All Episodes Talk: Celebrating Diversity

[auntjess]

On an earlier show, they said Elena moved to a group home when her parents moved, and she couldn't adjust to the new house.
I know how she acts out, but growing up with a mother, who apparently took years to finally accept her, must have hurt so much.

I'm more inclined to overlook some of her behavior, than that of Sean.

[Bastet]

Quote

On an earlier show, they said Elena moved to a group home when her parents moved, and she couldn't adjust to the new house.

I thought she was already living in the group home when her parents moved.  My recollection is that what changed after her parents' move to a new home was Elena stopped visiting regularly on the weekends, because she wasn't comfortable in the new house.

[auntjess]

Maybe, I just remember that she didn't like the new house.
On some things, she seems more advanced, in that she likes to cook, and swim.

[cooksdelight]

Last night's episode, Elena still bugs me. Her mother, however, I really feel sorry for. And I didn't last season. Elena may have some type of mental disorder or chemical imbalance that needs to be addressed by her parents.

[Trampolina]

Angel was so sweet about the crush Christina had on her dance teacher. Her confusion about why they were getting along cracked me up. It seemed like she might have wanted a little drama and passion.

I worked at a restaurant years ago where a 34 year old woman with DS washed dishes. She had a hardcore crush on one if the cooks but also had a boyfriend. The difference was that the dishwasher was not nearly as articulate as Christina and the cook was an ass. Eventually her parents got involved and it wasn't pretty.

I enjoyed seeing Sean at his Home Depot job. He seemed to really enjoy it and was also helpful to people in the parking lot. I also liked hearing Rachel's mom's story about the food stealing at work. That must have been hard on everybody involved. It would suck to confront somebody so sweet.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Drogo
Quote formatting.

[auntjess]

I do think Elena needs to be reevaluated by a qualified doctor.
She seems different from the others, in that her speech and thought processes seem better than most of the others, as well as things she's learned like cooking and swimming.
I'd feel sorrier for her mother, if she hadn't spent the first 20 years of Elena's life feeling sorry for herself.  I can't remember what Elena's father seemed  

And I can't imagine the circumstances in which Sean could live on his own, and I really don't want to see Steven stuck with him.
He's about the least responsible one, at least from what we've seen.  I can see him getting in serious trouble with a girl, who was naive enough to come to his home.

[sunsheyen]

I totally agree about not wanting Sean's parents to saddle Steven with him. I think they know that this is a bad idea and just want to pass the buck. If anything, Sean would be a candidate for group living, definitely not alone OR with a disabled roommate. He just doesn't seem to have the responsibility it takes to be safe in a home alone. Besides, he's too combative to be able to set rules and compromise with a roommate. 

Elena does seem far more advanced in many ways but I think she could really benefit from a therapist. She has some decent cognitive and reasoning skills, time to stop with the attention seeking behaviors, and work on herself. I think she is very capable of this.

It was nice to see Laurie supporting Hiromi.

Quote of the week: "I look so cute. Like a little diva." -John. He so did not want to go on that boys trip to Nascar. He definitely prefers hanging with the girls.

[auntjess]

I can see John wanting to go to Trinidad, both for the music and the culture.  I think the trip was set as part of the push Megan thrust of the show now.
When Kris first told her they were going to Trinidad, I assumed the one in Colorado.
You'd think that people would be evaluated for living alone, before being given vouchers.
And I'm not kidding about him having problem with date rape, because he seems to have no impulse control.

[Brooklynista]

27 minutes ago, sunsheyen said:

I totally agree about not wanting Sean's parents to saddle Steven with him. I think they know that this is a bad idea and just want to pass the buck. If anything, Sean would be a candidate for group living, definitely not alone OR with a disabled roommate. He just doesn't seem to have the responsibility it takes to be safe in a home alone. Besides, he's too combative to be able to set rules and compromise with a roommate. 

Elena does seem far more advanced in many ways but I think she could really benefit from a therapist. She has some decent cognitive and reasoning skills, time to stop with the attention seeking behaviors, and work on herself. I think she is very capable of this.

It was nice to see Laurie supporting Hiromi.

Quote of the week: "I look so cute. Like a little diva." -John. He so did not want to go on that boys trip to Nascar. He definitely prefers hanging with the girls.

Yup...NTTAWWT. 

Elena does seem to be a bit higher functioning than the others.  She also seems hypersensitive and almost too in tune with her emotions.  I'm sure she is still dealing with the early rejection from her mother and the struggle with the disability.  It's as if she's in the same place as Steven.  High functioning but then there's this disability that blocks a fully independent life.

