S20.E03: Week 3

[lightbeam]

They should've kept in that scene during the date where Jubilee taught Ben that dance. It was cute and less awkward then some of the stuff they kept in.

Where did you see that?

[In2You]

Where did you see that?

At the end of this clip

[lightbeam]

At the end of this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltHetsvXJIw

Thank you for posting that! He was terrible (lol) but the clip was really adorable.

[atlanticslide]

I also expect to see certain minimum standards of conduct, especially from somebody who has worn one of my country's military uniforms.  Small, seemingly inconsequential behaviors like spitting out food in public can have dire consequences in foreign locals.  And no, she's not still in uniform, but simply on a silly TV show filmed in California.  But her actions speak to an immaturity level that I don't respect.  Not a huge deal in the overall scheme of things, just something distasteful to me personally.  

I'm sorry, I think this is utterly ridiculous. She wasn't in uniform at the time, she wasn't overseas at the time, she wasn't in a situation in which spitting food out should have any more dire consequences than some people talking about it online. She may have been in the military but that doesn't mean the military should dictate all aspects of her life forever; she's a human being. Human beings occasionally act outside of the utmost standards of conduct, and this particular one is up for some debate. While you may think that spitting food into a napkin is a huge faux pas, I think turning away, putting a napkin over your mouth, and spitting the food into it in a way that no one will actually be able to see is perfectly polite. To be honest, I find the idea that she can't ever step a toe out of line even in the most mild action just because she once donned a military uniform rather offensive.

[NikSac]

At the end of this clip

 

Thank you!! I knew I'd seen it somewhere but I couldn't remember where. I just watched it again and it's still really cute and funny.

[truthaboutluv]

I'm sorry, I think this is utterly ridiculous. She wasn't in uniform at the time, she wasn't overseas at the time, she wasn't in a situation in which spitting food out should have any more dire consequences than some people talking about it online. She may have been in the military but that doesn't mean the military should dictate all aspects of her life forever; she's a human being. Human beings occasionally act outside of the utmost standards of conduct, and this particular one is up for some debate. While you may think that spitting food into a napkin is a huge faux pas, I think turning away, putting a napkin over your mouth, and spitting the food into it in a way that no one will actually be able to see is perfectly polite. To be honest, I find the idea that she can't ever step a toe out of line even in the most mild action just because she once donned a military uniform rather offensive.

 

This so much. As they like to say on Buzzfeed, "well that escalated quickly." Suddenly a simple awkward spitting out of food on a lame reality show is especially offensive because Jubilee wore one of the nation's military uniforms. I would think if it was that serious, her even appearing on this god awful embarrassing reality show would already be besmirching the uniform. And honestly, considering the joke that is the current political race in this country, I don't think Jubilee's spitting some food in a napkin even merits a blimp on the offense to the nation scale. 

Edited January 23, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[MakeMeLaugh]

I'd still thank her for her service. :)

[yorklee2]

 

I was one of the ones who criticized her and I heard Ben say that.  I don't see that it makes any difference. I don't ask my date for permission before I do something that I know is considered bad manners.  He's not her dad.

I really do understand why some people consider it bad manners. If I were in a restaurant around other people I would think twice about doing something like that but in a one on one situation and it was extremely gross to me I might. I've never tasted caviar, (and from the sound of it I don't want to) but I'm reminded of a tv show that used to air called Fear Factor. They were required to eat extremely gross things like worms and bugs to stay in the competition. I use to think that's proof that people would do anything for money...lol. I can see myself trying certain foods to be polite but maybe not being able to tolerate it. Like snails..yuck.

 

I didn't see it as Jubilee asking for permission though. She just had a look on her face like she really didn't like it and he reacted to that by telling her to do her thing. I'm sure she would have do it anyway but the fact that he was cool with it and let her know it said a lot about him I think. Just a really mature, laid back man. I had some reservations about him because we didn't see much of his personality on Kaitlyn's season and what we did he just seemed kind of bland and stiff. Now I'm thinking that was because he just wasn't into her that much. But he is really showing himself to be a kind, mature, reasonable man on this season. I like him a lot.

[catrice2]

Did she say her all that? I know I fast forwarded a lot, but really??  I know a lot of people did not take to her, but it is foolish for any of us to  think that we know any of these women from what the editors so selectively show.   I'm sure that they all get together and sit back and laugh at how silly they look once the show gets finished clipping and snipping...and getting angry at how easily they were manipulated. 

 

Caviar is not very appealing to me either, but I'm sure she should have been GRATEFUL for the experience.  So, from what I read the girl Amber has been on the show twice before?  My goodness, I've been to Chicago...it can't be that hard to find a man....but then again, isn't she one of the ones whose hair I was curious about?  I know it is shallow, but men do pay attention to hair. 

