S12.E08: Things We Lost In The Fire

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Wow, once again the doctors of Seattle Grace Mercy Death show how professional they are while at work. Amelia screams at Penny to GET OUT. Owen punches Riggs (twice) in the hallway right outside patients' rooms. Callie goes on and on about breakup sex vs. makeup sex in the middle of surgery (I always feel bad for the nurses and other staff members who have to listen to the doctors go on and on about their personal shit). April yells about having sex with Jackson in front of the hospital. Arizona tries to ask out a patient while her ass is still exposed. I mean, seriously, you guys. Maggie having sex with Andrew in an on call room is the least inappropriate thing that happened in this episode.

Amelia can STFU and have a damn seat. I have seen this on so many shows lately (and in real life too, but fictional characters are much more relevant, right?) - sometimes people have the ability to keep a secret, especially when it's someone else's secret, what a concept! Yet anyone who doesn't know the secret is totally offended by the fact that the secret holder won't tell them the secret. If the situations were reversed OF COURSE they would want their friend to keep their secret instead of blabbing it to everyone else, but when the shoe is on the other foot they get mad that they aren't privy to every bit of someone else's life.

Even before we found out the big secret at the end of the episode, I was already on Meredith's side. She approached Owen's mother who told her the truth. Meredith is in no way obligated to share that information with Amelia. I get that Amelia is concerned about Owen but she could have gone in to talk to his mom and she chose not to. Side note: I liked the way that Meredith approached talking to Owen's mom. She didn't ask what the secret was. She just asked how worried she should be about him.

One of Amelia's problems is that she feels left out, which I understand sucks, but when you choose to be with someone you have to accept them the way they are, not try to change them. Owen is not the most communicative about sharing his feelings. If she doesn't like that, then he isn't the guy for her. As he told her, not everyone wants to talk about everything. There's nothing wrong with how much or how little you want to talk. You just need to be with someone who is okay with your level of sharing. If Amelia wants to be with someone who is going to tell her all his deepest, darkest secrets and gab all day about whatever comes into his head at the moment, then Owen is not a long term prospect.

Her sense of entitlement is so annoying. Just because you are dating someone/sleeping with someone does not mean that you can demand that they share every feeling or secret they have. Having sex with someone doesn't give you carte blanche to climb inside their head and dig around. If Owen doesn't want to confide in her, that is his right. He is still entitled to his privacy and to choose what he wants to share with her.

But what really made me mad was how Amelia took her anger out on Meredith and tried to make it sound like she was entitled to demand Owen's secret because they are sisters and Amelia is somehow better than Cristina by virtue of proximity. First of all, I have two sisters and I have three sisters in law. None of them are required to tell me ANYTHING. I am sure they all have things they haven't told me and that's totally fine and normal. I would never demand that they tell me something that they didn't want to tell me.

Secondly, Cristina did not ABANDON Meredith as Amelia said. She took a really great job offer that happens to be outside of Seattle. Being in another country doesn't make Cristina a shitty friend. Conversely, Amelia didn't accept the job in Seattle because she loves Meredith and wanted to be closer to her. And in spite of her extreme proximity, Amelia is a terrible friend to Meredith.

Now I do believe that all of my in laws are my family, but I whooped with laughter when Amelia tried to play the "I'm your sister" card and Meredith shut that down immediately by telling her, "You are not my sister. Cristina is my sister." I also loved when Amelia very pissily said, "You are loyal to some woman who is halfway around the world," and Meredith matter of factly replied, "Yes, I am." And when Amelia accused Meredith of keeping Penny around to keep Derek's memory alive, I loved that Meredith just gave her a withering look and said, "You are such a child." HA!

Amelia really crossed the line this week, but when she said that Derek would be disgusted by Meredith being a hollow shell, I was like oh HELL NO. Meredith is not a hollow shell. She is content with her life, being a doctor and having invisible kids who live at the hospital daycare. That doesn't mean she is hollow. And no, Amelia, not everyone needs to have a man to be happy so quit projecting your issues onto Meredith.

Most importantly, if Amelia is going to be mad about not knowing Owen's secret, it should be OWEN, not Meredith. She feels free to yell at Meredith for keeping Owen's secret but when it comes to Owen, she just tiptoes away. I mean, I would too since he seems like a volcano that's ready to explode, but the point is that Owen is the one with the secret and Owen is her boyfriend/sex partner/whatever so if there's anyone she should yell at, it's Owen.

Loved Weber this week. First he gave Bailey a mini pep talk before her first big emergency at the hospital (although he should have just told her to stand on the landing from the beginning instead of having her back up the steps while she was talking) and then he was awesome with Arizona. I loved that he was not about to play the middle school "Do you like me? Check one: yes, no, maybe" game with Arizona and the burned butt cheek chick. Then he gave her a good pep talk about unfurling her wings and flying which gave her a boost of confidence and also kept him from having to play wingman.

The one sour note in Arizona's crush storyline was the look on her face when she realized the firefighter lady had a girlfriend. Now maybe that expression was supposed to convey disappointment that she wasn't available, but I see a similar look from guys a lot when they find out a girl they just met has a boyfriend, and I have heard many of them whine, "Why didn't she tell me that she had a boyfriend in the first place?" which seems ridiculous to me. Unless you met this person at a singles mixer or a dating website, why should you assume this person is single and wants to be hit on in the first place?

Haaaaated the Jackson/April storyline this week. The only good thing to come of it was Jackson telling her that if she would stop talking about how they don't have time to talk, they would actually have time to talk. I hate when April gets loud and whiny and hysterical. The whole shrieking conversation she had with him outside the hospital was just terrible. I'm glad that Jackson told her she doesn't get to just decide what's going to happen. Sadly, I fear that we will find out that he wants to reconcile with her. Don't do it, Jackson - RUN!

I also hated the Jo/Alex storyline this week. As soon as I saw the champagne glasses, I knew he was going to propose. Noooooooo! I think I would like Jo much better if she was not with Alex. I'd rather see her be a competent doctor than whining about things like Izzy's embryos or Meredith not liking her.

I loved Ben coming up with the hand in the stomach solution and then crowing about it every chance he got. That is the kind of thing I miss from the early seasons. Heh, or maybe I only miss it because we don't see it as often now. It seems like the only doctor who regularly pats herself on the back for her brilliance these days is Amelia.

