S02.E09: Russian Roulette

[CooperTV]

Shortly before Elizabeth is to deliver a speech at the United Nations accusing Russia for the attack on Air Force One, Henry shares information that makes her reconsider her theory.

 

[whatsatool]

Great writing, but hated the cliffhanger ending.

[missbonnie]

Knew that it was coming, it's time for the stinking mid season break everybody now feels they need to take. I thought it was excellent and very well written.

Edited November 30, 2015 by missbonnie

[betsyboo]

i need more time to digest, but had to come here to dish about Elizabeth's shoes in the last act. Black loafers with houndstooth heels!! I must have them!!!

 

Henry was a di**head. Even if he *was right.

[shapeshifter]

This is now officially a show I can count on to be good.

Elizabeth complimenting Daisy on her verbal response, followed by Daisy saying she'd had a lot of practice lately, was either accidentally or on purpose a meta comment on how the writers are writing better for Daisy now. I wonder if at the beginning of the show they didn't know enough about the jobs of the characters to write them, so they fell back on the silly romance between Daisy and Matt.

[Netfoot]

What is with Elizabeth that she wants to raise her son as a wuss?  Can't play sports, because he might get hurt.  Can't go fencing, because swords.  Can't ride a bicycle because he might fall down.  Has to eat with a spoon in case he pokes a fork in his own eye.  Sheesh!

 

I know in this universe things are different, but when Russell's office is demanding a copy of the speech, why not tell him to sod orf?  I thought it was very strange to see him participating in a video call to a foreign head of state.  Suppose the guy had said,"Mr. President, who is that little leprechaun, and why is he talking to me?"

 

Liz's hair definitely needs a cut.  

 

Henry?  Well, he's getting so tiresome I just don't want to talk about him.

[buckboard]

Just wondering - Are the wooden stands at a high school football game surrounded by hundreds of people the most secure place to discuss EXTREMELY sensitive policy matters? If someone can hack into Air Force 1, perhaps they might also have the capability of overhearing a conversation out in the public?

[K-9]

How about the White House Chief of Staff eating in the center table of BBQ joint and making threats about prison to the Secretary of State's spouse?!

Overall - loved most of this episode.

[Kromm]

Captain Dr. Self-Righteous Spy Daddy Professor Eye Candy had my eyes rolling even more than usual.

[shapeshifter]

Just wondering - Are the wooden stands at a high school football game surrounded by hundreds of people the most secure place to discuss EXTREMELY sensitive policy matters? If someone can hack into Air Force 1, perhaps they might also have the capability of overhearing a conversation out in the public?

How about the White House Chief of Staff eating in the center table of BBQ joint and making threats about prison to the Secretary of State's spouse?!Overall - loved most of this episode.

Great stuff for the Only On TV thread!

[Scott]

Enjoyed the episode greatly, but I completely got hung up on the fact that they were using the Daley Center in Chicago as an establishing shot for "Ft. Meade - Cybercom".  Stuff like that always amuses me. 

[teebax]

Enjoyed the episode greatly, but I completely got hung up on the fact that they were using the Daley Center in Chicago as an establishing shot for "Ft. Meade - Cybercom".  Stuff like that always amuses me.

I was stationed at Ft. Meade. I didn't know what the building was that was shown, but I knew it wasn't at Meade!

[candall]

My eyebrows shot up at all that condescending chortling in response to Madam President Ostrov's outrage.  They did mention "typical demagogues," but it sounded like they might have all been thinking "time of the month."  Of course Elizabeth recognizes a determined woman but gets shushed because there are councils full of cooler heads over there we can depend on.  Really?

 

(Does everyone else replace Dalton in these situations with real people?  I think I'm prohibited from political talk here, but Bush/Cheney vs. Obama vs. Trump?  Note to self:  bomb shelter stock.)

 

When Henry asked whether Russell's wife knew he ate "like that," was he referring to nutrition or style?  Man, Russell was really facedown in that trough.

 

I had some questions about the sabotage two episodes ago when they knew it was Russia because "plutonium's their thing."  Wait. . .HA!. . .the smoking plutonium just now came into play, as I'm watching.  Jinx.

 

Seriously opposed to the new "split season" system.  Whose bright idea was that?

[Netfoot]

Seriously opposed to the new "split season" system.  Whose bright idea was that?

 

It's awful.  Whoever thought it up needs a week in the stocks.