 

Not so invested, but are the Bachelor's ever really handsome?  Sean, Shawn, whatever, lives locally so they showed him in the paper, and when I went back through a few pictures online I could only wonder WHY the women would be fighting or competing for those men.  Do they get to know who the Bachelor is before they sign up for the show?

[NikSac]

Caviar is not very appealing to me either, but I'm sure she should have been GRATEFUL for the experience.  So, from what I read the girl Amber has been on the show twice before?  My goodness, I've been to Chicago...it can't be that hard to find a man....but then again, isn't she one of the ones whose hair I was curious about?  I know it is shallow, but men do pay attention to hair. 

 

Not so invested, but are the Bachelor's ever really handsome?  Sean, Shawn, whatever, lives locally so they showed him in the paper, and when I went back through a few pictures online I could only wonder WHY the women would be fighting or competing for those men.  Do they get to know who the Bachelor is before they sign up for the show?

 

I personally thought Chris was handsome (until he started talking), but I know tastes vary. I think Ben's pretty good looking too, and unlike many Bachelors he seems to improve the more he talks. From what I've read I don't think they get to know the Bach much beforehand unless it happens to be one they watched. I don't think they know who it is before they get there. Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

To your first point I have no desire to eat caviar, ever - it sounds completely gross and I don't get the point. I also have a severe shellfish allergy, and if I bit into something I thought might be lethal I'd be spitting it out into a napkin in a heartbeat, so I had no problem with what Jubilee did - and apparently neither did Ben, even if it was just because she thought it was icky.

[Canada]

I don't think it was rude of Jubilee to spit out the food because she once wore a uniform.  I think it's rude period.  Anyone who would spit out food, whether on TV or not, whether they have 'permission' or not, whether in uniform or not, is classless and rude.  People don't have manners anymore.  I make no apologies for having good manners and expecting others to have them as well.

[chocolatine]

I've never tasted caviar, (and from the sound of it I don't want to) but I'm reminded of a tv show that used to air called Fear Factor. They were required to eat extremely gross things like worms and bugs to stay in the competition.

 

Caviar is a delicacy that many people love and pay a lot of money for; it's not remotely the same thing as the insects eaten on a dare on reality shows. It can be an acquired taste - when I first tasted it at five years old, I didn't immediately love it, but I wouldn't have dreamed of spitting it out; spitting out food was not an option in my family. I really got into caviar after I tried it a couple of times and if I could afford to I would eat it more often. I don't really see why Jubilee had to make it into such a big deal. From what I saw, it was maybe 1/4 of a teaspoon of black caviar (which is a lot less "fishy" and "slimy" then red, even though I love both) on top of a bite-sized piece of smoked salmon on top of a cracker. She could have just quickly swallowed it and washed away the taste with a few sips of champagne, and that could have been the end of it.

Edited January 24, 2016 by chocolatine

[In2You]

I don't think it was rude of Jubilee to spit out the food because she once wore a uniform.  I think it's rude period.  Anyone who would spit out food, whether on TV or not, whether they have 'permission' or not, whether in uniform or not, is classless and rude.  People don't have manners anymore.  I make no apologies for having good manners and expecting others to have them as well.

So in that case then if someone was eating something and realized it had something in it that they were allergic too they shouldn't spit it out?

[Canada]

So in that case then if someone was eating something and realized it had something in it that they were allergic too they shouldn't spit it out?

 

That's a specious argument.  Jubilee didn't spit the food out because she was allergic to it.  She spit it out when she realised it wasn't high class food like a hot dog.  And people with food allergies are generally intelligent enough to ask about potential allergens before they put an unknown food in their mouth.

[roses]

Did she say her all that? I know I fast forwarded a lot, but really?? I know a lot of people did not take to her, but it is foolish for any of us to think that we know any of these women from what the editors so selectively show. I'm sure that they all get together and sit back and laugh at how silly they look once the show gets finished clipping and snipping...and getting angry at how easily they were manipulated.

I agree editing is a massive thing an example this episode makes you think Jubilee is a massive outcast and anti social who doesn't hang with the girls, but Becca posted a cute video of what they were doing in the Bachelor mansion and some of the girls including Jubilee were there being silly and having fun. Edited January 24, 2016 by roses

[atlanticslide]

I don't think it was rude of Jubilee to spit out the food because she once wore a uniform.  I think it's rude period.  Anyone who would spit out food, whether on TV or not, whether they have 'permission' or not, whether in uniform or not, is classless and rude.  People don't have manners anymore.  I make no apologies for having good manners and expecting others to have them as well.

It's not that people have no manners anymore; it's that different people have different beliefs about what constitutes "good manners". To me and in my general experience where I grew up and where I live, covering your mouth with a napkin and spitting food into it when you can't eat it is good manners.