[woodscommaelle]

Something rubbed me the wrong way when Rachel's mom told the story of Rachel stealing at work when Elena's mom was telling about the pushing. I feel like those two situations are so vastly different from the each other. To me, Elena's behavior is just beyond awful. (Not blaming her at all. I really just don't understand it). But maybe Rachel's mom just wanted to be empathetic/sympathetic? 

[auntjess]

I think she was responding the perception that Rachel is always a "good" girl, and never gives any trouble, but really, all of the parents have faced problems.

 

[Christi]

Once again Megan's mom freaking her out about leaving the nest...What would you do if u had a seizure alone? 

So Megan's mom is the only one in the world that can help her? If she backed off, I think Megan would feel less like running away.  Just meet her 1/4 the way mom, come on.

Get a house with a mother in law studio..perfect first step...she can have monitors in there...also a Seizure Dog would be so great for Megan!

[auntjess]

Megan can't shop for groceries, couldn't figure the right amount of underwear to pack... She needs a lot more life skills.
Kris throws up "what if you have a seizure?," but she needs "you can't shop, have no idea how your "business" needs running, and I don't think she does laundry.

[cooksdelight]

Megan would be in big trouble on her own. Scary thoughts running through my head of her setting the kitchen on fire, or worse.

[Brooklynista]

19 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

Megan would be in big trouble on her own. Scary thoughts running through my head of her setting the kitchen on fire, or worse.

There seem to be way too many life skills that Megan cannot handle.  Could she travel alone to a job site? Who would help her with her banking since math isn't her strong suit?  She's just learning to make eggs, who will feed her?

I have an ex who manages an assisted adult facility.  He says for admission the clients have to be fairly self sufficient. What the managers do is offer minimal guidance for day to day tasks, but the adults are pretty independent. They maintain their own apartments, prepare their own meals, travel independently, hang out with friends.  I think Steven would thrive in a place like that, Megan isn't nearly ready. 

[gunderda]

On 8/14/2016 at 11:20 PM, Bastet said:

I thought she was already living in the group home when her parents moved.  My recollection is that what changed after her parents' move to a new home was Elena stopped visiting regularly on the weekends, because she wasn't comfortable in the new house.

Yes, she had lived in the group home way before her parents moved.

[Hey2all]

On 8/17/2016 at 6:51 PM, woodscommaelle said:

Something rubbed me the wrong way when Rachel's mom told the story of Rachel stealing at work when Elena's mom was telling about the pushing. I feel like those two situations are so vastly different from the each other. To me, Elena's behavior is just beyond awful. (Not blaming her at all. I really just don't understand it). But maybe Rachel's mom just wanted to be empathetic/sympathetic? 

I strongly believe that Rachel's mom was just being empathetic. From what I have observed personally and professionally in parents of special needs kids, is that they all are part of a "club" that they may not want to belong to, but most feel comfort in other parents. No child with the same disability as another will be exactly the same, but sharing ideas and stories gives them hope and solace. 

Until Elena pushed her mom, I had blamed some of her emotional issues on her mom's emotional issues. Now, I really think she needs evaluating.

I think Steven could help Sean learn skills and Sean can help Steven learn a whole new degree of patience.

[booboopbedoo]

On 17/08/2016 at 6:51 PM, woodscommaelle said:

Something rubbed me the wrong way when Rachel's mom told the story of Rachel stealing at work when Elena's mom was telling about the pushing. I feel like those two situations are so vastly different from the each other. To me, Elena's behavior is just beyond awful. (Not blaming her at all. I really just don't understand it). But maybe Rachel's mom just wanted to be empathetic/sympathetic? 

I agree- I felt one had nothing to do with the other. Rachel was embarrassed. 

[Cherrio]

This show is so different from last year.  All this producer driven nonsense.  I do not think that Stevens parents would ever agree to him living with Sean.

      Since I think its a totally producer driven fake set up, then Steven does not have to be around Sean for long. 

      I really think they should of had a new cast for this year.    Sean and his parents think they are celebs now. Don't think that will help him in a positive way.

       For instance I would hate for John to be given the impression he will be a famous artist because of this show. He is a sweet person and I would hate for him to have heartache because of manufactured drama.  At least they had a fake garage sale.

ETA:   I think the parents , with the exception of Sean's are doing the best they can.  

Edited August 24, 2016 by Cherrio

[auntjess]

5 hours ago, Cherrio said:

ETA:   I think the parents , with the exception of Sean's are doing the best they can.  

