All Episodes Talk: Walk With Me

[PeterPirate]

From H. Con-172:  

Quote

"Whereas, in his conduct of the Office of the President of the United States, the President has engaged in a course of deceitful and dishonest conduct designed to impede and deny the disclosure of vital matters of public concern, the United States Congress hereby condemns him for acting in a manner contrary to his trust as President to the great prejudice of the cause of justice and to the manifest injury of the American people."

[izabella]

On 9/24/2019 at 12:45 AM, BW Manilowe said:

From USA Today: Watching ‘The West Wing’ 20 Years Later Can Be Depressing... and Hopeful

Just thinking about the show is depressing for me, all things considered. 

[Driad]

Newseum closing.

[Kohola3]

How sad is that.  A sign of the times, I guess.  History is of so little interest days.

[CheshireCat]

On 1/23/2019 at 12:29 AM, deaja said:

Also, he comes across as such an arrogant prick in so much of the MS storyline, especially then.

My best friend has MS and Bartlet's feelings seem kind of real in that moment. It's just a very insiduous disease, if you will and considering when the show aired, it's possible that there was only the one treatment that they mention on the market at the time.

On 1/23/2019 at 12:29 AM, deaja said:

And I get he’s grieving, but smoking and dropping his cigarette butt in the National Cathedral?

His attitude about smoking annoys me throughout the show. So what if he's the President and no one would dare tell him not to smoke (apart from the people in the WH, apparently). He is the President, so he should lead with an example and that not only includes setting a good example and follow the rules but also showing respect and consideration to others. Doing something that harms someone else's health just because you can is none of these things. (Not to mention that smoking is probably a very bad idea when you have MS anyway).

On 9/24/2019 at 8:04 AM, shapeshifter said:

I was not really a TV watcher when TWW first aired, and just began watching it for the first time when a daughter gave me Netflix for last Mothers Day.

I don't even know if the show aired in Germany but someone recommended it to me when Madam Secretary started airing and I watched it a couple of years ago for the first time. I generally enjoy it, the dialogue is right up my ally. but there are some episodes especially in the earlier seasons when I think to myself: thinking very highly of yourself again, boys, aren't you? That certainly was a bunch of overconfident men at times. It doesn't bother me or diminishes my viewing experience, it's just something I noticed.

And as someone who watched it much later, I also enjoyed the later seasons. I'm not much of a fan of how they made it seem like everyone in the WH is just waiting for time to pass now in some episodes and I kind of wish they would have done more with CJ as CoS but I like the Santos campaign story.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

My best friend has MS and Bartlet's feelings seem kind of real in that moment. It's just a very insiduous disease, if you will and considering when the show aired, it's possible that there was only the one treatment that they mention on the market at the time.

I get that, but for me it was more how long it took him and Abby to really admit they did anything wrong. Like, initially, he was pissed at Toby for questioning him on it. She acted shocked that she could face repercussions for illegally administering medicine.  More stuff like that. I also wouldn't have judged it so harshly if these were actions he did soon after finding out, because it is horrible to find out you're sick.  But for 9 years later, he didn't still have that initial shock, and while I like that later, he did seem to accept that what he did was wrong, to me it took too long for him to get there.

[CheshireCat]

2 hours ago, deaja said:

I get that, but for me it was more how long it took him and Abby to really admit they did anything wrong. Like, initially, he was pissed at Toby for questioning him on it.

So was I. 😉 Should Bartlet have told his Senior staff during the campaign? Absolutely. But they didn't and I think Toby needed to get over himself. I also think that Bartlet wasn't that far off the mark when he asked if Toby was pissed he didn't tell him or that 16 people knew before him.

I found CJ's anger much more relateable because she didn't come across as righteous which I think Toby did (and often did in other situations, too).

2 hours ago, deaja said:

More stuff like that. I also wouldn't have judged it so harshly if these were actions he did soon after finding out, because it is horrible to find out you're sick.  But for 9 years later, he didn't still have that initial shock, and while I like that later, he did seem to accept that what he did was wrong, to me it took too long for him to get there.

I think it were the circumstances which pushed him to the point of being angry. Maybe he was also in some sort of denial with regards to how it would affect him and in that moment, it sort of all came crashing down.

I don't know why they chose to give him MS but I think they should have explored it a little more and/or differently to make his reactions a bit more relateable.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

But they didn't and I think Toby needed to get over himself.