[In2You]

That's a specious argument.  Jubilee didn't spit the food out because she was allergic to it.  She spit it out when she realised it wasn't high class food like a hot dog.  And people with food allergies are generally intelligent enough to ask about potential allergens before they put an unknown food in their mouth.

But you just said its rude to spit out food,period. Um people can have a food allergy and not know it. I've worked in the food industry and can name plenty of examples of people who had food allergies without realizing it because they had never tried something before. 

[yorklee2]

Caviar is a delicacy that many people love and pay a lot of money for; it's not remotely the same thing as the insects eaten on a dare on reality shows. It can be an acquired taste - when I first tasted it at five years old, I didn't immediately love it, but I wouldn't have dreamed of spitting it out; spitting out food was not an option in my family. I really got into caviar after I tried it a couple of times and if I could afford to I would eat it more often. I don't really see why Jubilee had to make it into such a big deal. From what I saw, it was maybe 1/4 of a teaspoon of black caviar (which is a lot less "fishy" and "slimy" then red, even though I love both) on top of a bite-sized piece of smoked salmon on top of a cracker. She could have just quickly swallowed it and washed away the taste with a few sips of champagne, and that could have been the end of it.

Maybe I didn't choose my words well but I didn't mean that caviar was the same as bugs and such. I was simply saying that speaking of things people can't tolerate to eat reminded me of that tv show. Honestly what I would probably do ( which I do with all foods I'm not sure about) is take a very tiny bite so that if I don't like it, it won't be to hard to finish it and wash it down with my drink. So even though I don't think I would try it IF I was put in a situation where it might be considered rude not too then I would take a very small bite. I do think it's bad manners to spit out your food for the most part but I do realize there are exceptions. Some people would literally be sick if they tried to force it down. So I'm not to hung up on it. Like I stated as long as it's done in a proper way. I think grown adults can tell the difference. But that's just my opinion just as it's anyone's opinion who disagrees with me. I certainly never meant to offend anyone.

 

Edited January 24, 2016 by yorklee2

[Canada]

But you just said its rude to spit out food,period. Um people can have a food allergy and not know it. I've worked in the food industry and can name plenty of examples of people who had food allergies without realizing it because they had never tried something before. 

 

But if they don't know they have a food allergy, why would they spit the food out?  If someone unknowingly has an allergic reaction to something they eat, generally they've swallowed it before a reaction occurs, even in the most severe cases.  Um.

[catrice2]

At this stage, I will be happy when Jubilee is eliminated so that all the blogs, etc.can stop dissecting her life and everything she does.  The Bachelor is not going to be the show to solve racial issues or promote inter racial romance. 

 

I don't watch regularly, but if you Google you can see all kinds of blogs, tweets, articles, etc. on this episode, what it means, if there were racial overtones, is Jubilee crazy, rude, immoral, disgusting, ugly,gross etc.etc. These women live in a pressure cooker for days trying to compete for some man in an unconventional way. They embarrass themselves, shame their families and many have nothing to hold on to except coming home and being able to go to any Bachelor related events and parties and talk about the experience with their friends.  I'm sure for some it is their claim to fame. 

 

I can only imagine the outrage when she is eliminated (like what 15 or 20 other women this season will be? ) and the speculation about what happened, and why it happened,  or how people who were supporting her will turn against her if she ends up doing something crazy (that black eye has not been shown) or saying something crazy (Jamie??!!). I can see headlines about how she brought it on herself by being "difficult to get along with," 

 

I disagree with an earlier post. There was a snippet of the first blonde date (LB?)  participating in the gossip.  All of them did to some degree.  It seems to me that after Ben told them about his day,a few had the sense to be ashamed of being so petty earlier and drew back (hence Caila?'s comment about being unfair and ganging up) and others just kept engaging in the drama, but overall at some point in that day they were all shown saying something or sitting in a group co signing on what was being said.  No one got a good edit in this show, including Jubilee.  

 

I realized too that initially I was falling for the editing. I initially stated I thought she had issues the show was trying to exploit, but who am I to say that?  Again, the editing was done in such a way to invoke emotion. I think if anything Jubilee is realizing that this show is just not for her as she thought. Or at least I hope she is regretting taking part in this social experiment.  Is she a model or trying for an entertainment career?  I can't think of anything other than trying to use this show as a stepping stone as a reason to go on. If it is true that there are videos of them doing fun things and getting along with her interacting with the others, then that makes what was shown even more baffling. It is also crazy when people speculate she can't get along with Caucasian women when her mother is Caucasian, and she possibly has white siblings. 

 

My understanding is that the end has already been spoiled. You would think the network would be able to have better control, but I guess with social medial, camera phones, etc. there is no way to film this without spoilers leaking. 

