S02.E11: 211

[cardigirl]

Numerous theories have been posted about who the actual killer of Scotty is. I posted mine in the speculation thread. ;)

[cardigirl]

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/12/the-affair-season-2-noah-novel

I don't necessarily agree with everything in this article, but thought some of our commentators on here would appreciate this writer's take on Season 2.

[JenE4]

I guess what I don't understand is why this is being treated as a murder mystery/prosecution drama in the first place. Scotty was walking down a dark, twisty road, probably while high/drunk, and got run over and left for dead. It's not like he was shot or stabbed, it was an accident. The worst crime was probably leaving the scene and maybe driving recklessly or while impaired. It was night of a big wedding of a scion of a well known townie family, and given how may people we've seen driving while impaired (Helen, Noah, Cole and probably Max too) it could have been anyone drunkenly making their way home.

It's not like Noah just happened to be driving along, came across Scotty, and said, "hey! there's that guy that knocked up my daughter 3 years ago! I think I'll floor it and kill him!" Someone was probably driving recklessly, killed him, and drove off in a panic. I can't believe the prosecution even has a case at all.

I live in NJ so I just--two seconds ago--saw a NY news report that they're thinking of increasing penalties for hit and runs so a fatal hit and run would be increased to a $5,000 fine. A fine! And it's not even that high yet! I agree that it makes no sense that this would be treated as some premeditated murder or even an act of passion based on opportunity. If anything it would have been accidental hit and run. That being said, they keep playing up Noah's fantasy of running down Alison like in his book. This time it happened while driving and he DID hit the gas like he was experiencing doing it. So I wouldn't be surprised if Alison and Noah did get into a fight at the wedding and he imagined seeing her in the road again but, oops, it was Scotty. Then again, it's probably just a red herring.

[RedInk]

I live in NJ so I just--two seconds ago--saw a NY news report that they're thinking of increasing penalties for hit and runs so a fatal hit and run would be increased to a $5,000 fine. A fine! And it's not even that high yet! I agree that it makes no sense that this would be treated as some premeditated murder or even an act of passion based on opportunity. If anything it would have been accidental hit and run. That being said, they keep playing up Noah's fantasy of running down Alison like in his book. This time it happened while driving and he DID hit the gas like he was experiencing doing it. So I wouldn't be surprised if Alison and Noah did get into a fight at the wedding and he imagined seeing her in the road again but, oops, it was Scotty. Then again, it's probably just a red herring.

Oh, wow, really? I'm in Texas, and hit-and-run/leaving the scene of a crime is a felony, with jail time. Vehicular manslaughter can get you 10+ years. It never crossed my mind that a case like this wouldn't be prosecuted, even if it were unintentional. It seems even more egregious if the suspect had a relationship with victim...which would bring murder into question. Although I agree that's a bizarre way to kill someone.

Edited December 15, 2015 by RedInk

[Janc]

Back at the other thread for episode 10, a poster interpreted "it's our baby" to mean it's a Lockhart baby. 

 

Now that we know about the ownership of the Lobster Roll, how can Oscar and Richard Schiff assume the 'baby' that Scotty was talking about is Joanie, and not the restaurant that Alison and Cole (and possibly Scotty) now co-own?  An actual baby was all we, the viewer, could assume when that big reveal happened a few episodes back, but where the show is right now in time, there is plausibly more than one thing that is a valuable joint asset between Alison and the Lockharts? My theory could indeed be blown to bits if it is revealed next episode that Alison gives up her co-ownership, but that's been bothering me...

[Pallas]

But if they're business partners, one would presume he may have seen the baby before. So I wonder whether Noah made Alison give up her share of The Lobster Roll in order to marry him--or maybe Alison always intended to be a silent partner, and they just mail her profit check.

 

 

I think Alison as silent partner is what Cole had in mind, and the only reason Louisa would agree to the arrangement.  What Alison wants to believe is another matter: she envisions being in Montauk, as co-owner of the restaurant managed by her partner's wife. A two-sided view of the scene where Cole presents the pitch to Alison -- what he said; what she heard -- would have been intriguing

[blixie]

 

But.... doesn't Cole know that he himself had sex with Allison and the approximate age of the child? I mean, it's not like Scotty knows some secret.

 

We are in Magic Sarah Treem land where no one knows MATHS.