I don't know about Kris. 
She talked about Megan working hard on life skills.  Show us some examples.  Can she shop, cook, budget?
I don't want to hear "runs a company" bullshit.  Kris and the relative do that, and I can't imagine there's much business except people trying to be nice and help Megan out.
I don't think Megan understands what all it entails as far as orders and packing and mailing.
 

[Bastet]

Quote

This show is so different from last year.

Yeah, I was turned off by the first episode and the promos for the season, with all the stuff clearly done just for the show, and didn't watch another episode until last night's.  I think it's something I'll watch occasionally and keep up with via this thread, but that's it.  I hate reality TV (as opposed to documentary series).

I cannot stand Sean or his parents.  But at least we got a real moment when he turned into an anger ball because he was stressed out moving into the house, seeing how he acts and how his parents - and Steven and his parents - react to it.

I was surprised to find myself liking both Elena and her mom last night. 

[Cherrio]

53 minutes ago, auntjess said:

I don't know about Kris. 
She talked about Megan working hard on life skills.  Show us some examples.  Can she shop, cook, budget?
I don't want to hear "runs a company" bullshit.  Kris and the relative do that, and I can't imagine there's much business except people trying to be nice and help Megan out.
I don't think Megan understands what all it entails as far as orders and packing and mailing.
 

I do agree with  you, but I am going to assume that Megan may not be capable of even learning most of the skills needed.  I think Kris may be walking a line of trying to be positive and encouraging instead of telling her daughter the truth.   I can see where a parent can be torn in two with a D.S. child.  Megan to me seems to be more disabled than most of the others except Sean.

[cooksdelight]

Megan can never live on her own. She needs a roommate  who doesn't have DS, or someone to help care for her. She has no idea of how to run a business, her mother and aunt (or cousin, I can't remember) do all of that, Megan just comes up with the pretty art and puts her name on it. She doesn't have a checking account and I doubt she'd know how to handle one. Her boyfriend isn't the solution, either.

[absolutelyido]

10 hours ago, Cherrio said:

This show is so different from last year.  All this producer driven nonsense.  I do not think that Stevens parents would ever agree to him living with Sean.

      Since I think its a totally producer driven fake set up, then Steven does not have to be around Sean for long. 

      I really think they should of had a new cast for this year.    Sean and his parents think they are celebs now. Don't think that will help him in a positive way.

       For instance I would hate for John to be given the impression he will be a famous artist because of this show. He is a sweet person and I would hate for him to have heartache because of manufactured drama.  At least they had a fake garage sale.

ETA:   I think the parents , with the exception of Sean's are doing the best they can.  

When they decided to rent Sean & Steven's house as a short-term Airbnb rental it became very obvious that it was just a production-driven story line. Still, I was relieved to see that they were going to have an assisted living person living with them. I think Steven could handle living by himself, with some help, but there is no way Sean could and no way Steven can or should be left alone to be responsible for Sean.

[princelina]

I really enjoy this show, and I like all of the cast and their families (in varying degrees :)  but I see a lot of dishonesty, for lack of a better word, which I can't blame the parents and even the show for.  I was a special ed teacher and when I started back in the early 80's I worked at a special needs high school where the students spent part of their days on reading/math skills (as pertained to having a bank account, etc.), part of their day learning life skills like cooking and laundry, and those who were able spent part of the day in the community at a real job, like Sean's or Rachel's, with a job coach monitoring them, and earning a real paycheck.  In addition, they had sports teams, cheerleaders, dances, etc. with other special needs schools, so the kids could have a real, enjoyable high school experience with their actual peers.  One Monday morning everyone was full of gossip over how Ginger (who had DS) had gotten into a fight with a girl from another school who had tried to dance with her boyfriend at the sports banquet!

Fast forward a few years and I was teaching at a large high school with a "life skills" classroom.  Every hour when the regular students were switching classes, the life skills students would go stand in the hall, and the passing students would greet them in a friendly manner (Hey Sean!  How you doing, buddy?) and then go to class as the special needs kids filed back into their room.  They weren't on teams, and at school dances they hung out in a corner of the gym, supervised by a teacher's aide.

By the 2000's, "full inclusion" was en vogue, and now these kids were sitting there in literature and algebra classes with their own personal aide, and the teacher was to "modify" the work to their ability.  I tried to talk to parents of the kids with real intellectual disabilities about the advantages of the few special schools still open, which frankly would have gotten me in trouble with my superiors had I ever been reported, but the parents had all been conditioned to understand that it was their child's "right" to be with his "peers". Which is true, and I didn't push it too hard, but just because something is our right doesn't mean it's good for us.  And their fellow students weren't their peers at all.  Especially once each disabled kid was accompanied by his own personal adult!  Teenagers who are dating and driving and into competitive high school sports don't have time for more than basic friendliness for the students who can't keep up.  And when they're experimenting with booze and making out, they certainly don't want to include the kid who has an adult at his side in their lunchroom conversations!  In my graduate classes at university, the only teachers I met who honestly thought inclusion was great taught grade 2 or younger.  By about 3rd grade the typical students become big brother/motherish, and by middle school the gap is too wide.

