All Episodes Talk: Celebrating Diversity

[Ina123]

6 hours ago, camom said:

Sean's parents do in fact think his "ladies man" persona is cute as a button.  He has rarely been given boundaries.   

As the parent of someone with DS, my main goal was to teach my daughter appropriate behavior so that she would be accepted in society.  I want people to look forward to being around her, not dread it.  That doesn't mean that she always behaves the way I would like, but my years of effort definitely paid off.  It's really almost too late for Sean.  It takes people with DS longer to learn, and that includes learning behaviors.  And once they learn them it's hard to get them to "unlearn" them.  His flirting behavior is pretty entrenched, so it would take quite a bit of concentrated effort on the part of him and those around him to change it.

I applaud you for working on acceptable behavior.

I could enjoy being around all of them except Sean and Meghan. You are absolutely correct. Sean's parents seem to think his "ladies man" behavior is cute. It isn't. Meghan seems to have been over pumped up with self esteem and is much too aggressive about everything.

Clearly, Sean has been taught and is able to learn other things. This one hasn't been enforced but, unfortunately, encouraged by their laughter.

That said, I appreciate the daily struggles of all these parents.

My brother-in-law's brother is DS so I have some familiarity with the behavior. One thing I do know is that they are just naturally affectionate. The first time I met him he was 22 and before being introduced he was all over me with a big bear hug.

[ClareWalks]

Sean also refers frequently to "bros," wanting bro talk, bro time, etc. He has clearly clung to some awful role models for proper grown-man behavior. Maybe his folks should have been monitoring his "Jersey Shore" watching a bit.

[booboopbedoo]

I find watching him uncomfortable at times

[Former Nun]

18 hours ago, Ina123 said:

Clearly, Sean has been taught and is able to learn other things. This one hasn't been enforced but, unfortunately, encouraged by their laughter.

Sometimes you just have to give up on some things.   Also, these people are on television and may have been discouraged from too much "correction."

[Brooklynista]

5 hours ago, Former Nun said:

Sometimes you just have to give up on some things.   Also, these people are on television and may have been discouraged from too much "correction."

I dont know if his ladies man routine is the thing that should have been given up on. When I was growing up there was a mentally impaired young man on the block named Mike. He was always very affectionate and would chase the girls and give us bear hugs.  It was awkward when we were young, as we got older it was downright uncomfortable. He got bigger and the hugs became stronger and more sexual. He would damn near hump your leg if i can be blunt.  We got older and learned how to brush him off.

New people to the neighborhood didn't know him and were often scared. My new husband once saw Mike coming in hot for one of his hump hugs and hubby was ready to pounce.  All he saw was a big guy charging at me. There was quite the kerfuffle over it and I'm sure that wasn't the first time Michael had alarmed someone. He's still on the block and he's still at it. It's not cute.

Sean's parents are doing him no favors by laughing this one off. They won't be with him all of the time to explain away his behavior with a hand wave and a chuckle. 

[FawnLeibowitz]

Quote

When Sean told the woman in the office that she was cute, his parents should have immediately told him that he was being inappropriate.  Some day he is going to find himself in a heap of trouble.

My daughter has a DS boy in her grade. He's a nice kid and his parents are the exact opposite of Sean's. This boy's sister is on my daughter's sports team and one day the parents marched him up to us at a practice and said "Joey (not his real name) has something to say to you". Joey gave my daughter a very nice apology that he had called her "sweetie pie" earlier that day. My daughter didn't even think twice about it and honestly, I didn't care that he said it either, but his parents were clearly trying to nip that behaviour in the bud so that he doesn't become "a Sean".

[Normades]

The Sean issue really has me torn.  My sister was DS and there are things about Sean that totally remind me of her.  Last season when he had the goldfish crackers, that was exactly something she would have done.  Sometimes people think those with DS are not so smart and then they turn around and outsmart  you all over the place!  We used to get such a kick out of some of the things she could come up with.  I spent lots of time around individuals with DS and there were times that the young men (and sometimes young women) made me feel very uncomfortable.  It's a hard situation.  These are men with sexual desires yet they don't know how to react appropriately (within the norm of typical behavior) or how to vent off their frustration.  I do agree that Sean's parents should try to curtail some of his invasive behaviors, but don't be so sure that even constant correction would change it so much.  He may be able to learn some things, but not others.  My sister had outbursts all her life and believe me, she was chastised for this behavior, even at times with corporal punishment, which I find horrific but that is another story.  Sometimes I think the show is not such a good thing because people think things are more easily remedied than they really are.  Raising a DS child is both difficult and rewarding.  I think they all have good and bad points like all of us.  I just hate to see negativity leveled at Sean or any of these kids. 

