All Episodes Talk: Walk With Me

[PeterPirate]

From Bad Moon Rising, in recognition of the passing of Kirk Douglas:

CJ - It's me, okay? I am Spartacus.

[Driad]

On 2/5/2019 at 6:00 PM, Driad said:

from "He Shall from Time to Time":

President Josiah Bartlet: I came to this hallowed chamber one year ago on a mission, to restore the American dream for all our people as we gaze at the vast horizon of possibilities open to us... in the 321st century. Wow, that was ambitious of me, wasn't it?

Sam Seaborn: Leo.

Leo McGarry: Let's take a break.

President Josiah Bartlet: We meant stronger here right?

Sam Seaborn: What's it say?

President Josiah Bartlet: I'm proud to report our country's stranger than it was a year ago.

Sam Seaborn: That's a typo.

President Josiah Bartlet: Could go either way.

[reposting for semi-timeliness]

[BW Manilowe]

I follow a page about TWW on Facebook. Yesterday they posted that as of December, the show will be streaming exclusively on the new HBO Max service. So plan accordingly (do whatever you need to to retain access to the eps without having to subscribe to HBO Max to watch it).

[Kohola3]

4 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

Yesterday they posted that as of December, the show will be streaming exclusively on the new HBO Max service.

Well, crap  Glad I got the first several seasons on DVD.  I think those were the best ones anyway.

[PeterPirate]

Another great Martin Sheen video.  

 

 

[BW Manilowe]

20th Anniversary Commemorative TWW T-shirts, Sweatshirts, Tank Tops, Phone Cases, & Mugs available at this link. I got it through a Facebook ad. At least the shirts have the printed autographs of most of the cast, including Rob Lowe (who always talks of his support & love for the show, but never wanted to be in any original special features for the DVDs when he was in the show’s cast); they even managed, somehow, to get the late John Spencer’s autograph.

The only problem: It appears today as I’m posting this, Saturday, is the last day these items will probably be available—unless somebody can find another ad from a different place that’s selling it for a longer period. So my sincerest apologies to anyone who sees this post after the items are no longer available from this source.

[marypat57]

BW Manilowe:  thanks for the info.  I know my brother will enjoy the shirt.

[BW Manilowe]

From Primetimer: How Aaron Sorkin Would Approach Today’s Candidates in the Current Presidency

[ProudMary]

From 100,000 Airplanes:

President Bartlet:  The President stood up, he said "We will land a man on the moon before the end of the decade." Why shouldn't I stand up and say, "We are going to cure cancer in ten years?"

Edited March 5, 2020 by ProudMary
Added episode title

[FoundTime]

My women's book group met last week (there were only five of us and it was well before group meetings were being limited b/c of COVID19); we were there to discuss The President Is Missing by Bill Clinton and James Patterson. At one point we got to talking about perfect presidents in works of fiction, and I referenced President Bartlet on The West Wing. And was met all 'round with blank stares. All of us are old enough to have seen the show when it originally aired, or certainly on Netflix. Very weird.

[Kohola3]

3 hours ago, FoundTime said:

 And was met all 'round with blank stares. All of us are old enough to have seen the show when it originally aired, or certainly on Netflix. Very weird.

Oh now that's just sad!  Since we are "sheltering in place" I have decided that the only thing to get me through this is watching some of the classics over again. I started with The West Wing and found that I could pretty much recite the dialog right along with the characters.  But I don't care, Great stories, great acting.

[Driad]

Did TWW ever have an episode about an epidemic? 

[PeterPirate]

In The Women of Qumar, mad cow disease was discussed.  

Bartlet - So we've got frightened parents, rising food prices, public panic, massive layoffs, and something we've never had to worry about before, we're wondering when the next case is gonna happen. The most costly disruptions always happen when something we take completely for granted stops working for a minute.  

Of course, it's just a TV show.  

Edited March 17, 2020 by PeterPirate

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Driad said:

Did TWW ever have an episode about an epidemic? 

One of the season 1 episodes had Josh worrying about smallpox but it was more a hypothetical because he got a card from the secret service.

