All Episodes Talk: Walk With Me

[jaytee1812]

Abbey says "The chairman of the joint chiefs" in her list to the anaesthesiologist during In The Shadow of Two Gunmen.

[Melancholy]

In Bad Moon Rising Oliver says ...

 

OLIVER

Okay. The First Lady and your kids, that's four. The six original doctors and radiologists, that's ten; your brother, that's 11. Fitzwallace, the Vice President, and Leo, that's 14...

 

I always assumed this was in order.

 

Thank you for the reference! I don't think it necessarily needs to be the order, though. It seems unlikely that Jed would be confessing MS-secrets to Fitz before Jed even told Hoynes at his first nomination. Also, I'd think Jed would have mentioned it in his "You hated me" speech to Fitz in 20 Hours in America Part II.

 

BARTLET

You just hated my living guts when I got this job, didn't you?

FITZWALLACE

No, sir.

BARTLET

Yeah, you did. I didn't know anything and I didn't have any respect for the Chiefs. You became my counselor and you wrangled the Chiefs and you brought them to me.

FITZWALLACE

You got the Chiefs, sir, they respect you.

BARTLET

You brought them to me. And you talked Leo into Shareef and he talked me into it. It was my order and you executed it flawlessly and I stand by it. I stand by you, I stand by you all. I stand by it till I die. Plus, I'm going to need some cell mates in Holland. So, what do we do now?

 

 

It just feels like that'd be an opportune time that Fitz knew Jed had MS- and kept the secret. I'm gonna fanwank that Leo told Jed that someone in the Situation Room, preferably Leo's boyfriend Fitz (lol), needed to know to be prepared, in case of emergency and Leo/Jed told Fitz off-screen sometime in S1. 

 

I also think it's sad that Jed didn't tell Mrs. Landingham. However, I viewed it as factual confirmation of a general vibe that Mrs. Landingham had a long-term, important role in Jed's life and he loved her but they weren't intimate bosom buddies. 

[jaytee1812]

I never thought Mrs Landingham would know because Jed told because of how close they were. But like Margaret and Donna with Leo and Josh, she would be aware of everything in his life, and at a basic level, she would've made all his medical appointments.

[Melancholy]

I never thought Mrs Landingham would know because Jed told because of how close they were. But like Margaret and Donna with Leo and Josh, she would be aware of everything in his life, and at a basic level, she would've made all his medical appointments.

 

I mean, it's possible that Mrs. Landingham knew all along but she was just verrrry subtle about it and didn't want to embarrass Jed with her knowledge since he was clearly keeping it on the down-low. Like Charlie, it's possible that Zoey or someone in Jed's family told Mrs. Landingham and asked her to keep a look-out for the beginnings of an episode. We never really learn from Mrs. Landingham what she thought- just Jed's perception that he hadn't told her which could be just as mistaken as Jed's impression that Charlie didn't know. 

 

My impression was also that Jed only had like, several episodes pre-S2. He was in remission the vast majority of the time. I also don't know how often Jed went to the MS specialist doctor, or to what extent, that needed to be on his official books instead of Abbey making the appointment for him. 

[Guest]

I was glad Mrs. Landingham didn't know.  I was so sad thinking she was going to find out on a day she was so excited to get her new car. AND THEN THAT DIDN'T MATTER ANYMORE.

 

I'm clearly still not over it.  

 

I'm on Episode 5 and I find Mandy even more annoying this time around.  Ugh.

[betsyboo]

I was glad Mrs. Landingham didn't know.  I was so sad thinking she was going to find out on a day she was so excited to get her new car. AND THEN THAT DIDN'T MATTER ANYMORE.

 

I'm clearly still not over it.  

 

I'm on Episode 5 and I find Mandy even more annoying this time around.  Ugh.

Um. 15 years later and I'm not over it. Although, in this day and age of abundant spoilers, I'm very glad I didn't know in advance. Much like when Helena "killed" (kidnapped) original flavor Lucky in the fire on GH. I cried for 5 days straight. Also

McDreamy and Will Gardner.

<<--- other series mentioned here. Beware

[Guest]

So rewatching Season 1 after seeing all seasons? Jed's talk to Toby in Crackpots and These Women feels extra.... poignant? Extra something for sure.

His speech to Zoey in Mr. Willis.... Wow. I wonder if that had been planned or if they just revisited it like "hey, good idea!"

[BizBuzz]

I don't know about anyone else, but it's just as fun watching a new Wingnut watch TWW for a second time as it was for the first.