But at that point, not only was there the uncertainty of how it would affect their jobs, but their whole lives.  Working for a disgraced administration, which this easily could have turned to, would have ruined their lives. As it was, Charlie was expected to rack up hundreds of thousands of legal fees if things hadn't resolved when they did. What if each of them had done that?  Toby never seemed to have had the super high paying job that Sam and I think Josh did prior to joining the administration - those types of bills would destroy most people's lives. If you add to that being unable to get a job going forward because you were seen as toxic, giving up as much as they all had to get to that point and seeing it could all crash down in an instant - I think it's easy to see why they were pissed.

That being said, I don't think he should have told the senior staff during the campaign. He should have told everyone during the campaign.   I mean, then we wouldn't have the drama of  a tv show, but that's what I think would have been the "right" thing to do.  

But overall, I think Jed is a great guy, so in one way having him act in ways I hate during this arc makes him more believable of a character.  And I do see arrogance as one of his personality traits at other times too, so to me, it is a believable downfall.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I found CJ's anger much more relateable because she didn't come across as righteous

I liked hers best because she's the one the Bartlets had put out there time and again to answer questions about the president's health; she wasn't lying, because she didn't know, but she's the one who was going to be scrutinized almost as much as the two of them; every news station in the country (and beyond) is going to assign an intern to pull up every frame of footage in which she mentions the president's health and put together a package.  Yet she was still one of the last to be told, which made me even angrier on her behalf. 

[CheshireCat]

4 hours ago, deaja said:

But at that point, not only was there the uncertainty of how it would affect their jobs, but their whole lives.  Working for a disgraced administration, which this easily could have turned to, would have ruined their lives. As it was, Charlie was expected to rack up hundreds of thousands of legal fees if things hadn't resolved when they did. What if each of them had done that?  Toby never seemed to have had the super high paying job that Sam and I think Josh did prior to joining the administration - those types of bills would destroy most people's lives. If you add to that being unable to get a job going forward because you were seen as toxic, giving up as much as they all had to get to that point and seeing it could all crash down in an instant - I think it's easy to see why they were pissed.

I completely understand why they were angry. Still, Toby's anger seemed different from anyone else's. I felt that he often came across as entitled and that seemed to be part of his anger, too. I don't know. There was just something about it that never made me feel symapthetic towards him in that episode.

4 hours ago, deaja said:

That being said, I don't think he should have told the senior staff during the campaign. He should have told everyone during the campaign.   I mean, then we wouldn't have the drama of  a tv show, but that's what I think would have been the "right" thing to do.  

Since it was bound to come out, it probably would have been the smart thing to do.

4 hours ago, deaja said:

But overall, I think Jed is a great guy, so in one way having him act in ways I hate during this arc makes him more believable of a character.  And I do see arrogance as one of his personality traits at other times too, so to me, it is a believable downfall.

I definitely agree that there is a certain arrogance to him (just like I think there is to Toby, Josh and Sam). I just don't see this scene as he being arrogant. Just angry at the circumstances and what life has thrown at him.

[sinkwriter]

On 1/22/2019 at 11:29 PM, deaja said:

And I get he’s grieving, but smoking and dropping his cigarette butt in the National Cathedral? So so wrong.

I actually grew to like that scene. That moment when he drops his cigarette butt was so startling and disrespectful in the setting, it was both shocking and remarkable, because in any other circumstance as an adult, there's no way Bartlet would do that. He's so strong in his Catholicism. But he was so angry, because of what happened to Mrs. Landingham and Josh, so he lashed out. So the cigarette butt moment felt really powerful and almost gasp-worthy to me. He was almost saying, "I'm done with you. I don't believe in you anymore. How could you do this? How could you let it happen?" After all his reverence for his faith (especially in previous episodes like Take This Sabbath Day), it was painful yet understanding to see him rail against his God in that moment.

[sinkwriter]

On 10/10/2019 at 4:01 PM, CheshireCat said:

I completely understand why they were angry. Still, Toby's anger seemed different from anyone else's. I felt that he often came across as entitled and that seemed to be part of his anger, too. I don't know. There was just something about it that never made me feel symapthetic towards him in that episode.

I like that scene between Bartlet and Toby because neither of them are particularly admirable or right. (In different ways they're both right and both wrong.) But they're both angry and stubborn and wanting the other person to understand why they're upset, but neither one will budge. It's a very human sort of scene, very honest. It's hard to watch.