[MakeMeLaugh]

i need more time to digest, but had to come here to dish about Elizabeth's shoes in the last act. Black loafers with houndstooth heels!! I must have ....

YES! I watch this show only for the great Tea Leoni and to see how far they have to go drab her down in every way (hair, check; makeup, check; delivery and timing, check; wardrobe, check times 1,000), but those shoes snuck through as did a tiny bit of her physical comedy in hopping on Pop there at the end.

[Driad]

 

they knew it was Russia because "plutonium's their thing."

Not plutonium.  Polonium.  Like the poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko

 

 

 

[missbonnie]

It's awful. Whoever thought it up needs a week in the stocks.

I think they need the amount of time wasted on the split season myself. I miss the days when the fall seasons started on the Monday after Labor Day and ran through late May with maybe two weeks off the grid for the holidays.

Edited November 30, 2015 by missbonnie

[gazebo]

I really didn't expect to see Craig Sterling again so soon.  Poor dude!  He couldn't believe Madam Secretary only visited him to ask him a question about his meeting with the Ukrainian president after the Air Force One incident, and not to offer him an opportunity to get back into the White House.  Craig Sterling is still so full of himself.  I can imagine him cursing out Elizabeth after he went back into his house.  I wonder if this is the last time we'll see Sterling again.

 

I think the only time Elizabeth was happy was at the football game with her husband watching their son play horribly in the field.  That made me smile. She's a typical mom who doesn't like it when her kid participates in rough sports.  Very relatable.

 

The Ukrainian president wasn't sorry at all for the Air Force One incident.  He was sincere about why he did it and he'd probably do it again to protect his country from Russia.  Anyway, President Dalton did promise to help President Bozek to protect his country from Russia, so Bozek got what he wanted.  I wasn't surprised when the Russian president decided to violate the No Fly zone over at Ukraine.  President Maria Ostroff is ruthless and vengeful and the U.S. should've been more careful dealing with this hot headed character.

 

This was a very tense, exciting hour of TV watching last night.  I loved it very much!  I guess there is a Winter break now.  When will this show come back on?

[MissLucas]

Great episode - although the 'cui bono' shoe should have dropped much, much faster.

Why's everybody talking about the midseason break - there's still an episode scheduled for Dec 13.

[CMH1981]

 

I wonder if this is the last time we'll see Sterling again.

 

I agree, the way they built him up and to just push him aside so effortlessly last week makes me think we aren't done w/ him yet.

 

I loved the entire conversation b/t Bess and Henry at the football game regarding their son.  It was just so cute how she was saying Jason was doing a great job compared to Henry stating how horrible he was actually doing, it was just a great parenting moment I thought.  

[Calamity Jane]

I'm a little nervous - where do you go after you've had a plot that brings the US to the brink of WWIII?  I love this show, but I don't want it to sink into melodrama. 

[Dowel Jones]

I'm not sure I'd want this crowd running the affairs of state.  Such incompetence borders on the absurd.  Even Stevie, wherever she is, would fit right in on the decision making panel, and none of the various agencies seem to be talking to each other or sharing critical information.  Yes, I know, throwback to 9-11, but DoD isn't talking to CIA who isn't talking to the President, and Russel Jackson is talking to everyone, apparently.  Sheesh. 

[Kromm]

I'm a little nervous - where do you go after you've had a plot that brings the US to the brink of WWIII?  I love this show, but I don't want it to sink into melodrama.

Far too late...

The melodrama has been present throughout. It's only managed to pull it off because it's fairly breezy about it, but it's inevitable it's already starting to wear on the audience.

and Russel Jackson is talking to everyone, apparently.  Sheesh.

Plus we got a ton of "Russell acts like he thinks he's Assistant President/Elizabeth's boss" again. I know we've debated round and round how realistic that may or may not be and won't settle the issue any time soon, but it's just interesting that now that the slimy NSA guy is gone that Russell is back to being... if not the heavy... the unelected, non-Senate confirmed guy who outright gives orders to the SoS. Edited December 1, 2015 by Kromm

[CMH1981]

I've always wondered if Russell's being dismissive to Bess 90% of the time has more to do w/ the fact she is a woman than anything else.  I would love to see a book about the female Secretary of States who might confirm how true it might be where they were talked down to and other such things just b/c they were a woman, even though they had higher rank.

[Kromm]

I've always wondered if Russell's being dismissive to Bess 90% of the time has more to do w/ the fact she is a woman than anything else.