[Melancholy]

His speech to Zoey in Mr. Willis.... Wow. I wonder if that had been planned or if they just revisited it like "hey, good idea!"

 

If I recall correctly, Aaron Sorkin always wanted to dramatize that speech and make it a future storyline. It's really great foreshadowing. 

[Bastet]

I always assumed this was in order.

 

If it was in order, the original doctors would have been listed first, so I don't think the order in which Babish reeled off the names of those who know necessarily indicates the order in which those people found out. 

[Guest]

Costco has the complete series for $50. Merry Christmas to me!

[txhorns79]

I was glad Mrs. Landingham didn't know.  I was so sad thinking she was going to find out on a day she was so excited to get her new car. AND THEN THAT DIDN'T MATTER ANYMORE.

 

I always thought the first thing she would say to Jed when he told her was that she already knew.

[BW Manilowe]

Costco has the complete series for $50. Merry Christmas to me!

That's a better deal than I got (I paid almost $72 before tax, etc., at Amazon--but it still wasn't a bad deal 'cause it was 76% off list price), but that's cool. As I mentioned in another thread, I got mine today. I like it. Can't wait to look at the Pilot script copy included in the box (it's just in the Complete Series set).

Except for that, the individual seasons booklets being combined into a single Complete Series book, & the 1st 2 or 3 seasons being changed from double-sided discs to single-sided discs, the contents are exactly the same as in the individual seasons sets, so you're not missing any content by buying the Complete box (& you're getting a copy of the Pilot script you wouldn't otherwise have gotten). It even looks like the cast photos on the discs are the same in each season in the Complete set as they are in the individual seasons sets.

I hope you enjoy it! And at least now you won't have to depend on Netflix streaming it for you to be able to watch it.

[Kohola3]

I always thought the first thing she would say to Jed when he told her was that she already knew.

 

I always felt that she somehow knew as well.  Heck, she had known him longer than even Abby and had a keen wit. I don't think she would miss the signs of illness but would keep her counsel about it unless she was approached by Jed. She was a classy lady with a innate sense of decorum.

[Guest]

I always felt that she somehow knew as well. Heck, she had known him longer than even Abby and had a keen wit. I don't think she would miss the signs of illness but would keep her counsel about it unless she was approached by Jed. She was a classy lady with a innate sense of decorum.

One of my favorite scenes of hers is in a very early episode. Leo insults Jed to her and she says something like "not in this office; that's all I ask."

I'm not doing it justice, but I adore that scene.

[Moose135]

One of my favorite scenes of hers is in a very early episode. Leo insults Jed to her and she says something like "not in this office; that's all I ask."

I'm not doing it justice, but I adore that scene.

 

That was actually in the very first scene of the Pilot, as Leo does his long walk through the building when he arrives.  Mrs. L asks him about Jed's bicycle accident and Leo tells her "your President is a klutz..." She says she doesn't like that kind of talk in the Oval Office.

[Guest]

That's right. I just loved it.

I had completely forgotten about Leo's drug rehab issues!

And I thought loving Donna in Seasons 5-7 might mean I would like her better Season 1 on rewatching, but I still find Season 1 Donna to be annoying.

It's fun watching Danny and CJ together. He brought her a fish. :)

[Eeksquire]

 

He brought her a fish. :)

Well she DOES like goldfish.  I have to say that I really love CJ and Danny ... right up until the very end of the last season and then he starts to really bug me.

[Bastet]

I thought CJ and Danny were very cute in the beginning, and I liked them as two people who had a thing for each other but couldn't be together.  Then when they brought him back, it was so random because that storyline had wrapped up, and they just didn't have a good vibe to me anymore.  When I heard about the ending, I may have actually thrown something.

[BW Manilowe]

It appears Netflix has renewed their license to stream the show. At least according to a Tweet I got on my Twitter, earlier today, as a Retweet.

https://mobile.twitter.com/tsukikage85/status/680401066618413056?p=v

Edited December 25, 2015 by BW Manilowe

[Guest]

I thought CJ and Danny were very cute in the beginning, and I liked them as two people who had a thing for each other but couldn't be together. Then when they brought him back, it was so random because that storyline had wrapped up, and they just didn't have a good vibe to me anymore. When I heard about the ending, I may have actually thrown something.

I liked them, then I was annoyed with them, then I was glad he came back after the Simon thing, and I was glad at the beginning of season 7 that they were having a happy ending, but then he annoyed me during season 7. I felt he pressured her when she was already facing a difficult time.