 

Chris whomever has a strange mouth, and a lot of the other former Bachelor pictures I looked at the men just looked like boozers.  Ben is an attractive man...I'm so old he just seems like a nice boy...ha, ha!  But overall, if the show is just boring and I can't believe they stretch it to 2 hours!  The girls are bland and boring and everything just seems so generic.  If it is like this every year it is hard for me to see how people watch.  By now every girl knows how to go on and say the right things, how to get camera attention, etc.  I'm sure the Bachelors say the same thing over and over to the women as well.  These girls are not looking for love, they are looking for fame and the attention of diamond  and wedding paid for by someone else. 

I disagree.  Sometimes people don't realize an allergen is in the food until AFTER they take a bite. My sister has severe allergies and carries an Epi Pen. There have been numerous times when she bites into something and realizes it has nuts or something else in it (from the taste or crunch) that she was unaware of.  I believe the poster was talking about those times, not when you eat something and discover later that you had an allergy to it. 

[Padma]

It's not that people have no manners anymore; it's that different people have different beliefs about what constitutes "good manners". To me and in my general experience where I grew up and where I live, covering your mouth with a napkin and spitting food into it when you can't eat it is good manners.

That's how I see it, too. I'd be very upset if someone I was dining with found some food item inedible or unpleasant in some way and choked it down just to be "polite". That's not an enjoyable experience for anyone, imo.

 

I loved how it was no big deal to Ben--he just wanted her to be comfortable and have a good time. For those of you who think she was rude to not eat something she disliked, what would you have said or done about it if you were Ben?

 

I remember a dinner in a fancy restaurant in China. The wealthy local man next to me ate something he didn't like. He reached INTO his mouth, pulled out the piece of food, and put it on the napkin between us. It was a bit gross, I admit, but perfectly polite in that locale/culture for that particularly part of the country. Maybe there are some parts of the U.S. (or cultures in the U.S.) where these kinds of things matter more than others.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Padma

[yorklee2]

 

It's not that people have no manners anymore; it's that different people have different beliefs about what constitutes "good manners". To me and in my general experience where I grew up and where I live, covering your mouth with a napkin and spitting food into it when you can't eat it is good manners.

Exactly. You said it so well.

[truthaboutluv]

I honestly cannot believe this is even a thing - that this woman is practically being crucified because she spat some food out in a napkin on an all around tacky reality show where hot-tubs show up in the middle of nowhere because must get that hot-tub makeout action into the episode. Like did I miss when this show became high brow on any level? Again, seriously this is all because she spat some food she hated into a napkin...wow. Well, okay then. 

[C76]

That's a specious argument.  Jubilee didn't spit the food out because she was allergic to it.  She spit it out when she realised it wasn't high class food like a hot dog.  And people with food allergies are generally intelligent enough to ask about potential allergens before they put an unknown food in their mouth.

 

I've only had caviar in small quantities, and I didn't mind it. I also have nothing against hot dogs. That said, there's something that I'm allergic to, and in the past I've not always remembered to mention it when eating out, etc. Furthermore, there are foods that I absolutely despise. 

 

I know the way my allergen and despised food items taste. I have also seen recipes where their use has caught me by surprise. In the past I've had no qualms about (politely) removing something I can't or don't want to eat from my mouth, and I doubt I ever will.

 

It's not that people have no manners anymore; it's that different people have different beliefs about what constitutes "good manners". To me and in my general experience where I grew up and where I live, covering your mouth with a napkin and spitting food into it when you can't eat it is good manners.

 

Thank you. People are not obligated to ingest something simply because they take a bite of it. 

 

Other thoughts about this episode?

 

When I watch Olivia, I can't help but wonder how much of her behaviour is due to editing and the producers' meddling.

Edited January 24, 2016 by C76

[backformore]

I'm sorry, I think this is utterly ridiculous. She wasn't in uniform at the time, she wasn't overseas at the time, she wasn't in a situation in which spitting food out should have any more dire consequences than some people talking about it online. She may have been in the military but that doesn't mean the military should dictate all aspects of her life forever; she's a human being. Human beings occasionally act outside of the utmost standards of conduct, and this particular one is up for some debate. While you may think that spitting food into a napkin is a huge faux pas, I think turning away, putting a napkin over your mouth, and spitting the food into it in a way that no one will actually be able to see is perfectly polite. To be honest, I find the idea that she can't ever step a toe out of line even in the most mild action just because she once donned a military uniform rather offensive.

I agree.   I have been in the situation where I took a bite of something that I had mis-identified as something else, and the taste triggered my gag reflex.   There were no cameras around, and I don't think anyone noticed as a discreetly pushed it out of my mouth into a napkin.  What are you supposed to do in that situation?  I think that seafood in particular can make some people gag if they're not used to it.  I don't understand what the criticism is, or what people expected her to do.  Choking down food that makes you gag is not a good idea.