[ClareWalks]

12 minutes ago, Normades said:

Raising a DS child is both difficult and rewarding.  I think they all have good and bad points like all of us.  I just hate to see negativity leveled at Sean or any of these kids. 

I agree that Sean's parents may have tried correcting his behavior and had no luck, but I think most of us object more to the amusement that his parents display in response to his antics than to his antics themselves. Yeah, it might be a futile effort to try to stop Sean, but do they have to be so tickled by it?

[gunderda]

coping mechanism maybe? 

and maybe they reprimand him later. we don't know so i don't think we should judge. i'm sure to them its easier to laugh about it in public (and on film) 

[auntjess]

20 minutes ago, gunderda said:

and maybe they reprimand him later. we don't know so i don't think we should judge. i'm sure to them its easier to laugh about it in public (and on film) 

Once you laugh at the behavior, you're validating it.  You can't do that.
They should at least have one of those "wait 'til I get you home" looks, that I think most of us learned meant "cool it."

[gunderda]

I just think it's common on reality shows, especially ones that deal with families, parents don't like to reprimand while being filmed.  They are probably scared of being judged by doing that.  So instead they tend to laugh it off... 

[Normades]

I agree that laughing off bad behavior does not help Sean, but the criticism should be directed at the parents and not him.  I can see the laughing as being a coping mechanism as suggested above or they find Sean cute and are amused by him.  They like and enjoy their son.  I think sometimes parents feel that there is so much stacked against the kid, why not indulge behaviors.  It was cute when he was say 5 or 6, but they didn’t think it through to when Sean entered manhood.  Now the behavior is cemented.  How can you blame Sean?  He is still doing the same thing that got/gets him laughter and attention, but now not everyone is laughing.  It’s a complex situation because I can see how parents can fall into it.  It would have been better if they tried to correct Sean, but we will never know if that would have even been successful because it’s not just the attention that drives him, it’s his hormones, too.  It must be so frustrating and confusing for these guys.  I feel a lot of empathy for them.

[camom]

Quote

maybe they reprimand him later. we don't know so i don't think we should judge.

Believe me, they don't.  I know a few other men with DS who fancy themselves ladies men, but their parents at least attempt to teach them what is appropriate and what is not, but Sean's parents don't, at least where this is concerned.  (And I won't hesitate to tell those men to "back off" -- in a nice way of course.)

[kassa]

On 5/24/2017 at 10:42 PM, Former Nun said:

Sean has probably been told that HUNDREDS of times!   Additionally, a DS person might be corrected "immediately," and too often the "object of affection" will say, "Oh, that's okay."  "Don't worry about it."  "I think you're cute too."  It's a lose-lose situation.

Thank you for your perspective on these things.  As someone who would naturally respond with that same "Oh, that's okay," etc. , that definitely resonated with me.  I'm not sure what the proper response would be.  I guess the dynamic behind it is "this person in this situation is harmless and likely doesn't know it's inappropriate and I don't feel threatened and certainly don't want the parent stressing about it because it really is no big deal."  Yet I can see how that reaction would undermine parents/caregivers  trying to set boundaries.  

But I don't know what kind of reaction would be appropriate/helpful to a random "You're beautiful" from someone with an intellectual disability. 

[gunderda]

1 hour ago, camom said:

Believe me, they don't.  I know a few other men with DS who fancy themselves ladies men, but their parents at least attempt to teach them what is appropriate and what is not, but Sean's parents don't, at least where this is concerned.  (And I won't hesitate to tell those men to "back off" -- in a nice way of course.)

Do you know them personally? Cause if not, then I don't think you can make such a statement.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, gunderda said:

I just think it's common on reality shows, especially ones that deal with families, parents don't like to reprimand while being filmed.  They are probably scared of being judged by doing that.  So instead they tend to laugh it off... 