At one of my Christmas festivities, I walked into a room where someone was describing Jed's speech to the conservative radio host (I have no idea her name or even the season). I was like "ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT THE WEST WING?!?" Unfortunately, they only were discussing that is particular scene and did not seem to be big fans as they kept referring to "Martin Sheen said" and didn't know his character's name.

[Eeksquire]

It's always hard when you're ready to jump in with extremely specific discussion points and everyone else is like, "heh? Only watched it that one time.  Seemed like a good enough show, though." 

[Melancholy]

I never liked Danny as a person. From the beginning, I thought he was incredibly condescending to CJ and he'd disregard her clearly expressed boundaries in the name of "flirting." He had an unbelievably important job as the White House correspondent for the freakin' Washington Post but even though he was painted as Ace Reporter, I often felt that important job took a backseat in his mental focus to schoolyard version of flirting with CJ. However, I did think he was very funny and very, very interesting in the Sorkin years- more so S1 and especially S4 than when his story was winding down in S2. His scoop storylines were cool from Mandy's memo to Shareef. I think you could really write an interesting article in how he's torn on a deep, admirable level between his respect for the Bartlet administration and his commitment to being an independent, journalist who's supposed to hold politicians' feet to the fire but also, IMO, in a more superficial, less admirable way that he's torn between the intoxicating performance of the firebrand, no-nonsense reporter but also the charismatic high that comes with approval of the Office of the President so Danny pressed to be more familiar with Josh, Jed, and especially CJ than his role should have allowed. And it was beautiful when he was called on it:

 

DANNY: Sir, if makes you feel any better I just gave some very sage dating advice to Charlie Young.

TARTLET: You're coaching my Personal Aide on how to best score with my daughter? Yes, Danny, that does make me feel better.

DANNY: Well, anything I can do to help, Mr. President.

BARTLET: Go away.

 

Danny is part of a general principle of mine- it's a West Wing gift for any character/actor to have lots of scenes and repartee opposite CJ/Allison Janney.

 

However, this was all fun and games in S1-4. Fine, I can live with CJ having a love-interest who was kind of an asshole who wasn't handsome enough to really play in CJ's league if it wasn't materializing into anything and he *was* funny and interesting. However, making him the Happy Ending Guy when he was his most insufferable and pushy did tick me off. I should amend that he was OK in Internal Displacement but he annoyed in Reqium and really pissed me off in Institutional Memory. 

Edited December 26, 2015 by Melancholy

[betsyboo]

I never liked Danny as a person. From the beginning, I thought he was incredibly condescending to CJ and he'd disregard her clearly expressed boundaries in the name of "flirting." He had an unbelievably important job as the White House correspondent for the freakin' Washington Post but even though he was painted as Ace Reporter, I often felt that important job took a backseat in his mental focus to schoolyard version of flirting with CJ. However, I did think he was very funny and very, very interesting in the Sorkin years- more so S1 and especially S4 than when his story was winding down in S2. His scoop storylines were cool from Mandy's memo to Shareef. I think you could really write an interesting article in how he's torn on a deep, admirable level between his respect for the Bartlet administration and his commitment to being an independent, journalist who's supposed to hold politicians' feet to the fire but also, IMO, in a more superficial, less admirable way that he's torn between the intoxicating performance of the firebrand, no-nonsense reporter but also the charismatic high that comes with approval of the Office of the President so Danny pressed to be more familiar with Josh, Jed, and especially CJ than his role should have allowed. And it was beautiful when he was called on it:

 

DANNY: Sir, if makes you feel any better I just gave some very sage dating advice to Charlie Young.

TARTLET: You're coaching my Personal Aide on how to best score with my daughter? Yes, Danny, that does make me feel better.

DANNY: Well, anything I can do to help, Mr. President.

BARTLET: Go away.

 

Danny is part of a general principle of mine- it's a West Wing gift for any character/actor to have lots of scenes and repartee opposite CJ/Allison Janney.

 

However, this was all fun and games in S1-4. Fine, I can live with CJ having a love-interest who was kind of an asshole who wasn't handsome enough to really play in CJ's league if it wasn't materializing into anything and he *was* funny and interesting. However, making him the Happy Ending Guy when he was his most insufferable and pushy did tick me off. I should amend that he was OK in Internal Displacement but he annoyed in Reqium and really pissed me off in Institutional Memory. 

So Melancholy, how do you really feel?  :-))

 

I liked Danny overall, but very much agree with your statement that anyone playing opposite AJ automatically upped their game.