So - what I find deceptive about what we are watching- if Megan was really a cheerleader, she was either in a school district that was small and kind enough to include her and not care, or she was more of a "mascot" cheerleader with special cheers to participate in.  I think both she and Sean might be so ignorant about how to do many life tasks because they spent too much time being "included" in algebra classes rather than learning to balance a checkbook.  And this might be why their parents seem to believe beyond all reason that they are capable of more than they are at this point.  And I'm not blaming the parents because its my opinion that they were deceived by the school districts being all in on the educational fad of the times.  Sean's "friend" Sean was probably part of a mentoring/partnering program, and Megan's cheerleader friend was a girl being kind.  I do think it was important to Kris that Megan be a cheerleader, diva and have a boyfriend.  But I gathered from the moms' conversation when Megan had her date that the moms have been on just as many dates as Megan and the boyfriend :)  So no, they're not getting married and moving to California together unless two whole families are willing to go!

Last week we saw Megan receive a note on 3 pages of the tiniest notebook paper money can buy, which she wanted her mother to read because it was so long, but this week we are to believe that she herself scoured the internet to find herself a job interview.  I noticed that during Sean and Steven's baseball game that the camera focused solely on the two of them, so that we wouldn't notice that the other members of the team also had disabilities.  John is not going to be hired for any show which is not a fundraiser for people with disabilities, and he didn't even do that well.  And of course the whole Sean/Steven living together thing is set up for the show, but at least that to me is interesting to see how they do, and may be a learning experience for them and their parents!  Speaking of which I LOLd at Elena having her own place and eating all the food her mom had provided for the week by Wednesday so she went begging from the neighbors :)  I guess a lesson was learned there too since she's in a group home now.

Sorry for the rant but this has been a big issue for me for years because I really believe that what is being done to these kids and their families in the name of inclusion is unjust, unkind, unfair and unhelpful.  And the only way to counter it is with honesty.  Every one of the young adults we see on this show could and should have a happy and productive life with supervised work and living situations.  But they do take time, so for example Sean should be on a waiting list for a group home, not wasting time under the fiction that he will live alone.  They should all be proudly telling us about their jobs, not just Sean and Rachel.

Sorry again- rant over :)

[auntjess]

Thank you, princelina, that explains a lot.

[fuzzylollipop]

Princelina your post was very interesting to read. Aren't Sean and Megan the youngest? Now it's making me wonder if being the youngest is why they both seem to lack the least life skills in the group, because they were probably exclusively in an inclusive school setting their entire lives. I used to think that it was because they were only childs and maybe a little more pampered by their parents as a result. 

This season is definitely different, but I am still enjoying it. I really loved watching Steven in the last episode, he seems so smart and sweet. It was so kind of him to give Sean the better room. I did not know mosaic down syndrome even existed until this show and it is so interesting to see the difference on screen. I agree with whoever mentioned it above, but I was relieved to see they would have assistance living together, it is not fair to poor Steven to have to look after Sean, who seems like quite a handful. I also feel for Elena, her upbringing really messed her up and she seems so self aware about it. 

[Nowhere]

The product placement is irritating. They're using these people for advertising. I'm starting to think that's all this show is really about after seeing yet another advertisement for Good Earth popcorn when Elena poured it on a bowl for everyone. Then to top it off, while Sean was looking for houses for himself on the Internet, his mother comes in asking something like, "Did you find Airbnb.com?" Of course both parents sit beside Sean and all three are wearing different shades of blue, while looking at a house with blue furniture on Airbnb. The whole thing is so fake.

[Zanne]

2 hours ago, princelina said:

By about 3rd grade the typical students become big brother/motherish, and by middle school the gap is too wide.

I'm a middle school SpEd teacher, and I agree with a lot of what you say. I've got students who are low functioning, but are able to do things on their own, such as carry their backpacks or walk to their next class. However, it's the General Education students that will take their backpacks to carry for them or take their hands to walk them to class, which frustrates me to no end. It's almost like the inclusion portion is making the other students go out of their way to be helpful, but in ways that inhibit the independence of these students.  