They don't only laugh in the moment, they laugh when talking about it in sit-down interviews.  If, during those times, they acknowledged it as a problem they're working on, unfortunately without much success, I'd feel quite different about their culpability.  Instead, we've had one "I need to teach Sean about boundaries" comment (from the father) and the rest has been a bunch of "Oh, Sean that little scamp"-type laughing.  They think it's cute, if the show's presentation is accurate, and based on the comments of camom (who knows some of these people), I'm guessing it is.  It is unequivocally not cute, and they have harmed and are continuing to harm their son and the women he comes into contact with by behaving as if it is. 

[Normades]

15 minutes ago, Bastet said:

They don't only laugh in the moment, they laugh when talking about it in sit-down interviews.  If, during those times, they acknowledged it as a problem they're working on, unfortunately without much success, I'd feel quite different about their culpability.  Instead, we've had one "I need to teach Sean about boundaries" comment (from the father) and the rest has been a bunch of "Oh, Sean that little scamp"-type laughing.  They think it's cute, if the show's presentation is accurate, and based on the comments of camom (who knows some of these people), I'm guessing it is.  It is unequivocally not cute, and they have harmed and are continuing to harm their son and the women he comes into contact with by behaving as if it is. 

I agree it would be a good thing if they would work on it with them.  I still think Sean should not be held responsible for this and I wanted to make it clear to those without experience around people with DS, it may not make a difference.  There seemed to be those who thought if it were addressed he would certainly learn.  They may be right, but I think it's likely that it will not change things too much.  Another of the many issues that face parents/family of DS individuals is that they tend to think of them as a child.  His parents may not have really noticed that although they see Sean as a child, a woman who potentially feels uncomfortable with his advances feels threatened by an adult male (physically).  Many parents of DS and non DS see their children as children and not adults.  I know I've  called my adult son a kid many times.  I hope that seeing this will help change their behavior and they will address it to the extent that they can.  I also think with Sean, his outbursts cause his parents to walk on eggshells.  They don't want him to have a meltdown especially on camera.  I've been in that situation minus the camera.  Trust me it is very difficult.

[camom]

Quote

The above sentence (my bolding) is difficult to read.  "Believe me, they don't"?   Unless you know Sean and his parents, the comment is more than unfair.

Yes, I do know them.

Part of the problem, as Cristina's father has pointed out, is that adults with DS may function as nearly age-appropriate in some areas, yet as toddlers in others, and everything in between.  Their "reality" comes a lot from what they see in movies and on TV (I think that's the frame of reference for Steven and Megan for romance).  It can be extremely challenging dealing with someone who is physically an adult, but mentally closer to a pre-teen, especially when it comes to dating, sexuality, etc.

[Nowhere]

When Sean was getting mean right before his surgery, his mother condoned his behavior by making excuses for him. "He gets angry when he feels anxiety", or something like that. And she said it right in front of him without any hint of correction. So when he hears her explain his poor behavior very matter-of-factly like this, he probably thinks it's normal and accepted. I noticed after she said it, he got worse. 

It reminds me of an acquaintance of mine whose whole family tells everyone that their two-year-old son is bad and mean. I guess they think it's cute. They say it as if it is. I think the little boy is a very sweet normal two-year-old who is testing his boundaries, but I guarantee, since he's being told how terrible he is on a daily basis, he will grow up to be just that. Sean's parents strike me as the type who probably pulled the same shit. He's probably been told he's a ladies man since he was a little boy too. 

Edited May 28, 2017 by Nowhere

[woodscommaelle]

"I want love all day."  Someone please make me a tshirt with this on it. 

[princelina]

On 5/24/2017 at 8:02 AM, Ina123 said:

I found the discussion about conservatorship enlightening. I'm in agreement with Sean's mother. What if he does have a very serious medical problem in the future and Sean refuses treatment or won't listen to them? As it stands, Sean is the decision-maker and the hospital scene tonight showed he should not. I found it interesting that they don't have a conservatorship of Sean because of benefits Sean would lose if they did. I found it even more interesting the way Sean's father cut off the entire conversation. It was like he was saying, "shut up". Clearly, Dad is the one making the choice not to have conservatorship. Dad wants the bennies.