 

My fave interaction was Danny very indignantly running down his resume and CJ retorting: "....I don't know why you decided to be your most haughty on the Dallas Morning News in that sentence." tee

[BW Manilowe]

I liked them, then I was annoyed with them, then I was glad he came back after the Simon thing, and I was glad at the beginning of season 7 that they were having a happy ending, but then he annoyed me during season 7. I felt he pressured her when she was already facing a difficult time.

At one of my Christmas festivities, I walked into a room where someone was describing Jed's speech to the conservative radio host (I have no idea her name or even the season). I was like "ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT THE WEST WING?!?" Unfortunately, they only were discussing that is particular scene and did not seem to be big fans as they kept referring to "Martin Sheen said" and didn't know his character's name.

Jed's speech to the Conservative talkradio host (followed by Sam stealing the crab puff off of her plate--which I loved) was in The Midterms. That was Ep 3 of Season 2 (right after the 2-part ep about the assassination attempt on Bartlet & his entourage at the Newseum's original location in Rosslyn, VA). The Conservative talkradio host was Dr. Jenna Jacobs, played by actress Claire Yarlett. Her character was modeled on real-life Conservative talkradio host Dr. Laura Schlesinger (& neither Dr. Jenna's nor the real Dr. Laura's PhD's are/were in psychology or any other subject appropriate for someone whose profession is giving advice to people on a talkradio show). If I remember correctly, Jed's diatribe at Dr. Jenna was supposed to have been based on something that really happened to Dr. Laura; then it was said to have been based on some Email which was being circulated at the time; then, I think, 1 or both explanations were debunked. But I still love that smackdown anyway, & Sam stealing the crab puff, after Jed publicly humiliates her in front of her colleagues, is the icing on the cake for me.

Melancholy: At 1 point when you were quoting the dialogue in your post, you wrote--or your spellcheck wrote--TARTLET instead of BARTLET. Just FYI. It made me laugh.

[Melancholy]

Melancholy: At 1 point when you were quoting the dialogue in your post, you wrote--or your spellcheck wrote--TARTLET instead of BARTLET. Just FYI. It made me laugh.

 

LOL, TRUE STORY, but I had a caramel apple TARTLET last night. I think I've still got it on the brain.... ;-)

[BW Manilowe]

LOL, TRUE STORY, but I had a caramel apple TARTLET last night. I think I've still got it on the brain.... ;-)

Too funny. Happy Holidays!

[BizBuzz]

Aw man, Danny is one of my faves.  Or should I say Timothy Busfield???

 

Loved him in everything he has ever been in (that I have seen) starting from Stripes. 

 

The chemistry between him and CJ in the scene where they kiss for the first time?  OMG, I was sold.  

[jaytee1812]

I was watching Ellie tonight. There's another hint about the Barlet's closeness to Danny. He's the reporter Ellie approaches to make her statement.

I have to say Ellie is my favourite of the daughters, possibly because I just love her two centric episode, Ellie and Eppur Si Muove being two of my favourites. I love the argument between Bartlet and Ellie about whether Gallileo ever actually say 'Eppur Si Muove'

I also love that Ellie is on a research program to develop as HPV vaccines, and now girls get it in school.

[jaytee1812]

Is Stackhouse supposed to be Bernie Sanders?

Or would he not have been a thing when Sorkin was writing seasons 2-4.

Apparently Santos was based on a young state senator at the time called Barack Obama. No idea what happened to him. ;)

[SingleMaltBlonde]

I was watching Ellie tonight. There's another hint about the Barlet's closeness to Danny. He's the reporter Ellie approaches to make her statement.

 

Don't forget that Danny wrote a biography about Abby.

[MaryHedwig]

Warning: This thread contains spoilers for all seven seasons.

 

I just spent the last three weeks neglecting my friends and garden by binge-watching all seven seasons of the West Wing.  I had never seen it before. I am left with many questions, I would love your answers or speculations to my questions.  Perhaps you have some questions of your own.

 

1, Shouldn't Ellie have looked pregnant at her wedding, or at least at Leo's funeral?

2. Does it make sense that Commander Kate had too failed marriages?  I am not sure how she would have crammed those marriages into her decorated past. Did her personality change along with her haircut?  Should the deputy of national security be sporting cleavage in the situation room?

3. Is Will a cad or did he really care about Kate? I am referring to the line where Kate asks what does all their sexually activity mean and Will says "that you are a really good date." Doesn't Kate realized that she is a 10 and Will is a 5, and two of those points thrown in for his steady job and height?