[PeterPirate]

There's also this from 20 Hours in LA:

Bartlet - I'm sorry. I've actually been told that I have to go now. This is a debate that is obviously going to continue in town halls, city halls, state legislatures, and the U.S. House of Representatives. There is a population in this country that seems to focus so much time and energy into this conversation, so much so that I am forced to ask this question -- is there an epidemic of flag burning going on that I'm not aware of?

[PeterPirate]

Mark Blum, who played Congressman Katzenmoyer in Five Votes Down:, passed away from complications associated with the coronavirus.  

Katzenmoyer - I'm in your own party!

Josh - Doesn't seem to be doing us much good now, does it?

Katzenmoyer - It's an incumbent Democrat. You'll go to the press and endorse a challenger?

Josh - No sir.  We're going to do it in person. See, you won with fifty-two percent, but the President took your district with fifty-nine.  And I think it's high time we come back and say thanks.  Do you have any idea how much noise Air Force One makes when it lands in Eau Claire, Wisconsin?  We're going to have a party, Congressman. You should come, it's gonna be great.  And when the watermelon's done, right in town square, right in the band gazebo.  You guys got a band gazebo?  Doesn't matter, we'll build one.  Right in the band gazebo, that's where the President is going to drape his arm around the shoulder of some assistant DA we like. And you should have your camera with you. You should get a picture of that.  'Cause that's gonna be the moment you're finished in Democratic politics.  President Bartlet's a good man. He's got a good heart.  He doesn't hold a grudge. That's what he pays me for. 

[ProudMary]

@PeterPirate Thanks so much for that info. I had seen Mark Blum's photo and knew I recognized him from somewhere other than the the roles mentioned in the article. I hadn't had time to check his IMDb page. Of course, TWW is where I remember him from. Very sad. 😢

[ProudMary]

Classic, yet timely.

 

[PeterPirate]

Brian Dennehy was in First Blood with
David Caruso who was in NYPD Blue with 
Jimmy Smits  

 

Brian Dennehy did not--repeat, DID NOT--appear in any West Wing episode that was worth watching.  

[AriAu]

Quote

Brian Dennehy was in First Blood with
David Caruso who was in NYPD Blue with 
Jimmy Smits  

Can actually do it on one step since the late great Mr. Dennehy was in Presumed Innocent with Bradley Whitford.

Quote

Brian Dennehy did not--repeat, DID NOT--appear in any West Wing episode that was worth watching

LOL.....I too pretend like it never happened, just like all of Season 5 never happened

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, AriAu said:

Quote

 

LOL.....I too pretend like it never happened, just like all of Season 5 never happened

If you were to ask me for my opinion on the worst episode in The West Wing, I either wouldn’t hesitate to list 90 Miles Away or I would hesitate because it is so forgettable.

[ProudMary]

8 hours ago, AriAu said:

Can actually do it on one step since the late great Mr. Dennehy was in Presumed Innocent with Bradley Whitford.

LOL.....I too pretend like it never happened, just like all of Season 5 never happened

When you bring up Presumed Innocent, my mind goes immediately to John Spencer. I have to admit I don't even remember Bradley Whitford being in the movie. It's been a long time since I've seen it. Oops! 😶 Great, now forgotten film. Brian Dennehy was great in everything he did. 

 

Also, what is this Season 5 you speak of? 🤔

[blondiec0332]

14 hours ago, ProudMary said:

When you bring up Presumed Innocent, my mind goes immediately to John Spencer. I have to admit I don't even remember Bradley Whitford being in the movie. It's been a long time since I've seen it. Oops! 😶 Great, now forgotten film. Brian Dennehy was great in everything he did. 

Presumed Innocent was one of the first movies where I read the book first.  I too remember John Spencer but not Bradley Whitford.    John Spencer was in another great movie a few years after that called Forget Paris, with Bily Crystal and Debra Winger.  

[BlackberryJam]

Loved John Spencer in Presumed Innocent. 

As to 90 Miles Away I cannot complain enough about that period of time when Kate ate the show. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Loved John Spencer in Presumed Innocent. 

As to 90 Miles Away I cannot complain enough about that period of time when Kate ate the show. 

Worst character on the show.... including Mandy!