Edited November 20, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Qoass]

With Owen/Riggs, my mind went to Darcy/Wickham.

 

I am a horrible person but didn't that guy on the table seem a little, um, "studly" to be Debra Mooney's boyfriend?

 

I'm surprised how much I'm liking the new mature Meredith.  She's not all the way there but she's miles from where she started.

 

When Weber mused that he wished his wife were there, I immediately thought of Adele.  I'd forgotten all about the new one.

 

Stop talking, Callie.

[Slider]

 

And, no, there's no way a Mt. Baker fire (heck, a Rainier fire) would cause that kind of smoke and ash in Seattle. Maybe in Rainier erupted...LOL. Season 13?

 

When they did the quick shot out the window after Bailey and Weber were talking, I thought they were showing a volcano in the distance!  But then it was just a fire. Volcano would have been cooler - and would have made more of an impact if the doctors were professional and not all talking about their sex lives while treating patients.  It would have been fun to hear speculation about when the eruption would end, lava flow, etc.  Alas, Ben is the only professional one there!

[PrincessTT]

When Weber mused that he wished his wife were there, I immediately thought of Adele.  I'd forgotten all about the new one.

 

I thought I was the only one.

I actually like Catherine, but I thought of Adele straight away when the Chief mentioned his wife. 

[Artymouse]

Thinking more about the Jo and Alex conversation, I really can see it from both sides. Since Jo didn't know Alex in the early years, she can't understand how valuable Meredith's friendship was to him back then. She was a friend to him when everyone else hated him, rallying the rest of the crew to help him study for his boards, in one notable example. 

 

But on the other hand, there comes a time when you need to put your SO before your friends. And I can see how  Jo feels left out and disrespected. Granted, Meredith has been through a lot and has needed him, but she's back on her feet, and Alex needs to make Jo his priority now.

[Qoass]

Now that Alex and Jo are engaged, I really, really want a "ripped from the headlines" plot in which Izzy comes back for her fertilized eggs.

[Chicken Wing]

The friends were not particularly nice or welcoming to Callie when she was first introduced, but even George didn't take this long to stand up to them and tell them to stop disrespecting his girlfriend. I know you and Meredith are each other's "person" now, Alex, but come on. 

[maasa]

 

Since Jo didn't know Alex in the early years, she can't understand how valuable Meredith's friendship was to him back then. She was a friend to him when everyone else hated him, rallying the rest of the crew to help him study for his boards, in one notable example.

I don't recall Jo ever asking/expecting Alex to dump Meredith as a friend. She may not know specifics but I think she gets Meredith is an important friend in Alex's life. Her complaint is that Meredith treats her like dog shit stuck to the bottom of her shoe and Alex says nothing.  It is true though that Jo has never seen Meredith being there for Alex. I'd say she has seen the flip side. Meredith busting in while Alex was preparing for his boards and taking all his time with her issues, not voting for Alex, barely saying a word to him when his father was around and so on.  Honestly, at this point is bigger than Meredith. Alex needs to actually hear what Jo is saying and realize his part in how Jo has been feeling.  

The friends were not particularly nice or welcoming to Callie when she was first introduced, but even George didn't take this long to stand up to them and tell them to stop disrespecting his girlfriend. I know you and Meredith are each other's "person" now, Alex, but come on.

Exactly! Jo & Alex have been together for years.

Edited November 20, 2015 by maasa

[Joana]

I didn't think Amelia came accross quite as badly as she did in the promo. Yeah, she said horrible and absurd things but she was feeling shut out and it can be really painful. I can at least get her somewhat and felt sorry for her in the end. But she's totally going to do it with Riggs and it will be more drama and yawn. 

Meredith's concern for Owen still seems forced and contrived to me. Speaking of him, he told Riggs "It's my family, not yours", which I don't think he'd ever say to his sister-gone-brother no matter what he thought of such choice, so yeah, it's his brother in law who he holds responsible for his sister's death.

 

Sigh, Arizona is still comic relief. Also, what exactly is she supposed to be doing? I thought it was kinda funny when she said she makes a living treating sick babies when the patients we've seen her work with this season are a 90-year old man and a woman with a burn on her butt. While we're at it, they'd make a cute couple. 

 

I hope Jo rejects Alex's marriage proposal. They have issues and a wedding ring isn't going to magically solve them. I liked how she and Stephanie resolved their situation. No grand speeches, no over the top emotion, no "you're my person" crap, just two people acknowledging they've been in the wrong about the way they've treated each other.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Joana

[Zipper]

I like Meredith (without forgiving some of her more awful behavior).  I like Owen (when he isn't indulging his rage/frustration/loneliness to the disservice of the show).  I like Amelia (in small competent doctor doses).  The story arc of Derek's death has made Amelia nearly intolerable-- yes, she lost a brother; yes, Meredith deprived her of a goodbye; yes, she carries demons.  All of that is understandble motivation for some serious emotional responses to Penny as well as  Mer's processing of the Penny hire-- but I cannot endure this shreiking harpy they have mader her.  The show has never revealed a sibling bond between Amelia and Mer, so her constant spewing of bile and fury in Mer's direction renders her unwatchable.  I'm not giving Mer a pass on her contributions to this dynamic, but I've been watching her for 12 years, I didn't watch PP very long, and Amelia is (to me) a secondary cast member.  So, Shut UP Amelia.

 

The same might go for Owen.  He is my least favorite when he's repressing and acting out simultaneously (with a pass for the PTSD component).  Tonight we learned that whatever horror Riggs committed, it was not sufficient to deprive the affection of Owen's mother.  So, that means Owen is grinding his own axe, and I don't care if Riggs got drunk, crashed his car, and killed Owen's sister and two beautiful children (total speculation, but BIL is my read).  Because I never met her or them.  If the putative mother/grandmother of the now likely dead people isn't enraged at the sight of him, then Owen needs to get it together.  There may be facts Owen knows that MIL doesn't, but still.  It feels like he has been acting like a complete tool for weeks on end.

 

Riggs:  Dude, you're new.  Read the room already. 