[racked]

We are in Magic Sarah Treem land where no one knows MATHS.

And Scotty the strung out junkie figured it out just by looking at the baby! Who, yeah, has the same coloring as Cole, but so does Allison! It's a very silly way to take the story. 

 

I wonder if the show is suffering from its own premise. So many of the things that don't make sense might just be because we are seeing things from that characters POV.  The last episode was Noah's POV, not Allison's. Maybe in her version of events, the partnership with Cole is just an investment and she never planned on moving back to Montauk, but Noah was so freaked out by her association with Cole that he made it something more? It almost makes me miss seeing the same events from the different POVs. 

[molshoop]

It's too bad we have to spend so much time inside of the head of the most unreliable narrator of the four.
Noah is self loathing and self pitying.  He is also adept at creating fiction as long as it's based on his own
life.

 

As Noah's feeling about Alison "descend", we the viewers are brought along for the ride.  I don't know
who Alison really is, not because she doesn't understand herself, but because Noah can't be bothered
to really get to know her now that the blinding passion is gone.

 

I think that Ruth Wilson's talents are really being wasted this season.

Edited December 15, 2015 by molshoop

[HOTNTX53]

Is it just me or does it seem like there are ALOT of loose ends to be tied up in next week's season finale?  Many of the issues/scenarios that we saw at the end of Season 1 still aren't resolved or just haven't been addressed (mostly the scenes where Noah is arrested or court room scenes) this season. The obvious resolutions that need to happen are "who is Joanie's father" and "who killed Scotty".  If they aren't, I think that the showrunners risk losing much of their audience.  Will any of us care 2 years (real time) later, if we don't get answers next week??

 

For some reason I think that Max has a high probability of being the "killer".  He's been thrown in sporadically enough during the past 2 or 3 episodes. He seems "vengeful" enough after this past week's episode and now that he has his own home in Montauk, it seems to me like Treem is placing him at the scene of the crime. Add in the fact that it seems like Max's life is pretty dismal, aside from the hedge fund money he has, his drinking/drugging and being on the road at the wrong place and time could spell "he did it".

[cardigirl]

Don't get it.  Angry Scotty says to Cole "I could tell you something that would f up your world!!" But.... doesn't Cole know that he himself had sex with Allison and the approximate age of the child? I mean, it's not like Scotty knows some secret. Why does everyone act like Cole needs to be told?

I dunno, I think a lot of men wouldn't give it two thoughts.  Apparently Noah didn't question the timing of the pregnancy or how far along she might be or not.  They had been apart for 6 weeks when she told him she was pregnant.  We didn't get a scene where he asked her when she realized or anything.  I guess we can think that Noah just took her at her word and that she might be farther along than she really was (if it's Cole's) or less farther along if it's Oscar's (I know, the timeline is off for that). In other words, if Alison was 4 months along, but told Noah she was 2 months along, he would believe her.  Because he's oblivious.  And, as far as we know, after Alison's night with Cole, she left, and he didn't see her again until the meeting in the bar, which could be about 12-15 months later. All he may have heard was that she was pregnant, or that she had had a baby, but the particulars he probably wouldn't know or even think to ask. 

[ChromaKelly]

Did we learn prior to this episode that Luisa's mother worked for the Butlers? That seems way too contrived. I thought Luisa's family lived in Queens.

 

Also - Cole was prompted to want to buy the Lobster Roll because Luisa was getting annoyed with her boss and said she wished she had her own place. Is the Lobster Roll the type of restaurant she would want to run?

Edited December 15, 2015 by ChromaKelly

[Former Nun]

Is it possible that they only kissed and cuddled without going through with sex?

 

 

But isn't Allison the personification of SEX?  No man anywhere near her (especially in a prone position) can resist sticking it in, so to speak.  Even if SEX isn't particularly willing (see being banged against a tree), she will yield.

[JenE4]

Did we learn prior to this episode that Luisa's mother worked for the Butlers? That seems way too contrived. I thought Luisa's family lived in Queens.

 

Yes. Remember when Cole was dropping off Mr. Butler in his taxi? He met Luisa when he almost ran over some boy playing in the driveway, and Luisa said her mother worked there.

[grumpypanda]

Did we learn prior to this episode that Luisa's mother worked for the Butlers? That seems way too contrived. I thought Luisa's family lived in Queens.