Reminds me also of the scene where Bartlet hasn't been sleeping and Toby pisses him off by making a comment about his father hitting him when he was a kid, and Bartlet snaps at him: "I don’t know what the hell goes on in a Brooklyn shrink’s office, but get it the hell out of my house!" Ouch, ouch ouch.

But Toby was right - Bartlet often rode that line between unthreatening / too centrist "Uncle Fluffy" versus super smart, lethal, unafraid to speak his mind Bartlet, and you never knew which one he'd choose to be (which had to be really frustrating for his staff when they wanted to accomplish things but didn't know if he'd really take a stand or not).

[Kohola3]

7 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

That moment when he drops his cigarette butt was so startling and disrespectful in the setting, it was both shocking and remarkable,...

I totally agree and it was one of the most memorable to me.  I won't say favorite because it's not like I loved the idea but it certainly stood out as a shocking and powerful scene.  Martin Sheen did such a fabulous take on that, you could see and feel the roil of emotions there.  Throw in the Latin cursing and it's a huge stand out moment to me from not only the series but most of what I have seen on screen in my life.

[Zola]

Have just been watching Season 2: 9 "Galileo" and the scene between Leo, Josh and Toby

LEO What are you smiling at? (to Josh)

JOSH Nothing, I just... Toby got the stamp assignment. 

TOBY Leo, I might need some help.

LEO Take Josh.

TOBY Thanks. Congratulations, Josh, you're choosing the next stamp.  

JOSH Wow, that happened fast. 

Such a simple but hugely amusing scene, not least for arrogant Josh to get his comeuppance!  It just reminds me how great the writing was for this show.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Zola

[PeterPirate]

I love Toby's rant in 17 People.  It's in my top two scenes of the entire show--the other being Leo telling Bartlet that he has to give the order to kill Shareef "Because you won".  Both of these moments speak to the power of the presidency.

Toby wasn't just teeing off on Bartlet just because he had lied and should be ashamed of himself.  He pointed out that for 90 minutes there had been a "coup d'etat" in which the vice president's authority was "murky" and that it was Leo who really called the shots.  It calls to mind Al Haig saying "I'm in charge" after Reagan was shot.  When presidents keep secrets from the American people, it can cause genuine problems for national security.  

There are times when this show really, really, really holds up.  

[Driad]

Wasn't there a West Wing episode in which Bartlet practiced pitching a baseball, preparing to throw out the first pitch at a game?  Madam Secretary just had a similar scene.  I can't find the West Wing scene, and if there is one I'd enjoy seeing it again.

[Kohola3]

8 hours ago, Driad said:

Wasn't there a West Wing episode in which Bartlet practiced pitching a baseball, preparing to throw out the first pitch at a game?  Madam Secretary just had a similar scene.  I can't find the West Wing scene, and if there is one I'd enjoy seeing it again.

Memorial Day - Season 5.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

Memorial Day - Season 5.

Ah, that explains why I couldn't remember the episode.  I tend to skip that one! 

[sinkwriter]

Quote

 I won't say favorite because it's not like I loved the idea but it certainly stood out as a shocking and powerful scene.  

Yeah, it's more "memorable" than "favorite" for me as well. 

If we're talking favorites, well, there are too many to name, but one that's up there for me is everything involving Toby with In the Shadow of Two Gunmen / The Midterms. I love what Richard Schiff does expression-wise when he finds Josh on the steps. I love how angry and defensive he is later, arguing with CJ about how mad he is and whether or not he should see a counselor, and I love when he finally goes to see the President in the Oval Office and ends up breaking down a little. Such powerful moments.

CJ: You wanna lock up everybody with a white sheet?

TOBY: Yes, I do! Who has a problem with that? Bring 'em to me right now! YES I DO!

[ProudMary]

The West Wing will be leaving Netflix for HBO Max.

The West Wing is walking and talking its way from Netflix to HBO Max

Excerpt: "Aaron Sorkin‘s Emmy-winning political drama, which ran for seven seasons from 1999 to 2006, will arrive on HBO Max when the streaming service launches in spring 2020, EW has learned. This news comes after the platform acquired all episodes of Friends and The Big Bang Theory for its launch."

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, ProudMary said:

The West Wing will be leaving Netflix for HBO Max.