[Deanie87]

First things first:  Thank god this episode didn't end with Meredith in yet another near death cliffhanger.  That fact alone was enough to make it more enjoyable than I thought it would be.  I still think that ending the first "half" of the season after only 8 episodes disrupts the flow of the season, but it will be nice to have a bunch of episodes in a row when it comes back.  You know, nearly 3 MONTHS from now.  

 

I continue to enjoy the way that they are mixing things up with the characters this season.  Richard and Arizona continue to be awesome together (and I haven't liked Arizona this much in awhile) and I really enjoyed the Jackson, Callie and Ben dynamic, even though Callie was doing the thing that annoys me the most about her.  

 

I am on the fence about Riggs.  What is with people showing up at the hospital knowing that some people really don't want them there (Penny, Riggs, Amelia)?    

I am also not sold on his rugged handsomeness either.  However, that DeLuca just keeps getting more adorable!  

 

Kudos tonStephanie for apologising to Jo also and acknowledging that she is a good surgeon. I've always liked their friendship and was glad she not only came through for her in the end but admitted their falling out wasn't entirely on jo either.

 

 

I'm glad that they made up, but I didn't like Steph telling her that it wasn't Jo's fault that the attendings weren't paying attention to her.  Whether its true or not, Jo needs motivation to start making herself be seen and heard and allowing her to think that everyone is just picking on her because they are sooooo mean just reinforces her position as a poor victim, and I hate that look on her.  And Steph telling her that she was a good surgeon just sounded insincere and hollow, especially since it came after Jo's "I know you don't think that I can apply a band-aid" speech.  Jo is making progress on standing up for herself, but she needs to start working on it as a surgeon.  Again, I'm glad that they made up but I didn't really like the way it went down, except when they told each other that they missed each other.

 

But at the same time, Amelia was right when she accused Meredith of taking her grief out on Penny and being kind of distant and bitchy while at the same time milking the Grey halo.

 

As much as I loathe to agree with Amelia about anything, or even spend time discussing her, Meredith has been pretty awful this season.  Its not so much what she is doing, its just the cold and dismissive way she is treating everyone, friends and enemies alike.  I get that she is grieving still and I am sure that in her mind she is the only adult at the hospital (HA) and has so much more responsibility and tragedy than anyone else on the planet, but her attitude isn't fun to watch and hasn't been for awhile.  With all that she has been through, it should be very easy to root for her, but it just isn't.

 

I agree. Jo saying yes won't change anything really. Alex appears to be blind to how Meredith has been treating her all this time. He never says anything, brushes it off if Jo says anything and runs off to Meredith over and over. I do think he loves Jo and sincerely wants to marry her but he needs boundaries in his friendship with Meredith.

 

 

*Sigh.*  I just don't know what the best outcome here is.  On the one hand, this is the second time that Alex has proposed (though his timing IS terrible and I don't really count the first one but he does), so her saying no makes me sad.  But on the other hand, he isn't listening to her no matter how much he says he is.  He dismissed her feelings yet again, by even proposing after she said that it wasn't working and she was going to stay elsewhere.  And I did appreciate that she told him that she wasn't asking him to give up his friend and that she wasn't going to ask him to choose, so she was just going to do what she had to do for herself.  So maybe a tentative "yes" or some kind of compromise where she isn't totally turning him down but that the timing isn't right and that her career needs to be her priority right now.  I don't know.  I do think that it was a cop out that Meredith's rudeness and Alex's oblivion to Jo in this episode was due to the impending proposal.  That doesn't make all of the other times magically disappear and yet again lets the both of them somewhat off the hook for their behavior.  I would have liked to have seen a conversation between Alex and Meredith regarding him proposing just to see her be a little supportive of their relationship and to be happy for Alex.  On a shallow note, I hate the way that they are dressing Alex this season, with the tucked in and belted button down shirts.  It isn't flattering and it makes him look like a boring old middle aged businessman.  I get that he is supposed to be a newly minted grownup, but he doesn't have to look like an insurance company middle manager.  

[Chicken Wing]

Meredith's concern for Owen still seems forced and contrived to me.

 

Very much so, mainly because it is. She flat out admits that she's looking out for him because Cristina asked her to. When Owen and Amelia first start hooking up, she butted into their business for the same reason and also admitted as such. It's hard for me to take her concern seriously as a genuine thing when it's really just a duty she owes to someone else. That, along with her taking that "I'm going to hate Riggs for no reason at all just because Owen hates him and I'm on his side by default even though I have no idea what the hell's going on" thing to the level of interfering in his efforts to assist in patient care, disagreeing with everything he says just because he said it, not to mention her behavior with Penny the last couple of episodes, and I kind of wish she had been in that car with Derek.

[Gladrags]

God, just about everyone on this show has become an asshole.

LMAO! Tea ... out my nose ... 

 

I don't think transgender either because Shonda wouldn't have Meredith say "sister" if she was referring to Riggs.

True, and Meredith wouldn't have used the past tense. But transgender was certainly my first thought, probably because I was expecting a jaw-dropping cliffhanger, and Owen having a sister and Riggs being his bro-in-law isn't up to that mark,

 

I remember Loanne Bishop, the doomed firefighter's wife, from General Hospital. 

 

I thought she looked familiar! She does pop up now and then in small parts.

 

 And when Amelia accused Meredith of keeping Penny around to keep Derek's memory alive, I loved that Meredith just gave her a withering look and said, "You are such a child." HA

it would have been so fitting, given the maturity (NOT) of Meredith's and Amelia's conversation - or should I say shouting match - if Amelia had countered with: "I know you are, but what am I?" Heh.

