S02.E09: Ten Thirteen

[formerlyfreedom]

A personal loss and subsequent pilgrimage to Miracle offer clues on why Meg embarked on her path as a Remnant crusader. After a fallout with Laurie, Tom seeks to reunite with Meg.

 

 

 

[Cardie]

Meg becomes even more psychotic than Kevin and founds GR Terrorist Brigade. Evie and her friends are recruits. As I've said before, whatever one thinks of The Leftovers, one can never predict what's going to happen next!

[toomuchtv47]

Even with the reveal at the end showing Evie and her friends, this one just didn't engage me as the rest of the season has done.  Mind you, I did manage to watch which is better than I can say for the Matt episode.  Speaking of Matt, I hope he gets a clue and is able to tell someone that Meg has come back.

 

I also wish that Tom had asked 'why did you rape me?' instead of 'why did you f@%k me?'.  I mean, that's what she did.

 

Is next week the last episode?  I wonder if there has been any talk of renewal for a third season or if this is it.

[Mindymoo]

I knew it! I knew those girls didn't depart! This makes so much sense! I wish there was some progress on what happened to Kevin last week, but I guess I will just have to wait another week.

 

I agree though, Tom should have asked why Meg RAPED him, because that's clearly what she did. He was not a willing participant. An erection does not equal consent, people!

 

And poor Matt. I just feel so bad for his entire situation. How are they going to wrap up everything in one more hour? And this show damn well better be renewed!

[represent]

Whoever posted, and I can't remember who, but the post on wouldn't it be funny if Evie decided to plan her own escape and beat her mother Erika to it, you called it.

 

Anyway, I'm not surprised in that when Erika was going on and on to Kevin about how Evie wouldn't do this and she wouldn't do that...she wouldn't want to hurt anybody and vice versa, almost like she was angelic...I remember that in that moment,, I wasn't so sure. 

 

Plus, the earlier scene with Meg when she visited Jarden was definitely a sign that cheery Evie was a fraud and the real Evie was in that scene with Meg. And the real Evie seemed depressed. This scene kind of prepared me for that ending.

 

Now, I really want to know what was in that box she left for her father. 

Edited November 30, 2015 by represent

[Mindymoo]

Now, I really want to know what was in that box she left for her father. 

Dead bird? Fetus? Ash from the "Evil Dead's" severed demonic hand? Who knows with that crazy bitch.

[represent]

 

Dead bird? Fetus? Ash from the "Evil Dead's" severed demonic hand? Who knows with that crazy bitch.

LOL, exactly.

 

But as crazy as she may be she had a molester for a grandfather and IMO that clearly poisoned her father, that family of hers was anything but stable. Something tells me her father would have been beating up people no matter what. Heck Erika even said it, she said to him that he beats people just cause...

 

So, I can't say Evie is any crazier than that family of hers and that she wasn't just trying to save herself the way her mother was going to, except she beat her to it.

 

I'm more impressed with her actually because she had them all snowed in terms of them not even realizing she had it in her. All this Evie is good, kind, wouldn't hurt anyone, wouldn't understand...Yeah right Erika, she understood very well, you didn't understand.

 

They didn't know her at all. 

 

 

Oh, did everyone here know that Tommy wasn't Kevin's biological son? Again, I missed most of season one so I don't know if it was ever mentioned.

Edited November 30, 2015 by represent

[Cardie]

It's probably the most humiliating thing for a man to acknowledge that he's been raped by a woman, so Tom would just translate the encounter as her initiating sex with him. Indeed, I think a lot of men don't consider anything rape unless someone else's penis enters one of the victim's orifices.

[spaceghostess]

Whoever posted, and I can't remember who, but the post on wouldn't it be funny if Evie decided to plan her own escape and beat her mother Erika to it, you called it.

 

Whoo hoo, that was me!! It was a post I made in the thread for "Lens":

 

As far the girls' disappearance, does anyone else think they carefully planned their own "departure"? Something about that one scene showing them blank-faced in the car after seeming so happy and bubbly at the spring convinced me that their inner lives were very different than what the rest of the world was seeing. (Also, the naked running through the woods didn't strike me as the carefree frolicking of children of nature.) Erika may have wanted to leave, but Evie beat her to it.