My take on that was that they (maybe now just dad) were in denial about Sean's actual abilities and didn't want to ruin his chances at getting into a more independent living style of group home.  I was a middle/high school special ed teacher and saw a lot of that.  Also saw a lot of things that had been cute from a primary schooler outliving their cuteness.  But it is hard to enforce when the rest of the world thinks they're cute too, and people tend to find persons with DS cute regardless of their age.  Even when Sean's "friend" with the girlfriend told Sean to stop hitting on her, it was done with smiles and laughter from everyone at the table.

[anonymousgirl]

[Zanne]

I think the way they'll see a season 4 is by avoiding the manufactured bologna they're trying to shill as the average life of a person with DS. I don't want to see cruises and what other activities they cook up. I want to hear more about the independent living classes Christina is taking or how Elena got to the point where it seems she's living relatively independently in a group home. I would guess that is what most people are tuning in for, not the hype. When they need to start planning big trips to keep viewers, that's when a show is in its death throes. So stop it, Born This Way, and get back to the season 1  basics!

19 hours ago, princelina said:

Also saw a lot of things that had been cute from a primary schooler outliving their cuteness.

So much yes. I'm a middle school Special Education teacher and I see parents who are keeping their children infantilized because they wont let them do anything. It's just easier for the parent to do it so they keep doing it until you have a teenager who can't wash or brush her own hair and needs to hold mom's hand when they go out. Cute at 6, but not so cute when they're turning 20, then 30, then 40 and then mom's gone and the child is left unable to care for themselves.

[Bastet]

10 minutes ago, Zanne said:

I think the way they'll see a season 4 is by avoiding the manufactured bologna they're trying to shill as the average life of a person with DS. I don't want to see cruises and what other activities they cook up. I want to hear more about the independent living classes Christina is taking or how Elena got to the point where it seems she's living relatively independently in a group home.

Same here; I started watching a documentary series, and now I'm stuck with a reality show, which is why I'm only semi-watching.

[camom]

I laughed out loud at Elena and Megan trying to find a man for Kris.  My DS daughter has done the same thing for me.  

When the show began, Elena was my least favorite.  Now I'm so impressed by her.  I think she is probably the most capable of the group.

[kira28]

Well I see where Sean gets his inappropriateness from. His dad leering at Kris's chest when she joked she was wearing a double padded bra then responding "that's double padded?" I get its a joke but you are being filmed and your wife is sitting right there. 

Love Elena. Felt bad for Christina. Even when non ds teens and those in their early 20s move out for the first time they usually have a roommate. I lived with my best friend in college in a rental house, a boyfriend after college and later my husband. The first time I've lived alone is after my divorce and I'm not alone with two kids and two cats. So I understand that cristina is afraid to be alone. 

[camom]

It will be interesting to see how Cristina does in her own place.  It looks to be someplace that has some supervision.  I think her parents are very realistic about her -- they push her to be as independent as possible, but also recognize her limitations.  

As funny as I thought it was when Elena was trying to get a man for Kris in the fish store, I was appalled by Sean at the golf course.  Why did none of the parents tell him that he was being inappropriate?  Once again, his parents laugh at his antics.

[Brooklynista]

I was on the fence with my feelings about Steven , but once he came out with that burrito bowl for Megan???  I just knew that he was

the marrying kind.  You'll get me every time w some Chipotle.

[auntjess]

43 minutes ago, camom said:

As funny as I thought it was when Elena was trying to get a man for Kris in the fish store, I was appalled by Sean at the golf course.  Why did none of the parents tell him that he was being inappropriate?  Once again, his parents laugh at his antics.

I laughed too, but are we being sexist if we're OK with Elena and not with Sean? 
Elena is one of my favorites, but she too should have been told that that wasn't proper behavior.
 

[princelina]

21 minutes ago, auntjess said:

I laughed too, but are we being sexist if we're OK with Elena and not with Sean? 
Elena is one of my favorites, but she too should have been told that that wasn't proper behavior.
 