[Chicken Wing]

I don't really have an issue with much of Amelia said, because what she said was almost all true. I think even Meredith could recognize that, however much she was annoyed with Amelia. I think on some level she knows that the real reason she encouraged Penny to come to Grey Sloan after all, insisted on taking her on her service, and proceeded to treat her like crap was because she needed a punching bag to take out her Derek feelings on. Penny is a bulls'-eye for everyone to see. See! It's her! She's the one! So Amelia wasn't off the mark with that accusation. But she went too far with spitting out that Derek would be disgusted to see what Meredith has become and how she's acting. You don't go there. Telling Amelia to get out of her house was the least of what Meredith could have done in response to that. It would not have surprised in the slightest if she'd punched her.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[esco1822]

I like Meredith (without forgiving some of her more awful behavior).  I like Owen (when he isn't indulging his rage/frustration/loneliness to the disservice of the show).  I like Amelia (in small competent doctor doses).  The story arc of Derek's death has made Amelia nearly intolerable-- yes, she lost a brother; yes, Meredith deprived her of a goodbye; yes, she carries demons.  All of that is understandble motivation for some serious emotional responses to Penny as well as  Mer's processing of the Penny hire-- but I cannot endure this shreiking harpy they have mader her.  The show has never revealed a sibling bond between Amelia and Mer, so her constant spewing of bile and fury in Mer's direction renders her unwatchable.  I'm not giving Mer a pass on her contributions to this dynamic, but I've been watching her for 12 years, I didn't watch PP very long, and Amelia is (to me) a secondary cast member.  So, Shut UP Amelia.

 

The same might go for Owen.  He is my least favorite when he's repressing and acting out simultaneously (with a pass for the PTSD component).  Tonight we learned that whatever horror Riggs committed, it was not sufficient to deprive the affection of Owen's mother.  So, that means Owen is grinding his own axe, and I don't care if Riggs got drunk, crashed his car, and killed Owen's sister and two beautiful children (total speculation, but BIL is my read).  Because I never met her or them.  If the putative mother/grandmother of the now likely dead people isn't enraged at the sight of him, then Owen needs to get it together.  There may be facts Owen knows that MIL doesn't, but still.  It feels like he has been acting like a complete tool for weeks on end.

 

Riggs:  Dude, you're new.  Read the room already. 

Fortunately or unfortunately, I did watch Private Practice and I always thought Amelia was a shrieking harpy.  She has always been petulant, entitled and self-centered so I thoroughly enjoyed Meredith giving her the smackdown.  I actually think that Amelia being Derek's sister is why Mere didn't tell her off sooner.  Why oh why did we get stuck with Amelia?  They should have given us Charlotte King instead.  Best character on PP.  

[Joana]

Very much so, mainly because it is. She flat out admits that she's looking out for him because Cristina asked her to. When Owen and Amelia first start hooking up, she butted into their business for the same reason and also admitted as such. It's hard for me to take her concern seriously as a genuine thing when it's really just a duty she owes to someone else. That, along with her taking that "I'm going to hate Riggs for no reason at all just because Owen hates him and I'm on his side by default even though I have no idea what the hell's going on" thing to the level of interfering in his efforts to assist in patient care, disagreeing with everything he says just because he said it, not to mention her behavior with Penny the last couple of episodes, and I kind of wish she had been in that car with Derek.

Amen to all that! They were never really that close for her to automatically take his side in a dispute with someone, especially when she doesn't have the slightest idea what it's all about. Sure, I'd understand that she'd want to be there for him in case he experienced a personal tragedy of some sort or developed a drinking problem or what not, but this is just stupid. 

[Chicken Wing]

Also, I can't really get on Owen's side with his refusing to open up to anyone - Meredith, Amelia, etc. - and say what his deal is with Riggs. If it was just a minor, little personal beef that he could push aside and no one would ever need to be the wiser that he hates the guy, then that's one thing. Then he can say it's none of their business and he'll handle it, carry on with your day. But he's flipping out on his coworkers, throwing tantrums, PTSDing in the on-call room, trying to pull Riggs off of a surgery that he's literally in the middle of just because he's Riggs, punching him in the hallway. Now it totally is their business because he's bringing his shit into their working environment and disrupting their jobs, and so they absolutely have a right to ask what the hell is going on between he and Riggs that's making him act this way.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[Joana]

It also makes me understand Amelia, at least up to a point. It's obviously something serious and if she and Owen really are going somewhere, he should able to open up to her and tell her what the problem is. Instead he shuts her out and chooses to confide in Meredith, who while being his ex-wife's "person", is actually just another co-worker for him. Of course it doesn't make it OK to say all those things, but I understand why she'd be hurt. 

[windsprints]

It also makes me understand Amelia, at least up to a point. It's obviously something serious and if she and Owen really are going somewhere, he should able to open up to her and tell her what the problem is. Instead he shuts her out and chooses to confide in Meredith, who while being his ex-wife's "person", is actually just another co-worker for him. Of course it doesn't make it OK to say all those things, but I understand why she'd be hurt. 

Owen didn't really confide much in Meredith. He told her he didn't want to talk about it. She then went to his mother and confronted him about having a sister. He may talk to her know that she found out but its not like he went to her. I agree with you that if Owen and Amelia are going somewhere he should at least not be so dismissive of her even if he doesn't want to tell her everything. I find it bizarre that during the past 1.5 years after Amelia losing her brother that Owen never told her that he lost a sister (if that is what happened). 

 

She has always been petulant, entitled and self-centered

 

Just like Meredith.

Edited November 20, 2015 by windsprints

[kingshearte]

I'm fine with Amelia. I don't even know why she tries to have a relationship with Meredith. If I were Amelia, I would've told Meredith to fuck all the way off the minute she pulled the plug on my brother without waiting for his family. They're clearly just tolerating each other since Derek was the buffer, but Meredith is an asshole. She's going on as if Owen's mother randomly told her what was up. She was fishing for information as well. But to say that Amelia ain't shit because she's just her sister in law is fucked up.

I don't particularly care for Amelia, but I fully agree with the first part of this at least. The fact that Meredith pulled the plug on Derek without so much as notifying the rest of his family, let alone waiting for them, is simply not OK. I understand that she was in shock and grieving and not thinking straight, so if she'd still done that but later acknowledged that she erred and apologized, it would be a lot more OK. But she hasn't acknowledged anything of the sort, and acts as if Amelia doesn't really even have a right to grief over Derek, let alone the level of grief that she is. It's been, what a year and half-ish since he died now? I'm not saying that she needs to be completely over it and all healed or anything, but she should have enough distance by now to recognize that she's not the only person who lost Derek.

 

All that said, I don't really have a problem with Meredith telling Amelia that she's not her sister. It's great when in-laws mesh well enough to really become family (I definitely cried at my brother's toast at my wedding, where he said that he grew up with only sisters, but now he had two brothers (my sister had married a few years before)), but it doesn't always happen. Sometimes when you take one half of a couple out of the equation, there simply isn't a relationship left between the other half and the gone half's family. That's just reality. Amelia thinks (and who knows; maybe she's right) that Meredith hates her because she reminds her of Derek, and likes having Penny around because she can take out her Derek angst on her, but I would submit that Amelia clings to what little relationship she has with Meredith because she's a connection to Derek. They don't really have a relationship beyond that. They're not really sisters.

