to try to hug someone after a few weeks - I've hugged first dates hello and goodbye, and given/gotten pecks on the cheek.

 

However, if he does cheat on her, I don't agree with that - it's six weeks, he can and should hold out on moving on until then. (But then he should move all the way on. There's no benefit to him staying in contact with Ashley.)

[Neurochick]

Courtship is an anachronistic idea to me. I feel sad and worried for people who seem to fall for the "romanticism" of courtship. There's a true crime series called "Who the Bleep Did I Marry?" on ID Discovery. It's a cautionary tale like none other, and it's PACKED with guys who have the "courtship" crap down pat and the women who fall for it, much to their detriment.

 

 

I agree with this and I wonder if courting is the same as vetting.  

 

If Ashley is such an introvert, what's she doing on this show?  I would think a show like this would scare a true introvert.

 

My issue with David was when he said himself that he wants to be married but has problems dating.  On an earlier post I likened that to saying, "I want to have sex but I don't want to bother with foreplay."    Have any of these experts asked David why he has problems dating?  

 

It's hard to judge David and Ashley because he's not her physical type.  If he were and the same thing was happening, then I would have a different opinion.  Ashley said from day one that David wasn't the type of man she's normally attracted to and David said Ashley was beautiful and that has not changed.  

 

I think I understand why some feel David is creepy; it looks like he can't read Ashley's signals.  Maybe that's David's problem in dating, he can't read the signals, body language, etc.  However, David and Ashley are not dating, they're married and if Ashley has an issue she should communicate it to David, she should say, "Hey David, you're coming on too strong for me, I need time, I'm overwhelmed."  I think Ashley communicated more to us, the audience than she did to David.  

[Snarklepuss]

I don't know where people are getting the assumption that David is perfect. He absolutely isn't perfect. I am sure watching back, he would like to take back and change somethings (just guessing). I am guessing that with the public's treatment of season 2 maf guys, everything needs to be said and not assumed. I also think he is making sure he dots all the i's and crossing all the t's to ensure he isnt blamed for anything. That's why I thinks it looks like he is playing the camera. Does that make him a bad person? No. Would I do the same? Hell yeah. People are vicious on SM.

 

Thank you, ITA with you and ClareWalks on this.  It doesn't really matter how perfect or imperfect David is, he's going to look worse and get nowhere when paired with someone who just won't reciprocate or state her feelings whatsoever.   On the Ferris wheel, of course he's going to look clumsy when the woman he's with is giving mixed signals and leaving him hanging.  Of course he's going to look "needy and desperate" or "controlling" when trying to make a relationship work with someone who is wishy washy to him about how she feels.  Anyone would look that way if they got her treatment.  I agree with Jack Sampson that David doesn't need this crap, he could go to any bar and pick up women with no problem even if he was a little clumsy about it.  He's not a bad looking guy, he has a good career and a lot of women would see him as a "catch" (myself included). 

 

Contrast Ashley with Jaclyn from last season - Would Basement Ryan have acted as gentlemanly as David if Jaclyn jerked him around and didn't put him in the "friend zone" right off the bat?  No, he's actually the one that would have looked like a clumsy, sulking oaf.  But Jaclyn actually made him look better because she told him up front that she wasn't feeling it and that she just wanted to be friends for now and see if things developed over time.  So Ryan knew not to approach her unless she gave him a clear signal.  That was the 2x4 he needed to keep his distance.  Ashley didn't give David that courtesy because of her own hang-ups about communicating with him.  She let him go on for weeks thinking that perhaps she just needed him to take the lead or whatever.  So of course the guy is never going to back off enough.  She is actually the one who made the situation worse for herself by being vague and pretty much ruined any chance of her developing any romantic feelings for him.  She has to state how she feels and not expect the guy to be a mind reader.

 

I think some people are getting confused about what Ashley is saying in her talking heads versus what she is telling David.  Because she is completely open in her talking heads about not finding him attractive, but she even admits in them several times that she hasn't told him because she "doesn't want to hurt his feelings" (which I translate into that she doesn't want to be seen as a bad guy, not that she cares about HIM at all).  I think those talking heads were filmed after the fact and not in front of David so of course she is going to be more open in them than with him.  So she did not really open up to him and tell him the truth until Cilona made her do it in this past episode.  I still can't believe that after 3 weeks she didn't tell David herself and put the poor guy out of his misery.  She is so concerned with herself and her image that she couldn't even be a decent human being to the guy and just kept acting like he had a chance after all that time.  Don't get me started on how selfish that is!  Seriously, there is no excuse for that!!

Edited January 23, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Meliss]

Interesting. How do you feel about Neil and Sam? He is surely being abused.

Also Neil had expectations of how much he would be with Sam as well. He didn't think it was a good idea staying at her house with her roommate, etc. Is this also considered controlling?

I just do not see David as a horrible person. No, he's not perfect. And him tossing Ashley on the bed made me cringe because I knew she wouldn't find it amusing because she doesn't want him touching her. But SHE should have known better than to sign up for this. One, because of her outside commitments and two, because she is so narrow-minded in what she wants. I don't believe she was genuine in signing up for the show - unless she told the experts that dark features were a deal breaker for her and they completely ignored her. But even that wouldn't excuse the way she treats him. She couldn't have texted him back after he contacted her when she was late coming home? Or was his checking up on her controlling as well?