I'm kinda sorry to have been right in this way, but the clues were there. I guess Meg planted the seed when she visited Jarden the first time around. I just hope Tom can get it together to try and stop this before he gets stoned (and not in the good way).

 

ETA apologies for the egregious pun I committed above (not the "stoned" one, which was intentional).

Edited November 30, 2015 by spaceghostess

[numbnut]

Even with the reveal at the end showing Evie and her friends, this one just didn't engage me as the rest of the season has done.

 

Same here. I can't get invested in characters I don't understand. The Evie reveal was cool, and I'm glad that they backtracked to cover what happened with the hug scam, but the latter was rushed to completion. I don't know enough about Tommy to get why he would follow Meg around like a puppy after she doused in him gasoline and threatened to burn him alive. And what secret could a mother possibly share to turn their daughter into a sociopath? At this point if Meg revealed that she could fly, I'd be like "OK, whatever." I need a stronger foundation for both characters.

Edited November 30, 2015 by numbnut

[izabella]

I'm glad that they backtracked to cover what happened with the hug scam, but it was rushed to completion. I don't know enough about Tommy to get why he would follow Meg around like a puppy after she doused in him gasoline and threatened to burn him alive.

 

 

I thought it was because, when he hugged Meg, she whispered in his ear, "I can do this for real," meaning she could take his pain away.  It follows along with what he told his mother, that their scam isn't helping his pain even if it's helping the people he hugs who feel better.  I think he's following Meg around because he's hoping she can take his pain away.

[spaceghostess]

 And what secret could a mother possibly share to turn their daughter into a sociopath? 

I don't think it was anything remotely profound, but something like, "Oh yeah, I wanted to tell you that I saw Gloria Smithers in the supermarket the other day and she said her daughter Barb, you know, the one you were in cheerleading with? Well, apparently, Barb up and joined the Scientologists! Can you believe that . . . ?"

 

That's what the handprint preacher was trying to warn her about, and of course, he was right. The fact that Meg attached so much importance to whatever her mother--who had no idea she was going to drop dead in the next 30 seconds--was about to tell her is a pretty good indicator of a screw already loose, IMHO. At least the double shock of her mom's death plus 10/14 seemed get her off the the blow, so silver lining, I guess?

Also, wasn't that Betty Buckley as Meg's mom? Saw her in Sunset Boulevard in London a million years ago. She was great.

Edited November 30, 2015 by spaceghostess

[WhosThatGirl]

I thought it was because, when he hugged Meg, she whispered in his ear, "I can do this for real," meaning she could take his pain away.  It follows along with what he told his mother, that their scam isn't helping his pain even if it's helping the people he hugs who feel better.  I think he's following Meg around because he's hoping she can take his pain away.

I agree. He doesn't feel any better with it. And Laurie's "they're getting better" makes him feel even worse  because it's based on a lie. Which, I'm sorry Laurie is true. 

[numbnut]

I don't think it was anything remotely profound, but something like, "Oh yeah, I wanted to tell you that I saw Gloria Smithers in the supermarket the other day and she said her daughter Barb, you know, the one you were in cheerleading with? Well, apparently, Barb up and joined the Scientologists! Can you believe that . . . ?"

 

That's what the handprint preacher was trying to warn her about, and of course, he was right. The fact that Meg attached so much importance to whatever her mother--who had no idea she was going to drop dead in the next 30 seconds--was about to tell her is a pretty good indicator of a screw already loose, IMHO. At least the double shock of her mom's death plus 10/14 seemed get her off the the blow, so silver lining, I guess?

Also, wasn't that Betty Buckley as Meg's mom? Saw her do Sunset Boulevard in London a million years ago. She was great.

 

Yup, that was BB. I was hoping Meg's character would be more developed and not just crazy. Oh well. Tyler is good at being evil though.

 

I thought it was because, when he hugged Meg, she whispered in his ear, "I can do this for real," meaning she could take his pain away.  It follows along with what he told his mother, that their scam isn't helping his pain even if it's helping the people he hugs who feel better.  I think he's following Meg around because he's hoping she can take his pain away.

 

But didn't Tommy think that the original hug guy was a scammer? Why would he believe Meg?