 

Jo and Alex?  I hope she says no.  He needs to find out that he 'needs' her.  He hasn't yet and nothing will change until he realizes this.  

Agreed. I still like them together, at least sometimes, but he has to understand and acknowledge that his friends treat her like crap and that that's not OK. The problem is I think he would agree that his friends should treat his partner decently, but for some reason, he simply can't see that they don't. He just thinks she's overreacting (and sometimes she is, but by this point, she's no longer just reacting to any one isolated incident; she's reacting to the patterns established for years now) and that there's no problem. Which is itself a huge problem. Both because he should be able to see it (it's not subtle) and because even if it were all hidden from him, he shouldn't be so dismissive of what she says about it. If he really loves and respects her, he should trust that there's some validity to what she says, regardless of whether or not he sees it. I want them to work it out, but this is an issue that must be dealt with.

 

I am a horrible person but didn't that guy on the table seem a little, um, "studly" to be Debra Mooney's boyfriend?

We met him last season (I think. Maybe the season before.), and the whole point of that episode was that yep, Mom's dating a much younger, studly dude. Owen was not OK with it for most of the episode, but made some steps at the end, and I guess has now accepted it. Nice to see they're still together, really. Although I thought I remembered him being a paramedic, rather than a firefighter.

[Gladrags]

trying to pull Riggs off of a surgery that he's literally in the middle of just because he's Riggs

That makes me wonder if Riggs didn't somehow operate on Owen's sister in an emergency and she died during or after surgery?

 

Or, maybe Owen is just a nut case after all. His mother seems to have moved on from whatever horrific indiscretion Riggs is guilty of.

[Chicken Wing]

That makes me wonder if Riggs didn't somehow operate on Owen's sister in an emergency and she died during or after surgery?

 

I feel like that's not a big enough "crime" for Owen to be acting this way. (That's basically why Meredith hates Penny, and she isn't justified there, either.) The way Owen is acting, Riggs may well have literally murdered his sister.

[Joana]

Owen didn't really confide much in Meredith. He told her he didn't want to talk about it. She then went to his mother and confronted him about having a sister. He may talk to her know that she found out but its not like he went to her. 

 

 

I agree, but that's how Amelia must have seen it. "He doesn't trust me enough to let me in on what's bothering him, but he has no problem telling it to Meredith, and who exactly is she to him??!" It sure would make me question myself where my relationship is going. 

And when you add in the fact that she feels that Meredith has already shut her out when Derek was dying, yeah, a freakout is coming.

 

I find it bizarre that during the past 1.5 years after Amelia losing her brother that Owen never told her that he lost a sister (if that is what happened).

 

 

 

It makes me wonder if Cristina knew about it and whether she'd say something to Meredith, them being so close and all. 

Honestly, it's probably something they randomly made up along the way. 

[Qoass]

Thanks, kingshearte, I'd completely forgotten that.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Qoass

[CED9]

I find it bizarre that during the past 1.5 years after Amelia losing her brother that Owen never told her that he lost a sister (if that is what happened).

Let's have Meredith, Amelia, Arizona and (possibly) Owen sit around discussing their dead siblings. Or, you know...come up with a different backstory. Oy, show.

[Joana]

Riggs' arrival is actually worse than Perfect Penny coming to a hospital where her "victim" worked. I mean, the last time she spoke to his wife she seemed understanding and forgiving, to PP could have thought/hoped that her working there wouldn't be that huge an issue. 

On the other hand, Riggs must know that Owen hasn't moved on, whatever it is that happened. 

[Greysaddict]

at first I thought this was a really boring finale, but then the more I thought about it it was nice to not have a major catastrophe (for the doctors).  Count me in as one who was waiting for something to explode when Meredith and Owen were talking.  It was nice to see most of the characters actually working and doctoring for once this season.  

 

I love Alex, like Jo (well the old Jo- can she come back please) and like them together but I am not sure where I want this story to go for them.  Alex has been pushing Jo's feelings aside for the two past years and he really needs a wake up call.  I don't expect him to stick his neck out for her at the hospital because she needs to earn that herself, but to his friends and Meredith especially he needs to start defending Jo and not letting Meredith treat her like dirt.  As Chicken Wing mentioned, even George stood up for Callie after dating her for like 3 episodes.  So, I don't want Jo to say yes to the proposal before Alex starts making her a priority but I am also not sure where it leaves them if she says no.  He's already proposed twice and if she turns him down again I don't see how the relationship moves forward at all.  

 

I really like funny, slightly awkward Arizona, but is there some unwritten rule where only one of Callie/Arizona can be likable at a time?  Callie has been insufferable to me pretty much all season.  

 

I honestly don't care one bit about Owen and Riggs thing.  They are both being asses and it makes me uninterested.  Owen having a dead sister is so so contrived that I can't even muster up sympathy for him.  As others mentioned, how would that never come up with Amelia having just lost her brother (and Cristina also lost her father young so I'm sure they could have connected with that as well).  I never even considered the transgender thing funny how people see things so differently.  I guess people have come to expect something jaw dropping from GA and there was really nothing that shocking in this episode.  

 

And Amelia, I feel for her I really do.  I get that her shouting at Meredith had everything to do with Owen shutting her out and feeling insecure about their relationship but part of me hopes she does hookup with Riggs and there is a Owen/Amelia/Riggs triangle so I can fast forward through parts of the next episodes. I actually really want to like Amelia and we are all partially explaining her behavior as being upset that Meredith didn't call her when Derek was dying/dead but why can't the show explore that more?  There was like one tearful line (was that last season?) of Amelia saying she could have saved him.  But if you want to explore some conflict with Mer/Amelia I would be more interested in that than the crap we get now.   

[Joana]

 I actually really want to like Amelia and we are all partially explaining her behavior as being upset that Meredith didn't call her when Derek was dying/dead but why can't the show explore that more?  There was like one tearful line (was that last season?) of Amelia saying she could have saved him.  But if you want to explore some conflict with Mer/Amelia I would be more interested in that than the crap we get now.   