I bet the writers were actually worried about that. Why do I think that? It's what I read behind the reveal we got recently where we found out Russell has this super-impressive professional wife.

[CooperTV]

I've always wondered if Russell's being dismissive to Bess 90% of the time has more to do w/ the fact she is a woman than anything else.  I would love to see a book about the female Secretary of States who might confirm how true it might be where they were talked down to and other such things just b/c they were a woman, even though they had higher rank.

 

Well, seeing as Russel and Elizabeth are (kind of) friends now after her trauma in season 1, I don't think it's because she's a woman that he acts like that. It's pretty clear he's devoted to POTUS above all else.

 

I only liked Russel and his everything this episode, and maybe little bit of Elizabeth's and Henry's marriage. Otherwise it was kind off too stupid. I mean MS sometimes has hunches about the world politics and is very insightful there. But it goes about in implementing those insights on screen in such a childish unrealistic fashion, I have to laugh.

 

Henry McCord and The Ukrainian Plot thing was just ridiculous! The last time Henry was the only one to save the lifting of Cuba Embargo with his quick wit, and SoS and CoS were in awe of his awesomeness! Now he's a hero of the day, working against evil bureaucracy to give classified information to the people! And POTUS, SoS and CoS again look like idiots because Henry is the Most. Amazing. Ever. At. Everything! Ugh.

 

POTUS telling the Ukrainian President off with the Joint Chiefs present like he was a naughty schoolboy was absolute nonsense.

Edited December 1, 2015 by CooperTV

[shapeshifter]

When Henry asked whether Russell's wife knew he ate "like that," was he referring to nutrition or style? Man, Russell was really facedown in that trough.

I thought it was foreshadowing for a serious health event for Russell. Earlier his wife was taking his blood pressure.

I'm a little nervous - where do you go after you've had a plot that brings the US to the brink of WWIII?

I'm just wondering if they are going to move onto something else without giving Ostrov a reason to not retaliate. I don't really care--another good, stand alone story is fine. And I'm even okay if they never really wrap this. But right now I'm curious if a detente will have to happen off screen. Edited December 1, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Kromm]

Well, seeing as Russel and Elizabeth are (kind of) friends now after her trauma in season 1, I don't think it's because she's a woman that he acts like that. It's pretty clear he's devoted to POTUS above all else.

That's the justification that's used, true, but we also clearly see Russell act on his own assumed authority a lot too... and I mean a level of assumed authority where he's dictating to the SoS rather than asking her.

[CooperTV]

That's the justification that's used, true, but we also clearly see Russell act on his own assumed authority a lot too... and I mean a level of assumed authority where he's dictating to the SoS rather than asking her.

I have no issues with Russell being a forceful ass in the matters of the US politics, seeing as his my favorite. But! He assumes authority because he has the authority, is he not?

 

"The duties of White House Chief of Staff vary greatly from one administration to another, and in fact, there is no legal requirement that the President even fill the position. However, since at least 1979, all Presidents have found the need for a Chief of Staff, who typically oversees the actions of the White House staff, manages the president's schedule, and decides who is allowed to meet with the president. Because of these duties, the Chief of Staff has at various times been labeled "The Gatekeeper", or "the power behind the throne".

 

...

 

Most White House Chiefs of Staff are former politicians, and many continue their political careers in other senior roles. Lyndon Johnson's Chief of Staff W. Marvin Watson became Postmaster General later in LBJ's term. Richard Nixon's Chief of Staff Alexander Haig became Secretary of State under Ronald Reagan. Gerald Ford's Chief of Staff Dick Cheney later became a U.S. Representative for Wyoming, Secretary of Defense under George H. W. Bush, and Vice President under George W. Bush. Donald Rumsfeld was another Chief of Staff for Ford and subsequently served as Secretary of Defense both in the Ford administration and decades later in the George W. Bush administration. Rahm Emanuel left the House of Representatives to become Barack Obama's Chief of Staff and subsequently became Mayor of Chicago.

Wiki

Edited December 1, 2015 by CooperTV

[Kromm]

I have no issues with Russell being a forceful ass in the matters of the US politics, seeing as his my favorite. But! He assumes authority because he has the authority, is he not?

 

"The duties of White House Chief of Staff vary greatly from one administration to another, and in fact, there is no legal requirement that the President even fill the position. However, since at least 1979, all Presidents have found the need for a Chief of Staff, who typically oversees the actions of the White House staff, manages the president's schedule, and decides who is allowed to meet with the president. Because of these duties, the Chief of Staff has at various times been labeled "The Gatekeeper", or "the power behind the throne".