4. Does it make any sense to you that Tobey would have linked confidential information to the press?  Do you think he is covering for someone?  At first I thought he was covering for C.J. but if it were her, I think she would have acted a little more grateful, or at least guilty. I am wondering if Toby's brother's wife came to Tobey with the information and he confessed to the crime when it looked like their investigation was pointing towards her...or maybe, Dave's, Toby's brother's, teenage daughter. Or maybe Tobey realized his ex-wife was the leak and gave the false confession to cover for her, to protect the children and/or maybe as another vain attempt to get her back.  If any of this was true, I think it would have been great if the very last scene of the entire series, while the credits are going, had been one of someone catching Tobey and revealing the information to him, after getting his promise of secrecy.

5. Are Zoey and Charlie still an item? I would have loved just one line from Bartlett in the scene where he gave Charlie the constitution, "Of course I'll probably see you sneaking down my halls in New Hampshire."

 

Let the discussion begin.

[SparedTurkey]

This thread may get moved but oh well - here is my two cents.

 

 

2. Does it make sense that Commander Kate had too failed marriages?  I am not sure how she would have crammed those marriages into her decorated past. Did her personality change along with her haircut?  Should the deputy of national security be sporting cleavage in the situation room?

Why not and why does it matter? Marraiges aren't forever. A year here or a year there. Completely doable. Look at Hollywood. Plus, if the reason for the divorces were the time constraints of both jobs then its pretty easy to imagine a few divorces. Plus wasn't Kate like mid-late 30s?

I didn't see her with much cleavage unless you mean her dress for Ellie's wedding? I didn't think she was ever unprofessional.

 

3. Is Will a cad or did he really care about Kate? I am referring to the line where Kate asks what does all their sexually activity mean and Will says "that you are a really good date." Doesn't Kate realized that she is a 10 and Will is a 5, and two of those points thrown in for his steady job and height?

So, I don't like Will. I think it was a mismatch. Kate was much much better.

 

4. Does it make any sense to you that Tobey would have linked confidential information to the press?  Do you think he is covering for someone?

I think he was - and I think Richard Schiff thought so at the time also. I vaguely remember the some agreement at TWOP being that he had done it on Jed's order. I personally wonder if the original storyline was for it to be CJ but it got changed at the last minute.

And no, it definately was not Andi. If Toby didn't have clearance for the information she sure as shit didn't either.

Maybe the brother's widow, but how would she have known it existed?

[MaryHedwig]

And no, it definitely was not Andi. If Toby didn't have clearance for the information she sure as shit didn't either.

I agree that Andi would not have access to that information. Ignoring that (I agree, a big ignore), I could imagine Andi being one of the people that Toby would be willing to go to prison for.

Maybe the brother's widow, but how would she have known it existed?

Because the brother might have known. Of course she shouldn't have had access to that information but she could have put two and two together. Wouldn't that be true for all significant others of staff with high clearance? Don't they at some point or another see more than have clearance to see?  (These are not rhetorical questions, I am really asking.) Also, I believe Toby mentioned that Dave vaguely bragged about such things when he was drunk. Dave did take his life so maybe he got sloppy with maintaining secrets towards the end of his life. Again, I was just thinking of people that Toby might have been willing to go to prison for- that is why I came up with the idea of Dave having  teenage daughter.

 

Another question. Don't West Wing staffers have a union?  How many hours do they work a day?  Are they compensated for that?  I am thinking especially of the assistants who get called back at all hours.  They are fighting for a 40-hour workweek for the nation but are not afforded one themselves.

 

I feel better knowing that Richard Schiff had similar qualms to the Toby story as I did.

[betsyboo]

I agree that Andi would not have access to that information. Ignoring that (I agree, a big ignore), I could imagine Andi being one of the people that Toby would be willing to go to prison for.

Because the brother might have known. Of course she shouldn't have had access to that information but she could have put two and two together. Wouldn't that be true for all significant others of staff with high clearance? Don't they at some point or another see more than have clearance to see?  (These are not rhetorical questions, I am really asking.) Also, I believe Toby mentioned that Dave vaguely bragged about such things when he was drunk. Dave did take his life so maybe he got sloppy with maintaining secrets towards the end of his life. Again, I was just thinking of people that Toby might have been willing to go to prison for- that is why I came up with the idea of Dave having  teenage daughter.

 

Another question. Don't West Wing staffers have a union?  How many hours do they work a day?  Are they compensated for that?  I am thinking especially of the assistants who get called back at all hours.  They are fighting for a 40-hour workweek for the nation but are not afforded one themselves.

 

I feel better knowing that Richard Schiff had similar qualms to the Toby story as I did.