 

In other news, SNL did a pretty good parody of The Bachelor, especially the part where he has 30 second "conversations"  with women, who are then interrupted with "can I steal him?" 

Edited January 24, 2016 by backformore

[himela]

If I were on a date with a guy I liked I would definitely not put in my mouth a food that I was not sure I'd like OR if I did I would warn him first that there is a huge possibility I'd spit it so I would lighten the mood. Either way it was bizarre the way it happened but I'm all for spontaneity and feeling comfortable on a date because if you don't, well then maybe this man or woman is not suitable for you. In real life this incident would be a memory for the couple to remember and laugh about but here it has become the major issue of the week. Weird.

[JudyObscure]

 

I honestly cannot believe this is even a thing - that this woman is practically being crucified because she spat some food out in a napkin on an all around tacky reality show ...

Crucified?  Really?  I liked Jubilee and said as much earlier in this thread, but someone brought up the spitting food incident and it branched off into a debate about whether or not it was ever okay to spit out food.*  I find those sort of digressions interesting.  What they aren't, are anything much to do with  the contestant who kicked off the subject. 

 

We talked about this same thing a few years ago when Clare spit out food, we talked about the Kardashian-girl peeing in the ocean, we talked about girls eating with their mouth's open, (that's probably why they have fake food now) we talked about how hairy someone's rear-end was,  we talked about whether or not Britt bathed, we raked Tiara over the coals in general for weeks. Just this season, we talked about the strange shape of Olivia's nose and toes, and we but all but called Lace an alcoholic.  But say one thing negative about Jubilee and it's simply horrible.

 

I read a column in one of the online newspapers about Jubilee and all the horrible bullying and racism she has suffered this year.  The writer didn't seem to have watched much of the show.   For example he placed Jubilee's joke, asking to trade dates, before Ben even got there, but boy did he make the household sound like a young female version of the KKK.  I think it's getting way out of hand.  Clearly Jubilee has to be treated like a perfect princess on a pedestal by everyone this year, from the show runners, to her competitors in the house, to the viewers on message boards.

 

* Emily Post, in her classic book "Etiquette:"  “If food has been taken into your mouth, no matter how you hate it, you have got to swallow it. It is unforgivable to take anything out of your mouth that has been put into it except dry bones and stones. To spit anything whatever into the corner of your napkin is too nauseating to comment on.”

Edited January 24, 2016 by JudyObscure

[MakeMeLaugh]

You know what's really not good manners? Talking about other people's manners and especially saying you have good manners (look that up on emily post). Obviously I don't have good manners or I wouldn't have posted that. I think the Jubilee horse has further to run on the show and the editing monkeys have to be chortling but for me it's been beaten to death here so I'll post no more about our little Army girl. I was glad to see someone a little different in her background and life experiences and it seemed like Ben was too, didn't it, just a little?

Edited January 24, 2016 by MakeMeLaugh

[catrice2]

Good Lord...Emily Post wrote a lot of those "rules" a long time ago.  Certainly it was probably before people were aware that there were allergens in food that could lead to immediate death, or serious discomfort.   By that reasoning someone allergic to nuts or shellfish (my hubby recently had seafood in a salad that he was unaware of) would put in in their mouth, be told or recognize what it was) and just continue to swallow it for POLITENESS sake? 

 

It has always been my observation that people who quote etiquette are typically selective. My best friend is like that. She picks and chooses which rules are worth following and cheerfully ignores the ones that she violates! 

 

I am not sure why it is an issue.  I blame the editors for including it to portray her as "low brow" or maybe they thought it was funny?  I can see how some people would think it was gross and others would think it was not a big deal.  Of all the things that went on in this episode I cannot believe this is a focal.

 

I also blame editing on Olivia. Perhaps she thought focusing on something as insignificant as her cankles would lighten the mood and divert Ben's attention. In general she is probably a nice girl, but I can see those producers meddling.  Just like with Jubilee...can't you just imagine a producer saying, 'Ben told you that he likes massages, don't you think it would be a good idea for him to have one now?"  Of course, they had spent all day listening to all of the Jubilee hate, so they thought..."let's get her to do something that will REALLY drive the women crazy!"  ARGH!

 

Lord, after one episode I think I have posted more than I have on the shows that I watch!  I tend to stay away from "reality tv" because I think it is manipulative. I stopped after Top Chef when they tried to shave someone's hair..and Top Chef started to move away from the food and the challenges to fights, disagreements, etc. 

 

I can't fall into the trap!!  You can't, however, avoid it because they report on it in mainstream media.  Even channels like CNN, MSNBC might have some show with a segment about what is going on in the reality world.  I didn't, however, know there was such a thing as Bachelor in Paradise, and I have never seen a second of The Bachelorette.  