Edited November 30, 2015 by numbnut

[ottoDbusdriver]

Even with the reveal at the end showing Evie and her friends, this one just didn't engage me as the rest of the season has done.  Mind you, I did manage to watch which is better than I can say for the Matt episode.  Speaking of Matt, I hope he gets a clue and is able to tell someone that Meg has come back.

 

To quote from an episode of Family Guy

 

Peter: "That's right folks it's going to be a Meg episode.  Stick around for the fun. Here's the clicker. No one'd blame you."

 

So it looks like Meg is planning to blow up the bridge into Jarden with the Airstream trailer probably full of plastic explosives.  That will show them, because ..... why exactly ?

 

Pulling the old 'tossing a fake grenade into a locked bus full of children' prank was pretty despicable.  Though stoning some guy to death for possibly seeing "something" on the property was brutal.  I still don't understand why all these folks are following Meg -- it would have made a bit more sense to show how Meg came to head up the Provisional wing of the GR.

 

And there is only one episode left -- seems like these last two episodes have been heavy on filler.

 

Oh, did everyone here know that Tommy wasn't Kevin's biological son? Again, I missed most of season one so I don't know if it was ever mentioned.

 

In Season 1, Tommy finally found out who his biological father and visited him, but it really did not go well at all.

[spaceghostess]

Yup, that was BB. I was hoping Meg's character would be more developed and not just crazy. Oh well. Tyler is good at being evil though.

 

 

But didn't Tommy think that the original hug guy was a scammer? Why would he believe Meg?

Yeah, I'm also disappointed that there wasn't more weight behind why Meg so quickly developed into a person even more heinous than Patti (and that's saying something). I mean, there had to have been thousands of people who lost loved ones the day before 10/14, and they're not throwing dud grenades into schoolbuses. Way to bring a gun to a knife fight, Meg.

 

At this point, I'm having trouble figuring out whether Tommy's fucked up beyond repair or just really, really stupid. We already knew he was susceptible to cult thinking, but if he was so offended at the possibility of accidentally starting a cult of his own (which was what was happening as a result of his hug-athons, which he realized, even if Laurie refused to), why was it so easy for Meg to lure him? I can't believe he'd believe that this woman, his rapist, has anything good in store for him. 

[spaceghostess]

 

So it looks like Meg is planning to blow up the bridge into Jarden with the Airstream trailer probably full of plastic explosives.  That will show them, because ..... why exactly ?f

Nah, I don't think blowing up the bridge is her long game. I mean, she may do that just for kicks, but she's here for something way worse. She's going to parade those "departed" girls out in front of the town, only to have them sacrifice themselves in some horrible, disgusting way. That'll teach Jarden, TX to call itself "Miracle". The town's very own, angelic, precious children, volunteering to end their lives for the GR's mission. Meg wants to show the world, starting with this town, that there are no miracles; there is no hope.

[shapeshifter]

I really appreciated Matt being the constant in this episode--not in the Lost sense of "constant," but in that he was his one note self: Honest and vocal about what he sees without regard for possible negative repercussions.

It's probably the most humiliating thing for a man to acknowledge that he's been raped by a woman, so Tom would just translate the encounter as her initiating sex with him. Indeed, I think a lot of men don't consider anything rape unless someone else's penis enters one of the victim's orifices.

They handled this really well, IMO. At first I thought they'd gloss over it, causing viewers' cries of rape and lack of gender equity to blow up the Internet. But then Meg revealed herself to be the same manipulative sociopath she was when she raped him, and, yes, Cardie's explanation for Tom's reaction rings true--at least to me.

If Tom finds his [former] sheriff dad and together they stop death and carnage, it will be much more satisfying that they are family of choice rather than biological father and son. It just seems cooler and also more natural to me. Of course such a happy ending might not happen, but last season did end with Nora's joy at finding Lily.

[WhosThatGirl]

The thing is, Meg I guess was always psycho or messed up. Even before her Mom died, she was doing coke. So, clearly she has never been all right there. I wonder if her boyfriend/soon to be husband knew of her drug problem? My guess is no.

[quangtran]

Well, I was dead wrong. I just assumed that the silent car ride with Evie and her friends was normal. Turns out that it meant everything.