You can visit the Season 7 thread for all of our thoughts on Toby and whether this rang true for the character. We have been debating this for 15 years! :-))

 

No union - West Wing staffers serve at the pleasure of the President. I live in New York which is an employment at will state. Without a bargaining agreement, your boss can fire you at any time for any reason or no reason at all (save discrimination). In addition, without a bargaining agreement/contract, your boss can ask you to work 24 hours a day, six days in a row as long as they pay you overtime. You just need one day's rest in 7. In my experience anyone in politics, whether its in the West Wing, or a state capitol, works pretty close to 24/7. In addition, some industries have the 24/6 rule waived due to the nature of the business (farming, etc.) Therein ends my limited knowledge. LTGJon would have a lot better (and probably more accurate) info on work in DC.

 

I think we all believe Zoe and Charlie are now married, raising little yankee hellions.

[Guest]

I think Will Bailey is way higher than a 5.  He has that geeky cuteness plus he was a nice guy.  

 

I'm kind of neutral on Kate. Sometimes I like her and some I don't.  I kind of blame her (irrationally) for Leo's first heart attack. 

[BW Manilowe]

Warning: This thread contains spoilers for all seven seasons.

I just spent the last three weeks neglecting my friends and garden by binge-watching all seven seasons of the West Wing. I had never seen it before. I am left with many questions, I would love your answers or speculations to my questions. Perhaps you have some questions of your own.

1, Shouldn't Ellie have looked pregnant at her wedding, or at least at Leo's funeral?

2. Does it make sense that Commander Kate had too failed marriages? I am not sure how she would have crammed those marriages into her decorated past. Did her personality change along with her haircut? Should the deputy of national security be sporting cleavage in the situation room?

3. Is Will a cad or did he really care about Kate? I am referring to the line where Kate asks what does all their sexually activity mean and Will says "that you are a really good date." Doesn't Kate realized that she is a 10 and Will is a 5, and two of those points thrown in for his steady job and height?

4. Does it make any sense to you that Tobey would have linked confidential information to the press? Do you think he is covering for someone? At first I thought he was covering for C.J. but if it were her, I think she would have acted a little more grateful, or at least guilty. I am wondering if Toby's brother's wife came to Tobey with the information and he confessed to the crime when it looked like their investigation was pointing towards her...or maybe, Dave's, Toby's brother's, teenage daughter. Or maybe Tobey realized his ex-wife was the leak and gave the false confession to cover for her, to protect the children and/or maybe as another vain attempt to get her back. If any of this was true, I think it would have been great if the very last scene of the entire series, while the credits are going, had been one of someone catching Tobey and revealing the information to him, after getting his promise of secrecy.

5. Are Zoey and Charlie still an item? I would have loved just one line from Bartlett in the scene where he gave Charlie the constitution, "Of course I'll probably see you sneaking down my halls in New Hampshire."

Let the discussion begin.

1. Whether Ellie should've looked pregnant at her wedding or not probably depends on how far along she was supposed to have been when the pregnancy was discovered & how close the wedding was to that after Ellie & Vic told the Bartlets, & we don't know any of that; we just know that she told her parents she was getting married & pregnant simultaneously. I'm going with "not necessarily" on this. Also, during the ep where they're juggling the wedding planning with either some important meeting or something that unexpectedly came up, they discuss Ellie wearing a gown that has an "empire" waist--which I guess was either to account for, or help camouflage, her growing waistline (while the world obviously knew about her getting married, I'm less certain the fact she was already pregnant was made public at the same time), & they discuss omitting certain foods which aren't supposed to be good/healthy for pregnant women from the reception menu.

2. It can make sense that Kate had two failed marriages if she married, at least the first time, fairly young (I mean, she probably wasn't that young when she entered the Navy--& I forget if she was supposed to have gone to Annapolis or not). As was said, though, her marriages are really irrelevant. As for her haircut... The bangs style in her first season, as I also said in another thread, was supposed to help camouflage any weight gain in her face that might've shown on camera because she was pregnant with her first child while filming her first season. I wouldn't say her personality changed, if it did, as a reflection of her different hairstyle. Probably that's more likely as a reflection of new writers who saw Kate differently than the writers when she was introduced did. And I don't think she ever sported cleavage in the Sit Room. The only time might've been during Ellie's wedding, when Jed had to defuse some situation with China &/or Russia, I think it was. But that was a unique situation. And I think she & Jed worked out of the Oval Office then, instead of the Sit Room.

3. I don't think Will is a cad. I think he cared about Kate. And I think he's better than a 5. Maybe not a 10, but definitely higher than a 5.