Thanks - you beat me to it :). I like them both, but neither was behaving appropriately and on a rating scale I would call Elena in the pet store worse.  But once again, most people found them cute, so even Kris didn't have to be too embarrassed about it.  Sean's dad was the worst - you don't have DS, Sean's Dad, so no one thinks you are cute!!

On another note - Elena's best line for me was when the job trainer thanked her for coming in, and she said "You're welcome" so graciously, as if she was the one doing the favor :)

[camom]

I laughed at Elena mainly because my DS daughter has tried to pick up men for me (we've talked about it and she doesn't do it any more).  I did think it was somewhat inappropriate, but Kris wasn't there and there was nothing serious about it.  In Sean's case, he was taking Kris from inappropriate man to inappropriate man like an auctioneer.  Unfortunately, Kris went along with it.  If some of my daughter's friends are behaving in ways that aren't acceptable, I gently correct them (and their parents will do the same with my daughter).  The fact that Kris and Sean's parents didn't see anything wrong with this makes me worry about the day Sean is going to go too far and really get in trouble.

[princelina]

My thing with Elena was the "he's so hot" kind of comments - no worse than Sean calling girls babes.  And if she did it to an asshole who could take advantage (with no cameras around) - that's how she'd be getting in trouble.

Also, I hope Rocco's mom watches the old shows so that she can see that Megan was so "included" that she lost any chance of learning things that would make her independent!

[auntjess]

I think the reason we're quicker to call out Sean than Elena, at least for me, is that 1/Elena was hitting the guys up on behalf of someone else, whereas Sean usually goes after women for himself, and 2/ the difference in strength, and consequently the threat, from a man vs a woman.

[camom]

It was quite telling last night when Kris was talking about Megan and said something like, "I live for her."  (or something like that).  She admitted that she lived solely for Megan.  She also talked about being co-dependent.  It's a tough situation, because Megan has not been taught things she needs to be even semi-independent but she wants he mom to butt out of her life.  (How in the world did she make it through a regular high school with such poor math skills?)

Edited May 31, 2017 by camom

[princelina]

8 minutes ago, camom said:

It was quite telling last night when Kris was talking about Megan and said something like, "I live for her."  (or something like that).  She admitted that she lived solely for Megan.  She also talked about being co-dependent.  It's a tough situation, because Megan has not been taught things she needs to be even semi-independent but she wants he mom to butt out of her life.  (How in the world did she make it through a regular high school with such poor math skills?)

They "modify" the work to the students' abilities.  For all we know, she made it through calculus :)

Edited May 31, 2017 by princelina

[camom]

I know they modify the work, but I bet Megan doesn't know that.  My daughter got basically a "completion" diploma, but to her it's a diploma (and she has better skills than Megan in most areas).  I hate to say it, but I think Kris cared more about Megan being a cheerleader than she did about academics.

[Normades]

32 minutes ago, camom said:

I know they modify the work, but I bet Megan doesn't know that.  My daughter got basically a "completion" diploma, but to her it's a diploma (and she has better skills than Megan in most areas).  I hate to say it, but I think Kris cared more about Megan being a cheerleader than she did about academics.

I get what you're saying and my sister did not have the experience of attending the neighborhood school.  That was not done when she was young.  I also agree that it seems that the socializing and cheerleading were a definite focus for Kris and by extension Megan.  You could be right on that Megan would have much better math skills with the same education as your daughter, but in my experience, you could also be incorrect.  It's been my experience that while some kids excel in one area, they are severely limited in others.  This is what I find difficult about the show because I feel it gives people an unrealistic idea of what it is for people with DS.  Every person has different abilities.  I have concerns when people think if a behavior is corrected or skill is taught that each DS kid would be able to grasp it.  That just is not my experience.  I do think that Kris and Sean's parents could improve skills and behaviors in their children from what we've been shown, but it's hard to be certain of it.  I would hate for people to take that attitude and judge all DS people with it by thinking, well if their parents/teachers/family had done X the kid would not behave like Y.  

Kudos to your daughter for earning her diploma! 