You aren't trying to argue with that quote that the Secretary of State counts as a member of the White House staff, are you?

 

If not, the most powerful duties alluded to there is control of who meets the President and when. That's not the same thing as what we see Russell doing. We see him going to Bess' office, or other outside meeting, and giving orders in his own name just as often as in the President's (although even giving one in the President's name would likely be a stretch of his duties, because he's hardly substituting for a telephone--he's always putting his own spin on the orders as well).

[betsyboo]

<tee!> I started this article reading it completely sarcastically - and then it wasn't...... The EW recapper does not agree with the majority of the posters here!  :-))

 

http://www.ew.com/recap/madam-secretary-season-2-episode-9

[Netfoot]

Judging  by that recap, the show should be renamed to Madam Secretary's Husband.

[leighdear]

I'm pretty much on board with what the recapper wrote.  I think they write Dr. Professor Sweetie to look at things very logically, and without the political films that most of the other characters have in place.  Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.  Though they could drop his aggression level down a notch. 

 

And since we don't actually live in their world, I absolutely suspend my disbelief in many of the story lines. 

 

I did love Bess at the football game still wearing her dress slacks and pumps with the football hoodie and jacket. Nice touch.  

Edited December 1, 2015 by leighdear

[CooperTV]

I'm pretty much on board with what the recapper wrote.  I think they write Dr. Professor Sweetie to look at things very logically, and without the political films that most of the other characters have in place.  Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.  Though they could drop his aggression level down a notch.

 

They write Henry to be smarter and more capable than his wife, the titular character, at everything, apparently. I don't watch the show called Madam Secretary to see amazing fits of politicking, espionage and intrigue done by her husband. They should make another show, then, and call it "Super Awesome Daddy Spy".

[roughing it]

Can't Henry just be a stay-at-home dad, get the vacuuming done during the day and rub Elizabeth's feet when she gets home?

[l star]

I think Russell acts the way he does because he's allowed to act this way. He really only has as much power as the president gives him and I think Dalton has given him free range to be his bulldog when the president's not around, and the bearer of bad news to Dalton's friends when he is around. As for Bess in particular, I think he will talk to her that way as long as it works and she doesn't push back.

The episode highlighted more clearly than ever for me how stupid Henry's side job is. He's not allowed to talk to the SOS about matters directly concerning matters of state but oops, she's his wife. He can't talk to the president about matters of national security that he's been told haven't made it to the president but he has dinner with him in the residence and his wife gets calls directly from him in bed at night. This incomprehensible, idiotic situation is where 99% of the melodrama is coming from for me. I am watching a show about the SOS and her interactions with the POTUS and his chief of staff, three of the most powerful people in the world, yet her husband is actually the powerbroker with all the secrets. The drama in everything they did in this episode hinged on Henry's information because he had to know vital information that he is not allowed to tell any of those three people. It's bullshit and I'm over it. Having him be a professor to Russia's future brightest military leaders was more than enough.

I adored the second football scene from Elizabeth trying to steal the pizza and feeling as caught as the boys clearly felt to her telling Henry their son had a bunch of friends all named dude. My second favorite part was Henry bringing up the intrigue and Bess randomly switching back to Jason. I enjoy the quirks of how her mind works a lot more than watching her hand wringing and self doubt faces all episode long. And the one time I did like Henry was at the football game when he said actually Jason was playing awful and he was pretty sure that was his best. Hee!!

I thought Bebe was too harsh with Matt. While she was right, his feelings of disappointment were very valid too. Knowing it's for the best doesn't make them go away.

While talking in the stands was pushing my limits, discussing secrets in public doesn't typically bother me. In the diner, who was going to overhear? And more importantly, who was going to know to try? As far as TV tropes go, I can hand wave this one.

Bess has been wearing awesome shoes for the last few episodes. These black loafers with the houndstooth heel and a black pump with a lucite heel come to mind. I think I'm forgetting at least one more. Now if only she could tuck in her shirt, at least all the way across the front. That white sweater almost made up for it though. And her ass looked great in those jeans. I'm surprised that so far we've never seen Russell interrupting her at the gym.

[kwnyc]

Whoever said in the last eppy thread that the writers seem required to make Henry AS smart and AS resourceful as Bess because she's a female and the husband has to be her equal is positing a pretty good theory.