Also - Cole was prompted to want to buy the Lobster Roll because Luisa was getting annoyed with her boss and said she wished she had her own place. Is the Lobster Roll the type of restaurant she would want to run?

Cole met Lousia for the first time at the Butler's house after he gave Bruce a ride in his cab. I think Lousia said something about visiting her mom there. I don't know if Miranda actually lives at the Butler's house but it's possible that the Queens apartment belongs to another relative.

[Muffyn]

But isn't Allison the personification of SEX?  No man anywhere near her (especially in a prone position) can resist sticking it in, so to speak.  Even if SEX isn't particularly willing (see being banged against a tree), she will yield.

If ever there was a moment when the post and the user name worked so perfectly, this is it.  Thanks, Former Nun! 

[ChromaKelly]

Yes. Remember when Cole was dropping off Mr. Butler in his taxi? He met Luisa when he almost ran over some boy playing in the driveway, and Luisa said her mother worked there.

Oh right. Thank you. Did we ever find out who that kid was?

[Janc]

Oh right. Thank you. Did we ever find out who that kid was?

 

 Yep, remember his mom was banging Cole upstairs in her room when her husband walked in on them? 

[cardigirl]

Oh right. Thank you. Did we ever find out who that kid was?

I think he was the child of the woman who was paying Cole for sex. 

[ChromaKelly]

Oh wow, now I feel like I'm having memory gaps or something. I remember that but somehow didn't connect that kid to the sex woman. Although I may have tried to scrub that awful sex scene from my brain.

 

I guess like five families live in Montauk.

Edited December 15, 2015 by ChromaKelly

[Blakeston]

If Cole had unprotected sex with Alison that night, and he knew by the time they met in the bar that she'd had a baby, I think the thought would have to have occurred to him that the baby was his. The only way I can see him ignoring that possibility is if he just didn't want it to be true, and put it out of mind.

 

Oh, wow, really? I'm in Texas, and hit-and-run/leaving the scene of a crime is a felony, with jail time. Vehicular manslaughter can get you 10+ years. It never crossed my mind that a case like this wouldn't be prosecuted, even if it were unintentional.

 

It's a felony in New York, as well. The punishment for killing someone in a hit and run is pretty severe. The bill would just add a penalty of up to $10,000, in addition to the penalties that already exist.

Now that we know about the ownership of the Lobster Roll, how can Oscar and Richard Schiff assume the 'baby' that Scotty was talking about is Joanie, and not the restaurant that Alison and Cole (and possibly Scotty) now co-own?  An actual baby was all we, the viewer, could assume when that big reveal happened a few episodes back, but where the show is right now in time, there is plausibly more than one thing that is a valuable joint asset between Alison and the Lockharts? My theory could indeed be blown to bits if it is revealed next episode that Alison gives up her co-ownership, but that's been bothering me...

While the lawyer doesn't seem to be the brightest bulb, I don't think he believes that the statement was proof of anything. He's looking for anything that might help exonerate Noah, and when you have a recording of Scotty saying, "That's our baby," it's reason enough to look into Joanie's paternity.

[right]

I dunno, I think a lot of men wouldn't give it two thoughts.  Apparently Noah didn't question the timing of the pregnancy or how far along she might be or not.  They had been apart for 6 weeks when she told him she was pregnant.  We didn't get a scene where he asked her when she realized or anything.  I guess we can think that Noah just took her at her word and that she might be farther along than she really was (if it's Cole's) or less farther along if it's Oscar's (I know, the timeline is off for that). In other words, if Alison was 4 months along, but told Noah she was 2 months along, he would believe her.  Because he's oblivious.  And, as far as we know, after Alison's night with Cole, she left, and he didn't see her again until the meeting in the bar, which could be about 12-15 months later. All he may have heard was that she was pregnant, or that she had had a baby, but the particulars he probably wouldn't know or even think to ask. 

 

Some guys wouldn't give it a second thought, but could Cole just ignore the possibility that his ex-wife with whom he lost his only other child, might have had his daughter?  That just seems too far out of the realm of reality.  Especially when he should remember Scotty showing up on the deck that night he and Alison spent at the beach house.  Looking at Scotty while driving him to rehab, Cole should have slapped his forehead, and gone, "of course, Scotty thinks I'm Joanie's father!".