[numbnut]

I still don't understand why all these folks are following Meg -- it would have made a bit more sense to show how Meg came to head up the Provisional wing of the GR. And there is only one episode left -- seems like these last two episodes have been heavy on filler.

 

IKR? There are a bunch of GRs that want to up the ante and need a leader? Since when? The writing is getting too fast and loose. I would enjoy seeing Meg's journey from a dissatisfied GR to a cult leader.

[Cardie]

Meg wants to show the world, starting with this town, that there are no miracles; there is no hope.

 

Looks like she and John Murphy are made for each other.

 

So I guess Michael wished that his sister would come back before putting Kevin in the ground. As his mother learned, sometimes the sacrifice resurrecting doesn't always grant your wish in the way you meant it to.

[michellesings]

Dead bird? Fetus? Ash from the "Evil Dead's" severed demonic hand? Who knows with that crazy bitch.

Yes, the way she was in one of the earlier seens where she was introduced. She and her friends were swimming and they were really creepy towards that poor guy doing his job. Freaked me out a bit. She's always seemed to act like a good two shoes, but something wasn't working for me. Meg is psycho btw! 

[Trick Question]

Well, I was dead wrong. I just assumed that the silent car ride with Evie and her friends was normal. Turns out that it meant everything.

Whew, I'm glad I wasn't the only one that didn't pick up on what seems like an absolutely glaringly obvious hint in hindsight.  People not speaking = Guilty Remnant.  Duhhhh!  I think I even speculated that the girls had joined some new kind of cult, but somehow it never occurred to me what they'd joined THE cult.

 

Meg's ringtone is the chirping noise in the Murphys' house.  I suspect Evie will be giving her folks a call before the big event.

 

And there is only one episode left -- seems like these last two episodes have been heavy on filler.

Is next week's episode two hours long?  There seems to be no way everything can be wrapped up in 60-65 minutes.  Maybe this is Lindelof's grand plan to get a third season --- "Hey HBO, if you want to know how things wrap up, renew us!"  I can't even begin to fathom what a third season would even look like at this point.

[scrb]

Yeah Meg isn't some tortured soul like the rest.  She doesn't feel guilty because she was doing coke while her mother was dying.

 

No she's like a female Charlie Manson except she's not just going to terrorize children or kill random guys, she's going to "take it up a notch" and commit a huge act of terrorism.

 

(meanwhile, Meg's "house" has been operating like gangsters with impunity, because in Leftovers Island, there's no law and order of any kind, because what, the FBI lets some confrontational cult do far more than blow smoke in people's faces?)

 

What a bunch of crock.

 

These shocking stunts is one way to keep the show on the air, make people gasp, mistake cynical storytelling for substance.  

 

IF they tell Evie and the girls' backstory at all, it'll also be probably something tragic which made them likely accomplices.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah, honestly, I got nothing from Megs backstory. It didn't make me feel for her at all. I remember actually feeling for her in the pilot and most of season one since we knew so little about her and the pilot with the guilty ones following her and her husband to be around, I felt for her. Just like I feel for everyone that the guilty ones followed around. Even this season, she was the "cult leader" now but I was still like, well something terrible must have happened to her to make her this way and then this episode, nope. She was just doing coke when her mother died and her mom's death didn't even have anything to do with October 14th as it happened the day before. It just doesn't quite make sense. I do wonder if she stopped doing drugs after her mother died?

 

I also want to know what her Mom said, but like others have pointed out and as we were told, it probably wasn't important. Her mom didn't knew she was going to die and when her Mom was about to start the story, it sounded more along the lines of "I ran into so and so yesterday and she asked about your wedding", it doesn't seem like it was something that would be life-changing. 

[revbfc]

Do we know for certain that the grenade didn't explode? It's not beyond the realm of possibility for this show to play coy with details.

It's also not totally outrageous for this show to let the GR do outlandish things without consequences.

Edited November 30, 2015 by revbfc

[BooBear]

Yeah Meg isn't some tortured soul like the rest.  She doesn't feel guilty because she was doing coke while her mother was dying.