[princelina]

I guess my point was that including her "as much as possible" led to the least amount of independence, and I hope Rocco's mom can see that.  It was great that Megan was able to be a cheerleader, have a boyfriend, etc., but she could have spent some academic time in a real special ed. class where she learned things like counting money and making change, following directions on a recipe, etc.  She still may have had trouble with those things, but she could have been taught and practiced.  Based on the fact that she now thinks she's "in college", I'm assuming that she sat around in regular math and English classes learning nothing and wasting time.  

[camom]

Full inclusion was not an option when my daughter was in school (we had to fight for any mainstreaming).  Inclusion is probably wonderful for many students, but it isn't best for everyone and I hate that parents are made to feel guilty when they choose another option.  My daughter was in special ed classes, where there were 12 student max and two teachers, so she got a lot of individualized attention and it paid off.  Personally, I figured the socialization part was mostly up to me.  Like I said, not everyone fits a particular mold, and parents need to be able to choose what is best for their child without being made to feel that they are failing in some way.  (And what's best this year might not be what's best next year.)  And Normades, I agree that the show may be giving an unrealistic view of adults with DS.  This group is fairly exceptional.

[Normades]

10 minutes ago, camom said:

Inclusion is probably wonderful for many students, but it isn't best for everyone and I hate that parents are made to feel guilty when they choose another option.

So true.  I doubt it would have benefited my sister either.  She was not close to the level of even Megan or Sean.  I do think inclusion is a good thing for those who can benefit because it also benefits typical people.  There were so many times in public in the 70's and 80's when we were in public and people were so cruel.  I remember a man telling my mother that people like my sister should be locked up and put away so that "normal" people don't have to see her.  It's just vile and so hurtful.  I'm sure it still happens, but I think seeing people with DS in school and at jobs in the community (like Sean and Rachel have) also help tolerance.

[princelina]

And from a teacher's point of view - if you try to recommend anything other than full inclusion, many parents take offense in a "You just don't want to have to deal with my child" way.  It's difficult for everyone involved.  I just hope Rocco's mom gets advice from others besides Kris.  Specifically Christina's or Rachel's parents :). They seem like they found the right spot.

[Bastet]

Megan: I love you
Me: The hell? You've been on two dates.
Kris, a second later: Did you just say, "I love you"?  You're just getting ready for your third date!

"So, I'll start becoming co-dependent on the fish instead of you?  Okay."

Kris was making me laugh a fair bit.  (Everyone trying to find her a man was not; jeez, people.)  I know it's painfully obvious where Kris went too far building Megan up and not far enough helping her navigate reality, but I don't dislike her.  Everyone else on this show had a partner in raising their child, and most if not all were older; she was young and doing it on her own.

Cristina asking if she can take pictures of her parents with her to the apartment was sweet.

Steven comparing Megan to his mom (the two women who can make him feel calm), not so much.

Steven realizing Megan is clingy as all hell was kind of funny, and I like the way his dad handled their conversation - it must be such a hard balance to try to draw out his thoughts rather than just saying what's up.

The conversation in the furniture store between Cristina and her parents was the most interesting part of the episode to me.  No father wants to hear about what his daughter and her fiancé will be doing in her bed, so there's an aspect to which that conversation has nothing to do with her DS.  But, there are other aspects to which it does (like the fact she talked about cuddling as if that's all that goes on in bed).  I keep saying that the issues surrounding sex and consent are among the most interesting to me, because that's one of the times when the fact they are adults in age and other ways, but are still effectively children in other ways, seems to make things trickiest for their parents.

[anonymousgirl]

I like how Elena has realistic goals trying out to be a barista and maybe end up being a baker for the store, you can see it was frustrating for her, but she held it together.  If she continues she will gain some confidence in her job. 

About how Elena acted at the Fish store,  yes she came out too forward, but she was mostly making those comments because of kris. At least she stopped herself once one of them said they had a family, etc. Perhaps, she will fix that behavior when she sees this episode. She says she watches and thinks of ways to improver her behavior because she embarrassed by some of her actions on the show sometimes. She seems fairly independent so I don't know how much she is shadowed by her mom or a companion.

Christina, she reminds me myself  wanting to get independent and learning things, she seems slightly high and mighty when picking apartments though, or was it frustration and nerves. I don't know 

I have no comments on the Megan&Steven thing. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by anonymousgirl

[ThinkerBell]

On 2017-5-29 at 3:57 PM, Bastet said:

Same here; I started watching a documentary series, and now I'm stuck with a reality show, which is why I'm only semi-watching.