I don't think Ashley is ugly, but she is NOT warm, caring, open-minded or considerate (unless you are her dog). If I were David I would consider myself lucky to be done with her.

[cherry slushie]

What I wouldn't give to see Ashley paired with Ryan D. 

 

Even better, Ryan R.  We could watch them watch paint dry in his Mom's basement.

[ketose]

What struck me is that she did seem friendly on her diary cam & smiled a lot & said she wanted to have fun. However, when she is with him, all of that goes away.

She has a very reserved personality that most people find boring. It's called being an introvert & it does not show well on TV. Plus she finds herself uncomfortable with her new husband & stressed with school. She is the type that recharges being alone & he is the type that needs to be around others to recharge.

Some of her uncomfortableness is superficial because he is not her type, but we have seen women get over this in past seasons. She made the effort to be open & kind with his mom & friends.

My guess is that every time she lets her guard down to joke around with him, he goes in for the kill. So, she resorts back to not joking around with him because she is not ready for that.

obviously she doesn't have romantic feelings for him, which isn't his fault--but the fact is, she doesn't enjoy being around him. If he only knew how to form a friendship & get to know someone (who they really are, not their favorite color), this would have had a chance.

I also do not think she should have gone on the show because she worked & went to school full-time. She had homework on her wedding day, finals when she got back & is apparently in school full-time for nursing during clinicals. No one would plan a wedding with that amount of stress!

If Ashley does need to recharge her batteries (because she's a robot, get it?) from stressful situations, then the existing stress of nursing school is way too much. There's no way she should have gotten on this show given what she already had on her plate.

[lids]

Random thoughts:

Both times that Ashley was genuinely nice to David, it was because she thought he was in emotional distress. First, when he had the outburst about his Dad and the second time when he acted scared on the Ferris wheel. She wanted to be close to him and comfort him. Perhaps she is a "fixer" and is used to having to cheer up/nurture the man in the relationship and David's always chipper, always positive attitude has made her question what her role is to him.

People keep saying that Ashley decided when she saw David that she wasn't going to try, but we learned from Dr. C that her whole point in coming on the show was to break her pattern of choosing men she is physically attracted to who are not a match for her. It seems unlikely that she is just checking out because she is not attracted to David when that was her whole point of coming on the show.

Dr. C listed 3 reasons David and Ashley were matched. I can't remember them all but it was like shared religious beliefs, a similar work trajectory and something else. If this is where their connection lies, why don't the experts have them doing things within their interests that could help them bond? Why don't they go to church or volunteer or show Ashley taking David on a tour of her school. Ashley talks to him the most about her nursing stuff. She is still unanimated and stoic when she does it but at least she would be opening herself up and sharing. Plus David should show her what he does for a living because he would probably come off more attractive when he is all business like. Plus she likes his money so... Bonus!

Although I think the participants shutting down with their spouse is unfortunate, I actually don't think it's that uncommon now that we've seen so many married on TV reality shows. I vaguely remember the controversy way back when that Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire show came out and that winner signed up for the show, knew what her husband would look like, wanted to marry for money and still had the same exact deer caught in headlights reaction when she got to the point that she had to spend time with her husband. I'm pretty sure the conflict is internal and has less to do with what the partner looks like or acts like. I think people have major insecurities that make them think they are unlovable (shoutout Bachelor Ben!) and that makes them sabatoge before the other person can reject them. I think Sean suffered a lot from the same crippling fear last season.

Unpopular opinion, Dr. C is doing the best job out of the therapists. He's the only one that got Ashley to open up past the whole "stranger" talking point she likes to stick with. He is also the one Vanessa called and broke down to when she wasn't sure she could trust Tre. Most of all, I was really impressed that he recognized that Neil is an unreliable narrator of his OWN events. Neil was telling on himself for something he didn't even do (use bad communication that caused Sam to kick him out of the house) and Dr. C was just kind of like, "Nah, you're communication is fine." And then told Sam all about how wrong she was and Sam just sat there and shook her head agreeing. After, Neil said he felt a lot better because all he had heard for weeks was that his commutation skills were terrible. This is what the therapists SHOULD do. Offer clarity when it is necessary. Review tapes when it is necessary. Not tell people to share bathrooms as if that's a deeper form of intimacy.

[Meliss]

lids- so true & unfortunate that the other experts have done more harm than good!

[lavenderpenguin]

But that's exactly my point. To a guy like David, the light is either green or it's red. Either he can go all-out and try for all he can get, or he's been shot down in flames and it's over.

 

It would never occur to him that maybe the light is yellow. That maybe he could try a different approach. No, he'd rather go sulk by himself and text other women than try anything different.

 

And yes, he DID have a chance with her at first, even if a pudgy ginger wasn't what she was expecting. I still say David shot himself down with Ashley with his clumsy, pushy approach and refusal to try anything different, and that her coldness is due far more to his approach than to the chemistry.

 

Believe me, Ashley's best-looking guy in the world would get nowhere if he acted like David - but David would never believe that. He'd just blame her and "chemistry," and not look at his approach.

 

But that's okay. I'll wait for the tell-all article by Ashley once the show is over!