I've also seen the parents whose students were put into inclusive settings in elementary school come up to the middle school expecting things to be exactly the same, but elementary and middle school are two entirely different worlds. The work is exponentially more difficult, there is a lot more of it, and there are twice as many kids in each class. So when their student is placed in the SpEd class they should be in (and was agreed upon at the transition meeting), the parents say it's too low (even if the child is not doing particularly well in this "low" class), and insist that their child was doing what the other kids were doing in elementary school so he should be doing that here. So when pushed up into the more General Education classes, the parents say the work is too hard, and even with a lot of support the student is failing. This leads to a lot of stress for the student and the parent lays all blame on the school even though we're bending over backwards with accommodations to make this child successful in this placement. The parents refuse to realize that maybe the work is beyond what their child can achieve successfully at this point.

It's a fine line. You want to push where you can, but it does reach a point where it's actually hurting the student more than helping. But some parents seem to want their child to be in those General Education classes with the "normal" kids more than they want their child to be successful and happy.

[cooksdelight]

This is a company near where I live that hires all of the people in the area with disabilities. It's too bad there's not something like this for these kids.

http://industrialopportunities.com

[Stillhoping]

Well I still love this show and mostly all the "cast"! I love Kris and I really respect what she tries to do for Megan. Talking so nice about the absent dad was just another thing I love about her.

I think John is sweet and I like his new friend. I hope the hip hop and rap artists in the area will let him open up at small gigs and fairs and such.   

I really.like Steven...I wish his parents were more active in helping him connect with others more like him..ie high functioning mosaic DS. I agree he should not be saddled with Sean. I think it is really hard for Steven.  He is different from both typical and DS people. His parents and counselors need to get him involved w the smaller mosaic community. Much the way little people often meet their mate at a convention (learned from reality tv haha)

While I despise most sob stories on reality tv and I hate fashion models like the nastygirl with Vitaligo on ANTM I do understand why these parents are willing to try to make their dreams come true. Oh and I adore sweet Rachel and hope to see more of her.  

Edited August 25, 2016 by Stillhoping

[woodscommaelle]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

 

No spoilers/I just got 'click-happy' and can't figure out how to undo it.

Elena's emotions and feelings are so intense and extreme.  If she's sad, she's sad as shit.  If she's happy, it's the best day ever. 

I loved Sean's reaction to Steven saying something like 'what am I? Cinderella?'  That joke really made him laugh, which in turn made me laugh.  The last few minutes of the show had me smiling from ear to ear.  Fake or not, it was just a beautiful scene between the two boys.  And when Sean told Steven 'he rocked?'  Heart. Melt.

I really can't with John Tucker's hip hop/rap stuff.  It's not second-hand embarrassment bc I don't think he feels that way.  I think he's really proud of himself, and I guess, good for you, John Tucker??  I just don't like it. At all.

[Cherrio]

Speaking of the scene where Sean demands the bedroom Steven wanted. that would of been the proper time for Sean's parents to make him compromise. Instead the mother just stood in the room as if laying claim for her son.

 At least its a fake set up and Steven won't really have to live with Sean.

I don't see Sean able to live in a group home unless he learns basic skills and manners.

[auntjess]

The more I see of Kris, the less I like her.  I think she raised Megan to be her friend, and fed her the big dreams because she saw herself as a big part of them.
But the longer she delays telling Megan some home truths, the harder they will be to hear.

I don't understand if Hiromi took Elena to a doctor, or somehow got meds prescribed with Elena seeing the doctor.
Don't see how that could be, but Hiromi didn't mention the doctor telling Elena to take the pills, more like she was telling her.
I was hoping that she'd get a thorough evaluation, seeing if she does, in fact, have DS.  It doesn't sound like that happened.
Sean's parents seem awfully eager to be rid of him, for which I can't blame them, except I think they allowed him to behave badly.
I'm really glad to see he'll have someone watching him.  Where did that "I want (or was it) need to get married?" come from.  Sex is my guess.

[Hey2all]

Sean and Steven are too funny with their bean burritos. I'm glad they're friends, but Steven shouldn't have to look after sean.

I think Elena's mom was living in the dark and it's refreshing to see her opening up. At the very least, this show is getting Elena support.

When I subbed in special ed. classes, I actually witnessed wonderful aides that would modify work and peers helping. Why is this such a bad thing? Yes, we want people to live independently, but care and compassion should never be discouraged. No one's going to get a gold star at the end of their lives for not accepting help from others.