4. Toby as the leaker was definitely surprising. But Richard Schiff wanted less screen time, so... Yes, I think he was probably covering for someone. I don't think it was CJ, though she looked guilty, to me, in a certain scene at the end of S6, I guess it was. I think it was probably his brother, David (not Dave)--who was in his own situation with the shuttle simultaneously with the shooting at Rosslyn--or, as someone else mentioned, he "fell on his sword" for Jed (although you couldn't tell it by Jed's behavior when he fired Toby). I don't think it was Toby's sister-in-law, the teenage daughter you mentioned--whom I don't even remember being mentioned. I really don't think it was his ex, Andi. She'd only know that stuff if she were on a NASA-related Congressional subcommittee, & I don't think we know what subcommittees she was on.

5. Well, Zoey & Charlie did seem to get back together in S7, so hopefully they were still together when the show ended. But we don't know for sure. There was speculation, back in the day, the wedding should've been theirs, instead of Ellie & Vic's, but that didn't work out because Dule Hill & Elisabeth Moss were also already doing the first seasons of their next shows--Psych & Mad Men, respectively--& were unavailable. But we also don't know that for sure either.

Small thing... It would've been easier to read/answer the questions if there'd been a blank line after each 1.

[SingleMaltBlonde]

Warning: This thread contains spoilers for all seven seasons.

 

I just spent the last three weeks neglecting my friends and garden by binge-watching all seven seasons of the West Wing.  I had never seen it before. I am left with many questions, I would love your answers or speculations to my questions.  Perhaps you have some questions of your own.

 

1, Shouldn't Ellie have looked pregnant at her wedding, or at least at Leo's funeral?

2. Does it make sense that Commander Kate had too failed marriages?  I am not sure how she would have crammed those marriages into her decorated past. Did her personality change along with her haircut?  Should the deputy of national security be sporting cleavage in the situation room?

3. Is Will a cad or did he really care about Kate? I am referring to the line where Kate asks what does all their sexually activity mean and Will says "that you are a really good date." Doesn't Kate realized that she is a 10 and Will is a 5, and two of those points thrown in for his steady job and height?

4. Does it make any sense to you that Tobey would have linked confidential information to the press?  Do you think he is covering for someone?  At first I thought he was covering for C.J. but if it were her, I think she would have acted a little more grateful, or at least guilty. I am wondering if Toby's brother's wife came to Tobey with the information and he confessed to the crime when it looked like their investigation was pointing towards her...or maybe, Dave's, Toby's brother's, teenage daughter. Or maybe Tobey realized his ex-wife was the leak and gave the false confession to cover for her, to protect the children and/or maybe as another vain attempt to get her back.  If any of this was true, I think it would have been great if the very last scene of the entire series, while the credits are going, had been one of someone catching Tobey and revealing the information to him, after getting his promise of secrecy.

5. Are Zoey and Charlie still an item? I would have loved just one line from Bartlett in the scene where he gave Charlie the constitution, "Of course I'll probably see you sneaking down my halls in New Hampshire."

 

Let the discussion begin.

 

Totally worth ignoring family and friends.

 

2.  Multiple marriages are common in the military and (this might be a stretch...) but this was the era of Don't Ask Don't Tell and many women were pressured into "relationships" to prove they were not gay (I had a few friends/relatives in the miltary at this time)...a hubby on the USS Whatever was a much better answer.  As far as clevage goes...baring a nuns habit or turtleneck clevage happens sometimes.

 

3.  Will isn't everyone's cup of tea....but I'll take mine covered in sugar, thank you very much.

 

4.  I never had a problem with the Toby leak...I think it was a way to process his brother's death...by saving someone else.

 

5.  I agree that Charlie and Zoey are married...they have twins named Bart and Abe.

[Guest]

 

3.  Will isn't everyone's cup of tea....but I'll take mine covered in sugar, thank you very much.

 

4.  I never had a problem with the Toby leak...I think it was a way to process his brother's death...by saving someone else.

 

5.  I agree that Charlie and Zoey are married...they have twins named Bart and Abe.

 

Re. Point 3.  Kindly get your filthy paws off my man.  ;)

 

Point 4: I agree. I think I said that in the Season 7 thread.  I mean, I still had a problem with it, but I justified it in my head by saying he couldn't save his brother, so he wanted to save someone.

 

Point 5: I feel like I'm missing something. Why would those be their twins' names?

[eyebleach]

Maybe this?  https://twitter.com/Zoey_Bartlet

 

Someone(s) tweets as most of the characters.  The Josh/Donna tweets are great!