 

I doubt it. She has shown no warmth or inclination to get to know him. She might be an introvert -- but if she is, she is one that lacks any degree of self-awareness because this was not the right show for her (or rather, she should just stick to being a student and avoid TV altogether) at all. Jaclyn and Ryan's first few weeks are a wonderful example of what it looks like when a woman is unattracted but is still making a significant effort to at least be friends and get to know the other person. Did Ryan want intimacy at first -- duh, yes. But Jaclyn was able to successfully avoid physical contact she didn't want without turning into an ice queen or giving him the cold shoulder. 

 

Also, I think you are projecting quite a bit on David -- all of your assumptions about what he's thinking, what he does outside in the real world, etc. do not seem to be based in his reality, but rather yours. And I also think there's nothing wrong with him texting other women when it's clear that this marriage is a farce and Ashley is bidding her time till she can get out in six weeks. If it's painfully obvious to the viewers, I'm sure he's well aware of it at this point too, especially now that she's told him she's not attracted to him at all. And frankly, David has tried different approaches -- he's given her space (even on their honeymoon), cooked her dinner, taken her out for date (where he tried for a kiss -- which, even if they were in a normal dating situation, wouldn't be soon at all -- and if Ashley thought that was too much, too soon, then she's probably got some other issues going on -- and this is coming from a 24-year-old virgin who is all too familiar with the concept of moving slowly). I think the key here is that she's just not into him and the more "approaching" he does, the more he irritates her. 

Edited January 23, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[seasick]

None of these six people are perfect - no one is.  If they were really really good at relationships and reading signals, they wouldn't be here.   In order to really want to have someone else pick your mate (unless it's a cultural norm, maybe), you are admitting that you suck at picking Mr/Ms Right, and holding up your half of the relationship.   The supposed premise to this show is that the 'experts' match you up with people that should be your Mr/Ms Right and should fit with your relationship skills.   But, they seem to suck at that - or aren't really giving these couples needed support.  There should be daily checklists, exercises, and journals.  There should be daily required conversation topics for the couples.   That's not really happening.  It's also obvious the experts aren't watching footage during this process.

 

Sam should have failed the psych tests.  That much was obvious with her behavior in the minutes prior to the wedding.  Their six weeks should have been terminated as it's damaging, or Sam should have been told point blank by the experts on camera her behavior is inappropriate. 

. 

. 

 

 

I think this is a stellar idea.  In fact i've often thought that they should be sent on their honeymoon with tons of questions to share with each other, rather than the gratuitous "sex' questions for the sake of what they think will boost ratings.  

 

With Sam, I have often wondered what would have happened if it was a Man telling the Female mate   "I'm not physically attracted to you"  "you're not very feminine--I like a girly girl"  " "my parents told me to be patient but I don't think it's going to work in this situation"  "is that what you're wearing??"  "you need to 'girl up" and act more like a woman"    "I'll let you Betty Crocker it up while I hang in my man cave with my bro buddy"  and  "Please leave"   "I don't have a key. You can see when we're going to be here and co-ordinate with us to get in".    I agree it's pretty damaging stuff.  

[lavenderpenguin]

Soup333

Yes, 100% -Sam is abusive towards Neil. The difference is that a lot of people picked up on it & comment about it. Almost no one has about David. And I do see it as a cultural issue. There are mostly women commenting on the FB MAFS site & they are the ones waging war on Ashley for not reciprocating David's feelings & responding to his advances.

The commenters here see other things about her that make more sense-as in she should have communicated better with him and so on. Those are valid criticisms. The women on FB are really nasty to her & her parents said she was getting death threats (?). There's no verification of that, but the public is enraged over her & love to say how ugly she is.

As for David, they all love him/want to marry him/think he's so nice. I don't get that --As I said before, I do see a controlling & abusive nature. He's not as obvious as Sam, but red flags for sure.

 

What red flags? To be clear, I do not find David attractive at all (not my physical type, and something about his speaking voice annoys me), but that said, calling someone controlling and abusive is serious attack to make, and I just don't see it with him. I agree that he's clumsy, sometimes awkward, but I think it's because he's trying to force Ashley out of her shell and get her to show some emotion. Which is, frankly, to be expected when you pair an extreme introvert with an extreme extrovert. 

With Sam, I have often wondered what would have happened if it was a Man telling the Female mate   "I'm not physically attracted to you"  "you're not very feminine--I like a girly girl"  

 

I am fairly curious to see what would happen in that situation too -- it's been three seasons and we've yet to have a single husband claim to be unattracted to his wife. Or at least claim it in front of the cameras. I'd like to see how that would play out (even if it's only him voicing his concerns in the talking heads, and not to their spouse). I've always secretly thought Ryan D. wasn't *that* attracted to Jessica, but it was a non-issue because he was attracted enough to be intimate with her from day one.