[Normades]

I think Megan's mother needs to take an approach more like Kristina's parents do.  I know "Don't Limit Me" has become their mantra, but we all have limitations.  The earlier example of being a professional dancer is a good one.  I noticed how Kristina wanted to be on Dancing with the Stars and take part in a large competition.  They deftly steered her to something more attainable and gave her both an outlet for her desires (unfortunately not Rumen!!) and accountability for participating.  I don't believe Megan will ever be able to live alone, but she could be given compromises.  

I like Sean and I think he gets a bad rap sometimes.  Being an only and disabled child probably made it hard for his parents to stay objective and structured.  I had a DS sibling and he does things that remind me of her.  When he was in the car eating the goldfish, that was my sister to a tee!  My sister was much lower functioning than these kids are.  I remember my mother saying it was a blessing that she was not aware of her disability.  When we encountered stares and cruelty, my sis wondered what the problem was with those other people.  I met lots of young men like Sean.  It's so difficult for them because they have all of those needs, desires and hormones running though them and can't quite understand or control them.  Many of them were scary to me when I was a teen, but I came to realize what huge challenges these guys face.  Plus, unlike my sister, Sean and the rest of the kids are fully aware of their differences.  They really have it hard in ways most of us will never understand.  I think the show is good because it gives people a closer look at the difficulties, but don't make the mistake of simplifying a very complex situation.

[princelina]

On August 26, 2016 at 0:01 AM, Hey2all said:

Sean and Steven are too funny with their bean burritos. I'm glad they're friends, but Steven shouldn't have to look after sean.

I think Elena's mom was living in the dark and it's refreshing to see her opening up. At the very least, this show is getting Elena support.

When I subbed in special ed. classes, I actually witnessed wonderful aides that would modify work and peers helping. Why is this such a bad thing? Yes, we want people to live independently, but care and compassion should never be discouraged. No one's going to get a gold star at the end of their lives for not accepting help from others.

I wouldn't use the term "bad thing " but the reason I am against it is because these kids should be doing their own work, which is things like learning about grocery shopping and handling money etc. rather than "modified " history, algebra, etc.  Despite what Megan would have us believe, none of them are going to college and they need to learn life and job skills, not academics.  And their actual peers are not the regular kids but the other kids with disabilities.  Just like Sean's peers are the main cast from this show.  I would not call the Sean who took him to Vegas a "peer".

ETA:. I too enjoyed watching them "share their interest" in the bean burritos :)

Edited August 29, 2016 by princelina

[Zanne]

On 8/25/2016 at 9:01 PM, Hey2all said:

When I subbed in special ed. classes, I actually witnessed wonderful aides that would modify work and peers helping. Why is this such a bad thing? Yes, we want people to live independently, but care and compassion should never be discouraged. No one's going to get a gold star at the end of their lives for not accepting help from others.

1 hour ago, princelina said:

I wouldn't use the term "bad thing " but the reason I am against it is because these kids should be doing their own work, which is things like learning about grocery shopping and handling money etc. rather than "modified " history, algebra, etc.  Despite what Megan would have us believe, none of them are going to college and they need to learn life and job skills, not academics.

When it comes down to it, being able to solve a multi-step equation with variables will not help these particular students become independent. I'm in a district where core curriculum is pushed unless the students are in a functional class. I've watched students struggle to get concepts for years and by this I mean I've had students who still can't do basic math skills, even with the use of a calculator, but the parents want the student to be learning as close to the core curriculum as they can get. Great. I'll do that, adapt and modify the curriculum to their level, and do what I need to do. But can these students wash their own hair? No. Can they do their own laundry? No. Make a simple meal, even a sandwich? No. Go into a store by themselves and buy a candy bar? No. There reaches a point, particularly as students get older, where life skills should take precedence over standards. Surprisingly, it seems that a lot - and I mean A LOT - of parents are leaving life skills entirely to the classroom. Things like time and money that could be worked on at home are ignored by many parents and also have to be fit into the curriculum where it can. That doesn't help with the laundry, hygiene, or food prep, but it's frustrating as a teacher to see how little some parents are preparing their children for actual life.

Note that I am not talking about every single student with special needs. There are differences between students with special needs just as there out in the general population. But if they've reached a certain point and they still can't add/subtract (even with tools to help) consistently, life skills should be taking center stage. And it must be taken into account how long these life skills will take to teach and to learn. Even Rachel's mom said that teaching Rachel to do laundry was really hard and it probably took a long time. This is why it shouldn't wait until the child is ready to move out, like Meghan wants to, because it can take a long time to cement those skills into place.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Zanne

[Ina123]

Have any of you seen the documentaries "Educating Peter" and "Graduating Peter"? You should see them. They are a perfect representation of a family who just refuses to see that their DS child needs to be in a more "life-learning" environment rather than mainstreamed into regular classrooms. The mother is relentless in keeping her son mainstreamed, (it's the law) even though everyone can see he is not high functioning enough. I think she did a real disservice to him when he could have been learning life skills instead of struggling and getting nowhere with higher math.