 

It is kind of ridiculous that he has to all but wear a cape with an "S" on it, and it kind of beggars the imagination that the full scale Russian battle plans wouldn't include something like the hacking of Air Force One. (Though the Chinese ambassador is growing on me. He schooled Bess on their long game...which involves an economic, rather than military takeover).

[Dowel Jones]

POTUS telling the Ukrainian President off with the Joint Chiefs present like he was a naughty schoolboy was absolute nonsense.

 

It's the second time they've used the scene as "you sit down while we stand over you".  I wonder if a head of state  would actually take that kind of intimidation in stride or would he/she stand up and look everyone else in the eye?

[Netfoot]

Whoever said in the last eppy thread that the writers seem required to make Henry AS smart and AS resourceful as Bess because she's a female and the husband has to be her equal is positing a pretty good theory.

 

Also, will Tim Daly settle for a part that has him making dinner for the kids?  I notice he has the top billing at IMDB, and is credited with 32 episodes to Téa Leoni's 31...

[CMH1981]

 

Well, seeing as Russel and Elizabeth are (kind of) friends now after her trauma in season 1,

 

I didn't see that as bonding...more of the pull your shit together for the sake of POTUS and his legacy.  He knew what she was going through and decided to step up and call her out on it before going to POTUS and saying she isn't fit to serve anymore.

[whatsatool]

More Bebe please.

[Kromm]

Also, will Tim Daly settle for a part that has him making dinner for the kids?  I notice he has the top billing at IMDB, and is credited with 32 episodes to Téa Leoni's 31...

IMDB is not official. It's user inputed, I believe.

[Netfoot]

IMDB is not official. It's user inputed, I believe.

 

I know this.  But my point was, maybe they're giving him a larger part because he's demanding it.

[shapeshifter]

I know this.  But my point was, maybe they're giving him a larger part because he's demanding it.

Does he have the clout for that? Anyway, Dr. Arm Candy's role has been pretty big since the beginning, so I'd wager it was part of the writer(s)' vision from the get go.

[Netfoot]

Dr. Arm Candy's role has been pretty big since the beginning, so I'd wager it was part of the writer(s)' vision from the get go.

 

Sure, he always had a larger role than house-husband.  But he's no longer just dropping little nuggets into the conversation about how he took time off advising the IMF, to climb Everest without oxygen!   Now, he's telling them how to handle Cuba.  He's running the best asset the NSA has ever had in the entire history of time.  He's recognizing the significance of his intelligence when nobody else can (would he even have been allowed to see the incoming material?).  He's contacting the Presidential Mini-Me directly to tell him how to handle conflicts with foreign super-powers.  This is significantly more than we saw originally.

 

Maybe, he recognizes that his position in the series is somewhat difficult to write out.  Maybe his girlfriend Téa is supporting him when he asks to be given a larger role.  I don't know, I'm only speculating.  All I know is that if the trend continues, they will have to change the title to Mr & Mrs Secretary by the end of the season!

Edited December 2, 2015 by Netfoot

[missbonnie]

Why's everybody talking about the midseason break - there's still an episode scheduled for Dec 13.

Ah! I didn't realize that, but why air this episode and then wait 2 weeks air one more and then take the break? That's almost as annoying as the damn break. LOL

[MissLucas]

Ah! I didn't realize that, but why air this episode and then wait 2 weeks air one more and then take the break? That's almost as annoying as the damn break. LOL

No idea - I've noticed that plenty of shows take a break this week and return next week (for one or two episodes before the Holidays). I don't live in the US so I've got no idea what's going on: football, presidential debates, Thanksgiving hangover.

[shapeshifter]

All I know is that if the trend continues, they will have to change the title to Mr & Mrs Secretary by the end of the season!

Heh! Is that an accidental or on purpose reference to Brad and Angelina have met on the set of Mr & Mrs Smith?

[Brookside]

YES! I watch this show only for the great Tea Leoni and to see how far they have to go drab her down in every way (hair, check; makeup, check; delivery and timing, check; wardrobe, check times 1,000), but those shoes snuck through as did a tiny bit of her physical comedy in hopping on Pop there at the end.

 

It's as if Wardrobe shops at Ross for her clothes - most of what she wears is so cheap looking.

 

And what was with the President's hair going from mainly dark to snowy white during the walk from the situation room to the Oval Office?

[kwnyc]

 

And what was with the President's hair going from mainly dark to snowy white during the walk from the situation room to the Oval Office?

 

It's the STRESS OF THE JOB, man! ;-)