Edited January 23, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[Evil Queen]

I finally was able to post about what I thought about the episode this week

Ashley and David
    While it was great that David's friends were there for him and the on said to just be friends with her.....obviously the guy doesn't realize even that doesn't work. That phone call was pathetic. I am with those saying production made her. While its nice that she was talking a little more but it was about laundry and cleaning there. That toss on the bed, she laughted. I didn't see her looking freaked out over it at all. It looked more like she was eeww over the dog kissing her after it. She even for once made light of things I thought with her comment on how Belle probably thought he was trying to kill her. I do wonder though if that whole scene was producer driven too and she was told to lighten up already. The whole thing of having sex. He hasn't pushed to do it at all but wants the affection. Which nothing wrong with wanting affection at all. I do think its funny how she hugged the one and not the other friend. She was chatting it up with the one alone though it looked like. I would think she should be doing the same and having some of her's around. Or do a group of them together. It is important part of things when these are people you spend time with and talk to all the time. Funny how they think we won't notice the TH shots and how they were obviously done earlier on and tossed in like it was now. LOL Honestly who the hell waits for a couple months for any kind of affection? Sex I can understand not jumping into but if she has to wait that long for anything else then she has issues she needs to deal with. Honestly with what she was saying to Dr. C about not even feeling like a dating couple he should have been like ok then you guys are done. Obviously this was not the way to test out a different kind of approach to a relationship. Dr. totally talked around the whole thing of her not being attracted to him. Instead of finding a way to move on they should have said ok we are done with you 2. Let's not go forward if you don't think you can't. He was basically asking them to just live together like nothing. What kind of crap was this? No affection at all no nothing. Sex I understand but sorry you can't even move on in a relationship if there is no affection. No sort of hand holding, no hugs, a kiss on the check. Sorry but if David was smart he would have said ok we can be done then. I can imagine he felt she wasn't totally into him but hearing it makes it real. This should have been said from the get go though. She could have found some way to say it without being Sam like about it I am sure. Yet she could have tried to be friends like and just said let's keep it all as friends. She couldn't do that though. Keep seeing a couple comments saying there are red flags on David being a controlling abuser but I don't see it at all. I have dealt with someone this way myself. Wasn't in a romantic relationship but a parent. I didn't realize it until I got older and once I saw it I stepped back and said no more. This I don't see it. I do see it with Sam though. Honestly all I see with Ashley and David is her controlling things in her own way before being made to say something. Which agian she should have done sooner. BTW, I will add that I don't see him as perfect or anyone. I just see him as having tried to do what he was told by the so called experts and what he signed up for. 

 

Sam and Neil

    What can anyone say with this one...ugh Of course she is more comfortable at her place. Easy to kick him out and keep him locked out with not giving him a key or room for things. Sorry that whole morning scene of them in bed was a joke. You can tell they didn't sleep together there and it was for filming. They didn't look like they just woke up but were "acting". The clock also said 11:43 and then magically didn't see it anymore. LOL That whole thing with being able to go to Sammie's room because its her sanctuary is a joke. Its not hard to make the damn key or costly. He should have stepped it up there but I think for him he just is playing along to let her keep stepping in it. Why would he be ok living there when she won't make room for him and give him a key plus they have a a third wheel on top of it.....omg She can't take shit. She is exactly what I thought she was. Its always about her. She will have more work to do after work (doubt she does much there but just enough to skirt on by). She doesn't even look at him when he is talking to her and he is looking at her. She barely even looks in to the camera when she is doing that part. She is so full of crap that she does what she can to avoid showing it. She makes faces like a little child over everything. She seriously is the most fake person on the show (Ashley following right behind her). This is why the show should have it in contract that they have to and must get a place together. She is claiming she can't click with him but gee why is that? Does she with anyone? Agree with those that said he shouldn't have apologized to her at all. She had no right to kick him out over that either as she thinks. She is a typical narcissist. Bully all they want and it has to be their way or the highway. Second its not then get out. Dr. C and the excuse about Sam's stress. UGH She will agree with anything the stupid experts say but yet its not how things really are and nothing will change with her. She is insane. Why is it always what she needs? What about him? Does he not see from how she was reacting that she wasn't listening to anything he said at all? I wanted to so badly smack Dr. C in the back of the head and ask him what about poor Neil? I bet Sam made sure to tell Neil over and over and over again what she wanted to do for her birthday too.

 

Vanessa and Tres

She was 18 when Daddy left right? I understand shit can be hard but she had him growing up from how it seemed. Did the Dad not talk to her anymore because of how she treated him during their divorce and she doesn't want to except her part in that? Or is it he truly just dropped his kids too? It does happen that the kids will side with a parent and stop talking to the other in those situations at times. I do have to wonder if she uses it as an excuse for when she isn't sure on the relationship and might want an out. I'm still not sure on Tres though really but she has some issues that I think go beyond Daddy at this point. Yet not like the other 2 couples. I have to say that my husband doesn't know his dad because he left when he was a baby still...yet he doesn't have all these trust issues or abandonment issues. My friend has it similar as well. Her dad left at some point but she doesn't have those issues either and never has with her husband. It seemed she understood that sometimes its better if the parents divorce though then try to stick it out. I do think she should have been paired with someone that could have come from a more stable background. The pairings that the experts do is so stupid with the reasoning behind them.

UGH does anyone else get annoyed by Dr. C's side mouth talking? The makeup on him was pretty heavy looking in some scenes.

And OMG the previews. Sam was fake crying there. I'm so tired of her crazy pathetic self. I don't see why David and Ashley will bother moving on from this whole mess at this point. Vanessa and Tres is just whatever at this point.

[Meliss]

Lavender penguin

I'm trying to be harsh towards you, but I did say the same thing about Sam & it didn't bother you.

[lavenderpenguin]

Lavender penguin

I'm trying to be harsh towards you, but I did say the same thing about Sam & it didn't bother you.

 

It did not bother me, because I, too, believe that Sam is abusive and I can pinpoint several particular red flags about her behavior that led me to that assumption. Essentially, I was not attacking you for calling David abusive -- simply stating that it is a serious allegation, and I'd be curious if you could elaborate on what red flags you see with him because I'm not seeing any. Like I mentioned, he's not my type, I don't find him attractive or particularly charming, but I've yet to see any red flag worthy controlling or abusive behavior with him toward Ashley.