[saber5055]

She could have just quickly swallowed it and washed away the taste with a few sips of champagne, and that could have been the end of it.

 

She could have done a lot of things, like not sign up for this trainwreck of a show to begin with. IMO, her spitting food into a nappy is higher on the socially acceptable scale than Olivia consoling a grief-stricken bach with an exposé on her cankles.

 

Me, I'm for Jubilee for next b-ette based on how good she looks out of a hot tub. Yeah, shallow, but isn't that what this show is about? Then she can mandate hot dogs on every date, and no helicopters, please.

 

Although knowing TPTB, they'd take a heli to a caviar dinner every week.

[OnceSane]

The "Spit or Swallow" debate has been run into the ground. Move on.

[lavenderpenguin]

I don't think it was rude of Jubilee to spit out the food because she once wore a uniform.  I think it's rude period.  Anyone who would spit out food, whether on TV or not, whether they have 'permission' or not, whether in uniform or not, is classless and rude.  People don't have manners anymore.  I make no apologies for having good manners and expecting others to have them as well.

 

 

Jeez, is it really that big of a deal to people? As a picky eater (who is also vegetarian), I'm often put in a position where I have to try foods that I don't like or don't want to eat. Now, if I'm at a business dinner or with people I'm unfamiliar with, I might choke down the food and grin and bear it. But if I'm with friends or a potential boyfriend, you can be sure I'll be spitting that crap out. If you're comfortable with someone, it's okay to make yourself comfortable -- isn't that the whole point? If you have to do something that makes you uncomfortable for the sake of being polite in front of someone, then you probably shouldn't be considering that person a friend or a potential love interest? I liked that Ben appreciated that Jubilee -- whatever her flaws might be -- is at least real and is being genuine with him. She is who she is. He isn't going to pick her in the end, but at least if he did, he would know right out of the gate what her shortcomings are, because she's not pretending to be some polished, glossy version of herself for him. 

 

I guess, for me, if I'm comfortable with someone, and felt a connection, I'm okay with showing them ALL sides of myself. Goofy, weird, less than polite, etc. We all have some habits that might not be considered 'good manners' but that's okay, because we're all human. To me, the classiest people are the ones with empathy, who don't nitpick over other people's flaws, and Jubilee showed far more class by removing herself from the conflict instead of sinking to the other gossipy girls' levels.

Edited January 24, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[saber5055]

Does Ben the Bach have a bio somewhere? I paid no attention to him on Kaitlyn's season. I don't even know his job (if he has one!) or where he lives, except he has a basketball hoop on his barn back in Indiana. I remember on Juan Pablo's resumé he wrote he did not read and he liked big boobs on women. Does Ben have a Q and A posted somewhere?

[chocolatine]

Juan Pablo's "resume" was from when he was a contestant on Desiree's Bachelorette season. You'll have to see if the contestant profiles from Kaitlyn's season are still available somewhere.

[NikSac]

Does Ben the Bach have a bio somewhere? I paid no attention to him on Kaitlyn's season. I don't even know his job (if he has one!) or where he lives, except he has a basketball hoop on his barn back in Indiana. I remember on Juan Pablo's resumé he wrote he did not read and he liked big boobs on women. Does Ben have a Q and A posted somewhere?

 

Here's a start for you: http://abc.go.com/shows/the-bachelor/cast/ben-higgins. It doesn't say a whole lot, but it's the official bio.

[C76]

Does Ben the Bach have a bio somewhere? I paid no attention to him on Kaitlyn's season. I don't even know his job (if he has one!) or where he lives, except he has a basketball hoop on his barn back in Indiana. I remember on Juan Pablo's resumé he wrote he did not read and he liked big boobs on women. Does Ben have a Q and A posted somewhere?

He also has a LinkedIn page.

[JudyObscure]

Make Me Laugh quote:

You know what's really not good manners? Talking about other people's manners and especially saying you have good manners (look that up on emily post).

 

I'm really sorry, I thought the admittedly ancient Emily Post thing was funny and yes,  the same Google search found other experts saying just the opposite.  Of course medical issues like allergens and having the Heimlich  maneuver done to you is different and even Miss Post would probably make an exception.

 

I apologize if it came across as if I was telling anyone here they had bad manners.  I'm positive I didn't say I had good manners, because I'm not even close -- just ask my mother-in-law.

[NikSac]

Here's quite a bit more about Ben

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/meet-bachelor-ben-higgins/story?id=36089155

[saber5055]

Hey, thanks for the Ben links guys. He actually DOES sound like a nice regular guy, sort of along the lines of Ashley's JP, one of my favorites. Could it be he's NOT a famewhore and really is "looking for love?" How novel! I hope he can find at least one decent person in that field of crazies Fleiss lined up for him.