The West Wing is walking and talking its way from Netflix to HBO Max

Excerpt: "Aaron Sorkin‘s Emmy-winning political drama, which ran for seven seasons from 1999 to 2006, will arrive on HBO Max when the streaming service launches in spring 2020, EW has learned. This news comes after the platform acquired all episodes of Friends and The Big Bang Theory for its launch."

Oh dear. I hope this means I have until spring 2020 to finish it. 😢

Edited October 16, 2019 by shapeshifter
2029 is not 2020

[AriAu]

Joshua Malina guested on The Good Doctor last night and I cant tell you the disappointment I had when the episode ended without one scene with Richard Schiff.

Would it have killed them to have someone wheel Joshua out and have him see Richard and shout out "Hey Toby" ala "Hey Salami" in  St Elsewhere's 

[Guest]

No!!!!!! I mean, I have the DVDs, but I still prefer watching on Netflix!

[PeterPirate]

Good thing I also still have my DVD sets for all 7 seasons.  

The pamphlet that came with season 5 had an awesome picture of Martin Sheen throwing out the first pitch.  Sadly, I've lost the pamphlet and cannot find the picture online.  

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

The pamphlet that came with season 5 had an awesome picture of Martin Sheen throwing out the first pitch.  Sadly, I've lost the pamphlet and cannot find the picture online.  

Is this it?

(from https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/04/photos-presidential-first-pitches/000051-000524-fullscreen.html)

[PeterPirate]

12 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Is this it?

Thanks, but that's not it.  And it's a great picture.  Martin Sheen is in full follow-through, with his back leg in the air and everything.  It's the only picture I remember from the inserts. 

[PeterPirate]

From On The Day Before:

Buckland - You can't offer me quid pro quo.  It's against the law.  

[Driad]

Today's Jeopardy game had a Latin vocabulary category. One clue was "posse _______." None of the contenders got it. Isn't TWW part of what they study?

[PeterPirate]

From The Lame Duck Congress: 

Konanov - Errand boys is what they sent me. I'm a reformer. And I will lead the Ukraine, and you know this. And they sent me errand boys!

And:

Bartlet - Vasily, you're a reformer and you're going to do good things in Eastern Europe and I'm looking forward to the day when you're President. But until that time comes, my State Department deals with the government of the Ukraine. Now you can go home and so exactly what you wanted to do. To say you met with the President of the United States.

And from A Change Is Gonna Come:

Charlie - According to Mr. Squire here, the president cannot accept a gift from a foreign government if doing so would violate U. S. law, establish a quid pro quo, or adversely affect the foreign relations of the United States. 

..........

I don't know about the rest of you, but these quotes make me laugh and cry at the same time.   But I will also add that this show is still relevant, and it remains a source of inspiration.  

Edited November 14, 2019 by PeterPirate

[marypat57]

On 11/12/2019 at 7:59 PM, Driad said:

On 11/12/2019 at 7:59 PM, Driad said:

Today's Jeopardy game had a Latin vocabulary category. One clue was "posse _______." None of the contenders got it. Isn't TWW part of what they study?

Of course I shouted out 'commitatus'  to my tv.  I was dissappointed that James Holzhauer didn't get it.  TWW makes you smart.  If only Jed Bartlet were president.....

Even my dyed in the wool Republican brother says he would vote for Jed if he were running.  Of course he loves TWW almost as much as I do..

[wknt3]

3 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

..........

I don't know about the rest of you, but these quotes make me laugh and cry at the same time. But I will also add that this show is still relevant, and it remains a source of inspiration. 

Do you listen to The West Wing Weekly podcast? You're experiencing what they call an "Aye Yi Yi Moment" which there are a lot of when you watch the show these days...

[PeterPirate]

15 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Do you listen to The West Wing Weekly podcast? You're experiencing what they call an "Aye Yi Yi Moment" which there are a lot of when you watch the show these days...

I haven't listened to the podcasts, and for the moment my attention is fixed--well, elsewhere.   Recent events have given me a new sense of optimism, which is embodied in the show.  I recently began a re-watch, hence my Aye Yi Yi moments.  

[ProudMary]

How quaint.

Claudia Jean 'C.J.' Cregg: "You guys are like Butch and Sundance peering over the edge of a cliff to the boulder-filled rapids 300 feet below, thinking you better not jump 'cause there's a chance you might drown. The President has this disease and has been lying about it, and you guys are worried that the polling might make us look bad? It's the fall that's gonna kill ya."