 

I know! It's so annoying, It's something that would actually make sense and it's right there, it just needs to be expolored. 

Instead they decide to give Owen a dead sister out of blue and bring in two additional characters who have very little reason to be there in the first place. 

[Primetimer]

Turns out, Owen has one. Or...had one. Meanwhile, Meredith revokes sister-status from Amelia, sending the latter on one mother of a bender (probably).

Read the story

[Greysaddict]

 

I am on the fence about Riggs.  What is with people showing up at the hospital knowing that some people really don't want them there (Penny, Riggs, Amelia)?    

 

 

Yes yes yes!  I actually fully agree with your entire post Deanie87 but specifically this.  I get that we need some contrivance for the DRAMA, but really?  Riggs clearly knew he and Owen weren't "good" so why would he think it was going to be fine for him to just stroll in and accept a job there.  

 

 

As much as I loathe to agree with Amelia about anything, or even spend time discussing her, Meredith has been pretty awful this season.  Its not so much what she is doing, its just the cold and dismissive way she is treating everyone, friends and enemies alike.  I get that she is grieving still and I am sure that in her mind she is the only adult at the hospital (HA) and has so much more responsibility and tragedy than anyone else on the planet, but her attitude isn't fun to watch and hasn't been for awhile.  With all that she has been through, it should be very easy to root for her, but it just isn't.

I am a hard-core Meredith defender, but they have been writing her like this since mid last season.  It really comes to head in the episode where Japril's baby is born.  IMO, this a writer thing, not a character thing and I don't get what they are doing with the character in this respect at all.  

[Qoass]

The problem with Riggs is he's coming off as a jerk in ways that have nothing to do with Owen.  This is the second episode in a row in which he plowed in on another (female) doctor's case and took over.  I want to punch him in the face too.

[esco1822]

Yes yes yes!  I actually fully agree with your entire post Deanie87 but specifically this.  I get that we need some contrivance for the DRAMA, but really?  Riggs clearly knew he and Owen weren't "good" so why would he think it was going to be fine for him to just stroll in and accept a job there.  

 

I am a hard-core Meredith defender, but they have been writing her like this since mid last season.  It really comes to head in the episode where Japril's baby is born.  IMO, this a writer thing, not a character thing and I don't get what they are doing with the character in this respect at all.  

What?  The writers are making someone do something totally uncharacteristic of what we know of them?  See Arizona.  At least twice. Character asasination is the specialty of this show's writers.   

[North]

My thoughts:

Callie- seems to be in character to me-she over shares, she steps up for people she cares about even though she should back off some times-I think a lot of the criticism for her comes down to her being with Penny right now-she's not going to win with some people simply for that reason

Arizona/Webber-while their scenes are cute-it is one of the least compelling storylines on the show-it's almost like it's there just because they need something for both to do-also no chemistry with the firefighter-I thought the firefighter was friendly, that's it

Japril-their conflict is boring

Jolex-say no Jo-there are issues galore here that need to be fixed before marrying

Amelia/Meredith/Owen/Riggs-a quartet of unlikeable people that made nothing about this story interesting

[Deanie87]

I am a hard-core Meredith defender, but they have been writing her like this since mid last season.  It really comes to head in the episode where Japril's baby is born.  IMO, this a writer thing, not a character thing and I don't get what they are doing with the character in this respect at all.  

 

I don't know what it is.  Part of it is the writing, of course.  But Meredith's (Ellen's?) demeanor is different too, and it has been since even before Derek died, even before Cristina left I think.  She, like all of the characters, has always been very self-centered, but she also used to have a great warmth about her that just isn't there anymore.  She seems stern and impatient with everyone and just generally devoid of any kind of humor.  Normally, I would say that this is a result of Derek's death, but it started before that and for some reason, it just doesn't explain it for me.  I don't mean to imply that Ellen is phoning it in or that Ellen is lacking warmth, but Meredith's actions are lacking some quality that was there before.  I'm sure that it is on purpose, either she is choosing as an actor to make those choices or she is being directed that way, but something is missing for me and I feel that whatever they are trying to get across about her isn't quite working for the way that they want it to.  I am not one to clamor for scenes with the kids, but it might be nice here just to see some of that warmth again.

 

Cross cracks me up and I would prefer more scenes with him and DeLuca than a quarter of the cast right now.  "I was scared."  Speaking of DeLuca, is he going to be shocked every time a patient dies?  I know he is an intern, but you would think that he would be prepared for it to happen every once and awhile.

[Lyndy]

Wow. Amelia is still as horrible on this show as she was on Private Practice, huh? Everything is all about her all the time. Meredith kicking her out was my favourite part of the show.

 

I think Jo would be more likeable if she would just kick Alex's sorry ass to the curb. He's not a good person. Never has been. I think he'd be an excellent drinking buddy but I can't imagine ever wanting to date him. 

[Chicken Wing]

Speaking of DeLuca, is he going to be shocked every time a patient dies?  I know he is an intern, but you would think that he would be prepared for it to happen every once and awhile.

 

It's not that the patient died, it's the fact that they had no choice but to stand by and let the man die. He's probably programmed into the mindset that as doctors they go above and beyond to save their patients at all costs. I think he was coming to terms with the reality that sometimes your job is to just do nothing, because there's nothing you can do. It unsettled him a little, I guess.

[Anela]

I assumed that Nathan was married to Owen's sister (which is why he could have called Owen's mom "ma") and that the sister passed away and Owen blames Nathan for her death (either he caused an accident or he made some sort of medical decision that resulted in her death).

I assumed this, as well. I also wondered if she'd had a baby with another man, put up for adoption (and taken to Australia). 

 

I'm fine with Amelia. I don't even know why she tries to have a relationship with Meredith. If I were Amelia, I would've told Meredith to fuck all the way off the minute she pulled the plug on my brother without waiting for his family. They're clearly just tolerating each other since Derek was the buffer, but Meredith is an asshole. She's going on as if Owen's mother randomly told her what was up. She was fishing for information as well. But to say that Amelia ain't shit because she's just her sister in law is fucked up.