 

Noah is so wrapped up with himself that I agree he would never come to the conclusion someone else might be Joanie's dad.  Even though Alison admitted to cheating on him in the past.  Noah's a dork.

[cardigirl]

Some guys wouldn't give it a second thought, but could Cole just ignore the possibility that his ex-wife with whom he lost his only other child, might have had his daughter?  That just seems too far out of the realm of reality.  Especially when he should remember Scotty showing up on the deck that night he and Alison spent at the beach house.  Looking at Scotty while driving him to rehab, Cole should have slapped his forehead, and gone, "of course, Scotty thinks I'm Joanie's father!".

Well, Cole has been focused on other things.  He was moving on. I really believe he could not make the connection until he sees Joanie the first time. 

[briochetwist]

Maybe someone could answer this for me. I could be very wrong about this, because I'm having a very hard time remembering Season 1, but weren't Allison and Cole trying to have another baby and it wasn't working?

[truthaboutluv]

After Cole finds out about the affair with Noah and comes to find Alison in NY, they agree to go back and try to fix their marriage and he suggests they try to have another baby. However it was never mentioned again and it was only a few months later Alison's grandmother died and Noah came back to Montauk and the affair started up again. 

[shopper73]

If you notice when Noah was in the bathroom he was looking in the mirror when he was at his "desk" and also only saw Allison in the mirror which is how he sees her: it is a symbolic metaphor I think. He only sees Allison as a character in his book, not as a person he needs to be listening to. Allison is like a piece of driftwood that is loose in the ocean and had no direction or intent.

[shopper73]

Also, I think cole and Allison belong together. They have history and probably a child together but they couldn't overcome the death of Gabriel without separating and going through this descent. I think Allison used Noah more than the other way around, even though she allowed him to write his best seller. It has come at quite a cost to Noah as he lost his family and now an old friend and had turned into his father in law who he despises.

[Ellaria]

Now that we know about the ownership of the Lobster Roll, how can Oscar and Richard Schiff assume the 'baby' that Scotty was talking about is Joanie, and not the restaurant that Alison and Cole (and possibly Scotty) now co-own?  An actual baby was all we, the viewer, could assume when that big reveal happened a few episodes back, but where the show is right now in time, there is plausibly more than one thing that is a valuable joint asset between Alison and the Lockharts? My theory could indeed be blown to bits if it is revealed next episode that Alison gives up her co-ownership, but that's been bothering me...

 

I think that this is quite plausible, especially when their conversation conveniently occurred in front of the "Lockhart's Lobster Roll" sign. The paternity issue could be a huge red herring. Whatever it is, I want it to be resolved next week. I hope that we see the full conversation between Scotty and Alison so that the context of the "baby" reference is made clear. I actually love the idea that the baby = the Lobster Roll and not Joanie. Wouldn't Scotty be more concerned about income rather than legacy?

 

I've been trying to reconcile Alison's attitude in this episode with her attitude/demeanor at the end of S1. The comment above about Alison giving up her joint ownership of the LR sparked this thought: is it possible that Alison gives up her ownership after Scotty's death in an attempt to sever all ties to Montauk? If she or Noah or someone close to them is guilty, wouldn't it be a good idea to get as far away from the crime as possible?

 

And Scotty the strung out junkie figured it out just by looking at the baby! Who, yeah, has the same coloring as Cole, but so does Allison! It's a very silly way to take the story. 

 

I wonder if the show is suffering from its own premise. So many of the things that don't make sense might just be because we are seeing things from that characters POV.  The last episode was Noah's POV, not Allison's. Maybe in her version of events, the partnership with Cole is just an investment and she never planned on moving back to Montauk, but Noah was so freaked out by her association with Cole that he made it something more? It almost makes me miss seeing the same events from the different POVs. 

 

Agree on both counts. Scotty's epiphany about Joanie's paternity when he was strung out and desperate is a bit ridiculous. Perhaps that explains Gottlief's response when he viewed the DNA results of the pacifier. He was expecting to see that Scotty was the father. Maybe Noah is the daddy after all.

 

Seeing Alison's actions this week from her POV would have helped explain why she suddenly wanted to be back in Montauk. I think that we could have benefited from the dual POV in a number of instances this season.

[blixie]

 

but could Cole just ignore the possibility that his ex-wife with whom he lost his only other child, might have had his daughter?