 

Did anyone catch the "Bland Dan" sketch on SNL Saturday night? Some of TB contestants were easily recognizable. 

[In2You]

Bland Dan was a good sketch

[lightbeam]

Someone upthread said the Jubilee makes Ben more interesting, and I wholeheartedly agree with that statement.  This is a show where the women puts their best foot forward and plays the the role of what they think the bachelor perceives as "the perfect woman."  They make sure to say the right things with just the right amount of enthusiasm.  I think what fascinates me about the Ben / Jubilee story is that here is a woman who doesn't necessarily fit into that concept, and has admitted to being complicated and having layers (something that I can relate to personally).  It would be easy for a man (especially "The Bachelor," where he has a room full of woman pining away for him) to run away from that, but Ben didn't balk. Instead he found it interesting and expressed he likes layers and wanted a woman who stretches him. It's a quality that I appreciate in a man and it says a lot about him. He's not necessarily looking for "easy" (in the purest essence of that word).

 

Also, quite frankly, he seems willing to enter into a inter-racial relationship. It takes a strong man to handle the wm/bf relationship in this world (as much as we want to believe it shouldn't be an issue in this day and age) and I can only imagine that a lot of Jubilee's nervousness stems around that issue. It ups the ante in a competition scenario and racial politics will always be at play. Whether Jubilee has layers or not, whether she is perfect for him or not, is he willing to take that on in life when he can easily chose another woman in the room, as his family and the entire country watches? Really hard spot for Jubilee to be in (in terms of dealing with all the questions and concerns around all of that) and she has my utmost sympathy. More complicated and more layers to deal with indeed.

[catrice2]

See I disagree. I think Ben said all the right things, but ultimately it is a producers show.  When they sign on they know what outcome the show runners want, and dealing with the ins and outs that come from any relationship where people are too different is not it. The Bachelor wants that "we meet and you are my prince and I am your princesses and we just CLICK," thing, so that the women (and men) who watch this can keep believing in the idea that when you meet "the one," it is easy breezy.  You can just tell by the voiceovers on many of the women that they already set up the "reason" why he will dump some of them, and they set up Jubilee's reason (according to my Bachelor expert friend) and have continued the theme. 

 

The edit I get from Jubilee is that the show runners want the audience  to believe that she has a chance for their own reasons, but that although they have some attraction to each other, both Ben and Jubilee know that long term it won't work on this show.  Ben knows he does not have enough time to get to know someone with that much of a history (and that it would be work) and deep down if she watches the show Jubilee knows the type of fairytale outcome that the show wants...and she knows that it is the "cheerleader" type that she is not, and the show does not want to show two people working on a relationship, just the easiness of getting to know someone and wow, now we are getting married on television!  Our families are the same, our values are the same,...and it doesn't hurt that you are good looking!  That's another reason I know he won't choose the girl with the two kids, but I predict she gets far so that again, the producers can pretend that they were OPEN to that, but it just didn't happen. 

 

By the way, my husband said he thinks she looks a little like Kerry Washington....does anyone else see it? I don't, but I don't watch Scandal and have only seen some pictures of her.  Maybe at a certain angle? 

[lightbeam]

I don't disagree actually. Maybe Ben is just a bit more savvy in expressing a desire for a different type of woman, more than any other bachelor has expressed.

In the end, Jubilee does not fit into the the narrative of the show (hence all of her anxiety, despite the fact she is trying so hard to buy in). There is too much stuff and in the end, it's way too real life for a television show.  I don't think he will end up with Jubilee, but it was nice to see a man have interest in someone different. 

[Padma]

Someone upthread said the Jubilee makes Ben more interesting, and I wholeheartedly agree with that statement.  This is a show where the women puts their best foot forward and plays the the role of what they think the bachelor perceives as "the perfect woman."  They make sure to say the right things with just the right amount of enthusiasm.  I think what fascinates me about the Ben / Jubilee story is that here is a woman who doesn't necessarily fit into that concept, and has admitted to being complicated and having layers (something that I can relate to personally).  It would be easy for a man (especially "The Bachelor," where he has a room full of woman pining away for him) to run away from that, but Ben didn't balk. Instead he found it interesting and expressed he likes layers and wanted a woman who stretches him. It's a quality that I appreciate in a man and it says a lot about him. He's not necessarily looking for "easy" (in the purest essence of that word).

This all made me like Ben a lot more than I ever expected to based on Kaitlyn's season. Also the way he's approaching an interracial relationship. (And you'd think it would be a small thing after all these years, but not for this show--finally! An black-white kiss that was natural and showed chemistry.)