The kids on Born This Way are incredibly high functioning compared to Peter. Watch these two docs and see the other side, a Downs child who clearly is in the wrong place. I don't care how caring and kind the regular students were with him, he was a pain in the ass in their classrooms. It shows the "wrong" side of mainstreaming. Satisfying a mother's heartache because the law says so at the expense of the other students.

I have no doubt the kids on the show could mainstream easier, but, clearly Peter is not a good example.

I love watching these kids on the show succeed at small things. They have parents who, despite "Don't Limit Me" have faced the fact that their child DOES have limits and have found alternatives where their child can thrive. I love all the parents.

[auntjess]

I haven't seen these, but will watch if I see them.
While I can feel sorry for her, I can't love Kris.

[Brooklynista]

Educating and Graduating Peter are truly eye-opening.  I felt for his mother wanting her son to be included in regular activities but she seemed blinded by what Peter could honestly accomplish.  She wanted him to have a mainstream job, but at 18yrs old he could barely tie his shoes and was nearly non-verbal.

I'm torn on where I stand with Megan's mother.  It must be incredibly hard for a single parent to take the necessary time and repetition to teach Megan basic skills. Megan has really suffered by not learning the basics and by not being gently told what she is honestly capable of. Things like making the bed, or making an easy meal should have been something instilled in her.

John's mother is honest with him.  This rap thing? Yeah, no.  You're almost 30yrs old.  Time for a job. She's pretty no  nonsense w him. Megan's mom wants a girlfriend and a buddy. Perhaps it's because she had Megan so young?  But she does seem to have "limited" Megan.

[Normades]

I've seen the mainstreaming with my own children having peers in their classes, but I had no idea that this was such an issue.  I assumed that the children in the mainstream programs were evaluated to see that they could keep up at least to a degree.  When my sister was growing up there was no mainstreaming and DS kids were institutionalized.  My parents went to great lengths to find help and education for her.  People didn't see DS kids in their communities and we got lots of stares, hate and worse when we went into public.  I think mainstreaming has helped to educate society that DS exists and they are people, too, but from what I'm reading here, there are still so many challenges.    I don't think we should assume that because an individual has not grasped a particular skill, it hasn't been taught and worked on. One thing I know from my own experience is that some of these skills may never be grasped.  Even something as basic as making a bed or cooking eggs.  What Kristina's dad said was exactly right, each skill has its own level for each person.

There are so many avenues open to these young people that simply weren't there not too long ago.  They can find their own dreams but within their capabilities.  And, isn't that something we all have to do?  

[Zanne]

Don't get me wrong. The opposite is also true, where a parent has underestimated their child because they happen to have special needs. These parents don't make their kids do homework and if you call them about misbehaviors in class, they'll be like, "Eh, what do you expect?" when you, as the teacher, know that they can do better. In the classroom you can push and push for them to learn more difficult things, but there's no support at home. The point is, it takes balance. You have to see where the most important needs are and do your best to meet those needs. In some cases, that's life skills over sitting in a math/English/science/history/whatever class that they just don't understand, no matter the adaptations/modifications. I would hope the parents' final goal is for their child to be able to successfully take care of themselves, even with some outside help. I've got a student who, while mom is pushing for harder work her child cannot do, would literally not be able to survive being lost for a few hours. Why? Because mom actively fights letting her do anything on her own, even going to the bathroom. It honestly scares me how unprepared that child is for life outside of school walls.

[Bastet]

I have really liked Rachel, and Cristina's parents, since the beginning, and that was on full display tonight when they shut Cristina's shit down.

I missed a little something with Angel's parents; his mom said she didn't give birth to him, but he's her baby -- is he adopted, or is she a stepmom?

Kris continues to impress me with how she talks to Megan about her father (who is so here for the cameras).

[Zanne]

13 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I have really liked Rachel, and Cristina's parents, since the beginning, and that was on full display tonight when they shut Cristina's shit down.

I loved that Christina's parents took the situation seriously and didn't just laugh about it and think it's cute. They were straightforward in addressing the issue with their daughter, realized they weren't reaching her at that moment, but knew they had to keep addressing it at a later point because the behavior was wrong. I love those parents! I also loved Rachel schooling Christina in how she should be treating her boyfriend. In this particular case, Rachel appeared so socially aware. She knew what Christina was doing was wrong, why it was wrong, and told Christina so.