After last week, I admit this show had a high bar to reach and, they didn't. But still this was a FINE episode and a solid origin story.  That said, imho the problem with Meg is that story. Losing your mom who is old isn't all that compelling. Based on my experience had their been a departure the day after my mom's death I probably wouldn't have cared and maybe would have been comforted.  That said, I have seen the phenomina that people feel "entitled" and as people reinforce that entitlement people go more and more off the rails. I see that happening with Meg.

 

I did enjoy seeing a bad Meg. I felt like there was some hint in Liv Tyler's acting in last year's finale. When Matt found her beat up she had this evil look on her face like she didn't care.  I was compelled watching her.

 

Though, my one question, what is Meg doing? Assume she blows the bridge. So what? They will just build a new one. I find it hard to believe there is only ONE bridge, I am sure there are several more that are for Gov't use only.  Where is that gov't agency of alcohol tobacco and cults that took out Holy Wayne? You would think they would be all over the GR.

 

There are a bunch of GRs that want to up the ante and need a leader? Since when?

 

 

That is the one thing I liked. Cults imho always go this way becuase people always join for reasons other than pure intentions. Usually anger. And then corrupt from within, discarding the rules to achieve their own adgenda.  I could see that. GR wasn't particularly organized anyway.

 

Tom is an idiot. He should have left and got the police no matter what was in that trailer. He should have known it wasn't a good thing anyway you looked at it.

[txhorns79]

Though, my one question, what is Meg doing? Assume she blows the bridge. So what? They will just build a new one.

 

I think the idea is about taking away people's hope.  She clearly wants to show Miracle isn't special, and bad things can happen there just like everywhere else.  Though I agree it's odd that government hasn't taken a more active role in trying to bring the GR down like they did with Holy Wayne.  I would have thought after last season's riots, we would have seen the GR under siege, rather than still going mostly strong.   

[stillshimpy]

Well, after Erica's revelation that she was leaving John Evie having chosen to disappear made sense and we briefly talked about it in our household, but we couldn't figure out any reason the other two girls would go. I felt pretty "ohhhhh, duh" when it was revealed.

Guilty Remnant recruitment.

Oh hey, last week Fake Patty told Kevin that story about the baby she was handed to kiss, and the father just walking away. That the baby was in an orphanage, but "everything is going to be fine" "that baby will have trouble forming attachments and with giving and receiving love" (something like that....it was a basic description of an attachment disorder....sometimes people who are abandoned have them to varying degrees),.

So that is apparently what is supposed to be wrong with Meg. She outlined that with her stepfather (gone the next year negating a promised family , the GR believes families are meaningless and wants to destroy them). But apparently it's all going to be just fine? Okay, show. All we need is love. Gotcha.

Also, the story has always made a big deal about Meg's mother dying the day before the Departure, and how she was left alone,without any societal support or acknowledgement of her loss. Ritual is part of healing, etc. so Meg felt abandoned by the world too and then searched for meaning in the last words of her mother, only to have more meaninglessness thrown in. So at least she makes sense as a GR recruit. It's just....fuck her pain. She is terrorizing children and having cyclists murdered in the most hideous ways.

I get why people from the Mapleton GR house are following her. She was one of the survivors of last season's fire and she helped enact the doll plan. She seen as a veteran, etc.

Matt similarly leaves me unmoved. He watches the dog being dumped and feels pain, but does nothing. I HATED him when he did nothing to try and help the cyclist.

Yeah, yeah the world is pain. Take some damned Prozac , GR people ( and I say that as someone who had postpartum depression 20 some years ago and took Prozac for a year, I am not unsympathetic to clinical depression ). Life requires effort and none of us really know what it is for definitively. It doesn't mean you should burn the social contract and kill terrified young men.

I get that people follow the GR because they show up and feed that feeling. Give it direction. Give it purpose. But good gravy, go for a jog and get some endorphins going. This is not the dark ages, this would be a diagnosable problem and it is also part of the cultural conversation.

I know about the entire stigma attached, but it bothers me that within the show people would rather be openly viewed as something to be scraped from the bottom of a shoe. This aggressive form of mass sadness robs so much compassion for it.

I hope they are taking this somewhere satisfying, but after the doll stunt, I have a beyond-hard-time believing that the GR could move around openly and still exist.

Edited November 30, 2015 by stillshimpy

[MamaMax]

Not sure Meg's plan is to destroy the bridge, perhaps it is more to open it up and let all those people inthe camps rush in? Remember the quote from the flyer "To protect it from those who would seek to destroy it" or some such?