 

With Sam, the red flags are obvious to me: (1) constant belittling of Neil -- trying to break down his self-confidence, questioning his manhood, treating him in a patronizing and aggressive manner (2) asking him to stand up to her, but then becoming upset/turning the situation around when he does (3) asking him to move into a space that's hers, and promptly kicking him out when the going gets tough, leaving him in a vulnerable position, (4) ignoring his needs, and then gaslighting him when he tries to pinpoint their problems [tells him that their problems are his communication issues, then when he communicates, she acts like the victim and makes him apologize for something she ASKED him to do].

 

So that's why your comment didn't bother me -- I see the red flags, and therefore, while I stand by my statement that it's a very serious allegation to throw out, it seems warranted and reasonable given the evidence we have in Sam's case.

Edited January 23, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[Soup333]

Soup333

Yes, 100% -Sam is abusive towards Neil. The difference is that a lot of people picked up on it & comment about it. Almost no one has about David. And I do see it as a cultural issue. There are mostly women commenting on the FB MAFS site & they are the ones waging war on Ashley for not reciprocating David's feelings & responding to his advances.

The commenters here see other things about her that make more sense-as in she should have communicated better with him and so on. Those are valid criticisms. The women on FB are really nasty to her & her parents said she was getting death threats (?). There's no verification of that, but the public is enraged over her & love to say how ugly she is.

As for David, they all love him/want to marry him/think he's so nice. I don't get that --As I said before, I do see a controlling & abusive nature. He's not as obvious as Sam, but red flags for sure.

 

Thanks for responding. I guess I just don't see him that way. As a matter of fact, I see him as very nervous and unsure around her. The way he keeps fiddling with his ring and falls into his verbal tics when he's uncomfortable - "I think we should like have bed time without like Belle. Not bed time bed time, but like alone time to like..." "Belle is like the ultimate like cockblock." Those are signs of discomfort, not the signs of someone trying to control the situation. I haven't seen anything of him on the show that would be red flags of a controlling or abusive nature. Of course, milage varies.

[eclectic]

They have few like-able people. Sam was more of a brat than ever. Amazing that she can't see how immature she is. I wish Neil would quit apologizing. Tres and Vanessa are pretty typical I think. I hope they can become more comfortable together. But then, Ryan and Jaclyn seemed to have it so good, and look how wrong we were about them! David needs to quit trying so hard. He comes across as needy. Just be friends I wonder what Ashley would have thought had she been paired with Neil? Haha. They picked some off-center people this season!

[BunnySlippers]

Very interesting conversation. I agree with some points from both sides (re David and Ashley). I think they both have reasons for why they behave the way they do, and IMHO the big problem is that they are just so, so badly matched that their approach just doesn't work with each other.

 

I do think that Ashley decided from the get-go that she was not into him, and she's just biding her time until this is over. Maybe she did say to the experts that she was trying to stop basing her relationships on physical attraction, but once she laid eyes on David, that commitment was out the window. I agree that she should have let him know that this was not going to work, but I think she's one of those people who were brought up not to rock the boat, not to stand up for themselves, just keep everything inside and not say anything (remember when she said that she was brought up with the mantra of "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all?"). I think she's uncomfortable telling him the truth. Not because she doesn't want to hurt his feelings (I don't really think she cares about that), but because she's just uncomfortable looking like the bad guy. I also think that, given her non-attraction to David and her personality, David's approach is not working with her. (Cue: her shocked and disbelieving reaction when he agreed not to push for intimacy.) She definitely should not have signed up for this show. Not with her schedule and not with her personality. It was totally unfair of the "experts" to pair her with someone like David.

 

As for David, I can understand his frustrations. I think he did come into this because he wanted to be married. I don't think his problem before this show was finding women to date. His problem was that he tended to go too fast, wanting to commit and take things seriously much faster than the women were comfortable with, and that chased those women away. I think we can see that behavior with Ashley, to be honest. Yes, he hears the ticking of the clock, and he wants to seal the deal before the 6 weeks are up, because he really, really wants to be married to someone. So he's trying and trying and trying. The problem is (at least, for me), that you can't push for physical intimacy with someone like Ashley before there's friendship and some kind of connection and attraction there. I don't blame him for trying to kiss her on the Ferris Wheel. But when she turned her cheek because she didn't want his tongue down her throat, he complained. To her. Not in his TH, but to her. And I think these are the kinds of things people noticed when they talk about his less-than-desirable approach.

 

I do agree that Jaclyn had a much better response to Basement Ryan in the beginning. She really wasn't into him at all, but she was still friendly and tried to have fun. But that's because that's her personality. She's outgoing and she's an even bigger extrovert than David. That's the kind of match David would have needed. Not someone like Ashley. And I agree that if he had been matched with someone like Jaclyn (and especially if that woman actually liked him), David would have come off much better on this show.