[BlackberryJam]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

Worst character on the show.... including Mandy!

I came to TWW late and never participated in fandom. I knew Mandy wasn't in S2 before I even started S1, so I was fine with her. I could fast forward through her scenes. Kate though...wow, I hated her. I hated how much influence she had over Bartlett. I hated how even CJ went to her for advice about Liz, and that advice was "Don't tell Liz her husband is having an affair, we all just look at her funny until she figures it out." I mean, there is no good way to tell someone that their spouse is cheating, but you do more than look at her funny. Ugh. Kate was the worst.

[Moose135]

I never had a problem with Mandy, but I would never have missed Kate if she wasn't in the show.

[PeterPirate]

Ken Osmond was in Leave It To Beaver with
Barbara Billingsley who was in Airplane! with
Nicholas Pryor (Clem Rollins in Ways And Means) and 
James Hong (the Chinese Ambassador in Lord John Marbury)

Edited May 19, 2020 by PeterPirate

[AriAu]

I know it has been almost 18 years since this episode aired, but when I hear that 20 Indian soldiers were killed in a clash with Chinese soldiers, my first response is "as always, we are one bad bottle of tequila away from all out war in West Asia"

Yeah, I know I'm crossing story lines (actually seasons) and Qumar doesn't exist, but still......

Edited June 16, 2020 by AriAu

[ProudMary]

On 5/11/2020 at 6:18 PM, Moose135 said:

I never had a problem with Mandy, but I would never have missed Kate if she wasn't in the show.

I recently finished a re-watch of Sorkin's The Newsroom, which I hadn't seen since its original run ended in 2014. Mary McCormack was in two episodes late in the show's final season. I was surprised when she popped up because I completely forgot she had a role. Oops! For me, it wasn't just Kate's character in TWW that was forgettable; it's the actress. 

[justmehere]

The Kate character suffered from joining late in the series. - Much of that era was forgettable to me with sub-par writing. Not her fault - I barely recall Kristen Chenoweth being on in that phase. And unfair, IMO, to say the actress is forgettable for a 2-ep appearance in Newsroom. It was a short guest shot.

Two great Mary McCormack roles where I adored her:

In Plain Sight - USA Network show - played a U.S. Marshal with the WITSEC program

And canceled-too-soon The Kids are Alright (ABC I believe) as the mom of a large Catholic family in the 1970s. Hilarious.

She was also in Murder One back in the 90s. 

To each their own, but I think she's great.

[ProudMary]

3 hours ago, justmehere said:

The Kate character suffered from joining late in the series. - Much of that era was forgettable to me with sub-par writing. Not her fault - I barely recall Kristen Chenoweth being on in that phase. And unfair, IMO, to say the actress is forgettable for a 2-ep appearance in Newsroom. It was a short guest shot.

Two great Mary McCormack roles where I adored her:

In Plain Sight - USA Network show - played a U.S. Marshal with the WITSEC program

And canceled-too-soon The Kids are Alright (ABC I believe) as the mom of a large Catholic family in the 1970s. Hilarious.

She was also in Murder One back in the 90s. 

To each their own, but I think she's great.

I don't remember her from Murder One either. 😄 Then again, between Daniel Benzali and Stanley Tucci, all the other actors in that show were overshadowed. I wonder if it's streaming on any of the major platforms. I'd like to see that one again.

As to Mary McCormack, we'll have to agree to disagree. Your opinion's just as valid as mine.

[ProudMary]

Variety is reporting that the latest Aaron Sorkin penned film, "The Trial of the Chicago 7" is close to being picked up by Netflix, in the hopes of a pre-Election Day release. What a cast!

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/netflix-paramount-trial-of-chicago-7-aaron-sorkin-1234642937/

[Moose135]

I've made the big time! I follow a number of the old TWW gang on Twitter, and yesterday, Kathleen York, who played Toby's ex-wife Andy Wyatt, in reply to a tweet about her character  commented "West Wings fans are the best!"

I commented on that, and she answered me!

 

 

[AriAu]

Carl Reiner RIP...couldnt figure out how to do it with Mel Brooks, which is too bad

Carl Reiner was in Oceans 11,12 and 13 with

George Clooney who was in Monuments Men and Oh Brother Where Art Thou with

John Goodman

[ProudMary]

Something to put a smile on your face.