 

It reminded me of another moment I found interesting on their date. It was when she told him she was relieved that he laughed when she took a chance and kidded about being a "white boy". Then she told him "I liked it because you don't laugh much." You could see he was surprised by that. Also, it sounded critical a bit--and who ever says anything negative about the prize we know as "the Bachelor"? Especially to his face?  A lot of them would have become defensive,, "I have a sense of humor! I laugh a lot!! Are you saying I've too serious?" etc.)

 

But you could see Ben thinking about it--and not taking offense at all. Instead, he was curious and seemed interested in how she was perceiving him. Then lightened it up by figuring out where she was going, "That's what you're there for?" and thenpaid her a compliment--"You make me laugh".

 

Something about that moment, again, made their date seem so much better than what we usually see on this show.  And made Ben seem so much better than any past Bachelor I can recall.                 

[backformore]

Padma -   I agree.  right from the "you're 20 minutes late"  Ben's date with Jubilee was more like a REAL date than a Bachelor-show date.   Like two people trying to get to know each other, not like a woman trying to impress the Bachelor, begging to be chosen over all the other women.  They had an ease with each other, joking around, and having fun.   It seemed like they really liked each other.

[Lamb18]

I think Ben's relationship with Jubilee will end up being more like a protective big brother/little sister relationship. (Protective in the emotional sense; I doubt she needs physical protection.)

[Mu Shu]

Unworldly? Jubilee has more worldly experience than the rest of that bunch. She was born in another country, was in an orphanage for months, got adopted and moved to the US, joined the army, and served in Afghanistan. As for the food. I watched the episode online and he told her she could spit it out.

I roomed with a girl for 6 months who was in the military for. Its a whole different environment and the women don't have time for that petty clique bs.

How do you know where the others have been, and what they've done? Being a PFC in the military only means you followed orders. She did not arrange to go to Afghanistan, get a job there, and manage daily life there. Everything she did was planned and ordered by others. Plenty of military people are very sheltered and unable to make decisions in their own, and there is plenty of petty bullshit. IMO, she's very immature and insecure. Not worldly at all.

Unworldly? Jubilee has more worldly experience than the rest of that bunch. She was born in another country, was in an orphanage for months, got adopted and moved to the US, joined the army, and served in Afghanistan. As for the food. I watched the episode online and he told her she could spit it out.

I roomed with a girl for 6 months who was in the military for. Its a whole different environment and the women don't have time for that petty clique bs.

How do you know where the others have been, and what they've done? Being a PFC in the military only means you followed orders. She did not arrange to go to Afghanistan, get a job there, and manage daily life there. Everything she did was planned and ordered by others. Plenty of military people are very sheltered and unable to make decisions in their own, and there is plenty of petty bullshit. IMO, she's very immature and insecure. Not worldly at all.

[violetr]

Unworldly? Jubilee has more worldly experience than the rest of that bunch. She was born in another country, was in an orphanage for months, got adopted and moved to the US, joined the army, and served in Afghanistan. As for the food. I watched the episode online and he told her she could spit it out.

 

I see your point of course, but IMO worldliness isn't about how much trauma someone has lived through, and, as Mu Shu stated, plenty of military folk are very sheltered. Wordliness is more about maturity, life experience, and growth. Don't get me wrong - I like her. I just find her very green. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by violetr

[lavenderpenguin]

How do you know where the others have been, and what they've done? Being a PFC in the military only means you followed orders. She did not arrange to go to Afghanistan, get a job there, and manage daily life there. Everything she did was planned and ordered by others. Plenty of military people are very sheltered and unable to make decisions in their own, and there is plenty of petty bullshit. IMO, she's very immature and insecure. Not worldly at all.

How do you know where the others have been, and what they've done? Being a PFC in the military only means you followed orders. She did not arrange to go to Afghanistan, get a job there, and manage daily life there. Everything she did was planned and ordered by others. Plenty of military people are very sheltered and unable to make decisions in their own, and there is plenty of petty bullshit. IMO, she's very immature and insecure. Not worldly at all.

 

Compared to who...? All of these girls are immature and seemingly insecure, if their behavior in the last few episodes if anything to by. Even our resident nice girl Lauren B. was talking to the single mom about what a 'mean girl' Olivia is. Mature, self-assured women don't talk behind each other's back, don't gang up on one girl, don't interfere in drama, and don't get concerned because one or two girls is getting more attention than the rest. If I had to pinpoint an MVP here, it might be LB, who realized that if she wasn't capturing Ben's attention the way some of the others were, it just wasn't worth doubting herself or comparing herself to the others -- now that's confidence. I can literally count on one hand the number of contestants through the last few seasons that could be accurately described as anything close to worldly, mature or self-assured. The only one who comes to mind right now is Sharleen.

Edited January 25, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[In2You]

Ben's take on the episode

http://www.people.com/article/bachelor-ben-higgins-blogs-lace-exit-alex-morgan-kelly-ohara-soccer-group-date-episode-3