 

I also agree, wholeheartedly, that one problem is that the experts basically let these people drift along all by themselves. I don't know how much contact they have during the 6 weeks (during Season 2's fiasco Dr. C admitted that they don't really see any footage before the decision episode - or something like that), but they should absolutely change that rule. They should keep up with how things are going, and they should do their best to help these people get to know each other. And not with those stupid, invasive sex questions (IMHO those kinds of questions are way too early for most people at this stage). I think that's one problem David and Ashley have: they don't really talk, they don't do a lot of fun things together, they are not learning things about each other. And they are supposed to make a decision in 6 weeks. It just doesn't work.

Edited January 24, 2016 by BunnySlippers

[Lola16]

I don't know why anyone would sign up for this show with these so-called experts matching people who either responded to a casting call or were recruited off a dating app that is 100% looks based.  Since this show is in its 3rd year, the participants should know what they are getting into.  Yet, 6 of them signed up and only 1 appears to really want to find love and marriage.  1 participant is abusive.  1 is completely withdrawn and checked out.  1 is just going with the flow.  2 are needy balls of suck looking to polish their image on camera.  If any were serious, they should have worked on themselves prior to the show.  The amount of baggage is more than can be dealt with in 6 weeks.

 

Did they ever say why Ashley's & David's honeymoon was in AZ versus a more exotic location?

 

 

Suggesting he go willingly to the friendzone is exactly the same as saying he needs to be a eunuch. She would be fine with having him around if it wasn't for his pesky sex drive. If that didn't exist, the sham of a marriage would be going swell...assuming David pays her bills of course. That part she was fine with.



Certainly doesn't sound like valid reasons to stay. She doesn't have to return his affections, she doesn't have to be civil, but those are perfectly valid reasons for dumping her and finding a real woman.

What is David paying for?  The show picks up housing.  Could even be a per diem like other shows.  I don't see any evidence of gold-digging but then I missed the first show.

 

I haven't seen any incivility from anyone except Sam.

 

Equating eunuch with no sex for 6 weeks... one is a permanent condition.  This is a 6 week show.  The participants should go into it knowing that a love or lust connection might not happen and they just might have to go without for 6 weeks.

 

So what's your 'solution'?  Ashley should pretend to be into David and start fooling around with him because David wants it and after all they are married?

[Jack Sampson]

So what's your 'solution'?  Ashley should pretend to be into David and start fooling around with him because David wants it and after all they are married?

My solution has been consistent and clear. If nothing physical is likely to happen, move on. David can find someone else by the end of the weekend.

[lavenderpenguin]

I don't know why anyone would sign up for this show with these so-called experts matching people who either responded to a casting call or were recruited off a dating app that is 100% looks based.  Since this show is in its 3rd year, the participants should know what they are getting into.  Yet, 6 of them signed up and only 1 appears to really want to find love and marriage.  1 participant is abusive.  1 is completely withdrawn and checked out.  1 is just going with the flow.  2 are needy balls of suck looking to polish their image on camera.  If any were serious, they should have worked on themselves prior to the show.  The amount of baggage is more than can be dealt with in 6 weeks.

 

Did they ever say why Ashley's & David's honeymoon was in AZ versus a more exotic location?

 

 

What is David paying for?  The show picks up housing.  Could even be a per diem like other shows.  I don't see any evidence of gold-digging but then I missed the first show.

 

I haven't seen any incivility from anyone except Sam.

 

Equating eunuch with no sex for 6 weeks... one is a permanent condition.  This is a 6 week show.  The participants should go into it knowing that a love or lust connection might not happen and they just might have to go without for 6 weeks.

 

So what's your 'solution'?  Ashley should pretend to be into David and start fooling around with him because David wants it and after all they are married?

 

Does it? Then why are different couples given different quality housing? Or allowed to move in with the other person, if that's what they choose? It would seem that if they were each given a certain amount for housing, they would end up with similar results in terms of the quality of the space, but that hasn't seemed to be the case in the last three seasons. It would also make those money discussions moot (e.g. discussing what they can afford to rent for the six weeks), but then again, who knows? 

Edited January 24, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[Lola16]

David signed up for the show.  I doubt there's a guarantee of sex and/or affection.  If he can't handle 6 weeks without it, then matching him with someone who claims to take months... fail.

Does it? Then why are different couples given different quality housing? Or allowed to move in with the other person, if that's what they choose? It would seem that if they were each given a certain amount for housing, they would end up with similar results in terms of the quality of the space, but that hasn't seemed to be the case in the last three seasons. It would also make those money discussions moot (e.g. discussing what they can afford to rent for the six weeks), but then again, who knows? 

Who pays for the honeymoon?

 

I think the rent discussions are valid even if the show pays for it.  Allegedly, they are choosing a home to live in together past the 6 weeks.  They should choose something they can afford.  Perhaps the show gives them a budget based on their income or current rent?   I doubt these people are expected to pay their own rents/mortgages on their premarital home and also pay for a joint home.  That would create extreme financial stress for some of the participants.

[lavenderpenguin]

David signed up for the show.  I doubt there's a guarantee of sex and/or affection.  If he can't handle 6 weeks without it, then matching him with someone who claims to take months... fail.

Who pays for the honeymoon?

 

I think the rent discussions are valid even if the show pays for it.  Allegedly, they are choosing a home to live in together past the 6 weeks.  They should choose something they can afford.  Perhaps the show gives them a budget based on their income or current rent?   I doubt these people are expected to pay their own rents/mortgages on their premarital home and also pay for a joint home.  That would create extreme financial stress for some of the participants.

 

It's unclear -- but again, it's strange that the locations/quality of the honeymoons varies. That's why I think that the show covers some costs, but not all of them. 