 

Right the idea it never even crossed his damn mind is ABSURD, it's not absurd he suspected and dismissed it for whatever reasons, but it is just not believable to me that he did not wonder at all that the kid could be his. Treem likes to play fast and loose with how involved/disconnected Cole-Alison have been since their divorce, so who knows really, and since I can't know I refuse to care about her precious soapy plot point.

[Cosmocrush]

Why would Max tell Noah about being in love with Helen?

I loved this scene.  I think he thought enough time had passed (hasn't it been something like two years since Noah left Helen?) and thought maybe Noah could be  a real friend for once.  Max had a major heartbreak.   I loved Max pointing out that for the past couple of years Noah only showed up when he [Noah] was having some sort of crisis but never bothered to just be a friend; to ask Max how he was doing, have dinner without needing to whine about himself all the time or even just stop by Max's place to see him, not because he was looking for yet more help.  

 

Not to defend Noah, because, ugh, but I'd really like to remind that literary agent that Donna Tartt and Jeffrey Eugenides only put out a book roughly every ten years and they've both won Pulitzer prizes and sold millions.

 

Edited to add that I do get where the agent was coming from, just because you know he's completely blowing smoke up Noah's ass about what a great writer he is.

Agreed.  I actually thought the agent made sense.  Noah isn't going to write that great Omar Bradley novel in the bathroom [or at all] but he needs to write something people will buy and he needs to do it soon.

 

I wonder if Max was really giving him loans and Noah perceived them as gifts.

The previouslys on this episode replayed the conversation where Max specifically tells Noah the $50K isn't a loan, it's a gift.  

 

As far as the wonky accounting of money thing goes with the NYC rent, sale of Allison's house and purchase of the Lobster Roll, I don't worry about it because fictional TV characters often [mostly] have budgets that defy reality.  Remember the NYC apartment on Friends?  I look at Noah and Allison's apartment the same way.  Ditto for the sale of The Lobster Roll and Allison's house.   We are supposed to believe Noah made a small fortune from his book just like we are supposed to believe it was nominated for a literary prize. 

 

My money is still on Whitney as the driver that killed Scotty and Noah knows it or at least believes it.  He is covering for her or thinks he is anyway.    It explains why Helen would hire a high powered attorney too, although maybe she just didn't want to see her children's father in prison.   This week the writers awkwardly reminded us that Scotty impregnated Whitney and Whitney didn't talk to her father for at lest 9/10 months after the incident at the party. 

Edited December 15, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[GeminiDancer]

 

The previouslys on this episode replayed the conversation where Max specifically tells Noah the $50K isn't a loan, it's a gift.

 

Oh, I know. But since it's Noah's POV, he might have interpreted it as a gift, when it's really a loan.

[Empress1]

The Max and Noah scene is one of my favorites. "All you ever wanted was more; all I ever wanted was her" is a great, succinct line that sums up Noah. He's never going to be content with what he has. Max has millions and could probably sleep with whomever he wanted - he's not bad-looking, and, you know, millions. At one point he was "banging a 23-year-old." There's no shortage of young women in NYC looking to hook a finance guy; he could be sleeping with a different woman every night, but he wanted to make Helen happy. They should switch lives, but they can't. I also loved Max calling Noah out on being a shitty friend. 

 

Alison ... you know what, whatever. I'm sick of her and her "wounded bird" thing, to quote Oscar. Nothing that she did in this episode was anything a rational adult would do, and grownups who don't act like grownups drive me nuts.

[Cosmocrush]

From the PTV recap:

 

Phillip: But by the end of the segment, Cole has promised Scotty a tiny slice of the joint Lockhart-Bailey Lobster Roll. He can't escape Scotty's orbit. We can't escape Scotty.

 

Lisa: This is where I disagree with you. My theory is that Cole promised Scotty that as a reward for staying clean -- which he already knows won't happen. But he hopes it does, right? So from Cole's perspective, it's win-win. I also think that he promised Scotty the tiny buy-in because he wants to find out what dirt Scotty is claiming to have on Alison.

 

I saw it the way Lisa saw it, but I'd like to know what everyone else thought. 

[truthaboutluv]

Yeah I agree with Lisa as well. Addicts can be very manipulative and Scotty especially is the definition of manipulative. So Cole just tried to reach him the best way he could - "I'll give you a share only if you get clean..."