[ProudMary]

Mary Marsh: It was only a matter of time with you, Josh. That New York sense of humor was just a little...

Rev. Al Caldwell: Mary, there's no need to...

Mary Marsh: Reverend, please! They think they're so much smarter! They think it's smart talk, but nobody else does.

Josh: I'm actually from Connecticut. But that's neither here nor there; the point is, Mary, I...

Toby: She meant "Jewish."  When she said "New York sense of humor." She was talking about you and me.

[PeterPirate]

From Take Out The Trash Day:

Bartlet - Throw it out with the trash.

(Today is Friday, after all.)

[AriAu]

So there was a twitter thread about must watch Christmas stuff other than It's a Wonderful Life, Christmas Story, Elf and National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation and after the perfunctory White Christmas and the debate about Die Hard, someone said "Noel ...from The West Wing". 

Genius! But of course, that got me thinking and while it is hard to argue with Noel or In Exclesis Deo, personally, I'll go with Bartlett for America...but then again it is always my first choice of ANY TWW episode! So, obviously, there will be a re-watch this weekend and it'll get a little dusty as Mrs. L talks about "her boys" and the look on Charlie's face at that moment or Toby's as the guns are fired....as well as "a guy 's walking down the street, when....", but I'll take B4A in a close race! 

Edited December 13, 2019 by AriAu

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, AriAu said:

So there was a twitter thread about must watch Christmas stuff other than It's a Wonderful Life, Christmas Story, Elf and National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation and after the perfunctory White Christmas and the debate about Die Hard, someone said "Noel ...from The West Wing". 

Genius! But of course, that got me thinking and while it is hard to argue with Noel or In Exclesis Deo, personally, I'll go with Bartlett for America...but then again it is always my first choice of ANY TWW episode! So, obviously, there will be a re-watch this weekend and it'll get a little dusty as Mrs. L talks about "her boys" and the look on Charlie's face at that moment or Toby's as the guns are fired....as well as "a guy 's walking down the street, when....", but I'll take B4A in a close race! 

You're right @AriAu, Mrs. Landingham telling the story about her boys to Charlie gets me every time.

[PeterPirate]

From 17 People:

Toby - You don't have to break the law to get served with articles of impeachment.

 

[LizDC]

Martin Sheen in new commercial with a WW shoutout...

 

[shapeshifter]

I am watching TWW for the first time (didn’t own a TV when it began). I find it to be a great opiate without side effects, and not just as an antidote to current political craziness as noted in this new NY Times article. TWW is good medicine for both chronic physical pain and mental anguish due to unsolvable problems. I’m almost through season 5. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Umbelina]

On 9/24/2019 at 5:04 AM, shapeshifter said:

I was not really a TV watcher when TWW first aired, and just began watching it for the first time when a daughter gave me Netflix for last Mothers Day. 

Like the author of this article describes, it is both “depressing” and “hopeful.” 

Watching it for the first time now (just finished 4.3 last night) I feel like I have opened a time capsule 20 years after the apocalypse. 

But not only do I have better technology with which to view this time capsule’s contents than did the contemporaries it depicts, and not only does this time capsule heartbreakingly reveal the social interactions of an extinct way of life, but the quality of the writing, directing, and acting would be enthralling on its own to any TV archaeologist. 

Anyway, I feel kind of indescribably special watching it for the first time now, and wonder if Sorkin or any of the others involved in the show had any inkling of preserving a snapshot of the peak of political self-awareness and moral introspection for a future generation after the apocalypse. 

________________

article originally published at https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/media/2019/07/19/watching-the-west-wing-20-years-later-both-sad-and-hopeful/1721335001/

Almost a complete ditto, not a mother's day gift but I started in Sept as well, and now with the Netflix news will be scurrying to finish it all before it's gone from Netflix.

On 10/12/2019 at 10:09 PM, sinkwriter said:

I actually grew to like that scene. That moment when he drops his cigarette butt was so startling and disrespectful in the setting, it was both shocking and remarkable, because in any other circumstance as an adult, there's no way Bartlet would do that. He's so strong in his Catholicism. But he was so angry, because of what happened to Mrs. Landingham and Josh, so he lashed out. So the cigarette butt moment felt really powerful and almost gasp-worthy to me. He was almost saying, "I'm done with you. I don't believe in you anymore. How could you do this? How could you let it happen?" After all his reverence for his faith (especially in previous episodes like Take This Sabbath Day), it was painful yet understanding to see him rail against his God in that moment.