[MaryHedwig]

5.  I agree that Charlie and Zoey are married...they have twins named Bart and Abe.

Point 5: I feel like I'm missing something. Why would those be their twins' names?

I am assuming the poster was thinking Bart for Bartlett and Abe for Abraham Lincoln.  That is assuming, I suppose, that Ellie already named her child Josiah.

 

I could imagine Zoey and Charlie wanting to name one of their children after Charlie's mother.

Edited January 15, 2016 by MaryHedwig

[PeterPirate]

Beatrice and Bluto are nice names too.

[SingleMaltBlonde]

 

Point 5: I feel like I'm missing something. Why would those be their twins' names?

Bartlett Josiah Young and Abraham (the male version of Abigail) then whatever Abbie's maiden name was....Young

 

I could imagine Zoey and Charlie wanting to name one of their children after Charlie's mother.

That's their first born...I just didn't know her name.

[BW Manilowe]

Point 5: I feel like I'm missing something. Why would those be their twins' names?

Bartlett Josiah Young and Abraham (the male version of Abigail) then whatever Abbie's maiden name was....Young

I could imagine Zoey and Charlie wanting to name one of their children after Charlie's mother.

That's their first born...I just didn't know her name.

Abbey's maiden name, according to the Wikipedia page for the character of Josiah (Jed) Bartlet, & also the show itself, is "Barrington". Her name is Abigail "Abbey" Barrington Bartlet.

I don't believe we ever learned what Charlie's Mother's name was. But his sister's name is Deana (Deanna).

Edited January 16, 2016 by BW Manilowe

[PeterPirate]

That's really curious about Abbey's maiden name being Barrington. I've found some other sites that say the same thing, but don't have a clue where that comes from. I looked through some script sites but can't find the source.   

[morgankobi]

I know it's not the style of the show, but as I rewatch there are about 75 times I just want someone to give Charlie a hug. Maybe at least a shoulder squeeze!

 

Has any crazy person ever tallied how many times "Okay" is said on this show? When binge-watching, it always occurs to me just how often it's said.

Edited March 25, 2016 by morgankobi

[peggy06]

I just finished watching this wonderful show, and I'm already thinking about going back to S2, my favorite season. Like another poster upthread, I was confused about the leak storyline in S6-7. (By far my least-favorite storyline of the series; Richard Schiff and Toby deserved so much better.) I had assumed like most that Toby heard this from his brother, and didn't want to defame his brother (which he actually said at one point). But in one of his final scenes, he said with all apparent sincerity that it wasn't David. Then who? I bothers me that they would write such a disruptive storyline, sidelining a major character and upsetting the relationships among the core cast, and then leave it so open-ended.

[BizBuzz]

But in one of his final scenes, he said with all apparent sincerity that it wasn't David. Then who? I bothers me that they would write such a disruptive storyline, sidelining a major character and upsetting the relationships among the core cast, and then leave it so open-ended.

 

Knowing what I know about RS, I just chalked up the whole leak story line to him wanting to move on from TWW and the writers didn't know what else to do with him.

 

He got his redemption at the end ... with Jed giving him clemency.  So I was ok with it.  I actually thought at the end he was protection someone ... maybe not David, but CJ?  It didn't matter to me. 

[peggy06]

Knowing what I know about RS, I just chalked up the whole leak story line to him wanting to move on from TWW and the writers didn't know what else to do with him.

He got his redemption at the end ... with Jed giving him clemency. So I was ok with it. I actually thought at the end he was protection someone ... maybe not David, but CJ? It didn't matter to me.

Maybe he did want to move on, or less screen time, as someone posted above. But this interview makes it seem like RS held some resentment for the writers/showrunners over the direction of his character. For me, the storyline left a sour feeling that marred the last two seasons.

MaryHedwig, I agree with you on Kate's personality change. She went from being a very correct and private persons to someone who talked almost exclusively about personal stuff. And she did on a number of occasions wear tops that came down to her cleavage. I was OK with them giving her a romance with Will, but the rest of her role seemed to be drastically cut down. I guess it was hard squeezing administration storylines in along with campaign storylines.

Edited March 29, 2016 by peggy06

[Guest]

Rewatching the early seasons, I'm annoyed knowing what comes later with John Hoynes. Not the affair, because I get that things like that happen. But the storyline with his book, re-entry as a sleazy politician, the CJ ONS, etc.  I really, really liked early seasons Hoynes.  Even when he resigned, he did it fairly honorably. He admitted he made a mistake, and he resigned.  When they brought him back, all they were lacking was giving him a mustache to twirl while he laughed evilly.