[heatherchandler]

I guess what I don't understand is why this is being treated as a murder mystery/prosecution drama in the first place.  Scotty was walking down a dark, twisty road, probably while high/drunk, and got run over and left for dead.  It's not like he was shot or stabbed, it was an accident.  The worst crime was probably leaving the scene and maybe driving recklessly or while impaired.  It was night of a big wedding of a scion of a well known townie family, and given how may people we've seen driving while impaired (Helen, Noah, Cole and probably Max too) it could have been anyone drunkenly making their way home.

 

It's not like Noah just happened to be driving along, came across Scotty, and said, "hey! there's that guy that knocked up my daughter 3 years ago!  I think I'll floor it and kill him!"  Someone was probably driving recklessly, killed him, and drove off in a panic.  I can't believe the prosecution even has a case at all.

 

You are so right!  How is this a murder mystery??  It is like an accident with a cover-up that could have been anyone. 

 

It would have been better if he was shot or drowned or something.  But hit and run?  Meh.

 

And really WHO CARES??  I feel like I should be somewhat invested in the whodunit, but I am not.

[Cosmocrush]

You are so right!  How is this a murder mystery??  It is like an accident with a cover-up that could have been anyone. 

Because it was a hit and run, which isn't the same as accidentally killing someone with your car and then calling the police while you wait at the scene.  Leaving the scene makes it a murder, at least to me.  Just a guess since I'm not sure about legally.  

[heatherchandler]

Is it just me or does it seem like there are ALOT of loose ends to be tied up in next week's season finale?  Many of the issues/scenarios that we saw at the end of Season 1 still aren't resolved or just haven't been addressed (mostly the scenes where Noah is arrested or court room scenes) this season. The obvious resolutions that need to happen are "who is Joanie's father" and "who killed Scotty".  If they aren't, I think that the showrunners risk losing much of their audience.  Will any of us care 2 years (real time) later, if we don't get answers next week??

 

 

 

 

And really HOW are they going to have a Season 3??  I heard that there will be one for sure.

Because it was a hit and run, which isn't the same as accidentally killing someone with your car and then calling the police while you wait at the scene.  Leaving the scene makes it a murder, at least to me.  Just a guess since I'm not sure about legally.  

Yeah, I can see how it is murder, but unless he was lured out into the road and then killed - how is this a premise that makes us CARE?  Did they expect this to be suspenseful?  Maybe it is for some people, but I find it silly.  An accident that gets covered up isn't all that interesting to me.

[Blakeston]

As far as the wonky accounting of money thing goes with the NYC rent, sale of Allison's house and purchase of the Lobster Roll, I don't worry about it because fictional TV characters often [mostly] have budgets that defy reality.  Remember the NYC apartment on Friends?  I look at Noah and Allison's apartment the same way.  Ditto for the sale of The Lobster Roll and Allison's house.   We are supposed to believe Noah made a small fortune from his book just like we are supposed to believe it was nominated for a literary prize.

 

At least on Friends, though, they offered an explanation - the apartment was rent-controlled, and was still in Monica's aunt's name.

 

On this show, which is so focused on money and class, they went out of their way to emphasize how huge and expensive the apartment was. And they specifically told us how much Noah got as an advance - $400,000. (And much of that would have gone to taxes and Noah's agent.) The money he got could never pay for that place for that amount of time, along with all of their other expenses. So why give us those specifics?

And really HOW are they going to have a Season 3??  I heard that there will be one for sure.

Yeah, I can see how it is murder, but unless he was lured out into the road and then killed - how is this a premise that makes us CARE?  Did they expect this to be suspenseful?  Maybe it is for some people, but I find it silly.  An accident that gets covered up isn't all that interesting to me.

Everyone assumed it was an accidental hit and run after Scotty was killed, but the police suspected otherwise, and now Noah is accused of intentionally running down Scotty. If that's what the driver did, it's murder, not an accident.

[JenE4]

From the PTV recap:

I saw it the way Lisa saw it, but I'd like to know what everyone else thought.

Yes, I agree. Because of the present-time scenes with the lawyer telling the detective how Cole stole the Lobster Roll from his brother (to cast Cole as a suspect), it's pretty apparent that Scotty never got his buy-in.