This goes for me, as well. Meredith has been awful to her, and Jo, for as long as they've been there. Except for the "dancing it out" at the wedding back in May. I used to like Meredith, and wonder why so many people hated her, but I really don't like her anymore. 

I like Jo, as well, and understood her position completely. 

[ChicksDigScars]

Just like my current need to binge The West Wing, so I can remember how a REAL fake POTUS is supposed to act instead of Scandal's raging Horn Dog in Chief, leading the country with his peen, I find myself wondering how I can binge ER. It's not on Netflix. I need to see some not-so-contrived hospital drama....well, the episodes before the helicopter squashed poor Rocket Romano, anyway.

 

I'm on the "it's his brother-in-law who Owen blames for the death of his sister" train. I didn't even think of transgender. Not at all. 

 

And was the girlfriend of the extra crispy firefighter (apologies! tm Miranda Bailey) the same actress who was Rose Kelly back in the GH heydey? 

Edited November 20, 2015 by ChicksDigScars

[represent]

 

Secondly, Cristina did not ABANDON Meredith as Amelia said. She took a really great job offer that happens to be outside of Seattle. Being in another country doesn't make Cristina a shitty friend.

This shit was ALL I cared about from last night's episode.

 

I was like writer's don't fuck around with my beloved Cristina for Amelia. I haven't  hated Amelia at all, I've just been indifferent to her.

 

But I'm ready to feel for her what I felt for Izzie, complete and utter loathing, if you starting fucking around with Cristina for her benefit.

 

Don't even put Cristina's name in her mouth if you're going to rewrite history and have her speak complete untruths about a woman and a relationship Mer/Cris, that she knows nothing about. 

 

You can bring up Derek, that's her brother, but leave Cristina out of her screeching mouth.

 

Don't start that shit. If you want Meredith and Amelia to finally be close fine, wonderful, just do it without fucking around with Cristina.

 

I'm fine with Cristina NEVER being mentioned by any character least of all Amelia, who can't get shit right both the really bad and the great when it came to this character.

 

 

[Artymouse]

I can't forget that Amelia called Cristina mentally challenged or something along those lines when Amelia came to Seattle shortly after the shooting and Cristina was suffering from PTSD.

So in a turn of phrase these characters use a lot, Amelia doesn't get to have an opinion on Cristina or Mer and Cristina's friendship.

Is it too much to hope that Amelia gets blackout drunk with Riggs and wakes up in New Zealand, where she and Riggs took an impulsive drunken trip, and we never have to see her again? Or she's driven to murder Penny, gets sentenced to life in prison, and we never have to see either of them again.

[Sheenieb]

 

All that said, I don't really have a problem with Meredith telling Amelia that she's not her sister. It's great when in-laws mesh well enough to really become family (I definitely cried at my brother's toast at my wedding, where he said that he grew up with only sisters, but now he had two brothers (my sister had married a few years before)), but it doesn't always happen. Sometimes when you take one half of a couple out of the equation, there simply isn't a relationship left between the other half and the gone half's family. That's just reality. Amelia thinks (and who knows; maybe she's right) that Meredith hates her because she reminds her of Derek, and likes having Penny around because she can take out her Derek angst on her, but I would submit that Amelia clings to what little relationship she has with Meredith because she's a connection to Derek. They don't really have a relationship beyond that. They're not really sisters.

Oh, absolutely. They have a relationship of tolerance, not a sisterly bond. At least not on Meredith's side. I thought it was cold for Meredith to dismiss Amelia outright as Derek's sister. She didn't even bother to call her an in-law. Then she calls Amelia a child. Meanwhile, she's refusing to even talk to Riggs because Owen hates him. I'm like, girl, where is your self-awareness? You're straight up acting like a junior high school mean girl. Drake's "No New Friends" is pretty much your theme song, and you want to call someone else a child? Stop it.

 

What's bothering me the most about Meredith is her monopolizing Derek's loss. I didn't blame Amelia one bit for lashing out at her. She isn't the only one mourning. The pulling the plug issue is and should be a major point of contention between those two. Amelia should've moved out that house from then.

[Greysaddict]

I don't know what it is.  Part of it is the writing, of course.  But Meredith's (Ellen's?) demeanor is different too, and it has been since even before Derek died, even before Cristina left I think.  She, like all of the characters, has always been very self-centered, but she also used to have a great warmth about her that just isn't there anymore.  She seems stern and impatient with everyone and just generally devoid of any kind of humor.  Normally, I would say that this is a result of Derek's death, but it started before that and for some reason, it just doesn't explain it for me.  I don't mean to imply that Ellen is phoning it in or that Ellen is lacking warmth, but Meredith's actions are lacking some quality that was there before.  I'm sure that it is on purpose, either she is choosing as an actor to make those choices or she is being directed that way, but something is missing for me and I feel that whatever they are trying to get across about her isn't quite working for the way that they want it to.  I am not one to clamor for scenes with the kids, but it might be nice here just to see some of that warmth again.

 

This is all a really great point.  I've been personally blaming the writers for Meredith's personality transplant somewhere at end of S10/S11 but I think you are right that it could be partially due to Ellen's delivery.  Maybe as she got older and more comfortable as the "lead" she started bringing more of herself into the role given Mer a more harsher tone?  I don't mean that Ellen is a bitch or anything by this.  I completely agree though that Meredith has lost the warmth and I don't think its the "widow grey hollow shell" to quote Amelia (lol) because its been happening much before Derek died.  I also agree that something is missing.  Sometimes I see flashes of the old "Meredith" but generally she has been stern and impatient with everyone as you said.  

[represent]

 

This is all a really great point.  I've been personally blaming the writers for Meredith's personality transplant somewhere at end of S10/S11 but I think you are right that it could be partially due to Ellen's delivery.  Maybe as she got older and more comfortable as the "lead" she started bringing more of herself into the role given Mer a more harsher tone?  I don't mean that Ellen is a bitch or anything by this.  I completely agree though that Meredith has lost the warmth and I don't think its the "widow grey hollow shell" to quote Amelia (lol) because its been happening much before Derek died.  I also agree that something is missing.  Sometimes I see flashes of the old "Meredith" but generally she has been stern and impatient with everyone as you said.

 

 

 . 