 

I don't remember where I read it (perhaps on here) but I don't think the show actually pays them (or if it does, it's very minimal). They're basically volunteering to be Z-list celebs with little compensation. I might be wrong but that's my understanding -- feel free to correct me if you've heard otherwise.

Edited January 24, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[Lola16]

It's unclear -- but again, it's strange that the locations/quality of the honeymoons varies. That's why I think that the show covers some costs, but not all of them. 

 

I don't remember where I read it (perhaps on here) but I don't think the show actually pays them (or if it does, it's very minimal). They're basically volunteering to be Z-list celebs with little compensation. I might be wrong but that's my understanding -- feel free to correct me if you've heard otherwise.

I've heard varying amounts.  If the show (production company) doesn't compensate, then how could the participants be doing this for money?   I'd think if there was no compensation, there'd be a lot more staying in their own places and a lot more arguing during the house search.  I didn't watch the prior seasons so perhaps there were fame-whores/self-promoters on those seasons but I don't see any obvious modes/actors/etc on this season.

[frenchtoast]

Folks, a friendly reminder: it's ok to disagree, it's ok to see things/people/situations differently. Consensus and agreement are not required. What is required is to Be Civil. It's starting to get a tad, smidge, teensy bit heated in here and it's starting to feel like the discussion is going in circles. It feels like everyone has had their say and maybe it would be best to move on.  Also, it's best to not bring up discussions that are happening on Facebook and other places on the Internet. It adds nothing to conversation and it seems to accuse posters here of "thinking wrong" which is definitely not cool. Thanks!

[BunnySlippers]

I saw a post somewhere that quoted Ashley saying that David did not pay for the house. The production company did. I agree with Lola16; I think the participants must discuss how much they could afford if they stayed in a house after the 6 weeks, and the show pays that much while they are filming. There was also a quote somewhere from someone from the production company saying that they pay some (supposedly, minimal) amount of money to the participants. I don't know who pays for the honeymoon.

[Palomar]

If David is so invested in being married, then he should act like he's married all the way through.  It seems like it's OK to some posters that he gave 110% for 3 weeks but since Ashley is giving 10% (in their eyes), it's OK for David to step out.  I never think it's OK to step out.  If you want out, get out.  In this case, it's a 6 week gig.  He's got an out coming up.

 

I thought this thread was a non-spoiler thread?  Anything I have written has been based upon what has happened up through and including this episode.  I didn't realize we were talking about future episodes that most of us have not seen yet.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Palomar

[Snarklepuss]

Even better, Ryan R.  We could watch them watch paint dry in his Mom's basement.

 

Yes, and listen to him ask over and over, "So hey Ashley, do you wanna put me in the friend zone, or no?"

[mythoughtis]

I thought this thread was a non-spoiler thread?  Anything I have written has been based upon what has happened up through and including this episode.  I didn't realize we were talking about future episodes that most of us have not seen yet

 

 

The discussion about David texting another woman is from the previews that were shown at the end of the wedding episode.  We don't know why they chose to show previews that far in advance.  However, the episode synopsis for next week mentions it 

[Gigi43]

Truly I started to see something in David on their honeymoon that bothered me. At the time I thought I may be jumping to conclusions because of my personal experiences. I also thought I may be over-reacting because as a social

worker, I work with perpetrators & victims of domestic violence. I do tend to be more protective.

However, he has a controlling nature that worries me. There are lots of examples of this. He has expectations about how much they are together & how she should be interacting with him. He feels like she should give in to his advances because they are married--even in real-life marriage, no one should forced to do things they are not comfortable with.

 

 

  David and Ashley are in a relationship that's also a job with contracts, though. He's had to push her on some things, such as plowing through with the Fishbowl questions (which he tried to make fun so she'd be comfortable) even though Ashley didn't want too because the show likes doing that every season. If Ashley sits in her room and studies/does HW, Production is probably going to dislike it even more than David, especially on the Honeymoon where Production has paid for them to go away to interact as all the other couples from every season did. One person should not force another person to do anything, but when someone willingly signs a contract to be on TV they do have to give material relating to the situation for airing. Ashley signing up for the show while being in school is a problem she created. It's a reasonable expectation by David to expect the person he was matched with to part take in certain activities and give the relationship a certain amount of attention because they literally signed up for it.  As a nurse Ashley is paid an amount to give all patients a certain level of care no matter what she thinks of them, it's the job.  She is being paid to be on this show, in the "experiment", so it goes beyond the scope of what should be expected in a real relationship, she agreed to do this with whomever they gave her and if she isn't going to give him time for basic conversation or participate in the tasks by the experts, she's breaking that. I've said it in other posts some of this could be David worrying the show will be annoyed and he's trying to just get some kind of material for them so as to not be seen as breaking the agreement. It doesn't seem like Ashley attempted to give the money back in order to bail out early of the relationship and situations that supposedly make her so, so, uncomfortable. She wants the payday but not to work. David has come off to me more as someone trying to do both their jobs since Ashley isn't doing her share more than anything.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Gigi43

[ctbabe]