 

[CailynA]

Anyone know when TWW won't be on Netflix anymore? I'd like to get in one more rewatch if I can before it's too late.

[shapeshifter]

26 minutes ago, CailynA said:

Anyone know when TWW won't be on Netflix anymore? I'd like to get in one more rewatch if I can before it's too late.

Pretty sure you've got through the end of 2020, but I could be wrong. Things change.

[CailynA]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Pretty sure you've got through the end of 2020, but I could be wrong. Things change.

Yay! I thought I'd heard May but it was still there last I checked.

[AriAu]

My daughter brought this up at the dinner table last night and my wife didn't understand when I immediately said "Yo Yo Ma rocks

[HyeChaps]

Raffi rocks, too!

[Moose135]

2 hours ago, AriAu said:

...my wife didn't understand when I immediately said "Yo Yo Ma rocks

I don't blame her - Yo-Yo Ma Rules!

[Featherhat]

Just leaving this link here as I mentioned Aaron Sorkin Vs TWOP and the resulting "US Poet Laureate" episode B plot in another thread about showrunner meltdowns and how they affect fans and networks. 

 http://bitchkittie.blogspot.com/2006/02/long-back-story-of-aaron-sorkin-west.html

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Just leaving this link here as I mentioned Aaron Sorkin Vs TWOP and the resulting "US Poet Laureate" episode B plot in another thread about showrunner meltdowns and how they affect fans and networks. 

 http://bitchkittie.blogspot.com/2006/02/long-back-story-of-aaron-sorkin-west.html

Very cool. But now I need someone to pull me out of the rabbit hole, LOL.

<shapeshifter now entering academic reference librarian mode, meaning just skimming content and presenting sources on topic for you to read>

The Internet Archive doesn't have any West Wing forum discussions, and I don't either (I didn't watch until this past year; it got me through my transition to early retirement).
But if y'all are interested in behind the scenes stuff seeping into the show, quoted below are the bits (2 of 16 pages) from a recap of 3.17 "The U.S. Poet Laureate," discussing with how LemonLyman.com is surrogate for the TWoP message boards, which was an ancestor of this board.
From The West Wing: The U.S. Poet Laureate: By Shack | Season 3 | Episode 17 | Aired on 2002.03.27 (p.1-16) 
--which begins at: 
https://web.archive.org/web/20031110063802/http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=4&story=3118&page=1&sort=&limit= 
(page 1 of 16)

The LemonLyman.com stuff starts on  page 10 of the recap:

Quote

Subplot of Sorkin's Discontent. Josh is looking at his computer monitor in confusion and shouts out for Donna to come help him. Josh is having problems with LemonLyman.com. Donna is the very picture of "I'm not surprised at all, you moron." Josh says that the folks at the site haven't taken his response "in the spirit in which it was intended." He says that he's confused by the site's forum moderator, "who seems to pride herself in her organizational skills and a certain amount of discipline." Donna responds, "Right. That's what's called a control freak." Because no other form of media on earth requires a leader to keep things organized and disciplined. Josh continues that the moderator's big on scolding, telling posters when they've posted in the wrong threads, or to stop using capital letters (though I'm sure she meant posting in all-caps), and telling people that she doesn't have time to repeat herself constantly, when "clearly she does." But that's not Josh's main problem. The problem is the responses he's gotten from the posters. One reads, "Somebody needs to deal with Josh's planet-sized ego by teaching him Government 101. Who made him overlord of the Democratic party?" Somebody else wrote, "Is Josh delusional? Or is he actively trying to destroy the separation of powers?" After verifying that Josh isn't trying to destroy the separation of powers, Donna tells him to shut off the computer. But no, Josh wants to clarify his remarks. A frustrated Donna begs him to let it drop, reminding him that Josh has been the organizer behind the whole energy initiative in the first place, and that he needs to prepare for the press conference. Josh insists, somewhat angrily, that Donna sit down so that he can dictate a response. Donna looks at him like he's gone around the bend and says, "I think you've gone around the bend." Yeah, and that's probably where he's going to run into me, and my gazebo is fully locked and loaded and about to go off.