 

Although until the reveal, I thought the Airstream was going to be full of explosives too.

 

Also, Matt mentioned that it was Meg's mom in his flyers…can someone remind me what the flyers said? What the point was? Thanks

[numbnut]

Where is that gov't agency of alcohol tobacco and cults that took out Holy Wayne? You would think they would be all over the GR.

 

Maybe they're all buried in a cave somewhere after an earthquake hit.

  

There are a bunch of GRs that want to up the ante and need a leader? Since when?

    

That is the one thing I liked. Cults imho always go this way becuase people always join for reasons other than pure intentions. Usually anger. And then corrupt from within, discarding the rules to achieve their own adgenda.  I could see that. GR wasn't particularly organized anyway.

 

That all makes sense but they didn't show any of it, so it came out of the blue. There's at least one episode missing to show Meg's arc. We only saw Laurie hitting GRs with her car, but she doesn't aspire to be a GR terrorist.

[Turtle]

Did Meg tell Tommy that she wanted to get him pregnant? I listened to that part twice, and that's what I heard both times. Very confusing!

Meg is a total train wreck and I don't think I get her motivation. I was shocked by the Evie reveal, and can't stop wondering how she and Meg stayed in touch to plan all of this, if the conversation we saw was the entirety of their conversation when they met.

Needed more Kevin.

[jcin617]

Did Meg tell Tommy that she wanted to get him pregnant? I listened to that part twice, and that's what I heard both times. Very confusing!

She did say that, and who knows exactly what she meant.   She could have meant it sarcastically, as a roundabout way of saying "because I wanted to", or just a flippant way of giving him a non-answer.

 

I will say this about Meg, I love her "I can't even with this" attitude towards the non-talking of the GR.   

Edited November 30, 2015 by jcin617

[Primetimer]

With The Leftovers in full spiritual self-delight, Meg arrives to blow it all up. Thank God! (And Liv Tyler.)

Read the story

[Maximum Taco]

Well, after Erica's revelation that she was leaving John Evie having chosen to disappear made sense and we briefly talked about it in our household, but we couldn't figure out any reason the other two girls would go. I felt pretty "ohhhhh, duh" when it was revealed.

 

To be fair we don't know a lot about the other girls, they could have problems at home too.

 

But think about it this way, they live in a town where hundreds (thousands?) of tourists come through every week looking for salvation and probably telling them how lucky they are to live there, etc. When to them they're just in their hometown. It's no more holy or unholy then any other place, and just because nobody departed doesn't mean they don't have problems just like everyone else.

 

If you look at the first episode when they're singing in the choir Evie keeps glancing at her friend with a sardonic look, she's almost singing sarcastically. Her life isn't perfect just for living there. And she probably sings or atleast hears that song like every single freaking day.

 

It would probably grate on you if you had problems (even if they were reletively small) and almost everyone you met could only talk about how great your life is because of the town you live in and you had to sing about how blessed you are for living there every single day.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[stillshimpy]

Hey Taco, long time no see! To be cleai was "oh, duhr" ing myself , not the show :-)

It made perfect sense I've just felt stupid for not thinking of it.

Edited November 30, 2015 by stillshimpy

[Maximum Taco]

Hey Taco, long time no see! To be cleai was "oh, duhr" ing myself , not the show :-)

It made perfect sense I've just felt stupid for not thinking of it.

 

To be fair to you, they were very deliberate about keeping it a secret. Most of the time you can figure it out because there are more and more clues as the episodes continue.

 

Pretty much all the clues here were in either episode 1 or episode 2, and then they made a point about limiting the cast, having episodes where we didn't see a lot of people (or saw them very briefly.) It didn't feel strange that we didn't have more time with the Murphys because of course we wouldn't see the Murphys if it was a Laurie/Tom episode, or a Matt/Mary episode, or a Garvey family episode or a "just Kevin" episode. or a Meg/Tom episode.