David and Ashley are in a relationship that's also a job with contracts, though. He's had to push her on some things, such as plowing through with the Fishbowl questions (which he tried to make fun so she'd be comfortable) even though Ashley didn't want too because the show likes doing that every season. If Ashley sits in her room and studies/does HW, Production is probably going to dislike it even more than David, especially on the Honeymoon where Production has paid for them to go away to interact as all the other couples from every season did. One person should not force another person to do anything, but when someone willingly signs a contract to be on TV they do have to give material relating to the situation for airing. Ashley signing up for the show while being in school is a problem she created. It's a reasonable expectation by David to expect the person he was matched with to part take in certain activities and give the relationship a certain amount of attention because they literally signed up for it. As a nurse Ashley is paid an amount to give all patients a certain level of care no matter what she thinks of them, it's the job. She is being paid to be on this show, in the "experiment", so it goes beyond the scope of what should be expected in a real relationship, she agreed to do this with whomever they gave her and if she isn't going to give him time for basic conversation or participate in the tasks by the experts, she's breaking that. I've said it in other posts some of this could be David worrying the show will be annoyed and he's trying to just get some kind of material for them so as to not be seen as breaking the agreement. It doesn't seem like Ashley attempted to give the money back in order to bail out early of the relationship and situations that supposedly make her so, so, uncomfortable. She wants the payday but not to work. David has come off to me more as someone trying to do both their jobs since Ashley isn't doing her share more than anything.

Good point Gigi.. I feel he had her back multiple times. He never ratted her out and he picked up the slack.

[Snarklepuss]

Yes, Gigi, ITA.  I've made similar points many times.  David doesn't want anyone saying he didn't keep his end of the contract.  He clearly feels that Ashley is not keeping hers.   Although I'm not sure it involves that much money.  Production has said publicly that the participants don't receive more than a nominal "stipend".  I'm not sure I believe that.  They may receive other perks or compensation that aren't technically a cash payout.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[BunnySlippers]

Yes, Gigi, ITA.  I've made similar points many times.  David doesn't want anyone saying he didn't keep his end of the contract.  He clearly feels that Ashley is not keeping hers.   Although I'm not sure it involves that much money.  Production has said publicly that the participants don't receive more than a nominal "stipend".  I'm not sure I believe that.  They may receive other perks or compensation that aren't technically a cash payout.

 

That's what I think, too.

[ClareWalks]

Totally agree...at the very least, all their living expenses are paid for during the experiment, including the "date nights" they are encouraged to take. Free wedding, honeymoon, living expenses for 6 weeks, and then probably a stipend on top of that. Who knows what the network's idea of "nominal" is, but I'd consider $15-20K to be enough to sway someone to do this. (Not someone like ME, but SOMEONE.)

[BBDi]

I would love to know what the $$ arrangements are too. In order to attract people there's got to be some $$ incentive, and it's got to cover all the expenses related with being on the show, as noted above.

There's also got to be some incentive to stay on board for the full 6-weeks, otherwise people would just bail if they didn't like who they got matched with.

At the same time, they can't be offering big bucks outright or they'd attract people who people who are only doing it for the $$.

[kam]

I would love to know what the $$ arrangements are too. In order to attract people there's got to be some $$ incentive, and it's got to cover all the expenses related with being on the show, as noted above.

There's also got to be some incentive to stay on board for the full 6-weeks, otherwise people would just bail if they didn't like who they got matched with.

At the same time, they can't be offering big bucks outright or they'd attract people who people who are only doing it for the $$.

stipend of 15k sounds pretty normal to me, I couldn't imagine them not paying these people a stipend( Sag is involved) I'm sure. It is a form of labor and the network makes money off of them. Just like any reality show.

Plus the covered expenses like the wedding etc...

I'm also sure they help with the alternative housing for the 6 weeks, that makes sense to me because these people already have an active lease.

There is no way in hell they get 100k. I'm sure they wish they did though lol

[ketose]

I think it's the penalty more than the stipend. Breach of contract can have ridiculous penalties of like $1 million. That's usually for stuff like giving way the ending to the show. I'm not sure how they handle minor stuff like being a dead fish during the show.

[BBDi]

I think it's the penalty more than the stipend. Breach of contract can have ridiculous penalties of like $1 million. That's usually for stuff like giving way the ending to the show. I'm not sure how they handle minor stuff like being a dead fish during the show.

LOLing at the dead fish part.

Forget Neil and David, I think it's the producers and staff who have really been on the ropes this season. Would love to hear the scoop from them someday, though I guess that's unlikely.

[Evil Queen]

Not sure what is the case with paying for things but I know a few have said in the past that maybe they pay the rent/mortgage on the place they were in before the show and the couples have to pay for the rent on the place they get together. Which if that is the case, such as with Sam wanting to live in her own home, I would think they would stop payment. I can imagine if it was paying out that way it would make some sense since most these people would never be able to afford to rents. I will bet they pay for the honeymoon. With that one it would be interesting to see why the AZ one though. Why not not fit the bill so these couples do more to spend the time together doing fun things as well to get to know each other and what they like to do outside the house. I also think the fish bowl should include more questions in them that are get to know each other's likes and dislikes. It doesn't need to be a sex bowl but mix things up. I think no matter what though with Ashley she wouldn't have answered if it had asked her favorite color though or flower. Yet considering how long they have known each other when they get these it should really include so much more to it. Otherwise it is pointless.  

[izabella]

I heard them say for one of the couples (can't remember which couple)  that the wedding party pooled funds together to pay for the honeymoon.  I didn't actually believe that at the time I heard it, and I still don't.