--and concludes on page 11:

Quote

Oh, where to begin. First of all, I think it's particularly galling and hypocritical for a person who sits at the top of a complex creative endeavor to summarily dismiss the people who keep any media forum running smoothly as "control freaks," either as himself or through his fictional proxies. The success of any web message board absolutely depends on an engaged moderator keeping conversations organized and inappropriate intrusions out. He should be fucking grateful that he found a site about him that wasn't full of racist screeds by neo-Nazis; lengthy, inarticulate rants as to why the United States should nuke everything east of the Black Sea; and ASCII drawings of dog poo. Because that's what you get when you don't have moderators. And just because there isn't a quarter slot on the side of your monitor, that doesn't mean that it's not costing anybody anything for you to blather away online. Maybe Sorkin should go ask NBC how much it costs to maintain their forums on NBC.com. Oh wait, he can't, because they don't have any. Maybe he should ask them why they don't. Because bandwidth isn't cheap, and the more popular a site is, the more important those "control freaks" become to prevent spam, to keep the discussions on topic so that people can, you know, follow them and contribute, and to prevent the kind of overwhelming redundancies and flame wars that causes a site to collapse under the financial strain of its own popular success. Oh, and if Sorkin thinks we get treated like South American dictators by our readers, I'm sure Television Without Pity can arrange for him to get copies of all the insults, hate mail, complaints, threats, and a few emails that, if they were sent to the president, would result in a secret service investigation. Do I think it's accurate for these characters not to know or understand any of this? Absolutely. ["Although Donna might want to revise her opinion of those wacky, unmedicated online people and educate herself a little bit before she accepts that dot-com job offer." -- Wing Chun] But does anybody involved in this storyline receive any enlightenment about it? Sorry if I'm spoiling it, but no. Is Charlie enlightened about Alaskan drilling? Yes. Is Tabatha enlightened about America's land-mine policy? Yes...but that's another rant. These people? No. And that was a decision by Sorkin and his petty way of trying to get in the last word after he was slapped down for thinking that he could visit a site about the show and be treated like a god.

Man, that felt good.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Bastet]

7 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

The Internet Archive doesn't have any West Wing forum discussions,

It's there.  Here is the WW thread as it existed at the beginning of April, 2014 (the site ceased operations several days later), and here is the archived WW forum (from when it was put on "permanent hiatus" and reduced to a single thread of discussion).

[BlackberryJam]

I am so torn about The West Wing. I long for the days when what press secretaries said really mattered and there was a certain level of accountability for political missteps, but on the other hand, the disrespectful treatment of women, the simplistic explanations for complex problems an my loathing of Josh Lyman as a character. Watching it is both nostalgic and enraging. 

I came to TWW late so I missed Sorkin’s dickishness, but I’ve always been a fan of discussion boards and that LemonLyman bullshit just pissed me off. 

[PeterPirate]

All this talk about TWOP does take me back.  

[txhorns79]

I've been rewatching, and hit Season 5.  There are some decent episodes during the season and some bad ones.  I got to Talking Points, and it seems extremely unbelievable to me that the Deputy Chief of Staff has to be told by members of an interest group about the contents of a trade deal.  Further, that he apparently is only learning about this just as the trade deal is going to be passed, and thinks he can suddenly stop the process at this late a time period.  Finally, a guy whose job it is, is to count votes has no idea that the opposition party is in favor of said trade deal.  It reminded me of that first season episode where CJ, the White House Press Secretary, seemed confused about why we had a census.

[oakville]

I have started my re watch of the West Wing. The Pilot was much funnier than I remembered. I am puzzled why Sam would use a pager. Were cellphones not authorized for use by senior White House staff by the government in 1999 ?

 

[Kohola3]

33 minutes ago, oakville said:

I have started my re watch of the West Wing. The Pilot was much funnier than I remembered. I am puzzled why Sam would use a pager. Were cellphones not authorized for use by senior White House staff by the government in 1999 ?

 

 Did they have cell phones small enough to cart around back then?  I remember my 1st mobile phone in the nineties was enormous and heavy!