 

It was a very clever way of trying to outfox the internet community. Most of the time these things are cracked on forums or reddit long before they get aired, because each episode has a clue, and they can't help dropping clues because in most shows the main cast is usually in each episode.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[Cardie]

I'm not surprised the authorities haven't shut down the GR. Although there's evidence that the rights of cultists are not respected as they might have been pre-Departure, the GR have never been caught doing anything more than being persistently obnoxious. The doll thing involved breaking and entering, sure, but most of the violence has always been directed at them rather than committed by them. No one's shut down Westboro Baptist or Scientology. This country bends over backwards not to infringe on even quasi-religious practices. GR central is obviously concerned about heightened scrutiny, thus Meg being dressed down.

 

But the terroristic GR offshoot is being super careful to fly under the radar. That's why poor cyclist gets stoned for "seeing."

[izabella]

Did Meg tell Tommy that she wanted to get him pregnant? I listened to that part twice, and that's what I heard both times. Very confusing!

 

 

That's what I heard, too.  I assumed she meant she wanted to get pregnant with his child, but just said it in a more "shocking" way.

[revbfc]

I'm not surprised the authorities haven't shut down the GR. Although there's evidence that the rights of cultists are not respected as they might have been pre-Departure, the GR have never been caught doing anything more than being persistently obnoxious. The doll thing involved breaking and entering, sure, but most of the violence has always been directed at them rather than committed by them. No one's shut down Westboro Baptist or Scientology. This country bends over backwards not to infringe on even quasi-religious practices. GR central is obviously concerned about heightened scrutiny, thus Meg being dressed down.

But the terroristic GR offshoot is being super careful to fly under the radar. That's why poor cyclist gets stoned for "seeing."

-Multiple, coordinated b&e's

-Harrassment

-Stalking

A good prosecutor only needs two of those offenses for a RICO case.

Edited November 30, 2015 by revbfc

[txwatcher]

Tom is an idiot and lost. The only good thing he did was tell his mother off. But running to Meg was pure stupidity. I loved Liv Tyler's reaction when she learned Tom wanted to go to Miracle. As for Meg's motivation, I going with guilt for doing coke while her mom was having a heart attack. She is targeting Miracle, because she didn't like what Hand Psychic told her. She wanted a profound statement to assuage her bathroom-coke guilt, but got something mundane. And now that is in GR hierarchy, she has the means to teach them a lesson. Matt cracked me up when he brought up the flyers. I was like you idiot esp. when Meg said she'd forgot about that. I could see her adjust her plans a little. It doesn't look good for you Matt.<br /> "You were waiting for me."-Meg

[Uncle Benzene]

And now for something completely different...

 

(Please bear with me here, because I know it's stupid.)

 

So... hello Olivia Newton-John! Here's the thing about that, I was 8 years old in 1980 and therefore I'm quite familiar with ONJ, as she was absolutely owning the Top 40 charts at the time. Must have heard "Magic" about a thousand times back then, but probably only once or twice over the last 35(!!!!!!) years. And so this show starts playing it, and immediately I'm all "Whoa, I know that song. But I'll be damned if I can put my finger on it." And for about the next 10 seconds, right up until ONJ started singing, I had convinced myself that it was some obscure deep-track song by.... Talking Heads.

 

Oh my. And now I cannot get that song out of my head, only it's David Byrne style. And I've gotta say, I'm loving it. Try it. Can you hear it? Because it's kinda fucking awesome.

 

 

Similarly, I was also momentarily bugged in a "How in the hell do I know this song???" kinda way when the folks were singing that "Wade in the Water" hymn on the bus. Then it hit me. It was because of this:

 

 

Good lord. The 1980s: Continually vexing those of us who were there until the day we die. (Or Depart, whichever comes first.)

 

---

 

I love this show. Only slightly less so when there's no Nora. Which has been the case for far too long now. For fuck's sake, Lindelof. Gimme the Nora!

[Trick Question]

I'm not surprised the authorities haven't shut down the GR. Although there's evidence that the rights of cultists are not respected as they might have been pre-Departure, the GR have never been caught doing anything more than being persistently obnoxious. The doll thing involved breaking and entering, sure, but most of the violence has always been directed at them rather than committed by them. No one's shut down Westboro Baptist or Scientology. This country bends over backwards not to infringe on even quasi-religious practices. GR central is obviously concerned about heightened scrutiny, thus Meg being dressed down.