[918lux]

Because it was a hit and run, which isn't the same as accidentally killing someone with your car and then calling the police while you wait at the scene. Leaving the scene makes it a murder, at least to me. Just a guess since I'm not sure about legally.

Do we know why the actual charges are? Murder requires intent, an accident would be manslaughter I think. Does NY have the death penalty?

[Cosmocrush]

And really HOW are they going to have a Season 3??  I heard that there will be one for sure.

Yeah, I can see how it is murder, but unless he was lured out into the road and then killed - how is this a premise that makes us CARE?  Did they expect this to be suspenseful?  Maybe it is for some people, but I find it silly.  An accident that gets covered up isn't all that interesting to me.

The only reason I ever cared about Scotty's death wasn't about Scotty but how it might affect our main characters.   But yes, the more we get to know Noah the less I really care about what happens to him.  

[Margherita Erdman]

Yes. Remember when Cole was dropping off Mr. Butler in his taxi? He met Luisa when he almost ran over some boy playing in the driveway, and Luisa said her mother worked there.

I don't think I care enough to go back and re-watch (plus, predatory nympho botoxed bored wifey/detached mom was so repellent I don't ever want to see her again) but I thought he first saw Luisa because she was the nanny for scary nympho's kid, and scary nympho was the fare he was dropping off at her house.

In any case, it was a surprise to me that Luisa was the daughter of the Butlers' housekeeper (what is her name anyway? Esmeralda? I can never make it out). You would have thought we'd have seen her around the house before, unless she was raised by relatives in Queens while her mom mothered the odious Butlers and their kin.

[JenE4]

I don't think I care enough to go back and re-watch (plus, predatory nympho botoxed bored wifey/detached mom was so repellent I don't ever want to see her again) but I thought he first saw Luisa because she was the nanny for scary nympho's kid, and scary nympho was the fare he was dropping off at her house.

In any case, it was a surprise to me that Luisa was the daughter of the Butlers' housekeeper (what is her name anyway? Esmeralda? I can never make it out). You would have thought we'd have seen her around the house before, unless she was raised by relatives in Queens while her mom mothered the odious Butlers and their kin.

No, the first time he met Luisa was definitely when he dropped off Bruce. The second time he saw her was when he was at scary nympho's house. She brought scary nympho's kid with her to visit with her mother at the Butlers, and the second time she was watching the kid at scary nympho's house. She answered the door and Cole said what are you doing here? And then Luisa asked Cole what are you doing here? And, awkward, slinks up the stairs to see scary nympho. The third time in me they met was at Scotty's boat and then he drove her to work at The End.

Even though we never saw her at the Butlers, Margaret was obviously very close to her, so I bet she did spend a lot of time there as a child. There was a whole crowd of people in Queens, so visiting her family didn't necessarily mean visiting her mother--perhaps an aunt. But, yeah, she seems to work everywhere so maybe she grew up in both places, too.

Edited December 16, 2015 by JenE4

[Former Nun]

I don't think I care enough to go back and re-watch (plus, predatory nympho botoxed bored wifey/detached mom was so repellent I don't ever want to see her again)

 

 

I'm still impressed that actress allowed herself to be seen like that.  Was she desperate?  Was she strung out?  Was she CGI'd?

[Ellaria]

Do we know why the actual charges are? Murder requires intent, an accident would be manslaughter I think. Does NY have the death penalty?

 

I just looked up a recap of the S2 episode. It states that Noah was charged with "obstruction of justice, leaving the scene of an accident and vehicular homicide." In S1 Noah makes some comment to Det Jeffries about thinking that "the incident" was an accident. Jeffries responds with a comment about trying to find if someone had motive to murder the victim (Scotty).

 

The incident is being treated as vehicular homicide. Why? Probably because someone thought it would be an interesting addition to the plot. We've seen very little of the trial so it is difficult to decide what evidence the prosecution has to bring these charges against Noah. At this point, we have to just hand-wave the silliness of it away. 

[Palomar]

It seems like a lot of contradictions. After desperately wanting to leave Montauk, she now decides that she belongs there despite having Noah, a swanky apartment, a baby and four step children in NYC. And she made this decision overnight. And how does this decision square up with the Alison that we saw in the future timeline in S1? She seemed very committed to her NYC lifestyle at that point. Also, if Alison and Cole are running the new Lobster Roll together, why was their reunion in the court house (at Noah's arraignment) so awkward...as if they hadn't seen in each other in quite awhile. Maybe more information is coming in the next episode.