I don't think Brandon is on the marriage/baby train with Megan. I don't think he's even considered buying a ticket for that train, yet. He just likes to hang out with Megan right now.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Zanne

[AllisonWonderland]

<3 <3 Mariano <3 <3 

[VioletNevermind]

Once again, I LOVE Christina's parents.  They are both shining examples of how to navigate the special needs of young people with Down Syndrome.  It's a pleasure to watch, honestly.  Mariano's totally serious face when talking with Christina about her jealousy and the way he sincerely thanked Rachel for bringing the issue to their attention . . . a thing of beauty in a world full of so many dummies who have no clue how to deal with their kids, much less adult children with special needs.  I have no doubt that Christina will learn how to process her jealousy in a healthy, appropriate way with her parents as her guides.

Rachel is absolutely adorable, as usual.  She makes me wish my workplace had a program that employs people with special needs.  We would totes be friends.

This is where my post gets a bit tough, mainly because I feel like I'm betraying one of my own.  Kris is a divorced woman and has raised her daughter largely on her own, just as I have.  Both of our husbands sailed away without a care when our daughters were infants, leaving us holding the bag (and everything else).  They're both unreliable and have vast histories of canceling plans and disappointing our daughters, leaving us to explain that Daddy didn't want to cancel (when, perhaps he did) and he was looking forward to seeing them again soon (when that might not be his first priority).  I got the impression that Kris was enjoying saying her carefully chosen comforting phrases ("Daddy probably enjoyed your time together," etc.).  It was as if she was ever-so-subtly feeding Megan's uncertainty about her father.  On one hand, I get it.  I fully admit to loathing my ex-husband, but I try as hard as I can to keep a lid on it for my daughter's sake.  It can be indescribably difficult to maintain a positive outward attitude toward someone who treated you like shit in your marriage in very serious ways and disrespects his daughter by canceling plans constantly.  Megan's father was clearly there to pick up his appearance fee and will almost certainly not be a stable, permanent figure in Megan's life.  Megan's actual, nuts-and-bolts parent is Kris all the way.  As much as I've disagreed with Kris's (unintentional?) limiting of Megan, she's completely committed to her in a way that her father never was.  We know how much of Kris's life and purpose are wrapped up in Megan.  While that is certainly admirable, and I'm sure I can't begin to imagine the sacrifices she's made, she needs to get serious about "launching" Megan into the world as much as she can.  I suspect that Kris has not been as aggressive as she could have been with Megan's life skills education because she doesn't know what she would do with herself without having Megan to care for.  On one hand, I find that incredibly selfish, but on the other hand, I have the luxury of knowing that my daughter will be able to handle 100% of her own needs someday, unlike Megan.

Lots of food for thought for me tonight.

Edited August 31, 2016 by SuzyLee

[Cinnamini11]

4 hours ago, Bastet said:

I missed a little something with Angel's parents; his mom said she didn't give birth to him, but he's her baby -- is he adopted, or is she a stepmom?

The caption said they were his grandparents. Maybe they raised him? Not sure if they mentioned his biological mom/dad at all.

[Brooklynista]

Is Angel going to have to re-propose every time Christina gets upset with him?

[Eureka]

13 hours ago, Zanne said:

I loved that Christina's parents took the situation seriously and didn't just laugh about it and think it's cute. They were straightforward in addressing the issue with their daughter, realized they weren't reaching her at that moment, but knew they had to keep addressing it at a later point because the behavior was wrong. I love those parents! I also loved Rachel schooling Christina in how she should be treating her boyfriend. In this particular case, Rachel appeared so socially aware. She knew what Christina was doing was wrong, why it was wrong, and told Christina so.

I don't think Brandon is on the marriage/baby train with Megan. I don't think he's even considered buying a ticket for that train, yet. He just likes to hang out with Megan right now.

Hi all, I just signed up here but am a very long time lurker/reader (several shows; right now mainly this one, Outlander and Orphan Black) back from the TWOP days. Wanted to comment on Cristina's parents. They are great, and this article tells me everything I need to know about why. Her dad has long since been in the school and special Ed community.

https://www.harborrc.org/news/articles/governor-appoints-hrc-parent-and-board-member

And unrelated, but kind of not - you can tell from their interactions that the parents still have that "spark." Definitely a good role model for a healthy relationship.

Don't know how much I'll end up posting...I kind of liked just reading, but you never know.