 

Then again, you also have the alcohol, tobacco, firearms & cults guy on the phone with Kevin last season openly saying "just give us the word and we'll come in to kill them all."  There's also that badass government official with the eyepatch who just shrugs and lets Kevin off the hook after he confesses about Patti's death.  I feel like part of the reason Meg is keeping her group hiding in plain sight (normal clothes, people talking, etc.) is so they can avoid being targeted as Guilty Remnant by any authorities. 

[spaceghostess]

 

So... hello Olivia Newton-John! Here's the thing about that, I was 8 years old in 1980 and therefore I'm quite familiar with ONJ, as she was absolutely owning the Top 40 charts at the time. Must have heard "Magic" about a thousand times back then, but probably only once or twice over the last 35(!!!!!!) years. And so this show starts playing it, and immediately I'm all "Whoa, I know that song. But I'll be damned if I can put my finger on it." 

Heh. I was 9 in 1980, and yeah, that song is pretty much hardwired into my psyche. If I were a conspiracy theorist, I might connect a few dots among the choice of "Magic", the cover of "You're the One That I Want" used in episode 2 or 3 this season (can't remember which), and the fact that Kevin's dad is in Australia. But I refuse to go down that rabbit hole, so . . .

 

Also: "White Lines (Don't Do it)"! Wow. I literally haven't heard that in decades, but I recognized it IMMEDIATELY. Was it too on-the-nose (or in-the-nose, as the case may be)? Perhaps. Do I care? Nope. I love the music choices on this show.

[editorgrrl]

Whew, I'm glad I wasn't the only one that didn't pick up on what seems like an absolutely glaringly obvious hint in hindsight. People not speaking = Guilty Remnant.

Is next week's episode two hours long? There seems to be no way everything can be wrapped up in 60–65 minutes. Maybe this is Lindelof's grand plan to get a third season—"Hey HBO, if you want to know how things wrap up, renew us!" I can't even begin to fathom what a third season would even look like at this point.

I only knew about the silent car ride from reading these forums—I must've been getting a snack or something. But I never made the "silence = Guilty Remnant" connection.

I think the finale is 72 minutes.

I missed it—what's the significance of the episode title, "Ten Thirteen"?

[Helena Dax]

I didn't like this  episode as much as I loved the  other ones, maybe because I can't stand Meg. I want to see what she's planning to do, though. Especially if she ends up dead or in  prison  for life.

 

I don't know why everybody is saying that  no one in Miracle has experienced the  pain the Departure brought.  Yes, they were all spared, but I guess they had friends and relatives  in other places, so maybe some of them lost someone.

 

So, the psychic had real  powers: no way he  could  find out about such specific things like the salad and the  nuts. I  mean, he didn't know Meg was going to  visit him, did he? And that means John doesn't know shit. 

 

I had no idea Evie had joined the GR, but the revelation didn't impress me that much.  We didn't know what had happened to them and I was keeping an open mind, so I was more like "great, an answer" than shocked.

 

I missed it—what's the significance of the episode title, "Ten Thirteen"?

 

It's the day Meg's mother died.

[WearyTraveler]

10/13 = October thirteen, the day before the Departure, when Meg's mom died.

 

(Since I didn't watch the preview, though, what came to my head after reading the title was the police radio call 10-13, which means "officer needs assistance", at least in NYC.  I wonder if that was intentional)

[TexasGal]

I'll see you guys White Lines (during which I started sofa dancing...both times it was played) and Magic (during which I started singing alarmingly loud), and raise you that very somber remake of When In Rome's The Promise during the honky tonk scene. I was trying to figure out what the song was and got just ridiculously excited! It's one of my favorite cheesy synth songs that I've always thought would sound amazing in a more mellow fashion. And then I found, many people have already remade it including the one they used. Great music this week, for sure!

Ummm...yeah. So my best guess on Meg making him pregnant was that it planted the idea in his head that they were connected somehow.

[spaceghostess]

Re: "The Promise" (yes, so wonderfully cheesy), I have to admit I missed that . . . because I was sooo skeeved by Meg wrapping her tentacles around Tom that I ff'd the rest of the honky tonk scene. Now I'll have to make myself go back and watch it. Or I'll avert my eyes and just listen.