 

 

So many good points here.

 

All these life changing discussions she doesn't have with Noah....all because he didn't have time to talk one morning. The reunion at the courthouse definitely made it seem Allison and Cole hadn't seen each other in years. Maybe Season 2 was not written yet and we are not supposed to remember that. I also can't imagine them suddenly resolving all their issues enough to get married in such a short amount of time (unless it was a testifying ploy as others have brought up).

 

I also thought all Allison wanted was another baby. So she decides to immediately go to medical school right after the birth which won't leave much time for the baby and then when she quits school lets the nanny take care of her while she is wandering the streets trying to find herself. I could understand if becoming a Doctor was really her dream (definitely don't remember hearing that before) but she is figuring it out as she goes along. 

Edited December 16, 2015 by Palomar

[Anne Elk]

So many good points here.

 

All these life changing discussions she doesn't have with Noah....all because he didn't have time to talk one morning. The reunion at the courthouse definitely made it seem Allison and Cole hadn't seen each other in years. Maybe Season 2 was not written yet and we are not supposed to remember that. I also can't imagine them suddenly resolving all their issues enough to get married in such a short amount of time (unless it was a testifying ploy as others have brought up).

 

I also thought all Allison wanted was another baby. So she decides to immediately go to medical school right after the birth which won't leave much time for the baby and then when she quits school lets the nanny take care of her while she is wandering the streets trying to find herself. I could understand if becoming a Doctor was really her dream (definitely don't remember hearing that before) but she is figuring it out as she goes along. 

I keep wondering how many of these plot points are like the disappeared Lockhart children from the pilot episode, who I think were most likely written out so the writers could bring in the Lockhart curse storyline. In a normal TV program it would be no big deal to make minor changes like that as the story goes along. But in a show like this, it doesn't work at all. The differences in points of view are supposed to be important to the show; if the writers are playing fast and loose with the facts also, then the whole thing just descends into goobledygook. They might as well tell us next week that Cole and Alison are con artists who have been scamming Noah and Helen for their money, and they were never divorced, and their kid never existed. Or that they're aliens from Jupiter. I'm okay with the differing points of view, but I'm not okay with things being hidden from the audience that the characters would have to know about, just to make for a more dramatic reveal later on.

 

So maybe Alison and Noah were pretending to be happily married and suppressing all this conflict, but it does seem like a bit of a cheat.

[Pallas]

It seems like a lot of contradictions. After desperately wanting to leave Montauk, she now decides that she belongs there despite having Noah, a swanky apartment, a baby and four step children in NYC.

 

Alison is presented as contradictory, from all viewpoints. including her own. She's spent much of her life fending off more assertive personalities: her mother, her mother-in-law, perhaps her grandmother, the combined force of the Lockhart clan, and now Noah, it seems. She'd come to see Montauk as the place where she was both suborned and abandoned. So she left it, instead.  

 

But I don't see her as being enchanted with the apartment, or high-end New York life, or her boyfriend's four children. None of them are "hers." Montauk was, and now without the attachments or associations that depressed her. No ranch, no clan, no Cherry, no drug-running, no Oscar, no dying marriage in a dying grandmother's house, no more no-child. And it's not unusual to identify with a place where you lived all your life, or to be grounded by the sea. Alison may feel that Montauk is the only presence in her life that never asked anything of her, and could never go anywhere else.

[heatherchandler]

They might as well tell us next week that Cole and Alison are con artists who have been scamming Noah and Helen for their money, and they were never divorced, and their kid never existed.

Oh man that would actually be awesome! I would like that storyline. What a twist that would be.

[evilmindatwork]

 

I also thought all Allison wanted was another baby. So she decides to immediately go to medical school right after the birth which won't leave much time for the baby and then when she quits school lets the nanny take care of her while she is wandering the streets trying to find herself. I could understand if becoming a Doctor was really her dream (definitely don't remember hearing that before) but she is figuring it out as she goes along. 

I definitely remember Alison telling Noah that she wanted to be a doctor but didn't have money to go to medical school (in the first season). But I think it was only brought up once and never again since. I don't remember which episode though-- I think it was the first episode her mother appears in