I agree.  I don't have to believe in any of it to understand how HE had to be feeling in that moment.

On 11/14/2019 at 11:45 AM, wknt3 said:

Do you listen to The West Wing Weekly podcast? You're experiencing what they call an "Aye Yi Yi Moment" which there are a lot of when you watch the show these days...

Something to do when my binge ends, or rather when Netflix broadcasting it ends.

On 11/27/2019 at 2:23 PM, ProudMary said:

How quaint.

Claudia Jean 'C.J.' Cregg: "You guys are like Butch and Sundance peering over the edge of a cliff to the boulder-filled rapids 300 feet below, thinking you better not jump 'cause there's a chance you might drown. The President has this disease and has been lying about it, and you guys are worried that the polling might make us look bad? It's the fall that's gonna kill ya."

One of my favorite lines.  Of many.

I'd love a reboot, but it's hard to imagine now.   

--

ETA

Are the DVD extras good?  Oh, and holy hell at "Josh" growing up to be "Commander Lawrence!"  I actually had to google that to be sure it was the same guy!

Edited December 31, 2019 by Umbelina

[Driad]

Many public libraries have the DVDs.

[PeterPirate]

On 12/26/2019 at 6:20 PM, LizDC said:

Martin Sheen in new commercial with a WW shoutout...

 

That was awesome.  Martin Sheen owes royalties to himself.  

[AriAu]

RIP Buck Henry....

Buck Henry had a small acting role in (beyond being the writer of)  The Graduate with

Dustin Hoffman who was in Little Fockers with

 Teri Polo....New Flotus even tho she didn't get the last spot on the varsity swim team or get Don (something or other) to take her to the Prom

[marypat57]

In last night's episode of Perfect Harmony, Josh Molina served with Bradley Whitford as a judge in a local talent contest.  

It's always good to see TWW castmates together again.

And yes, I loved the Single Care commercial with Martin Sheen!

[A.Ham]

Just gonna leave this here for those who are interested: 

Gotta love him—he’s quoting from Rabindranath Tagore's "Gitanjali".

Edited January 11, 2020 by A.Ham

[UYI]

So with Netflix dropping the show (BOOOOO), I am currently collecting the DVDs (YAY!), and having just completed my re-watch of season 1, my opinion remains the same as it did when I first watched the show nearly three years ago: When I watch Josh and Donna onscreen together, I see a brother and sister type relationship, not two potential love interests. I'll see how I feel as my re-watch continues, but as I remember it, the only reason I bought anything between them by the end is because the writing gave me no choice in the matter. Because just watching them again as boss and employee...it doesn't come across to me at all; that kind of chemistry just isn't there, IMO. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by UYI

[shapeshifter]

34 minutes ago, UYI said:

So with Netflix dropping the show (BOOOOO), I am currently collecting the DVDs (YAY!), and having just completed my re-watch of season 1, my opinion remains the same as it did when I first watched the show nearly three years ago: When I watch Josh and Donna onscreen together, I see a brother and sister type relationship, not two potential love interests. I'll see how I feel as my re-watch continues, but as I remember it, the only reason I bought anything between them by the end is because the writing gave me no choice in the matter. Because just watching them again as boss and employee...it doesn't come across to me at all; that kind of chemistry just isn't there, IMO. 

The way Josh always yelled “Donna!” seemed to me like she should have resented him IRL (I sure would have added him to my list of men I am so glad to not be married to), but I guess the writers did manage to believably spin the “I’ve grown accustomed to your face ♫” story by the end. The turning point seemed to be when Donna was in the hospital in Germany and needed to go back for more emergency surgery, and she asked for Josh instead of the photographer lover because she could tell Josh she was afraid, and if she was going to die, theirs was an actual relationship worth having last words. 

[PeterPirate]

12 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

The turning point seemed to be when Donna was in the hospital in Germany and needed to go back for more emergency surgery, and she asked for Josh instead of the photographer lover because she could tell Josh she was afraid, and if she was going to die, theirs was an actual relationship worth having last words. 

Plus, the fact that Josh was in Germany.  

[PeterPirate]

From And It's Surely To Their Credit:

Tribbey - Leave here, and don't ever come back. It's time for you to write your book now.