 

I like this Meredith as long as her bitchiness wasn't directed at Cristina, I liked it. Bitchy Meredith is a lot more entertaining, rather than Meredith always the voice of reason and all things to all people. I tend to roll my eyes at that Meredith, I just can't take it after a while. I will admit that I see her as being very wrong where Penny is concerned, but that seems to have improved now. But Amelia, sorry, she's not all wrong. 

 

Anyway, maybe she never came back to the "softer" side of Meredith after Cristina questioned her "drive" during their final fight in season ten. Maybe that's when it all started to happen. If so, it works for me

 

I think she can still pull out the warmth when she feels it's greatly needed. She did it at the end of season eleven I think when she took both Maggie and Amelia by the hand at the end of the episode to dance out all their troubles. 

 

I think Amelia just needs too much coddling and hand holding that  Meredith does not have to give and I am not going to fault her for that. 

 

Whoever said in a post above that Amelia needs to be more pissed at Owen, I'm with you. But she can't tear into him because as stated he's on the verge of a complete melt down. So she's taking it out on Meredith and while Meredith might have owed her and her mom and siblings time to say goodbye to Derek before pulling the plug, she doesn't owe her anything with regard to Owen. 

[LisaM]

 

And was the girlfriend of the extra crispy firefighter (apologies! tm Miranda Bailey) the same actress who was Rose Kelly back in the GH heydey?

 

Yes

[represent]

 

And was the girlfriend of the extra crispy firefighter (apologies! tm Miranda Bailey) the same actress who was Rose Kelly back in the GH heydey?

OMG, that's where I know her from. At first I was like is that Deila from Ryan's Hope? No.

 

It surely wasn't Ruby, that actress is deceased I believe. 

 

But I was like this woman is definitely from a soap I use to watch. 

[Daisy]

I thought I was the only one.

I actually like Catherine, but I thought of Adele straight away when the Chief mentioned his wife. 

Me too. 

I was like, but Adele's dead, Chief. 

[DearEvette]

Don't even put Cristina's name in her mouth if you're going to rewrite history and have her speak complete untruths about a woman and a relationship Mer/Cris, that she knows nothing about.

 

Ha!  I know right?

 

I loved Meredith in that Mer/Amelia discussion because I felt that Amelia just came off as totally irrational while Meredith was very measured and completely DONE with Amelia's rant.  But the shit about Christina was just over the top.  Really, you don't try to advocate for your own relationship with someone by tearing down another close relationship they have.  Even if i didn't love Christina this would be a super shitty thing for her to say.  You don't callously and erroneously dismiss a long term, close relationship like that because your feelings are hurt.

 

Somehow I don't think the underlying issues between Jo and Alex are gonna go away just because they are engaged.  But she seemed happy for a little bit.  And even though I am no Jo fan I am glad she and Steph have made up.

 

It feels like they are allowing Maggie to calm down a bit.  I am in the minority in that I like neurotic Maggie, but I do like that they've dialed her down a bit.  And she and DeLuca have some real nice sexy chemistry.

 

I love how everyone was gossiping about what was going on with Riggs and Owen and had different theories. 

 

Also liking how they seem to have dialed back on Meredith's animosity toward Penny and is allowing her to just work.  I hope that there'll always be that little tension there between them for as long as Penny is here but I don't want the show to wallow in it and hit us on the head like they have. I do like how she basically knows what side her bread is buttered on and completely sides with Meredith on everything.

 

I think Riggs is hot but damn if he isn't coming off as a major asshole, especially in his interactions with Meredith and Maggie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're a hotshot field surgeon who can do a heart transplant with some duct tape and a ball point pen, but dude stop it with your aggressive dismissal of women.  Although I did appreciate him telling Owen that he answers only to Maggie and not to him. 

 

God please Jackson, divorce her!

[Litnit]

I know this is a ridiculous question in the context of this show, but are doctors even allowed to date their patients?  I spent the whole time Arizona was interacting with her wondering this.

 

Jo, please say no.  It will not get better.  If your fiance cannot get his shit together to propose to you without this "Meredith is holding the ring" silliness, move on.  Part of my frustration with the time jumps on this show is that we are meant to believe these people (Jo and Alex, Amelia and Owen) have been stuck in these relationships for years seemingly without development.  Yes, Jo and Alex moved in together, but I agree with her assessment that she had to pull him out of there.  I thought all of her points during their convo in the patient's room were valid.  At some point a SO has to become the priority.  Not the only part of somebody's life, but the most important part.  

 

As for Amelia and Owen, how long has whatever they are been going on?  I'm not a huge fan of Amelia, but I don't think it's too much for her to ask for a bit of info about what is obviously bothering him.  I hope the gin and tonic is a one off or a red herring.

[WhosThatGirl]

Amelia  is horrible. I liked her much better on PP, and that's not really saying a lot. But she also seemed to have some of the same issues that she has with Meredith- "I'm YOUR SISTER!"- with Addison. If my memory is correct. The thing is, Christina is Mer's sister. Also I think the use of "sister" really sends Mer's spiraling at times, due to the fact that by the time she and her sister Lexie finally got close, Lexie was killed. I doubt she will ever get as close to Maggie as she was at the end with Lexie. And Amelia really does need to shut up and take a seat, like everyone has said. Meredith's first priority should never be finding a new boyfriend. I can just imagine if she had, Amelia would have gone nuts over that.  Also, I can't forget the finale last season when Amelia freaked out at Mer because when Meredith was dealing with her husband being dead and all, she didn't call Amelia to come to the hospital. Like.. SHUT UP, Amelia. Ugh. 

[java23]

I kept having flashbacks during all those Owen scenes... 

Especially shaking my head over Owen's yelling at Riggs over his Mom being HIS family and Not Riggs...you know the mother he didn't even visit for ages when he came back from Iraq?

Now he's a model son.

Also, Riggs taking the stake out of the firefighter reminded me of the icicle stuck in Cristina's stomach removed by Owen.

And then I was totally disgusted how Owen self-righteously is somehow upset at Riggs being a bad little doctor. Was he responsible for hurting his sister? If it was Rigg's wife, he has more say than a brother.

who knows, but I still wonder why Owen never got fired for sticking the whole staff on the below standard plane where people died.

Owen is the worst doctor, son and husband ever who shouldn't be judging anyone.

Edited November 21, 2015 by java23