Haven't watched much of the new episodes for this very reason. I lost interest at the end of last season when the cast seemed more like actors than real people living their lives.

[Zanne]

3 hours ago, Normades said:

I do think inclusion is a good thing for those who can benefit because it also benefits typical people.  There were so many times in public in the 70's and 80's when we were in public and people were so cruel.  I remember a man telling my mother that people like my sister should be locked up and put away so that "normal" people don't have to see her.  It's just vile and so hurtful.  I'm sure it still happens, but I think seeing people with DS in school and at jobs in the community (like Sean and Rachel have) also help tolerance.

Inclusion can be both good and bad for that very reason. It may promote tolerance, but it can also seriously limit independence for a student with a disability. I work with a student who is 100% babied when she's out in the general education setting. Other kids carry things for her and do things for her that she can quite well do for herself which, with her already overly enabling mother, have severely limited her independent functioning. I have talked to every teacher and group that would be most likely to interact with her, but every single year it's like hitting my head against the same damn wall. Yes, she can carry her own backpack. No, you do not need to hold her hand to lead her places. Argh! They're all willing to be overly helpful when the student is young and adorable like Rocco, but far less willing when it's a 40-year old Sean. That can leave a person who expects all the help in the world to be left floundering when they get older.

[Eureka]

Random observations: Elena is like a different person this season! Whatever mood stabilizer or antidepressant she's taking sure seems to be working. I love hearing how she's working on her self confidence. She has some really insightful comments. And in response to what someone said above about comparing her conversation in the pet store to Sean's inappropriate comments, I didn't get that vibe at all. I think there are times when she says inapppropriate things but this scene struck me more as hanging out, kind of shooting the breeze with the guys. It seemed clear to me that it was very scripted, whereas many of Sean's scenes seem more organic, that they come out of his comments.

Speaking of scripted, what the heck was that conversation with Kris and Rocco's mom? She obviously is not a single mom. I know that is the theme of Kris's storyline but couldn't they have found another way to get that in there? That just was weird to me. And Kris keeps talking about Megan being more independent but other than her telling her mom to butt out of her dates, I'm not seeing it. They could at least try to show us stuff like Cristina at the ATM etc.

Which brings me to my last point. Cristina and her parents seem so mutually respectful of each other and I love seeing it. She seems very capable in many ways and I love how her mom said now they just have one left (at home). Lol.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Eureka
Editing because my keyboard keeps freezing up.

[kathyk24]

I think money management is harder for people with cognitive disabilities to grasp. I've worked with people who were much older than Megan who couldn't understand math. Sean's behavior is annoying because he does it all the time where Elena and the others don't.

[Hellohappylife]

New to posting here.

Meghan has always been my least favorite,she just seemed like she thought she was better then everyone from the start. This season she is becoming harder to watch,I literally cringe everytime she & Steven are together,or video chat. The whole "babe!" "I love you" "we're gonna get married" thing is just weird. I don't recall seeing them ever have legit conversations about anything,instead we get the fake "it's this happening" dramatic kiss scenes where they both giggle & look away...., okay? Meghan & Steven need to realize relationships aren't how they look in the movies. 

 

Another thing that that gets me about this show is the Ages of everyone. I know Meghan,Sean,Elena & Steven are young. But aren't Rachel,Christina & John all near 30 or in their 30s? 

I mean I'm 24 & I don't even hang out with people in their 30s? But then again that's just me.

[nlkm9]

yes, the scenes of megan saying "this is happening" over and over are probably just lines she heard on TV. I hope those 2 are ok, I hope in general they are ok once the show goes away and the media attention stops. I was glad to see Elena learning her new job, this is the kind of stuff I enjoyed watching when the show first came on, not all the trips and fake events.( I thought the tea party was a set up by the way)

Edited June 1, 2017 by nlkm9
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[crazycatlady58]

Hellohappylife, maybe  the reason   at 24 you do not hang out with  someone  in their 30s is because  you do not have DS? They share something  in common , a disability   and are learning  how to manage  their disability  together and they have become  friends.